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Gotta at least KO the other guy.

discuss!

Unless there is no CIS Black adam.

Black Adam

BA.

BA could take a million screams from BB. BA is god and deserves his own series.

Originally posted by amnesia
BA could take a million screams from BB. BA is god and deserves his own series. Not sure about that.His scream is much mroe powerfull then nukes.Could he take like 2 million nukes?

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Not sure about that.His scream is much mroe powerfull then nukes.Could he take like 2 million nukes?


.....Yeeees.... BA is only surpassed by doom.

the Badass one. (Black Adam!!!)

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
the Badass one. (Black Adam!!!)

BB is pretty badass to. The silent monarch versus the batshit crazy murdering monarch.

BA has this one.

ba

Black Bolt

Ba 9/10

Black Adam

Originally posted by tkitna
Black Bolt

Based on what???? Nah, J/K!!

How is a character with Matter Manipulation, Mind Control, A scream that might be the deadliest weapon in the know Marvel Universe, physical attributes and speed that can match the other character, and the ability to wrap all his powers into a final Master Blow be getting no love here?

BB wins

Originally posted by tkitna
How is a character with Matter Manipulation, Mind Control, A scream that might be the deadliest weapon in the know Marvel Universe, physical attributes and speed that can match the other character, and the ability to wrap all his powers into a final Master Blow be getting no love here?

BB wins
Probably a lack of battle victories against characters in BA's class.

CIS or no CIS, it doesn't matter. Adam wins. He won't need to tank the scream, because he's fast enough to KO BB before he can attack.

Just look at what he did to Power Girl.

Originally posted by tkitna
How is a character with Matter Manipulation, Mind Control, A scream that might be the deadliest weapon in the know Marvel Universe, physical attributes and speed that can match the other character, and the ability to wrap all his powers into a final Master Blow be getting no love here?

BB wins

BB is going to get a hole through his stomach FTL

Originally posted by cdtm
CIS or no CIS, it doesn't matter. Adam wins. He won't need to tank the scream, because he's fast enough to KO BB before he can attack.

Just look at what he did to Power Girl.

So you seriously think BA is going to rush right in there and speedblitz Blackagar for the KO before he can react?

Good lord

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Probably a lack of battle victories against characters in BA's class.

Probably right, but he more than held his own against Gladiator, Hulk, Vulcan, and others.

I dont think its as decisive as everybodys making it out to be.

Originally posted by tkitna
Probably right, but he more than held his own against Gladiator, Hulk, Vulcan, and others.

I dont think its as decisive as everybodys making it out to be.
Well Black Adam has more than held his own against Martian Manhunter, Superman, Captain Marvel, and took on a shit load of heroes in WW3.

This is the problem when you take a purely feats based approach. Looking strictly at their powerset's it's clear BB should win more often then not. But instead we get "ZOMG, ADAM FOUGHT THE JLA!"

Originally posted by tkitna
How is a character with Matter Manipulation, Mind Control, A scream that might be the deadliest weapon in the know Marvel Universe, physical attributes and speed that can match the other character, and the ability to wrap all his powers into a final Master Blow be getting no love here?

BB wins

He has no mind control, you're referring to Maximus. The phrase "matter manipulation" is misleading when you don't go into specifics, especially when it really just creates shockwaves instead of turning people's heads into Jello. He doesn't do the transmutation stuff often.

His physical attributes are nowhere near BA's, and speed...nowhere near BA's.

Originally posted by dmills
Looking strictly at their powerset's it's clear BB should win more often then not.

Power of seven gods > Partial electron manipulation

BB loses.

From the majority of the posts, I see a few more peeps siding with BA on this one. He has the str, durability, and speed to really get on top of Black Bolt from the get go. But remember, i said each has to at least KO the other from my original post. Knowing this, who's to say BB will not go all out from the get go start off with a planet-wide quasi-sonic attack that obliterates everything? He has an offensive attack that is easily one of the most feared in Marvel Universe. Can BA withstand such an assault. Also a no nonsense BB will amp his already high physical stats from the start as well. This guy hangs with the likes of Hulk, Gladiator, etc. This shouldn't be as clear cut as some people think.

Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
He has no mind control, you're referring to Maximus.

What would you consider that?



He formed a robe, created a support, and it even states that he could manipulate every electron in a persons body to turn them into stone in this one scan.

http://img45.exs.cx/img45/9417/matt4cy.jpg

Seems a bit more to me then merely creating shockwaves.



So Black Adam is that far above Hulk, Gladiator, and Vulcan? Hmph, when did that happen? Maybe when he beat on a bunch of b-listers and a wanking Lantern or two in WW3. Hard to tell.

Originally posted by tkitna
What would you consider that?

Consider what? His non-existent mind control, which actually belongs to Maximus?

Originally posted by tkitna He formed a robe, created a support, and it even states that he could manipulate every electron in a persons body to turn them into stone in this one scan.

http://img45.exs.cx/img45/9417/matt4cy.jpg

Seems a bit more to me then merely creating shockwaves.

How often has he used that in battle?

Originally posted by tkitna So Black Adam is that far above Hulk, Gladiator, and Vulcan? Hmph, when did that happen? Maybe when he beat on a bunch of b-listers and a wanking Lantern or two in WW3. Hard to tell.

BB has to amp himself up to even approach their levels. Yes, he's above the Vulcan who got his butt handed to him by his own brother and who isn't that impressive without his energy manipulation powers. He's stronger than Gladiator to a slight degree and stronger than base Hulk.

I didn't know the entire JSA and then some were B-listers. I wasn't referring to the WW3 arc but obviously you have some hate you need to let out.

Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
Consider what? His non-existent mind control, which actually belongs to Maximus?

So he did nothing in this scan?

http://img227.exs.cx/img227/623/ment9bn.jpg



Lol. So your going to go into weak argument form by saying that he doesnt use his powers very often so they shouldnt count in this battle. The fact remains that he has these powers and they are avaliable to him as he sees fit.



So Gladiator is weaker than a base Hulk? Lol. Gladiator is as least as strong as Adam and probably more so with speed to match. Whatever. Its apples and oranges except they are all in the same class.



I just want to know why everybody thinks he's so formidable. WW3 is the only thing I can think of. Yeah he's a badass, but people are talking in this thread like its almost spite in his favor. I just cant see it. I dont even think he wins period.

@Johhny
I consider Nova and BB to be on the same tier powerwise. After some thought you seemed willing to give Nova a slight edge vs BA in the Nova vs BA thread, why not BB? Was it the Stargate thing?

Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
Consider what? His non-existent mind control, which actually belongs to Maximus?



How often has he used that in battle?



BB has to amp himself up to even approach their levels. Yes, he's above the Vulcan who got his butt handed to him by his own brother and who isn't that impressive without his energy manipulation powers. He's stronger than Gladiator to a slight degree and stronger than base Hulk.

I didn't know the entire JSA and then some were B-listers. I wasn't referring to the WW3 arc but obviously you have some hate you need to let out.


he has used his electron based powers to different degrees of mind raping more than once.

http://img11.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=e1812_mindblast.jpg#

to add to tkitna's post.

Originally posted by dmills
@Johhny
I consider Nova and BB to be on the same tier powerwise. After some thought you seemed willing to give Nova a slight edge vs BA in the Nova vs BA thread, why not BB? Was it the Stargate thing?


aww come on Dmills. this is a BA Vs. BB debate!
Ok ok we get it... Nova Prime is badassss. you happy now??

Originally posted by quanchi112
BB loses.
DId quanchi just say a DC character wins!?
AHH. Nope just that a marvel character loses.

Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
He has no mind control, you're referring to Maximus. The phrase "matter manipulation" is misleading when you don't go into specifics, especially when it really just creates shockwaves instead of turning people's heads into Jello. He doesn't do the transmutation stuff often.

His physical attributes are nowhere near BA's, and speed...nowhere near BA's.



Power of seven gods > Partial electron manipulation

More or less.

I actually think BB is powerful enough to put Adam down though. I just can't see BB being capable of reacting fast enough to get the first, second, third, or tenth shot in.

Like it or not, speed kills, and Adam has the speed here, along with the power to do serious damage.

Originally posted by dmills
This is the problem when you take a purely feats based approach. Looking strictly at their powerset's it's clear BB should win more often then not. But instead we get "ZOMG, ADAM FOUGHT THE JLA!"

He was technically comparing fights, I think, instead of feats. Feats are more like "moved mountains/survived nukes".

But yeah, BB has a pretty impressive resume. His record against Hulk is better than Thor's, I think.

Basically, BB's kind of like less versatile Surfer or Thor. His electron manipulation can give him the edge against a lot of opponents, except one's like Thor who's hammer can absorb or redirect their energies..

Glads really could've owned him, with his speed edge mixed with his physical stats though, and I'm pulling for Adam based on the same reason.

Originally posted by cdtm
More or less.

I actually think BB is powerful enough to put Adam down though. I just can't see BB being capable of reacting fast enough to get the first, second, third, or tenth shot in.

Like it or not, speed kills, and Adam has the speed here, along with the power to do serious damage.



definitely agree with BA having the speed advantage. But BB is not a slug. He has shown to react and move at great speeds. BB also has the versatility advantage.

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/Inhumans_TGR_001_55.jpg

http://img353.imageshack.us/my.php?image=blackboltfeat62ez.gif

@Celey,
I WILL NOT REST UNTIL EVERYBODY KNOWS! j/k

He and I were having a conversation on another thread a while back. I was just curious as to why he'd pick BA in this. That's all.

I'm a guy that favors versatility. The fact that BB can do so many different things with energy, including amping his stats, should give him an edge here. It's not always about strength and speed.

Originally posted by dmills
I'm a guy that favors versatility. The fact that BB can do so many different things with energy, including amping his stats, should give him an edge here. It's not always about strength and speed.

Not always. That's why I'd pick Thanos over PC Superman, because I think he has the sheer durability to take an opening speed blitz and use his versatility. I'd HATE having to pick that, and I know there's others who'd disagree, but that's just how I see it.

And while BB's tough, he's up against someone who's steamrolled characters at least as tough while being saddled with PIS against using his full potential, like one shotting Power Girl.

Now imagine all that raw power at near light speed. Taking not just one knock of the type that put PG into unconsciousness, but half a dozen, or a full dozen. More? All before he gets a chance to fire off an electron beam or employ a scream.

Originally posted by dmills
@Celey,
I WILL NOT REST UNTIL EVERYBODY KNOWS! j/k

He and I were having a conversation on another thread a while back. I was just curious as to why he'd pick BA in this. That's all.



hehehe...

@cdtm,

You've peaked my curiosity. I need to inquire about the durability of BB. I was alway under the impression that it's top of the food chain.

Then there's the difference in strength relative to DC/Marvel characters. DC routinely has their people doing crazy shyte like pulling planets with ropes. Marvel doesn't usually do that.

Originally posted by dmills
@cdtm,

You've peaked my curiosity. I need to inquire about the durability of BB. I was alway under the impression that it's top of the food chain.

His durability is high, yes. I'd say it's at least comparable with Thor's.

But Black Bolt casually took out Power Girl. And it wasn't even in World War III, but Black Reign, and he did similar in a later JSA story. Even if I put Black Bolts durability ahead of PG, we're still talking about Adam using a single attack to take her out.

So when you factor in Adam turning up the speed, and hitting BB with everything he has to end it as soon as he could, BB would need to be more then a step ahead of PG durability wise to weather that, IMO.

Originally posted by cdtm
His durability is high, yes. I'd say it's at least comparable with Thor's.

But Black Bolt casually took out Power Girl. And it wasn't even in World War III, but Black Reign, and he did similar in a later JSA story. Even if I put Black Bolts durability ahead of PG, we're still talking about Adam using a single attack to take her out.

So when you factor in Adam turning up the speed, and hitting BB with everything he has to end it as soon as he could, BB would need to be more then a step ahead of PG durability wise to weather that, IMO.

troo, but in comics there are good days and bad days for each character. like the one every poster here uses over and over as a feat for Orion Vs. threads. the one in which he one shots superman with astro force. superman has tanked waaay more than that in other showings.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
troo, but in comics there are good days and bad days for each character. like the one every poster here uses over and over as a feat for Orion Vs. threads. the one in which he one shots superman with astro force. superman has tanked waaay more than that in other showings.

Personally, I was more impressed by Supes getting taken out as collateral damage along with Mantis and Kalibak in Death of the New Gods.

The Astro Force is also pretty variable. I know in the Kirby days, the first or second issue had Orion claim the Astro Force could possibly destroy him, so maybe that's why it's not always doing high end stuff, like stopping universe destroying doomsday devices or shaking the foundations of the Earth in passing...

Or even just stunning high end bricks with a small burst, as he did in Kirby's days.

Ok fair enough. But I don't recall cis being off, so is the speed blitz even apart of BA's regular tactics? You know the 3x on panel rule stands. If so then BA can take this.

Originally posted by dmills
Ok fair enough. But I don't recall cis being off, so is the speed blitz even apart of BA's regular tactics? You know the 3x on panel rule stands, so if you have at least 3 examples of this, BA wins.

Post op didn't say, so I guess it's on.

I can give three examples of Adam using his speed (Like knocking Jay Garrick out of a speed blitz, and into unconsciousness), but not really a speed blitz.

Ok, BB has a better chance than.

I still think he has the majority edge though, considering how he decisively defeats Power Girl in non WW3 examples, took out Dr. Fate, broke construct restraints from Alan Scott. Beat the hell out of Captain Marvel too, from their first Post Crisis mini down to World War 3. If you look at his history, he's ALWAYS been hard hitting, and not only in World War 3.

Originally posted by dmills
This is the problem when you take a purely feats based approach. Looking strictly at their powerset's it's clear BB should win more often then not. But instead we get "ZOMG, ADAM FOUGHT THE JLA!"
Feats are imperative when dealing with characters between Streetlevel and Skyfather. Beyond that I generally give more credence to implied power/status.

Originally posted by tkitna
So he did nothing in this scan?

http://img227.exs.cx/img227/623/ment9bn.jpg

Um, not mind control. He made him go to sleep. Maximus didn't do a chicken dance.


Originally posted by tkitna Lol. So your going to go into weak argument form by saying that he doesnt use his powers very often so they shouldnt count in this battle. The fact remains that he has these powers and they are avaliable to him as he sees fit.

Actually a weak argument is saying that since a character does something once out of combat, he can and shall do it in combat.

Along the lines of your argument, I could say that every Superman forum battle ends with him pulling a Manchester Black and lobotomizing his opponent with heat vision.

Originally posted by tkitna So Gladiator is weaker than a base Hulk? Lol. Gladiator is as least as strong as Adam and probably more so with speed to match. Whatever. Its apples and oranges except they are all in the same class.

Gladiator > base Hulk

Gladiator is weaker than BA, but not to the extent that he would get stomped on in a straight-up fight. Base Hulk without amping his strength would get stomped.

Originally posted by tkitna I just want to know why everybody thinks he's so formidable. WW3 is the only thing I can think of. Yeah he's a badass, but people are talking in this thread like its almost spite in his favor. I just cant see it. I dont even think he wins period.

That's your opinion. Other people disagree and will actually formulate an argument for their position.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
he has used his electron based powers to different degrees of mind raping more than once.

http://img11.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=e1812_mindblast.jpg#

to add to tkitna's post.

Not mind control. His "mind blasts" consist of physically affecting the brain with electrons. Nowhere is he erasing memories, forcing people to do what he wants, and anything else associated with true mind control.

It's like claiming Vulcan is a telepath because he can manipulate psionic energy.



Originally posted by dmills
@Johhny
I consider Nova and BB to be on the same tier powerwise. After some thought you seemed willing to give Nova a slight edge vs BA in the Nova vs BA thread, why not BB? Was it the Stargate thing?

Nova has abilities and attacks that BA cannot simply tank, and he's used them enough in battle for it not to be a stretch. BB barely uses transmutation, and it won't work well against someone with magical resistance to such things. Captain Marvel was hit with a tesseract bomb and survived, and BA has the same power set from a different source.

Not to mention he has a second voice in his head that constantly feeds him information and advice, as well as controlling his power output. BA should have something similar, the 'wisdom' factor of a god, but he doesn't show it often.

Nah, I always though Nova had a slight advantage. I wasn't sure if he would exploit them fully when BA is perfectly willing to kill.

Originally posted by tkitna
So you seriously think BA is going to rush right in there and speedblitz Blackagar for the KO before he can react?

Good lord

Well, he does have comparable speed to Superman. That's about the same speed Flash was at in early post crisis. So with CIS off, he could. (Alas, Adam and Billy don't blitz like Superman does in comics, even though they're capable of it..)

With CIS on, it's down to whether BB can survive the initial bull rush, and hit Adam with something powerful enough to take him out. Adam DID take out Power Girl, casually, and she's no pushover. For that matter, I believe Fate is supposed to be invulnerable, and Adam took him out too.

@Omega,

Ok but power set has to come into play at some point right? It goes back to the whole Super Strength vs Gravity manipulation thread. I mean, you can be faster and stronger then me, but if I control positrons and electrons, I'm going to shut down your central nervous system. Then you can't do jack.

BB is fully capable of doing those things and has done it on panel. Not to mention he is extremely skilled at using his powers in battle and varies his tactics according to the type of opponent he's facing.

So, even with CIS on, can we assume a character with a speed advantage gets the first hit?

That's more or less how Adam fought in his initial JSA appearence, Black Reign, and World War III anyways. No waiting around to get hit like Superman might do, he'd just go after anything he could see...

Originally posted by dmills
@Omega,

Ok but power set has to come into play at some point right? It goes back to the whole Super Strength vs Gravity manipulation thread. I mean, you can be faster and stronger then me, but if I control positrons and electrons, I'm going to shut down your central nervous system. Then you can't do jack.

BB is fully capable of doing those things and has done it on panel. Not to mention he is extremely skilled at using his powers in battle and varies his tactics according to the type of opponent he's facing.
You must prove that these things would have an effect on Black Adam.

Martian Manhunter has a shit-ton more powers than BB but he still loses to Black Adam.

@Johnny,

I've heard of this of this wisdom power. I'd like to know where I can get more on BA. Books with his best showings etc.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
You must prove that these things would have an effect on Black Adam.

Martian Manhunter has a shit-ton more powers than BB but he still loses to Black Adam.

Because he tried to fight Adam head to head. Without the CIS, he should do a lot better...

IMO.

But I don't want to make this about MM vs Adam.. There's already a Superman vs MM thread, and it's hard enough making a case for MM against Supes..

IIRC, can't he direct nearly the entirety of his voice power into a blast from his antenna? He'd just focus into BA's head. He's been shown to have weakness against massive attacks inside of his head.

Originally posted by dmills
IIRC, can't he direct nearly the entirety of his voice power into a blast from his antenna? He'd just focus into BA's head. He's been shown to have weakness against massive attacks inside of his head.

Attacks that should have made his head explode.

Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
Attacks that should have made his head explode.

Yeah, an entire terresect opening up in his brain.. I believe it was many football field lengths in size.

That's actually a crazy durability feat.

BB has a shot: His scream. Other than that BA is his superior.

BA will most probably on top of him in less than a sec. question is does BB have the durability to come back from an opening attack from adam. adam's initial attack will probably be a devastating one since he's black adam and he goes for the kill/ko almost every time. cis is on to an extent, but I added they have to AT THE VERY LEAST, KO one another. so they will be going all out somewhat... <does that sound right... lol.....

Originally posted by amnesia
BA could take a million screams from BB. BA is god and deserves his own series.

nope

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
BA will most probably on top of him in less than a sec. question is does BB have the durability to come back from an opening attack from adam. adam's initial attack will probably be a devastating one since he's black adam and he goes for the kill/ko almost every time. cis is on to an extent, but I added they have to AT THE VERY LEAST, KO one another. so they will be going all out somewhat... <does that sound right... lol.....


I see it more or less like this. BA would go for the kill, but if BB screams he would be deadly himself, it all amounts to a split second of heavy damage from both.

Originally posted by Bentley
I see it more or less like this. BA would go for the kill, but if BB screams he would be deadly himself, it all amounts to a split second of heavy damage from both.

Agreed, if Black Bolt is in a screaming mood he kills Black Adam. If he resorts to his more average use of powers, he loses. So in a forum fight with CIS on, BA wins. CIS off, I think BB takes a majority.

Originally posted by 753
Agreed, if Black Bolt is in a screaming mood he kills Black Adam. If he resorts to his more average use of powers, he loses. So in a forum fight with CIS on, BA wins. CIS off, I think BB takes a majority. '

Take CIS off, and Adam can start doing Superman like speed blitzes every time though.

Originally posted by cdtm
'

Take CIS off, and Adam can start doing Superman like speed blitzes every time though.

BB is still tough/fast enough to survive long enough to scream.

Originally posted by 753
BB is still tough/fast enough to survive long enough to scream.

You think he's that much tougher than Power Girl?

I don't. I think he's TOUGHER, but not that much tougher. (I mean, she's basically Supermans other cousin. Only reason she's weaker is the gender differences...)

Originally posted by cdtm
You think he's that much tougher than Power Girl?

I don't. I think he's TOUGHER, but not that much tougher. (I mean, she's basically Supermans other cousin. Only reason she's weaker is the gender differences...)

I think he is durable/fast enough to survive long enough to scream, that would take a lot less than a second. Because the scream isn't really sonic, all he has to do is activate the speech center of his brain to project the electron disruption field and BB has superhuman reactions (standard human is 0.2 seconds). I know BA is strong and fast, but not enough to down BB before he can even react. Besides, the scream is an a area attack that will hit BA no matter where he is or how fast he's moving arrounf BB, there is no need to tag him. He is better equipped for this fight than PG who has to slug it out and put her own speed/strengh/durabilty against BA's.

I think SM is actually freakshly stronger than the rest of his species.

What happens if BB says "boom"?

BB can split it with BA, BB is powerful enough to go head up with BA, have people forgotten already that BB has fought Savage, Hulk 2x, Gladiator 2x, Thor, Ikaris etc this by no means a cake walk for BA.

BB 5/10

BA ftw

Originally posted by the Darkone
BB can split it with BA, BB is powerful enough to go head up with BA, have people forgotten already that BB has fought Savage, Hulk 2x, Gladiator 2x, Thor, Ikaris etc this by no means a cake walk for BA.

BB 5/10

I haven't forgotten.

My main argument has been, with CIS off, BA has the quicker draw since he has near light speed. With CIS on, he still one shotted Martian Manhunter, Dr. Fate, and Power Girl. Any one of them should give the characters BB fought a decent fight, or even BB himself, whether they win or lose...

Just my opinion, and I'm not trying to devalue BB for it. On the contrary, I think he's one of the cooler characters.. Admired him ever since he tore into Sphinx.