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just want to say that i don't have a religion. for a few reasons, don't need to read a book on how i should live my life. don't need someone to tell me that im wrong in gods eyes. let me ask you are you god if not then worry about yourself. i can pick out a few religions i dislike the most but that is just my option. but my main reason for not fallowing religion is simple its fake. anyone can create there own religion if they have followers. so that means you don't like one just like a buffet grab another plate. now just cause i have no religion don't mean i don't worship my own way. pray ever night before bed. try not to judge others and all that good stuff. cause the facts are one angels envy us cause were gods favorite. witch brings me to the most obvious point of all god created us all. gave us all free will to think and act on our own. he has our whole life mapped out. and if you ask yourself what does he got in store for me. and this is what i got from religion so in turn he knows that i walk my own line and if it don't take me to him ill wonder around earth in limbo. don't believe in hell. well i do but he don't send you there. necessary evil my friends that is why we have all of it around one to test us and our willpower to him and to ourselves. without evil we could have no good. we would all be the same. so my religion is simple pray for what i have, and who i love and or care about. plus a little bit of help from him. that is my thought on religion you don't need one to reach god or be spiritual. that is just a line of bull shit that people say.

How can you be so religious, and not have a religion?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
How can you be so religious, and not have a religion?

Inherent logical contradictions are the foundation of many religious beliefs.

The thread seems to have no clear direction though, so I don't know how to respond.

I don't have a religion. Pagan sounds kinda cool though.

Otherwise, I just treat other people how I would like to be treated. That's not a religion though even if Jesus said first, but then again maybe he didn't. And maybe there isn't a Jesus too or maybe a different type of Jesus, heck, maybe I used to be Jesus, but then I would be talking about reincarnation. Is that a religion? Maybe it's just a belief. Are beliefs and religions the same?

Now my head hurts.

Originally posted by Deja~vu
I don't have a religion. Pagan sounds kinda cool though.

Otherwise, I just treat other people how I would like to be treated. That's not a religion though even if Jesus said first, but then again maybe he didn't. And maybe there isn't a Jesus too or maybe a different type of Jesus, heck, maybe I used to be Jesus, but then I would be talking about reincarnation. Is that a religion? Maybe it's just a belief. Are beliefs and religions the same?

Now my head hurts.

Me too.

If I used to be Jesus, would you respect me more??

And if not, why?

Now, that's a good question.

Gemini thinking gets in the way sometimes. LOL

Originally posted by Deja~vu


If I used to be Jesus, would you respect me more??

And if not, why?

Now, that's a good question.

No, but I would also not respect you less.

But they wrote a book about me.

They said I was really special.

Originally posted by Deja~vu
But they wrote a book about me.

They said I was really special.

You are special:

.

Way to ruin the already ruined thread. Ruiner.

Originally posted by Mairuzu
Way to ruin the already ruined thread. Ruiner.

It's what I do best. Oh wait, were you talking to me or Deja~vu?

I think hei's talking to you....Hehe

Nothing kills a page like a pic that makes you scroll to read other posts.

Originally posted by Digi
Nothing kills a page like a pic that makes you scroll to read other posts.

Sorry! Anyone know how to make the image smaller?

I always thought that men like to magnify their thoughts...

I like my beliefs.

Atheism is not a religion, contrary to what the majority says.

Originally posted by Impediment
I like my beliefs.

Atheism is not a religion, contrary to what the majority says.

Then why bring it up?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Sorry! Anyone know how to make the image smaller?

Yes. It's called "I'm a mod and just edited out the pic."



Also, use image hosting sites like photobucket or imageshack to upload it, and it will let you post thumbnails.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Then why bring it up?

Probably a lack of confidence.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Then why bring it up?

Probably because the title of the thread reads: "Thoughts on your religion." I felt it necessary to point out such simplistic stereotypes as to such of my belief structure, since I wanted to participate in the thread.

I figured you as more polite than to say as such.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Probably a lack of confidence.

I would post a long retort, since you so callously "figured me out" with your tact, but I shan't do such, since I have now deemed you not worth the effort. All I can say is that my level of confidence is light years ahead of yours. Bravo to you for deducing a complete stranger based on a singular post.

Originally posted by Impediment
Probably because the title of the thread reads: "Thoughts on your religion." I felt it necessary to point out such simplistic stereotypes as to such of my belief structure, since I wanted to participate in the thread.

I figured you as more polite than to say as such.



I would post a long retort, since you so callously "figured me out" with your tact, but I shan't do such, since I have now deemed you not worth the effort. All I can say is that my level of confidence is light years ahead of yours. Bravo to you for deducing a complete stranger based on a singular post.

What is a religion to you?

Conduct indicating a belief in a divine power.

I merely stated my previous post to, hopefully, sway certain stereotypes, is all.

haermm I dropped a duce in the toilet just now.

Originally posted by Impediment
Conduct indicating a belief in a divine power.

I merely stated my previous post to, hopefully, sway certain stereotypes, is all.

Ok, that's fine.

What do you call a religion that does not involve a divine power, like Buddhism?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Ok, that's fine.

What do you call a religion that does not involve a divine power, like Buddhism?

A belief structure.

Originally posted by Impediment
Conduct indicating a belief in a divine power.

I merely stated my previous post to, hopefully, sway certain stereotypes, is all. What stereotypes were you trying to sway?

Originally posted by Mindset
What stereotypes were you trying to sway?

That atheism, a la Madalyn Murray O'Hair, is not a religion. She tried, very much so, to convey atheism as a religion. She was, in my opinion, educated and deluded.

Shaky, I shall continue this convo at a later date. Much love to you, but I really need to go to sleep.

I will answer you tomorrow.

Originally posted by Impediment
Shaky, I shall continue this convo at a later date. Much love to you, but I really need to go to sleep.

I will answer you tomorrow.

Good night.

Originally posted by Impediment
I would post a long retort, since you so callously "figured me out" with your tact, but I shan't do such, since I have now deemed you not worth the effort.

Considering that no one had even mentioned atheism, let alone claimed it was a religion, it's a completely reasonable to assume they you're terrified of the idea that you might be seen as religious.

Originally posted by Impediment
All I can say is that my level of confidence is light years ahead of yours.

What an dangerously dogmatic stand to hold. You should always question your own beliefs.

If someone choses not to celebrate this and choses not to celebrate that, isn't that a ritual? It's a ritual in reverse, a counter ritual that is still some sort of ritual, right? It's a purposely done ritual not to ritual.

Is that a religon since religions are said to have rituals?

Originally posted by Deja~vu
If someone choses not to celebrate this and choses not to celebrate that, isn't that a ritual? It's a ritual in reverse, a counter ritual that is still some sort of ritual, right? It's a purposely done ritual not to ritual.

Is that a religon since religions are said to have rituals?

The default position is to do nothing. Not celebrating things doesn't count as an "anti-ritual".

A religion requires more than rituals anyway.

Like a belief?

An anti-action? That is still an action, isn't it?

Sorry...lol

i dont understand.

by definition, youre only religious if you perform rituals in accordance with your belief?

A ritual is doing something systematically, isn't it? Well, isn't it?

Sorry if I'm wrong. lol

And don't worry, Ms Marvel, youre not gonna die. LOL, read your profile. God, if you do, then youre luck. lol

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Considering that no one had even mentioned atheism, let alone claimed it was a religion, it's a completely reasonable to assume they you're terrified of the idea that you might be seen as religious.

Before I start, I apologize for my crude comment earlier, seeing as how when I posted I was inebriated.

To topic: how did you come to that conclusion, exactly? For the record, I am an ex-christian who became atheist at age 18. Terrified? Not especially, no.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
What an dangerously dogmatic stand to hold. You should always question your own beliefs.

I do. Really, I do. However, the question I asked myself along time ago, rather than the age old. "Is there a god", is "Do I give a damn if there is, in fact, a god"? My answer is no. I don't care if there is a god.

To quote Madalyn O'Hair:



These are good thoughts, in my opinion.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
But that's not my point. Would you agree that my interpretation of religion is different then yours?

I would have to concede to that, yes. Still, I'm of the opinion that atheism, no matter how many people say otherwise, is not a religion.

Maybe I should have just stayed out of the thread.

Originally posted by Impediment
To quote Madalyn O'Hair:

"An Atheist believes that a hospital should be built instead of a church. An atheist believes that deed must be done instead of prayer said. An atheist strives for involvement in life and not escape into death. He wants disease conquered, poverty vanished, war eliminated."

These are good thoughts, in my opinion. Those are good thoughts, but they are hardly the province of only the atheist.

Originally posted by Mindship
Those are good thoughts, but they are hardly the province of only the atheist.

Sure they are. Fact: all religious folk go around killing random people in order to send them to heaven.

I'll say that these are hardly the province of most Christians.

you think most Christians dont want hospitals built wars ended and disease expunged from the earth?

I think that most organized christians would pray and wait for a miracle to happen instead of doing what needs to be done, yes.

interesting...

Originally posted by Impediment
I think that most organized christians would pray and wait for a miracle to happen instead of doing what needs to be done, yes. You've asked the majority of Christians and that was their response?

I have not. Maybe this is too harsh of a generalization, but it's really what I think.

Originally posted by Impediment
I think that most organized christians would pray and wait for a miracle to happen instead of doing what needs to be done, yes.

Most would probably give to a charity. In fact there a lot of very large Christian charities and just given pure random chance I would bet that most charities in the US are headed by Christians.

Originally posted by Impediment
I would have to concede to that, yes. Still, I'm of the opinion that atheism, no matter how many people say otherwise, is not a religion.

Maybe I should have just stayed out of the thread.

No, there is no problem with your constitution to this thread, and I am enjoying the debate.

So, you would not hold yourself to the same standard that you hold everyone else? What I mean is, if everyone believed that Atheism was a religion, then you would still not believe?

Originally posted by Deja~vu
A ritual is doing something systematically, isn't it? Well, isn't it?

Sorry if I'm wrong. lol

And don't worry, Ms Marvel, youre not gonna die. LOL, read your profile. God, if you do, then youre luck. lol

what? o.o

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
No, there is no problem with your constitution to this thread, and I am enjoying the debate.

So, you would not hold yourself to the same standard that you hold everyone else? What I mean is, if everyone believed that Atheism was a religion, then you would still not believe?

Well, I would have to answer your question with a question:

Since atheism is, in fact, a belief structure based on non-belief in any kind of higher power, what would you categorize Buddhism as? I am genuinely curious, since I want to answer you queries with an intelligent response.

(BTW, Shaky, I apologize for my earlier crude retort. I was inebriated. I see you as a very intelligent person and all I did was show my ass when you, and Symetric Chaos, challenged my opening post.)

I'm not sure that this is the case.

Atheism has not changed the relationship between man and god. It has excised the relationship. While other modes of thought (like humanism) may replace that relationship with a relationship between man and man, I do not think that Atheism has done so.

Religion borned the most cowardly spiteful acts any human could ever commit. The core reason every peice of genecide ever commited.
Ive no problem with the idea of a God - in the most general of terms - but religion has No right to exist.

Religion is entirely interpretation a thousand year old game of chinese whispers and no matter which ****ing way it's read the answer is ALWAYS blood, and segregation. I hate religion down to my bones, and i'll be sure to tell God that if i ever see him. He'd likely agree.

/bitter, on this subject.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
It seems like you are ascribing motivations to others that may not exist. It is like when Christians say that someone is an atheist simply because she "doesn't like God." This is oversimplifying the matter. Atheism isn't seeking to contribute something valuable. It can't be said to be doing anything as a bloc at all. You are making the mistake of treating it as a monolithic group, and I hope that I have convinced you otherwise.

I'd like to take the chance to make a little prediction: Atheism will neither "die out" nor will we move on. There may be an increase in atheists or there may be a decrease, but that will be a consequence of individual choices. It cannot die out because there will always be people that simply do not believe.

awesome post, we are in total agreement with pretty much everything

however, there is a recent, as in last 10 years, trend in atheists trying to come together. The Atheist Alliance movement holds talks and conventions about what being an atheist is about, Dawkins tried to start the ill-fated "brights" movement, and even Sam Harris, when speaking to the Atheist Alliance about why it is better NOT to call oneself an atheist, was faced with an audiance who, point blank, said they needed a "thing" to call themselves.

Now, I'm not saying that makes them a religion, but there is something there. Human psychology is such that it is not only tribalist, but it seeks to divide the world into tribes. For people like myself, whom the label of atheism or the actual disbelief in god is not central to anything I believe about the world, it doesn't make any sense, but for others, there is a need to see themselves as something which is qualitatively opposed to something else.

In a lot of ways, what religion is as a social and cultural force, there is a very vocal community of self-defining atheists who are attempting the same thing.

No, I don't think it is a religion in any way, it might be similar to Marxism or other movements like that, only that they are at the hegemony building stages, and we are privillaged with actually getting to see the debates about what this atheism means (and it appears it will be Dawkins who gets to set a lot of that agenda, imho)

Originally posted by Juk3n
Religion borned the most cowardly spiteful acts any human could ever commit. The core reason every peice of genecide ever commited.
Ive no problem with the idea of a God - in the most general of terms - but religion has No right to exist.

Religion is entirely interpretation a thousand year old game of chinese whispers and no matter which ****ing way it's read the answer is ALWAYS blood, and segregation. I hate religion down to my bones, and i'll be sure to tell God that if i ever see him. He'd likely agree.

/bitter, on this subject.

You sound like a religious man.

Humans are the reason for the cowardly spiteful acts you speak of, not religion. Religion is a reflection of humans nature, not the other way around.

If you got rid of all religions, humans would siply make up new ones.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You sound like a religious man.

no way, i don't follow any religion, i just keep an open mind to anything i can't explain, once (if ever ) we - humans - get enough facts about all the questions we've been asking for thousands of years - questions that spawned religion in the first place - then belief can go spin, becuase we'll have 'knowing' instead of believeing. But until then, i've no problems holding up my hands and saying, God might be, Religion is for fools, I don't know all the answers and what time is dinner.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison Humans are the reason for the cowardly spiteful acts you speak of, not religion. Religion is a reflection of humans nature, not the other way around.
Yes humans are, but in the holy books (the staple, bread and butter for the 3 major religions) Killing. blood, hellfire , segregation and more blood covers alot of text. Did men write the books? I believe so..but they ARE at the core of those religions none the less. Would there be such a thing as A Muslim extremeist if the Quran did not SPECIFICALLY state to "wipe out anyone who doesn't believe as you do, torture them until they turn or die"? (more-or-less). Blame the men that wrote the books? or blame the people for listening to such rubbish..well..thats religions hold on man. But men do these things in the name of there religion, we can sit back and say "well he was just an evil bugger anyway" aye, you might be right, but to him..he's as poious as can be, religion made him do it, so he tells himself to justify it.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison If you got rid of all religions, humans would siply make up new ones.

well id have to agree with you there brother, sheep must be led, and the pyramid that is civilization needs a head stone if God did not exist, it would be necassary to invent him, afterall. Never a truer quote have i ever heard btw.

Originally posted by Juk3n
no way, i don't follow any religion, i just keep an open mind to anything i can't explain, once (if ever ) we - humans - get enough facts about all the questions we've been asking for thousands of years - questions that spawned religion in the first place - then belief can go spin, becuase we'll have 'knowing' instead of believeing. But until then, i've no problems holding up my hands and saying, God might be, Religion is for fools, I don't know all the answers and what time is dinner.


Yes humans are, but in the holy books (the staple, bread and butter for the 3 major religions) Killing. blood, hellfire , segregation and more blood covers alot of text. Did men write the books? I believe so..but they ARE at the core of those religions none the less. Would there be such a thing as A Muslim extremeist if the Quran did not SPECIFICALLY state to "wipe out anyone who doesn't believe as you do, torture them until they turn or die"? (more-or-less). Blame the men that wrote the books? or blame the people for listening to such rubbish..well..thats religions hold on man. But men do these things in the name of there religion, we can sit back and say "well he was just an evil bugger anyway" aye, you might be right, but to him..he's as poious as can be, religion made him do it, so he tells himself to justify it.



well id have to agree with you there brother, sheep must be led, and the pyramid that is civilization needs a head stone if God did not exist, it would be necassary to invent him, afterall. Never a truer quote have i ever heard btw.

But in your ranting against religion, you have lumped the guilty with the innocent. Have you ever hear of Buddhist extremists that kill people? Or are you saying that Buddhism is not a religion?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
But in your ranting against religion, you have lumped the guilty with the innocent. Have you ever hear of Buddhist extremists that kill people? Or are you saying that Buddhism is not a religion?

You've a point.

Buddhism is indeed a religion, but while it may be one of the ones that have go the whole "peace and love" thing correct, it is still a faith based position that i feel shouldn't exist. Could these Buddhists be as nice and peaceful and such a credit to mankind WITHOUT religion? Does there need to be Religion at all if they could?

Im a nice man - some might say - I don't need fear of God/Hell or holy text to convince me not to kill my neighbour for being rude to me. Buddhists are nice people and they are indeed religious. But is it the same as just being nice for Humanitys sake?

Damn, im really bad at explaining things dude, and your a smart guy i don't wanna come off as a douche, ok heres an example of what i mean. A mental patient, very unstable, has attacked her family - not killed - but is considered a danger. However if she takes her drugs, she'll be fine. But they alter her personality very much, and the 'real her' will likely never come through the meds.

The drugs keep her in check, she's tolerated, but we'll never know she's better or not, because no one wants to risk stopping her meds. Apply that to religion, Every Human has the capacity to be a good man/woman. Buddhist/Muslim w/e. Religion isnt needed for them to do it. But as long as Humanity holds on to religion so fiercly (like the meds) we'll be stagnant, we'll never move forward, we'll be playing safe, by these thousand year old stories and rules. Some work, some don't but the ones that work are inbuilt, helping your fellow man comes naturally to Humans. But religions will have you belive it comes from those blasted texts, and that those inbuilt human good intentions go hand in hand with the raging hellfire and all that bollox.

A faith based position should NEVER be the ruling body of a civilization. Whether it spouts the good or the bad. Id rather have humanitys good and bad, than the divines good and bad. For goodness sakes, there are some people that think i am am going to burn in hell for eternity because me and my beautiful - soon to be wife - have 2 children together. But have i hurt mankind? no, is this an evil act? no? do i love my family? very much so. Religion? meh i say. If religion didnt exist, small minds would be opened.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
But in your ranting against religion, you have lumped the guilty with the innocent. Have you ever hear of Buddhist extremists that kill people? Or are you saying that Buddhism is not a religion?

Buddhists have killed people. There was a group that formed a military in ancient China, I believe.

Originally posted by Juk3n
But as long as Humanity holds on to religion so fiercly (like the meds) we'll be stagnant, we'll never move forward, we'll be playing safe, by these thousand year old stories and rules.

I think every historian to ever live would disagree with you here. Humans have advanced in changed in innumerable different areas and in all that time we have been religious.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I think every historian to ever live would disagree with you here. Humans have advanced in changed in innumerable different areas and in all that time we have been religious.

The big scientific breakthroughs, i mean the real show stoppers, atoms and galactical ones have always been made by the men who questioned. These men might have been brought up to follow a religion, but after there studies and discoveries you can bet your bottom dollor they wer'nt so cut and dry about believing everything in those holy books. Im not saying they turned atheist, but they i AM saying that when they made those discoveries, they had God/Religion neatly tucked away in the left breast pocket while they sought out REALITY rather than Fairy Tale. GOD..they were open minded to, Religion..im sure they picked it apart page by page until they had the same view as many..God might be, we'll never know..what time is dinner.

Originally posted by Juk3n
You've a point.

Buddhism is indeed a religion, but while it may be one of the ones that have go the whole "peace and love" thing correct, it is still a faith based position that i feel shouldn't exist. Could these Buddhists be as nice and peaceful and such a credit to mankind WITHOUT religion? Does there need to be Religion at all if they could?

Im a nice man - some might say - I don't need fear of God/Hell or holy text to convince me not to kill my neighbour for being rude to me. Buddhists are nice people and they are indeed religious. But is it the same as just being nice for Humanitys sake?

Damn, im really bad at explaining things dude, and your a smart guy i don't wanna come off as a douche, ok heres an example of what i mean. A mental patient, very unstable, has attacked her family - not killed - but is considered a danger. However if she takes her drugs, she'll be fine. But they alter her personality very much, and the 'real her' will likely never come through the meds.

The drugs keep her in check, she's tolerated, but we'll never know she's better or not, because no one wants to risk stopping her meds. Apply that to religion, Every Human has the capacity to be a good man/woman. Buddhist/Muslim w/e. Religion isnt needed for them to do it. But as long as Humanity holds on to religion so fiercly (like the meds) we'll be stagnant, we'll never move forward, we'll be playing safe, by these thousand year old stories and rules. Some work, some don't but the ones that work are inbuilt, helping your fellow man comes naturally to Humans. But religions will have you belive it comes from those blasted texts, and that those inbuilt human good intentions go hand in hand with the raging hellfire and all that bollox.

A faith based position should NEVER be the ruling body of a civilization. Whether it spouts the good or the bad. Id rather have humanitys good and bad, than the divines good and bad. For goodness sakes, there are some people that think i am am going to burn in hell for eternity because me and my beautiful - soon to be wife - have 2 children together. But have i hurt mankind? no, is this an evil act? no? do i love my family? very much so. Religion? meh i say. If religion didnt exist, small minds would be opened.

TV can be viewed as a drug. Maybe we should get rid of TV.
Computers can be viewed as a drug. Maybe we should get rid of computers.
Music can be viewed as a drug. Maybe we should get rid of music.
Sugar can be viewed as a drug. Maybe we should get rid of sugar....

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
TV can be viewed as a drug. Maybe we should get rid of TV.
Computers can be viewed as a drug. Maybe we should get rid of computers.
Music can be viewed as a drug. Maybe we should get rid of music.
Sugar can be viewed as a drug. Maybe we should get rid of sugar....

viewed as isnt the same as being a.
Just like a faith based position isnt the same as a reality based one.

Even more so because one of these positions has no right to exist. And i can say that with all due respect, because no respect is actually due (not to you, i mean to the faith based positions around the world). Human lives on earth are short, we have o concentraite on things we can grasp. God will never be one of them. Never in anyones lifetime.

edit: Wars arnt fought over music friend..nor sugar..etc. Hitler wouldn't have even had a cause if religion didnt exist, Not that im saying it's that particular religions fault, but none-the-less, It sparked the hate in one man.

Originally posted by Juk3n
viewed as isnt the same as being a.

Religion is not a drug. You are simply viewing it as a drug.


Originally posted by Juk3n
Just like a faith based position isnt the same as a reality based one.

I believe you are talking about blind faith. You have faith in a lot of things in life. Like for example, you have faith in science. At the most fundamental level, science cannot be proved; you must have faith.

Originally posted by Juk3n
Even more so because one of these positions has no right to exist.

You do not have the right to make that choice for other people. If you impose that opinion onto other people, then you are no better then the preserved evil you claim to be against.

Originally posted by Juk3n
And i can say that with all due respect, because no respect is actually due (not to you, i mean to the faith based positions around the world).

You get only what you give.

Originally posted by Juk3n
Human lives on earth are short, we have o concentraite on things we can grasp. God will never be one of them. Never in anyones lifetime.

edit: Wars arnt fought over music friend..nor sugar..etc. Hitler wouldn't have even had a cause if religion didnt exist, Not that im saying it's that particular religions fault, but none-the-less, It sparked the hate in one man.

Hate is independent of religion. An atheist can also hate.

Originally posted by Juk3n
Even more so because one of these positions has no right to exist.

You say this and then go on to criticize Hitler. How odd...

Originally posted by Juk3n
Human lives on earth are short, we have o concentraite on things we can grasp.

How do we know what we can grasp until we concentrate on understanding it? Obviously gods really are untestable, ineffable and such but the principle your setting down is not a good one.

Originally posted by Juk3n
Hitler wouldn't have even had a cause if religion didnt exist, Not that im saying it's that particular religions fault, but none-the-less, It sparked the hate in one man.

Yes he would have. Hitler went after the Jews because they were a convenient target for the rage the German people already felt. "Bankers" would have been an equally good target. The Roman actually were.

You've also stepped into the absolute worst sort of "blame the victim" mentality here. Religion must be exterminated because there are people who hate religion? Hmm...

I am going to throw in my two cents on this issue: Atheism is not a religion. If atheism was a religion, then pretty much anything in the world could be considered a religion, which invalidates the purpose of having that word in the first place.

Originally posted by Impediment
To be honest Shaky, I would call that a chore and an obligation. Classic.

Originally posted by King Kandy
I am going to throw in my two cents on this issue: Atheism is not a religion. If atheism was a religion, then pretty much anything in the world could be considered a religion, which invalidates the purpose of having that word in the first place.

But atheism is not anti-religion; it is anti-god. Religion and the belief in a god a not mutually inclusive (see Buddhism). Therefore, it is possible to form a religion whose main doctrine is atheistic.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
But atheism is not anti-religion; it is anti-god. Religion and the belief in a god a not mutually inclusive (see Buddhism). Therefore, it is possible to form a religion whose main doctrine is atheistic.
It certainly is, and there are many religions that include atheism as an element, such as some sects of Buddhism and Humanism. However, atheism is merely a property of these religions. Not a religion in and of itself.

Originally posted by King Kandy
It certainly is, and there are many religions that include atheism as an element, such as some sects of Buddhism and Humanism. However, atheism is merely a property of these religions. Not a religion in and of itself.

So, are you saying that atheism is anti-religious? If so, then how could a religion have atheism as a property? To me, that does not make any sense.

It is possible for atheism to be a key element of a religion, so long as you designed it to be. Remember, humans make religions, not the other way around.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
So, are you saying that atheism is anti-religious? If so, then how could a religion have atheism as a property? To me, that does not make any sense.

It is possible for atheism to be a key element of a religion, so long as you designed it to be. Remember, humans make religions, not the other way around.
When did I ever say atheism was anti-religious... it isn't anti anything, it's simply an absence.

There are no "kinds of atheism". You either believe in deities, or you don't. Just because the context they came to the idea is different in no way changes the substance of the idea itself.

Originally posted by King Kandy
There are no "kinds of atheism". You either believe in deities, or you don't. Just because the context they came to the idea is different in no way changes the substance of the idea itself.

Not believing in a deity is different then an absence of the belief in a deity. Both can exist, but the later is not to be found on this forum.
.

ok Shakya, explain to me what benefit there is to discourse from interpreting "atheism" as a religion.

Your own semantic rhetorical devices would seem to make any definition of atheism seem foolish. In the same way that you said:

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
So, are you saying that atheism is anti-religious? If so, then how could a religion have atheism as a property? To me, that does not make any sense.

it would be just as nonsensical for one religion to have an entire other religion as part of it.

it really seems like you are just picking apart words here. what is your coherent doctrine of atheism that unites me and King Kandy on a spiritual level? Or even just, how do we better understand "atheism" by calling it a "religion" rather than a "social movement" or an "identity movement"?

My God is better than yours....

Originally posted by kgkg
My God is better than yours....

Or my non-god is better then yours.

You seem very determined to tell me what I think.

Is there a reason why you are telling me that I am a liar? Why is it impossible to have a lack of belief in something that I know about?

"The people of your culture spend a great deal of time believing in something that may not exist, or disbelieving in something that may exist."

That basically sums up my position. I do not believe in it, but I do not disbelieve in it. Thus, when asked "do I believe in god" my answer is no. I do not believe in a god.

Surely you can understand that I'm NOT making the claim that there is no god. (Burden of proof and all that.)

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Or my non-god is better then yours. I am your non-god.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
You seem very determined to tell me what I think.

Is there a reason why you are telling me that I am a liar? Why is it impossible to have a lack of belief in something that I know about?

There is a difference between disbelief and lack of concept.

For example: there is an animal called the blue-eared-caterpillar. Since it is fictional you had no concept of it until I mentioned it. However now that you have been informed of the idea you actively disbelieve my former claim that it is real (if not, you're a very poor atheist).

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
There is a difference between disbelief and lack of concept.

For example: there is an animal called the blue-eared-caterpillar. Since it is fictional you had no concept of it until I mentioned it. However now that you have been informed of the idea you actively disbelieve my former claim that it is real (if not, you're a very poor atheist).
Would you say he now has an "anti-blue-eared-caterpillar" religion?

Originally posted by King Kandy
Would you say he now has an "anti-blue-eared-caterpillar" religion?

Of course not. But he does have the seed to form one if he wants to.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Or my non-god is better then yours. I hope so.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Of course not. But he does have the seed to form one if he wants to.
So you agree that simply being exposed to and rejecting the idea of God doesn't mean that's your religion.

Originally posted by inimalist
i certainly don't believe that

Then you're not a Real True Atheist

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Then you're not a Real True Atheist

say that again and I will end you

Originally posted by inimalist
...
I've met them in classes and such. Do you think "uninformed and ignorant loud mouth Christian" is a distinct "religion" though?

Yes, they are called Baptists.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Yes, they are called Baptists.

ziiiiiiiiiiiiiiing

I think there's no such thing as agnostic. If you don't believe there is a God, you're an atheist.

Originally posted by King Kandy
I think there's no such thing as agnostic. If you don't believe there is a God, you're an atheist.

But agnostics believe there maybe a god, but are not sure. Or they believe there may not be a god, but are not sure. This is a difficult needle to thread.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
But agnostics believe there maybe a god, but are not sure. Or they believe there may not be a god, but are not sure. This is a difficult needle to thread.
If they aren't sure, then they don't have a positive belief in god - hence they are atheists, atheism being the absence of a positive belief in God.

Originally posted by King Kandy
If they aren't sure, then they don't have a positive belief in god - hence they are atheists, atheism being the absence of a positive belief in God.

And technically, Buddhism is a form of Atheism.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
This is pantheistic nonsense. I suppose you could also call a shovel an ice cream machine, but it would not be an ice cream machine in any sense that any one understands it.



The belief that the Creation and God are one indivisible entity is a Hindu one, not a Buddhist one.

Whenever Zen or Nichiren Buddhist texts mention god or anything resembling pantheism, its because they're borrowing and/or intentionally appealing to Shinto. They're both a bastardization of original Indian Buddhism, in which no god(s) play any part.

Originally posted by King Kandy
If they aren't sure, then they don't have a positive belief in god - hence they are atheists, atheism being the absence of a positive belief in God.

What is a negative belief?

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
And technically, Buddhism is a form of Atheism.





The belief that the Creation and God are one indivisible entity is a Hindu one, not a Buddhist one.

Whenever Zen or Nichiren Buddhist texts mention god or anything resembling pantheism, its because they're borrowing and/or intentionally appealing to Shinto. They're both a bastardization of original Indian Buddhism, in which no god(s) play any part.

Nichiren Buddhism does not mention a god in any way. I was giving my opinion. However, The Mystic Law is a part of Nichiren Buddhism. You can find it in the Lotus Sutra.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
This is pantheistic nonsense. I suppose you could also call a shovel an ice cream machine, but it would not be an ice cream machine in any sense that any one understands it.

Pantheistic
A doctrine identifying the Deity with the universe and its phenomena.

How is that nonsense? And how would you know, one way or the other?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
What is a negative belief?
I can't really think of anything that qualifies. I guess positive could be better stated as "affirmative", that is anyone who doesn't have an affirmative belief in god, is an atheist.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Pantheistic
A doctrine identifying the Deity with the universe and its phenomena.

How is that nonsense? And how would you know, one way or the other?

If one was to ask a theist if god is "the transcendent reality of which the material universe including human beings are only manifestations," he would most certainly reply that god is "the one supreme being that created and rules the Universe."

I suppose I could define god as "a utensil used for writing or drawing," but it would not follow from this that it is true.

Pantheists are free to hold that the former is the definition of god, but is certainly not god as anyone else understands the term, and the equivocation only serves to dilute its meaning, and confound the discourse.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Nichiren Buddhism does not mention a god in any way. I was giving my opinion.

Even if it contradicts your text? The Lotus Sutra doesn't mention god, and yet you say you believe in one? Come on, man. That's like a Muslim saying "Ya know, I think there is more than one god.".

What's the point of claiming a certain religion if you're gonna blatantly ignore its basic rules? A Muslim may enjoy bacon now and then, but he must believe in only one god.

You're like a stereotypical white convert to Buddhism, as described in this excerpt from Stuff White People Like, Chapter 2: Religions That Their Parents Don't Belong To. http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/01/18/2-religions-that-their-parents-dont-belong-to/

what is there to believe in with quantum mechanics?

Originally posted by King Kandy
If so, "I'm an agnostic" is also an affirmation, so my point still stands.

Are you pulling a Bugs Bunny on me?

http://images.free-extras.com/pics/b/bugs_bunny_with_carrot-1031.jpg

Originally posted by inimalist
what is there to believe in with quantum mechanics?

Are you confusing the word believe with worship? If not, there are physicists who do not believe in quantum mechanics. In my reading, I have ran across some of these alternate theories, but I'm not versed enough in them to discuss them in any intelligent way.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Are you pulling a Bugs Bunny on me?

I don't understand what you're talking about.

Originally posted by King Kandy
I don't understand what you're talking about.

Bugs Bunny would get into an argument with the bad guy. Then he would flip the argument in mid stream, causing the bad guy to agree with Bugs. Bugs would then say "oh, you are right".

Originally posted by Shakyamunison


So, the fact that I am white means something of significance to you?


Did you not read the article I linked? It describes you perfectly. A White American who was raised Christian, and then adopted a new religion not invlolving Jesus.

In fact its a religion in which figurines of its founder makes for nice little home and lawn ornaments, and there's little faith or duty involved.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison

I think you are confusing belief with worship. I believe there is a mountain called Everest, although I have never seen it with my own eyes. However, I do not worship it. The same can be said about God.

The Lotus Sutra does not say anything about Quantum Mechanics. Am I not allowed to believe in Quantum Mechanics? The fact is, as long as I do not misrepresent the philosophy of my religion, I can believe whatever I want too. We have devout Christians in our membership, who believe in Jesus and chant. There is no one telling them that they are wrong (with the exception of other Christians).

A mountain that can be proven to exist, and god? That's a bad comparison. If a religious text makes a statement about god, or lacks one, you can't make it up on your own.

Christians in your membership? See, this is why Buddhism is only arguably a relgion.

1) No belief in god.

2) No stance on an afterlife.

3) Its founder never claimed to be on any higher mission.

4) Anyone can whimsically call themself one.

The Dalai Lama once said that anyone of any background can practice the Eightfold Path without necessarily being Buddhist. What? That's like a Muslim saying that anyone can practice the Five Pillars without converting; its just doesn't make sense, and makes Buddhism appear frail in its convictions (if it has any, that is.)

sigh... what do you truly know about Buddhism?

their are breathing exercise and meditational techniques as well as mental exercises not all of them stem and have to do with belief of bhuddism being a religion..

you dont have to be christian to think jesus was a cool cat and decide to live by his philosophy of specific example. ppl can read any and all religions and not be fully adherent let alone be it their personal belief.

my mom is catholic i was born catholic i went to Saturday and Sunday school for a few hours each weekend.. i am not christian nor catholic. i practiced and studied Buddhism as part of my Martial arts career prior to removing myself form Christianity not once did i consider that offensive or disrespectful to jesus or god.. b/c i never worshiped any of the Buddhas...

and my mom also has dozens of bhudda statues and oriental stuff b/c she thinks its neat and she knows all about what it is she buying and decorating with.... everything from keeping bad spirits, to good luck and health crap. partly b/c she researches it herself or b/c i have informed her.


also just b/c some like to view bhuddism as a religion and others claim it as not b.c it doesnt adhere to their own predisposed idea of what a religion should be is just ignorant. i personally view it as simply a philosophy of life nothing more nothing less and i am aware that others view it more then that.

so again jesus once said to turn the other cheek do not worship him gods church is every where not in stones and buildings. etc etc. does that some how negate the modern belief of christianity that goes against everything jesus said?

how about one retarded minister or racist f%^&$ or pope who says something that is just out right ignorant do they speak for the whole of religion, god and ppl? does that mean we dont take their religion seriously as a whole b/c of what one person says?

i am sure the pope's of the past has stated that we are all children of god and we try to find him in our own way regardless of religions tongues and various nations.. but they all have similar messages is that not similar to your example of the dalai lama?

Wild Shadow Check it out...

http://www.sgi-usa.org/

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Wild Shadow Check it out...

http://www.sgi-usa.org/ um.. okay? is that like some kind of bhuddist hookup site?

remember how i told you i no longer seek inner peace or spiritual growth.. i know what bhuddism has to offer but no longer seek it i have found my own way and path.. which is beating ppl down for their ignorance and lack of spiritual growth or enlightenment.

E46ygDkbJUM

but anyways that spill that i typed wasnt directed at you but at mota his comment pissed me the f&^%$ off..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5k-faweF6Ww

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
um.. okay? is that like some kind of bhuddist hookup site?

remember how i told you i no longer seek inner peace or spiritual growth.. i know what bhuddism has to offer but no longer seek it i have found my own way and path.. which is beating ppl down for their ignorance and lack of spiritual growth or enlightenment.

but anyways that spill that i typed wasnt directed at you but at mota his comment pissed me the f&^%$ off..

I realize that you were beating on mota , this time. I simple thought the site could answer some of the question you were asking. It was for reference only.

back on track.

i am not hung up on labels.. i bn called athiest.. christian,, catholic and bhuddist.. sometimes by others and some times by me one time or another.

i realize that calling myself something does not make me what i claim to be nor to i believe nor adhere to whatever religion or philosophy of life i am currently practicing.


i studied Buddhism and lived and breathed it for over a decade.. i read and studied the bible as a small child and although i hated and was always angry at the priest and nuns for their judgmental views about what they considered evil as a small child i always loved and respected jesus..

i remember the nuns always telling my mom it was a sin to take me to karate class and expose me to their oriental beliefs.. my mom was a good hearted person who didnt share such ignorant asinine views and continued to take me to karate classes and MA's movies and even take me to meet some monks in los angeles when i was very little.. i immediately saw the difference even as a small 8 yr old between the spiritual message of jesus and the difference of a hard core catholic nun and priest that all is evil. i was able to compare a kind hearted soft spoken bhuddist man who didn't claim to know all the answers and as a little kid i saw the monk was closer to what i considered jesus to be then some, priest, nun, pasture or pope..


i guess my personal belief is a blend of both but not institutionalized aspect as in i dont need to go to church and hear someone tell me what he thinks god wants me to be or do..

1st off i could care less what the old testament god did as in he is not what i consider god to be.,.. i know it is blasphemy whatever.. to me the bible is written by man if their was anything spiritual and holy it has bn warped by millennium of mistranslations and out dated beliefs.
what the f&^% do i care about what to do when it comes about farming and finding tools and what to do or what plants or animals to eat.

jesus and the new testament is what i consider to have any spiritual significance whether he existed or not... and even then i throw out garbage and things that has nothing to do with jesus and doesnt jive with his message like revelations...

i also belief in certain spiritual ideas or at least like to strongly accept them.. thinks like karma and transmitting good thoughts and messages and all thinks being connected etc etc.. to me that and jesus message seem to overlap. i dont know what god is or if he exist i would like to think he does but it is not my place to say i know what he or she is nor em i arrogant enough to claim that i know or whatever i am correctly practicing is absolute truth.. as much as i like an afterlife with kind hearted spiritual ppl like jesus or simply dying and ceasing to exist into nothing does not bother me i can accept either one... if i am wrong then i am wrong it is called acceptance i learned that from bhuddism i have no need to make excuses for my belief or actions... i feel pity for ppl who do or follow religion out of fear rather then for knowledge and love or spiritual growth.. i also feel deep seeded hate for the arrogant and the proudly ignorant who flaunt it as a patch of honor..

i dont know all the answers or what is truth but i am willing to try to learn and stay open minded and spend my life having a good time looking.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
back on track.

i am not hung up on labels.. i bn called athiest.. christian,, catholic and bhuddist.. sometimes by others and some times by me one time or another.

i realize that calling myself something does not make me what i claim to be nor to i believe nor adhere to whatever religion or philosophy of life i am currently practicing.


i studied Buddhism and lived and breathed it for over a decade.. i read and studied the bible as a small child and although i hated and was always angry at the priest and nuns for their judgmental views about what they considered evil as a small child i always loved and respected jesus..

i remember the nuns always telling my mom it was a sin to take me to karate class and expose me to their oriental beliefs.. my mom was a good hearted person who didnt share such ignorant asinine views and continued to take me to karate classes and MA's movies and even take me to meet some monks in los angeles when i was very little.. i immediately saw the difference even as a small 8 yr old between the spiritual message of jesus and the difference of a hard core catholic nun and priest that all is evil. i was able to compare a kind hearted soft spoken bhuddist man who didn't claim to know all the answers and as a little kid i saw the monk was closer to what i considered jesus to be then some, priest, nun, pasture or pope..


i guess my personal belief is a blend of both but not institutionalized aspect as in i dont need to go to church and hear someone tell me what he thinks god wants me to be or do..

1st off i could care less what the old testament god did as in he is not what i consider god to be.,.. i know it is blasphemy whatever.. to me the bible is written by man if their was anything spiritual and holy it has bn warped by millennium of mistranslations and out dated beliefs.
what the f&^% do i care about what to do when it comes about farming and finding tools and what to do or what plants or animals to eat.

jesus and the new testament is what i consider to have any spiritual significance whether he existed or not... and even then i throw out garbage and thinks that has nothing to do with jesus and doesnt jive with his message like revelations...

i also belief in certain spiritual ideas or at least like to strongly accept them.. thinks like karma and transmitting good thoughts and messages and all thinks being connected etc etc.. to me that and jesus message seem to overlap. i dont know what god is or if he exist i would like to think he does but it is not my place to say i know what he or she is nor em i arrogant enough to claim that i know or whatever i am correctly practicing is absolute truth.. as much as i like an afterlife with kind hearted spiritual ppl like jesus or simply dying and ceasing to exist into nothing does not bother me i can accept either one... if i am wrong then i am wrong it is called acceptance i learned that from bhuddism i have no need to make excuses for my belief or actions... i feel pity for ppl who do or follow religion out of fear rather then for knowledge and love or spiritual growth.. i also feel deep seeded hate for the arrogant and the proudly ignorant who flaunt it as a patch of honor..

i dont know all the answers or what is truth but i am willing to try to learn and stay open minded and spend my life having a good time looking.

I can't argue with that. I wish you didn't hate, because I believe it would be better for you, but I'm not judging you.

someone was asking if their were buddhist extremists
http://www.tamileelamnews.com/cgi-bin/news/exec/view.cgi/1/1557

you need hate you need anger.. it is what balances you out as a person.. i dont view it as a negative although many do and others try bury it or find some way of balancing it "walking the swords edge".

i found it in life doing such things can have just as much a negative impact on the person whether emotional or outwardly ppl taking advantage of you..

being nice constantly no matter what ppl do to you is not healthy dont get me wrong i can respect ppl like Ghandi, Jesus, Martin Luther King for what they believe in but, sometimes ppl need to do more then just be an example or turn the other cheek..

i am a fighter always bn i have always had anger issues even as a small child... i mastered it and eventually was kind hearted and i tried so hard to live like jesus and Shakyamuni... but i cant, not when i see a douche bag taking and taking and no one saying or doing anything out of fear or acceptance of that is the way it is....

being nice and kind hearted got me bullied by ppl that couldnt beat me even if they had a weapon in hand... i dont smile and accept ppl for being corrupt douche bags and think nice happy thought.. they want forgiveness and kindness go talk to your parents or religion. all you'll get from me is a FU and a hospital trip if you did me dirty.

it may not be what jesus and bhudda would want but it is something i am willing to sacrifice then let them do it to others. my personal beliefs shouldnt effect how others live or place others in danger i am just doing them a service..

Hate and being nice are not opposites. I believe that hate is like taking a poison to try and hurt someone else. All it does is make you sick. However, you should not tolerate douche bags. Simply deliver their Karma, but do not hate them. The reason for this is they might "see the light" and stop being a douche bag. If you hate them, then you might not see this change.

Do you think I'm always nice? Sometimes I deliver, but I do not hate.

i hate b/c i bn hurt repeatedly and i found that i was hurt b/c i didn't show anger and disapproval or willingness to retaliate.

emotionally at times had bn traumatizing b/c it was from ppl i thought i loved...

i don't walk around constantly angry and hating.. i crack jokes, smile and constantly try to seduce women. my hate rises to meet certain situations.. it helps me protect myself emotionally from the worst and to also rev myself up for whatever comes next usually an @$$ whoopin...

now will i spend my whole life and time hating someone? no.. doesn't mean i have to accept them even if they change. if they change good.. what, i should give them flowers for not lying, stealing, bullying or having affairs anymore? f@%^ them and whatever horse they rode on.. if it was up to me and gotten away with i kill em.. its one of the things that has stop me in past from finishing certain beating to their logical conclusions....

bye the way ur making me relive things i would soon rather forget..

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
...

bye the way ur making me relive things i would soon rather forget..



Sorry, I did not mean to cause you pain.

if you sincerely mean that then i appreciate ur apology but, it is also not needed nor did you have to apologize for something you had no control or idea over.

it is what it is.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xahbk_jarhead-sex-tape_life

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
if you sincerely mean that then i appreciate ur apology but, it is also not needed nor did you have to apologize for something you had no control or idea over.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xahbk_jarhead-sex-tape_life

I consider you to be a friend.

Originally posted by mindbomb
someone was asking if their were buddhist extremists
http://www.tamileelamnews.com/cgi-bin/news/exec/view.cgi/1/1557 sounds like my kinda monk wonder what scripture they are reading from..

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Bugs Bunny would get into an argument with the bad guy. Then he would flip the argument in mid stream, causing the bad guy to agree with Bugs. Bugs would then say "oh, you are right".
Lol, you did that on your own.

atheism has nothing to offer me either but its what i believe(for lack of a better word) in the end people should not believe because of what can and can not be offered but should believe because its what they think is correct

Originally posted by mindbomb
atheism has nothing to offer me either but its what i believe(for lack of a better word) in the end people should not believe because of what can and can not be offered but should believe because its what they think is correct
I agree.

Originally posted by mindbomb
atheism has nothing to offer me either but its what i believe(for lack of a better word) in the end people should not believe because of what can and can not be offered but should believe because its what they think is correct

But the context of the question was picking a religion, and as a religion, atheism has nothing to offer.

it may not have anything to offer but do you think it is correct is a more important question than what it offers

Originally posted by mindbomb
it may not have anything to offer but do you think it is correct is a more important question than what it offers

It all depends on what God is. If you are talking about the conventional meaning, then yes, but under a more archaic meaning, then no.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
It all depends on what God is. If you are talking about the conventional meaning, then yes, but under a more archaic meaning, then no.
The archaic meaning is "that thing that favors our tribe and will hurt the other ones".

i think even in an archaic meaning it still holds true if you dont truely think something is right than an "archaic god" would know

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Upset with the state of Christianity?

This strongly implies that the default state is to be Christian . . .

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
You're "spiritual, but not religious"? (Translation: The willingness to believe in any religion that doesn't involve Jesus)

Uh, no. Typically that means rejecting any organized religion.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Uh, no. Typically that means rejecting any organized religion.




yes but alot of "new age" people use it to mean they dont believe in jesus

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
This strongly implies that the default state is to be Christian . . .


For him it was, because he was raised it.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos

Uh, no. Typically that means rejecting any organized religion.

What mindbomb said. And for that matter, most American converts to Eastern religions.

Originally posted by mindbomb
yes but alot of "new age" people use it to mean they dont believe in jesus

99% of Christianity is an organized religion so that would be contained within the concept. If you're "spiritual but not religious" you don't believe in Jesus, God, Allah, Zeus, Xenu, Haruhi, Nana Buluku or any thing like that. Instead you appeal to "quantum woo" or the Gods of the Gaps or a nebulous concept of magic.

I've never heard anybody use "spiritual but not religious" unless they really had no beliefs besides wishy washy "there's a creative force in the universe" nonsense.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
What type of Buddhism is he, Mahayana or Theravada?
Vajrayana, actually.