Wolverine vs.... THE KNOCK OUT!

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jinzin
Okay the point of this thread is simple.

I think we've all had our fair share of arguments as to what can and can't put Logan down in a forum fight... and while it makes for nice post-taking space, it really tends to derail conversations and makes for some slightly stupid fights. Let's just get past that already.

If people have scans/scan of Wolverine getting knocked out or incapped, then post it here.

If the scan holds up as legitimate evidence and can not be turned away by explanation of context etc... Then it must be countered by evidence of Wolverine not being knocked out by similar/worse damage.


This isn't a pissing contest or a bash-fest guys... this is just a little game.

Have fun with it. smile

Starscream M
this isn't a vs thread. bada will prob move it.

Wild Shadow
hmmm... He was knocked out by Romulus and the butt of his sword handle..

dmills
Not to be facetious, but if someone posts a scan of Wolverine being ko'ed, and then a counter scan of him tanking or surviving something worse is posted, then what's the point of the thread?

jinzin
Originally posted by dmills
Not to be facetious, but if someone posts a scan of Wolverine being ko'ed, and then a counter scan of him tanking or surviving something worse is posted, then what's the point of the thread?
To have fun....?


Like I stated, it's just a game. confused

Wild Shadow
Originally posted by jinzin
To have fun....?


Like I stated, it's just a game. confused jinzin can you post the sword butt knock out.. i cant locate it and the one in the respect thread of logan doesnt have that panel..

anyways Mr. X ko'ed him in their 1st fight.. and later in the second issue of the story said did blok or Ogun which ever you want to call him at that time.

dmills
Originally posted by jinzin To have fun....? Ok. If that's your idea of a good time you must be really boredstick out tongue

jinzin
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
jinzin can you post the sword butt knock out.. i cant locate it and the one in the respect thread of logan doesnt have that panel..

anyways Mr. X ko'ed him in their 1st fight.. and later in the second issue of the story said did blok or Ogun which ever you want to call him at that time.

I can get the scan but all three of those examples had context that pushed for Logan's healing factor to be a little taxed if not a lot taxed.

Maybe I should have been more clear about that part.

jinzin
Originally posted by dmills
Ok. If that's your idea of a good time you must be really boredstick out tongue Well..... I AM at work.. lol

Digi
Wolverine's been around forever, in like a billion comics. You'll be able to find both extremes, just like there's awesome feats for Spidey and horrible ones. Or any popular character whose powers need to fluctuate for the story. Which ones hold more weight to any of us will largely depend on which side we're taking in a given fight.

I don't disagree with the stips of the thread, but I can't see anything constructive coming out of this.

KuRuPT Thanosi
Originally posted by jinzin
I can get the scan but all three of those examples had context that pushed for Logan's healing factor to be a little taxed if not a lot taxed.

Maybe I should have been more clear about that part.

Scans that reference his healing factor being taxed and this was the cause of him being KO... I don't want your conjecture I want scans saying such.

SamZED
According to some brilliant writers - some stupid gorilla > Hulk.erm

chomperx9
Originally posted by SamZED
According to some brilliant writers - some stupid gorilla > Hulk.erm grodd >>> Hulk ? no way

Wild Shadow
Pip the troll got the drop on logan and wammied him with a rock to the back of the head during infinity war.. he went down not sure if he was ko'ed i have vague memory of logan rubbing his head while on the ground.

The Nuul
So, wait...is this just a bait thread and hes fishing for scans as proof that Logan can be KOed?

chomperx9
Originally posted by The Nuul
So, wait...is this just a bait thread and hes fishing for scans as proof that Logan can be KOed? logan can be KOed. killed no

jinzin
Originally posted by Digi
Wolverine's been around forever, in like a billion comics. You'll be able to find both extremes, just like there's awesome feats for Spidey and horrible ones. Or any popular character whose powers need to fluctuate for the story. Which ones hold more weight to any of us will largely depend on which side we're taking in a given fight.

I don't disagree with the stips of the thread, but I can't see anything constructive coming out of this. Digi if you don't have anything positive to contribute I'll have to report you! mad

jinzin
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Scans that reference his healing factor being taxed and this was the cause of him being KO... I don't want your conjecture I want scans saying such.
That won't be necessary, we know that damage takes it's toll on Wolverine's healing factor.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
Pip the troll got the drop on logan and wammied him with a rock to the back of the head during infinity war.. he went down not sure if he was ko'ed i have vague memory of logan rubbing his head while on the ground.

Yeah that might count, I'll have to run through the infinity series to check it out again.
If he is down for a count, and we get the scan up that'll be:

Wolverine: 0

Knock Outs: 1

Originally posted by The Nuul
So, wait...is this just a bait thread and hes fishing for scans as proof that Logan can be KOed?

No baiting. It's just a game.

I figured the logan-hating masses can come in here and try to prove their case that Logan can be KOed by conventional means in a forum fight and his supporters can counter that with proof of their own.

This is free of namecalling, insulting, and belittlement. It's just a matchup of sheer statistics.

psycho gundam
if you want to get classic/technical, logan's head trauma from various hulk persona's "should" be the litmus test for him.

savage knocked him around but he wasn't done.

he fought gray hulk in a classic fight back in the day with hulk delivering some nice face punches, inconclusive end though.

skip to king hulk scrambling his brain. i guess it depends on how many shots it took to make him comatose, could have been the second one or the last.

i guess they are considered high showings by average, but he did take square face shots from the hulk and like...daredevil or cage couldn't do that.

Digi
Originally posted by jinzin
Digi if you don't have anything positive to contribute I'll have to report you! mad

fdog

But there's a reason you had to mention that this thread wasn't to bash. We know there's a strong possibility of that, and it's because the nature of the thread won't lend itself to super nice discussions. I trust you, just not everyone.

But I think we all know that evidence on both sides could be found, and that which is more true will be in the eye of the beholder. I really don't see this as any different than 1000 other similar threads that could be made about character (can magic affect Superman? would be another obvious one), where no "winner" would be found.

But like you said, my own contributions aren't adding anything at this point, so I won't be posting anymore here. I mostly just wanted to let it be known that I was watching the thread, as sort of a proactive curb to potential bashing.

jinzin
REPORTED!

dmills
I know where this thread is going because I know why it was started.












Have fun fellas. I'll check back in at page 40 or so.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by psycho gundam
skip to king hulk scrambling his brain. i guess it depends on how many shots it took to make him comatose, could have been the second one or the last.

He was still slashing him till, I dunno, 6th or 7th shot...

Wild Shadow
umm...Rough house Ko'ed logan when he had him chained up to a wall.. shifty

Lord_Talron
i guess posting scans in this thread is out of the question... and i was all excited too

amnesia
Originally posted by Lord_Talron
i guess posting scans in this thread is out of the question... and i was all excited too

FEAR NOT! I DO HAVE SCANS!!!

Lord_Talron
nice!

jinzin
Originally posted by amnesia
FEAR NOT! I DO HAVE SCANS!!!

Sorry I can not qualify that... It was old school Logan and he wasn't even knocked out by the end of it. erm

Battlehammer
Originally posted by amnesia
FEAR NOT! I DO HAVE SCANS!!!
He been fighting all day, got blind sided and if the other page was shown, Logan was not even knocked out.........

-Pr-
I really don't know if this should remain open, tbh.

Badabing
Originally posted by -Pr-
I really don't know if this should remain open, tbh. durverine hater!

-Pr-
Originally posted by Badabing
durverine hater!

laughing out loud

Badabing
Originally posted by Digi
Wolverine's been around forever, in like a billion comics. You'll be able to find both extremes, just like there's awesome feats for Spidey and horrible ones. Or any popular character whose powers need to fluctuate for the story. Which ones hold more weight to any of us will largely depend on which side we're taking in a given fight.

I don't disagree with the stips of the thread, but I can't see anything constructive coming out of this. Pretty much truth. High/low feats happen to all popular characters.

Originally posted by -Pr-
laughing out loud stick out tongue

But the thread should probably be closed. Logan isn't immune to being KOed. Sufficient force, energy or even pinpoint hits on nerve/pressure points work on every character despite durability, damage soak, healing, etc.

Lord_Talron
mmm

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Badabing
Pretty much truth. High/low feats happen to all popular characters.

stick out tongue

But the thread should probably be closed. Logan isn't immune to being KOed. Sufficient force, energy or even pinpoint hits on nerve/pressure points work on every character despite durability, damage soak, healing, etc.

Every character except Guy Gardner. biscuits

Badabing
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Every character except Guy Gardner. biscuits I never like being proved wrong...uhuh


Unless it's in Guy Gardner's favor! woot slide

Wild Shadow
the only one i ever seriously question which started the modern trend of logan being knocked out more regularly was the mister X moment it seems after that it just started spiraling down hill with the KO moments and he started talling Ko'es left in right reaching the to hand count

Mindset
I hope Wolverine gets knocked out and NEVER WAKES UP!

jinzin
Originally posted by Badabing
Pretty much truth. High/low feats happen to all popular characters.

stick out tongue

But the thread should probably be closed. Logan isn't immune to being KOed. Sufficient force, energy or even pinpoint hits on nerve/pressure points work on every character despite durability, damage soak, healing, etc.

Lies! Bring your proof you overgrown cologne depository! Or I'll have you reported for trolling! With durs no less!

dmills
Originally posted by Mindset
I hope Wolverine gets knocked out and NEVER WAKES UP! You big fat meanie!

jinzin
Anyone else find it odd that the mods derailed this thread faster than anybody else?

Doctor-Alvis
Originally posted by jinzin
Okay the point of this thread is simple.

I think we've all had our fair share of arguments as to what can and can't put Logan down in a forum fight... and while it makes for nice post-taking space, it really tends to derail conversations and makes for some slightly stupid fights. Let's just get past that already.

If people have scans/scan of Wolverine getting knocked out or incapped, then post it here.

If the scan holds up as legitimate evidence and can not be turned away by explanation of context etc... Then it must be countered by evidence of Wolverine not being knocked out by similar/worse damage.


This isn't a pissing contest or a bash-fest guys... this is just a little game.

Have fun with it. smile
Now I may be just be a simple Hyper-Chicken from a backwoods asteroid, but it seems to me only Wolverine's highest showings can win this game.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by amnesia
FEAR NOT! I DO HAVE SCANS!!!

Fail.

-Pr-
Originally posted by jinzin
Anyone else find it odd that the mods derailed this thread faster than anybody else?

no expression

Deadline
Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
Now I may be just be a simple Hyper-Chicken from a backwoods asteroid, but it seems to me only Wolverine's highest showings can win this game.

amnesia
Originally posted by Battlehammer
He been fighting all day, got blind sided and if the other page was shown, Logan was not even knocked out.........


But there is no way he would beat wonderman though.

Wild Shadow
Originally posted by amnesia
But there is no way he would beat wonderman though. stab him and rupture his skin creating an ionic explosion temporarily killing WM and logan.. logan wins b/c he comes back 1st

amnesia
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
stab him and rupture his skin creating an ionic explosion temporarily killing WM and logan.. logan wins b/c he comes back 1st


He can't damage energy, anyway. Wonderman is a LOT faster and he can fly. Wolverine ain't touching him.

Warlord
unlike most people think WM can and has ben damadged before by physical force. even bruised.

Wolvies claws could kill him. although in a fight between them I would go with WM

Tha C-Master
Originally posted by Badabing

But the thread should probably be closed. Logan isn't immune to being KOed. Sufficient force, energy or even pinpoint hits on nerve/pressure points work on every character despite durability, damage soak, healing, etc. Not even close, and being Ko'ed and regenerating "damage" don't really affect the other either. erm

Wild Shadow
anyways.. Captain america for the famous shield bash Ko..

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
anyways.. Captain america for the famous shield bash Ko..

Not a valid example.

Wild Shadow
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Not a valid example. the 1st famous fight with shingen... with the beating the snot out of logan and finishing with a jumping stomp to the old noggin for a ko..

Warlord
does the fight from Thor vs Wolverine count?

Wild Shadow
Originally posted by Warlord
does the fight from Thor vs Wolverine count? he wasnt ko'ed.. wink

Warlord
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
he wasnt ko'ed.. wink


ah I get it... eek!

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
the 1st famous fight with shingen... with the beating the snot out of logan and finishing with a jumping stomp to the old noggin for a ko..

He was poisoned first.

Wild Shadow
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
He was poisoned first. i know.. i am having fun though with these..

Deadline
Hmm Gorgon was kicking his arse on numerous ocassions...

Wild Shadow
when did Gorgan actually just ko'ed punch/kick logan?

pretty sure stabbing bleeding was the main cause plus having a slower hf due to missing his soul and lower will power/skill

Deadline
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
when did Gorgan actually just ko'ed punch logan?

He didn't but it was pretty obvious that he could KO him even without punching him. Hell one example had Wolverine on his hands and knees stunned.

Wild Shadow
and you think him fighting Gorgan with a piece of logan's soul missing effecting him physical and mentally some how is a bad showing for logan whe he was fighting Gorgan whose powers were just off the roof?

logan was not just taking blunt force damage but stabbings, slashes from an extremely skilled MA fighter swords man while handicapped...

so even with Gorgan punching him and stunning him logan wasnt ko'ed and if he were obviously it took a lot to put him at that lvl

Deadline
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
and you think him fighting Gorgan with a piece of logan's soul missing effecting him physical and mentally some how is a bad showing for logan whe he was fighting Gorgan whose powers were just off the roof?

logan was not just taking blunt force damage but stabbings, slashes from an extremely skilled MA fighter swords man while handicapped...

sp even with Gorgan punching him and stunning im logan wasnt ko'ed and if he were obviously it took a lot to put him at that lvl

When it was wriitten the writers were not writing a story for Wolverine with a missing part of his soul.

Wild Shadow
Originally posted by Deadline
When it was wriitten the writers were not writing a story for Wolverine with a missing part of his soul. but they had to find a way to explain how he could die or be taken down with a single sword stab to his stomach.. wink

Deadline
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
but they had to find a way to explain how he could die or be taken down with a single sword stab to his stomach.. wink


Oh rrrrreally did you ask the author or are you making assumnptions AGAIN?

Wild Shadow
Originally posted by Deadline
Oh rrrrreally did you ask the author or are you making assumptions AGAIN?
facepalm

isnt this kinda like hypocrisy with your statement about the writers not having written the missing soul part till later.. how do you know it wasnt the plan all along?

Deadline
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
facepalm

isnt this kinda like hypocrisy with your statement about the writers not having written the missing soul part till later.. how do you know it wasnt the plan all along?

1. How is it hypocrisy?
2. It might have been but thats pure speculation. Do you have any PROOF thats what they were trying to do?

Wild Shadow
i can prove it takes more then a single stab to the stomach to kill, ko logan with past precedence of the exact same situation using both random ppl or highly skilled MA'ers..

like Shingen, Silver samurai, caveman's spear... lady Deathstrike.. etc etc.. and even swords to his heart not stopping him

jalek moye
I dont get this, is this suppsoe to prove its impossible to knock him out because he has a high end showing better then showings where he does lose?

Deadline
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
i can prove it takes more then a single stab to the stomach to kill, ko logan with past precedence of the exact same situation using both random ppl or highly skilled MA'ers..

like Shingen, Silver samurai, caveman's spear... lady Deathstrike.. etc etc.. and even swords to his heart not stopping him

Um I think LD almost killed Wolverine by stabbing him in the heart. Also Gorgon is more skilled than any of those.

Wild Shadow
Originally posted by jalek moye
I dont get this, is this suppsoe to prove its impossible to knock him out because he has a high end showing better then showings where he does lose? no.. simply the few low showing dont outweigh his average nor high showings to claim he will lose consistently by ko by using the low showing as the constant norm for his ko vulnerability..

just taking count and context


just b/c logan has bn ko;ed by less a few times doesnt mean that is what will happen consistently in a forum fight

Wild Shadow
Originally posted by Deadline
Um I think LD almost killed Wolverine by stabbing him in the heart. Also Gorgon is more skilled than any of those. are you referring to their 1st fight when logan had to hide under a porch to heal? pls explain the situation i cant recall..

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
i know.. i am having fun though with these..

Yeah, me too. Carry on big grin

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
when did Gorgan actually just ko'ed punch/kick logan?

pretty sure stabbing bleeding was the main cause plus having a slower hf due to missing his soul and lower will power/skill

His HF wasn't slower because of that.


I was gonna use Blood Shadow instance... but then I remembered Logan tanked "Flames of the Faltine" spell right prior to that fight.

Wild Shadow
awehgun

StiltmanFTW
laughing out loud

Wild Shadow
the time the thing ko'ed him with a hammer punch to the top of the noggin during secret war

Badabing
Originally posted by jinzin
Lies! Bring your proof you overgrown cologne depository! Or I'll have you reported for trolling! With durs no less! laughing out loud & sneerOriginally posted by jinzin
Anyone else find it odd that the mods derailed this thread faster than anybody else? Considering this isn't a versus thread and not an important topic...


biscuits

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
the time the thing ko'ed him with a hammer punch to the top of the noggin during secret war

He was already dazed.


lulz this is fun indeed

Wild Shadow
starting to run low on ko'es.. i am really tired..

The Real Wolvie
Originally posted by Deadline
1. How is it hypocrisy?
2. It might have been but thats pure speculation. Do you have any PROOF thats what they were trying to do?


It's completely irrelivant. The point is that we know now that Logan WAS in fact missing a piece of his soul. Whether or not that was the original point doesn't even slightly matter....


Wolverine was originally not supposed to have a healing factor and his claws were part of his freaking gloves. It was never the intention of the writer to make them part of his implants? Oh, and then fiften freakin years later, it was revealed that they were part of his bone structure. Which was clearly never the intention of Chris Clarmont (one of the original writers) as Logan had silicon housings that came out of his skin which magically disappeared after it was revealed that his claws were natural. smokin' laughing

The Real Wolvie
Originally posted by Deadline
Um I think LD almost killed Wolverine by stabbing him in the heart. Also Gorgon is more skilled than any of those.


Ummm no Wolverine literally back-handed her off as soon as he was done toying with her. Unless you are referring to an earlier encounter.

jinzin
Originally posted by jalek moye
I dont get this, is this suppsoe to prove its impossible to knock him out because he has a high end showing better then showings where he does lose?

No this is just about numerical percentages.. There are those who think Wolverine can be knocked out without having to negotiate around his healing factor... We'll determine the likelyhood of this even happening.

jinzin
Originally posted by Badabing
laughing out loud & sneer Considering this isn't a versus thread and not an important topic...


biscuits

More of your lies!

"vs" is right in the title of the thread! FORESHAME!

jinzin
Gorgon never successfully knocked Logan out on panel so we can't count their encounters.

As for the Thing encounter... I'm gonna count it.... Wolverine was launched at Thing by Rogue and hit him hard but in spite of what reed said about Logan being dazed I don't see any reason for this to be discounted.

So far we have Pip the troll and Thing with a Bonk!

Wolverine:0

Knockouts:2


But please people we need some scans here!

Badabing
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/Marvel/Marvel%20Scans/th_Untitled-Scanned-01-9.jpg
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/Marvel/Marvel%20Scans/th_167725-wolverine_400.jpg
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/Marvel/Marvel%20Scans/th_cycownswolvie2.png
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/Marvel/Marvel%20Scans/th_star20trek203.jpg
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/Marvel/Marvel%20Scans/th_wolvebbed.png
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/Marvel/Marvel%20Scans/th_dd73nf.jpg

Badabing
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/Marvel/Marvel%20Scans/th_thingvswolverine28ab.jpg
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/Marvel/Marvel%20Scans/th_ultxmenf401221cp.jpg
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/Marvel/Marvel%20Scans/th_wolverine18006.jpg
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/Marvel/Marvel%20Scans/th_wolverine4506ee5.jpg
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/Marvel/Marvel%20Scans/th_logan12jz.jpg
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/Marvel/Marvel%20Scans/th_theinfinitygauntlet0422wg8.jpg

The Real Wolvie
Let the onslaught of Wolverine points begin!!


Wolverine takes a full-blown shot from the big C - and to Peter's Amazement, Logan lands on his feet similar to how a cat would land if you dropped it from about two feet off the ground. The guys not even hurt.

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/9039/colossusswatiq7.jpg


Wolverine - 1

Knockouts - 2


Wolverine takes another shot from the big C only to get right back up

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/945/dvx3ee2.jpg

Wolverine has tied the score at 2 a piece!

Wolverine takes some serious punishment from Grey Hulk...no where he unconscious.

http://img468.imageshack.us/img468/9461/hulk340pg18viciouscirclqf6.jpg


Wolverine 3

Knocouts 2

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by jinzin
Gorgon never successfully knocked Logan out on panel so we can't count their encounters.

thumb up


Sasquatch two-shotted him.

http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/4008/theuncannyxmen12028.th.jpg http://img686.imageshack.us/img686/7825/theuncannyxmen12031.th.jpg

And I'm countering that example with this one:

Originally posted by jinzin
=========
Sasquatch
=========


In their more recent encounter, there is a DEFINITE defference here than there was the last time they fought; Walt beats Wolverine "like a rug", Wolvie just smile and starts cracking smart ass remarks:
1. http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/6668/newsasquatch2fj5.jpg
2. http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/9057/newsasquatch3vo3.jpg
3. http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/7382/newsasquatch4hk0.jpg
4. http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/1673/newsasquatch5pv4.jpg (included for humor)

Originally posted by Badabing


OK, I know you posted these just for lulz, but I'll still reply...


1 - Hooded Man, not 616 Logan.

2 - Wolverine was in fatal shape, to put it lightly.

3 - Ultimate

4 - non 616

5 - didn't happen in a fight and should it even be here?

6 - stunned, not KO'd. He's taken worse anyway.

7 - is that even canon?

8 - Ultimate

9 - didn't knock him out

10 - worst example ever

11 - Logan's taken a direct hit to the head from pissed off Savage Hulk and kept fighting. +1 for Wolverine I guess.

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/8682/sixhours1.th.jpg http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/6995/sixhours2.th.jpg

12 - don't think it belongs here...

The Real Wolvie
Originally posted by Badabing
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/Marvel/Marvel%20Scans/th_thingvswolverine28ab.jpg
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/Marvel/Marvel%20Scans/th_ultxmenf401221cp.jpg
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/Marvel/Marvel%20Scans/th_wolverine18006.jpg
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/Marvel/Marvel%20Scans/th_wolverine4506ee5.jpg
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/Marvel/Marvel%20Scans/th_logan12jz.jpg
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/Marvel/Marvel%20Scans/th_theinfinitygauntlet0422wg8.jpg



Oh dude, you are trying to cheat...

You used ultimate universe with the THING bar room fight

The first THING fight might count but let's see Logan unconcious not just beaten down.

The Namor thing was after multiple blows and his HF was clearly taxed.

Thanos knockout looks legit but let's see how he did it..

The last THING fight looks legit..

Badabing
Originally posted by The Real Wolvie
Oh dude, you are trying to cheat...

You used ultimate universe with the THING bar room fight

The first THING fight might count but let's see Logan unconcious not just beaten down.

The Namor thing was after multiple blows and his HF was clearly taxed.

Thanos knockout looks legit but let's see how he did it..

The last THING fight looks legit.. It's a joke between me and Jinzin from way back. laughing out loud

durverine

jinzin
and it was STILL pretty funny. laughing out loud

Badabing
Originally posted by jinzin
and it was STILL pretty funny. laughing out loud I think you and Battlehammer were the first posters I spoke to because of my goofy scans and posts.

I'd be like "Wolverine lost to an elk. Spidey>>>>elk."

stick out tongue

Too bad the dur wasn't invented back then.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/8682/sixhours1.th.jpg http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/6995/sixhours2.th.jpg the second page didn't make any sense:

if hulk can not only get a good hold onto the claws but also use said grip to seemingly pull on them outward to cause wolverine pain all the while not cutting himself, how on earth did wolverine retract the claws at all? wolverine's ....claw muscles > hulk's hands?

The Real Wolvie
Originally posted by psycho gundam
the second page didn't make any sense:

if hulk can not only get a good hold onto the claws but also use said grip to seemingly pull on them outward to cause wolverine pain all the while not cutting himself, how on earth did wolverine retract the claws at all? wolverine's ....claw muscles > hulk's hands?

Yes, given how sharp the claws are...they cut Hulk skin easy. It should have perhaps been a slower retract but non-the-less Hulks hands would be cut....


As a matter of fact, Hulk is probably holding on loosely..think about it - if Hulk used his full strength to grib the claws what would happen? Ouch....he'd cut right into his own hands?

The Real Wolvie
So it should be 4-3 Wolverine now considering Stiltman's post and my post...

psycho gundam
Originally posted by The Real Wolvie
Yes, given how sharp the claws are...they cut Hulk skin easy. It should have perhaps been a slower retract but non-the-less Hulks hands would be cut....


As a matter of fact, Hulk is probably holding on loosely..think about it - if Hulk used his full strength to grib the claws what would happen? Ouch....he'd cut right into his own hands? he was pulling wolverine's arms apart enough to cause him pain.

with was about to do this:

gFTaWEHaB0M

srankmissingnin
Anything prior to Uncanny 142 is technically Wolverine sans healing factor... so does that Sasquatch feat even count?

The Real Wolvie
Originally posted by psycho gundam
he was pulling wolverine's arms apart enough to cause him pain.

with was about to do this:

gFTaWEHaB0M


Can't be done or it would have happened long time ago...Ba'al tried and failed.

Also, he would have cut through his own hands by gripping too hard...so he was most likely just holding loosely enough for Wolverine to retract his claws and yet still applying enough pressure to pull on Logan's body.

psycho gundam
i just wanted to post that okay

anyway, wolverine's claw muscles shouldn't have been able to do that unhindered

srankmissingnin
Dragging his claws along a table cut straight through a shot glass with almost no force. They are sharp. If it wasn't for the adamantium sheathes in his forearms, I say the weight of his claws alone would cause them to cut straight through the flesh / muscle in his arm and fall out.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Dragging his claws along a table cut straight through a shot glass with almost no force. They are sharp. If it wasn't for the adamantium sheathes in his forearms, I say the weight of his claws alone would cause them to cut straight through the flesh / muscle in his arm and fall out. sure, but that also tells you what hulk was making contact with while stretching him.

hulk most likely wasn't lightly gripping down on his claws

Wild Shadow
hmm.. i just recalled a famous ko that no one even bothered to bring up.. Sentry ko'ing logan.. also 1st time we see his claw muscles actually torn when guys like hulk and ba'al couldnt.. suspicious?

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
hmm.. i just recalled a famous ko that no one even bothered to bring up.. Sentry ko'ing logan.. also 1st time we see his claw muscles actually torn when guys like hulk and ba'al couldnt.. suspicious?

lol, Wild, it's Sentry.

Wild Shadow
lets leave out the fact that logan was nearly bled to death a few second prior by have his throat torn out and sliced open by a ban saw.. shifty

so what really is the count without any bias and legit ko'es?

and i also agree with srank about old school logan b4 HF and mention of his ada.. not counting when he 1st came out early in his career..

The Real Wolvie
Originally posted by psycho gundam
sure, but that also tells you what hulk was making contact with while stretching him.

hulk most likely wasn't lightly gripping down on his claws



Exactly....but that would mean that the claws were already digging in...like the force from Hulks strength was causing the claws to cut into Hulk's hands...you can't grab something that sharp with 100 class strength full force and NOT have it cut into like that...and then Wolverine would just have to retract considering that the claws would already be digging in pretty good and well they would just slide. Hulk is STUPID in this and didn't seem to realise that he's gripping unbreakable blades with his full strength. Maybe the claws should have retracted a bit slower and maybe Wolverine should have had to wiggle them but it makes no difference as the claws would have already been digging into his hands.


Anyway, back on topic..

Wolverine's in the lead 4-3....about to make it 7-3 hehe..


Unless anyone wants to tie the score??

psycho gundam
Originally posted by The Real Wolvie
Exactly....but that would mean that the claws were already digging in...like the force from Hulks strength was causing the claws to cut into Hulk's hands...you can't grab something that sharp with 100 class strength full force and NOT have it cut into like that...and then Wolverine would just have to retract considering that the claws would already be digging in pretty good and well they would just slide. Hulk is STUPID in this and didn't seem to realise that he's gripping unbreakable blades with his full strength. Maybe the claws should have retracted a bit slower and maybe Wolverine should have had to wiggle them but it makes no difference as the claws would have already been digging into his hands.
hulk shouldn't be able to pull on them as hard as we was is what i mean, and on top of that logan getting out of his grip by using his tiny claw muscles only....

anyway, this is getting old

Wild Shadow
then was the time when juggernaut pimp slapped logan for a ko early in his career..

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
hmm.. i just recalled a famous ko that no one even bothered to bring up.. Sentry ko'ing logan.. also 1st time we see his claw muscles actually torn when guys like hulk and ba'al couldnt.. suspicious?

Ba'al didn't try. Steve Rogers doing that, now that was silly.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
then was the time when juggernaut pimp slapped logan for a ko early in his career..

Logan took multiple hits before the pimp slap.

Wild Shadow
nonsense if that were true why are their dozens of scans all over comic sites showing a single pimp slap roll eyes (sarcastic) and ppl saying how easy it is to ko logan

KuRuPT Thanosi
This thread is an epic fail

Deadline
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Steve Rogers doing that, now that was silly.



Whats silly?

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Deadline
Whats silly?

Crushing his forearm tendons.

Wild Shadow
well if you read the series logan was being run ragged fighting ppl repeatedly scanning the radio.. taking on nuke.. then cap logan wasnt running at a 100% and even if he was which many will argue he was you gotta look who did that to him a guy who can ko a mad hulk cap aint a light weight in the strength department

Deadline
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Crushing his forearm tendons.

You don't think there was more to it than just brute strength?


Originally posted by Wild Shadow
well if you read the series logan was being run ragged fighting ppl repeatedly scanning the radio.. taking on nuke.. then cap logan wasnt running at a 100% and even if he was which many will argue he was you gotta look who did that to him a guy who can ko a mad hulk cap aint a light weight in the strength department

Oh man forget it. What really cracks me up is that you feel your in the position to take the piss. When its basically what you guys do all the time.

The only thing that can KO Wolverine is class 100 strength and if its anything less there is always reason. Maybe the reason why you guys are ALWAYS able to give a good reason for Wolverine being Koed isn't because you guys are genuises maybe just maybe you guys are good at creating reasons.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Deadline
You don't think there was more to it than just brute strength?

I don't. He did that in one panel. Not effortlessly, but still.

And what are your thoughts on this?

Deadline
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
I don't. He did that in one panel. Not effortlessly, but still.

And what are your thoughts on this?

I don't have a problem at all hes Captain America for crying out loud. Hes been able to stun Professor Hulk and hurt Korvac with his bare hands. erm

Wild Shadow
let me ask you did you read the story arc?

i never said it takes a 100 tonner b/c it clearly doesnt various ppl of various lvls have ko'ed him but if you bother to read the stories rather then sight single scans where he gets ko'ed you see it is more then a person getting one lucky punch if you wanna say he can be ko'ed and hurt thats fine but sight the context of his loss and back story dont just go in and post so and so ko'ed him its easy to do.. b/c at the end of the day it isnt and in many and many stories ppl have had entire plans to weaken logan just so they can kill him perfect example was in wolverine #119 not dead yet where a hit man who was logan's drinking buddy had studied logan and knew what it took to kill him.... now i dont mind cap injury logan b/c i took the story in its entire context and knew the back story of what logan was going through how each issue left off and started right back in the same situation.. this isnt logan fighting one guy and a month later he is in the X mansion off to his next fight.. logan was finishing his fight and in the next issue you see him coming straight to his hiding whole planning his next move and tracking down leads and go off to it..
i mean his entire arc logan was on the go operating of very little sleep he clearly was not at optimal lvl.. but lets say he was do you really think logan will continue to have a nose bleed through an entire issue?do you think his HF fluctuates that much writer to writer?

answer me this how many wolverine series have you read?

dmills
So unless Wolverine is at optimal levels a ko wont count against him? He has to have gotten the proper rest, eaten his breakfast, taken his vitamins and drank his gatorade before a ko is deemed legit?

Deadline
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
let me ask you did you read the story arc?

Yeah. Now what?

Originally posted by Wild Shadow

i never said it takes a 100 tonner b/c it clearly doesnt various ppl of various lvls have ko'ed him but if you bother to read the stories rather then sight single scans where he gets ko'ed you see it is more then a person getting one lucky punch if you wanna say he can be ko'ed and hurt thats fine but sight the context of his loss and back story dont just go in and post so and so ko'ed him its easy to do.. b/c at the end of the day it isnt and in many and many stories ppl have had entire plans to weaken logan just so they can kill him perfect example was in wolverine #119 not dead yet where a hit man who was logan's drinking buddy had studied logan and knew what it took to kill him.... now i dont mind cap injury logan b/c i took the story in its entire context and knew the back story of what logan was going through how each issue left off and started right back in the same situation.. this isnt logan fighting one guy and a month later he is in the X mansion off to his next fight.. logan was finishing his fight and in the next issue you see him coming straight to his hiding whole planning his next move and tracking down leads and go off to it..
i mean his entire arc logan was on the go operating of very little sleep he clearly was not at optimal lvl.. but lets say he was do you really think logan will continue to have a nose bleed through an entire issue?do you think his HF fluctuates that much writer to writer?

Er no. I know exactly what you're refering to. Wolverine fought SS and we found out he was heavily sleep deprived and was starving. The problem again is you are making assumptions and exaggerating.

Just because he was starving when he fought SS doesn't mean he was starving and sleep deprived when he fought Cap. Furthermore the fight he had with Nuke wasn't shit at all.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow

answer me this how many wolverine series have you read?

No do't try it i've read lots of Wolverine comics. The problem isn't my lack of comic reading the problem is you're biased interpretations.

jinzin
Originally posted by Deadline
The only thing that can KO Wolverine is class 100 strength and if its anything less there is always reason. Maybe the reason why you guys are ALWAYS able to give a good reason for Wolverine being Koed

So you admit they're GOOD reasons? cool


Originally posted by Deadline
isn't because you guys are genuises

Don't think anyone ever said that. confused


Originally posted by Deadline
maybe just maybe you guys are good at creating reasons.

Or maybe we're just good at comprehending context. yes

Wild Shadow
i clearly did not say that did i.... i said context of the story needs to be viewed in its entirety not one single scan where he is ko'ed and claim all it took was a peak human in a one on one fight.. most ppl post the main boss bout where logan gets knocked out but dont post what it took logan to reach him.. being tested prodded beaten.. poison etc etc...

now i know their is one scan that exist where logan was clearly ko'ed without him havent bn put through the ringer.. i hated it and also laughed b/c it was done by one of my favorite characters Pip.. but.. i could also argue if i wanted to that logan wasnt ko'ed b/c irrc logan rubbing his head in the background of a splash page with all the heroes fighting so could claim it really just hurt him or knocked him down but not out in the one panel or like some he was ko'ed right there and then and simply recovered one or two panels later..

anyways this is like someone claiming Red skull can beat the snot out of panther vibe suit and all and not take context of the story... some argue that it was pis b/c of the damage caused by red skull to the suit others claim that he must not have bn wearing it b/c it wouldnt have torn others focus on BP not being a very good fighter and probably would drop him down a lvl in skills or physical stats while forgetting or not knowing that panther had a brain aneurysm during the story arc believing those few panels is a perfect representation of the character.. obviously ppl who read BP comics would frown on such a view of a laymen reader

KuRuPT Thanosi
People need to learn the concepts of Durability and Healing Factor as they aren't the same, as I've addressed in the Gamora vs Wolverine thread. WIth this simple basic understanding of comics is achieved we can move forward.

jinzin
Originally posted by Deadline
Yeah. Now what?

Oh he read them eventually... Shadow.. but his bias interpretations won't allow him to comprehend them very well.



Originally posted by Deadline
Er no. I know exactly what you're refering to. Wolverine fought SS and we found out he was heavily sleep deprived and was starving. The problem again is you are making assumptions and exaggerating.

Just because he was starving when he fought SS doesn't mean he was starving and sleep deprived when he fought Cap. Furthermore the fight he had with Nuke wasn't shit at all.
roll eyes (sarcastic)

Yes it's not an important part of the story even though it was stated repeatidly to be a part of the story before and AFTER the fight...



Originally posted by Deadline
No do't try it i've read lots of Wolverine comics. The problem isn't my lack of comic reading the problem is you're biased interpretations. No, the problem is your lack of reading comprehension, your Cap love, and general hate for all things Wolverine.

jinzin
Now Deadline please stop.


Can we get back to the point of this thread guys?

Deadline
Originally posted by jinzin



Or maybe we're just good at comprehending context. yes

Absolutely. Everytime Wolverine gets Koed and there are 100s of examples each time its because you're good at understanding context.

You should also know that in Marvel its actually part of their policy that whenever somebody writes a Wolverine story they always need to create a reason for him being KOed (eg some damage he took previoulsy).


Originally posted by jinzin
Now Deadline please stop.


Can we get back to the point of this thread guys?

*looks him up and down*

jinzin
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
People need to learn the concepts of Durability and Healing Factor as they aren't the same, as I've addressed in the Gamora vs Wolverine thread. WIth this simple basic understanding of comics is achieved we can move forward.
your ranting has no place here.

jinzin
Originally posted by Deadline
Absolutely. Everytime Wolverine gets Koed and there are 100s of examples each time its because you're good at understanding context.

You should also know that in Marvel its actually part of their policy that whenever somebody writes a Wolverine story they always need to create a reason for him being KOed (eg some damage he took previoulsy).


Hundreds of examples... THEN PLEASE PRODUCE THEM. That IS afterall the purpose of this thread.

No, you should know that in Marvel it is their policy to write stories. Sometimes those stories need CONTEXT to work or make sense.

Wild Shadow
Originally posted by jinzin
your ranting has no place here. i just ignore him his attitude and comments have no place here.,.. it has gotten worse lately the only one who i use to tolerate on this site behaving in a condescending manner was mindset and only b/c he could be funny half the time.. but, i just look at it eventually he will be banned this isnt other sites where seniority gives you leeway with ones behavior or the rules are less lax.. if he isnt contributing to the thread then he is simply trolling..

jinzin
Originally posted by dmills
So unless Wolverine is at optimal levels a ko wont count against him? He has to have gotten the proper rest, eaten his breakfast, taken his vitamins and drank his gatorade before a ko is deemed legit?

Dmills, it's not so much that we have to account for Wolverine having gotten his proper sleep and nourishment etc etc.... before a KO is deemed legit.

Alternatively; it's more about whether or not there is legitimate evidence that Wolverine was hurt/lacking before the KO to a point that brings the KO into question

As with Mr. X: Wolverine was shot, burned, blown up, stabbed, cut, choked, beat, and by a large sum of opponents all before he ever even got to X.... then with Blok after X, Wolverine had everything previously mentioned, on top of what X hit him with in that fight and the only thing he had inbetween was rest as far as we know.

The Sasquatch example Srank brought up is completely legit, but we have to take into account that this example is from classic Wolverine/before his HF was even written into the character at that...


If you look at Deadlines last posts you can see the issue. "Wolverine's been knocked out hundreds of times"...

Okay, that's not necessarily untrue but now we have to go about weeding out the legit knock outs from the crap (being where Wolverine's been torn up to a breaking point beforehand).....


It's pretty simple, many forum threads involving Wolverine have anti-Wolverine posters put up that so-and-so can knock Wolverine out using some nonsense tactic, to which Wolverine supporters have to remind them that Wolverine can tank Hulk punches, to which the Anti-Wolvesters insist that you don't have to be as strong as Hulk or anywhere near that strong, to knock Wolverine out, and weaker people have done it.....

Oh, really? Okay.... how about we go on proving this then and the likelyhood....

psycho gundam
^ lets cut to the chase: lets use batman since we all know this is where this is heading. can he and guys in his class knock him out legitimately? and have they in the past?

leonidas
dracula one-shotted him didn't he? same issue he caught colossus's fist.

The Real Wolvie
Originally posted by psycho gundam
^ lets cut to the chase: lets use batman since we all know this is where this is heading. can he and guys in his class knock him out legitimately? and have they in the past?


Why use batman? Have the two even faught in canon???


The bottom line is out of all the times Wolverine HAS been knocked out, you might find FIVE scans that show that show that Wolverine gets knocked out by like two or three punches without taking prior subsequent damage. You might find five in all of marvel comics?? Now how many do we have where the opposite has proven true? Hundreds? wink

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by psycho gundam
^ lets cut to the chase: lets use batman since we all know this is where this is heading. can he and guys in his class knock him out legitimately? and have they in the past?

Batman - or anyone in his strength class - would be hard pressed to knock out Wolverine, even without the aid of his healing factor thanks to his Adamantium skull, which would be a massive advantage against any peak human opponent. With his healing factor it would be next to impossible for someone like Batman to inflicted the type of damage need to overwork Wolverine's healing factor to the point that Logan could be taken down, even for a 10 second TKO. It would take Batman days to equal the amount of damage a single blow from the Hulk can deliver. No street level MA could realistically take even 1/10 from Wolverine in a forum match.

jalek moye
Originally posted by jinzin



It's pretty simple, many forum threads involving Wolverine have anti-Wolverine posters put up that so-and-so can knock Wolverine out using some nonsense tactic, to which Wolverine supporters have to remind them that Wolverine can tank Hulk punches, to which the Anti-Wolvesters insist that you don't have to be as strong as Hulk or anywhere near that strong, to knock Wolverine out, and weaker people have done it.....

Oh, really? Okay.... how about we go on proving this then and the likelyhood....

people that are weaker then hulk can and have knocked him out tho. I don't think many people are claiming that people less then hulk can cassually one shot him but in a fight they can and have knocke dhim out before.

jinzin
Originally posted by jalek moye
people that are weaker then hulk can and have knocked him out tho. I don't think many people are claiming that people less then hulk can cassually one shot him but in a fight they can and have knocke dhim out before. It that's your stance then please provide some evidence. I'm not saying you're wrong I'm just saying we need to figure out what it takes and what's the likelyhood so we don't have the same rediculous arguments like this with the same people over and over in every thread.

jalek moye
well what exactly counts as a legit knock out to you then? because it its just examples of times hes been knocked out at the end of a fight with someone or something like that then yea i can get those. if ur talking about him getting like one shotted, I said in my post that can't really happen.

jinzin
Originally posted by jalek moye
well what exactly counts as a legit knock out to you then? because it its just examples of times hes been knocked out at the end of a fight with someone or something like that then yea i can get those. if ur talking about him getting like one shotted, I said in my post that can't really happen.
I'd like to see more one shots. So we can get some decent understanding of all these supposed examples where he's been "knocked out by less hundreds of times".

Failing that/exhausting that: We'll move down a notch to:
Getting put down in one fight by one consecutive opponent who doesn't have to rely on plot device/dues ex machina to get the win.


THEN we can estimate the likelyhood of those showings and furthermore what it typically takes to down in even in the realm of that likelyhood.

trying to be as objective as possible.

jalek moye
k. i'll look through all my wolverine and xmen comics and see what i can post after work tommorow.

jinzin
cool. thanks for the interest

Wild Shadow
didnt the guardian of the M'krann crystal ko logan? i cant recall..

also batman is not ko'ing logn period w/o massive wpns to weaken him 1st..

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
didnt the guardian of the M'krann crystal ko logan? i cant recall..

also batman is not ko'ing logn period w/o massive wpns to weaken him 1st..

Jahf? Yes, he did. But that was before he got a healing factor, therefore it's not usable... just like my Sasquatch example.

Wild Shadow
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Jahf? Yes, he did. But that was before he got a healing factor, therefore it's not usable... just like my Sasquatch example. nonsense... whether he had one at the time or not is pointless he has one now and can be added retrospectively ... no expression


i miss when logan was just a tough umbre with what appeared to be highly undefined superhuman strength, durability and i was happy when they added the HF... now all we have is a somewhat nerfed character,, shadow of his formal self

OneDumbG0
^ Hearty lulz to the whole Wolverine had no clearly defined healing factor up until a certain publishing date -- so in the fictional comics timeline, he never had one -- (except when in post-HF-circa published flashbacks, he does have one).

Yeah...

... or no. no expression

Wild Shadow
its how retcons tend to work.. its like claiming that DD could fight off and beat Sabretooth b/c he did in an old 80's scan when SB was a joke and hadnt yet bn given any defined powers other then being an assassin and looking like an animall with claws

jinzin
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
its how retcons tend to work.. its like claiming that DD could fight off and beat Sabretooth b/c he did in an old 80's scan when SB was a joke and hadnt yet bn given any defined powers other then being an assassin and looking like an animall with claws

lol, Sabes being beat around my Matt happened in the same month as him punching out Rogue. He was on the rim of being a superhuman when he fought Matt, just barely.

Anyhow, I think we'll add it in.

We're going to have to account for seperate portions though i.e. classic/current Loges.

But.. did Jahf knock him out? I know Wolverine got punch into orbit but was it established that he was unconcious? I honestly don't remember.

Wild Shadow
neither do i.. i know they teleported him into the ship but dont recall if he was ko'ed..

i remember some kids at CV tell me i was stupid and wrong and how DD could beat sabretooth and used the old 80's scan..

then they started bashing.. i didnt know if i should luagh or cry at the obsurdity

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by jinzin
But.. did Jahf knock him out? I know Wolverine got punch into orbit but was it established that he was unconcious? I honestly don't remember.

Yes, he did.

UXM #108

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/9506/theuncannyxmen10818.th.jpg

Logan was getting up on the next page (last panel of the comic).

Wild Shadow
so far we got:

Pip
Jahf
Sasquatch

w/ the single hit Ko..

Consecutive hits:

The Thing
Juggernaut

StiltmanFTW
And Sasquatch.

Wild Shadow
i edited... was it a single or consecutive?

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