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In a Wrestling Match....Champion will be the referee if anybody tries to do something different than wrestling they lose......



Can the God of Strength beat the Super Scout....

This is total spite... Herc goes down hard. Superman doesn't even have to know how to wrestle to beat him. Hercs is completely outclassed in everyway.

unless supes is using heat, arctic breath and super speed he aint winning in greco wrestling against a god who invented it

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
unless supes is using heat, arctic breath and super speed he aint winning in greco wrestling against a god who invented it pretty much

You guys have apparently never wrestled a day in your life... Superman outclasses herc in strength and speed, herc has more skill. Skill can only take you so far. If strength and speed were equal, I would give the nod to herc, but supes is stronger and faster.

Pure wrestling an no other powers I might have to go with supes.

Herc twists Supes into all kinds of funny shapes and makes him squeal like a little piggie.

Originally posted by Mshinu
Herc twists Supes into all kinds of funny shapes. Titty twister.

so no dirty tricks from herc? What's the name of the comic where Heric is in Thor's gear?

Sups gets his head in his ass.

Strenght and endurance are pretty much the same.

Sups got the speed and the wills.
Herc got the stamina (as he doesn't tired) and the skills

I'll go with Herc in a strait wrestling match.

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
Sups gets his head in his ass.

Strenght and endurance are pretty much the same.

Sups got the speed and the wills.
Herc got the stamina (as he doesn't tired) and the skills

I'll go with Herc in a strait wrestling match. they both get a shot at each other nutts in this fight, they can use it any time they see fit, but only once....

Herc wins

herc. totally

Originally posted by snyper1982
You guys have apparently never wrestled a day in your life... Superman outclasses herc in strength and speed, herc has more skill. Skill can only take you so far. If strength and speed were equal, I would give the nod to herc, but supes is stronger and faster. Dude he is the God of Strength so he is up there with top tiers in strength, like supes, Hulk, thor or Juggy...

and also some of us wrestled in high school and continued combat training in grappling in the military in micmap... so i dont see how our life experience would matter anyways in a comic fight between two differently skilled characters..

also a cross face ftw for herc's favor

Wrestling is all about technique. Supes doen'st have any, as far as I know. herc for the win

Originally posted by nicamarvin
they both get a shot at each other nutts in this fight, they can use it any time they see fit, but only once....

Supes got balls of steel!! So, unless Herc got a K-nite cup...........

Originally posted by nicamarvin
Dude he is the God of Strength so he is up there with top tiers in strength, like supes, Hulk, thor or Juggy...

Yes he has comparable strength to superman, but feats(from what I know of herc) shows supes being stronger. Speed, there is no contest whatsoever, Superman completely outclasses him. Skills, well they obviously go to herc. With the speed and strength advantage superman has, I just see no way for herc to win this.

Skills are obviously important, but when your opponent is stronger, and is insanely faster, how can you hope to win?

pretty sure everyone said if supes uses his powers he wins. other then that in a skill and pure strength supes aint winning...

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
and also some of us wrestled in high school and continued combat training in grappling in the military in micmap... so i dont see how our life experience would matter anyways in a comic fight between two differently skilled characters..

also a cross face ftw for herc's favor

You don't see how a life experience would matter in debating this? Are you serious? It gives you first hand knowledge, instead of having to guess.

It's like when people who don't know anything about fighting watch an MMA match and make retarded comments, because they don't actually know what the hell is going on.

Originally posted by BerserkersRage
Wrestling is all about technique. Supes doen'st have any, as far as I know. herc for the win



Supes got balls of steel!! So, unless Herc got a K-nite cup...........

So I guess wrestlers never do any strength training right? LULZ. Also, if wrestling is all about technique, then why do they bother with those pesky weight classes?

sigh...facepalm2


the reason our real life experience doesnt apply in a comic forum vs fight is b/c we are not comic book characters and we cannot substitute real world mechanics and our own personal experience for those of the comic characters we are arguing for or against.. we have to use what feats they have and sadly hercules wrestling feats tumph supes

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
pretty sure everyone said if supes uses his powers he wins. other then that in a skill and pure strength supes aint winning...

Speed isn't a power, it is an innate ability. If the OP wanted to compare only skills, he should have said just that. Now if you want to neuter superman, and make him equal to herc, then yeah herc is going to win. But then what was the point of this thread as we all know that, all other factors being the equal, herc is more skilled so he will get the win.

we all agreed who would win and it wasnt herc we then added in order to keep conversing.. you need to take a chill pill and chillaxe

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
sigh...facepalm2


the reason our real life experience doesnt apply in a comic forum vs fight is b/c we are not comic book characters and we cannot substitute real world mechanics and our own personal experience for those of the comic characters we are arguing for or against.. we have to use what feats they have and sadly hercules wrestling feats tumph supes


So we cannot use our real world experience to make a better estimate about what attributes are important for a match up, than someone who has never actually participated in a wrestling match? I am not substituting anything, I am using what I know about the subject at hand, and applying said knowledge to the debate.


By your logic, in an H2H fist fight to the death, superman loses to batman, as batman has better H2H skills and feats... I doubt you would agree with that though, because common sense says otherwise. You are using a very one dimensional POV for this match. There is more to wrestling than just skill, and anyone who has wrestled knows that.

why are you straw manning?

anyways if all things being equal then yes batman would win over clark but sadly that i snot the case less the OP states it as such.

Originally posted by snyper1982
So I guess wrestlers never do any strength training right? LULZ. Also, if wrestling is all about technique, then why do they bother with those pesky weight classes?

Sorry, I missed the part where I said weight training is useless. But most times it does come down to technique. It's considering all the factors: Leverage, balance, basic technique AND experience, to name a few. The OP states strictly a wrestling match. I'm not a wrestler, I'm a martial artist (and yes, I do weight training), and I know all things being equal, it all comes down to the fighter with the better technique. Have you ever watched Joyce Gracy, a skinny brazilian Jujitsu fighter, make a muscular fighter, 25-30 lbs heavier, submit? He did it often and on a regular basis. Bruce Lee is another name that comes to mind. At 5'7" and weighing in at 135 lbs, he was a beast! Read his biography someday, about the 6' + stunt men he had to teach a lesson to. All about the technique, baby!

Originally posted by BerserkersRage
Sorry, I missed the part where I said weight training is useless. But most times it does come down to technique. It's considering all the factors: Leverage, balance, basic technique AND experience, to name a few. The OP states strictly a wrestling match. I'm not a wrestler, I'm a martial artist (and yes, I do weight training), and I know all things being equal, it all comes down to the fighter with the better technique. Have you ever watched Joyce Gracy, a skinny brazilian Jujitsu fighter, make a muscular fighter, 25-30 lbs heavier, submit? He did it often and on a regular basis. Bruce Lee is another name that comes to mind. At 5'7" and weighing in at 135 lbs, he was a beast! Read his biography someday, about the 6' + stunt men he had to teach a lesson to. All about the technique, baby!

When you said it is all technique, you may as well have said that strength is useless. Otherwise you wouldn't have said that. If you believe that strength training is important, then you obviously believe there is more to it than just technique, otherwise why bother doing anything other than training your technique?

I know the OP states strictly a wrestling match. Superman doesn't have the technique that Hercs does, but is stronger, and insanely faster. Certainly being able to move so fast your opponent is effectively a statue must count for something in a wrestling match...

And yes I have watched "Royce Gracie"(the correct spelling of his name) beat people who outweighed him by a good bit more. That was also back in the infancy of MMA. Now that everyone cross trains, he is useless. I would say that Royce Gracie is better at subs and sub defense than Matt Hughes, but that didn't stop Hughes from applying an arm bar on Gracie, because Hughes was just so much stronger he could effectively force his way into the arm bar. I know Gracie didn't tap from it, but he was still completely caught, and had his elbow hyper extended because he didn't tap. Hughes said as much in an interview after the fight.

As far as Bruce Lee, well I think he would get dominated in modern MMA... But he was definitely ahead of his time.


Like I said if this was just a skills contest, herc wins hands down. But it isn't. Your skills and physical attributes are both in play.

I don't care how good a wrestler Herc is, Supes pounds him everytime. He's stronger and SO much faster that this is not even a contest. He could blitzes herc and have him on the ground in the shape of a pretzel before he even knew what happened.

Supes is not stronger than the God of Strength..

And in a ground fight skill>endurance>strength>>speed.

Sups is screwed and better tap out unless he is a fan of broken limbs. He`d do better as a luchador(sp?), especially with that outfit

also wtf is champion gunna do to superman lol

Originally posted by Battlehammer
also wtf is champion gunna do to superman lol

Disqualify him and make him cry & run to Lois in shame?

Originally posted by Mshinu
Supes is not stronger than the God of Strength..

And in a ground fight skill>endurance>strength>>speed.

Sups is screwed and better tap out unless he is a fan of broken limbs. He`d do better as a luchador(sp?), especially with that outfit yeah, he is.

superman is so much faster that his wrestling skill wouldn't matter one bit. He's a genuine super-speedster who's much stronger than base hulk.

Speed won`t help sups when Hercules performs an oil check!

Originally posted by Mshinu
Speed won`t help sups when Hercules performs an oil check! wait a minute......oil is black.....as am I.


Did you just make a racist joke? and how did you know I was black?


Reported.

Originally posted by namorsubby
wait a minute......oil is black.....as am I.


Did you just make a racist joke? and how did you know I was black?


Reported.

Going to report me for having a black girlfriend too? Shake that booty baby!

Originally posted by namorsubby
I don't care how good a wrestler Herc is, Supes pounds him everytime. He's stronger and SO much faster that this is not even a contest. He could blitzes herc and have him on the ground in the shape of a pretzel before he even knew what happened.


Do you fap to the DC logo?

Originally posted by amnesia
Do you fap to the DC logo? That depends on what exactly "fap" means(I'm not "hip" to you hooligans and your new-fangled terminology)

does "fap" mean:

A. Masturbate

B. Rascist term for a half french, half japenese person

or

C. Something else entirely

Originally posted by namorsubby
That depends on what exactly "fap" means(I'm not "hip" to you hooligans and your new-fangled terminology)

does "fap" mean:

A. Masturbate

B. Rascist term for a half french, half japenese person

or

C. Something else entirely


Are you serious? I think you know exactly what I'm talking about.

Originally posted by amnesia
Are you serious? I think you know exactly what I'm talking about. You mean you weren't literally asking me if I "fap" to the DC logo?

was that some sort of implication concerning my alleged personal bias for DC characters written in the form of a crude joke?


idda never guessed it.

Originally posted by namorsubby
You mean you weren't literally asking me if I "fap" to the DC logo?

was that some sort of implication concerning my alleged personal bias for DC characters written in the form of a crude joke?


idda never guessed it.


I think you guessed it instantly. Unless you are sort of backwards, and i don't think you are.

Judging from your previous posts, you seem pretty DC biased.

Originally posted by amnesia
I think you guessed it instantly. Unless you are sort of backwards, and i don't think you are.

Judging from your previous posts, you seem pretty DC biased. because I think a guy who races the flash can blitzes herc before he knows what's what?

Originally posted by namorsubby
because I think a guy who races the flash can blitzes herc before he knows what's what?

Current superman doesn't race the flash.

If "current" superman constitutes the past couple of years, then yeah, he does.

Superman raced wally a few years back......west mustered up a lil something at the end and smoked him, but yeah, supes is more than fast enough to blitzes and subdue herc(not to mention strong enough)

Originally posted by namorsubby
If "current" superman constitutes the past couple of years, then yeah, he does.

Superman raced wally a few years back......west mustered up a lil something at the end and smoked him, but yeah, supes is more than fast enough to blitzes and subdue herc(not to mention strong enough)

Current superman =/ hercules/Thor (strength that is)

And Wally can go as fast as he wants.

racing the flash has nothing to do with combat speed... :-/

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
racing the flash has nothing to do with combat speed... :-/

superman do have FTL reflexes.

Originally posted by amnesia
Current superman =/ hercules/Thor (strength that is)

And Wally can go as fast as he wants. how do you figure?

only because he taps into the speed force energy, Flash has admitted that in terms of raw speed, superman is at least even, and maybe even slighty faster than he

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff102/Wally_Respect2/supcatfla4.jpg

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
racing the flash has nothing to do with combat speed... :-/
fast enough to grab wally in stride
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff102/Wally_Respect2/supcatfla8.jpg

Originally posted by amnesia
superman do have FTL reflexes.

I wouldn't say FTL. But I know he has super speed. Just that the racing the flash feat is NOT a good example of a speed blitz ability.

Superman races Flash in charity races...
anyway Herc kicks him in the balls and then the Champion rules him out

"When you said it is all technique, you may as well have said that strength is useless. Otherwise you wouldn't have said that. If you believe that strength training is important, then you obviously believe there is more to it than just technique, otherwise why bother doing anything other than training your technique?"

I said it's all ABOUT technique. Not once did I say that strength doesn't come into play. You taking my comment to the extreme is like me accusing you of saying that technique is useless. But I know you didn't say that and I'm not gonna try to put words in your mouth.

In this thread, we are havin g the Marvelites claiming Herc is as strong as Supes and the DC camp (which includes me) saying he is not. That is a subject that will go on forever here and something I don't want to get involved in here. So, ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL, skill in Wrestling comes into play.

"And yes I have watched "Royce Gracie"(the correct spelling of his name) beat people who outweighed him by a good bit more. That was also back in the infancy of MMA. Now that everyone cross trains, he is useless. I would say that Royce Gracie is better at subs and sub defense than Matt Hughes, but that didn't stop Hughes from applying an arm bar on Gracie, because Hughes was just so much stronger he could effectively force his way into the arm bar...."

I never stated that Gracie was undefeated, did I? Regardless if Gracie was doing it in MMA's infancy, he was making bigger men tap out. Regularly. Royce was doing his damage in '93 and '94, while Hughes was still in high school in '92. Besides, Hughes was a wrestling champion, highly skilled in his own right. That doesn't take away the fact that Gracie was making big men (which includes my man, Kimo from Hawaii) tap out. So, Hughes catching Gracie in an arm bar is besides the point I was trying to make.

Your analagy about Bruce Lee is, in the same way, a moot point, whether I agree with you or not. He did what he did to the stuntmen, who were much bigger and stronger than him. BTW, Bruce Lee also incorporated wrestling technique into Jeet Kune Do, thereby establishing the value of wrestling skills in his eyes.

"Like I said if this was just a skills contest, herc wins hands down. But it isn't. Your skills and physical attributes are both in play."

This is where you and I are in complete agreement. The only difference is that I am looking at the fight on even terms (again, not to add to the fire about who is stronger) where you are giving props to Supes superior stats.

I`d give this to Herc even if Supes was twice as strong as him (which he isn`t).
An experienced wrestler can very easily dominate someone who has superior "stats", at least in a match like this.

Speed is pretty irrelevant, grappling is a game of chess not a race.

Originally posted by Mshinu
Supes is not stronger than the God of Strength..

And in a ground fight skill>endurance>strength>>speed.

Sups is screwed and better tap out unless he is a fan of broken limbs. He`d do better as a luchador(sp?), especially with that outfit

Proof that Hercs is stronger? Most people agree that hercs is on Thors level in strength. Most people also agree that Superman is stronger than Thor. QED. Obviously you disagree with that though, which is fine, as everyone is entitled their opinion.

I would put skill=strength>endurance>speed. The other thing is that while speed may be the least important, Superman has so much more of it that it is a huge advantage. More than enough to counteract his skills deficit. Also Superman isn't exactly an idiot. He trains multiple Martial Arts.

Originally posted by BerserkersRage
"When you said it is all technique, you may as well have said that strength is useless. Otherwise you wouldn't have said that. If you believe that strength training is important, then you obviously believe there is more to it than just technique, otherwise why bother doing anything other than training your technique?"

I said it's all ABOUT technique. Not once did I say that strength doesn't come into play. You taking my comment to the extreme is like me accusing you of saying that technique is useless. But I know you didn't say that and I'm not gonna try to put words in your mouth.

In this thread, we are havin g the Marvelites claiming Herc is as strong as Supes and the DC camp (which includes me) saying he is not. That is a subject that will go on forever here and something I don't want to get involved in here. So, ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL, skill in Wrestling comes into play.

"And yes I have watched "Royce Gracie"(the correct spelling of his name) beat people who outweighed him by a good bit more. That was also back in the infancy of MMA. Now that everyone cross trains, he is useless. I would say that Royce Gracie is better at subs and sub defense than Matt Hughes, but that didn't stop Hughes from applying an arm bar on Gracie, because Hughes was just so much stronger he could effectively force his way into the arm bar...."

I never stated that Gracie was undefeated, did I? Regardless if Gracie was doing it in MMA's infancy, he was making bigger men tap out. Regularly. Royce was doing his damage in '93 and '94, while Hughes was still in high school in '92. Besides, Hughes was a wrestling champion, highly skilled in his own right. That doesn't take away the fact that Gracie was making big men (which includes my man, Kimo from Hawaii) tap out. So, Hughes catching Gracie in an arm bar is besides the point I was trying to make.

Your analagy about Bruce Lee is, in the same way, a moot point, whether I agree with you or not. He did what he did to the stuntmen, who were much bigger and stronger than him. BTW, Bruce Lee also incorporated wrestling technique into Jeet Kune Do, thereby establishing the value of wrestling skills in his eyes.

"Like I said if this was just a skills contest, herc wins hands down. But it isn't. Your skills and physical attributes are both in play."

This is where you and I are in complete agreement. The only difference is that I am looking at the fight on even terms (again, not to add to the fire about who is stronger) where you are giving props to Supes superior stats.

I understand that Gracie was tapping out bigger men. Men who had no training whatsoever. But superman is an experienced martial artist in his own right, so I just don't think it is coming to come down to pure skill.

can captain marvel run faster than superman?

Probably not.

Originally posted by Mshinu
I`d give this to Herc even if Supes was twice as strong as him (which he isn`t).
An experienced wrestler can very easily dominate someone who has superior "stats", at least in a match like this.

Speed is pretty irrelevant, grappling is a game of chess not a race.

Yes speed is pretty irrelevant in a grappling match in human terms. That is because we humans are all fairly close in speed. That is not the case here. If you put someone in a wrestling match who could literally run behind you before you could react, he would dominate his weight class. He would easily be a national champion.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Probably not. didnt flash think he was using the speed force when they was running together?

Superman wins this (for the same reasons I think Gladiator would), and I dislike Superman actually...

Originally posted by brownqk
Superman wins this (for the same reasons I think Gladiator would), and I dislike Superman actually... SuperSpeed is not allowed in Wrestling....

It's not so much speed as quickness, or battle reaction time. I just can't see Herc being able to keep up with Supes in that regard, or endurance or strength for that matter--which we'll say is debatable simply for the sake of argument.

Originally posted by brownqk
It's not so much speed as quickness, or battle reaction time. I just can't see Herc being able to keep up with Supes in endurance o
Dude he is Inmortal, supes aitn....
well CIS is ON and you know how supes like to get physical,

Originally posted by nicamarvin
SuperSpeed is not allowed in Wrestling....

So you are effectively handicapping superman for the match? It's not like some power he turns on. He is just naturally that fast.

Originally posted by snyper1982
So you are effectively handicapping superman for the match? It's not like some power he turns on. He is just naturally that fast. then why he brawls people.....

Originally posted by nicamarvin
then why he brawls people.....

What does that have to do with you handicapping his speed? Sure he brawls people, but he always has his speed. You are saying he can't...
Or are you asking why he brawls people without using superspeed all the time? To which I ask you, when you get up in the morning, are you running full sprint all the time?