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Who wins?
Pre-retcon beyonder.

Been done before. Beyonder stomps.

Originally posted by galactusischere
Been done before. Beyonder stomps.

The way I remember it, there was a healthy debate.

I dunno, they both destroy everything, I guess.. And a newer, better omniverse rises from the ashes. Everybody wins!

Except Beyonder was stated to be MILLIONS of times more powerful than the entire multi-verse(omniverse). Including the LT and abstracts.

There was no debate either, 90% of people said that Beyonder would stomp Mandrakk. Same with the Mandrakk vs LT and Mandrakk vs MM threads.

Originally posted by galactusischere
Except Beyonder was stated to be MILLIONS of times more powerful than the entire multi-verse(omniverse). Including the LT and abstracts.

There was no debate either, 90% of people said that Beyonder would stomp Mandrakk. Same with the Mandrakk vs LT and Mandrakk vs MM threads.

The people debating for Mandrakk probably didn't want it to turn into a Marvel vs DC battle. Unless Beyonder can affect the metafictional idea of 'story', his reality warping is completely useless.

Originally posted by Allankles
The people debating for Mandrakk probably didn't want it to turn into a Marvel vs DC battle. Unless Beyonder can affect the metafictional idea of 'story', his reality warping is completely useless. We saw characters throughout the story affect Mandrakk so....

Originally posted by Allankles
The people debating for Mandrakk probably didn't want it to turn into a Marvel vs DC battle. Unless Beyonder can affect the metafictional idea of 'story', his reality warping is completely useless.

Beyonder had the power to destroy and recreate the MU with a snap. Mandrakk was eating it.....and was stopped.

Mandrakk wasn't REALLY eating the story you know?

Originally posted by quanchi112
We saw characters throughout the story affect Mandrakk so.... Quan shut this thread down.

Game over.

Mandrakk wins

Beyonder

Mandrakk.

Beyonder

Beyonder

Originally posted by Mindset
Quan shut this thread down.

Game over.

Originally posted by galactusischere
Been done before. Beyonder stomps. Originally posted by Mr Master
Beyonder Originally posted by Xplosive
Beyonder Originally posted by Slaanesh
Beyonder

Originally posted by quanchi112
We saw characters throughout the story affect Mandrakk so....
The extent to which he was effected (discounting the Cosmic Armor) is really not much different than the extent to which Beyonder was "effected" during SW.

Originally posted by Omega Vision

The extent to which he was effected (discounting the Cosmic Armor) is really not much different than the extent to which Beyonder was "effected" during SW.
Beyonder limited himself greatly
in order to fit in with the microbes (like the LT) he was dealing with.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Beyonder limited himself greatly
in order to fit in with the microbes (like the LT) he was dealing with.
Granted. But Mandrakk really wasn't hindered in the slightest by anything but the Cosmic Armor. So I'm not sure what 'effects' Quan is talking about. And yes I'm limiting "Mandrakk" in this case to V1 Novu Flavor (accept no substitutions).

Beyonder creates his own stories.

Mandrakk was himself described as an ever adapting story which destroyed other stories. People are getting caught up with the devices of the story (like reality warping or energy blasts) those things are irrelevant to Mandrakk, since it is not the devices of the story which affect him but the nature of the story.

This is why Superman and Ultraman were recruited by Novu's lady and not some 10th dimensional being.

Originally posted by Allankles
Mandrakk was himself described as an ever adapting story which destroyed other stories. People are getting caught up with the devices of the story (like reality warping or energy blasts) those things are irrelevant to Mandrakk, since it is not the devices of the story which affect him but the nature of the story.

This is why Superman and Ultraman were recruited by Novu's lady and not some 10th dimensional being.

And Beyonder was omnipotent.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
And Beyonder was omnipotent.

Nigh omnipotent you mean.

Originally posted by Allankles
Nigh omnipotent you mean.

No, I mean 100% omnipotent. Presence level omnipotent.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
No, I mean 100% omnipotent. Presence level omnipotent.

Where was it stated that the Beyonder was > TOOA though?

Originally posted by cdtm
Where was it stated that the Beyonder was > TOOA though?

TOAA > Beyonder = Presence

beyonder wasnt omnipotent. when he killed death he put a huge amount of his power into that crunk cup. afterward he was WAY weaker he even said so. omnipotent dudes dont run out of power or get weaker...... ever.


edit
heres a few scans to back up wat i said
http://img402.imageshack.us/i/beyonderweak1.jpg/
http://img19.imageshack.us/i/beyonderweak2.jpg/
http://img46.imageshack.us/i/beyonderweak3.jpg/

Originally posted by TheTyrant
TOAA > Beyonder = Presence
I'm not sure how you can say TOAA>Presence or the other way around for that matter.

Is the Presence the writer/editor, or is it just a character?

Originally posted by galactusischere
Is the Presence the writer/editor, or is it just a character?
Under Gaiman's pen He was just a character, THE most powerful character, but a character nonetheless, shaped by external forces (Neil Gaiman).

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Under Gaiman's pen He was just a character, THE most powerful character, but a character nonetheless, shaped by external forces (Neil Gaiman). I thought he was like TOAA and is the embodiement of the writer?

Originally posted by Black bolt z
I thought he was like TOAA and is the embodiement of the writer?
He is...sort of.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
He is...sort of. What does that mean?

Originally posted by Black bolt z
What does that mean?
Meaning it depends on the story and the writer.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Meaning it depends on the story and the writer. so he's like spectre?It all depends on who is writing for how powerful he is?

Originally posted by Black bolt z
so he's like spectre?It all depends on who is writing for how powerful he is?

thats like every character ever

Originally posted by jalek moye
thats like every character ever

Some just fluctuate more than others.

Originally posted by jalek moye
thats like every character ever I thought I heard an example of spectre being the example of that.Some writers he was insanely strong and some he was insanely weak.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
I thought I heard an example of spectre being the example of that.Some writers he was insanely strong and some he was insanely weak.
As I said above, some characters just have larger gaps, Spectre is probably the best example, he goes from Skyfather to Living Tribunal level depending on the story and writer.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
As I said above, some characters just have larger gaps, Spectre is probably the best example, he goes from Skyfather to Living Tribunal level depending on the story and writer. Yeah thats what I heard.Also can someone give comic names for comics with Madrakk in them?

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Yeah thats what I heard.Also can someone give comic names for comics with Madrakk in them?
Final Crisis Superman Beyond (Dax Novu version), Final Crisis #7 (Rox Ogama version). That's it.

Beyonder = PM > Mandrakk