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Scenario: On a deserted alternate Earth the Scarlet Speedster and Apocalypse face off. They begin .5 Miles apart within sight of each other. No CIS or PIS, no BFR, no destroying the battlefield. All abilities are allowed.

Setting: Alternate Earth, deserted and unpopulated. They begin their fight in Post-Apocalyptic Washington, D.C.

Characters:

Apocalypse (Most current 616 version)

vs.

Flash (Most current Wally West)

Flash Fact: Apoc gets his shit kicked in.

apocolypse is a sub sky father level guy, he would rape flash

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
apocolypse is a sub sky father level guy, he would rape flash

Complete and utter bullshit on both counts.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
apocolypse sky father

There are very few people who can beat Flash with CIS/PIS taken off.

Apoc is not one of them.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
There are very few people who can beat Flash with CIS/PIS taken off.

Apoc is not one of them.


superman took a punch from flash, right?

PC supes was faster

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
apocolypse is a sub sky father level guy, he would rape flash
He'd lose a large majority to Thor and Thor isn't close to Skyfather.

Silver Surfer has pretty much all Apoc's powers, some of them at higher levels. Surfer also isn't close to Skyfather.

Originally posted by amnesia
superman took a punch from flash, right?

PC supes was faster
I know you are joking around but just so nobody gets the wrong idea current Flash > PC Flash.

And again, if Apoc is skyfather anything, people like Thor and Surfer are abstracts.

Apocalypse easily.

Stronger, smarter, more durable, and more versatile.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Apocalypse easily.

Stronger, smarter, more durable, and more versatile.

You may actually be right this time...however none of this matters with Wally's unique abilities.

Originally posted by Lunacyde
You may actually be right this time...however none of this matters with Wally's unique abilities.

Telepathy and Telekinesis FTW?

Originally posted by Lunacyde
You may actually be right this time...however none of this matters with Wally's unique abilities.

Agree 100%.

I dislike Wally though.

So...can Wally resist telepathy or not?

Originally posted by TheTyrant
So...can Wally resist telepathy or not?

1. He doesn't have telepathy, it's celestial tech bullcrap that has been misrepresented.
2. Wally rams Apoc into mushy paste before he can even try to think about playing the mind juju card.

Edit: And if Galactusishere comes in with the spitting adamantium bullets defense I swear to god I'm going to poop in frustration.

Flash stomp..Apoc is outclass here..

Originally posted by Konton
1. He doesn't have telepathy, it's celestial tech bullcrap that has been misrepresented.
2. Wally rams Apoc into mushy paste before he can even try to think about playing the mind juju card.

Nope sorry. He has communicated with guys like Exodus or Archangel over long distances, has mind blasted Invisible Woman, Xavier, and Exodus, etc.

Apocalypse is a faster thinker and can teleport.

Apocalypse is a faster thinker than Wally West?

He's literally teleported in combat like twice.

Originally posted by Konton
Apocalypse is a faster thinker than Wally West?

He's literally teleported in combat like twice.

Stryfe, High Evolutionary, Loki. Three times atleast.

Originally posted by Konton
1. He doesn't have telepathy, it's celestial tech bullcrap that has been misrepresented.
2. Wally rams Apoc into mushy paste before he can even try to think about playing the mind juju card.

Edit: And if Galactusishere comes in with the spitting adamantium bullets defense I swear to god I'm going to poop in frustration.

Agreed. Good luck fighting someone FTL with a thought based attack lol.

flash

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Stryfe, High Evolutionary, Loki. Three times atleast.
Is that all? Because Superman has used T-Vo about that many times as well. vin

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Is that all? Because Superman has used T-Vo about that many times as well. vin LOL

Forgot the about the Ikaris fight and the other time, when he teleported away from Onslaught.

Teleportation is not faster than Flash, Flash's reflexes are FAR beyond Apocalypses, teleporting doens't change that.

If you so strongly believe that Flash would stomp, then why would you make this thread at all?

Originally posted by TheTyrant
If you so strongly believe that Flash would stomp, then why would you make this thread at all?
You make Apoc threads all the time (often falsely) believing them to be pro-Apoc stomps.

.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
You make Apoc threads all the time (often falsely) believing them to be pro-Apoc stomps.

When did I do so?

Originally posted by TheTyrant
When did I do so?
Pretty much every time you make an Apoc thread since you always claim Apoc stomps.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Pretty much every time you make an Apoc thread since you always claim Apoc stomps.

Name two?

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Name two?
Here are two you made out of butthurt from losing in the WW vs Apoc debate:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=529538
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=529536
Here's another thread you believed to be pro-Apoc spite:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=525374

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Here are two you made out of butthurt from losing in the WW vs Apoc debate:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=529538
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=529536
Here's another thread you believed to be pro-Apoc spite:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=525374 pwned

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Here are two you made out of butthurt from losing in the WW vs Apoc debate:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=529538
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=529536
Here's another thread you believed to be pro-Apoc spite:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=525374

Huh? I actually thought that they were nice fights since Wonder Woman is in Apocalypse' league and them girls can actually give her tough fights. Am I right? Should have also made a Cheetah vs Apoc thread as well.


Apocalypse won in the 'classic Apocalypse vs Wonder Woman' thread:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=12457875

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Huh? I actually thought that they were nice fights since Wonder Woman is in Apocalypse' league and them girls can actually give her tough fights. Am I right? Should have also made a Cheetah vs Apoc thread as well.


Apocalypse won in the 'classic Apocalypse vs Wonder Woman' thread:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=12457875
No Apoc didn't win. Apoc supporters had shit to back up their views.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
No Apoc didn't win. Apoc supporters had shit to back up their views.
And what the hell did the WW supporters have to back up their claims? Nothing.

Apoc clearly won. Read up:

galactusischere: So Apoc pretty much wins this?
Blanket: Everybody else agrees.
Magneto1982: En Sabah Nur


Read the rest of the thread after Kris Blaze' post. Almost everybody agrees on Apoc winning.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
And what the hell did the WW supporters have to back up their claims? Nothing.

Apoc clearly won. Read up:

galactusischere: So Apoc pretty much wins this?
Blanket: Everybody else agrees.
Magneto1982: En Sabah Nur


Read the rest of the thread after Kris Blaze' post. Almost everybody agrees on Apoc winning.

At first I thought that character battles were decided by consistent showings and clear argumentations, but no I was wrong. It's decided by majority opinion and one-sentence arguments.

Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
At first I thought that character battles were decided by consistent showings and clear argumentations, but no I was wrong. It's decided by majority opinion and one-sentence arguments.

Those were not the arguements. That's how the thread pretty much ended.

Infinite mass table FTW.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
And what the hell did the WW supporters have to back up their claims? Nothing.

Apoc clearly won. Read up:

galactusischere: So Apoc pretty much wins this?
Blanket: Everybody else agrees.
Magneto1982: En Sabah Nur


Read the rest of the thread after Kris Blaze' post. Almost everybody agrees on Apoc winning.
Blanket?

You know Blanket was just trolling you guys right?

Also all Kris proved was that Apoc can beat an X-Men team, not Wonder Woman.

Apoc VS WW

Non CIS PIS Poccy wins
Everyday characters WW wins.

Not really. Wonder Woman has trouble with characters like Deathstroke or Poison Ivy or Cheetah On average. Even Jobberclypse hasn't sunk that low.

True.

But those villains would have an easier time with Diana than a Shapeshifter on Poccy's level.

Those guys would get stomped by Apocalypse. Diana has trouble with them nearly everytime. And she isn't a jobber.

Hence why Apocalypse stomps WW, CIS/PIS on or off.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Not really. Wonder Woman has trouble with characters like Deathstroke or Poison Ivy or Cheetah On average. Even Jobberclypse hasn't sunk that low.

When does Diana have trouble with Slade or Ivy on average?

And you realize that Cheetah is incredibly fast, compared to be almost Flash like, and possesses superhuman strength and durability which enable her to combat Diana without being shitstomped?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
When does Diana have trouble with Slade or Ivy on average?

And you realize that Cheetah is incredibly fast, compared to be almost Flash like, and possesses superhuman strength and durability which enable her to combat Diana without being shitstomped?

I'm on iPhone right now, but I can recall Diana losing atleast one time to Slade and 2 other times barely edging him out. Ivy controlled her once IIRC.

Cheetah isn't all that powerful compared to Apocalypse. She only has super strenght, speed, stamina, and reflexes.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
When does Diana have trouble with Slade or Ivy on average?

And you realize that Cheetah is incredibly fast, compared to be almost Flash like, and possesses superhuman strength and durability which enable her to combat Diana without being shitstomped?

Why do you continue this pointless struggle?

Originally posted by TheTyrant
If you so strongly believe that Flash would stomp, then why would you make this thread at all?

Because firstly I never said it was a stomp, I merely said I believe Flash should win.

Secondly even if I believe that Flash should win, I know there are plenty who thought Apoc would win, so I figured as a thread it would sparks some interesting debate. Believing someone wins and being able to prove or advocate it in a thread are two different things.

Honestly my opinion was open-ended at the start. I am just throwing out a defense for your points so far because I don't consider anything said so far to be any indication Flash should lose based on my knowledge of said characters.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Not really. Wonder Woman has trouble with characters like Deathstroke or Poison Ivy or Cheetah On average.
Once again you tip your "I don't know WTF I'm talking about" hat.

She doesn't have trouble with them on average. In fact it could scarcely be said she's ever had trouble with either of them.

Don't make me stoop to the "Apoc gets KOed by a table FTL" level. dur

And Wonder Woman having trouble with Slade is poor writing.

I just don't see how speedsters like WW, Supes and Flash can beat Poccy when he can grow to the size of a building and make him self as hard as Adamantium. Plus TK and kinetic explosions that can be manipulated and used anywhere at will. Plus Teleportation.

But Flash can steal speed!

Still he can't punch such a huge durable entity.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Flash Fact: Apoc gets his shit kicked in.

Wally actually vibrated through Supermans hand once, in his post crisis race with big blue. He was much, much, much slower at the time.

Remember what Barry did to Amazo in The Nail? I'm thinking Wally can do the same thing to 'Pocky here...

Hell, he could probably do it to Superman or Despero and call it a night..

Originally posted by the ninjak
I just don't see how speedsters like WW, Supes and Flash can beat Poccy when he can grow to the size of a building and make him self as hard as Adamantium. Plus TK and kinetic explosions that can be manipulated and used anywhere at will. Plus Teleportation.

But Flash can steal speed!

Still he can't punch such a huge durable entity.

Why can't he? Ever heard of the infinite mass punch? Flash can punch as hard as Superman because of his momentum and his Speed Force aura makes it so it doesn't hurt him. Besides the point of Apocalypse having his speed stolen means he can't move, meaning he can't grow and he can't harden himself.

Originally posted by Lunacyde
he can't harden himself.

Apoc's greatest enemy: Male impotence.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
apocolypse is a sub sky father level guy, he would rape flash

Bullshit!

Sooner or later Apoc will be beating Galactus!

Flash stomps this fight.

I'm surprised that no one took into consideration that Flash can phase through solid object using his speed abilities. If he pulls this move on Apocalypse (and scramble his molecular structure in the process); the Big A Belt is bye-bye.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Apocalypse is a faster thinker This pretty much sums up his knowledge of Flashes

Originally posted by Magneto1982
I'm surprised that no one took into consideration that Flash can phase through solid object using his speed abilities. If he pulls this move on Apocalypse (and scramble his molecular structure in the process); the Big A Belt is bye-bye.

To be fair, I said Wally would turn him into paste.

Originally posted by Magneto1982
I'm surprised that no one took into consideration that Flash can phase through solid object using his speed abilities. If he pulls this move on Apocalypse (and scramble his molecular structure in the process); the Big A Belt is bye-bye.

there are a couple indefensible ways flash can win. phasing and scrambling is one, and of course the simple speed steal. neither one can be countered or withstood by apocalypse. he could also just muddle with apoc's head by ADDING speed, ala walter.

a non-pis flash is about the toughest forum character to beat in these level matches.

Apocalypse can phase too.

Can this thread please die already?

Concession accepted.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Apocalypse can phase too.
To what extent?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
To what extent?

He can phase through walls and such.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
He can phase through walls and such.
And has he ever used it in combat with someone with Flash level speed?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
And has he ever used it in combat with someone with Flash level speed?

No.

doesn't matter because if his mind is scrambled or his speed is stolen, he won't be able to do anything. it's why debating against flash is so difficult in a forum setting.

Flash wins.

Originally posted by galactusischere
Flash wins.

jawdrop

Originally posted by galactusischere
Flash wins.

I hope that's sarcasm.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
I hope that's sarcasm.
No, just an admittance from a real Apoc fan that Flash takes this.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
I hope that's sarcasm.

Nope.

Flash is too fast for Apocalypse. This fight would end in 20 seconds.

Originally posted by galactusischere
Nope.

Flash is too fast for Apocalypse. This fight would end in 20 seconds.
So what did Flash spend the first 19 seconds doing? Knitting?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
So what did Flash spend the first 19 seconds doing? Knitting? Originally posted by galactusischere
Nope.

Flash is too fast for Apocalypse. This fight would end in 20 seconds.

You two can't be serious. Apocalypse can TELEPORT. Flash isn't winning this, and even if he is, it won't be in 20 seconds.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
You two can't be serious. Apocalypse can TELEPORT. Flash isn't winning this, and even if he is, it won't be in 20 seconds.
Flash has actually moved faster than a teleporter. Before Apoc's mind can process the command to teleport Flash will be on him.

flash thinks faster than even he moves, he has to.

I don't understand the teleporting > superspeed argument.

Apocalypse isn't going to even be capable of processing a necessary teleport when he needs to do so because he's incalculably slower in cognitive ability. Flash will literally have scrambled Apocalypse into mush before he can recognize that Wally has MOVED.

And even if I throw in a handicap and say, I don't know, let Apocalypse teleport the very INSTANT of round start, there isn't a place anywhere in Wally's radius that he could appear and strike before Wally could react and counter. There isn't a place he could flee to in the immediate vicinity that Wally couldn't bumrush into blue pastry before Apocalypse could even register his own surroundings upon arrival.

Originally posted by Konton
I don't understand the teleporting > superspeed argument.

Apocalypse isn't going to even be capable of processing a necessary teleport when he needs to do so because he's incalculably slower in cognitive ability. Flash will literally have scrambled Apocalypse into mush before he can recognize that Wally has MOVED.

And even if I throw in a handicap and say, I don't know, let Apocalypse teleport the very INSTANT of round start, there isn't a place anywhere in Wally's radius that he could appear and strike before Wally could react and counter. There isn't a place he could flee to in the immediate vicinity that Wally couldn't bumrush into blue pastry before Apocalypse could even register his own surroundings upon arrival.

Maybe into orbit?

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Maybe into orbit?
So Apoc self BFRs? Seriously? That's what your argument is reduced to?
crylaugh

Originally posted by Omega Vision
So Apoc self BFRs? Seriously? That's what your argument is reduced to?
crylaugh

BFR isn't off. Apoc goes into orbit and starts bombing Flash from there.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
So Apoc self BFRs? Seriously? That's what your argument is reduced to?
crylaugh

flash.
thinks.
faster.

he steals his speed and it's over before he ever has a chance to TRY and port away.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
BFR isn't off. Apoc goes into orbit and starts bombing Flash from there.
You're right. So Apoc BFRing himself For the Lose isn't off the Table.
biscuits

Originally posted by leonidas
flash.
thinks.
faster.

he steals his speed and it's over before he ever has a chance to TRY and port away.

He doesn't really need to steal 'Pocky's speed, since he's so much faster he'll already be a statue.

Unless you mean permanently stealing his speed for the win, like he did to Inertia.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
And has he ever used it in combat with someone with Flash level speed?

He vibrated his hand out of Supermans grip in their post crisis race, when they were both nearly the same speed level, for what that's worth.

It proves durability is no obstacle to vibrating, too.

Originally posted by cdtm
He vibrated his hand out of Supermans grip in their post crisis race, when they were both nearly the same speed level, for what that's worth.

It proves durability is no obstacle to vibrating, too.
I was talking about Apoc, not Flash.

Originally posted by cdtm
He doesn't really need to steal 'Pocky's speed, since he's so much faster he'll already be a statue.

Unless you mean permanently stealing his speed for the win, like he did to Inertia.

of course he doesn't, but like i said, it is merely one option.