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Please read the following article http://www.nationalgeographic.com/adventure/0603/features/peru.html and leave any comments you have on it here.

For me personally, this account by the writer of the article Kira Salak tells of a very profound experience, especially taking into account her (former, not sure if she still is?) atheism. I'm not quite sure what to think of the fact that the Shaman even interacted with the hallucinations of the patients in that he was able to jump into their hallucinations, seeing exactly what the others did, while they were having them and being able to guide them...how surreal and unexpected is that!? And what about the little snake that ended up in the vomit bucket apparently came out of Kira's body...things like this makes me question my reality indeed. This kind of exorcism by means of the Ayahuasca medicine and invoking the Amazon spirits seem very useful if it can cure illnesses of just about any kind...including the illness of ignorance and materialism/atheism(smart words for denial of personal responsibility) and indeed very real. Maybe this kind of experience of reality of being more than just a structure limited by our 5 senses nowadays appeal to me more than in the past, because I personally have been an atheist before, but lately have been unable to reclaim that old state of my mind. So I have tried unsuccessfully to go back to my previous comfortable, simplistic view of life as something very mortal and physical. And so I'm no thinking, if you can't fight it, join it, so maybe I will go on such a Shamanistic trip one of these days in order to heal myself permanently and to further more experience the heaven and hell within. This article touched me deeply as I now realize that I need to liberate myself through self-love and self-realization to experience the divine permanently and to come face to face with God.

What are your feelings on this?

Well, maybe the article cited above is a bit too lengthy for a quick read(definitely you are missing out on something very profound by not having read it). So here's another one on a different drug - also a hallucinogen, the more popular magic mushroom, or chemically known as psilocybin. In this case the subjects report greater happiness in their life after having taken the drug, even months afterward. Apparently it adds more meaning to your life and kills one's fear of death...

What do you think about it?

woot DMT

The way our culture views drugs is very unfortunate, as they do offer people profound mystic experiences. I don't feel it is anything more than that, and as it seems the writer is not entirely experienced with hallucinogens, the sense of someone 'comming in' and seeing what they saw, or feeling they saw a snake come out of them, are generally within the realm of possibilities from substances that can make you press your ear firmly to the ground in order to hear gravity.

Originally posted by Wonderer
Well, maybe the article cited above is a bit too lengthy for a quick read(definitely you are missing out on something very profound by not having read it). So here's another one on a different drug - also a hallucinogen, the more popular magic mushroom, or chemically known as psilocybin. In this case the subjects report greater happiness in their life after having taken the drug, even months afterward. Apparently it adds more meaning to your life and kills one's fear of death...

What do you think about it? Back in the day, 'shrooms were one of the tools I used for exploration. Yes, they can open your mind to some profound insights. I kept records of my trips. And the most profound insight the 'shrooms offered was this: 'You don't need us to know these things. We just make it easier.'

Originally posted by Wonderer
Please read the following article http://www.nationalgeographic.com/adventure/0603/features/peru.html and leave any comments you have on it here.

no

Originally posted by Wonderer
Well, maybe the article cited above is a bit too lengthy for a quick read(definitely you are missing out on something very profound by not having read it). So here's another one on a different drug - also a hallucinogen, the more popular magic mushroom, or chemically known as psilocybin. In this case the subjects report greater happiness in their life after having taken the drug, even months afterward. Apparently it adds more meaning to your life and kills one's fear of death...

What do you think about it?

That a chemical depenadance also makes you life much more miserable.

Originally posted by Ordo
That a chemical depenadance also makes you life much more miserable.

do you not think that some important experiences can be obtained through the use of drugs though?

is any drug use chemical dependance in your mind?

Originally posted by inimalist
do you not think that some important experiences can be obtained through the use of drugs though?

is any drug use chemical dependance in your mind?

No.

And no, but practically every drug leads to chemical dependance...as does eating, sex, etc.

Originally posted by Ordo
No.

really? have you ever used a powerful hallucinegen?

Originally posted by Ordo
And no, but practically every drug leads to chemical dependance...as does eating, sex, etc.

yes, but, even among professionals in addiction, hallucinegics are considered to have little if any abusive potential. It takes a really special type of person that can do that to their own psyche, and tolorance builds to them so quickly that abuse becomes physically difficult.

If it fires up your dopamine receptors in your nucleus accumbens, it has addictive potential.

People can abuse lots of things, from crack to frech fries. You're telling me that a drug that can make you see Jesus doesn't have the potential?

Originally posted by Ordo
If it fires up your dopamine receptors in your nucleus accumbens, it has addictive potential.

People can abuse lots of things, from crack to frech fries. You're telling me that a drug that can make you see Jesus doesn't have the potential?

no, just that statistically speaking, and in terms of mechanism (most hallucinogens are active in the seretonin channels in the thalamo-cortical pathway, as opposed to dopamine channels, which is what stimulants like coke and meth activate), french fries and tanning are much more likely to cause addiction.

Literally, there is essentially no addiction potential from LSD or DMT or other similar substances. Sure it can be abused, I had a friend that got way too much into LSD. But in terms of risk, it is extremely low.

Ritualistic use of DMT for spiritualism is not going to produce anything close to that, unless you are doing this daily... and even then, its going to be much more habitual then chemical.

Its not the drug itself but the effects of the experience that alter the chemsity and yes, result in both tolerance and chemical dependancy.

The withdrawl of Jesus is the problem.

Originally posted by Ordo
Its not the drug itself but the effects of the experience that alter the chemsity and yes, result in both tolerance and chemical dependancy.

no, and I'm not saying its impossible

however, and you can look up research that has been published in the lancet on the matter, given the physiological mechanisms and subjective effects of the drug itself, it is generally considered that the substances themselves pose no real world, as opposed to theoretical, potential for abuse.

Originally posted by Ordo
The withdrawl of Jesus is the problem.

so I take it you have never taken DMT or anything similar?

Gonna admit, I didnt read the article, but I find the topic interesting

For some reason I haven't really "broken through" on the couple of occasions I tried DMT. I got mild visual and mental changes but nothing that took me out of my reality, and it only lasted a few minutes. So I cant really speak to its power or intensity. But I feel that while it surely can be very profound, I don't believe that there is anything supernatural occuring with its use.

My first mushroom experience had a beautifully positive impact on me. I gained some important personal insight and a sense of optimism that I carried with me long after the trip was over.

Overall, I do strongly believe that drugs can have a positive influence on a person. They can definitely have terrible consequences as well, but hallucinogens in particular are very safe and have a very, very low chance for dependence. So yeah, go hallucinogens.

Inimalist, do you have any experience with the 2c-x drugs, aka research chemicals?

Originally posted by RedAlertv2
Inimalist,

the "I" is not capitalized, inimalist

Originally posted by RedAlertv2
do you have any experience with the 2c-x drugs, aka research chemicals?

no

Originally posted by RedAlertv2
My first mushroom experience had a beautifully positive impact on me. I gained some important personal insight and a sense of optimism that I carried with me long after the trip was over.

Overall, I do strongly believe that drugs can have a positive influence on a person. They can definitely have terrible consequences as well, but hallucinogens in particular are very safe and have a very, very low chance for dependence. So yeah, go hallucinogens.
I think the key to ensuring a positive experience is preparation: emotionally, mentally, even physically. The grad-school semester I was living with a dealer allowed me to take a trip nearly every weekend, most of which I did alone (people/talking can be so distracting). Not once did I have a bad experience. (The reasons I wasn't up-up-and-away more frequently was because 1. I had real-world responsibilities to tend to--this was part of my prep: I had nothing to worry about; 2. you build up a tolerance to 'shrooms very quickly, so expunge time was necessary; 3. the LSD trips were too much of a time committment to tie up every weekend with.)

It was also 'enlightening' comparing the drug experiences with those of meditation and lucid dreaming.

Originally posted by inimalist
the "I" is not capitalized, inimalist



no Ah, noted.

Fair enough, I haven't met many people who have. I had great times with 2C-I, it was kind of like LSD with a shorter duration and milder visuals. Amazing mental trip, and I always felt more sociable on it than on the classic hallucinogens, which was a nice perk.

Originally posted by Mindship
I think the key to ensuring a positive experience is preparation: emotionally, mentally, even physically. I definitely agree. I've never had a full on nightmare of a bad trip, but I've had a couple uncomfortable experiences, and it was always because I chose to trip when I was already feeling stressed, or having a bad day, etc. That first mushy trip was the one I took most care to be in the perfect environment, and it paid off.

Ive had an interest in lucid dreaming for a good long while but I haven't had much success with it. Its mildly irritating that my roommate can lucid dream at will almost every night, he was surprised to learn that not everyone can.

Originally posted by Mindship
I think the key to ensuring a positive experience is preparation: emotionally, mentally, even physically. The grad-school semester I was living with a dealer allowed me to take a trip nearly every weekend, most of which I did alone (people/talking can be so distracting). Not once did I have a bad experience. (The reasons I wasn't up-up-and-away more frequently was because 1. I had real-world responsibilities to tend to--this was part of my prep: I had nothing to worry about; 2. you build up a tolerance to 'shrooms very quickly, so expunge time was necessary; 3. the LSD trips were too much of a time committment to tie up every weekend with.)

It was also 'enlightening' comparing the drug experiences with those of meditation and lucid dreaming. I agree but my experience was with Sylvia. I always went into it with a meditation and questions. I was very opened minded to the experience and what I felt about it was that I was getting answers and I never had a bad experience. I've read that others have, but maybe that was because they weren't into the traditionial want of experiencing it.

My sense is that a lot of people -- especially the impulse-driven thrill-seekers -- try this stuff with no prep and unrealistic expectations, not to mention perhaps taking too high a dose right from the start.

It's not candy, it's not a toy, it's not a reason to toss common sense into the recycle bin...which many people seem to do anyway, even with ordinary, everyday activities. Obliviousness is rampant, and that's one of the things these drugs highlight.