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Who wins?

Oh man.... I see this thread starting a bloodlust....

Good fight.... I'm inclined to say Elektra as I imagine she's way tougher than Grifter... but I digress.

Originally posted by jinzin
Oh man.... I see this thread starting a bloodlust....

Good fight.... I'm inclined to say Elektra as I imagine she's way tougher than Grifter... but I digress.
I don't know. Most people here regard Elektra as pretty near street level and believe Midnighter curbstomps anyone below Apollo.

I think it's a good fight as well though.

Midnighter easily.

Originally posted by StyleTime
I don't know. Most people here regard Elektra as pretty near street level and believe Midnighter curbstomps anyone below Apollo.

I think it's a good fight as well though.

Jackson King can beat Midnighter. He's not on Apollo's level. Clock King can beat him too. Just because people are stupid doesn't mean Midnighter is street-level.

Well, idk.

Midnighter runs scenarios to predict Elektra's likely options. Elektra scans his mind to find out which course of action he's going to take to stop her. Then he processes a counter-measure in awareness of her telepathy, etc. etc.

Midnighter definitely has the strength and durability advantage, but Elektra's been down to take down metahumans just as he has.

Could go either way depending on who uses their powers better, but I'd give Midnighter the majority.

Midnighter's basically around Spider-man physically.

Elektra's superhuman, but a lot more minor. She might be able to assassinate him, but Elek is at a major disadvantage head on.

Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
Midnighter easily.

Originally posted by Q99
Midnighter's basically around Spider-man physically.



WHAT......THE.....F***?

Originally posted by Q99
Midnighter's basically around Spider-man physically.

Midnighter's power is the power to not lose fights.


Puffery aside I give him the definite edge here.

Originally posted by jinzin



WHAT......THE.....F***?

Somewhat less, but do you think superhuman's jaws fly off when punched by a peak human or minor superhuman? He takes on Jack Hawksmoor on an even level too.

Not as much agility or speed as Peter, but significant super strength and toughness. He's closer to webhead than Elektra.

Midnighter's feats don't always translate well, because he's not the summation of his feats as most characters are, he represents the ability to win a fight every time if it's at all possible.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Midnighter curbstomps anyone below Apollo.

False, but amusing.

Originally posted by Q99
Midnighter's basically around Spider-man physically.

Mostly false, but amusing. He's definitely on level with Spidey, but for different reasons than his raw physical stats. His speedster fight, despite most of it being done via his calculative abilities, does suggest reflexes on par with the best low metas, since all the calculations in the world couldn't have helped him move fast enough to hit a speedster before he reacted unless he was at that level physcially.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Midnighter's power is the power to not lose fights.

Amusing, and closer to the truth. Provided the person doesn't have powers/abilities/stats beyond his ability to counter them in any scenario. It's why he beats almost (almost, friends) any low meta, despite not being above them in most respects.


....

I know jack about Elektra, so I'm not taking a position on the fight. I just like debunking and/or commenting on characters I know stuff about, in a non-argumentative manner.

Originally posted by jinzin


Elektra's telepathy gets her only so far. He's quite capable of fighting without the battle computer.

Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
Elektra's telepathy gets her only so far. He's quite capable of fighting without the battle computer.

I think he just thinks you're underestimating E.

Besides, Jackson King's little tp trick would only work if she knew exactly where to target. Jackson knows exactly how MN'ers powers work. Elektra would not have such an advantage.

Originally posted by Digi
He's definitely on level with Spidey, but for different reasons than his raw physical stats.

This is partially true, *but* he without a doubt has both multi-ton strength and the ability to take hits from people with multi-ton strength (What's Jack at? Maybe class 10?) without suffering significant damage regularly.

He has reinforced bones ala Wolverine and a healing factor. He has greatly enhanced strength. He can punch out someone's ribcage and has even done so to people with super toughness.

Midnighter has the combat computer as his main power, but he is a minor brick even besides that. He's shown strength above the Deathstroke/Deadpool/etc. types.

Originally posted by Q99
This is partially true, *but* he without a doubt has both multi-ton strength and the ability to take hits from people with multi-ton strength (What's Jack at? Maybe class 10?) without suffering significant damage regularly.

He has reinforced bones ala Wolverine and a healing factor. He has greatly enhanced strength. He can punch out someone's ribcage and has even done so to people with super toughness.

Midnighter has the combat computer as his main power, but he is a minor brick even besides that. He's shown strength above the Deathstroke/Deadpool/etc. types.

WELL... Deathstroke DID get into a street (fist) fight with Starfire =p

Originally posted by Digi
I think he just thinks you're underestimating E.

Besides, Jackson King's little tp trick would only work if she knew exactly where to target. Jackson knows exactly how MN'ers powers work. Elektra would not have such an advantage.
Pretty much.. I find it amusing that he thinks it's EASY for midnighter.

I'm still inclined to think she can take him.

Elektra

Originally posted by Konton
WELL... Deathstroke DID get into a street (fist) fight with Starfire =p

Which is kinda odd, but he's also made clear in the past that he knows if she really got her hands on him she could kill him.



Deathstroke is really strong, but even he couldn't punch someone's jaw off or decapitate someone with a casual blow of a blunt instrument.

Excuse my spider-man comparison, but that's clear significant multi-ton strength.

Originally posted by Q99
Which is kinda odd, but he's also made clear in the past that he knows if she really got her hands on him she could kill him.



Deathstroke is really strong, but even he couldn't punch someone's jaw off or decapitate someone with a casual blow of a blunt instrument.

Excuse my spider-man comparison, but that's clear significant multi-ton strength.

not really... Cap's punched out heavy hitting bricks... He's not a multi ton lifter.. Midnighter needs to lift multi-tons to be a multi-ton lifter.

Originally posted by Q99
Which is kinda odd, but he's also made clear in the past that he knows if she really got her hands on him she could kill him.



Deathstroke is really strong, but even he couldn't punch someone's jaw off or decapitate someone with a casual blow of a blunt instrument.

Excuse my spider-man comparison, but that's clear significant multi-ton strength.

Yeah it was just funny to me because he got her on the ground with a bullet, they roughed eachother up, and this was all just a few issues after she was tanking asteroids thrown by Devilance

Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
Jackson King can beat Midnighter. He's not on Apollo's level. Clock King can beat him too. Just because people are stupid doesn't mean Midnighter is street-level.
I'm not sure if that was aimed at me or my joke, but I didn't claim Midnighter was street level or on Apollo's level.
Originally posted by Digi
False, but amusing.
I intended it to be. You may have mistaken my comparison for my own personal view of Midnighter's abilities, rather than a humorous poke at the esteem he commands around here; that's what I was aiming for anyway.

Of course, you could be commenting on the sentiment itself. It's hard to tell through the web.

Originally posted by jinzin
Pretty much.. I find it amusing that he thinks it's EASY for midnighter.

I'm still inclined to think she can take him.

I don't see Midnighter being hard pressed to beat her unless she can disable his connection to the battle computer.

Originally posted by StyleTime
I'm not sure if that was aimed at me or my joke, but I didn't claim Midnighter was street level or on Apollo's level.

Apologies.

Originally posted by Konton
Yeah it was just funny to me because he got her on the ground with a bullet, they roughed eachother up, and this was all just a few issues after she was tanking asteroids thrown by Devilance

Fear DS's aura. Fear it.

Originally posted by Q99
Which is kinda odd, but he's also made clear in the past that he knows if she really got her hands on him she could kill him.



Deathstroke is really strong, but even he couldn't punch someone's jaw off or decapitate someone with a casual blow of a blunt instrument.

Excuse my spider-man comparison, but that's clear significant multi-ton strength.

Deathstroke's strength is at estimation around class 2. That would mean he'd easily have the strength to punch someones jaw off or decapitate them with a blunt object. Him not doing it has more to do with him not existing in Wildstorm (where normal bullets make an Elephants head explode), than it does with his strength.

Originally posted by Q99
This is partially true, *but* he without a doubt has both multi-ton strength and the ability to take hits from people with multi-ton strength (What's Jack at? Maybe class 10?) without suffering significant damage regularly.

He has reinforced bones ala Wolverine and a healing factor. He has greatly enhanced strength. He can punch out someone's ribcage and has even done so to people with super toughness.

Midnighter has the combat computer as his main power, but he is a minor brick even besides that. He's shown strength above the Deathstroke/Deadpool/etc. types.

Jack's too variable to put at a definite level. He's highly contextual. Besides, SM's taken hits from Class 100's. Doesn't make him their physical equal.

Nothing he's done is definitively beyond about Class 2-3. So no, he's not on Spidey's raw physical level. His reflex feats also place him just below Spider-Man, though also not on level with him. He is, however, about the same level as Spidey overall but because of his calculative abilities.

Originally posted by StyleTime
I intended it to be. You may have mistaken my comparison for my own personal view of Midnighter's abilities, rather than a humorous poke at the esteem he commands around here; that's what I was aiming for anyway.

Of course, you could be commenting on the sentiment itself. It's hard to tell through the web.

Meh, you said he could take anyone below Apollo. I rightly called that false. If it was a joke or a deliberate embellishment, ok. Just trying to avoid overstatement of MN'ers abilities. He took Apollo on in closed quarters, away from the sun, and with some lopsided use of Carrier doors. Insane feat regardless, but he's not on par with Apollo in a neutral setting. Apollo has covered the entire moon with heat vision, among other uber feats. Much as I'm not a fan of Apollo personally, in a non-PIS setting he destroys MN'er in any scenario, combat computer or not.

Elektra wins a feat war, but it's very close, 6/10 either way. Question is would the fight likley go the way of Elektra & Gorgon. Replace Gorgons speed with Midnighters (already quite formidable speed) and battle computer helping him out. Skillwise, Elektra takes it, especially with her sais.
Damn good fight though

elektra

Mids wins the majority.

Originally posted by Juk3n
Elektra wins a feat war, but it's very close, 6/10 either way. Question is would the fight likley go the way of Elektra & Gorgon. Replace Gorgons speed with Midnighters (already quite formidable speed) and battle computer helping him out. Skillwise, Elektra takes it, especially with her sais.
Damn good fight though I wouldnt compare MN to Gorgon...

Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
Apologies.
No harm done.
Originally posted by Digi
Meh, you said he could take anyone below Apollo. I rightly called that false. If it was a joke or a deliberate embellishment, ok. Just trying to avoid overstatement of MN'ers abilities. He took Apollo on in closed quarters, away from the sun, and with some lopsided use of Carrier doors. Insane feat regardless, but he's not on par with Apollo in a neutral setting. Apollo has covered the entire moon with heat vision, among other uber feats. Much as I'm not a fan of Apollo personally, in a non-PIS setting he destroys MN'er in any scenario, combat computer or not.
Looks like we're on the same page now, so all is well.