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Val gets the flight ring. Who wins?

tough one...I can even see KK winning. If diana does it will be due to her weapons

Wonder Woman should take it. ZH wasn't quite as powerful as the original, and also KKs tend to hold off, rather than beat, top tiers.

Diana's also quite good in melee herself. Not KK level of course, but enough to minimize exploitable weaknesses, and combined with higher speed and her other stuff she should win.

KK. Even though WW has a significant strength advantage, i don't think she can touch him unless she sneaks up on him with that jet.

Originally posted by Q99
Wonder Woman should take it. ZH wasn't quite as powerful as the original, and also KKs tend to hold off, rather than beat, top tiers.

Diana's also quite good in melee herself. Not KK level of course, but enough to minimize exploitable weaknesses, and combined with higher speed and her other stuff she should win.

In some instances, Zero Hour was better. Senses and all. Plus he did dodge Mon-el's heat vision as well.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
In some instances, Zero Hour was better. Senses and all. Plus he did dodge Mon-el's heat vision as well.

Yea, he had some better abilities, but in HtH I think pre-ZH is better.

And with respect to Mon-el, Diana's more skilled and has better hand to hand speed. It's also not like he took out Mon.

He did redirect him to outerspace. Mon-el was pissed and he was using his super speed.

Val also sparred with Mon-el at super speeds as well.

I'm not saying it won't be a fight, but still, in the end the physical attributes (and weapons) will tell. She won't overextend herself or rush.

*Bump*

I'm thinking Val takes the majority. WW's lasso and shield should net her at least 4 out of 10.

Val gouges out her eyes and breaks her arm.

Originally posted by Q99
Wonder Woman should take it. ZH wasn't quite as powerful as the original, and also KKs tend to hold off, rather than beat, top tiers.



Good thing Diana isn't "top-tier" then.

Originally posted by Star428
Good thing Diana isn't "top-tier" then. Is Superman?

Because she just rekt his shit.

Originally posted by Mindset
Is Superman?

Because she just rekt his shit. http://2.media.collegehumor.cvcdn.com/80/19/509aea630604f6ff74b077b94c9ae708-how-i-met-your-mother-high-five.gif

Originally posted by Mindset
Is Superman?

Because she just rekt his shit.

This makes me sad, she got a clean win over him?

It was pretty dirty, what with the blood.

Smh at KK threads.

KK wins.

Eh, KK really doesn't hurt people of her level, just hold them off... even ones not as skillful as Wondy.

Originally posted by Surtur
This makes me sad, she got a clean win over him?


Clean? Oh no, not in the slightest.

It was quite bloody!

http://40.media.tumblr.com/f7e498870e05f746fa798df6a5ef05da/tumblr_nqew9iMyEX1sqep2mo10_500.png


Seriously, dunno why people are so shocked that a HtH/skill focused top-tier can beat Superman if the setting is one that favors her skills. When he can use his speed, range, and get things focused more on the power of blows rather than how good one can apply them in close, then he wins.

Are this DCnU WW and Superman?

I think the main point everyone is missing, is don't phuck with Batman.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Are this DCnU WW and Superman?

Injustice: Gods among us.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Injustice: Gods among us.

Hmm, so no relevance to this thread? Why did the people bring it up then?

Originally posted by Q99
Eh, KK really doesn't hurt people of her level, just hold them off... even ones not as skillful as Wondy.





Equus is arguably her level, tier wise.

And Diana's weak against piercing damage, so a spear hand that could go through the Emerald Eye or Ineritron should work as well as a sword.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Hmm, so no relevance to this thread? Why did the people bring it up then?

Which WW wasn't specified, and Injustice tends to fall fairly near standard in power.



Originally posted by cdtm
Equus is arguably her level, tier wise.

And Diana's weak against piercing damage, so a spear hand that could go through the Emerald Eye or Ineritron should work as well as a sword.

*Somewhat* her weak point, but she still has healing factor and mondo toughness.

Wonder Woman's won fights after being impaled before.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Hmm, so no relevance to this thread? Why did the people bring it up then?

Because it is hilarious.

Originally posted by cdtm
Equus is arguably her level, tier wise.

And Diana's weak against piercing damage, so a spear hand that could go through the Emerald Eye or Ineritron should work as well as a sword.

Hence why she uses her bracelets all the time. KK can prob shatter DCnU's, though.

Originally posted by Q99
Eh, KK really doesn't hurt people of her level, just hold them off... even ones not as skillful as Wondy.




Clean? Oh no, not in the slightest.

It was quite bloody!

http://40.media.tumblr.com/f7e498870e05f746fa798df6a5ef05da/tumblr_nqew9iMyEX1sqep2mo10_500.png


Seriously, dunno why people are so shocked that a HtH/skill focused top-tier can beat Superman if the setting is one that favors her skills. When he can use his speed, range, and get things focused more on the power of blows rather than how good one can apply them in close, then he wins.

Oh, sheet, enter Abby in 3, 2, 1...

By the way, is WW's boob out?

No, the foreground stuff just blocks the view of the metal parts.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Because it is hilarious.



Hence why she uses her bracelets all the time. KK can prob shatter DCnU's, though.

Maybe. But he's also a lot faster then a bullet.

Basically, he'll get past her guard the same way Superman does to deliver a punch.

Originally posted by Q99
Which WW wasn't specified, and Injustice tends to fall fairly near standard in power.


IIRC it's always the mainstream version if not specifically mentioned by the TS. She is not the same, period.

So okay I can see WW beating him but why in gods name is he bleeding from his damn eyeballs?

Also when I talk about a clean win I talk about..well, a win where she could of won no matter the location, etc.

Also other comments seem to suggest this wasn't the current DCnU Wonder Woman in those scans?

Originally posted by Surtur
So okay I can see WW beating him but why in gods name is he bleeding from his damn eyeballs?

Also when I talk about a clean win I talk about..well, a win where she could of won no matter the location, etc.

Also other comments seem to suggest this wasn't the current DCnU Wonder Woman in those scans?

She eye gouged him first.

Was in a neutral location, neither were mind-controlled/amped etc.

And its from the Injustice: Gods Among Us video-game tie-in comic.

Yeah then I'd have to parrot what was asked..why even mention it? I get that no version of WW is stated, but I don't know why anyone would jump straight to a comic based off a video game. Especially with the "wonder woman just wrecked him" sounded like it was referring to the DCnU version.

I understand someone said they might be of comparable power perhaps..but still apples and oranges really.

Originally posted by Surtur
Yeah then I'd have to parrot what was asked..why even mention it? I get that no version of WW is stated, but I don't know why anyone would jump straight to a comic based off a video game. Especially with the "wonder woman just wrecked him" sounded like it was referring to the DCnU version.

I understand someone said they might be of comparable power perhaps..but still apples and oranges really.

Then I'd have to parrot what I said - it's hilarious.

The same would be done if Hulk got wrecked. Or Thor. Or Glads. Or Bats. Etc etc. Everyone is here to have fun, nobody was seriously suggesting porting Injustice WW's feats onto DCnU.

I mean, look who said he was rekt. Mindset.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Hmm, so no relevance to this thread? Why did the people bring it up then?
Because nobody on this planet likes Superman.

You're a martian uhuh

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Because nobody on this planet likes Superman.

You're a martian uhuh

My sig/avy shows what we think of Martians....

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
She eye gouged him first.

Was in a neutral location, neither were mind-controlled/amped etc.

And its from the Injustice: Gods Among Us video-game tie-in comic.

A tie in to a game that's well past its expiration date.

Yeah, it started off as a way to hype the game, but at this point it's become its own thing (Where's the Constantine dlc?), and imo it's a lot better then Injustice: The Game, story wise.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
My sig/avy shows what we think of Martians....

Yeah, to hell with all Superman fans. This solar system needs to be clear of their awful kind.

I kinda like Surtur, though. But let's assume he's just pretending so he can get some mod power from Pr.

Originally posted by Q99
Which WW wasn't specified, and Injustice tends to fall fairly near standard in power.




I don't think I've ever seen bullets bounce off Wonder Womans chest the way they did in Injustice.

But the most glaring power difference is Trigon fighting evenly with Mxy. He was always powerful, but not 5d imp powerful.

Superman was more powerful in Justice than he normally is in prefp or nu52, I'm glad we agree, IFtm.

Originally posted by Q99
Eh, KK really doesn't hurt people of her level, just hold them off... even ones not as skillful as Wondy.




Clean? Oh no, not in the slightest.

It was quite bloody!

http://40.media.tumblr.com/f7e498870e05f746fa798df6a5ef05da/tumblr_nqew9iMyEX1sqep2mo10_500.png


Seriously, dunno why people are so shocked that a HtH/skill focused top-tier can beat Superman if the setting is one that favors her skills. When he can use his speed, range, and get things focused more on the power of blows rather than how good one can apply them in close, then he wins.
I don't know whether to laugh at you or pity you.

Superman casually beat the shit out of her in a straight fight, her sword shattered on his hand and when he stopped to give her a chance she gouged his eyes like "a girl" and had his arm in a lock with a joint attack as she can't even hurt him with standard attacks.

That's a win while there is a big "To be continued" logo in the corner?

Originally posted by Q99
Which WW wasn't specified, and Injustice tends to fall fairly near standard in power.


crylaugh

No, no, let me do it again.

hysterical

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Then I'd have to parrot what I said - it's hilarious.

The same would be done if Hulk got wrecked. Or Thor. Or Glads. Or Bats. Etc etc. Everyone is here to have fun, nobody was seriously suggesting porting Injustice WW's feats onto DCnU.

I mean, look who said he was rekt. Mindset.

I get it now, and I don't think anyone was purposely trying to do it, just if nobody had asked which versions did it I would of been under the assumption people were talking about current versions.

Why were they even fighting? Everyone was just kind of standing around casually watching WW make Superman look like he just encountered the Mothman.

Originally posted by Surtur
I get it now, and I don't think anyone was purposely trying to do it, just if nobody had asked which versions did it I would of been under the assumption people were talking about current versions.

Why were they even fighting? Everyone was just kind of standing around casually watching WW make Superman look like he just encountered the Mothman.

Because Batman is that badass.

So, basic Injustice storyline, Superman decides to make a better tomorrow, rallies some to his cause, Batman has others.

Bats manipulates WW into challenging him to trial by combat, he agrees, then nominates WW as his champion. Zeus steps in, tells nobody to interfere, and they fight. It has to be to the death, and no one is allowed to go easy on anyone else.

You should read the comic first. Superman beat the shit out of her casually, she surprised him when he stopped to give her a chance and she had him in an armlock. The fight is going to continue next week.

In a straight fight she was unable to even move his head with a kick and her sword shattered on his hand.

A 'straight' fight. Lol. Well, this isn't the thread for it, but a fight is a fight is a fight. There is no 'girly' way of fighting, there is only a winner and a loser.

We always knew Superman was > WW in strength. Her not being able to budge him is fine.

We also knew that WW > Superman in fighting skills. Eye gouging, arm locks, joint attacks are all valid - she'd have studied pankration, after all. I mean, what did people think, it was a Queensberry rules boxing match? He stopped to give her a chance, she attacked his knee, then his eyes, then broke his arm - Superman's glaring weakness was always his heart and his sense of fair play.

It also harks back to the earlier convo he had with Luthor. How far is everyone willing to go? WW obv is willing to go further than Superman was at that point.

Next issue, I fully expect WW to die/lose. But as it stands, she is wrecking him.

And only Batman is the winner. At a stroke, Superman's chief ally is gone, Superman is shown to be a monster, AND his arm is broken etc.

Originally posted by abhilegend
You should read the comic first. Superman beat the shit out of her casually, she surprised him when he stopped to give her a chance and she had him in an armlock. The fight is going to continue next week.

In a straight fight she was unable to even move his head with a kick and her sword shattered on his hand.

Too bad, you don't get to explain this away, especially after all the fast ones you've pulled on other characters scans lately.

She's whooping data ass now. I don't think your arm is supposed to go that way and he's eyes don't look good.

"help me abhi"

Originally posted by krisblaze
"help me abhi"

ppEg3xk4Ez0

After he stopped fighting. It's basically a suckershot. I'd liked to see her trying the same tactics when he was prepared.

In this same universe Superman recovered in minutes from captain Atom's detonation, wonder woman was in a coma for a year.

It's alright to hate Superman though.

Got to say, it's amusing to see everyone trying to lure me to a bait using this comic. Never knew I was so "popular" here.

Originally posted by abhilegend
After he stopped fighting. It's basically a suckershot. I'd liked to see her trying the same tactics when he was prepared.

In this same universe Superman recovered in minutes from captain Atom's detonation, wonder woman was in a coma for a year.

It's alright to hate Superman though.

Got to say, it's amusing to see everyone trying to lure me to a bait using this comic. Never knew I was so "popular" here.

You know full well if Hulk had the same, we'd all be piling on carver - including you hehe. Take your lumps, the next week will vindicate you.

Besides, it's his fault for letting his guard down in a 'to the death' fight against WW, of all people.

It's not a sucker shot. He underestimated her and paid the price: gouged eyes, broken wrist and arm. lol.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Too bad, you don't get to explain this away, especially after all the fast ones you've pulled on other characters scans lately.

She's whooping data ass now. I don't think your arm is supposed to go that way and he's eyes don't look good.
Explain what? That she got her shit pushed in and has to resort to surprise attacks to even harm him?

They were in a fight...it wasn't a sucker shot. He should've know it was coming since Wonder Woman did announce before attacking him that she was going to bring him to his knees. In regards to this fight. Who has KK taken out to make anyone believe he could beat WW?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You know full well if Hulk had the same, we'd all be piling on carver - including you hehe. Take your lumps, the next week will vindicate you.

Besides, it's his fault for letting his guard down in a 'to the death' fight against WW, of all people.
I don't mind any of this. I'm pretty indifferent to pretty much anything these days.

This is more amusing than anything else. Originally posted by One-Punch
It's not a sucker shot. He underestimated her and paid the price: gouged eyes, broken wrist and arm. lol.


Mental gymnastics suit you.

I feel like this fight didn't do their lightspeed reflexes justice.

Abhi don't insult people who disagree with you.

First warning.

Originally posted by krisblaze
I feel like this fight didn't do their lightspeed reflexes justice.

Abhi don't insult people who disagree with you.

First warning.

Little did you know, the entire fight took place in 0.0000000001 microseconds.

Harley could see what was happening because of her skewed perception of reality

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Then I'd have to parrot what I said - it's hilarious.

The same would be done if Hulk got wrecked. Or Thor. Or Glads. Or Bats. Etc etc. Everyone is here to have fun, nobody was seriously suggesting porting Injustice WW's feats onto DCnU.

I mean, look who said he was rekt. Mindset.

The same HAS been done. Remember that elsewhere scan of Hulk hitting Thor in the face with Mjolnir? Some posters had a field day with that.

Also attacking somebody after blinding them isn't a suckershot.

Oh this forum.

Originally posted by abhilegend
After he stopped fighting. It's basically a suckershot. I'd liked to see her trying the same tactics when he was prepared.

In this same universe Superman recovered in minutes from captain Atom's detonation, wonder woman was in a coma for a year.

It's alright to hate Superman though.

Got to say, it's amusing to see everyone trying to lure me to a bait using this comic. Never knew I was so "popular" here.



Is Injustice even canon? I didn't think it was.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Also attacking somebody after blinding them isn't a suckershot.

Oh this forum.



Who stops in the middle of a deathmatch to talk, honestly?? I mean, Clark even said he won't hold back, not even for Diana (after Hera had screamed 'FIGHT TO THE DEATH!!!!')....then, stops.

Superman. The dumbest guy on the planet, lol.

Originally posted by Star428
Is Injustice even canon? I didn't think it was.

Course not. Everyone is having fun, abhi is making it worse by clinging to his argument that it was a 'cheap' fight, and that really, Superman is winning.

When we all know it's Batman who is playing them like fools. FOOLS!

Originally posted by abhilegend
Explain what? That she got her shit pushed in and has to resort to surprise attacks to even harm him?


You and your LAME ASS EXCUSES. How the **** was it a sucker shot when they are in a one on one death battle? Where is that super intellect?

Your spin is so pitifully hypocritical. You are calling this a sucker shot yet last week you didn't acknowledge a real sucker shot by Firelord after Surfer put him down and was trying to reason with him, remember that?? The truth is she ****ed him up, period. Oh, and pushed his arm shit in.

Oh, good. Since everyone is just "having fun" bringing up non-canon stories to "prove" WW is a "top-tier" (LOL) then someone should post some scans of Bizarro (a true top-tier) shit-stomping her in Trinity. It's all in fun, right?

Originally posted by Star428
Oh, good. Since everyone is just "having fun" bringing up non-canon stories to "prove" WW is a "top-tier" (LOL) then someone should post some scans of Bizarro (a true top-tier) shit-stomping her in Trinity. It's all in fun, right?

Yup!

Although, can KK replicate what Trinity Bizarro did?

Fair to say, I reckon DCnU WW can replicate what Injustice WW did, after all, Superman's arms/eyes must be >>>KK's durability.

Originally posted by Star428
Oh, good. Since everyone is just "having fun" bringing up non-canon stories to "prove" WW is a "top-tier" (LOL) then someone should post some scans of Bizarro (a true top-tier) shit-stomping her in Trinity. It's all in fun, right?

Injustice isn't canon, but this is:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/39001/4248333-wwvssupes2.png

vin

Originally posted by krisblaze
"help me abhi" "ABHI PLEASE SAVE ME FROM HER!"

I think it's time my sig focuses on a new target. lulface

Originally posted by Star428
Oh, good. Since everyone is just "having fun" bringing up non-canon stories to "prove" WW is a "top-tier" (LOL) then someone should post some scans of Bizarro (a true top-tier) shit-stomping her in Trinity. It's all in fun, right? Lol at butthurt Superman fans.

Originally posted by krisblaze
"help me abhi"

Poor abhi, he can't even help his hero.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Who stops in the middle of a deathmatch to talk, honestly?? I mean, Clark even said he won't hold back, not even for Diana (after Hera had screamed 'FIGHT TO THE DEATH!!!!')....then, stops.

Superman. The dumbest guy on the planet, lol.
Or he just wants to **** her.

Won't happen if she's dead.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Or he just wants to **** her.

Won't happen if she's dead.

I hope he wasn't planning on eye****ing her.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
You and your LAME ASS EXCUSES. How the **** was it a sucker shot when they are in a one on one death battle? Where is that super intellect?

Your spin is so pitifully hypocritical. You are calling this a sucker shot yet last week you didn't acknowledge a real sucker shot by Firelord after Surfer put him down and was trying to reason with him, remember that?? The truth is she ****ed him up, period. Oh, and pushed his arm shit in.
Blinding someone when they stop isn't a suckershot?



Did you even read what I said about surfer and firelord you poor sad kid?Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Course not. Everyone is having fun, abhi is making it worse by clinging to his argument that it was a 'cheap' fight, and that really, Superman is winning.

When we all know it's Batman who is playing them like fools. FOOLS!

Having fun? More like mental gymnastics.Originally posted by One-Punch
Injustice isn't canon, but this is:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/39001/4248333-wwvssupes2.png

vin
That the only way she can hurt him is by cheapshots?



Otherwise?

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/016-SupermanBatman015Rembrandt-DCP.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/017-SupermanBatman015Rembrandt-DCP.jpg

Abhi's wet dreams happen only in abhi's wet dreams continuity.

Wolverine is still dead stilt.

Hating on superman won't get him back.

I think you're the one doing mental gymnastics to try and convince yourself Superman is winning his Injustice fight lol.

You should post their fight in Superman: Sacrifice. Superman was super blood-lusted since Max Lord made Superman think Wonder Woman was Doomsday, and made him think she killed Lois.

Wonder Woman did extremely well considering she was holding back and Superman was out to kill.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Wolverine is still dead stilt.

Hating on superman won't get him back.

No, it won't. But it sure makes me nerdgasm 86x a day.

Originally posted by One-Punch
I think you're the one doing mental gymnastics to try and convince yourself Superman is winning his Injustice fight lol.

You should post their fight in Superman: Sacrifice. Superman was super blood-lusted since Max Lord made Superman think Wonder Woman was Doomsday, and made him think she killed Lois.

Wonder Woman did extremely well considering she was holding back and Superman was out to kill.
So you're saying she wasn't on his knees when Superman stopped fighting?

Very well? He punched her once in the entire fight and KTFO her, snapped her arm like a twig and missed every punch because he was hallucinating?

That fight showed how above her he was. In a straight up fight she would've dies within seconds according to that fight if he had thrown her into the sun and not tried to make her suffer.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
No, it won't. But it sure makes me nerdgasm 86x a day.
Hate on spidey for that.

Originally posted by abhilegend
So you're saying she wasn't on his knees when Superman stopped fighting?

Very well? He punched her once in the entire fight and KTFO her, snapped her arm like a twig and missed every punch because he was hallucinating?

That fight showed how above her he was. In a straight up fight she would've dies within seconds according to that fight if he had thrown her into the sun and not tried to make her suffer.
Remind me which one ended up with bleeding eyes, a broken wrist, and a broken arm?

No one really trusts your interpretation of how the fight went, especially after this Injustice debacle lol.

Here's the full fight for anyone who wants to see their Sacrifice fight.
http://imgur.com/a/GE0Px

Here's Superman seeing Wonder Woman as Doomsday killing Lois:
http://imgur.com/a/i8fmr

I think derailing this thread with your infantile baiting and bitching won't improve it.

Topic is still DCnU WW vs KK. KK is only human, so the point if she can hurt him is moot, the big question is if she can even tag him. He for sure can tag, counter and hurt her easily.

If she can tag Superman, then obviously she can tag Karate Kid.

This is ridiculous

Originally posted by krisblaze
If she can tag Superman, then obviously she can tag Karate Kid.

This is ridiculous

How? It's not about speed but skills,he will predict her move and counter it.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
How? It's not about speed but skills,he will predict her move and counter it.

Note that unlike some brick foes, she's pretty skilled too. Not as much, but KK has been hit in HtH by other martial artists before, so someone who's good but much faster and stronger is dangerous.


Plus, there is some brick tricks that he doesn't have a counter to. If she shatters the ground under his feat, or superspeeds around him outside HtH range with the lasso, or such, there's not too much he can do.

Originally posted by One-Punch
Remind me which one ended up with bleeding eyes, a broken wrist, and a broken arm?

No one really trusts your interpretation of how the fight went, especially after this Injustice debacle lol.

Here's the full fight for anyone who wants to see their Sacrifice fight.
http://imgur.com/a/GE0Px

Here's Superman seeing Wonder Woman as Doomsday killing Lois:
http://imgur.com/a/i8fmr

The problem is Superman was so "bloodlusted" and yet Wonder Woman sneaks up behind him while he is quite literally using his super hearing to try to find her and bonks him on the ears. Which I guess makes sense because he was using his super hearing at the time, but what doesn't make sense is how he failed to even hear her in the first place. He was specifically listening for her. They didn't even throw out some "I'm using an ancient sound masking Amazonian technique". He just didn't hear her because..reasons.

Also we see Superman break her wrist pretty easily, she doesn't come off looking that great especially when they try to feed us lines about how she is "holding back" and yet still manages to not die. This seems to suggest that Wonder Woman has such power that Superman going all out fails to kill her even if she holds back. Which isn't really true no matter how much fighting skill one wants to suggest she has.

Originally posted by Surtur
The problem is Superman was so "bloodlusted" and yet Wonder Woman sneaks up behind him while he is quite literally using his super hearing to try to find her and bonks him on the ears. Which I guess makes sense because he was using his super hearing at the time, but what doesn't make sense is how he failed to even hear her in the first place. He was specifically listening for her. They didn't even throw out some "I'm using an ancient sound masking Amazonian technique".

Also we see Superman break her wrist just by squeezing on it. That doesn't make Wonder Woman look good.

Lol...peers can break each other bones. Zod broke Superman jaw with a blitz...doesn't mean they are equal, it just mean that they are strong enough to hurt each other. Wouldn't call that a low showing for her at all. Especially given the fact that she was holding back and still held an edge.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...peers can break each other bones. Zod broke Superman jaw with a blitz...doesn't mean they are equal, it just mean that they are strong enough to hurt each other. Wouldn't call that a low showing for her at all. Especially given the fact that she was holding back and still held an edge.

Just out of curiosity, in a big wide open field Superman and Wonder Woman fight h2h, both going all out. Who wins?

I mean, you should be saying Wonder Woman, right? After all, if she can "hold an edge" against a bloodlusted Superman whilst holding back, well golly she should be able to outright beat the shit out of him if she tries, correct?

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
How? It's not about speed but skills,he will predict her move and counter it.
That might work for an initial charge like mon-el flying at him.

It wouldn't work for the subsequent 50000 punches her, or her like, could then throw.

Originally posted by One-Punch
I think you're the one doing mental gymnastics to try and convince yourself Superman is winning his Injustice fight lol.

You should post their fight in Superman: Sacrifice. Superman was super blood-lusted since Max Lord made Superman think Wonder Woman was Doomsday, and made him think she killed Lois.

Wonder Woman did extremely well considering she was holding back and Superman was out to kill.



LMFAO. And Superman was hallucinating and yet it was obvious he was still >>>>>>>>>>>>>> WW. FFS, he KHTFO with one friggin' punch and she only woke up because of re-entering the atmosphere! That irrelevant scan you post would never have happened if Clark hadn't changed his mind about throwing her overrated ass into the sun and instead making "her" suffer. Of course, this is also ignoring all the times he treated her like she was a joke and casually handled her without even trying.


Anything else?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Blinding someone when they stop isn't a suckershot?



Did you even read what I said about surfer and firelord you poor sad kid?

Having fun? More like mental gymnastics.
That the only way she can hurt him is by cheapshots?



Otherwise?

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/016-SupermanBatman015Rembrandt-DCP.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/017-SupermanBatman015Rembrandt-DCP.jpg



Talk about an ass kicking.

"Top-tier", my ass.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...peers can break each other bones. Zod broke Superman jaw with a blitz...doesn't mean they are equal, it just mean that they are strong enough to hurt each other. Wouldn't call that a low showing for her at all. Especially given the fact that she was holding back and still held an edge.

There is a HUGE difference between breaking a jaw with a good punch, and snapping someones wrist just by grabbing their hand.

The latters a lot more impressive, and I'm fairly certain also impossible in real life, unless the woman being.grabbed has brittle bone syndrome..

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...peers can break each other bones. Zod broke Superman jaw with a blitz...doesn't mean they are equal, it just mean that they are strong enough to hurt each other. Wouldn't call that a low showing for her at all. Especially given the fact that she was holding back and still held an edge.



LOL. No, they don't get their wrist broken so casually by a "peer" the way Clark broke Diana's. Someone who is someone else's "peer" doesn't try and hide from that person because they know that getting in a cheapshot is their only chance against them. Nor do they get KTFO by that person throwing one punch. Nor do they get "bitchslapped" halfway across the Fortress of Solitude by their supposed "peer" or get dragged by their friggin' neck and taken on a ride to the sun and not be able to do jack**** about it. Someone who is someone else's "peer" doesn't admit to them that "I know I can not beat you" nor do they get treated like their nothing by their supposed "peer" the way that Superman treated Diana on several occasions.



Sorry, try again.

Originally posted by krisblaze
If she can tag Superman, then obviously she can tag Karate Kid.

This is ridiculous

Oh, she'll tag him allright. She fought Flash while blinded, so she could hit him. Countered Hermes as well, who's proven as faster then Superman level..

It wouldn't be a one hit KO anymore then Val would knife hand through her heart, though. I think it would be a pretty good fight.

Originally posted by Star428
LMFAO. And Superman was hallucinating and yet it was obvious he was still >>>>>>>>>>>>>> WW. Forgetting of course that at the end, Wonder Woman actually had Superman with his knees on the ground and his throat cut and gurgling. Originally posted by Star428
Anything else? Yeah, Wonder Woman was holding back the entire time whereas Superman was not holding back AND bloodlusted.

I don't know why some Superman fans are so petrified and threatened of Wonder Woman rising to his level. Reality check: stop ignoring the last 20+ years of comics. Advice: deal with it or stop reading DCnU comics immediately.

Originally posted by One-Punch
Remind me which one ended up with bleeding eyes, a broken wrist, and a broken arm?


Surprise attacks can do that. Funny thing is I saw you defending surfer in the same position against Firelord.

That Superman pushed her shit in and stopped?

If not, they shouldn't read comics.

If you think you can talk me about superman fights, you should think again.

Originally posted by ODG
Forgetting of course that at the end, Wonder Woman actually had Superman with his knees on the ground and his throat cut and gurgling.

Indeed. And let's not forget the middle segment, where she busted his ears, hurt his knee, and bruised his side.


Posters like Star and Abh like to cover their eyes after the first one-third of the fight.


And they act like it's so absurd that we're, y'know, taking in the entire fight including the final results ^^


WW inflicts superior damage to SM surprisingly often.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...peers can break each other bones. Zod broke Superman jaw with a blitz...doesn't mean they are equal, it just mean that they are strong enough to hurt each other. Wouldn't call that a low showing for her at all. Especially given the fact that she was holding back and still held an edge.
Zod broke his jaw with a suckershot.

Superman broke her arm through her bracers just by squeezing.

And what edge? Nothing she did even slowed him down except the tiara toss at the end.

Originally posted by Q99
Indeed. And let's not forget the middle segment, where she busted his ears, hurt his knee, and bruised his side.


Posters like Star and Abh like to cover their eyes after the first one-third of the fight.


And they act like it's so absurd that we're, y'know, taking in the entire fight including the final results ^^


WW inflicts superior damage to SM surprisingly often.
We've been through Q, and you've lost everytime.

She busted his ears with a total suckershot and didn't do any damage to him other than that.

He broke her arm through her bracers, KTFO with one punch and burned to the bones with HV.

All she did was cut his throat which healed in seconds.

Haha, what? Superior damage? Wonder woman said she would die in three blocked punches from Superman.

People still go off topic?

Well Supes vs WW.
There were some tards i had to explain once the difference between this fight and a real WW vs Superman fight or better said a raging Superman who fights like an animal to hurt an animal and an all out superman. Superman going all out, fighting to the best of his abilities is OWAW Superman fighting Imperiex Probes, he is calm, focused without any emotions, oneshottingt hh - trans - Skyfather probes. Against WW he was full of emotions and faught to hurt, except of this he was fighting DD, i know that this is hard to grasp for some but seeing a different opponent means he expects different atracks, tactics etc, fighting a bigger opponent means striking higher etc. Or does anyone think that this won't make a difference?
This fight is not a representative fight between those two, he faught a wrong mental image, was mindmanipulated and didn't onow who his enemy is, she did and had the advantage.
WW vs Superman in Injustice is also as valid as Abhis scans, because those are alternate versions. A real and valid fight of Pre FP Superman vs WW wa seen in the story "for tomorrow" i can't post the scans, maybe someone else can? There both minds were their own, they knew who they are fighting and it was the real mainstream version.

Now to kk vs ww. Again he is not flash or Superman, it's not about the speed it's about skills, he can predict her moves and counter them, like he did against other superfast beings, even with superstrength. She is highly skilled but pales in comparison to him.

Originally posted by Mindset
Lol at butthurt Superman fans.

And here is their last "fight" where Superman isn't hallucinating.

http://i.imgur.com/bTTGYKl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/0ftYh3c.jpg

Superman oneshotted her while not even directly attacking her.

Carver, Q99 and ODG pretend it never happened.

Isn't she...mindcontrolled?

Like Superman? Unlike superman she wasn't hallucinating and fighting a random monster though.

The main difference is that here there was no heat of reentry to wake her up.

mmm

http://i61.tinypic.com/2zpv860.png

He also bitchslapped her the f*ck away from the vanishing machine(machine he had created). The scene: she wants to destroy the machine, she is standing right in front of it with an axe. Superman is like 20-30 feet away. She goes to bring down her axe to destroy it and..Supes blurs over and ***** slaps her away before she could swing a friggin axe down.

Oh then? He literally destroys one of her magic daggers by flickin his blood at it.

Though now the topic is essentially just "bring up Superman vs WW encounters".

I will attempt to comment on the fight then: Karate Kid has more skill, more speed, but less raw strength. But he also has his "I can see weak points on you and hit you there" type stuff, so I think he can do well here.

crylaugh

Superman fans must really hate the Sacrifice fight to low-ball it this much.

It must really eat away at them knowing Superman was at the height of his blood-lust, and Wonder Woman held her own in their extended fight, despite her holding back and trying to save Superman. They act as if Wonder Woman putting up a decent fight against Superman is the most sacrilegious thing in the world.

That neck slice could've been a lot deeper if she actually wanted to kill Superman. Luckily for him, she was trying to save him the whole time.

Nothing to low-ball, dude is breaking her bones just by squeezing. Either way, people know in a fight Wonder Woman couldn't actually beat a competent Superman, so I have no huge issues, I just laugh whenever anyone brings up the ear boink.

He thought he was fighting Doomsday, not Wonder Woman. He was also dealing with grief. Doomsday doesn't wear a tiara, so you have to wonder what Superman was seeing when it got tossed at him. A rock? what? So yes, lucky for him she didn't want to kill him. Lucky for her his super hearing happened to stop functioning at the perfect time. Lucky for her he didn't just grab her and snap her neck with the same ease he broke her other bones. Lots of luck going on in this fight huh?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
http://i61.tinypic.com/2zpv860.png

Superman fans are the easiest to troll.

Originally posted by One-Punch
crylaugh

Superman fans must really hate the Sacrifice fight to low-ball it this much.




This is like me saying surfer fans hate blood and Thunder.

It's not the fight, it's his characterization which suffers in that arc. You are acting like Superman was constantly punching her. It was made clear that in a straight up fight she would've died. Lucky for her, superman missed all his attacks. Otherwise he koed her in a single punch. What were you expecting? That he kills her? If she had put a decent fight, your point would've been valid.

She didn't. He koed her in a single punch, broke her arms with a single squeeze and nearly burned her to the bone. Her attacks did nothing to him, even with a huge suckershot.

A normal human can do that to Superman with a magical knife.



Batman sliced his neck open with a kryptonite knife around the same time, Superman didn't even miss a beat.

And I like how cutting his skin somehow means she could've cut his bones............

If we're bringing pis, Kal breaking Diana's wrist through her bracers should never happen. Unless we're saying Kal has the power to Break through Zeus Aegis.

Originally posted by SquallX
If we're bringing pis, Kal breaking Diana's wrist through her bracers should never happen. Unless we're saying Kal has the power to Break through Zeus Aegis.
He didn't break the bracers. He applied enough pressure that her arm broke.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He didn't break the bracers. He applied enough pressure that her arm broke.

Did you read what you wrote, he applied enough pressure to break his wrist through the bracers.

That meant 2 things happened. He 1, Bent the bracers to snap Diana's wrist, or 2, he overpowered Zeus enchantments on the Bracers that made near unbreakle.

This was the same bracers that can survived Zeus lightning, Darkseid Omega Beams, The shattered God pieces.

Yeah, that wrist snapping as pure bullshit.

Originally posted by SquallX
If we're bringing pis, Kal breaking Diana's wrist through her bracers should never happen. Unless we're saying Kal has the power to Break through Zeus Aegis.

But then if we play the "this should never happen because this person lacks the power" game then we just throw out the entire WW vs Superman fight, since she should never be able to hold back and still take on a bloodlusted Supes.

Originally posted by SquallX
Did you read what you wrote, he applied enough pressure to break his wrist through the bracers.

That meant 2 things happened. He 1, Bent the bracers to snap Diana's wrist, or 2, he overpowered Zeus enchantments on the Bracers that made near unbreakle.

This was the same bracers that can survived Zeus lightning, Darkseid Omega Beams, The shattered God pieces.

Yeah, that wrist snapping as pure bullshit.
Or that the bracers don't negate pressure applied to it.

But wonder woman being right behind him and him unable to sense her isn't PIS, right?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Or that the bracers don't negate pressure applied to it.

But wonder woman being right behind him and him unable to sense her isn't PIS, right?

That's stupid and you know it.

Zeus Aegis, one of the most powerful artifact out there in the DCU that's withstand some of the most powerful attacks out there somehow doesn't negate pressure?

Never said Diana sneaking up on kal wasn't pis. But it can also mean her being a warrior she was train to slow down her heartbeat or breathing.

Diana while blind can also uses the wind to fight while being blind.

Originally posted by SquallX
That's stupid and you know it.

Zeus Aegis, one of the most powerful artifact out there in the DCU that's withstand some of the most powerful attacks out there somehow doesn't negate pressure?

Never said Diana sneaking up on kal wasn't pis. But it can also mean her being a warrior she was train to slow down her heartbeat or breathing.

Diana while blind can also uses the wind to fight while being blind.
You think you know better than Greg Rucka?

It's more stupid than the bracers. At least there is precedence of Superman being able to harm her through her bracers like in WW 175.You can't hide from Superman's senses by slowing down your heart or winds blowing or some shit.

Originally posted by abhilegend
You think you know better than Greg Rucka?

It's more stupid than the bracers. At least there is precedence of Superman being able to harm her through her bracers like in WW 175.You can't hide from Superman's senses by slowing down your heart or winds blowing or some shit.

Because Rucka is a ****ing God that never makes mistakes right? Get off you're high horse. You use any bullshit to clarify any feats for Superman.

Diana's not just anyone genius, she's the chick that's the Gods champions, blessed by them. Trained by an island of warriors since she was a child.

For anything Kal has, Diana has a way to counter it.

Strength, Kal
Skills, Diana
Travel speed, Kal
Fighting reflexes, Diana
Versatility, even.

You actually believe that?

Superman is vastly superior in strength, speed and durability. He has one of the most devastating attacks for any Herald in heat vision.

Wonder Woman's so called skills have never got her a win against a legit Herald. Her only chance against a serious superman is her lasso because she is not knocking him out by physical attacks.

And Lulz at her being faster in reflexes.

how the phukc did this turn into ww vs superman--again?? one of the things that think i'll drop into the suggestion box is simple--keep threads more closely on track. seriously, it's an ancient argument that has it's own thread....geezus h...

Originally posted by leonidas
how the phukc did this turn into ww vs superman--again?? one of the things that think i'll drop into the suggestion box is simple--keep threads more closely on track. seriously, it's an ancient argument that has it's own thread....geezus h...

Tards are the answer to this question.

Originally posted by leonidas
how the phukc did this turn into ww vs superman--again?? one of the things that think i'll drop into the suggestion box is simple--keep threads more closely on track. seriously, it's an ancient argument that has it's own thread....geezus h...

Because of Injustice.

Don't worry. Hopefully, Batffleck will kill Supercavill in BvS, maybe that will silence Superman fans.

Guys, get back on topic.

Now.

Silence? It would be hilarious if Battfleck did that.

But anyways, I think KK wins via precision strikes. Super karate precision strikes.

Wonder Woman wins.

Like others said, holding off superior opponents is one thing, beating them is another story.

Originally posted by Surtur
Silence? It would be hilarious if Battfleck did that.

But anyways, I think KK wins via precision strikes. Super karate precision strikes.

KKs don't really beat full herald bricks even with precision strikes, even ones less skilled and with slower reflexes than WW. They normally just hold them off.

Originally posted by Q99
KKs don't really beat full herald bricks even with precision strikes, even ones less skilled and with slower reflexes than WW. They normally just hold them off.

Actually, Val has beaten Superboy in the past.. Not the version of Val in this thread, but PC Val has.

As we've already established, WW has "somewhat" of a weakness to piercing damage. Therefore, a precision strike has more of a chance of affecting her then it would a Daxamite or Kryptonian.

Personally, I don't think Mantis would be able to KO a Daxamite or Kryptonian with the exact same nerve pinch she used on Thor, either, because of the differences in how their durability works (Thor's taken scratches and various superficial injuries that I can't see Mon El or Superman taking..)

Lord Rand ordered me to inform you that he's displeased with your recent posts.

The Church of Rand is the only Church.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Or that the bracers don't negate pressure applied to it.

But wonder woman being right behind him and him unable to sense her isn't PIS, right?



Course not. It's only PIS when it goes against their hyped-up view of WW.

Originally posted by abhilegend
You think you know better than Greg Rucka?

It's more stupid than the bracers. At least there is precedence of Superman being able to harm her through her bracers like in WW 175.You can't hide from Superman's senses by slowing down your heart or winds blowing or some shit.

Originally posted by cdtm
Actually, Val has beaten Superboy in the past.. Not the version of Val in this thread, but PC Val has.

As we've already established, WW has "somewhat" of a weakness to piercing damage. Therefore, a precision strike has more of a chance of affecting her then it would a Daxamite or Kryptonian.

Personally, I don't think Mantis would be able to KO a Daxamite or Kryptonian with the exact same nerve pinch she used on Thor, either, because of the differences in how their durability works (Thor's taken scratches and various superficial injuries that I can't see Mon El or Superman taking..)

if mantis can, than moondragon can as well, since she beat mantis. neither has close to the feats of val.

Originally posted by leonidas
if mantis can, than moondragon can as well, since she beat mantis. neither has close to the feats of val.

Do you think a Mantis nerve attack would work on, say, Gladiator?

The thing is, you're right in that Val's never KOed Superboy or a Daxamite, and only held them off.. He wasn't even able to KO Persuader with a straight punch. Yet, punching a chunk of metal off a pillar into his face KOed him. Funny how that works.

Originally posted by cdtm
Actually, Val has beaten Superboy in the past.. Not the version of Val in this thread, but PC Val has.

Didn't he just BFR him with a super-judo throw?


And that was Superboy, who wasn't very skilled and walked in to thing. I don't think that'd work on Superman or Wonder Woman's level of skill.

Originally posted by cdtm
Do you think a Mantis nerve attack would work on, say, Gladiator?

The thing is, you're right in that Val's never KOed Superboy or a Daxamite, and only held them off.. He wasn't even able to KO Persuader with a straight punch. Yet, punching a chunk of metal off a pillar into his face KOed him. Funny how that works.

Gladiator's race is actually vulnerable to specific nerve strikes.

As shown when Wolverine one-shotted his son.

Gladiator is a Lil different than his son though. His son didn't go through the Gladiator treatment.

Originally posted by Q99
Didn't he just BFR him with a super-judo throw?


And that was Superboy, who wasn't very skilled and walked in to thing. I don't think that'd work on Superman or Wonder Woman's level of skill.

Basically spun him around like a top, and had him take out other Legion members in the process.

True about Superboys inexperience. In fact, he faced a much earlier version of the Legion, from before he even joined the group.

Originally posted by carver9
Gladiator is a Lil different than his son though. His son didn't go through the Gladiator treatment.

True, but Wolverine was talking about Strontian race in general.

Originally posted by cdtm
Do you think a Mantis nerve attack would work on, say, Gladiator?

The thing is, you're right in that Val's never KOed Superboy or a Daxamite, and only held them off.. He wasn't even able to KO Persuader with a straight punch. Yet, punching a chunk of metal off a pillar into his face KOed him. Funny how that works.

i wouldn't be surprised if it worked on glads. it would be dumb, and he should be more than fast enough to avoid it, but i wouldn't be surprised. now, would it work on hulk....? can't see that happening at all... can't see a modern day val doing it to a modern day superman either though.

Originally posted by cdtm
Basically spun him around like a top, and had him take out other Legion members in the process.

True about Superboys inexperience. In fact, he faced a much earlier version of the Legion, from before he even joined the group.


Right. That stuff is possible against a really inexperienced brick, but Wonder Woman is anything but.

For the hell of it, here's his second fight with the Fatal Five I was talking about:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/CDTM3000/126%20Adventure%20Comics%20378%2012_zpsm4oboy6p.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/CDTM3000/126%20Adventure%20Comics%20378%2013_zps7ppr3hlj.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/CDTM3000/126%20Adventure%20Comics%20378%2014_zpsbb8plytp.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/CDTM3000/126%20Adventure%20Comics%20378%2015_zpsytkuu0qx.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/CDTM3000/126%20Adventure%20Comics%20378%2017_zpsnxqutyw6.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/CDTM3000/126%20Adventure%20Comics%20378%2018_zpsifd5wbax.jpg



The things that stand out for me, are the fact he couldn't really hurt Persuader by punching him, but he could KO him with a metal that may as well be cardboard for all the effort it's taking him.

That, and Val dodged Validus's mental lightning. That's a big time speed feat, as Superboy and Mon El both couldn't avoid it.

His fight with Superboy coming... I realize this isn't the Val in this thread, but just trying to make a point about how Val's normally portrayed across all his incarnations..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/CDTM3000/karate%20kid%2012-16_zpsm9mjgggn.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/CDTM3000/karate%20kid%2013-01_zpslas7iqhf.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/CDTM3000/karate%20kid%2012-17_zpsmbowlidd.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/CDTM3000/karate%20kid%2013-02_zpslreldtag.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/CDTM3000/karate%20kid%2013-03_zpsiyi4njcn.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/CDTM3000/karate%20kid%2013-04_zpsngba3btt.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/CDTM3000/karate%20kid%2013-05_zpszyphucku.jpg

Ok, so in both of these fights Val shows off almost the entire spectrum of speed brick powers.. He shows Flash/Kryptonian level speed, strength and what not.

I mean, look at that hold he has Superboy in. It's laughable that someone with no super powers could not only restrain him, but use him as a human shield and spin him around like a top against his will.

So why can't he KO him with a normal punch? Or Persuader, for that matter?

This isn't something that's changed across versions.. Val's NEVER been able to really hurt anyone with invulnerability, despite all his showings saying he should be capable of it. Equus is more the exception, then the rule.



Anyways, I'll leave off with this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/CDTM3000/karate%20kid%2014-16_zpsgdgmvcdx.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/CDTM3000/karate%20kid%2014-17_zpst0m0ygrs.jpg

Just because Robin punched through diamond.

I'll just put this in here, in case anyones wondering how impressed they should be that Val defeated Persuader:


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/CDTM3000/LSuperboy%20amp%20LSH%20231-11_zpsow7pbs3u.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/CDTM3000/LSuperboy%20amp%20LSH%20231-12_zpsa280b1f0.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/CDTM3000/LSuperboy%20amp%20LSH%20231-13_zpspvk7w3hc.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/CDTM3000/LSuperboy%20amp%20LSH%20231-23_zpsod3ubn5q.jpg



Even working together, Mon El and Superboy were struggling with him, and you can see Persuader holding off Mon El 1 vs 1. (It's also not the first time he's cut through gravity, showing off the power of that axe.)

So he's a pretty formidable brick, if not quite on their level, or anywhere near Validus's.

Karate PIS, Karate PIS everywhere. It's worse than Loebforce.

lol but back then, pretty well anything was considered ok. i mean, can you imagine someone having 'super karate' as a power now-a-days? lol

I liked how ordinary fist-fighting from Gotham City got KK's face all bruised and bloody. That's how he should be written all the time.

Do i smell some butthurt because kk is vastly superior to any ma in comic? Marvel or DC?

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Do i smell some butthurt because kk is vastly superior to any ma in comic? Marvel or DC?

Read more comics

Originally posted by krisblaze
Read more comics

Now it smells stronger, plug this thumb back in your a## where you pulled it out. ^^

Didn't Mantis trip the Runner? And for my money, wave riding out Thanos's energy attack is as impressive as any feat from a MAer.

In terms of wins though, manhandling PC Superboy is hard to top.. You can argue he didn't actually knock him out with a strike, but the way he did take him out (And Cham confirmed it had "knocked the stuffing out of him", as if he was a 98 lb weakling instead of a planet juggler is pretty absurd.