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inspired by the hulk vs cheetah thread. how does this turn out? both are bloodlusted and out for the kill.

Apocalypse. Stronger, much better power output, much more versatile, and more experienced.

SPIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITe


Apocalypse stomps Cheetah

Poccy turns her into a mascot for his Horsemen.

Damn. why are people being so mean to Cheetah?

Cheetah makes Apoc realize he's a furry just before castrating him with her claws.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Apocalypse. Stronger, much better power output, much more versatile, and more experienced.

how is he stronger when she can use her speed to amp her punches?

I really fail to see how Apoc even lays a hand on her given her enormous speed advantage. She's currently somewhere between Wonder Woman and Flash in terms of speed isn't she? Or did her Zoom amp wear off?

Originally posted by -Pr-
how is he stronger when she can use her speed to amp her punches?

Apocalypse is atleast class 100 at average size. He can grow in size and become even stronger.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I really fail to see how Apoc even lays a hand on her given her enormous speed advantage. She's currently somewhere between Wonder Woman and Flash in terms of speed isn't she? Or did her Zoom amp wear off?

BULL! She failed to dodge a bazuka. And this was in 09-10.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Apocalypse is atleast class 100 at average size. He can grow in size and become even stronger.



BULL! She failed to dodge a bazuka. And this was in 09-10.
She's also been one-punched by Batman and restrained by being cuffed to a pole as well as being beaten twice by Catwoman in h/h.

The point is that low showings are low showings. Don't make me bring up the table.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
She's also been one-punched by Batman and restrained by being cuffed to a pole as well as being beaten twice by Catwoman in h/h.

The point is that low showings are low showings. Don't make me bring up the table.

I don't see the problem with low-balling if y'all are high-balling her.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
I don't see the problem with low-balling if y'all are high-balling her.
So you admit to being knowingly and purposely recalcitrant? You might as well wear a hat saying "I'm a troll"

Originally posted by Omega Vision
So you admit to being knowingly and purposely recalcitrant? You might as well wear a hat saying "I'm a troll"

I'm not low-balling and am not purposely recalcitrant. Those are her average showings.

Cheetah speedblitzes for some wins.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I really fail to see how Apoc even lays a hand on her given her enormous speed advantage. She's currently somewhere between Wonder Woman and Flash in terms of speed isn't she? Or did her Zoom amp wear off?

You've got it.




Cheetah's also class 100+. Cheetah's power was used to *take down Superman* once.


That said, Apoc does have stuff like teleportation and energy blasts, so he could try the range game.


http://i42.tinypic.com/iejh4x.jpg
http://i44.tinypic.com/2eqdrw2.jpg


-Female Cheetah is this, but faster.




The thing is, she has like a dozen herald class fights, and two-three streetlevel ones.

It's not high-balling if it's the norm. She's a deific champion and regular opponent of a top-tier.



Note that in that very fight, Wonder Woman couldn't hit her in an enclosed area and was being sliced apart, and she was not hit by it, WW just grabbed her while she was avoiding it/temporarily off her feat. Diana used the blast as a tactical tool to direct her movements but she was neither hit nor hurt.


Don't misrepresent, she showed very high speed in that fight, and it was an indoor fight even.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
I'm not low-balling and am not purposely recalcitrant. Those are her average showings.
If you have a character that can keep pace with the Flash and go toe to toe with Wonder Woman who then has some appearances where she gets one punched and beaten by streetlevelers the logical thing to do is not to assume that her true power level is somewhere in the middle but rather to look at the low showings as examples of shitty writing.

You're employing the Golden Means Fallacy.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
If you have a character that can keep pace with the Flash and go toe to toe with Wonder Woman who then has some appearances where she gets one punched and beaten by streetlevelers the logical thing to do is not to assume that her true power level is somewhere in the middle but rather to look at the low showings as examples of shitty writing.

You're employing the Golden Means Fallacy.


Yea, because Street levelers...

normally do so well against her


When 5 of the Secret Six are getting beat at once while the opponent's barely trying, then it's a pretty good sign they aren't facing a street level.

Originally posted by Q99
Cheetah's also class 100+. Cheetah's power was used to *take down Superman* once.
But she can't grow in size and be even stronger. Apocalypse at regular size put She-Hulk in a choke hold with ONE ARM!




Either a low showing for Superman or high showing for Sebastian. That's exactly what I'm talking about. She normally doesn't win against Wonder Woman, so how is it that all of a sudden a weaker version of Cheetah manages to stomp Superman who happens to be stronger than Wonder Woman?




I'm not sure about this one. Let me think about it and do a bit of research.




My bad

But what is Barb gonna do once Apoc starts to levitate? How is she gonna breach his barrier? How is she gonna resist his blasts? Matter manipulation?

Originally posted by Q99
Yea, because Street levelers...

normally do so well against her

Originally posted by Q99
Yea, because Street levelers...

http://i482.photobucket.com/albums/rr183/DoopPhotobucket10/secretsix/SS3p17.jpg

normally do so well against her

She wouldn't be able to do that to Bane during Salvation Run.

there is some ridiculous nonsense in this thread

cheetah has no bee's knees going up against Apoc who is superior in every way save for speed

Originally posted by TheTyrant
She wouldn't be able to do that to Bane during Salvation Run.

Sure she would if the writing vaguely fit with her established character. Unless she was supposed to be greatly depowered for some reason.

Let's see what else we got... well, Bolt's 50,000 volts didn't work and he got left behind while she went after their target, and he's far from street level. Firehawk's not either. Firestorm got ripped open, as did Doctor Light, shredded Flash, tug-o-war with Donna Troy, first encounter with WW she was frighteningly dangerous, and well, you get the idea.




Even though Cheetah's often been shown to be a threat to people equal or more powerful than Apoc like Superman? A lot of it because of speed, but with enough strength and toughness and deadly claws and such to make that speed a threat even to people of Apoc's level.

Her track record against high end types is pretty good.

Originally posted by Q99
Sure she would if the writing vaguely fit with her established character. Unless she was supposed to be greatly depowered for some reason.

Let's see what else we got... well, Bolt's 50,000 volts didn't work and he got left behind while she went after their target, and he's far from street level. Firestorm got ripped open, as did Doctor Light, shredded Flash, tug-o-war with Donna Troy, first encounter with WW she was frighteningly dangerous, and well, you get the idea.




Even though Cheetah's often been shown to be a threat to people equal or more powerful than Superman? A lot of it because of speed, but with enough strength and toughness and deadly claws and such to make that speed a threat even to people of Apoc's level.

Her track record against high end types is pretty good. What's cheetah gonna do if Apoc decides to grow into the size of a skyscraper and crush her with his foot?

yeah...NOTHING

Originally posted by Starscream M
What's cheetah gonna do if Apoc decides to grow into the size of a skyscraper and crush her with his foot?

yeah...NOTHING

Move out of the way with super speed?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Move out of the way with super speed? ok so she's gonna run away? that counts as a loss

Originally posted by Starscream M
ok so she's gonna run away? that counts as a loss

Moving out of the way of a giant foot is a loss now?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Moving out of the way of a giant foot is a loss now? well if that is her only manuever in the battle is to run constantly, then yeah its a loss

she cant do shit to a 100 foot tall Apoc

Originally posted by Starscream M
ok so she's gonna run away? that counts as a loss

No, she'll move out of the way of the attack, then try to rip up his heals at superspeed/pull his feet out from under him, unbalancing him and make him fall, then let's say... next move would be to slice across his throat when he falls, or goes for the eyes.... or have a plan of attack of running up him and going for the eyes to begin with. That sounds like a course for her.


The 'turn giant' thing actually isn't all that good of a move by Apoc because it makes him so much less agile. Probably why he doesn't do it in more fights, and in this case he'll never hit her physically at that size.

Energy blasts are a better choice, they're faster.

Apocalypse is more than just a tougher Giant Man, and turning giant doesn't help all that much.

Originally posted by Starscream M
well if that is her only manuever in the battle is to run constantly, then yeah its a loss

she cant do shit to a 100 foot tall Apoc

So she can't constantly evade his giant lumbering ass and strike repeatedly? Otherwise she loses?

Originally posted by Q99
No, she'll move out of the way of the attack, then rip up his heals at superspeed/pull his feet out from under him, unbalancing him and make him fall, then let's say... slice across his throat when he falls, or goes for the eyes.... or just run up him and go for the eyes to begin with.


The 'turn giant' thing actually isn't all that good of a move by Apoc because it makes him so much less agile. apoc can manipulate his own matter

her attacks would do little beyond superficial injuries

and at 100 feet tall, she could barely scratch his surface skin...he'll crush her like a insect

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
So she can't constantly evade his giant lumbering ass and strike repeatedly? Otherwise she loses? her strikes won't do jack to a giant Apoc

it will be like a insect scratching away


apoc's skin would be a couple of feet thick as it is all proportional.

Originally posted by Starscream M
apoc can manipulate his own matter

her attacks would do little beyond superficial injuries

and at 100 feet tall, she could barely scratch his surface skin...he'll crush her like a insect


Except they're still class 100+ attacks, she is strong enough to push over someone who's skyscraper tall.

At 100 foot fall, she'll still be able to rip out his eyes and go for the neck, and he won't hit her. He's just not agile or fast enough at that size.




Yea, this is *Cheetah*, she can get through a couple feet of stuff (which'd need more than 100 feet to get that thick, which makes the hitting problem even worse). Especially at vitals.

Originally posted by Q99
Except they're still class 100+ attacks, she is strong enough to push over someone who's skyscraper tall.
no she won't

when has she ever pushed anything close to the weight of a skyscraper?

jeez you're making things up now

Edit.

Originally posted by Starscream M
no she won't

when has she ever pushed anything close to the weight of a skyscraper?

She has matched strength with Wonder Woman.

Wonder Woman has helped move the moon.

One plus one equals...



You're just not paying attention at all to "she's not a Tigra clone, she's a threat to top tiers," are you?

Getting giant is a lousy strategy- at least Tyrant is offering better suggestions.





Slower but not weaker, and he hit Superman fairly fast and hard. Cheetah has beaten Wonder Woman in similar circumstances.



Levitating can be fought with super leaping, but all she has against a barrier is her claws and strength. Blasts, she's gotta dodge or soak.

If Apoc tries to go to the distance game and fights smart, he can definitely win, but Barbara will try and hit him hard and fast and severely injure him before he starts pulling out the stops *and* if he fights cautiously and doesn't risk melee.

It really depends on the strategy he picks.

Originally posted by Q99
You've got it.




Cheetah's also class 100+. Cheetah's power was used to *take down Superman* once.


That said, Apoc does have stuff like teleportation and energy blasts, so he could try the range game.


http://i42.tinypic.com/iejh4x.jpg
http://i44.tinypic.com/2eqdrw2.jpg


-Female Cheetah is this, but faster.




The thing is, she has like a dozen herald class fights, and two-three streetlevel ones.

It's not high-balling if it's the norm. She's a deific champion and regular opponent of a top-tier.



Note that in that very fight, Wonder Woman couldn't hit her in an enclosed area and was being sliced apart, and she was not hit by it, WW just grabbed her while she was avoiding it/temporarily off her feat. Diana used the blast as a tactical tool to direct her movements but she was neither hit nor hurt.


Don't misrepresent, she showed very high speed in that fight, and it was an indoor fight even. Originally posted by TheTyrant
But she can't grow in size and be even stronger. Apocalypse at regular size put She-Hulk in a choke hold with ONE ARM!




Either a low showing for Superman or high showing for Sebastian. That's exactly what I'm talking about. She normally doesn't win against Wonder Woman, so how is it that all of a sudden a weaker version of Cheetah manages to stomp Superman who happens to be stronger than Wonder Woman?




I'm not sure about this one. Let me think about it and do a bit of research.




My bad

But what is Barb gonna do once Apoc starts to levitate? How is she gonna breach his barrier? How is she gonna resist his blasts? Matter manipulation?

Originally posted by Q99
She has matched strength with Wonder Woman.

Wonder Woman has helped move the moon.

One plus one equals...

I love the abc logic.

Batman has shaken up Darkseid and Grundy with his attacks...guess his attacks are not CL100 also huh?

Originally posted by Starscream M
I love the abc logic.

Batman has shaken up Darkseid and Grundy with his attacks...guess his attacks are not CL100 also huh?

By "shaken up," do you mean, "tug of war"? Because I don't think Batman's ever done that, but Cheetah has. Heck, I showed you a scan of her holding back Donna Troy who's class 100 too, if less so than WW.

Superman compare the strength of punches, not claws mind you, punches, from maleCheetah to Captain Marvel's.

We have a lot of instances establishing her strength level. Demonstrated.


"That's ABC logic" is normally brought up to indicate, 'just because A beats B and B beats C, doesn't mean A beats C, because there's other factors involved, knowing why A, B, and C interact how they do is important.'

But we're talking strength here. If A beats B in weightlifting, and B beats C, A will beat C as well, because we're talking a single objective stat. The same applies to speed.

"Just because Cheetah can take out Superman or Wonder Woman, doesn't mean she's well suited to taking out Apoc, he's got an entirely different power set!" is a reasonable argument that can be further examined, Apoc does fight a lot different. "Just because Cheetah has matched up in strength against class 100s as shown multiple times, doesn't mean she's got class 100 strength!" is a nonsensical argument.

Originally posted by Q99
No, she'll move out of the way of the attack, then try to rip up his heals at superspeed/pull his feet out from under him, unbalancing him and make him fall, then let's say... next move would be to slice across his throat when he falls, or goes for the eyes.... or have a plan of attack of running up him and going for the eyes to begin with. That sounds like a course for her.


The 'turn giant' thing actually isn't all that good of a move by Apoc because it makes him so much less agile. Probably why he doesn't do it in more fights, and in this case he'll never hit her physically at that size.

Energy blasts are a better choice, they're faster.

Apocalypse is more than just a tougher Giant Man, and turning giant doesn't help all that much.

Apoc would easily heal from Cheetah's claws

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/apocstab.png
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/apocstab2.png

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/apocregernate.png

I don't think Cheetah can even hurt him. Cyclop's full power blast is nothing to him:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/powers6.png

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/powers5.png

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/apocnoeffect.png

What is she gonna do against telekenisis? http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/palacerise.png

Can she resist telepathy?
http://static.mojefotke.si/1ddaf62cdef62ccb2b33fc87e80c52a32887b5f7.JPG

Apoc has been curbstomped by almost everyone at this point... provided they have energy manipulation or telekinesis. In fact, the ONLY area where he does seem to have consistently high-level feats is in melee: so far as I know, he has never had a problem with either speedsters (quicksilver, Ikaris) or brawlers. Unless Cheetah has a bunch of BFR feats I don't know about, she is going to lose this.

that isn't cyclops' full power blast.

Originally posted by Simbon
Apoc has been curbstomped by almost everyone at this point... provided they have energy manipulation or telekinesis. In fact, the ONLY area where he does seem to have consistently high-level feats is in melee: so far as I know, he has never had a problem with either speedsters (quicksilver, Ikaris) or brawlers. Unless Cheetah has a bunch of BFR feats I don't know about, she is going to lose this.

He has never been defeated one on one while at full power

Originally posted by -Pr-
that isn't cyclops' full power blast.

It's not the "GET OFF MA LAWN!!!111!!!" blast, but I think that Cyclops was putting in alot of energy to his optic blast.

Originally posted by Starscream M
I love the abc logic.

Batman has shaken up Darkseid and Grundy with his attacks...guess his attacks are not CL100 also huh?
In the Darkseid example Darkseid was nearly powerless.

Originally posted by galactusischere
It's not the "GET OFF MA LAWN!!!111!!!" blast, but I think that Cyclops was putting in alot of energy to his optic blast.

and thats fine. but he has a lot of energy in low-medium sized blasts too.

Originally posted by Simbon
Apoc has been curbstomped by almost everyone at this point... provided they have energy manipulation or telekinesis. In fact, the ONLY area where he does seem to have consistently high-level feats is in melee: so far as I know, he has never had a problem with either speedsters (quicksilver, Ikaris) or brawlers. Unless Cheetah has a bunch of BFR feats I don't know about, she is going to lose this.

When has Apocalypse been curbstomped?

Originally posted by galactusischere
He has never been defeated one on one while at full power

Really? I don't know as much about the character as you, but I thought he was at full-power in his fights against x-factor and the inhumans on the moon, his fight with Loki (admittedly, not a defeat, but he did seem to have the lower hand), and in his (non-cannon) fights with Magneto.

Originally posted by galactusischere
Apoc would easily heal from Cheetah's claws

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/apocstab.png
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/apocstab2.png

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/apocregernate.png


Exactly! No one in he herald or below range can physically harm Apocalypse. And yet people think WWH would stand a chance against him.

Originally posted by Simbon
Really? I don't know as much about the character as you, but I thought he was at full-power in his fights against x-factor and the inhumans on the moon, his fight with Loki (admittedly, not a defeat, but he did seem to have the lower hand), and in his (non-cannon) fights with Magneto.

Oh, and the Blackbolt incident in HoM.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Exactly! No one in he herald or below range can physically harm Apocalypse. And yet people think WWH would stand a chance against him.
facepalm

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Exactly! No one in he herald or below range can physically harm Apocalypse. And yet people think WWH would stand a chance against him.

No one in the herald range can physically harm him?

Originally posted by Simbon
Really? I don't know as much about the character as you, but I thought he was at full-power in his fights against x-factor and the inhumans on the moon, his fight with Loki (admittedly, not a defeat, but he did seem to have the lower hand), and in his (non-cannon) fights with Magneto.

He said one on one. The Inhumans + X-factor =/= one person

Apoc was also defeated by Stryfe and Bishop(two on one) and they were out to kill him right? Well, they failed and Apoclypse was on his death bed. After Apoc regained his power, this happened

http://g.imagehost.org/t/0409/Xforce16-015.jpg http://g.imagehost.org/t/0497/Xforce16-016.jpg

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
No one in the herald range can physically harm him?
Proof there's still lead paint in our houses.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
facepalm Originally posted by JakeTheBank
No one in the herald range can physically harm him?

T'is true. He can regenerate from everything....or nothing.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
No one in the herald range can physically harm him? Are you a parrot?

Originally posted by TheTyrant
T'is true. He can regenerate from everything....or nothing.
Based on what exactly? One scan of regeneration that isn't even above Captain Marvel or Black Adam's abilities?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Based on what exactly? One scan of regeneration that isn't even above Captain Marvel or Black Adam's abilities? have you seen the regeneretive powers of Mr. Sinister?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Based on what exactly? One scan of regeneration that isn't even above Captain Marvel or Black Adam's abilities?

One...
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3...95/apocstab.png
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3...5/apocstab2.png

Two....
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3...ocregernate.png

Originally posted by TheTyrant
He said one on one. The Inhumans + X-factor =/= one person

Apoc was also defeated by Stryfe and Bishop(two on one) and they were out to kill him right? Well, they failed and Apoclypse was on his death bed. After Apoc regained his power, this happened
http://g.imagehost.org/t/0409/Xforce16-015.jpg http://g.imagehost.org/t/0497/Xforce16-016.jpg

Ah, missed the one-on-one part. Still, he has been beaten so many times in a weakened state, and in other universes, that it has rubbed off on the non-weakened mainstream version. He also has this problem in that writers tend to show off his versatility (which is admittedly pretty impressive) rather than his power: he has, I think, maybe half a dozen feats which are genuinely impressive, a sh*t-ton of minor versatility feats, about an equal number of "Feats" where you can't tell what's going on on-panel, and his oft-mentioned losses. Don't get all upset though man, I actually think he wins this one.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
One...
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3...95/apocstab.png
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3...5/apocstab2.png

Two....
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3...ocregernate.png
Your broken links convinced me.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Your broken links convinced me.

HIS broken link. You have already seen the scan though. Apocalypse regenerates from goo.

edit.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
HIS broken link. You have already seen the scan though. Apocalypse regenerates from goo.
Which really doesn't equate to him being unkillable by anyone in Herald or below. Regenerating from goo doesn't save him from a Black Hole created by Surfer after all.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
HIS broken link. You have already seen the scan though. Apocalypse regenerates from goo.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/apocstab.png
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/apocstab2.png

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/apocregernate.png


They work...what the hell are you guys talking about?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Which really doesn't equate to him being unkillable by anyone in Herald or below. Regenerating from goo doesn't save him from a Black Hole created by Surfer after all.

I said physically
As in punches or kicks

Originally posted by Starscream M
Are you a parrot?

What? I was asking for a clarification on his part. Thanks.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
T'is true. He can regenerate from everything....or nothing.

So herald class physical blows from people like Marvel, Diana, Thor, Superman, etc, won't phase Apoc?

Apoc

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
So herald class physical blows from people like Marvel, Diana, Thor, Superman, etc, won't phase Apoc? cheetah is not thor, superman, or diana.

Originally posted by Starscream M
cheetah is not thor, superman, or diana.

Did I say that?

Answer: No.

Tyrant went out on a limb - an unstable and shaky limb - and stated:

"No one in the herald or below range can physically harm Apocalypse."

Thor, Superman, Diana, Marvel, etc, are all in the herald range. See where I'm going with this?

Cheetah is in the lower spectrum of the herald range herself. All I'm asking for is a more well thought out and better stated argument than "No herald can physically damage Apoc" which is bullshit anyway.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
See where I'm going with this?

yes...you're going off-topic.

Originally posted by Starscream M
yes...you're going off-topic.
Oh Bruce, you really shouldn't throw stones at the walls of your glass house.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Oh Bruce, you really shouldn't throw stones at the walls of your glass house. um what? you don't see me going off topic.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
So herald class physical blows from people like Marvel, Diana, Thor, Superman, etc, won't phase Apoc?

He would regenerate. And how would you physically hurt a being that can turn malleable?

Originally posted by Starscream M
yes...you're going off-topic.

No, it's exactly on topic, Starscream.

Trying to determine whether or not Apoc can truly not be physically damaged by herald class and below characters actually decides how this thread continues. A statement of these magnitude is very much on topic when it comes to what can and can't hurt him.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
No, it's exactly on topic, Starscream.

Trying to determine whether or not Apoc can truly not be physically damaged by herald class and below characters actually decides how this thread continues. A statement of these magnitude is very much on topic when it comes to what can and can't hurt him. but you have to prove first that cheetah can be classified as herald first before we really discuss apoc's dealings with heralds

I don't think cheetah qualifies for herald, or at least her average showings don't put her there

I agree, how vulnerable Apoc is to physical damage (that is, how well he can heal it) matters a lot, since that's what she's got.

Originally posted by Starscream M
but you have to prove first that cheetah can be classified as herald first before we really discuss apoc's dealings with heralds

I don't think cheetah qualifies for herald, or at least her average showings don't put her there

I posted over a half-dozen pics against a wide variety of foes as evidence, plus showed scans that clearly contradicted the few low-end PIS ones.


So yea, we've gotten that proving well out of the way.

Cheetah is good no doubt, but how is she going to hurt Apoc? He can become malleable and can regenerate from goo.

Originally posted by SuperMan103
inspired by the hulk vs cheetah thread. how does this turn out? both are bloodlusted and out for the kill. he grows big and does this:

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/1675/xfactorforever030018.jpg

then goes intangible

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Cheetah is good no doubt, but how is she going to hurt Apoc? He can become malleable and can regenerate from goo.

Yea, I'll concede Apoc wins because there really isn't much claws can do against goo.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
he grows big and does this:

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/1675/xfactorforever030018.jpg

then goes intangible

uhuh

http://i46.tinypic.com/25874tw.jpg

Is that real?

Great that we all agree on Apocalypse winning.

Also, how resistent is Cheetah to telepathy?

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Great that we all agree on Apocalypse winning.

Also, how resistent is Cheetah to telepathy? If Cheetah fought Like a Speedster and Used Blunt force trauma combined with her speed and strength, she would win, but since she is going to just slice and dice, she isn't winning any matches in my opinion.

Originally posted by TheTyrant

Also, how resistent is Cheetah to telepathy?

Like a lot of gods, moderately.

I think she lost her Zoom upgrade. In WW 214, Flash stole her speed.

I think being turned to goo counts as a defeat since there's no indication how long it takes for him to regenerate. It could take hours based on those scans.
Originally posted by TheTyrant
Great that we all agree on Apocalypse winning.

Also, how resistent is Cheetah to telepathy?
How's Apoc's telepathy?

Oh that's right, near-to-nonexistent. vin

Poccy has TP immunity unless someone has a direct way in.

His TP is lower level.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I think being turned to goo counts as a defeat since there's no indication how long it takes for him to regenerate. vin wait, so cheetah has heat vision now?

Originally posted by Starscream M
wait, so cheetah has heat vision now?
No but she can scratch and slash him to goo.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I think being turned to goo counts as a defeat since there's no indication how long it takes for him to regenerate. It could take hours based on those scans.

How's Apoc's telepathy?

Oh that's right, near-to-nonexistent. vin

http://static.mojefotke.si/1ddaf62cdef62ccb2b33fc87e80c52a32887b5f7.JPG

He does have telepathy. High level telepathy infact.

Originally posted by lightyeargee
If Cheetah fought Like a Speedster and Used Blunt force trauma combined with her speed and strength, she would win, but since she is going to just slice and dice, she isn't winning any matches in my opinion.

She ain't getting a majority even if she fought Like a speedster and used blunt force trauma attacks. There is nothing she can do.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
She ain't getting a majority even if she fought Like a speedster and used blunt force trauma attacks. There is nothing she can do. Namor is far less than a speedster.Any Speedster worth their salt would pummel Apoc into goo.Cheetah is faster than WonderWoman. So fast that Wondy could not defende herself with Bracers. Wondy has blocked beams from the God of speed before so I an assume Cheetah is near flash lvl speed. If Cheetah fought like a speedster she would imp Apoc.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
No but she can scratch and slash him to goo. uh, how could you scratch or slash someone into goo?

that makes no sense

Originally posted by lightyeargee
Namor is far less than a speedster.Any Speedster worth their salt would pummel Apoc into goo.Cheetah is faster than WonderWoman. So fast that Wondy could not defende herself with Bracers. Wondy has blocked beams from the God of speed before so I an assume Cheetah is near flash lvl speed. If Cheetah fought like a speedster she would imp Apoc.

You mean when Apocalypse was caught off-guard by Namor?
Makarri and Quicksilver would beg to disagree. Apoc would teleport behind her and punch her head off. Or you know, TK her into orbit. Or mindrape. Choose your poison.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
You mean when Apocalypse was caught off-guard by Namor?
Makarri and Quicksilver would beg to disagree. Apoc would teleport behind her and punch her head off. Or you know, TK her into orbit. Or mindrape. Choose your poison. I AM IN UTTER SHOCK that you would compare Quicksilver to Cheetah. That in and of itself tells me you are grasping. I am not too familiar with Makkari's Battle feats or any powerful foes he has beaten. I haven't seen Apoc mind rape any Gods. And Apoc is not as strong as Wonder Woman so I don't see him Punching anyone's head off.

Originally posted by lightyeargee
I AM IN UTTER SHOCK that you would compare Quicksilver to Cheetah. That in and of itself tells me you are grasping. I am not too familiar with Makkari's Battle feats or any powerful foes he has beaten. I haven't seen Apoc mind rape any Gods. And Apoc is not as strong as Wonder Woman so I don't see him Punching anyone's head off.

Quicksilver is faster than Cheetah as of now. Don't be in shock.
Makarri is alot faster than WW, both in travel speed and combat.
Apoc mind raped Xavier. That should suffice.
Apocalypse is stronger than WW. At regular size he can easily do this:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/apochulk4.png
Now add size manipulation and telekenisis(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/palacerise.png) to that and it's over.

Cheetah is faster than WW. And I don't know about Quickdilver or Makkari being faster than WW in combat speed. Wonder Woman is faster than Superman in Combat speed and he would ***** Makkari and Quicksilver. Cheetah is faster than them all. She's a true DC speedster. I didn't see anything impressive in those scans. Apoc doesn't size manipulate for the hell of it. How is he going to hit her if he's way bigger than her? It would be like someone trying to hit the Atom with Super Speed. Impossible.

what if i add giganta to cheetah's team? would that make it fair?

Originally posted by lightyeargee
Cheetah is faster than WW. And I don't know about Quickdilver or Makkari being faster than WW in combat speed. Wonder Woman is faster than Superman in Combat speed and he would ***** Makkari and Quicksilver. Cheetah is faster than them all. She's a true DC speedster. I didn't see anything impressive in those scans. Apoc doesn't size manipulate for the hell of it. How is he going to hit her if he's way bigger than her? It would be like someone trying to hit the Atom with Super Speed. Impossible.

Makarri is faster than Superman in combat
Apocalypse can teleport. Her speed ain't doing crap if Apoc decides to teleport high up and start blasting her. Or simply mind rape her. Or matter manipulate her. When Apocalypse grows in size...his strength also grows. He can thunder clap her into orbit.

Originally posted by SuperMan103
what if i add giganta to cheetah's team? would that make it fair?

Not at all. Giganta is only a brute.

She was about to be mindraped by Grodd in FC: Resist. I don't think she would be able to resist Apocalypse if the scan that Tyrant posted is legit.

Originally posted by galactusischere
She was about to be mindraped by Grodd in FC: Resist. I don't think she would be able to resist Apocalypse if the scan that Tyrant posted is legit. About to? As in didn't happen?

Originally posted by galactusischere
She was about to be mindraped by Grodd in FC: Resist. I don't think she would be able to resist Apocalypse if the scan that Tyrant posted is legit.
That's a hypothetical and says nothing for Cheetah's TP immunity or lack thereof.

Its not legit. There's no evidence for it being anything other than an energy blast that hit Xavier.

Originally posted by lightyeargee
About to? As in didn't happen?
Originally posted by Omega Vision
That's a hypothetical and says nothing for Cheetah's TP immunity or lack thereof.

Its not legit. There's no evidence for it being anything other than an energy blast that hit Xavier.

She was obviously vulnerable to Grodd's TP

http://s83.photobucket.com/albums/j289/ThreshholdLurker/?action=view&current=FCResistPage020.jpg

Originally posted by galactusischere
She was obviously vulnerable to Grodd's TP

http://s83.photobucket.com/albums/j289/ThreshholdLurker/?action=view&current=FCResistPage020.jpg
Grodd is one of DC's greatest TP villains with way more feats than Apoc.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
That's a hypothetical and says nothing for Cheetah's TP immunity or lack thereof.

Its not legit. There's no evidence for it being anything other than an energy blast that hit Xavier.

How did you conclude that it was an energy blast? It is obviously a psi blast. Apocalypse can and has read minds, has communicated with people from miles away, and has resisted Cerebro/cerebra. It all adds up to Apoc having telepathy. Hell, even Mr Sinister who is basically a weaker version of Apoc has demonstrated his telepathy(which is on par with Xavier and far above Grodd)

Not that it matters. Cheetah would not be able to resist Apocalypse's telekinesis nor energy blasts nor matter manipulation.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
How did you conclude that it was an energy blast? It is obviously a psi blast. Apocalypse can and has read minds, has communicated with people from miles away, and has resisted Cerebro/cerebra. It all adds up to Apoc having telepathy. Hell, even Mr Sinister who is basically a weaker version of Apoc has demonstrated his telepathy(which is on par with Xavier and far above Grodd)

Not that it matters. Cheetah would not be able to resist Apocalypse's telekinesis nor energy blasts nor matter manipulation.
Its not "obviously" anything. Its up for debate as to what it is and though it could be interpreted as such its just as likely an energy blast. In any case one instance doesn't justify giving Apoc Grodd level TP.

Apoc doesn't have offensive matter manipulation and his TK isn't really that impressive.

He lifted a palace that was buried under desert sand for centuries with a thought without any struggle whatsoever. How is that not impressive?

Did you miss how he turned Ozymandias into stone? He does the same thing to Cheetah....and that was RoA Poccy who hadn't even gained 90% of his powers.

Apocalypse > Mr Sinister in every way
Mr Sinister > Grodd in telepathy
Grodd's telepathy can affect Cheetah...THUS Apocalypse would be able to mindrape her.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Mr Sinister > Grodd in telepathy

based on?

Yeah, Sinister isn't remarkable at all.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Grodd is one of DC's greatest TP villains with way more feats than Apoc.

Also, wasn't he trying to use the anti-life equation on them? Hence the big 'SUBMIT'?

That's a bit different than normal.

Originally posted by Konton
Yeah, Sinister isn't remarkable at all.

oh, that's not what i'm saying. Sinister has some very nice feats. Just wondering what makes him think he's above Grodd.

Originally posted by Q99
Also, wasn't he trying to use the anti-life equation on them? Hence the big 'SUBMIT'?

That's a bit different than normal.
Almost certainly. You might postulate that he was attempting to telepathically introduce the ALE, hence Cheetah's fear. If that's the case then the fact Grodd was unsuccessful demonstrates Cheetah's ability to block out his invading mind somewhat.

Originally posted by -Pr-
based on?

Based on how he mindraped X-Man and a bunch of other mutants in Onslaught saga.

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll198/evilash1990/Xmenapocstryfe.png

Originally posted by -Pr-
based on? off the top, sinister has mindblasted x-force and nate grey simultaneously in one shot.

He's also been punked by Emma.

Oh, not this shit again.

Mr Sinister actually has some telepathic feats.

Apocalypse has next to none. That one scan Tyrant posted has been debunked before.

Also I would have thought EC posting this:

http://www.formspring.me/TomBrevoort

Q: Is Apocalypse a telepath? I know he's a telekinetic but during the Onslaught Saga he needed Cable to access the astral plane? During X-Factor he needed Baby Cable and a machine. Just wondering.

A: I don't think we've ever indicated that Apocalypse is a telepath.

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/4834/32256504.jpg

Would have finally got you to give up on the ridiculous idea that Apocalypse is some uber telepath.

He isn't even a telepath.

The matter manipulation bullshit has also been debunked. He didn't turn Ozymandias to stone, Rama-Tut's technology - the knowledge contained within - did.

"The inhuman fury behind the boy's blow sends the General flying into Rama-Tut's unfathomably technology -- unleashing the hidden knowledge of millenia to come -- to deposit it into a receptacle too small and uncomprehending to contain it -- Ozymandias' blistering synapses."

This is what results in Ozymandias' transformation.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
The matter manipulation bullshit has also been debunked. He didn't turn Ozymandias to stone, Rama-Tut's technology - the knowledge contained within - did.

"The inhuman fury behind the boy's blow sends the General flying into Rama-Tut's unfathomably technology -- unleashing the hidden knowledge of millenia to come -- to deposit it into a receptacle too small and uncomprehending to contain it -- Ozymandias' blistering synapses."

This is what results in Ozymandias' transformation.
While you're at it isn't there some context behind Apoc's regeneration feat? I remember reading somewhere that he needs a vat of human organs to regenerate from.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
While you're at it isn't there some context behind Apoc's regeneration feat? I remember reading somewhere that he needs a vat of human organs to regenerate from. I can't remember.

I only really looked into the telepathy because silly people kept on proclaiming Apocalypse to have telepathy surpassing Xavier.

And then listing other "exotic powers" which were either misinterpretations, complete BS or one-off instances, like saying Apocalypse has better matter manipulation than Sersi through misinterpreting Rise of Apocalypse #4.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I can't remember.

I only really looked into the telepathy because silly people kept on proclaiming Apocalypse to have telepathy surpassing Xavier.

And then listing other "exotic powers" which were either misinterpretations, complete BS or one-off instances, like saying Apocalypse has better matter manipulation than Sersi through misinterpreting Rise of Apocalypse #4.
From my understanding after his original body was destroyed Apoc lost the ability to regenerate from any injury and now requires tech to heal from critical injuries.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
From my understanding after his original body was destroyed Apoc lost the ability to regenerate from any injury and now requires tech to heal from critical injuries. IIRC he requires technology to sustain his longevity.

But I can't recall the limitations of his on-the-fly regen. I don't recall him being as T-1000 as Mr Sinister though.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
IIRC he requires technology to sustain his longevity.

But I can't recall the limitations of his on-the-fly regen. I don't recall him being as T-1000 as Mr Sinister though.

IIRC he can accomplish "full" regeneration but it requires that a drop of his blood be administered to a full vat of human organs. So not really a valid battle tactic unless Cheetah is willing to wait for him.

Tyrant is obviously misrepresenting Apoc's abilities in a lot of ways, but I think one point on which I think he is right is that we can't assume that speed (short of zoom levels) is going to be effective against him. Even if the speedsters he's beaten aren't as fast as Cheetah, he's done enough that it would be foolish to assume that she just kills him with speed; for instance, if we saw a character with energy absorbing abilities absorb blasts from cyclops, holocaust and magneto, would we just assume, in a forum match between this character and surfer, that "surfer is just so much more powerful than those other characters that he won't be able to absorb it"? When it comes to the most extreme levels (speed: zoom, strength: PC Valdius, energy: Galactus), I understand, but in this case I think we should give Apoc the benefit of the doubt.

Originally posted by Simbon
Tyrant is obviously misrepresenting Apoc's abilities in a lot of ways, but I think one point on which I think he is right is that we can't assume that speed (short of zoom levels) is going to be effective against him. Even if the speedsters he's beaten aren't as fast as Cheetah, he's done enough that it would be foolish to assume that she just kills him with speed; for instance, if we saw a character with energy absorbing abilities absorb blasts from cyclops, holocaust and magneto, would we just assume, in a forum match between this character and surfer, that "surfer is just so much more powerful than those other characters that he won't be able to absorb it"? When it comes to the most extreme levels (speed: zoom, strength: PC Valdius, energy: Galactus), I understand, but in this case I think we should give Apoc the benefit of the doubt.
Never give anyone "the benefit of the doubt"

Unless he has feats proving he has the speed to go toe to toe with her we can't project those stats onto him.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Oh, not this shit again.

Mr Sinister actually has some telepathic feats.

Apocalypse has next to none. That one scan Tyrant posted has been debunked before.

Also I would have thought EC posting this:

http://www.formspring.me/TomBrevoort

Q: Is Apocalypse a telepath? I know he's a telekinetic but during the Onslaught Saga he needed Cable to access the astral plane? During X-Factor he needed Baby Cable and a machine. Just wondering.

A: I don't think we've ever indicated that Apocalypse is a telepath.

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/4834/32256504.jpg

Would have finally got you to give up on the ridiculous idea that Apocalypse is some uber telepath.

He isn't even a telepath.

How was this addressed again? It was portrayed as if Apoc psi bolted Xavier.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
The matter manipulation bullshit has also been debunked. He didn't turn Ozymandias to stone, Rama-Tut's technology - the knowledge contained within - did.

"The inhuman fury behind the boy's blow sends the General flying into Rama-Tut's unfathomably technology -- unleashing the hidden knowledge of millenia to come -- to deposit it into a receptacle too small and uncomprehending to contain it -- Ozymandias' blistering synapses."

This is what results in Ozymandias' transformation.

You tell me how Apocalypse managed to work that thing then. How does a primitive mutant manage to work Kang's technology? But it doesn't matter really. The mantis creature one was a better display of matter manip. The creature was telling Exodus what Apocalypse was telling him before, so yea. It was Apocalypse's doing.

Originally posted by Simbon
Tyrant is obviously misrepresenting Apoc's abilities in a lot of ways, but I think one point on which I think he is right is that we can't assume that speed (short of zoom levels) is going to be effective against him. Even if the speedsters he's beaten aren't as fast as Cheetah, he's done enough that it would be foolish to assume that she just kills him with speed; for instance, if we saw a character with energy absorbing abilities absorb blasts from cyclops, holocaust and magneto, would we just assume, in a forum match between this character and surfer, that "surfer is just so much more powerful than those other characters that he won't be able to absorb it"? When it comes to the most extreme levels (speed: zoom, strength: PC Valdius, energy: Galactus), I understand, but in this case I think we should give Apoc the benefit of the doubt.

Cheetah is faster than Quicksilver in combat? Ok, I want consistent scans to prove this.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Cheetah is faster than Quicksilver in combat? Ok, I want consistent scans to prove this.
You mean being as fast as Wonder Woman and fighting Flash didn't prove this to you?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
You mean being as fast as Wonder Woman and fighting Flash didn't prove this to you?

Flash stole her speed at the end of Wonder Woman 214. Wonder Woman is consistently faster than Quicksilver in combat? Quicksilver constantly blitzes his opponents in combat, does Wonder Woman do those in combat on a consistent basis? I thought not.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Flash stole her speed at the end of Wonder Woman 214. Wonder Woman is consistently faster than Quicksilver in combat? Quicksilver constantly blitzes his opponents in combat, does Wonder Woman do those in combat on a consistent basis? I thought not.
Just because Wonder Woman doesn't blitz every person she fights doesn't mean she lacks the ability.

Come now, that's asinine even by your standards.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Just because Wonder Woman doesn't blitz every person she fights doesn't mean she lacks the ability.

Come now, that's asinine even by your standards.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Cheetah is faster than Quicksilver in combat? Ok, I want consistent scans to prove this.

You replied to my post. And I said I want consistent scans of Cheetah blitzing. You have to provide the proof if you're going to reply to my post.

As I have said before, teleportation negates her speed even if it is truly superior to Poccy's(which isn't).

Originally posted by TheTyrant
You replied to my post. And I said I want consistent scans of Cheetah blitzing. You have to provide the proof if you're going to reply to my post.

As I have said before, teleportation negates her speed even if it is truly superior to Poccy's(which isn't).
And I want consistent scans of Apoc teleporting in combat. One instance doesn't make a reliable forum tactic.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
And I want consistent scans of Apoc teleporting in combat. One instance doesn't make a reliable forum tactic.

I'm gonna post them later when I get back.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
While you're at it isn't there some context behind Apoc's regeneration feat? I remember reading somewhere that he needs a vat of human organs to regenerate from.

The context is that he was severely weakened.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
How was this addressed again? It was portrayed as if Apoc psi bolted Xavier.



You tell me how Apocalypse managed to work that thing then. How does a primitive mutant manage to work Kang's technology? But it doesn't matter really. The mantis creature one was a better display of matter manip. The creature was telling Exodus what Apocalypse was telling him before, so yea. It was Apocalypse's doing. It's an energy blast, telepathy doesn't go zzrak. Not telepathy.

He didn't need to work anything, Ozymandias was thrown into the machinery. Not matter manipulation.

The Scarab Beast rises out of the sand. Not matter manipulation.

So in summary,
Regarding telepathy:
1. Essentially no telepathic feats.
2. Unable to access the Astral Plane.
3. Not listed as a power in OHOTMU. (Magneto's limited telepathy is listed in his abilities)
4. Marvel Editor saying they've never indicated Apocalypse is a telepath.

Regarding matter manipulation: (lol)
1. No feats.
2. Not listed as a power in OHOTMU.
3. Lol.

Regarding this fight.
1. Comparing Quicksilver to Wonder Woman/Cheetah/Flash. Lol.

Come on now. There is no way that Cheetah can win, regardless of Apoc's questionable matter manip/TP powers.

Originally posted by galactusischere
Come on now. There is no way that Cheetah can win, regardless of Apoc's questionable matter manip/TP powers. Jay Garrick, who is slower and weaker than cheetah was able to use speed to combat Black Adam effectively. And BA beats Apoc soundly. So why can't a class 100, regenerating, magical claws that can slice through almost anything, that happen to also induce magical weakening poisons, and just happens to be so fast that not even WW's light speed reflexes could block her, defeat Apoc?

Originally posted by lightyeargee
Jay Garrick, who is slower and weaker than cheetah was able to use speed to combat Black Adam effectively. And BA beats Apoc soundly. So why can't a class 100, regenerating, magical claws that can slice through almost anything, that happen to also induce magical weakening poisons, and just happens to be so fast that not even WW's light speed reflexes could block her, defeat Apoc?

So? It's not like BA would utterly stomp Apoc(I would give him a 7-8/10 agaisnt Poccy). And as I said before, we should go by consistent feats. If Jay on a regular basis gets to fight and actually give BA trouble, then Teth isn't all that. Apocalypse can regenerate from goo and has a failry decent HF, how does Cheetah's magical claws hurt him?
Diana has FTL reflexes? I only know of one instance when she has reacted at FTL(the shattered gods).

As Tyrant said before, Flash did steal the extra speed which she had gained in 214.

IMO, Apoc would levitate and start blasting Cheetah from range. I can't see Cheetah taking any wins over him. She's only got speed on Apoxy lips, nothing else.

Edit- When did Apocalypse battle with Makarri? Was in in Eternals vol 4?

Originally posted by galactusischere
So? It's not like BA would utterly stomp Apoc(I would give him a 7-8/10 agaisnt Poccy). And as I said before, we should go by consistent feats. If Jay on a regular basis gets to fight and actually give BA trouble, then Teth isn't all that. Apocalypse can regenerate from goo and has a failry decent HF, how does Cheetah's magical claws hurt him?
Diana has FTL reflexes? I only know of one instance when she has reacted at FTL(the shattered gods).

As Tyrant said before, Flash did steal the extra speed which she had gained in 214.

IMO, Apoc would levitate and start blasting Cheetah from range. I can't see Cheetah taking any wins over him. She's only got speed on Apoxy lips, nothing else.

Edit- When did Apocalypse battle with Makarri? Was in in Eternals vol 4? She also blocked lightning with her braces

Originally posted by iceman24567
She also blocked lightning with her braces

Lightning is much slower than light though.

Originally posted by galactusischere
So? It's not like BA would utterly stomp Apoc(I would give him a 7-8/10 agaisnt Poccy). And as I said before, we should go by consistent feats. If Jay on a regular basis gets to fight and actually give BA trouble, then Teth isn't all that. Apocalypse can regenerate from goo and has a failry decent HF, how does Cheetah's magical claws hurt him?
Diana has FTL reflexes? I only know of one instance when she has reacted at FTL(the shattered gods).

As Tyrant said before, Flash did steal the extra speed which she had gained in 214.

IMO, Apoc would levitate and start blasting Cheetah from range. I can't see Cheetah taking any wins over him. She's only got speed on Apoxy lips, nothing else.

Edit- When did Apocalypse battle with Makarri? Was in in Eternals vol 4? No Flash didn't steal Cheetah's extra speed, He stole her speed period. It's a tactic he does all the time. Cheetah didn't get a power boost from Zoom she got a knowlege boost.


She(WW) has FTL shown when she fought Amazo, Amazo's Son, Superman, Martians, And Zoom. And Speed is killer. Apoc wont' be able to levitate before She's all over him. I think he wins but not with out a hell of a fight. And if it's out of then, She takes 4 of them.

Originally posted by galactusischere
Lightning is much slower than light though. Either way it proves her reflexes are ftl more so than Superman imo.

Originally posted by galactusischere
So? It's not like BA would utterly stomp Apoc(I would give him a 7-8/10 agaisnt Poccy). And as I said before, we should go by consistent feats. If Jay on a regular basis gets to fight and actually give BA trouble, then Teth isn't all that. Apocalypse can regenerate from goo and has a failry decent HF, how does Cheetah's magical claws hurt him?
Diana has FTL reflexes? I only know of one instance when she has reacted at FTL(the shattered gods).

As Tyrant said before, Flash did steal the extra speed which she had gained in 214.

IMO, Apoc would levitate and start blasting Cheetah from range. I can't see Cheetah taking any wins over him. She's only got speed on Apoxy lips, nothing else.

Edit- When did Apocalypse battle with Makarri? Was in in Eternals vol 4?

speed stealing is temporary, not permanent.

Originally posted by lightyeargee
No Flash didn't steal Cheetah's extra speed, He stole her speed period. It's a tactic he does all the time. Cheetah didn't get a power boost from Zoom she got a knowlege boost.


She(WW) has FTL shown when she fought Amazo, Amazo's Son, Superman, Martians, And Zoom. And Speed is killer. Apoc wont' be able to levitate before She's all over him. I think he wins but not with out a hell of a fight. And if it's out of then, She takes 4 of them.

She IIRC still was fast after she 'kissed' Flash. She kileld the original Cheetah to get her power boost and Zoom did tell her that he couldn't help, so IDK.

How is tying Amazo up before he can react FTL? She also sneaked up on him. Kid Amazo? She got utterly stomped by him. When has she fought Superman at FTL? She only got back from the sun after Superman hit her to it. By White Martians, do you mean Primaid? When did they fight at light speed? I don't really recall that fight for some reason. But I find it impossible for blind WW to actually tag Zoom. I have to look back on that one. Apoc isn't exactly slow either, and there is that nasty teleportation.

Originally posted by -Pr-
speed stealing is temporary, not permanent.

I haven't seen her fight at those speeds ever since.

Originally posted by galactusischere
I haven't seen her fight at those speeds ever since. You mean since she was too fast for Wonder Woman to block?

Originally posted by galactusischere
I haven't seen her fight at those speeds ever since. She blitzed the shit out of Wonder Woman like 4 months ago almost killed her too.

Originally posted by iceman24567
She blitzed the shit out of Wonder Woman like 4 months ago almost killed her too.

I remember that fight. But didn't she get hit by a bazuka?

Originally posted by galactusischere
She IIRC still was fast after she 'kissed' Flash. She kileld the original Cheetah to get her power boost and Zoom did tell her that he couldn't help, so IDK.

How is tying Amazo up before he can react FTL? She also sneaked up on him. Kid Amazo? She got utterly stomped by him. When has she fought Superman at FTL? She only got back from the sun after Superman hit her to it. By White Martians, do you mean Primaid? When did they fight at light speed? I don't really recall that fight for some reason. But I find it impossible for blind WW to actually tag Zoom. I have to look back on that one. Apoc isn't exactly slow either, and there is that nasty teleportation. Your interpretation of events precludes some bias against the female hero. Amazo had the speed of Superman, Wonder Woman and Flash. She not only tied him up before he could react, she tied him up before anyone else seen her move. Including Superman. Don't remember any sneaking. I remember Kid Amazo was tapping Flash's Speed when she got him in a choke hold. Also, I"m not talking about when they went to the sun, I'm talking about when Superman attacked her with his heat vision and was moving in for the kill. She deflected said attacks with one hand. And yes she tagged Zoom. Cheetah is still faster than Wonder Woman. She could blitz Apoc to dust if she fought like a true speedster instead of clawing all of the time.