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Scenario One- Equivalent HF for both parties
Scenario Two- Normal HF for Wolverine.

One, I would give it to DS.

Two, Wolverine

Originally posted by carver9
One, I would give it to DS.

Two, Wolverine

sounds about right.

it depends on DS gear for both since bone clawed skeleton is still denser then a human and we have seen Slade ko'ed by a batkick to the back of the head.. b/c of this i think logan should be able to take more blunt force trauma in a h2h fight with similar hf.. also whose equivalent hf are we using logan's? b/c if its slade, logan will more then likely lose with what slade brings to battle in gear if its more then h2h..

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
it depends on DS gear for both since bone clawed skeleton is still denser then a human and we have seen Slade ko'ed by a batkick to the back of the head.. b/c of this i think logan should be able to take more blunt force trauma in a h2h fight with similar hf.. also whose equivalent hf are we using logan's? b/c if its slade, logan will more then likely lose with what slade brings to battle in gear if its more then h2h..

Yeah it depends on if Wolverine's healing factor is being lowered to Slade's or if Slade's is being boosted to Wolverine's. Slade's gear is enough to deal with someone with a healing factor on par with his own, but not so much when it is as fast as Wolverine's.

1. Not sure
2. Wolverine

DS
Wolvie.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Scenario One- Equivalent HF for both parties
Scenario Two- Normal HF for Wolverine. DS for both.

No need to kill, when he can KO him instead.

Originally posted by vansonbee
DS for both.

No need to kill, when he can KO him instead.
I would love to hear how DS is going to put down Wolverine who the superior fighter before in guts slade..........

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
it depends on DS gear for both since bone clawed skeleton is still denser then a human and we have seen Slade ko'ed by a batkick to the back of the head.. b/c of this i think logan should be able to take more blunt force trauma in a h2h fight with similar hf.. also whose equivalent hf are we using logan's? b/c if its slade, logan will more then likely lose with what slade brings to battle in gear if its more then h2h..
Wait now...you're counting getting dropped by a Bat-Kick to the back of the head as a low showing? Batman winded Solomon Grundy with a Bat-kick to the stomach. The Bat-Kick is pretty much accepted to be a Meta-Human level attack.
Originally posted by Battlehammer
I would love to hear how DS is going to put down Wolverine who the superior fighter before in guts slade..........
Superior fighter? That's debatable. In fact its so debatable that its full-on BS.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
I would love to hear how DS is going to put down Wolverine who the superior fighter before in guts slade..........

Kicking his ass, I'd imagine.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Wait now...you're counting getting dropped by a Bat-Kick to the back of the head as a low showing? Batman winded Solomon Grundy with a Bat-kick to the stomach. The Bat-Kick is pretty much accepted to be a Meta-Human level attack.

Superior fighter? That's debatable. In fact its so debatable that its full-on BS.
lol


It not really that debable look at each feats and it pretty obvious who the more skilled. There a reason Batman , NW ect can give DS problems. It becuase of there skills, and they aint more skilled then Wolverine. Plus you saw what dead shot did to deathstroke

Healing factor doesn't really make a difference. DS has proven himself time and again vs. the JLA and the Titans. Can anyone honestly say that Logan would last against Starfire, Beast boy, Nightwing, Raven, Wondergirl and Cyborg? I'm not entirely sure that he could beat Plastic Man 10/10.
DS 9/10

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Kicking his ass, I'd imagine.
How does he accomplish this?

Originally posted by Battlehammer
lol


It not really that debable look at each feats and it pretty obvious who the more skilled. There a reason Batman , NW ect can give DS problems. It becuase of there skills, and they aint more skilled then Wolverine. Plus you saw what dead shot did to deathstroke
Umm...actually Batman and NW are more skilled than Wolverine. A good deal more skilled.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
How does he accomplish this?

Defeating him in combat. Kinda self explanatory, imo.

Originally posted by tsscls
Healing factor doesn't really make a difference. DS has proven himself time and again vs. the JLA and the Titans. Can anyone honestly say that Logan would last against Starfire, Beast boy, Nightwing, Raven, Wondergirl and Cyborg? I'm not entirely sure that he could beat Plastic Man 10/10.
DS 9/10
are you kidding me? you do realize teams job right? Or did you not notice DS has fits dealing with members of the titians like NW by him self..........


Wolverine taken on entire teams of alpha flight and the x-men and gen x.........any of which would rape DS.

your logic is flawed and simply silly.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
lol


It not really that debable look at each feats and it pretty obvious who the more skilled. There a reason Batman , NW ect can give DS problems. It becuase of there skills, and they aint more skilled then Wolverine. Plus you saw what dead shot did to deathstroke

You DOUBT the Batkick?!?
I haven't been around here in awhile. They must have fired Bada.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Defeating him in combat. Kinda self explanatory, imo.
How does he accomplish this when wolverine a betetr fighter, better trained, mroe experiences, cna match slade physically oh and has vastly superior damage soak.

yea but slade wins right

Originally posted by Battlehammer
are you kidding me? you do realize teams job right? Or did you not notice DS has fits dealing with members of the titians like NW by him self..........


Wolverine taken on entire teams of alpha flight and the x-men and gen x.........any of which would rape DS.

your logic is flawed and simply silly.

LOL and no one jobs to Wolverine, amirite?

Originally posted by Battlehammer
are you kidding me? you do realize teams job right? Or did you not notice DS has fits dealing with members of the titians like NW by him self..........


Wolverine taken on entire teams of alpha flight and the x-men and gen x.........any of which would rape DS.

your logic is flawed and simply silly.
He's taken them on because of his powers, not because of his skill. He can't fight guys like Ulik because he's some Karate Kid-type Badass Martial Artist, its because of his HF, claws, and Adamantium skeleton (which he doesn't have here).

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Umm...actually Batman and NW are more skilled than Wolverine. A good deal more skilled.
No there not, you are extremely mistaken.

NW being more skilled that just ignorant

Originally posted by Battlehammer
slade wins right

Originally posted by Battlehammer
are you kidding me? you do realize teams job right? Or did you not notice DS has fits dealing with members of the titians like NW by him self..........


Wolverine taken on entire teams of alpha flight and the x-men and gen x.........any of which would rape DS.

your logic is flawed and simply silly.

DS took apart the titans by himself. Not posting scans. Try Googling '80's, Teen Titans and Wolfman.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
He's taken them on because of his powers, not because of his skill. He can't fight guys like Ulik because he's some Karate Kid-type Badass Martial Artist, its because of his HF, claws, and Adamantium skeleton (which he doesn't have here).
actaully he beaten on teams of x-men becuase of his skills more so then powers. He used his knolwedge of them and surounds to take them on. Hell when he fought Alpha flight eh got hit onces...........


so no you be mistaken. hell when he took Gen x he did not even get hit.

also we talking about fighting teams not hevay hitters which Logan has down with out his adamatium several times.

Originally posted by tsscls
DS took apart the titans by himself. Not posting scans. Try Googling '80's, Teen Titans and Wolfman.

Edit:
By himself one at a time.

Originally posted by tsscls
DS took apart the titans by himself. Not posting scans. Try Googling '80's, Teen Titans and Wolfman.
I seen the scan, wolverine taken on and down teams of x-men, alpha flight, russia version of avengers. all thats mean is teams jobs it terribly bad evidence to uses in a vs match.

yea wolverine did it by him self also.......

Originally posted by Battlehammer
hevay hitters which Logan has down with out his adamatium several times.
But with plenty of PIS. Amirite? vin

Deadpool has beaten Logan on more than one occasion. Deadpool is Marvel's take on DS. Take from that what you will.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank

so you have no real rguement?

Originally posted by tsscls
Deadpool has beaten Logan on more than one occasion. Deadpool is Marvel's take on DS. Take from that what you will.
actaully he one due to circumstances such as one sided prep and wolverine did not have workuing healing factor. He also been dropped by wolverine, and DP damage soak is about 100 times DS

Originally posted by Omega Vision
But with plenty of PIS. Amirite? vin
no more PIS then the shit DS does. not surprised you call pis though given some of you complete lack of knolwedge of wolverine.


still laughing my ass off that you think NW is more skille dthen wolverine let a lone a greta deal more skilled, becuase I love to watch you try and prove it lol

Originally posted by Battlehammer
I seen the scan, wolverine taken on and down teams of x-men, alpha flight, russia version of avengers. all thats mean is teams jobs it terribly bad evidence to uses in a vs match.

yea wolverine did it by him self also.......

I'm still pissed about the batkick comment. You really riled my feathers with that one, sir!

Originally posted by Battlehammer
no more PIS then the shit DS does. not surprised you call pis though given some of you complete lack of knolwedge of wolverine.


still laughing my ass off that you think NW is more skille dthen wolverine let a lone a greta deal more skilled, becuase I love to watch you try and prove it lol
It is difficult to divorce Wolverine's "skill" from his superhuman physical stats. Taken down to human level Logan would get his ass dropped by Dick or Bruce.

honestly who the **** has NW even beaten through skill that makes you think He "greta deal more skilled then wolverine" omega vission?

Originally posted by Battlehammer
actaully he one due to circumstances such as one sided prep and wolverine did not have workuing healing factor. He also been dropped by wolverine, and DP damage soak is about 100 times DS
Sometimes his damage soak is that much more when facing Logan, sometimes not. Look at the DP respect thread. DP held his own with Hulk with a damaged HF.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
It is difficult to divorce Wolverine's "skill" from his superhuman physical stats. Taken down to human level Logan would get his ass dropped by Dick or Bruce.
Not at all, becuase he fighting other meta.


You have zero evidences for your believe that batman and NW are more skilled let a lone greta deal more skilled.

lets go over Logan win list shall we, he pwned shang-chi, pwned DD, almost killed a guy who raped IF, gave Capt a blood clot, had advantage over stick in a fight, beat down an uber tier MA ect.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Not at all, becuase he fighting other meta.


You have zero evidences for your believe that batman and NW are more skilled let a lone greta deal more skilled.

lets go over Logan win list shall we, he pwned shang-chi, pwned DD, almost killed a guy who raped IF, gave Capt a blood clot, had advantage over stick in a fight, beat down an uber tier MA ect.

Once again, DS has destroyed the Titans one at a time and as a team. He's also pwned the JLA. Has Logan pwned the Avengers single handedly?

Originally posted by tsscls
Once again, DS has destroyed the Titans one at a time and as a team. He's also pwned the JLA. Has Logan pwned the Avengers single handedly?
Again DS has repeatedly had tones of toruble one on one with titans. It does s well when ther ea team becuase they job which is easy as hell to see.

again wolverine done the saem thing he worked teams of x-men and alpha flight.

teams job wtf dont you get?

Originally posted by Battlehammer
again wolverine done the saem thing he worked teams of x-men and alpha flight.

See below.

A valid question. vin

Originally posted by Omega Vision
See below.

A valid question. vin
see I understand they job which is why I don't like DC fanboys try and uses character taking on teams as evidence to begin an arguement. I am simply using it to counter DS arguement that he taken on team= he owns all BS.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
see I understand they job which is why I don't like DC fanboys try and uses character taking on teams as evidence to begin an arguement. I am simply using it to counter DS arguement that he taken on team= he owns all BS.
But you do use low showings of DS to try to lowball him.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Again DS has repeatedly had tones of toruble one on one with titans. It does s well when ther ea team becuase they job which is easy as hell to see.

again wolverine done the saem thing he worked teams of x-men and alpha flight.

teams job wtf dont you get?

Once again. DS has taken down the Titans, one at a time. That is, not as a team. He has ALSO fared well against the JLA, one at a time. If you're not getting this, that's not as a team. He's also done well when he took them on as a team.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
But you do use low showings of DS to try to lowball him.
not trying to uses low showings, but trying to pretend that him beating on a few teams is anymore then teams jobbing is luaghable. Wolveirne taken it to jsut as many teams, but you dont see wolverine fans bringing that crap up everytime he coems in a thread.

becuase DS has taken a few teams does in no way equate to him beating wolverine or anyone else for that matter one on one.

teams job it a fact.

also this is fresh coming from the individual who believes NW is a great deal more skilled then wolverien with zero evidence proving this

Originally posted by tsscls
Once again. DS has taken down the Titans, one at a time. That is, not as a team. He has ALSO fared well against the JLA, one at a time. If you're not getting this, that's not as a team. He's also done well when he took them on as a team.
He never fairs anywere near as well which si what you dont get. The teams job, when he fights them one on one like NW for example they give him a hand ful.

yes but not nearly as well, he has fits from them one on one, so bringing him taking on a team is irrelevent, becuase teams job.

also can you actaul make an arguement for why he wins other then he faces the titans and once beat the jsla because this is just stupid.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
see I understand they job which is why I don't like DC fanboys try and uses character taking on teams as evidence to begin an arguement. I am simply using it to counter DS arguement that he taken on team= he owns all BS.

Also, I'm not a DC fanboy, and I really like Logan more than I like DS. I've always thought that DS was a pretty 1-d character when juxtaposed to Wolverine. (i.e. DS is a soldier who was experimented on by the Gov. as Wolverine is pratically immortal who lived several lifetimes before being experimented on by the gov and subsequently lost his memories and lived a couple of lifetimes after that.) Maybe you're the fanboy. I still think that DS would take the majority vs. Logan because, as he has been consistently written, he's a much better strategist and far more intelligent.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
He never fairs anywere near as well which si what you dont get. The teams job, when he fights them one on one like NW for example they give him a hand ful.

yes but not nearly as well, he has fits from them one on one, so bringing him taking on a team is irrelevent, becuase teams job.

also can you actaul make an arguement for why he wins other then he faces the titans and once beat the jsla because this is just stupid.

He beat all of the Titans one on one. Not as a team.

Originally posted by tsscls
He beat all of the Titans one on one. Not as a team.
when has he ever fought cyborge in one on one please I love the issue number. oh and when he fought super boy as well one on one. I mean strictly one on one.

it not even about beating them it about level of ease, I dont think you get what I am saying at all.

also you have yet to give a single reason for why DS wins the majority.

Wolverine win in my opinion because he superior fighter, more experienced, better trained, more stamina, and vastly more damage soak.

So Wolverine will be landing the more damaging attacks while have the ability to tank vastly moore hits.....and yet he losses becuase?

Christ.

If you where to chart the top DC and Marvel MAs the lists would intersect at Batman and Daredevil. Above them you have Richard Dragon on the DC side and Shang-Chi on the Marvel side (obviously Shang-Chi is superior but just go with it). Wolverine is higher still. He is a few rungs up the MA later above Batman. Now, obviously there are many other MA's who would be on this thearitcal list, but I'm keeping it limited for the sake of this discussion to make things clear.

Outside of the "Old Masters," Wolverine is considered one of the top three (if not the top), skilled Martial Artists on Marvel Earth. Batman doesn't make even make the top 5 in DC, and the people at the top of that chart aren't parallel with the tops of the Marvel chart. In terms of skill, Marvels streets are - generally - better. Same with the Old Masters. Obviously some incarnations of Karate Kid are hands down at the top of the heap but, other than that the scale generally leans more towards the Marvel side.

Deathstroke is prep genius. Thats how he beats teams. He might even be more tactical and resourceful than even Batman. No one is going to suggest that with prep Slade couldn't find a way to take down Logan, but standard gear he doesn't stand a shot in hell. Physically the two are virtually mirror images of each other (Wolverine being slightly stronger), but Logan is exceedingly more skilled and has much higher damage soak and healing factor.

^ oh snaaap!

srank done did it now...

Batman is definitely in the top 5. He knows practically every art and DC has the 2 best MA's in history. Then you have a meta like Jin Si, who is the spirit of Martial arts. DC is just as good as Marvel.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
^ oh snaaap!

srank done did it now...

Not really.

I've seen his arguments on inter-company martial arts prowess before, and they're lulz-worthy at best.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Batman is definitely in the top 5. He knows practically every art and DC has the 2 best MA's in history. Then you have a meta like Jin Si, who is the spirit of Martial arts. DC is just as good as Marvel.

Without getting into the order Drako, Dragon, Shiva, Cass, Hawke and Bronze Tiger are all superior fighters. I don't count the "Old Masters" like I Ching, O Sensie, and Sensie or Jin Si primarily because it gets confusing (and in the DC case, the Old Masters haven't done much) but they are all superior as well.

I don't see BT being more superior now. He did beat Batman before but that was a long time ago, before Batman has even mastered every combat. Daken? How are you measuring this? How would you measure Shang as more skilled in HTH than say Dragon?

Originally posted by batdude123
Not really.

I've seen his arguments on inter-company martial arts prowess before, and they're lulz-worthy at best.

Translation: Batdude is buttsore that Captain America > Batman in terms of skill.

I know a lot of people like to make the assumption for whatever reason that Captain America and Batman are equal in terms of h2h, but that just isn't the case. First off Captain America has been stated as being a master of every know Martial Art style on Earth, on panel. Batman has not. Simple enough, but that isn't all. Both Wolverine and Captain America are established as being superior to Shang-Chi, confirmed by Shang-Chi and Shang-Chi's villains in Caps case and demonstrated in Wolverine's case by him beating Shang-Chi in three panels. Shang-Chi's exploits are virtually a mirror image of those Richard Dragon, only much more numerous and with sprinklings of uber insane feats Dragon couldn't even dream off. Richard Dragon = Shang-Chi. Richard Dragon > Batman. Shang-Chi > Batman. Wolverine > Shang-Chi.

In terms of skill Batman = Daredevil (more or less but close enough), and in Marvel there are a lot of characters more skilled than Daredevil.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Christ.

If you where to chart the top DC and Marvel MAs the lists would intersect at Batman and Daredevil. Above them you have Richard Dragon on the DC side and Shang-Chi on the Marvel side (obviously Shang-Chi is superior but just go with it). Wolverine is higher still. He is a few rungs up the MA later above Batman. Now, obviously there are many other MA's who would be on this thearitcal list, but I'm keeping it limited for the sake of this discussion to make things clear.

Outside of the "Old Masters," Wolverine is considered one of the top three (if not the top), skilled Martial Artists on Marvel Earth. Batman doesn't make even make the top 5 in DC, and the people at the top of that chart aren't parallel with the tops of the Marvel chart. In terms of skill, Marvels streets are - generally - better. Same with the Old Masters. Obviously some incarnations of Karate Kid are hands down at the top of the heap but, other than that the scale generally leans more towards the Marvel side.

Deathstroke is prep genius. Thats how he beats teams. He might even be more tactical and resourceful than even Batman. No one is going to suggest that with prep Slade couldn't find a way to take down Logan, but standard gear he doesn't stand a shot in hell. Physically the two are virtually mirror images of each other (Wolverine being slightly stronger), but Logan is exceedingly more skilled and has much higher damage soak and healing factor.

Who is the best martial artist in their respective universe is not at issue. Who would win in a fight between DS and Logan given two specific circumstances. DS is not only a prep-master, he's a master strategist. He has proven time and again that he can walk into a spontaneous battle, survey the situation, and take action to ensure he is the winner. Logan has proven that he is suceptible to manipulation during a battle, and I propose that any berzerker rage would play directly into DS's hands. As far as when he took down the Titans one by one, look up the "Judas Contract." It's a classic and you'll like it.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Translation: Batdude is buttsore that Captain America > Batman in terms of skill.

I know a lot of people like to make the assumption for whatever reason that Captain America and Batman are equal in terms of h2h, but that just isn't the case. First off Captain America has been stated as being a master of every know Martial Art style on Earth, on panel. Batman has not. Simple enough, but that isn't all. Both Wolverine and Captain America are established as being superior to Shang-Chi, confirmed by Shang-Chi and Shang-Chi's villains in Caps case and demonstrated in Wolverine's case by him beating Shang-Chi in three panels. Shang-Chi's exploits are virtually a mirror image of those Richard Dragon, only much more numerous and with sprinklings of uber insane feats Dragon couldn't even dream off. Richard Dragon = Shang-Chi. Richard Dragon > Batman. Shang-Chi > Batman. Wolverine > Shang-Chi.

In terms of skill Batman = Daredevil (more or less but close enough), and in Marvel there are a lot of characters more skilled than Daredevil.

Perhaps you should start another thread to argue this issue. You clearly feel very passionately about it.

Originally posted by tsscls
Who is the best martial artist in their respective universe is not at issue. Who would win in a fight between DS and Logan given two specific circumstances. DS is not only a prep-master, he's a master strategist. He has proven time and again that he can walk into a spontaneous battle, survey the situation, and take action to ensure he is the winner. Logan has proven that he is suceptible to manipulation during a battle, and I propose that any berzerker rage would play directly into DS's hands. As far as when he took down the Titans one by one, look up the "Judas Contract." It's a classic and you'll like it.

Someone else brought it up, I was clarifying.

Without prep Slade isn't that much of a threat. He's been beaten by Batman, Bronze Tiger, and Eddie Fryers; (lol) stalemated by Deadshot (twice), and Azrael; even Nightwing has managed to give him pause. Wolverine simply outclases Slade, without prep it just isn't much of a fight.

And a berserker Wolverine is no advantage for Deathstroke. B-Rage Wolverine is better in every conceivable way, and would make short work of Deathstroke. Wolverine doesn't struggle to keep his rage in check because it makes him sloppy, he does it because it makes him a perfect killer who acts without compulsion and kills indiscriminately. Berserker Rage Wolverine would eat Deathstroke for breakfast.

ROFLMMFAO at Wolverine being Batman's superior in terms of skill or being in the Top 5 in Marvel.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Without prep Slade isn't that much of a threat.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank


Relatively speaking of course.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Relatively speaking of course.

Fair enough. I disagree, but I'll get over it.


Maybe. uhuh

Originally posted by batdude123
Not really.

I've seen his arguments on inter-company martial arts prowess before, and they're lulz-worthy at best. seems like a martial arts battlezone type thing should settle this, he seems to be calling someone(s) out

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Translation: Batdude is buttsore that Captain America > Batman in terms of skill.

facepalm

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I know a lot of people like to make the assumption for whatever reason that Captain America and Batman are equal in terms of h2h, but that just isn't the case. First off Captain America has been stated as being a master of every know Martial Art style on Earth, on panel. Batman has not.



http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batdmask.jpg

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batsecretfile1.jpg

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/det411.jpg

The rest of your post is nothing but ridiculously arbitrary ABC logic.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Translation: Batdude is buttsore that Captain America > Batman in terms of skill.

I know a lot of people like to make the assumption for whatever reason that Captain America and Batman are equal in terms of h2h, but that just isn't the case. First off Captain America has been stated as being a master of every know Martial Art style on Earth, on panel. Batman has not. Simple enough, but that isn't all. Both Wolverine and Captain America are established as being superior to Shang-Chi, confirmed by Shang-Chi and Shang-Chi's villains in Caps case and demonstrated in Wolverine's case by him beating Shang-Chi in three panels. Shang-Chi's exploits are virtually a mirror image of those Richard Dragon, only much more numerous and with sprinklings of uber insane feats Dragon couldn't even dream off. Richard Dragon = Shang-Chi. Richard Dragon > Batman. Shang-Chi > Batman. Wolverine > Shang-Chi.

In terms of skill Batman = Daredevil (more or less but close enough), and in Marvel there are a lot of characters more skilled than Daredevil.

Yeah, and Batman has said the same thing. BTW, just because you know every MA, doesn't mean you are necessarily better.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Yeah, and Batman has said the same thing. BTW, just because you know every MA, doesn't mean you are necessarily better.

Just ask Iron Fist and the Cat.

Originally posted by batdude123
facepalm





http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batdmask.jpg

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batsecretfile1.jpg

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/det411.jpg

The rest of your post is nothing but ridiculously arbitrary ABC logic.

One is non-cannon, one is a bio, but the third is fair game. I'd forgotten about that one.

Anyway ABC logic is the only way to come up with a Martial Artist hierarchy. Certainly it has more weight that simply stating "I think Batman is better," with out having anything to back it with. Its not like we are comparing apples and oranges either, all the street level heroes are pretty close to equal physically.

In the latest Kevin Smith series, Bruce sates that he KNOWS every violent art there is. Look at my SIG!

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
One is non-cannon, one is a bio, but the third is fair game. I'd forgotten about that one.

Anyway ABC logic is the only way to come up with a Martial Artist hierarchy. Certainly it has more weight that simply stating "I think Batman is better," with out having anything to back it with. Its not like we are comparing apples and oranges either, all the street level heroes are pretty close to equal physically.

K, I dig it that you have your opinion on the matter, but I simply disagree with it.

I have plenty of feats to back Batman's skills.

In any case, I also forgot to mention what Prep-Man was referring to in Batman: Cacophony, but you got my point. uhuh

Originally posted by Prep-Man
In the latest Kevin Smith series, Bruce sates that he KNOWS every violent art there is. Look at my SIG!

Yup but that isn't quite the same thing.

Anyway, facts remain the same. There is an established hierarchy of Martial Artists, in both Universes however lose they may be. Batman isn't as skilled as Shiva, or Richard Dragon. He has said so himself and it has been inferred by other characters as well. Bruce - while tremendously skilled - is not at the top of the heap. He isn't in the top 5.

Without getting into a lengthy process of explanation of who said what and who beat who, Captain America and Wolverine and at the top of the top 10 heap of Marvel Martial Artists (once again ignoring Marvel's Old Masters). Cap and Wolverine are more or less equal in terms of skill, Wolverine says he is better, so there is that, but I'm inclined to think they are about even. Wolverine is better than Shang-Chi. That makes him better than Batman. And Wolverine punking Shang-Chi in three panels is a more impressive skill feat than anything Batman has ever done... hell its a more impressive skill feat than most fighters have ever replicated.

Originally posted by batdude123
K, I dig it that you have your opinion on the matter, but I simply disagree with it.

I have plenty of feats to back Batman's skills.

In any case, I also forgot to mention what Prep-Man was referring to in Batman: Cacophony, but you got my point. uhuh

I thought it was Widening Gyre?

Top 5? He is. Like I said again, Bruce has come a long way since saying that he wasn't as skilled as Richard.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I thought it was Widening Gyre?

It is. Shows that he knows every MA.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I thought it was Widening Gyre?

You're right, I remembered incorrectly.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
ROFLMMFAO at Wolverine being Batman's superior in terms of skill or being in the Top 5 in Marvel.
that funny coming from you the guy who said NW not only more skilled then Wolverien but by a large amount........which is a vastly more rediculous statement.

......which makes that way you presented this very post to be absurd...........becuase your own statement early in this thread was far worse......


I think bat dude would agree with me on this, while it debatbale who more skilled wolverine or batman..........NW in no way in hell is more skilled then wolverine, let a lone be a large amount......

...just no no no no.....no.....that just ignorances of the top order......just no

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Top 5? He is. Like I said again, Bruce has come a long way since saying that he wasn't as skilled as Richard.

It's not as though Richard has been stagnate while Bruce has been advancing. I mean, Shiva is a much more skilled and dangerous fighter now than when she first met Bruce, or when she was hanging out with the Question. Yet, Richard Dragon edged her out when the last fought. Batman has commented that Shiva is better than he is, so has Nightwing, so has Shiva. You might not like it, but like I said there is an established hierarchy of Martial Artists in these universes, and Batman isn't in the top 5. Is he close? Sure. Is the gab small enough that he can close it with use of his standard equipment? Usually, or close enough anyway, but that doesn't change the fact that the gab in skill exists.

Originally posted by batdude123
You're right, I remembered incorrectly.

Final issue finally comes out.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
It's not as though Richard has been stagnate while Bruce has been advancing. I mean, Shiva is a much more skilled and dangerous fighter now than when she first met Bruce, or when she was hanging out with the Question. Yet, Richard Dragon edged her out when the last fought. Batman has commented that Shiva is better than he is, so has Nightwing, so has Shiva. You might not like it, but like I said there is an established hierarchy of Martial Artists in these universes, and Batman isn't in the top 5. Is he close? Sure. Is the gab small enough that he can close it with use of his standard equipment? Usually, or close enough anyway, but that doesn't change the fact that the gab in skill exists.

So who's in the top 5? Shiva, Dragon, ?? NOT including KK, since he's not on the planet.

I just can't rap my head around how people can still be so ignorant on wolverine that they make stupid assumptions that he far less skill then he really is or believe that making him go berserker will actaully help his opponent.........

I mean what more does he need to do? beat on a number of top tier MA's check, make them look stupid check, beat an uber tier MA check, rage shit stomp 2nd tier MA's check, take capt america out and give him a blood clot while not at 100% check.......

Originally posted by Battlehammer
that funny coming from you the guy who said NW not only more skilled then Wolverien but by a large amount........which is a vastly more rediculous statement.

......which makes that way you presented this very post to be absurd...........becuase your own statement early in this thread was far worse......


I think bat dude would agree with me on this, while it debatbale who more skilled wolverine or batman..........NW in no way in hell is more skilled then wolverine, let a lone be a large amount......

...just no no no no.....no.....that just ignorances of the top order......just no
I never said large amount, I said a good deal. As in if Logan were a normal human he'd get dropped by either of them rather soundly.

Again you fail to understand a very simple concept: comparing Logan's feats with a Peak human's feats is difficult because Logan is superhuman but if you were to take away all his superhuman stats he's really done little to show he's a Top 5 MA.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I never said large amount, I said a good deal. As in if Logan were a normal human he'd get dropped by either of them rather soundly.

Again you fail to understand a very simple concept: comparing Logan's feats with a Peak human's feats is difficult because Logan is superhuman but if you were to take away all his superhuman stats he's really done little to show he's a Top 5 MA.
Not based on pure skill they would not. You have zero evidence that NW is more skilled then wolverien Zero. There is plenty of evidence that wolverien is more skilled then NW however.

again this arguement is retarded. by this logic capt america, IF ect. any person who meta human powers can't be as skilled as human is the most rediculous arguement I have ever heard and it based off nothing.

Logan fights other highly skilled meta human and rage stomps them. Capt, shang-chi ogun ect. they all posses superhuman level abilities with top tier skill and he put them all down.

your arguement should be change to well I like NW better and have no arguement for him being more skilled so I simply pull though well wolverine superhuman so his feats simply arnt as good...dispite there being zero evidence of this......

Originally posted by Prep-Man
So who's in the top 5? Shiva, Dragon, ?? NOT including KK, since he's not on the planet.

Dragon
Shiva
Bronze Tiger
Cass (I am of the opinion that there is a large dose of CIS on Shiva's part in her encounters with Cass)
Connor Hawke


Also I would place Drakon at the top with a caveat. The one sided as kicking he put on Connor Hawke, easily gives him the number one spot, but as he has so few appearances it is possible he becomes shumck latter on. He could go the same route as KGBeast who beat the shit out of Batman the first time they fought but sucked in all subsequent appearances and incarnations. Once again, that isn't including any Old Masters.

I would say:

Shiva/Dragon (around the same)
Cass
BT/Batman
Connor

IMO.

Nightwing thinks Connor is more skilled than Bruce, and I'm inclined to agree.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
One is non-cannon, one is a bio, but the third is fair game. I'd forgotten about that one.

Anyway ABC logic is the only way to come up with a Martial Artist hierarchy. Certainly it has more weight that simply stating "I think Batman is better," with out having anything to back it with. Its not like we are comparing apples and oranges either, all the street level heroes are pretty close to equal physically.

I think Chuck Norris was better than Bruce Lee. ABC logic tells us to look towards their on screen and taped tournament feats. By looking at those, I decree that Chuck Norris was the better fighter.
He would disagree. Most people would disagree with me. Bruce Lee would disagree if he were still breathing. I'm assuming that when you're speaking of ABC logic, you're talking of known variables.

Originally posted by tsscls
I think Chuck Norris was better than Bruce Lee. ABC logic tells us to look towards their on screen and taped tournament feats. By looking at those, I decree that Chuck Norris was the better fighter.
He would disagree. Most people would disagree with me. Bruce Lee would disagree if he were still breathing. I'm assuming that when you're speaking of ABC logic, you're talking of known variables.
Anyway, this thread was about DS vs. Logan. I still say DS. If we give DS the Batkick, then FTW.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Nightwing thinks Connor is more skilled than Bruce, and I'm inclined to agree.

Nightwing isn't the be all end all and it's only one opinion. I don't see Connor standing up to Val like Bruce did, even if he was in a coma.

Originally posted by tsscls
I think Chuck Norris was better than Bruce Lee. ABC logic tells us to look towards their on screen and taped tournament feats. By looking at those, I decree that Chuck Norris was the better fighter.
He would disagree. Most people would disagree with me. Bruce Lee would disagree if he were still breathing. I'm assuming that when you're speaking of ABC logic, you're talking of known variables.

Chuck Norris would have beaten Bruce Lee, both in their prime. Mike Tyson would have beaten Ali, both in their prime. The legends of the men far out step their actual abilities. Also its a manor of respect for Chuck Norris to say Bruce Lee would beat him, its not like Chuck Norris is a UFC fighter who needs to talk about how big his dick and how the other guy is no match before every fight. He's a gentleman after all. Batman's ward saying that someone is more skilled than he is, is a different matter entirely.

i couldnt help myself.. have i told you guys i met the man?,,, he gave me his chi .. true story. i can answer who could actually win between him and bruce..

cmwokFKAr4k&feature=related

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
i couldnt help myself.. have i told you guys i met the man?,,, he gave me his chi .. true story. i can answer who could actually win between him and bruce..

What's more than 100%? That's how many times infinity that I stand corrected. Awesome+funny video. It could be ret-conned by a batkick, though.

Chuck Norris would lose to Bruce, because he knows he would lose. Simple.

Logan wins majority.

Didn't Norris and Lee actually spar together?

Originally posted by Prep-Man
I would say:

Shiva/Dragon (around the same)
Cass
BT/Batman
Connor

IMO.

I'd go:
Cass/Shiva/Dragon
BT/Batman
Black Canary/Connor Hawke

Cassandra has the feats for the number-one spot.



I'm convinced he's superhuman. He beat his foes in large part due to drastically outspeeding and outstrengthing them. And he did fairly impossible feats like pluck a dozen arrows from the air with his finger tips.

I would classify Drakon as "A superhuman who deciding to get really good at martial arts rather than purely rely on his abilities like most metas his levels do."

Originally posted by Q99
Didn't Norris and Lee actually spar together?

Pretty sure they did. Also pretty sure Lee whooped that ass.