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1. H2H
2. bat gets suit and everlasting 'rangs. Elektra gets sais.

Might go with Elektra.

1. Electra
2. Bats

I would give it to Elektra in scenario one for a high majority.

Even split for the second.

Can she use her telepathy? If so she is looking at a clean sweep in both scenarios. Batman would need his utility belt.

Batman

Batman

Batman all day every day.

Originally posted by ares834
1. Electra
2. Bats

Originally posted by Badabing
Batman

Batman

Batman.

Electra

Bats with gadgets

Originally posted by Warlord
Electra

Bats with gadgets

he doesnt get gadgets, he gets only batarangs and standard armor.

Batman wins in both scenarios

This is also the third time this thread has been done.

One huge 30 page thread dealing with strictly head to head (in which everybody was being retarded and giving Bruce 9/10 wins until Jinzin came in and wrecked their shit):
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=507151

One smaller thread in which I proposed the same scenarios:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=510449&pagenumber=1

Originally posted by Konton
This is also the third time this thread has been done.

One huge 30 page thread dealing with strictly head to head (in which everybody was being retarded and giving Bruce 9/10 wins until Jinzin came in and wrecked their shit):
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=507151

One smaller thread in which I proposed the same scenarios:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=510449&pagenumber=1

You seem to be forgetting that Elektra lost to Bullseye (and died in the process.) Now are you really trying to say that Bullseye (armed or otherwise) is better then Batman? That's ridiculous. The only martial-artist in Marvel that I would ever say equals Bats is Cap. If Elektra has beaten Cap (which I doubt) then she stands a chance. Otherwise, she isn't winning.

Originally posted by Konton
One huge 30 page thread dealing with strictly head to head (in which everybody was being retarded and giving Bruce 9/10 wins until Jinzin came in and wrecked their shit):
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=507151

Lulz, you mean in spite of his "nuh uh" type of dismissals in response to Batman's feats that he didn't have counters for? But yeah, other than that, he was "wrecking shit."

Anyway, Batman wins in both.

Originally posted by DarthDaniel1001
You seem to be forgetting that Elektra lost to Bullseye (and died in the process.) Now are you really trying to say that Bullseye (armed or otherwise) is better then Batman? That's ridiculous. The only martial-artist in Marvel that I would ever say equals Bats is Cap. If Elektra has beaten Cap (which I doubt) then she stands a chance. Otherwise, she isn't winning.

I take it you didn't read Elektra's ongoing and didn't know that Bullseye spent months training against holographic duplicates of Elektra to memorize her every recorded move. I also take it you forget that Elektra has been shown to be vastly superior to her pre-death counterpart in every appearance she has appeared in. And finally, I take it you completely forgot about Elektra: Dark Reign in which Elektra curb stomped Bullseye while drugged, injured, sleep deprived, and poisoned.

Gamora, Mantis, Moondragon, Ogun, Stick, Iron Fist and Shang Chi are all Marvel martial artists who would take a majority against Bruce.

Originally posted by Konton


Gamora, Mantis, Moondragon, Ogun, Stick, Iron Fist and Shang Chi are all Marvel martial artists who would take a majority against Bruce.

Not to forget Wolverine.

BATMAN

Originally posted by Konton


One huge 30 page thread dealing with strictly head to head (in which everybody was being retarded and giving Bruce 9/10 wins until Jinzin came in and wrecked their shit):
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=507151

He must not have persuaded enough voters because Batman was winning 77% of the votes.

Originally posted by Konton
I take it you didn't read Elektra's ongoing and didn't know that Bullseye spent months training against holographic duplicates of Elektra to memorize her every recorded move. I also take it you forget that Elektra has been shown to be vastly superior to her pre-death counterpart in every appearance she has appeared in. And finally, I take it you completely forgot about Elektra: Dark Reign in which Elektra curb stomped Bullseye while drugged, injured, sleep deprived, and poisoned.

Gamora, Mantis, Moondragon, Ogun, Stick, Iron Fist and Shang Chi are all Marvel martial artists who would take a majority against Bruce. [/QU

Shang Chi? I doubt it. Iron Fist, maybe. Stick trained Daredevil if I remember correctly but I don't see him "winning a majority" either. Isn't Moondragon a telepath? What has she done to put her above Batman? And finally, who are Mantis and Ogun?

As for Elektra, while you just convinced me of her enhanced skills, I'm still skeptical that she can beat Bruce. He has mastered every major form of martial arts in the world after all.

Batman wins both

bump

Originally posted by DarthDaniel1001
Originally posted by Konton

He has mastered every major form of martial arts in the world after all. no, he hasnt.

Originally posted by King Castle
no, he hasnt. If by major he means the best he can have for his line of work I will buy it.

Originally posted by iceman24567
If by major he means the best he can have for his line of work I will buy it. okay.

you can tell this guy seriously lacked comic knowledge, though.

Originally posted by King Castle
okay.

you can tell this guy seriously lacked comic knowledge, though. Or he could just be a Batman fanboy

Originally posted by King Castle
no, he hasnt.



http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/3493/batskills.jpg

http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/6491/batskills2.jpg

http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/2036/batskills8.jpg

Originally posted by Badabing
Batman

Batman

Originally posted by batdude123


http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/3493/batskills.jpg

http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/6491/batskills2.jpg

http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/2036/batskills8.jpg

http://i937.photobucket.com/albums/ad214/prepman005/Bravo_Bravo.gif


http://i937.photobucket.com/albums/ad214/prepman005/cat_orange_wave-1.gif

Originally posted by batdude123


http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/3493/batskills.jpg

http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/6491/batskills2.jpg

http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/2036/batskills8.jpg



nice. i love electra but my money'd be on bats.

sigh.. if by major he meant relevant arts to him that is fine if by major he meant the worlds majority he is wrong just by bio's and on panel representation of needing to be taught other forms of combat and falling short to others who have studied all or most of world MA in the DCU.

Her Dark Reign feats were pretty solid the best Dark Reign book imo her stats give her the edge even if she isnt as skilled

Originally posted by King Castle
sigh.. if by major he meant relevant arts to him that is fine if by major he meant the worlds majority he is wrong just by bio's and on panel representation of needing to be taught other forms of combat and falling short to others who have studied all or most of world MA in the DCU.

He's not wrong. You are.

Deal with it.

awesome debating.

I would argue on bat's being more skilled then her. he may know more variations of MA but i dont see him being as skilled in execution, parrying, counter, combat mindset as her.

i guess one has to ask if ppl think Batgirl, Echo are as skilled as batman or daredevil in order to make a comparison between overall knowledge and fighting skill.

Originally posted by batdude123
Lulz, you mean in spite of his "nuh uh" type of dismissals in response to Batman's feats that he didn't have counters for? But yeah, other than that, he was "wrecking shit."

Anyway, Batman wins in both.




Yeah, sorry if I don't think that Batman using pressure points on goons, and Grundy, beating up a mind controlled Shiva, and getting the crap kicked out of him by Deathstroke were enough of a reason to give him a definite win over Elektra.

Originally posted by Badabing
Batman

Batman

Originally posted by King Castle
awesome debating.

I would argue on bat's being more skilled then her. he may know more variations of MA but i dont see him being as skilled in execution, parrying, counter, combat mindset as her.

i guess one has to ask if ppl think Batgirl, Echo are as skilled as batman or daredevil in order to make a comparison between overall knowledge and fighting skill. I see what you mean but Batmans not only a martial arts egghead he fights EVERY night to hone his skills his execution isnt slacking and his parrying/countering is what hes known for how do you think he stomps a shithole in Bane? who is a highly skilled martial artists in his own right but he also is physically superior

Originally posted by iceman24567
Her Dark Reign feats were pretty solid the best Dark Reign book imo her stats give her the edge even if she isnt as skilled

Okay... question...
Why are we assuming Elektra's not as skilled?


Given the fact that she's done more impressive feats in h2h than a number of her "peers" under worse circumstances AND can use her skill to memic or produce TK, TP, and a number of other tactics like the silent scream, wouldn't that lend credability to her being more skilled?

When has she appeared to be lacking in skill?

What hth feats place her above Batman?

I would argue her noncholant ownage of Taskmaster makes a pretty strong case.

Originally posted by iceman24567
I see what you mean but Batmans not only a martial arts egghead he fights EVERY night to hone his skills his execution isnt slacking and his parrying/countering is what hes known for how do you think he stomps a shithole in Bane? who is a highly skilled martial artists in his own right but he also is physically superior fully geared bats, bats.

h2h against current Bane he get's broken again imo without dues ex machina.

Originally posted by jinzin
I would argue her noncholant ownage of Taskmaster makes a pretty strong case.

Pretty good. Batman stalemated Karate Kid in air combat for the first time.

Originally posted by jinzin
Okay... question...
Why are we assuming Elektra's not as skilled?


Given the fact that she's done more impressive feats in h2h than a number of her "peers" under worse circumstances AND can use her skill to memic or produce TK, TP, and a number of other tactics like the silent scream, wouldn't that lend credability to her being more skilled?

When has she appeared to be lacking in skill? Uh I hear the same argument when Shang Chi is in a thread threw skill hes able to chi amp blah blah. Strictly h2h I mean I dont care if shes gained all these exotic abilities threw skill. Im saying his martial arts ability is above hers even if its just by a hair

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Pretty good. Batman stalemated Karate Kid in air combat for the first time. dont forget to put it all in context, pls. i dont like when ppl misrepresent things

No.

Originally posted by iceman24567
Uh I hear the same argument when Shang Chi is in a thread threw skill hes able to chi amp blah blah. Strictly h2h I mean I dont care if shes gained all these exotic abilities threw skill. Im saying his martial arts ability is above hers even if its just by a hair

I agree.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Pretty good. Batman stalemated Karate Kid in air combat for the first time.


Air combat? I know of several Batamn vs. KK fights and all of them were circumstantial or inclusive of context that makes them nowhere near as impressive as it sounds at face value. Originally posted by iceman24567
Uh I hear the same argument when Shang Chi is in a thread threw skill hes able to chi amp blah blah. Strictly h2h I mean I dont care if shes gained all these exotic abilities threw skill. Im saying his martial arts ability is above hers even if its just by a hair

And I'm asking what makes you think that?

Originally posted by King Castle
fully geared bats, bats.

h2h against current Bane he get's broken again imo without dues ex machina. You think Bane durabilty and insane strength is enough to beat Batman atleast 6/10? Gotta dissagree Batman hits hard enough to put Bane down hes also faster he would beat Bane in strictly h2h without his suit

Originally posted by King Castle
dont forget to put it all in context, pls. i dont like when ppl misrepresent things

Here's the fight:
Page 1
page 2

Then something happened and Bats got away. KK looked to be getting better hits to me, though the art didn't always make it clear what was a hit and what wasn't (some are clear, but sometimes there's just a few lines near what could either be a wiff or hit).

Originally posted by jinzin
Air combat? I know of several Batamn vs. KK fights and all of them were circumstantial or inclusive of context that makes them nowhere near as impressive as it sounds at face value.

And I'm asking what makes you think that?

Brave and the Bold. From what I remember, they only fought twice. Unless you can state the issues. Anyway, 3boot Val was commenting on how much he can learn from Batman. They fight for a bit, until it gets interrupted, but is surprised on how Batman was fighting with the Legion ring for the first time. It was a decent fight.

Originally posted by Q99
Here's the fight:
Page 1
page 2

Then something happened and Bats got away. KK looked to be getting better hits to me.

There it is. Both seemed to get solid hits.

Originally posted by Q99
Here's the fight:
Page 1
page 2

Then something happened and Bats got away. KK looked to be getting better hits to me, though the art didn't always make it clear what was a hit and what wasn't (some are clear, but sometimes there's just a few lines near what could either be a wiff or hit).

Oh yeah I honestly forgot about that fight.

Did Batman fight KK any other time? I only know of 2.

Originally posted by jinzin
Air combat? I know of several Batamn vs. KK fights and all of them were circumstantial or inclusive of context that makes them nowhere near as impressive as it sounds at face value.

And I'm asking what makes you think that? The fact that shes superhuman and her various feats during Dark Reign didnt make her skill as impressive as alot of people make her out to be.

Yeah, though I might be remembering the same fight told in 2 different issues.

I don't remember the issue numbers though I just remember it being brought up in the Bats/Spidey thread from yesteryear.


BTW: Not sure holding his own with 3boot Val is enough of a reason to assert that he beats Elektra.

Elektra's beaten and held her own against Logan as well.

Batman winning in a h2h for the majority isn't something that computes IMO.

Originally posted by iceman24567
The fact that shes superhuman and her various feats during Dark Reign didnt make her skill as impressive as alot of people make her out to be.

She was in the worst condition she's ever been and still pulled those feats off.


No selling Palidin, Bullseye, and legit bullet timing aren't impressive even though she was practically walkin on her deathbed?

I know what state was in drugged and beaten while restrained from what I can remember but like I said I saw nothing overly impressive skill wise. Will you not be satified until I say yea she is as skilled or more skilled than Batman?

Originally posted by jinzin
She was in the worst condition she's ever been and still pulled those feats off.


No selling Palidin, Bullseye, and legit bullet timing aren't impressive even though she was practically walkin on her deathbed?

yo,

people seem to think you have a negative opinion of bats. where would YOU place him in relation to the other uber-h2h guys?

personally, i think h2h between them is very close but i give a very slight nod to bats. if we're talking both at full abilities, bats would have a tough time and elektra would take him i think because of her psi (as opposed to 'sai' heh--i crack me up) skills.

Well, honestly, I just don't think it makes a lot of sense to call Batman better skilled than Elektra because you don't think Elektra was using a ton of skill in one mini. Especially when that mini has her on her practical deathbed.

I could find plenty of 5 story arcs where Batman did nothing even remotely as skilled as Elektra in Dark Reign and some of them even while Bats is amped or prepped for the arc. But that wouldn't make my overall impression of the character.

As it stood, IMO at least, Elektra was using plenty enough skill under hard enough circumstances, that you would expect from any high tier MA, and actually performed better than said expectations to be honest.

In any case, I didn't see anything in Dark Reign that would dictate Batman's more skilled than she is, even if it is by a hair.


You're of course entitled to your opinion, I just wanted to understand the "whys" of that opinion is all.

Originally posted by leonidas
yo,

people seem to think you have a negative opinion of bats. where would YOU place him in relation to the other uber-h2h guys?

personally, i think h2h between them is very close but i give a very slight nod to bats. if we're talking both at full abilities, bats would have a tough time and elektra would take him i think because of her psi (as opposed to 'sai' heh--i crack me up) skills.

Personally?

Personally I think Batman is Bad. Ass. Although... Batman gets a lot of hype but doesn't necessarily always live up to it.

TBH sometimes I get surprised at the people who beat him or give him a rough time because I view him as the Cap of his universe... but well... he isn't.

I'd say Batman is up there with the likes of Daredevil in skill, but I honestly wouldn't say he's more skilled, not at all.

I agree that a h2h could be close between the two, but I'm not convinced he's more skilled than Elektra.

She's nearly as hyped as he is.

Well shes been a Skrull for years Im not sure for how long actually dont know what feats are hers and what feats arent

Pretty sure everything up through EOTS was her, at least that seemed to be the concensus after Dark Reign came out.

i wouldnt place elektra above bruce either. sure if she gets all her skills like tp and whatnot shed be above him. but in pure hth skill they are both close with bats getting the edge.

So.... why does he get the edge?

Originally posted by iceman24567
Well shes been a Skrull for years Im not sure for how long actually dont know what feats are hers and what feats arent so you rather dismiss them rather then take them at face value, was the skrull version fighting skills and powers above of what she is normally depicted as?

Originally posted by jinzin
Personally?

Personally I think Batman is Bad. Ass. Although... Batman gets a lot of hype but doesn't necessarily always live up to it.

TBH sometimes I get surprised at the people who beat him or give him a rough time because I view him as the Cap of his universe... but well... he isn't.

I'd say Batman is up there with the likes of Daredevil in skill, but I honestly wouldn't say he's more skilled, not at all.

I agree that a h2h could be close between the two, but I'm not convinced he's more skilled than Elektra.

She's nearly as hyped as he is.

i'd put him above dd, but agian it would be pretty close. he DOES have some low showings, but over the years i've found he may lose, but generally he comes back to beat whoever it is. and obviously he's got his fair share of high showings. i think the general consensus is he IS the cap of his universe. imo i think he has enough solid showings to live up to it.

his extensive knowleadge of all the arts. his ability to adapt. his battles with karate kid, etc... even when pre crisis val beat bruce he hinted that he would have beaten him the next time. out of 10 o give bruce at least 6/10.

Originally posted by King Castle
so you rather dismiss them rather then take them at face value, was the skrull version fighting skills and powers above of what she is normally depicted as? Did I say I was dissmissing her feats? I was stating that I wasnt sure what feats were actually hers ya big jerk

Originally posted by leonidas
i'd put him above dd, but agian it would be pretty close. he DOES have some low showings, but over the years i've found he may lose, but generally he comes back to beat whoever it is. and obviously he's got his fair share of high showings. i think the general consensus is he IS the cap of his universe. imo i think he has enough solid showings to live up to it.

If this was a storyline fight, then sure I could absolutely see Batman adapt and overcome, but just being plopped down in some field or arena to fight Elektra or DD, I wouldn't think of him as more skilled.

Not IMO.

Originally posted by jinzin
If this was a storyline fight, then sure I could absolutely see Batman adapt and overcome, but just being plopped down in some field or arena to fight Elektra or DD, I wouldn't think of him as more skilled.

Not IMO.

that's fair enough.

Originally posted by King Castle
so you rather dismiss them rather then take them at face value, was the skrull version fighting skills and powers above of what she is normally depicted as?
I pretty sure they showed when she was taken and he was right after eots. They took elektra at the end of her mini. That was when the skrull took her. Which is haft the reason I think secret invasion was an idea they had for a pretty good while.

Originally posted by leonidas
i'd put him above dd, but agian it would be pretty close. he DOES have some low showings, but over the years i've found he may lose, but generally he comes back to beat whoever it is. and obviously he's got his fair share of high showings. i think the general consensus is he IS the cap of his universe. imo i think he has enough solid showings to live up to it.

basically. I see each of them as near equals, with batman getting a small edge.

Everything that happened in Bendis' Daredevil and New Avengers was a skrull as well as everything that happened after a point in EOTS.
In the Dark Reign mini they mention it was her when she took down the Helicarier but everything after that point was a skrull I believe.