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whos better of the two?

Mainstream Superman Vs Captain Marvel
KC Superman Vs KC Captain Marvel
PC Superman Vs PC Captain Marvel
Superman 1 million Vs Captain Marvel 1 million

Where is black adam compared to these guys.
even if its slightly, who is more powerful

Superman
Superman
Cm
Superman

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
whos better of the two?- Marvel

Mainstream Superman Vs Captain Marvel- Marvel 6/10
KC Superman Vs KC Captain Marvel- Marvel
PC Superman Vs PC Captain Marvel- Marvel
Superman 1 million Vs Captain Marvel 1 million- Superman

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Superman
Superman
Cm
Superman

Second all of these. The first one's the closest, but if Superman uses his ranged powers heavily he should win.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
whos better of the two?

Mainstream Superman Vs Captain Marvel
KC Superman Vs KC Captain Marvel
PC Superman Vs PC Captain Marvel
Superman 1 million Vs Captain Marvel 1 million

Where is black adam compared to these guys.
even if its slightly, who is more powerful

1. 50/50 if all out, CM if brawling only.
2. 50/50 if all out, CM if brawling only
3. CM.
4. Supes.

Captain Marvel 1 million was just standard Cap power levels. There wasn't any indication Billy gave anything more than his old abilities..

And Superman 1 mil is basically 60's Superman, for all his crazy powers.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
1. 50/50 if all out, CM if brawling only.
2. 50/50 if all out, CM if brawling only
3. CM.
4. Supes.

Anyways, the only one I think Supes has real trouble with is current versions, and that's because of the magic weakness. That weakness didn't exist pre crisis, so that's more of a 50/50 proposition..

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
whos better of the two?

Mainstream Superman Vs Captain Marvel
KC Superman Vs KC Captain Marvel
PC Superman Vs PC Captain Marvel
Superman 1 million Vs Captain Marvel 1 million

Where is black adam compared to these guys.
even if its slightly, who is more powerful

Well, as a rule, DC usually tends to show Superman and Captain Marvel to be equals and peers. Both of them have showings that place them over the other and have "wins" due to plot device or otherwise dubious circumstances.

how POwerfull was CM 1.000.000
I don't remmebr him at all...

Originally posted by Warlord
how POwerfull was CM 1.000.000
I don't remmebr him at all...

CM 1 mil was basically an average joe youth who couldn't afford one of those "Super power patches" of the era, who happened to uncover a dooway to the Rock of Eternity, where Billy, looking as old as Shazam, was resting. Billy gets rudely woken by excavators, and eventually decides to empower this young individual as his new champion.

The patches kind of make this new Captain Marvel less super than Superman 1 Mil though, since anyone who could afford a patch can get powers on the level of mainstream Supes.

One little glitch in Morrison's design: The Rock of Eternity exists in all time/space/dimensions, so an aged Billy living in the rock kind of contradicts that.

Superman in all.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Well, as a rule, DC usually tends to show Superman and Captain Marvel to be equals and peers. Both of them have showings that place them over the other and have "wins" due to plot device or otherwise dubious circumstances.

Mostly Superman does tend to do the "stick to brawling" thing in those fights, though. Sorta like Thor vs Hulk.

Originally posted by Q99
Mostly Superman does tend to do the "stick to brawling" thing in those fights, though. Sorta like Thor vs Hulk.

Yeah, Superman really shortchanges himself by playing to Captain Marvels strengths (Considering Billy "wants" Superman to brawl with him, and take advantage of the magic weakness..)

If he fought smart, there's lots of potential tactics he could try, like simply flying out of his range and using a telescopic/heat vision assault. Or maybe taking the fight in some dark place where Billy can't see, and Supes vision would give him an advantage..

Also, I'm pretty sure Cap and Adam don't have Supermans lung capacity, so he could simply knock them out of Earths orbit or into the ocean and hold them there until they suffocate...

Superman already beat CM in KC, so it should not be debated. Same goes for Superman 1 million. He already beat AS Superman, and CM1M is still the same dude. He loses easily.

PC Superman can beat CM but because of his weakness to Magic, he loses.

The only question is if Superman can beat the mainstream CM. IMO, he has better feats, and beat better opponents. He should win.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Superman already beat CM in KC, so it should not be debated.

Yeah, but that was because of the deus ex mechanica "Billy's lightning backfires on him" thing. Seriously, Billy should never, ever use the magic lightning as a weapon, because it ALWAYS goes badly for him...

Now Black Adam, he has it down to a science.. When he busts out the lightning, towering demons go down, Martain Manhunter loses, Spectre gets a hole punched through his head..

The "psycho crusher" he used on Spectre has to be the best use of magic lightning ever.

Anyways, the KC fight is debatable, on account of Billy only losing due to a stupid mistake.

No way CM could've beaten KC Superman without lightning, though. Superman got stronger while CM's magic is eternal and consistent.

Originally posted by Q99
No way CM could've beaten KC Superman without lightning, though. Superman got stronger while CM's magic is eternal and consistent.

Did it look like KC Superman was stronger than Marvel before using the lightning?

They looked as even as they always did to me. And besides, they used to be even before Death and Return of Superman, yet after Superman got his upgrade through Kryptonite X, he and Cap were still even. It seems no matter how powerful Superman gets, Cap gets "unofficial" upgrades to keep up, evening them out.

I thought he did. And KC Supes was taking those lightning blasts better than modern Supes does.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Superman already beat CM in KC, so it should not be debated.

What? What sort of stupid logic is this? Apparently beating someone by a technicality means it is inarguable that they win 10/10? Conveniently forgetting Spectre's words themselves, putting Captain Marvel as the 'only one who can counter his every move' in regards to Supes. Or Supes himself saying Marvel was 'the mightiest of us'.

Even if KC Supes had a legit ko win over KC Cap, it would still be 'arguable'. Especially if he was busted up in the process. It wouldn't mean he would win 10/10 if it was close. On the contrary, it would enforce the 50/50 thing, that they can trade wins on any given day.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
What? What sort of stupid logic is this? Apparently beating someone by a technicality means it is inarguable that they win 10/10? Conveniently forgetting Spectre's words themselves, putting Captain Marvel as the 'only one who can counter his every move' in regards to Supes. Or Supes himself saying Marvel was 'the mightiest of us'.

Even if KC Supes had a legit ko win over KC Cap, it would still be 'arguable'. Especially if he was busted up in the process. It wouldn't mean he would win 10/10 if it was close. On the contrary, it would enforce the 50/50 thing, that they can trade wins on any given day.
First of all, Superman always likes to makes people to be strong.
-Subjekt 17, he claims is stronger then him, yet he still kicks his ass
-CM, claims is mightier, yet he still kicks his ass
-John Johnz, Superman claims he is stronger then the entire JLA, yet, he loses to any opponent that Superman beats easily.

You can go around saying it's a technicality, but CM lost because he used his lighting and it wouldn't happen again and again. IF you had read KC, you'd realize that Superman was trying to talk some sense into CM without hurting him. Heck, even when Superman was not playing serious, he was still winning. CM had to rely on his Magical spell to try and save himself.


Originally posted by cdtm
Yeah, but that was because of the deus ex mechanica "Billy's lightning backfires on him" thing. Seriously, Billy should never, ever use the magic lightning as a weapon, because it ALWAYS goes badly for him...

Now Black Adam, he has it down to a science.. When he busts out the lightning, towering demons go down, Martain Manhunter loses, Spectre gets a hole punched through his head..

The "psycho crusher" he used on Spectre has to be the best use of magic lightning ever.

Anyways, the KC fight is debatable, on account of Billy only losing due to a stupid mistake.
Same for you. Why did he use the lighting? Because CM was losing, he was losing to a Superman who wasn't trying to kill him or anything, but rather talk sense into his flawed reasoning. With HV, Superman starting getting the upper hand easily. So yeah, without the lighting, CM still lost.

Just because KC Cap was "the only soldier that could match Superman move for move" doesn't mean he was equal to KC Superman.

Whereas Superman was stated to be stronger than ever thanks to continued solar absorption Cap was still the same Cap by all accounts. The fact that Superman took that many Shazams to the chest without going down and only suffering moderate damage is proof that he was >> to current Superman.

Superman was trying to reason with Cap while Cap was brainwashed and consequentially bloodlusted. If Superman had been bloodlusted the fight would have ended sooner in his favor.

naw he had to be stronger, regular superman got punched by hercules and busted up, where kc supes was unphased,
if captain marvel wasnt near his level then kc superman would of been unphased by any of his punches

Except their are magical.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
naw he had to be stronger, regular superman got punched by hercules and busted up, where kc supes was unphased,
if captain marvel wasnt near his level then kc superman would of been unphased by any of his punches
Captain Marvel bloodlusted without PIS could seriously damage Superman with a magic amped punch. I think one or two Shazams to the chest could KO current Superman or come close to it. With KC Superman he took a mess of them and only got annoyed and slightly bloodied.

Lets not forget that he hasn't fought since his wife died so..

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Except their are magical. hercules is magical too.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
hercules is magical too.
Sure...
Got proof?

Btw, what wins does CM have in a strait fight? I know when he's taken out Superman by suckerpunch, but I can't remember any win-wins (some draws, though).

erm whats KC. i dont dc as much as marvel...

Originally posted by Q99
Btw, what wins does CM have in a strait fight? I know when he's taken out Superman by suckerpunch, but I can't remember any win-wins (some draws, though).

I personally can't remember any clear victories from Supes, either.

Yeah, they are about even. But under forum rules, Superman has more stuff for support.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Sure...
Got proof? he suplies captain marvels strength

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
he suplies captain marvels strength
Totally different dude unless you have proof

DC Hercules isn't any more magic than Wonder Woman is. Superman can take shots from Wonder Woman just fine.

Originally posted by xJLxKing

Totally different dude unless you have proof same hercules

you seem to forget that all the olympions were split to 2
and cap got his powers from the split hercules half, and they have been merged back to normal.

Proof....

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Proof.... you want the scans of them splitting into two seperate beings then put back together?

i dont have them, some one here should though

So no proof that Hercules is magical? By your logic, WW is also magical

Originally posted by xJLxKing
So no proof that Hercules is magical? By your logic, WW is also magical forget the magical part.

So now you claim Hercules is not Magical?

Yea.

It's kinda interesting how WW has wins and losses while CM vs Supes is almost all draws.


Originally posted by Omega Vision
DC Hercules isn't any more magic than Wonder Woman is. Superman can take shots from Wonder Woman just fine.

Well she *is* magic, she's animated clay.

I think this would be better expressed as "DC Hercules doesn't have any more special magic effects to his blows than Wonder Woman does."

Originally posted by Q99
Yea.

It's kinda interesting how WW has wins and losses while CM vs Supes is almost all draws.




Well she *is* magic, she's animated clay.

I think this would be better expressed as "DC Hercules doesn't have any more special magic effects to his blows than Wonder Woman does."
Which is what I meant.

Originally posted by Q99
Yea.

It's kinda interesting how WW has wins and losses while CM vs Supes is almost all draws.

She has very little wins over Superman, usually ones that don't do squats when you compare the feats and other encounters they had.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
She has very little wins over Superman, usually ones that don't do squats when you compare the feats and other encounters they had.

But she still has some. A few wins, a lot more draws, a few losses.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Captain Marvel bloodlusted without PIS could seriously damage Superman with a magic amped punch. I think one or two Shazams to the chest could KO current Superman or come close to it. With KC Superman he took a mess of them and only got annoyed and slightly bloodied.

He took at least that many the second time Eclipso possessed him, and won the same way KC Superman did.

And I believe they even established Eclipso's possession didn't give him magic defenses. (And it certainly didn't amp his strength, considering regular Supes defeated a possesses Valor in the vacuum of space after getting the wind knocked out of him.)

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I personally can't remember any clear victories from Supes, either.

Eclipsed superman trashed cap so badly in their first fight that JLI wondered how he was alive and was out of commission for quite a while.

Originally posted by Q99
But she still has some. A few wins, a lot more draws, a few losses.

Can anybody tell me when did diana knocked out Superman? Just curious.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Eclipsed superman trashed cap so badly in their first fight that JLI wondered how he was alive and was out of commission for quite a while. No he didn't

That fight was a lot more even than people think

Not talking about the damage afterwards, because I don't remember, but just about the fight

Both times that Superman was possessed by Eclipso and he fought Captain Marvel were close.

The first time, Cap's attention was averted for just enough time for possessed Superman to break out of the headlock and knock him down then fly away. The whole of the fight before that was back and forth.

The second time, Cap didn't want to fight, and he still deadlocked with Supes in a test of strength, and Superman didn't get out of Cap's headlock until he turned back to Billy with shazam bolt spamming attempts.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
1. 50/50 if all out, CM if brawling only.
2. 50/50 if all out, CM if brawling only
3. CM.
4. Supes. pretty much but I think KC supes was holding back more against KC Marvel as Marvel was giving him his best but Shazam bolts just weren't enough to keep him down.

Kind of interesting how Supes < Adam, Supes = Cap, Cap > Adam in some showings...

Adam's also > Cap more often than not, but Supes is almost always portrayed a notch beneath Adam, while Cap is shown as more his equal..

Originally posted by cdtm
Kind of interesting how Supes < Adam, Supes = Cap, Cap > Adam in some showings...

Adam's also > Cap more often than not, but Supes is almost always portrayed a notch beneath Adam, while Cap is shown as more his equal.. If you want to talk about showings at unamped levels the only time Marvel/Black Adam really came off to me as superior was PC and that was mostly due to true invulnerability more than anything else.

Originally posted by Uriel005
If you want to talk about showings at unamped levels the only time Marvel/Black Adam really came off to me as superior was PC and that was mostly due to true invulnerability more than anything else.

Not true. When Cap was fighting Eclipsed Superman, remember that Eclipso wasn't holding back, while Cap almost certainly was.

Yet, Billy still managed to get the upper hand towards the end of their first fight, up until he became distracted and gave Eclpsed Supes a free shot.

Originally posted by cdtm
Kind of interesting how Supes < Adam, Supes = Cap, Cap > Adam in some showings...

Adam's also > Cap more often than not, but Supes is almost always portrayed a notch beneath Adam, while Cap is shown as more his equal..

Its an example of the 'your own opponent' clause.

1. Slight edge to Superman
2. Supes 7/10
3. Marvel
4. Superman one million

Originally posted by cdtm
Kind of interesting how Supes < Adam, Supes = Cap, Cap > Adam in some showings...

Adam's also > Cap more often than not, but Supes is almost always portrayed a notch beneath Adam, while Cap is shown as more his equal..

Really, can you tell me about any one of these instances where adam is one notch above Superman, because I seem to remember none. Superman thrashed cap in their first eclipso fight. I believe the quote was "You're lucky marvel, I have better thing to do than kill you", cap's reply "So why am I not feeling lucky". Chalk it to free shot all you want, but billy failed to took down an exhausted, weakened to the point that he was slower than an atlantean power girl superman with a cheap shot from behind and two free shots to the face. At their best shazam brothers are equal to superman, but at his best Kal is above them.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Really, can you tell me about any one of these instances where adam is one notch above Superman, because I seem to remember none.

You're kidding, right?

Here is the fight I was talking about
http://img144.imagevenue.com/loc24/th_b31e5_capvesupes1o.jpg
Aftermath of that fight
http://img128.imagevenue.com/loc24/th_bce24_capvesupes1p.jpg
Here superman knocked Captain marvel senseless and punched from California to Hawaii and unlike Orion whom Kal punched to China Cap can fly.
http://img22.imagevenue.com/loc24/th_71336_capvesupes2a.jpg http://img144.imagevenue.com/loc24/th_2583e_capvesupes2b.jpg
Cap then USES lightning amp to catch superman's punch
http://img44.imagevenue.com/loc24/th_4f06a_capvesupes2c.jpg
So tell me where is it shown that Captain marvel=Superman.

Cherry picked scans, devoid of context.

Supes and Cap were even in the first Eclipso fight, except Supes, being controlled by Eclipso, was bloodlusted and Cap was holding back.

In the second fight, Cap immediately recovered from those punches, and he wasn't trying to fight back.

Originally posted by cdtm
You're kidding, right?

No, I'm totally serious. Post crisis there is no feat I've seen from Adam which can not be matched by Kal but reverse is not true.

Originally posted by cdtm
Cherry picked scans, devoid of context.

Supes and Cap were even in the first Eclipso fight, except Supes, being controlled by Eclipso, was bloodlusted and Cap was holding back.

In the second fight, Cap immediately recovered from those punches, and he wasn't trying to fight back.

Eclipso was not trying to fight cap either, he even stopped after those punches to gloat. Eclipso just wanted to take over Cap's body due to him being a magical being and his weakness to sunlight

They were not equal in first fight and cap was not holding back after getting a severe beating
http://img104.imagevenue.com/loc24/th_69ff7_capvesupes1l.jpg http://img137.imagevenue.com/loc24/th_7fd8e_capvesupes1n.jpg

Cap has the same "World of Cardboard" syndrome Superman and Thor do. And in this case, he was fighting Superman, a friend. Yet he's not going to hold back.

Fail.

Originally posted by cdtm
Cap has the same "World of Cardboard" syndrome Superman and Thor do. And in this case, he was fighting Superman, a friend. Yet he's not going to hold back.

Fail.
I have on-panel proof that he was not holding back "Superman,you are forcing me to get rough". All you have is your speculation that he was not holding back and you can't hold back your durability anyway. By your stand superman also beat down not holding back Eclipsed Valor while holding back himself because he never said he was going all out and valor was a friend of him. So answer me, which feat of post crisis Adam superman can't match.

It was pretty obvious Cap was holding back "a lot" of his power. Why would Eclipso want a weaker body if he had Supes. Eclipso must have believed in her head that Caps body was more powerful if she would give up Supes body in exchange for Caps.

Supes himself has admitted he can't tussle with Cap for too long and its not all due to magic either. They are pretty much equals but Cap holds a major advantage.

Originally posted by carver9
It was pretty obvious Cap was holding back "a lot" of his power. Why would Eclipso want a weaker body if he had Supes. Eclipso must have believed in her head that Caps body was more powerful if she would give up Supes body in exchange for Caps.

Supes himself has admitted he can't tussle with Cap for too long and its not all due to magic either. They are pretty much equals but Cap holds a major advantage.


Yep, the fact Kal holds back a lot is a good advantage.

Originally posted by Bentley
Yep, the fact Kal holds back a lot is a good advantage.

Captain Marvel holds back a lot as well. Can you provide me a scan of Cap trying to kill Supes. Eclipso took control of Superman body and had access to his memory and how to use his abilities. A non-holding back possessed Supes with all his power couldn't take Cap out of the fight, a holding back Cap.

Their fights are pretty much proof they are either equals or one holds an edge.

Originally posted by carver9
Captain Marvel holds back a lot as well. Can you provide me a scan of Cap trying to kill Supes.


Can you provide an scan of Wolverine trying to kill Aunt May?

I guess they are both equally powerful

Originally posted by Bentley
Can you provide an scan of Wolverine trying to kill Aunt May?

I guess they are both equally powerful

No, I can't but I can provide a scan of Supes trying to kill Cap. Would you like that?

Superman doesn't kill heroes

Originally posted by carver9
Captain Marvel holds back a lot as well. Can you provide me a scan of Cap trying to kill Supes. Eclipso took control of Superman body and had access to his memory and how to use his abilities. A non-holding back possessed Supes with all his power couldn't take Cap out of the fight, a holding back Cap.

Their fights are pretty much proof they are either equals or one holds an edge.

You don't know anything about Eclipso, do you.

But you should know that fights when under mental influence are never considered to be representative of a character's true skills in battle. I'm sure that just slipped your mind, though.

Originally posted by carver9
It was pretty obvious Cap was holding back "a lot" of his power. Why would Eclipso want a weaker body if he had Supes. Eclipso must have believed in her head that Caps body was more powerful if she would give up Supes body in exchange for Caps.

Supes himself has admitted he can't tussle with Cap for too long and its not all due to magic either. They are pretty much equals but Cap holds a major advantage.

where do you get this stuff? It certainly isn't comics.

Originally posted by -Pr-
You don't know anything about Eclipso, do you.

But you should know that fights when under mental influence are never considered to be representative of a character's true skills in battle. I'm sure that just slipped your mind, though.



where do you get this stuff? It certainly isn't comics.

here we go.

Do you think they are equals Pr?

Originally posted by carver9
here we go.

Do you think they are equals Pr?

At base levels, relatively, yeah.

Originally posted by -Pr-
At base levels, relatively, yeah.

That's my entire point. Cap has proven imo that he is an elite top tier and on Thor, Supes, and Surfer level.

By the way, what did I lie about in my post?

Originally posted by carver9
That's my entire point. Cap has proven imo that he is an elite top tier and on Thor, Supes, and Surfer level.

By the way, what did I lie about in my post?

Read my post again.

Eclipso being a non-holding back, fully capable Superman for one. Saying that Eclipso wanting Cap's body says something about both men's power. Eclipso was also predominantly male at the time, just so ya know. And Superman supposedly saying he can't tussle with Cap for too long.

Originally posted by carver9
That's my entire point. Cap has proven imo that he is an elite top tier and on Thor, Supes, and Surfer level.


I wouldn't mind if Billy was an elite top tier, but I disagree, I don't feel he has displayed enough power to be above second stringers such as Gladiator and Black Adam.

Originally posted by cdtm
Kind of interesting how Supes < Adam, Supes = Cap, Cap > Adam in some showings...

Adam's also > Cap more often than not, but Supes is almost always portrayed a notch beneath Adam, while Cap is shown as more his equal..
When has Superman been portrayed as a notch below Adam? As a matter of fact, haven't they had like only one fight Post Crisis? Superman came off as at least as powerful as Adam.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Read my post again.

Eclipso being a non-holding back, fully capable Superman for one. Saying that Eclipso wanting Cap's body says something about both men's power. Eclipso was also predominantly male at the time, just so ya know. And Superman supposedly saying he can't tussle with Cap for too long.

To a point that could be a false argument that I made because you "could" use the fact that Eclipso doesn't know how to use Supes body better than Clark could himself but again, that fight imo shows that Cap can take punches from an unrestrained Superman.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
When has Superman been portrayed as a notch below Adam? As a matter of fact, haven't they had like only one fight Post Crisis? Superman came off as at least as powerful as Adam.

Yeah, they were pretty much equals. Even though Supes stated he wasn't holding back, I think the both of them held back. Adam stated that he wasn't there to fight Supes. Loved the small tussle though. Can't wait to see a fight between the two.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
When has Superman been portrayed as a notch below Adam? As a matter of fact, haven't they had like only one fight Post Crisis? Superman came off as at least as powerful as Adam.

He hasn't that i recall, unless we're counting Adam's amp.

Originally posted by carver9
To a point that could be a false argument that I made because you "could" use the fact that Eclipso doesn't know how to use Supes body better than Clark could himself but again, that fight imo shows that Cap can take punches from an unrestrained Superman.

Eclipso is also deathly weakened by sunlight.

Yeah, sure, he can take them, even though Eclipso made it clear he had no intention of killing Billy, so unrestrained? Not really.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
When has Superman been portrayed as a notch below Adam? As a matter of fact, haven't they had like only one fight Post Crisis? Superman came off as at least as powerful as Adam.

They met one other time, but Supes only hit him once and Adam wasn't looking for a fight, so it doesn't really count...

As for that one post crisis fight, think about it. Supes was making every effort to take Adam's head off, while Adam wasn't striking back, and was attempting to talk Superman down. Yet, Supes stated he couldn't even budge Adam from Metropolis, despite his best efforts, and he was having trouble even beating him down. He also came up short when they grappled, with Adam throwing him off..

IMO, Adam came off clearly superior, given the context.

Originally posted by carver9
Can't wait to see a fight between the two.

You realize you're likely to wait for a long time, right?

Actually, since those two characters no longer exist...

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
You realize you're likely to wait for a long time, right?

I know. The wait is worth it though.

Originally posted by Bentley
Actually, since those two characters no longer exist...

Pretty much.

Originally posted by carver9
I know. The wait is worth it though.

No one's done a webcomic by now?

A fan made Vegito vs Brolly and Perfect Cell vs Darbura, and there's some neat Youtube videos like Batman vs Predator, and Batman vs Wolverine.. surely there's tons of fan comics of Superman vs Captain Marvel.

I can't seem to find any, though.. v_v;

Originally posted by carver9
I know. The wait is worth it though.

You'll have to wait for:

-Captain Marvel to be reintroduced in the DCnU.
-Black Adam to be subsequently introduced.
-And the Marvel Family/Shazam mythos to likely be built up

before you'll ever see a Black Adam (or Captain Marvel) / Superman tussle anytime soon.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
You'll have to wait for:

-Captain Marvel to be reintroduced in the DCnU.
-Black Adam to be subsequently introduced.
-And the Marvel Family/Shazam mythos to likely be built up

before you'll ever see a Black Adam (or Captain Marvel) / Superman tussle anytime soon.

I know but they might make some type of alternate encounter between the two. I guess it will be a long time huh? About 4 to 5 yrs then it won't be the same because of the personality/character change.

Just forget it.

Originally posted by cdtm
No one's done a webcomic by now?

A fan made Vegito vs Brolly and Perfect Cell vs Darbura, and there's some neat Youtube videos like Batman vs Predator, and Batman vs Wolverine.. surely there's tons of fan comics of Superman vs Captain Marvel.

I can't seem to find any, though.. v_v;

They did a Superman vs Goku as well. Wizard also put together a Superman and Goku fight that was established by A1 writers.

Originally posted by carver9
I know but they might make some type of alternate encounter between the two. I guess it will be a long time huh? About 4 to 5 yrs then it won't be the same because of the personality/character change.

Just forget it.

I'd just like to see the Marvel Family doing...well, just about anything in DC. So long as they don't rehash that Freddy-Shazam shit...facepalm

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I'd just like to see the Marvel Family doing...well, just about anything in DC. So long as they don't rehash that Freddy-Shazam shit...facepalm

Do you not like Freddy as a character?

Originally posted by carver9
Do you not like Freddy as a character?

I like Freddy as Captain Marvel, Jr. Him as Shazam/The new Captain Marvel was stupid, imo. It would have made sense if Trials of Shazam led into an ongoing or if they had Freddy on a team book or something, but it basically just crapped on the mythos. Osiris coming back to life and then depowering Freddy in the pages of Titans was just the nail in the coffin.

But no, Billy Batson is the only right person to be Captain Marvel.

Originally posted by -Pr-

Eclipso is also deathly weakened by sunlight.


This is true, and the lack of sunlight exposure should have resulted in a weakened Superman, but it's also something the writer either wasn't thinking about, or purposely ignored for the sake of story, as he had Superman stomp Lobo several times, and beat Billy so badly he couldn't join a team of heroes to storm Eclipso's stronghold.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I like Freddy as Captain Marvel, Jr. Him as Shazam/The new Captain Marvel was stupid, imo. It would have made sense if Trials of Shazam led into an ongoing or if they had Freddy on a team book or something, but it basically just crapped on the mythos. Osiris coming back to life and then depowering Freddy in the pages of Titans was just the nail in the coffin.

But no, Billy Batson is the only right person to be Captain Marvel.

I agree to an extent because Freddy is kind of arrogant. I just didn't have a big issue with what happened with Freddy. He needs screen time (even though Cap rarely receive any appearances himself) and a power boost helped that.

I just like the Marvel family overall.

Originally posted by cdtm
This is true, and the lack of sunlight exposure should have resulted in a weakened Superman, but it's also something the writer either wasn't thinking about, or purposely ignored for the sake of story, as he had Superman stomp Lobo several times, and beat Billy so badly he couldn't join a team of heroes to storm Eclipso's stronghold.

Oh, I know. I was just commenting on how Superman wasn't in any way amped by Eclipso the second time around.

I don't know if i trust Loeb to have remembered that.

Originally posted by carver9
They did a Superman vs Goku as well. Wizard also put together a Superman and Goku fight that was established by A1 writers.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/6/61170/1166302-superman_vs_goku__super.png

Originally posted by carver9
I agree to an extent because Freddy is kind of arrogant. I just didn't have a big issue with what happened with Freddy. He needs screen time (even though Cap rarely receive any appearances himself) and a power boost helped that.

I just like the Marvel family overall.

Yeah, he was a cocky guy prior to his injury, but once he was crippled, he was forced to become humble. Honestly, the dynamic between Freddy and Billy is actually pretty cool; Freddy got his powers from the same guy who wound up playing a role in the accident which killed his grandpa and crippled him at the same time and there's some simmering resentment for that while at the same time being grateful for the opportunity to be able to walk on his own and even fly.

Mary Marvel's character has been trashed and warped something fierce, though.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Yeah, he was a cocky guy prior to his injury, but once he was crippled, he was forced to become humble. Honestly, the dynamic between Freddy and Billy is actually pretty cool; Freddy got his powers from the same guy who wound up playing a role in the accident which killed his grandpa and crippled him at the same time and there's some simmering resentment for that while at the same time being grateful for the opportunity to be able to walk on his own and even fly.

Mary Marvel's character has been trashed and warped something fierce, though.

Lol...you didn't like Black Mary?

Originally posted by cdtm
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/6/61170/1166302-superman_vs_goku__super.png

Lol...I could see that happening.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...you didn't like Black Mary?

Not really. And I didn't care for the fact that they had Mary give in to temptation, repent, give in again, repent, give in again, and one more time for good measure. They really overdid the whole "seduction of the innocent" angle with Mary and destroyed everything about her, tbh. Worse, her taint rubbed off on Billy, who was cited as being the person on Earth with a soul purer than even Clark. Her last appearance redeemed her somewhat in the Shazam one-shot, but not enough.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Not really. And I didn't care for the fact that they had Mary give in to temptation, repent, give in again, repent, give in again, and one more time for good measure. They really overdid the whole "seduction of the innocent" angle with Mary and destroyed everything about her, tbh. Worse, her taint rubbed off on Billy, who was cited as being the person on Earth with a soul purer than even Clark. Her last appearance redeemed her somewhat in the Shazam one-shot, but not enough.

Hhhmmm, didnt think about it like that. I liked the scene when they had her and Adam in the church talking and Adam was explaining what his powers made him do and how having his powers would bring misery in her life.

I also like her team up with Darkseid but the stories that came along with it wasn't so great. I think the stories had potential, the writers they had putting these stories together didn't do a good job. If they would have used someone like Pak (lol): the stories would have came out much better.

Did anybody ever fully explain the notion that Captain Marvel splits his power with his family and whether that plays into his fights with Superman?

Typically, when they fight, it's assumed that Billy is utilizing the totality of the Power of Shazam. That exact topic came up when he stalemated Superman in an arm wrestling contest until Freddy and Mary arrived and powered up, resulting in Superman winning.

I personally figure that Captain Marvel, when he fights Superman, in any case (or is featured by his lonesome), he's the only one tapping into his power. And we all know what kind of shit storm would happen if it was ever shown or alluded that Cap at 1/3 of his power was stalemating Superman.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Did anybody ever fully explain the notion that Captain Marvel splits his power with his family and whether that plays into his fights with Superman? Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Typically, when they fight, it's assumed that Billy is utilizing the totality of the Power of Shazam. That exact topic came up when he stalemated Superman in an arm wrestling contest until Freddy and Mary arrived and powered up, resulting in Superman winning.

I personally figure that Captain Marvel, when he fights Superman, in any case (or is featured by his lonesome), he's the only one tapping into his power. And we all know what kind of shit storm would happen if it was ever shown or alluded that Cap at 1/3 of his power was stalemating Superman. then again I don't exactly see Marvel pulling the same feats of strength as Supes 9/10. Also if you want to talk about holding back considering Superman's showings when he goes for an outright kill under his own will versus his everyday showings the difference is generally night and day. So to say Marvel is the only one pulling his punches is a bit off.

Also at least in KC Captain Marvel was giving supes what for without restraint when he started Shazam bolting him. Supes was holding back and hell I feel he could have taken it when he wanted to all things considered.

Also regular supes feats are overall better than Marvel's. I know that's due to him being flagship hero but still the fact still stands that his showings for the most part are superior.

KC Captain Marvel was not going all out.

He was being cocky and fighting stupid. Shit eating grin and all.

KC Superman was trying to talk to some sense into the Billy because he HAD NO CHOICE. What was he going to do, KO him before the Warhead touched down in a few minutes? He wasn't going to be able to do that, if he could have, he would have as the situation was dire. So he tried to do what was realistic.

Not only did Spectre rate them equal, KC Superman called KC CM the 'mightiest of us'. Even if you rate Superman's words as nothing but flowery reminisce, the middle ground is still that they were equal.

Also, when Superman speeded off towards the warhead, KC Billy easily overtook him to sacrifice himself instead.

That whole fight/scene is very easy to interpret, I don't know how people get all this stuff that is not shown or hinted at anywhere else within it.

Originally posted by Uriel005
then again I don't exactly see Marvel pulling the same feats of strength as Supes 9/10. Also if you want to talk about holding back considering Superman's showings when he goes for an outright kill under his own will versus his everyday showings the difference is generally night and day. So to say Marvel is the only one pulling his punches is a bit off.

Also at least in KC Captain Marvel was giving supes what for without restraint when he started Shazam bolting him. Supes was holding back and hell I feel he could have taken it when he wanted to all things considered.

Also regular supes feats are overall better than Marvel's. I know that's due to him being flagship hero but still the fact still stands that his showings for the most part are superior.

Errr...neither ODG or myself stated that Marvel is the only one pulling his punches.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
KC Captain Marvel was not going all out.

He was being cocky and fighting stupid. Shit eating grin and all.

KC Superman was trying to talk to some sense into the Billy because he HAD NO CHOICE. What was he going to do, KO him before the Warhead touched down in a few minutes? He wasn't going to be able to do that, if he could have, he would have as the situation was dire. So he tried to do what was realistic.

Not only did Spectre rate them equal, KC Superman called KC CM the 'mightiest of us'. Even if you rate Superman's words as nothing but flowery reminisce, the middle ground is still that they were equal.

Also, when Superman speeded off towards the warhead, KC Billy easily overtook him to sacrifice himself instead.

That whole fight/scene is very easy to interpret, I don't know how people get all this stuff that is not shown or hinted at anywhere else within it.



We're told by Superman that Captain Marvel is his equal or "the mightiest of us". Narration tells us that Captain Marvel was the only soldier who could match him move for move. Alex Ross goes on to say that he personally viewed Captain Marvel as being beyond Superman for the purposes of his story. Superman only "beat" Captain Marvel because he pushed him back into his Shazam bolt. Prior to that Captain Marvel was fighting Superman evenly and wasn't even taking the fight seriously at all. And he was mind controlled.

How this somehow translates into KC Superman being superior is beyond me.

superman was past his prime in that story, but yes, CM lost by being to cocky and not thinking.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
superman was past his prime in that story, but yes, CM lost by being to cocky and not thinking. Idk when KC supes came to earth 1 or 2 not sure which it was he seemed to be quite a damned bit more powerful than local supes who got sucker punched by herc and KC supes completely no sold him (herc)

I never saw them as equals IMHO. The only equal to superman in post crisis DCU is orion and I think Thor is the closest you can find an equal to superman in marvel. Considering marvel posseses one of the biggest vulnerabilities of superman in magic and yet doesn't have a single victory to boot is telling. Remove magic from equation and superman would beat the shit out of Captain marvel but a fresh cap despite having an advantage toe to toe couldn't drop a weakened, exhausted from fighting non stop and his solar stores drained by nightshade Superman. Man, wonder woman did better than him when she is supposed to be under superman. So much for being equals!

Kingdom Come Captain Marvel IIRC was somewhat crazy from the brainwashing hence the shit eating grin etc. Still, the two were pretty much equals physically. I'd wager Ross would love to see Billy trump Clark straight up but it can't ever happen.

"By a single lightning bolt, Armageddon has arrived"

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/8/84191/1653995-captain_marvel_in_kingdom_come_super.jpg

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Kingdom Come Captain Marvel IIRC was somewhat crazy from the brainwashing hence the shit eating grin etc. Still, the two were pretty much equals physically. I'd wager Ross would love to see Billy trump Clark straight up but it can't ever happen.

probably, he's an admitted fanboy iirc.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Here is the fight I was talking about
http://img144.imagevenue.com/loc24/th_b31e5_capvesupes1o.jpg
Aftermath of that fight
http://img128.imagevenue.com/loc24/th_bce24_capvesupes1p.jpg
Here superman knocked Captain marvel senseless and punched from California to Hawaii and unlike Orion whom Kal punched to China Cap can fly.
http://img22.imagevenue.com/loc24/th_71336_capvesupes2a.jpg http://img144.imagevenue.com/loc24/th_2583e_capvesupes2b.jpg
Cap then USES lightning amp to catch superman's punch
http://img44.imagevenue.com/loc24/th_4f06a_capvesupes2c.jpg
Here is cap adding stamina of Atlas and strength of hercules and even then couldn't overcome superman's strength
http://img144.imagevenue.com/loc24/th_a16fe_capsupesarm2a.jpg http://img138.imagevenue.com/loc24/th_0ef3d_capsupesarm2b.jpg http://img147.imagevenue.com/loc24/th_b0162_capsupesarm2c.jpg
So tell me where is it shown that Captain marvel=Superman.

Originally posted by -Pr-
probably, he's an admitted fanboy iirc.

Yea, he is.

Originally posted by abhilegend
There equals man, just quit

They are pretty much equals more often than not but there's no denying that under at least some portrayals, Superman can kick it up to a level that Captain Marvel -and every other hero in DC- can't match. Tbf, those are the more extreme takes.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
They are pretty much equals more often than not but there's no denying that under at least some portrayals, Superman can kick it up to a level that Captain Marvel -and every other hero in DC- can't match. Tbf, those are the more extreme takes. Like gladiator

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
Like gladiator
No, nothing like Gladiator. He wishes he could get as much respect in Marvel as Clark does in DC. Or even in general.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
No, nothing like Gladiator. He wishes he could get as much respect in Marvel as Clark does in DC. Or even in general.

Marvel gives Gladiator the upper most respect.

Originally posted by carver9
Marvel gives Gladiator the upper most respect.

*utmost.

And not really.

Originally posted by carver9
Marvel gives Gladiator the upper most respect.

Not on the level of Surfer nevermind Superman.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Not on the level of Surfer nevermind Superman.

I agree due to his limited showings but if you include his entire history of what he has accomplished and the myth and sayings that are spread throughout the galaxy about his power level, they show him a lot of respect.

Originally posted by carver9
I agree.

Originally posted by carver9
I agree due to his limited showings but if you include his entire history of what he has accomplished and the myth and sayings that are spread throughout the galaxy about his power level, they show him a lot of respect. Not as much as the Surfer.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
There equals man, just quit
By whose admission YOU, who said that COLOSSUS should be stronger than superman or made at least half the "kill or hurt superman" threads sneaking colossus in every one of them. I am not asking for your biased arguements, I was hoping to ask someone who actually knows about both characters.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Not as much as the Surfer.

Almost there to be honest. Gladiator on numerous of occasions has been marked as one of the most powerful beings in the Universe.

Originally posted by carver9
Almost there to be honest. Gladiator on numerous of occasions has been marked as one of the most powerful beings in the Universe. So have many but Surfer's best showings are far more impressive than Gladiator's.

Why are you guys talking about whether Surfer or Gladiator is more impressive in a Superman vs. Captain Marvel thread?

Originally posted by Cogito
Why are you guys talking about whether Surfer or Gladiator is more impressive in a Superman vs. Captain Marvel thread? Its related to the discussion we are having

Originally posted by carver9
Almost there to be honest. Gladiator on numerous of occasions has been marked as one of the most powerful beings in the Universe.

So has Martian Manhunter... But alas...

Originally posted by Cogito
Why are you guys talking about whether Surfer or Gladiator is more impressive in a Superman vs. Captain Marvel thread?

Lower your expectations.

Originally posted by carver9
Almost there to be honest. Gladiator on numerous of occasions has been marked as one of the most powerful beings in the Universe.

Carver, I need a good laugh... how much stronger is Gladiator compared to Thanos?

superman

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Carver, I need a good laugh... how much stronger is Gladiator compared to Thanos?

Much stronger.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
superman was past his prime in that story, but yes, CM lost by being to cocky and not thinking. I'm pretty sure the opposite happened. KC Superman soaked up so much yellow sun radiation that he literally became immune to Kryptonite.

Originally posted by -Pr-
*utmost.

And not really. This.

Also... he's purple and has a mowhawk... Mr. T pities the fool trying to encroach on his style.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I'm pretty sure the opposite happened. KC Superman soaked up so much yellow sun radiation that he literally became immune to Kryptonite.

I'm 100% sure you're right.

"Peak of his invulnerability", Lex called him.

Originally posted by -Pr-
So has Martian Manhunter... But alas...


It's been proven, though.. Even in World War III, he claimed he was allowing Adam the luxury of thought (E.g., didn't even attempt to switch his mind off), which allowed Adam to resist him and break his mind control (No doubt Adam's magic nature caused problems, as Captain Marvel was also resisting the control of the Grey Man in Giffen's original JLA run thanks to his magic..)

John Ostranders take on MM is probably the most overpowered MM ever, as he has damage soak similar to Plastic Man, and uses his shape shifting ability much more effectively (Like tanking a punch that drives him into the ground by a being stronger than Superman, and simply shapeshifts around his opponent, trapping him.)

Originally posted by cdtm
It's been proven, though.. Even in World War III, he claimed he was allowing Adam the luxury of thought (E.g., didn't even attempt to switch his mind off), which allowed Adam to resist him and break his mind control (No doubt Adam's magic nature caused problems, as Captain Marvel was also resisting the control of the Grey Man in Giffen's original JLA run thanks to his magic..)

John Ostranders take on MM is probably the most overpowered MM ever, as he has damage soak similar to Plastic Man, and uses his shape shifting ability much more effectively (Like tanking a punch that drives him into the ground by a being stronger than Superman, and simply shapeshifts around his opponent, trapping him.)

I'm not saying J'onn isn't powerful; he is.

Just that he's been called arguably the most powerful if not the most powerful member of the JLA, and yet has become the butt-monkey of more than a few villains. Worf effect and all.

Is just racism against bald green aliens.

I don't think it's any coincidence that J'onn has been mostly played by black actors.

Because he's bald and colored right?

biscuits

Now you're gettin' it.

He's not part of my delegation, so kudos to the writers for keeping him down.

Okay I vote Marvel, and that's all I saying as of right now

So no one wants to prove cap=supes?

I think Cap is stronger, not equal too. Stronger.

^ Yeah, I think to be fair, the question is just as much, is Captain Marvel equal to Superman physically, as it is, is Superman equal to Captain Marvel physically?

So cap is stronger, more durable to the point HV doesn't even bother him and close in speed and posseses a major weakness of superman, yet doesn't have a single h2h win to his credit. Did you see the scan I posted where cap amping his strength couldn't overpower superman,right?

Originally posted by abhilegend
So cap is stronger, more durable to the point HV doesn't even bother him and close in speed and posseses a major weakness of superman, yet doesn't have a single h2h win to his credit. Did you see the scan I posted where cap amping his strength couldn't overpower superman,right?

That was the first and only time such a stacking feat was shown by Cap to match Superman physically. He didn't need such a thing to stalemate him in another contest of strength, nor did he do so against Eclispo-Superman. Fact of the matter is Cap, while drawing on the Power of Shazam by his lonesome, is treated as a very close peer or outright equal to Superman. Superman himself has conceded this point, and he experienced first hand the potency of what it's like to be Captain Marvel.

The fact that Captain Marvel requiring Atlas strength to combine with Hercules' strength to equal Superman or other beings never again being referenced, alluded to, or shown pretty much cements that point.

^You mean the Action comics 768 where the writer wrote a scene where mary marvel survived being cut in half IN HER HUMAN FORM. Or the scene where cap was handshaking superman while both Freddy and Mary were drawing power from him because power sharing was still effective. If a writer doesn't even know what are the powers of characters, how can we believe him otherwise full power CM far surpasses superman.