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Any feats count for Barry. Both Wally and Barry have the Speed Force. Which team wins?

team flash..
Barry hold Surfer until Wally beat Thor and then they both beat Surfer..

Barry as the avatar of the speed force?

Team Flash

Team combo to KO FTW!

Speed Force is too cheap to beat! Go Team Flash!

Can't surfer go like the speed of light?He could be around their speed and he can definitely take more damage.

Surfer tp them in the vaccum of space. Team 2 for the stomp

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Can't surfer go like the speed of light?He could be around their speed and he can definitely take more damage.

im not sure about that but i do know the flash's can go beyond the speed of light.....i know wally can that is.....

Bary now >> Wally.
Team marvel goes down for a majority.
If classic Barry was used I can see Thor and Surfer winning

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Can't surfer go like the speed of light?He could be around their speed and he can definitely take more damage. barry can steal his speed afaik

Originally posted by Warlord
Barry as the avatar of the speed force?

yup.

Thor and surfer win. Surfer can resist his KE being absorbed and once he gets into the air they cant really touch him. omniblast ftw.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Surfer can resist his KE being absorbed no he can't!

Originally posted by Starscream M
no he can't!

heh. yes he can.

Originally posted by Naija boy
heh. yes he can. when did he resist getting his kinetic energy taken away?

Originally posted by Starscream M
when did he resist getting his kinetic energy taken away?

He is the best top tier energy manipulator in marvel and his resisted people attempting to drain him of his energy multiple times.

Originally posted by Naija boy
He is the best top tier energy manipulator in marvel and his resisted people attempting to drain him of his energy multiple times. ok, I ask again, when did Surfer resist having his kinetic energy removed?

Originally posted by Starscream M
ok, I ask again, when did Surfer resist having his kinetic energy removed?

The dude control the matter. And he his propelled via the power cosmic. He can travel at multiple, multiple time the speed of light, and can time travel.

In fact, there's more chance that Surfer drain the speed force that any Flash removes his kinetic energy. Which I think is impossible.

Originally posted by Starscream M
ok, I ask again, when did Surfer resist having his kinetic energy removed?

No one in marvel steals speed, hence i cant produce a scan of him resisting that exact attack. But there are instances of him resisting his bodily energies being drained. Since the KE drain is essentially the same sort of attack(an energy drain) then him resisitng his energies being drained is relevant evidence.

Originally posted by Naija boy
No one in marvel steals speed, hence i cant produce a scan of him resisting that exact attack. But there are instances of him resisting his bodily energies being drained. Since the KE drain is essentially the same sort of attack(an energy drain) then him resisitng his energies being drained is relevant evidence. kinetic energy is very different from what we normally think of as energy though. I don't think its comparable.

Originally posted by Starscream M
kinetic energy is very different from what we normally think of as energy though. I don't think its comparable.

Not sure why u think its not comparable. Surfers energy powers arise from control over the fundamental forces of the universe and. He has even resisted having his lifeforce/soul being drained and those arent what u would normally think of as energy either.

kinetic energy should be perceivable by the power cosmic, that's not even all that exotic a form of energy...

Barry and Wally have ran in space before, so Surfer flying won't be much of a hassle.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Barry and Wally have ran in space before, so Surfer flying won't be much of a hassle.

running a straight line would be quite different than 3d manuvering though...
not that they will need it if Barry is as powerful as his powerset these days implies

Originally posted by Warlord
running a straight line would be quite different than 3d manuvering though...
not that they will need it if Barry is as powerful as his powerset these days implies

I believe PC Barry didn't just run in a straight line.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
I believe PC Barry didn't just run in a straight line.

you'd say he could manuver like a casual flyer?
I haven't seen anything like that from a flash

anyway as I said he won't need it as the avatar of the sf

Originally posted by Warlord
you'd say he could manuver like a casual flyer?
I haven't seen anything like that from a flash

anyway as I said he won't need it as the avatar of the sf

Not fly, but maneuver like he was on earth. But, yeah, I think Barry would be too much for Surfer. Especially with the SF backing him. I'll try and find some scans.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Not fly, but maneuver like he was on earth. But, yeah, I think Barry would be too much for Surfer. Especially with the SF backing him. I'll try and find some scans.

if he could walk in space as he would on earth he will be still moving in 2D. anyway...I'd like to know some of current Bary's feats if possible since I haven't followed.

Surfer stomps, imo.

Originally posted by janus77
Surfer stomps, imo.

How does he stomp? If need, Barry would just go into the SF, where Surfer won't be able to touch him.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
How does he stomp? If need, Barry would just go into the SF, where Surfer won't be able to touch him.
simple, he's fast enough to tag them both, they're not durable enough to survive one of Surfer's attacks. it's a stomp also because the fight would last less than a pico second (three of the combatants being capable of going at it at 10000000000x the speed of light).


re hiding in the speed force, wouldn't that be self bfr?
also, what makes you think Surfer wouldn't be able to access it?

further, Surfer could just close the dimension off or dump them in the astral plane or the microverse or the hyperverse...

Uh, no. How fast is Surfer exactly?

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Uh, no. How fast is Surfer exactly?
yes, pretty much. he's billions of times faster than the speed of light.

Originally posted by janus77
yes, pretty much. he's billions of times faster than the speed of light.

Same with Barry. He raced from dimension to dimension in no time.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Same with Barry. He raced from dimension to dimension in no time.
you prove my point for me, Surfer's easily capable of matching them for speed and that is the ONLY thing they have of any use in this fight.

Surfer thus merely taps them and they're dead.

I think Wally or Barry could drain Surfer. I doubt Surfer can resist the full power of the Speed Force.

I know Surfer's easily resisted power-draining attacks from far superior foes (rival heralds!) and he is perfectly capable of draining their powers too. thus further fuel for the argument that Surfer stomps these two.

Barry is above herald class, IMO. If Superman couldn't tag him and beings who can kill others with a simple touch, Surfer won't. Remember, Barry is the avatar of the SF. He basically IS the SF. SF power > any heald, IMO.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Barry is above herald class, IMO. If Superman couldn't tag him and beings who can kill others with a simple touch, Surfer won't. Remember, Barry is the avatar of the SF. He basically IS the SF. SF power > any heald, IMO.
Surfer's speed and powers > superman. not even a question there.

if you think the speedforce > power cosmic, that's your prerogative. I see Surfer as being vastly superior to the Flash(es), by dint of the fact that he nullifies their one weapon (their speed) whilst retaining a plethora of outlandish advantages for himself.

You said Surfer with a tap, Superman couldn't handle barry and keep up with Wally and Superman is just as fast as Surfer. People forget how fast Pre-Crisis Superman was.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
You said Surfer with a tap, Superman couldn't handle barry and keep up with Wally and Superman is just as fast as Surfer. People forget how fast Pre-Crisis Superman was.
is superman billions of times faster than light?
from all the feats I've seen, Surfer is > the Flashes in speed, but I concede that they may be as fast as he is, it's difficult to tell... he's travelled a million lightyears in seconds.

what does Superman being unable to "handle" Barry have anything to do with? (did he land a punch on Barry? did he manage to land any attacks? does Barry not have human-levels of durability?)

Surfer can handle their attacks (should it come to an exchange of attacks) but they definitely cannot handle his... hence the "tap" comment.

Originally posted by janus77
is superman billions of times faster than light?
from all the feats I've seen, Surfer is > the Flashes in speed, but I concede that they may be as fast as he is, it's difficult to tell... he's travelled a million lightyears in seconds.

what does Superman being unable to "handle" Barry have anything to do with? (did he land a punch on Barry? did he manage to land any attacks? does Barry not have human-levels of durability?)

Surfer can handle their attacks (should it come to an exchange of attacks) but they definitely cannot handle his... hence the "tap" comment.

Are you questioning Superman's speed? Have you seen his PC feats? Like flying so fast, he ends up in heaven or streches space, or traverses the MULTIVERSE? Come on.

I have to agree Barry is on another level at the moment team one wins

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Are you questioning Superman's speed? Have you seen his PC feats? Like flying so fast, he ends up in heaven or streches space, or traverses the MULTIVERSE? Come on.
so why isn't Barry running into heaven or another multiverse if he's so much faster than PreC Superman? ignoring the fact that such depictions are unquantifiable, in terms of speed, DCU is perhaps ontologically different to MU, with different ways of separating out the various dimensions and universes...

regardless of the diversion down which you're taking this 'debate', the fact remains that Surfer is as fast as (at the least) the Flashes here (infact, by feats he might even trump them both). and he is vastly superior to them in every other aspect so it becomes a non-fight, when they come up against him.

Originally posted by janus77
so why isn't Barry running into heaven or another multiverse if he's so much faster than PreC Superman? ignoring the fact that such depictions are unquantifiable, in terms of speed, DCU is perhaps ontologically different to MU, with different ways of separating out the various dimensions and universes...

regardless of the diversion down which you're taking this 'debate', the fact remains that Surfer is as fast as (at the least) the Flashes here (infact, by feats he might even trump them both). and he is vastly superior to them in every other aspect so it becomes a non-fight, when they come up against him.

not really a fact when they have superior speed feats, though...