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Gods:
King Thor
Loki
Athena
Gaea(marvel)
Cronus(god wave)
Ares(DC)
Odin
Zeus(marvel)
Zeus(DC)
Hela
Rune King Thor

Heralds of Galactus:
Morg with WOL
Nova(Frankie)
Silver Surfer
Firelord
Air-Walker
Asgardian Destroyer
Superman
Fallen One
Red Shift
Terrax the Tamer

Plus Jean Grey as Dark Phoenix

Vs.

The might of Imperiex and Tyrant

And I thought i made convoluted thread....

How is this convoluted? Who wins IYO?

If there are more characters in a thread than the number of finger you have it is convoluted

Yea I know that. Just pick a team.

Most of the people in this thread dont do shit towards the outcome really but I would have to give it to team 2

way 2 many people here.

Tyrant solos. Imperiex stomps.

Imperiex automaticlly amps DC Ares to far above skyfather levels, to the point he had enough power to conquor the universe

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r120/Tedirey/Ares/WW177-6.jpg

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
Imperiex automaticlly amps DC Ares to far above skyfather levels, to the point he had enough power to conquor the universe

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r120/Tedirey/Ares/WW177-6.jpg Wrong please stop posting things you dont know about

Team 2 easily.

Dark phoenix alone can beat Tyrant.

imperiex prime is a universes buster, none of the team 2 can cause any threat to him. full power tyrant is still at least on starving galactus level. dark phoenix can only consume star, imperiex prime consume universe, imperiex stomp her along with heralds by projecting a energy blast that is powerful enough to destroy galaxies. then both of team 1 clean house the gods

Originally posted by iceman24567
Wrong please stop posting things you dont know about thats wrong, read the scan please

Originally posted by MrMind
imperiex prime is a universes buster, none of the team 2 can cause any threat to him. except that he directly amps ares to a universe buster

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
except that he directly amps ares to a universe buster No

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Team 2 easily.

Dark phoenix alone can beat Tyrant.

no she can't. tyrant would whoop her ass.

Originally posted by SuperMan103
no she can't. tyrant would whoop her ass. She whooped galactus's ass and tyrant and galactus are roughly equal.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
She whooped galactus's ass and tyrant and galactus are roughly equal.

And I liked the time Captain America beat the shit out of Living Tribunal.

Edit: In case you didn't get my point; Dark Phoenix has never fought Galactus. You made that up as I just made up the non-existent fight between the Living Tribunal and Captain America in which Cap gave LT the beating of his life.

Originally posted by iceman24567
No Yes. read the scan

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
Yes. read the scan I read it and you are wrong

Did someone say Full-Powered Tyrant was equal to a staving Galactus... WTF?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Did someone say Full-Powered Tyrant was equal to a staving Galactus... WTF?
"at least" on starving galactus level, so based on their fight, I say tyrant is at least above 30% galactus, closer to 50% maybe?

Originally posted by TheTyrant
And I liked the time Captain America beat the shit out of Living Tribunal.

Edit: In case you didn't get my point; Dark Phoenix has never fought Galactus. You made that up as I just made up the non-existent fight between the Living Tribunal and Captain America in which Cap gave LT the beating of his life. You haven't seen the scan where DP has galactus beaten and almost dying on the sun?

Originally posted by Black bolt z
You haven't seen the scan where DP has galactus beaten I thought that was rachel grey

Originally posted by Black bolt z
You haven't seen the scan where DP has galactus beaten and almost dying on the sun?

That's not Dark Phoenix. That's the entire Phoenix Force. And there was no sun during that fight either, so I don't know what the hell you're talking about. You probably made that up too.

Originally posted by MrMind
"at least" on starving galactus level, so based on their fight, I say tyrant is at least above 30% galactus, closer to 50% maybe?

Well if a Full-Powered Tyrant fought with Galactus for thousands of years until Galactus finally won.... and Dp Tyrant.. fought a well-fed Galactus and had him beat... What would that number look like? I have no clue.. but know.. even DP Tyrant is beyond a 50% Galactus let alone a full powered one.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
That's not Dark Phoenix. That's the entire Phoenix Force. And there was no sun during that fight either, so I don't know what the hell you're talking about. You probably made that up too. Every time someone has posted that scan they have said that was Dark phoenix.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Every time someone has posted that scan they have said that was Dark phoenix.

It wasn't, it was Rachel Grey and she's noob trash.

Compare her fight with Galactus (even if she was controlled by the PF) vs her fight with Necrom.

Necrom with only a sliver of the PF destroyed an entire solar system effortlessly.

DP got nothing on imperiex prime, one consume star, the other consume universe. this fight seems pretty clear up to me

Originally posted by MrMind
DP got nothing on imperiex prime, one consume star, the other consume universe. this fight seems pretty clear up to me

You're comparing feats bu DP from the 70s vs Imperiex from the late 90s?

How is that fair?

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Every time someone has posted that scan they have said that was Dark phoenix.

Then those people are clearly wrong. The fight was in an Excalibur comic, but I don't remember what issue number it was exactly.

Originally posted by zopzop
You're comparing feats bu DP from the 70s vs Imperiex from the late 90s?

How is that fair?
Imperiex prime only appeared in our worlds at war, DP has way more appearances and feats than imperiex prime. you can name all the feats DP had, yet none of the feats come close to imperiex prime destroy /recreate universe or containing big bang. so the only conclusion I can come to is that imperiex prime is on a much bigger scale,
plus DP doesn't have the durability to take imperiex prime galaxy busting attacks whatsoever

the rachel summers vs galactus fight happened in Excalibur v1 #61

Originally posted by MrMind
Imperiex prime only appeared in our worlds at war, DP has way more appearances and feats than imperiex prime. you can name all the feats DP had, yet none of the feats come close to imperiex prime destroy /recreate universe or containing big bang. so the only conclusion I can come to is that imperiex prime is on a much bigger scale,
plus DP doesn't have the durability to take imperiex prime galaxy busting attacks whatsoever

Imperiex appeared in Summer 2001, DP last appearance was in 1980. Over twenty years separate them. The way feat inflation has accelerated between those years is ridiculous. So comparing feats is unfair to DP.

Originally posted by zopzop
Imperiex appeared in Summer 2001, DP last appearance was in 1980. Over twenty years separate them. The way feat inflation has accelerated between those years is ridiculous. So comparing feats is unfair to DP.
really some of the craziest feats are back in the 70's and 80's, for example two of the most popular character thor and superman. hell some of the crazy feats from both dc and marvel are decades ago. cosmic beings like beyonder, galactus or anti-monitor etc all have their best feats back in the 80s. the feats haven't been exaggerated at all over the time. maybe dark phoenix is just not that impressive

accidentally posted twice

Originally posted by MrMind
really some of the craziest feats are back in the 70's and 80's, for example two of the most popular character thor and superman. hell some of the crazy feats from both dc and marvel are decades ago. cosmic beings like beyonder, galactus or anti-monitor etc all have their best feats back in the 80s. the feats haven't been exaggerated at all over the time. maybe dark phoenix is just not that impressive

It depends. Pre Crisis DC feats are insane I'll give you that, but Marvel is a whole other story.

The Celestials which are supposedly above the Skyfathers don't have feats anywhere near as impressive as Odin does. Yet, Odin/Zeus/Vishnu knelt before Arshiem.

When Dark Phoenix rose, every adept on the planet felt it. Reed commented it's power rivaled that of Galactus (and this was at a time when it was weak and needed sustenance, that's why it ate the star AFTER making it go nova).

The Watcher commented that it was a Primal Force second only to the Creator himself.

So apparently more than a few people thought it was impressive, but comparing feats from Marvel characters from the late 70s early 80s with characters from DC in 2001 still isn't fair (feat inflation and all).

Originally posted by zopzop
The Celestials which are supposedly above the Skyfathers don't have feats anywhere near as impressive as Odin does. Yet, Odin/Zeus/Vishnu knelt before Arshiem.
Likely because even their combined powers melded into one blast didn't even phase Arishem:
http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/4707/thor30016.jpg

Originally posted by Galan007
Likely because even their combined powers melded into one blast didn't even phase Arishem:
http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/4707/thor30016.jpg

Thank you for the scan but I'm aware of that, I have the issue. Yet for all the drama, no Celestial has feats approaching Odin in scale.

Scope-wise? I agree.

That doesn't mean they aren't more powerful, though (as I'm sure you'd agree.)

Pretty sad that Thor can damage Celestials, even bust a hole in the more powerful Exitar (Granted with the belt of strength but still) when three Skyfathers can't.

He was a good writer, but Thomas watered down the Gods (Specifically Odin) and f*cked with their history so much it was just ridiculous. He sold the Gods out to the Celestial's like whores.

Originally posted by Galan007
Scope-wise? I agree.

That doesn't mean they aren't more powerful, though (as I'm sure you'd agree.)

It's sort of hard to say. That fight took place like what, 20-30 years ago? A lot has changed. Like Rage said, Thor has busted their armor, crushed their skull, a sliver of the Phoenix Force back by the power of a world (?) of mutants blew off Arshiem's Hand of Judgement, etc...

So THREE Skyfathers being unable to phase Arshiem is PIS. Also worth noting that those THREE skyfathers could only marshal enough power to "knock a world off it's orbit"? More PIS. Odin was busting galaxies at the time by himself. Adding in Zeus and Vishnu and all they could do is "knock a world from it's orbit"? Not buying it.

Originally posted by zopzop
It's sort of hard to say. That fight took place like what, 20-30 years ago? A lot has changed. Like Rage said, Thor has busted their armor, crushed their skull, a sliver of the Phoenix Force back by the power of a world (?) of mutants blew off Arshiem's Hand of Judgement, etc...

So THREE Skyfathers being unable to phase Arshiem is PIS. Also worth noting that those THREE skyfathers could only marshal enough power to "knock a world off it's orbit"? More PIS. Odin was busting galaxies at the time by himself. Adding in Zeus and Vishnu and all they could do is "knock a world from it's orbit"? Not buying it.

Who are to say that it wasn't PIS that Thor could break a hole in Exitars armor, when his God Blast combined with the magnetic field on the planet couldn't even dent Arishem armor?

Don't mind him guys... he just claims PIS if he doesn't like the story or how it went. He also believes that Odin and Seth have greater feats than the LT and those showed more canon power.. as if that is true.. or even means a thing. Prime and Tyrant.. roll these guys into a joint and smokes em

Originally posted by Utrigita
Who are to say that it wasn't PIS that Thor could break a hole in Exitars armor, when his God Blast combined with the magnetic field on the planet couldn't even dent Arishem armor?

What are you talking about, Thor never attacked Arshiem with a God Blast? Thor's God Blast crushed Exitar's skull which was made of even sturdier material than his shell!

So on panel : Full strength blow from Mjolnir > planet's magnetic field. Live with it.


@KuRuPT Thanosi

What was the LT's highest on panel showing of power? Don't come at me with "implied" garbage, I want on panel evidence.

It has been shown to you before Zop.. I'm not going through it again buddy. You can believe what you want.. but rest assured Odin and Seth are mere insects to the LT... with but a thought.. not even a gesture.. they would be wiped from existence.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
It has been shown to you before Zop.. I'm not going through it again buddy. You can believe what you want.. but rest assured Odin and Seth are mere insects to the LT... with but a thought.. not even a gesture.. they would be wiped from existence.

Yeah, keep bringing it up then running away when I ask for evidence. How kind of you.

It's just too bad those "mere insects" on panel power output dwarfs the LT.

Originally posted by zopzop
It depends. Pre Crisis DC feats are insane I'll give you that, but Marvel is a whole other story.

The Celestials which are supposedly above the Skyfathers don't have feats anywhere near as impressive as Odin does. Yet, Odin/Zeus/Vishnu knelt before Arshiem.

When Dark Phoenix rose, every adept on the planet felt it. Reed commented it's power rivaled that of Galactus (and this was at a time when it was weak and needed sustenance, that's why it ate the star AFTER making it go nova).

The Watcher commented that it was a Primal Force second only to the Creator himself.

So apparently more than a few people thought it was impressive, but comparing feats from Marvel characters from the late 70s early 80s with characters from DC in 2001 still isn't fair (feat inflation and all).
feats haven't been exaggerated or inflate at all. some of the most powerful beings in marvel have been established in 80s and 90s. thanos with infinity gauntlet, beyonder in secreat wars, MJJ in crooked world.
it's fair because when we compare characters from dc and marvel we compare by their showings. not their tier in their own company.

what makes you think dark phoenix has any chance of surviving imperiex prime galaxy busting attack when a Shi'ar laser cannon can take her down.

Originally posted by MrMind
feats haven't been exaggerated or inflate at all. some of the most powerful beings in marvel have been established in 80s and 90s. thanos with infinity gauntlet, beyonder in secreat wars, MJJ in crooked world.
it's fair because when we compare characters from dc and marvel we compare by their showings. not their tier in their own company.

The Beyonder has been retconned so many times it's not even funny. Bringing him up is not helping your argument at all. The IG wasn't some fly by night cosmic, it was meant to be the most powerful artifact EVER at the time. MJJ ultimately only warped the UK no? If I recall correctly he had to be stopped before his power grew.



During the DP storyline, it only lost when it wanted to. It was even stated on panel. It's loss vs Magneto was because it setup "psionic circuit breakers" to cut itself off from it's power as a precaution. It's fight with Prof. X, Prof. X commented on panel how he would have lost had Jean not fought herself.

It died by a Shi'ar canon because it wanted to kill itself.

And if the best Imperiex can do is bust a galaxy, he's just barely in Odin's league.

Originally posted by zopzop
The Beyonder has been retconned so many times it's not even funny. Bringing him up is not helping your argument at all. The IG wasn't some fly by night cosmic, it was meant to be the most powerful artifact EVER at the time. MJJ ultimately only warped the UK no? If I recall correctly he had to be stopped before his power grew.

that's why I was talking about pre-retcon beyonder in secret wars. It helped me make my case because what beyonder did in secret wars proved feats in nowadays isn't more impressive than 80's at all. and just like I said what MJJ and IG did back in the day are still hard to surpass by characters nowadays.



still DP got destroyed. my point is there's no prove DP has high durability. characters like Galactus has powerful offensive attack along with high durability shown on panel. DP doesn't. unless you show high durability feats from dark phoenix you got no prove she can survive imperiex attack. and I do mean something more impressive than taking hits from colossus and gladiator


the best imperiex can do is bust a universe. but I doubt DP can survive galaxy busting attack whatsoever.

Originally posted by MrMind
that's why I was talking about pre-retcon beyonder in secret wars. It helped me make my case because what beyonder did in secret wars proved feats in nowadays isn't more impressive than 80's at all.

No, it doesn't help your cause because he showed up around 84-86 and got retconned a year or so later!



The worse MJJ did on panel was warp an area the size of the UK! The IG story arc took place more than a DECADE after the DP Saga. So that's a long time for feat inflation to take place. Irony of ironies, the Gems have been retconned into a) only working in the universe they are native to and b) deriving their power from the Big Bang which Richard's equated with the PF!





You mean how it was wanting to kill itself?! If the Infinity Being can commit suicide, why can't DP?




How would Imperiex bust a universe? Through sheer power output or by destroying the Earth or something and hence causing a chain reaction that destroys the universe. Because the level of power required to do those things varies VASTLY. Ps what was Imperiex's highest on panel feat? You know the guy that came 20+ years after DP was long dead?

Originally posted by zopzop
Yeah, keep bringing it up then running away when I ask for evidence. How kind of you.

It's just too bad those "mere insects" on panel power output dwarfs the LT.

Rage would you please show your boy here the light? Please

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Rage would you please show your boy here the light? Please

I'll explain this slowly so you can understand it :

ON PANEL - Odin and Seth (among others) have greater showings of power than the LT.

IMPLIED POWER - the LT > Odin/Seth, others, etc...

Do you understand now? So unless you got something ON PANEL, you need to stfu and leave me alone.

Originally posted by zopzop
No, it doesn't help your cause because he showed up around 84-86 and got retconned a year or so later!

it got retconned because beyonder was too powerful, so nothing beyonder does after the secret wars come close. that means almost none of the characters these days can surpass what beyonder did in secret wars. so you saying characters these days in marvel have more impressive feats is not true.


what about the fight with fury? it's in universal scale at least.


what does retcon have anything to do with this? I really think it's stupid to say I can't compare the showings of the two characters because one of the character appeared decades ago. what kind of logic is that? even if marvel characters don't have impressive showings back then take it up with marvel. this is battle thread if we don't go by characters showing I don't know what else I could go by.




so agian I asked where's the phoenix durability feats? where's the prove that she can take imperiex attack?



by sheer power alone.
and you want imperiex showings look up in the respect thread
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t520501.html

Originally posted by zopzop
It's sort of hard to say. That fight took place like what, 20-30 years ago? A lot has changed. Like Rage said, Thor has busted their armor, crushed their skull, a sliver of the Phoenix Force back by the power of a world (?) of mutants blew off Arshiem's Hand of Judgement, etc...

So THREE Skyfathers being unable to phase Arshiem is PIS. Also worth noting that those THREE skyfathers could only marshal enough power to "knock a world off it's orbit"? More PIS. Odin was busting galaxies at the time by himself. Adding in Zeus and Vishnu and all they could do is "knock a world from it's orbit"? Not buying it. Personally I think Thor being able to harm a Celestial literally defines PIS. I mean even a no name Celestial is supposed to possess power infinitely superior to that of Kubik. That said, no Skyfather, or even group of Skyfathers, should even register as a blip on a Celestial's radar, imo (as blatantly shown in the scan I posted) -- yet Thor can damage one all by himself? C'mon.

Hell, even when Odin dawned the Asgard-empowered super Destroyer armor to combat the Celestials, his amped disintegrator beam was *casually* blocked by Nezarr. I wouldn't think Thor's GB is more powerful than that, but whatevs... /shrug

Originally posted by MrMind
it got retconned because beyonder was too powerful, so nothing beyonder does after the secret wars come close. that means almost none of the characters these days can surpass what beyonder did in secret wars. so you saying characters these days in marvel have more impressive feats is not true.

It is true because the writers basically undid everything during the Secret Wars arc about a year later! They wasted no time retconning those feats into oblivion.




Was it? I thought it was just him morphing himself faster than MJJ could affect him with his reality warping powers. Not exactly universal.




It's stupid because DECADES of time passed. That's like someone bringing up Hulk from 1980 vs 2000 Thor and comparing feats.





It dove into a universe devouring black hole and with help contained it.





The best I see is galaxy busting. I want to know how exactly he'd destroy a universe. Busting galaxies != universe destruction.

Originally posted by Galan007
Personally I think Thor being able to harm a Celestial literally defines PIS. I mean even a no name Celestial is supposed to possess power infinitely superior to that of Kubik. That said, no Skyfather, or even group of Skyfathers, should even register as a blip on a Celestial's radar, imo (as blatantly shown in the scan I posted) -- yet Thor can damage one all by himself? C'mon.

But it's right there on panel! It hasn't been retconned or explained away so Thor's showing vs the Celestials still is valid.



Yup, and in that very issue, the Celestials could NOT put down Thor. They blasted him repeatedly and he still got up and and hurled the Odin Sword at Arshiem. These guys just got through slagging the Destroyer and one-shotting the Uni-mind and they couldn't put Thor down. Sure toward the end, he was overwhelmed and about to get crushed (?) by Arshiem but still....

Originally posted by zopzop
But it's right there on panel! It hasn't been retconned or explained away so Thor's showing vs the Celestials still is valid.



Yup, and in that very issue, the Celestials could NOT put down Thor. They blasted him repeatedly and he still got up and and hurled the Odin Sword at Arshiem. These guys just got through slagging the Destroyer and one-shotting the Uni-mind and they couldn't put Thor down. Sure toward the end, he was overwhelmed and about to get crushed (?) by Arshiem but still.... Not denying whether or not it happened on panel, but surely you can see why it might be construed as PIS. First Arishiem tanks a blast containing the power of three Skyfathers, then Odin dawns the Asgard-empowered Destroyer armor and gets completely dominated, then Thor harms a Celestial... By himself? A bit PISsy, imo.

Originally posted by Galan007
Not denying whether or not it happened on panel, but surely you can see why it might be construed as PIS. First Arishiem tanks a blast containing the power of three Skyfathers, then Odin dawns the Asgard-empowered Destroyer armor and gets completely dominated, then Thor harms a Celestial... By himself? A bit PISsy, imo.

But it didn't quite happen as you describe. Thor never harmed any Celestial in Thor 300, sure he tanked their blasts like a champ, but he never hurt them.

About a decade later, Thor does indeed punch a hole in a Celestial's shell and then go on to shatter his skull.

Do we just dismiss it as PIS? No, it could be that the Skyfather's jobbed or had a low showing. It happens.

Because since that fight in Thor 300, the Celestials havent' been shown doing much, if anything impressive, while Odin went on to multiverse shaking heights. Hell before then Odin was a confirmed galaxy buster, a title no Celestial can lay claim to.

Originally posted by zopzop
But it didn't quite happen as you describe. Thor never harmed any Celestial in Thor 300, sure he tanked their blasts like a champ, but he never hurt them.

About a decade later, Thor does indeed punch a hole in a Celestial's shell and then go on to shatter his skull.

Do we just dismiss it as PIS? No, it could be that the Skyfather's jobbed or had a low showing. It happens.

Because since that fight in Thor 300, the Celestials havent' been shown doing much, if anything impressive, while Odin went on to multiverse shaking heights. Hell before then Odin was a confirmed galaxy buster, a title no Celestial can lay claim to. Wasn't saying that Thor harmed a Celestial in that specific issue -- just that he has in general.

Like I said, Odin's feats are better in terms of scope. However, he certainly isn't more powerful than a Celestial, overall.

---

Unrelated question: Does anyone know if there are alternate versions of Celestials, or are all of their showings canon for them?

Originally posted by Galan007


Ah, I see. Then it wasn't PIS. The SKyfathers had a low showing in Thor 300 is all.



We know this how?





In Exiles or something two Celestials needed help bringing down Ego! Sad. There are What If versions of Celestials too. I don't believe those showings are canon.

Originally posted by zopzop
Ah, I see. Then it wasn't PIS. The SKyfathers had a low showing in Thor 300 is all. iyo.

Originally posted by zopzop
We know this how? Because even after having his powers augmented by the Destroyer, he was still absolutely nothing in comparison?

Originally posted by zopzop
In Exiles or something two Celestials needed help bringing down Ego! Sad. There are What If versions of Celestials too. I don't believe those showings are canon. I'm curious if this has ever been confirmed.

Originally posted by Galan007
iyo.

Yeah, I mean ALL characters have low showings.




Uhm that was in the same issue! The skyfathers jobbed. Before that Odin was a confirmed galaxy buster, after that Odin is a confirmed multiverse shaker. Now what have the Celestials done since?



The only being that's been said to exist in all universes simultaneously is the LT. There are like one or two exceptions but I've never heard the Celestials being one of those exceptions.

Speaking of alternate reality showings, here they are getting owned by Ego :
http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/8492/0203l.th.jpg

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http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/1641/97105777.th.jpg

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http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/5228/80449380.th.jpg

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In 616 reality Thor and BRB did better vs Ego!

Originally posted by zopzop
Uhm that was in the same issue! The skyfathers jobbed. Their collective powers being rendered ineffective against a more powerful foe doesn't classify as jobbing. none

Originally posted by zopzop
Before that Odin was a confirmed galaxy buster, after that Odin is a confirmed multiverse shaker. Now what have the Celestials done since? ...And the 'galaxy buster/multiverse shaker' was absolutely nothing to the Celestials... Even with the Destroyer armor.

Let me guess, he was jobbing too, right? none


Originally posted by zopzop
Speaking of alternate reality showings, here they are getting owned by Ego :
http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/8492/0203l.th.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/1641/97105777.th.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/5228/80449380.th.jpg

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In 616 reality Thor and BRB did better vs Ego! Not sure why you posted these..?

I mean, if we are going to start posting feats from alternate realities, then I could post scans of the Celestials defeating the Goblin Force (something not even Phoenix or Galactus could do.) I could also post scans of the Celestials stalemating Doom (with the power of SW Beyonder AND the infinity gems) for hundreds of years..

none

Why waste your time man.

Originally posted by zopzop
Before that Odin was a confirmed galaxy buster, after that Odin is a confirmed multiverse shaker. Now what have the Celestials done since?
Can you quantify that for me?

And as for alternate versions of celestials, what about the what if where doom has the beyonders power and IG and it still took him like 500 years to beat them? Either Beyonders power and IG were downplayed or those versions of celestials are much stronger.

Originally posted by Galan007
Their collective powers being rendered ineffective against a more powerful foe doesn't classify as jobbing. none

...And the 'galaxy buster/multiverse' shaker was absolutely nothing to the Celestials... Even with the Destroyer armor.

Let me guess, he was jobbing too, right? none

All that happened in ONE ISSUE 20+ years ago. ONE ISSUE. Since then his showings dwarf theirs. Look at what Thor did to them around 1989-1990.

The Skyfathers jobbed in Thor 300 in 1980 whoop dee doo.




I thought you were asking for alternate reality showings for Celestials. My bad. But it does put it all in perspective, two Celesials couldn't put down Ego but Thor/BRB owned him.



I mean it only devastated their entire race and all. Nice showing by the Goblin Force.



Too bad they couldn't do it in 616 reality vs the IG or the HotI. And Doom still wound up wiping them from that universe.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Can you quantify that for me?

And as for alternate versions of celestials, what about the what if where doom has the beyonders power and IG and it still took him like 500 years to beat them? Either Beyonders power and IG were downplayed or those versions of celestials are much stronger.

A) It was a What If and their race isn't know to exist in all realities in a multiverse like the LT, so there's no point discussing it

B) The IG had a low showing. It's not like it hasn't happened before. Surfer blew the Gauntlet off Rune's hands!

But unlike the Celestials, the IG can be excused because of all it's excellent showings.

Originally posted by zopzop
All that happened in ONE ISSUE 20+ years ago. ONE ISSUE. Since then his showings dwarf theirs. Look at what Thor did to them around 1989-1990.

The Skyfathers jobbed in Thor 300 in 1980 whoop dee doo.

I thought you were asking for alternate reality showings for Celestials. My bad. But it does put it all in perspective, two Celesials couldn't put down Ego but Thor/BRB owned him.

I mean it only devastated their entire race and all. Nice showing by the Goblin Force.

Too bad they couldn't do it in 616 reality vs the IG or the HotI. And Doom still wound up wiping them from that universe. So you pretty much try to downplay anything/everything that doesn't suit your argument? Nice... Now I see what Kurupt was saying.

That will be all.

Originally posted by zopzop
A) It was a What If and their race isn't know to exist in all realities in a multiverse like the LT, so there's no point discussing it

B) The IG had a low showing. It's not like it hasn't happened before. Surfer blew the Gauntlet off Rune's hands!

But unlike the Celestials, the IG can be excused because of all it's excellent showings. So can you quantify shaking the multiverse for me into a combat feat?

Originally posted by Galan007
So you pretty much try to downplay anything/everything that doesn't suit your argument? Nice... Now I see what Kurupt was saying.

That will be all.

Don't run away. You know damn well what I'm trying to get at.

The only time the Skyfathers were humiliated by the Celestials was in Thor 300 and that was published in 1980. At no other time do we see them interacting with the Skyfathers.

In that issue, Thor 300, it took them repeated attacks to put down Thor. A decade later, Thor is shown being able to puncture their outer shell and even their skulls which according to Thor are made of even sturdier material than their shell.

Odin was busting galaxies BEFORE that encounter (Thor 300), yet him with two other high end skyfathers could only produce enough power to knock a world from its' orbit?

Then AFTER that fight, Odin still has galaxy busting feats/foes and goes on to affect all reality in one of his conflicts.

The Celestials haven't been shown doing anything of that magnitude. EVER.

So what can we conclude? The Skyfathers jobbed in that ONE issue in 1980.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
So can you quantify shaking the multiverse for me into a combat feat?

ON panel, you can even look it up in his respect thread, when Odin fought Seth :

Galaxies were quaking, long dead stars throughout the universe were re-igniting, the multiverse was shaking, and not one but THREE separate characters stated that ALL REALITY was in danger of dying!

Originally posted by zopzop
ON panel, you can even look it up in his respect thread, when Odin fought Seth :

Galaxies were quaking, long dead stars throughout the universe were re-igniting, the multiverse was shaking, and not one but THREE separate characters stated that ALL REALITY was in danger of dying! OK. Care to quantify that into a combat feat for me?

Originally posted by Black bolt z
OK. Care to quantify that into a combat feat for me?

How? The effects I mentioned where an indirect response to Odin and Seth throwing down. It's not like they were doing it on purpose.

They were operating on such a level and outputing so much power that the entire multiverse was affected and all reality was in danger of being destroyed.

Originally posted by zopzop
How? The effects I mentioned where an indirect response to Odin and Seth throwing down. It's not like they were doing it on purpose.

They were operating on such a level and outputing so much power that the entire multiverse was affected and all reality was in danger of being destroyed. Originally posted by Black bolt z
OK. Care to quantify that into a combat feat for me?

Originally posted by Black bolt z
OK. Care to quantify that into a combat feat for me?

How? The very fact that they were producing so much power as a result of their conflict that all reality was in danger speaks for itself. It's all right there on panel. So you can play dumb all you want.

For comparisons sake :

Surtur destroyed an entire galaxy to forge his sword. The ENTIRE cosmic pantheon couldn't produce that kind of power output when they fought Thanos with the IG (they only managed to slag the immediate solar system and "many" nearby ones). The Celestials only managed to hurl a few worlds at Thanos.

The IG war was contained to universe 616. Seth and Odin fighting shook the multiverse and threatened all reality.

Don't like? Call Marvel and beg for a retcon.

Originally posted by zopzop
How? The very fact that they were producing so much power as a result of their conflict that all reality was in danger speaks for itself. It's all right there on panel. So you can play dumb all you want.

For comparisons sake :

Surtur destroyed an entire galaxy to forge his sword. The ENTIRE cosmic pantheon couldn't produce that kind of power output when they fought Thanos with the IG (they only managed to slag the immediate solar system and "many" nearby ones). The Celestials only managed to hurl a few worlds at Thanos.

The IG war was contained to universe 616. Seth and Odin fighting shook the multiverse and threatened all reality.

Don't like? Call Marvel and beg for a retcon. So your using....collateral damage as proof that Odin is that powerful?

Ok by that logic spiderman>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>thor

You don't use collateral damage as an argument. You don't use shaking, you don't use re-igniting, you don't use threatening.

That all means Jack shit. COMBAT FEATS are what matter. Because there is no way to quantify all that other shit.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
So your using....collateral damage as proof that Odin is that powerful?

Ok by that logic spiderman>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>thor

You don't use collateral damage as an argument. You don't use shaking, you don't use re-igniting, you don't use threatening.

That all means Jack shit. COMBAT FEATS are what matter. Because there is no way to quantify all that other shit.

ON PANEL Odin is a galaxy buster, do you deny that? On panel no Celestial has destroyed a galaxy let alone shook the multiverse, do you deny that?

The Skyfathers jobbed in ONE issue of Thor 30 YEARS AGO! Before and since then Odin has greater displays of power than any Celestial, do you deny that?

How can you hold ONE example THIRTY YEARS ago against Odin I'll never understand. It's like picking a low showing of Superman and basing your whole arguments about his power level relative to another character based on that. It's dishonest and sad.

PS Spiderman >>>>>>Thor based on what?

Originally posted by zopzop
ON PANEL Odin is a galaxy buster, do you deny that? On panel no Celestial has destroyed a galaxy let alone shook the multiverse, do you deny that?

The Skyfathers jobbed in ONE issue of Thor 30 YEARS AGO! Before and since then Odin has greater displays of power than any Celestial, do you deny that?

How can you hold ONE example THIRTY YEARS ago against Odin I'll never understand. It's like picking a low showing of Superman and basing your whole arguments about his power level relative to another character based on that. It's dishonest and sad.

PS Spiderman >>>>>>Thor based on what? Two things
1: I never brought up a feat from 30 years ago as I don't even know what feat that is.
2: It doesn't matter if celestials have never busted a galaxy. What matters is COMBAT feats. One character against another. Not collateral damage.

For example: We know on panel Odin stomped thanos in a combat fight. That can be quantified. Busting a galaxy, shaking the multiverse, re-igniting dead stars can not.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Two things
1: I never brought up a feat from 30 years ago as I don't even know what feat that is.
2: It doesn't matter if celestials have never busted a galaxy. What matters is COMBAT feats. One character against another. Not collateral damage.

For example: We know on panel Odin stomped thanos in a combat fight. That can be quantified. Busting a galaxy, shaking the multiverse, re-igniting dead stars can not.

Those are displays of POWER OUTPUT. If Odin busts galaxies and his fights shake the multiverse and threaten all reality with destruction, it says a lot of about his personal power.

Many abstracts havent' been shown as capable of doing half the things Odin has.

Surtur by himself caused more collateral damage forging his sword than the combined might of Galactus/Eon/Stranger/Two Celestials/Kronos/Mistress Love/Sire Hate/Lord Order/Master Chaos simultaneously blasting Thanos!

There's nothing to debate because it's shown on panel.

I get what you are saying about combat feats but displays of power output also play a big role in determining how powerful a character is.

By your standards, Spider man > Firelord because Spider man pummeled him into unconsciousness. Never mind the fact that Firelord was capable of incinerating all of Manhattan. Spider man's "COMBAT FEAT" win over Firelord means Spiderman is more powerful than Firelord?

Originally posted by zopzop
Those are displays of POWER OUTPUT. If Odin busts galaxies and his fights shake the multiverse and threaten all reality with destruction, it says a lot of about his personal power.

Many abstracts havent' been shown as capable of doing half the things Odin has.

Surtur by himself caused more collateral damage forging his sword than the combined might of Galactus/Eon/Stranger/Two Celestials/Kronos/Mistress Love/Sire Hate/Lord Order/Master Chaos simultaneously blasting Thanos!

There's nothing to debate because it's shown on panel.

I get what you are saying about combat feats but displays of power output also play a big role in determining how powerful a character is.

By your standards, Spider man > Firelord because Spider man pummeled him into unconsciousness. Never mind the fact that Firelord was capable of incinerating all of Manhattan. Spider man's "COMBAT FEAT" win over Firelord means Spiderman is more powerful than Firelord? You don't use collateral damage as an argument. You do use combat feats.
And by combat feats galactus abstractsd are by far superior to Odin.

And as for the spiderman thing you obviously don't get the high/low showings thing. Firelord has much more impressive combat feats then that.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
You don't use collateral damage as an argument. You do use combat feats.
And by combat feats galactus abstractsd are by far superior to Odin.

Combat feats sans power output arent' too impressive, see the Spiderman/Firelord example.



Oh I do get it, but my point has eluded you.

Spiderman owned Firelord, on panel (it's one of your precious combat feats) but going by displays of power, Firelord > Spiderman (by far). You don't just take combat feats as proof, you use the character's history and ON PANEL power output when ranking them.

Originally posted by zopzop
Combat feats sans power output arent' too impressive, see the Spiderman/Firelord example.



Oh I do get it, but my point has eluded you.

Spiderman owned Firelord, on panel (it's one of your precious combat feats) but going by displays of power, Firelord > Spiderman (by far). You don't just take combat feats as proof, you use the character's history and ON PANEL power output when ranking them. You know thats 99% of fights right? And I already told you. You don't get the high/low showing thing.

No going by combat feats firelord>spiderman.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
You know thats 99% of fights right? And I already told you. You don't get the high/low showing thing.

No going by combat feats firelord>spiderman.

By your own definition, Spiderman > Firelord. Since power output means nothing to you. The one time Spiderman and Firelord tangled, Spiderman owned him.

But if we take into account POWER OUTPUT, Firelord >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Spiderman. And we can explain away the loss as a low showing.

Originally posted by zopzop
By your own definition, Spiderman > Firelord. Since power output means nothing to you. The one time Spiderman and Firelord tangled, Spiderman owned him.

But if we take into account POWER OUTPUT, Firelord >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Spiderman. And we can explain away the loss as a low showing. When did I say power output means nothing? Collateral damage means nothing.

We know from combat feats that Firelord>spiderman. See this is that high/low showing thing again.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
When did I say power output means nothing? Collateral damage means nothing.

Collateral damage is a direct result of power output! Unless you mean to tell me Spiderman and Sabertooth fighting will threaten reality with destruction and reignite dead stars throughout the universe.



The ONE time Firelord and Spiderman fought, who won? Spiderman! Nice combat feat for him. But we all know Firelord > Spiderman power output wise.