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Who wins?

Would two MJJs be able to defeat the Tribunal? No.

LT FTW.

Stalemate or Mike and Lucy win.

Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
Stalemate or Mike and Lucy win. Or LT wins.

LT wins.

Originally posted by Mindset
Or LT wins.

Nah..LT doesn't win. Best he can hope for is a stalemate.

Best Michael and Lucifer can hope for is a stalemate.

LT couldn't stop Thanos with the HOTI...I don't see how he could stop the Presence's incarnate power(Mike) and will(Lucy)...and at the same time no less.

Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
LT couldn't stop Thanos with the HOTI...I don't see how he could stop the Presence's incarnate power(Mike) and will(Lucy)...and at the same time no less. Thanos with the HOTI is stronger than Michael and Lucifer, I don't see how they can beat the TOAA's chief agent, LT.

Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
LT couldn't stop Thanos with the HOTI...I don't see how he could stop the Presence's incarnate power(Mike) and will(Lucy)...and at the same time no less.

Don't forget about Spectre and Radiant. Plus, featwise neither of them have done anything that can compete with Jasper's feats.

Imo, It's going to be hard for LT to win. These guys can bust universes with their combined power easily.

IMO, LT should win

Originally posted by Mindset
Thanos with the HOTI is stronger than Michael and Lucifer, I don't see how they can beat the TOAA's chief agent, LT.


Why not? Protege beat him?

Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
Why not? Protege beat him? No he didn't.

Protege would beat Michael and Lucifer.

Originally posted by Mindset
No he didn't.

Protege would beat Michael and Lucifer.


Might as well say he did...LT couldn't defeat him without Scathan's help. In other words, LT was powerless on his own.


Anyway, Protege would be cast out of heaven in the same manner that Michael cast out Spectre.

Lucy and Michael win for one reason:

Michael does the fighting, Lucifer does the scheming. And both Michael and LT lose.

LT and a group of angels managed to figure out how to defeat a group of idiots who took on some of The Presences powers. Brute force just wasn't cutting it, as they survived both Lucifer's hellfire and Michaels attacks. But they used some mystic voodoo to somehow depower/defeat them...

If Lucifer and Michael can't just beat Tribunal down, Michael should be able to buy Lucifer enough time to figure out how to stop him..

Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
Might as well say he did...LT couldn't defeat him without Scathan's help. In other words, LT was powerless on his own.


Anyway, Protege would be cast out of heaven in the same manner that Michael cast out Spectre. Except for Protege being stronger than Spectre as well as Michael and Lucifer.

Originally posted by Mindset
Except for Protege being stronger than Spectre as well as Michael and Lucifer.
He doesn't have the power to resist the Presence rule

Originally posted by Mindset
Except for Protege being STRONGER than Spectre as well as Michael and Lucifer.

Does Protege benchpress more than Spectre, Mike, and Lucy?

Originally posted by xJLxKing
He doesn't have the power to resist the Presence rule If the Presence is omnipotent, if he isn't, then he does.

Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
Does Protege benchpress more than Spectre, Mike, and Lucy? If he wants to.

I'm not sure if you're joking or not, the word strong describes more than just physical strength. I'll assume you're joking though.

The Presence isn't omnipotent. He is surpassed by a being that is not even omniscient.

Like

Kyle

Originally posted by Mindset
If he wants to.

I'm not sure if you're joking or not, the word strong describes more than just physical strength. I'll assume you're joking though.


Yeah, I was just trolling you..lol.


But, I do think Mike and Lucy win. We'll just have to agree to disagree on that issue.

That's different. His gay, so he gets an automatic win

Originally posted by xJLxKing
That's different. His gay, so he gets an automatic win Always supporting your people.

Admirable.

Originally posted by Mindset
Always supporting your people.

Admirable.
Lmao, I support Green Lanterns

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Like

Primal Monitor. "god" Swamp Thing.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
The Presence isn't omnipotent. He is surpassed by a being that is not even omniscient.


No on panel proof of that yet. For all we know, the Presence could've created the PM....and yes, the Presence could be supreme over all realities in DC...outside that "germ".

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Primal Monitor. "god" Swamp Thing.
PM=Omnipotent(but higher level) like how IG makes you omnipotent, but it still loses to LT.

God Swamp had the power to try and replace The Presence, but it's an assumption, not a fact

Presence is Omnipotent within the DCU, Primal Monitor (according to my view) is outside of the DCU proper and thus on another level entirely. Either that or they're the same being.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
PM=Omnipotent(but higher level) like how IG makes you omnipotent, but it still loses to LT.

God Swamp had the power to try and replace The Presence, but it's an assumption, not a fact

So, the Presence isn't completely omnipotent, thus less powerful than THOTI and less powerful than Beyonder and again less powerful than Protege.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Presence is Omnipotent within the DCU, Primal Monitor (according to my view) is outside of the DCU proper and thus on another level entirely. Either that or they're the same being.

An omnipotent being has no limits. For example, if I am 100% omnipotent then I can easily make anyone and everyone omnipotent.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
An omnipotent being has no limits. For example, if I am 100% omnipotent then I can easily make anyone and everyone omnipotent.
Everyone in comics is limited. That much you must know.

Only the writer has no limits. The Presence is omnipotent, but PM is on another level. The same way, Mandrakk, and CA Superman are on another level.

The IG makes you omnipotent, but it still loses to LT who isn't? Why is that? IG makes you omnipotent, but it still is weaker then the HOTU. Why is that?

Because they don't make you completely omnipotent. They only make you omnipotent by word.

Originally posted by galactusischere
Because they don't make you completely omnipotent. They only make you omnipotent by word.
No, they do make you omnipotent just like they do in their description. The IG are all universal, so in their universe, they are omnipotent, but LT is on a whole new level, thus that rule doesn't apply, same goes for PM and the Presence. Just like Omega said, the Presence may be omnipotent in his DCU(as a whole), but PM is on another level

I love this bastardization of the word omnipotent.

lucifer is considered the second most powerful being in existnace on panel.
that puts him above the likes of mxy,bat mite, the spectre, the source,death ,the word, the voice, and every and anything in existace.

the presence is the mind of the primal monitor

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Take it up with Grant Morrison. *shrug* What did he say?

PM was portrayed as entity much greater than the DCU but PM is still a DCU character so his influence is restrained within it.

Kinda like how Pre-Rec Beyonder was portrayed was greater than MU.

The same rule holds from the TOAA he can't be above the Marvel medium because its' impossible.

Originally posted by kgkg
What did he say?

PM was portrayed as entity much greater than the DCU but PM is still a DCU character so his influence is restrained within it.

Kinda like how Pre-Rec Beyonder was portrayed was greater than MU.

The same rule holds from the TOAA he can't be above the Marvel medium because its' impossible.
Its a matter of perspective. If you try and treat fiction so empirically (especially comic book fiction) you're going to run into trouble.

It's a stupid oxymoron to begin with. The PM is supposedly greater than all of DC...yet a DC writer will control his actions on panel.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
lucifer is considered the second most powerful being in existnace on panel.
that puts him above the likes of mxy,bat mite, the spectre, the source,death ,the word, the voice, and every and anything in existace. Wrong

Fun fact, the Primal Monitor failed to destroy the DCU.

Originally posted by Mindset
I love this bastardization of the word omnipotent.
Unlike what you've learned in the OBD, there is no strict definition for the term.

And there are levels of omnipotence in Marvel, this has been confirmed on multiple accounts. If people want to recite the source material they shouldn't be criticized for it.

Originally posted by Astner


Unlike what you've learned in the OBD, there is no strict definition for the term.

And there are levels of omnipotence in Marvel, this has been confirmed on multiple accounts. If people want to recite the source material they shouldn't be criticized for it. I learned the definition of 'omnipotent' from the dictionary.

We are talking about DC, not Marvel.

Originally posted by Mindset
I learned the definition of 'omnipotent' from the dictionary.
So did I, it's synonymous with infinite power.

Originally posted by Mindset
We are talking about DC, not Marvel.
Then I have no idea.

Originally posted by Astner
Fun fact, the Primal Monitor failed to destroy the DCU.

When did he try?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
When did he try?
When he sent the Dark Monitor (Mandrakk) to destroy it.

Originally posted by Astner
When he sent the Dark Monitor (Mandrakk) to destroy it.
Fun Fact: that's not how it happened at all.

He sent a Monitor Probe to study Story (the DCU) which split into two. Half of that probe became Dax Novu who after discovering he could feed on the Bleed (story) and after he created the Monitors became corrupted by story and became Mandrakk. It was never the direct intention of the PM to destroy the DCU with Mandrakk.

Fun fact: Dax Novu wasthe son of the first monitor. Not THE first monitor.

Originally posted by Astner
When he sent the Dark Monitor (Mandrakk) to destroy it.
To observe it, not destroy it.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Fun fact: Dax Novu wasthe son of the first monitor. Not THE first monitor.
Nope. Dax Novu was one half of the original Monitor probe and the first Monitor. His son was Nix Uotan.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Nope. Dax Novu was one half of the original Monitor probe and the first Monitor. His son was Nix Uotan.

Actually, he speaks the truth...

Originally posted by galactusischere
Actually, he speaks the truth...
Monitor in that case likely either refers to the Primal Monitor or the original Monitor Probe that split into Novu and the Anti-Monitor (presumably). So he's still the first 'Monitor' where here Monitor refers to red-skinned humanoids who Monitor the Multiverse.