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They fight in Boxville. It is a city inhabited by sentient boxes who have mastered warp speed travel using only cardboard. On the planet Boxtrot.

All out.

Who win?

really lol

A DBZ thread hasn't been done in a while.
http://i50.tinypic.com/2ihxf5u.jpg

Anime Cell would win easily.
Manga Cell would lose.

retarded and wrong forum. Thor stomps.

1. Not allowed

2. Competent Thor solos DBU

Figured this could be reopened and pinned for a while.

Originally posted by Badabing
Figured this could be reopened and pinned for a while.

Perfect cell owns thor.SS2 vegeta could probably beat thor and cell you win like 8/10.

Originally posted by Black bolt z


Perfect cell owns thor.SS2 vegeta could probably beat thor and cell you win like 8/10. Based on what?

SS2 Gohan beat Cell, btw.

SS2 > Cell

Originally posted by Mindset
Based on what?

SS2 Gohan beat Cell, btw.

SS2 > Cell Why was I....I was thinking that SS2 Vegeta lost to cell but SS2 gohan beat cell.Didn't make sense but thats what I remembered.Cell still wins.

Originally posted by Mindset
Based on what?

SS2 Gohan beat Cell, btw.

SS2 > Cell Not alone, Vegeta attacked him from behind and Goku was "helping/amping" him. It was still damn close.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Why was I....I was thinking that SS2 Vegeta lost to cell but SS2 gohan beat cell.Didn't make sense but thats what I remembered.Cell still wins. Vegeta and Trunks never got to SS2 when they fought Cell.

Based on what does Cell win?

Thor.

There is no way Cell can get around his energy soak... Or his shields.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
Not alone, Vegeta attacked him from behind and Goku was "helping/amping" him. It was still damn close. Gohan wasn't at full strength when he reached SS2.

SS2 > cell

Originally posted by Mindset
Vegeta and Trunks never got to SS2 when they fought Cell.

Based on what does Cell win? Being way faster.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Being way faster. Speed feats?

Originally posted by Galan007
Thor.

There is no way Cell can get around his energy soak... Or his shields.

More of the whole DBZ guys are faster and blitz Thor schtick?

I fail to see what awesome speed feats they have that render Thor unable to tag them or defend against them, especially when he can swing Mjolnir faster than light.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
More of the whole DBZ guys are faster and blitz Thor schtick?

I fail to see what awesome speed feats they have that render Thor unable to tag them or defend against them, especially when he can swing Mjolnir faster than light.
I recall Gotenks' flying across the world in a matter of seconds (all the way in the Buu saga when their powers were coming close to Maximum, I don't care about GT) being considered some uber speed feat that shocked Piccolo. Considering that Thor flew to the sun in Siege presumably within a matter of minutes or at most hours I'd say Thor is as fast or faster.

Pre-SSJ Goku could blitz casual bullet timers. How is he not faster than Thor again?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I recall Gotenks' flying across the world in a matter of seconds (all the way in the Buu saga when their powers were coming close to Maximum, I don't care about GT) being considered some uber speed feat that shocked Piccolo. Considering that Thor flew to the sun in Siege presumably within a matter of minutes or at most hours I'd say Thor is as fast or faster. It was 30 minutes for a couple times around the world iirc.

Ask Endless Mike, he knows for sure.

It was 20-ish.

The reason why speed and speed alone doesn't mean that Thor is screwed is because of Thor's own speed and reaction times, the ability to spin Mjolnir at speeds greater than light, the ability to omniblast, forcefields, etc. He literally is catered to fight DBZ characters and win for the purposes of these cross over fights. Their main draws are their massive energy attacks, attacks Thor can absorb/redirect back at them or even tank if he needed to. Their stamina is also suspect here as Thor can fight without tapping into his own energy and let the environment or even his opponent provide that energy.

Cell's only real shot here is his ability to regen, and even then, Thor can just blast him into the Sun or completely destroy him with his power output.

Originally posted by Mindset
It was 30 minutes for a couple times around the world iirc.

Ask Endless Mike, he knows for sure. Originally posted by TheTyrant
It was 20-ish.
In either case traveling to the sun and back is like traveling on the Earth's equator for more than 7400 round tours.

Difference between flight speed and combat speed.

And what about Cell's combat speed suggest him overwhelming Thor/ moving too fast for Thor to react?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
The reason why speed and speed alone doesn't mean that Thor is screwed is because of Thor's own speed and reaction times, the ability to spin Mjolnir at speeds greater than light, the ability to omniblast, forcefields, etc. He literally is catered to fight DBZ characters and win for the purposes of these cross over fights. Their main draws are their massive energy attacks, attacks Thor can absorb/redirect back at them or even tank if he needed to. Their stamina is also suspect here as Thor can fight without tapping into his own energy and let the environment or even his opponent provide that energy.

Cell's only real shot here is his ability to regen, and even then, Thor can just blast him into the Sun or completely destroy him with his power output.

How does spinning his hammer FTL help him react to Cell's speedblitz? Super Perfect Cell was even more powerful than Ultimate Super Saiyan Jin 2 Gohan who was more powerful than Full Power SSJ Goku who could easily kill a planet buster with one punch.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
How does spinning his hammer FTL help him react to Cell's speedblitz? Super Perfect Cell was even more powerful than Ultimate Super Saiyan Jin 2 Gohan who was more powerful than Full Power SSJ Goku who could easily kill a planet buster with one punch.
The ABCs of DBZ.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
How does spinning his hammer FTL help him react to Cell's speedblitz? Super Perfect Cell was even more powerful than Ultimate Super Saiyan Jin 2 Gohan who was more powerful than Full Power SSJ Goku who could easily kill a planet buster with one punch.

ABC Logic much?

And Thor spinning his hammer FTL, means he can spin in it a defensive arc or erect a force field or tag someone who decides to attempt to breach through his defenses.

Seriously, all I'm hearing is "Random DBZ character is faster and stronger" than Thor with no real proof one way or the other. Meanwhile, people siding with Thor are literally telling you how and why Thor wins.

What, does Thor need to ascend to Super Asgardian here or something?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
The ABCs of DBZ. Well that's the prob with DBZ cause it is based on this "system".

Originally posted by TheTyrant
How does spinning his hammer FTL help him react to Cell's speedblitz? Super Perfect Cell was even more powerful than Ultimate Super Saiyan Jin 2 Gohan who was more powerful than Full Power SSJ Goku who could easily kill a planet buster with one punch. SS2 Gohan was weakened, he was not a full power.

What planet buster did Goku kill with a punch?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
ABC Logic much?

And Thor spinning his hammer FTL, means he can spin in it a defensive arc or erect a force field or tag someone who decides to attempt to breach through his defenses.

Seriously, all I'm hearing is "Random DBZ character is faster and stronger" than Thor with no real proof one way or the other. Meanwhile, people siding with Thor are literally telling you how and why Thor wins.

What, does Thor need to ascend to Super Asgardian here or something?

That's because DBZ is an anime that relied on powerscalling. Without power scaling, ABC logic, and fillers, there are barely any feats for characters other than Gohan and Goku.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
That's because DBZ is an anime that relied on powerscalling. Without power scaling, ABC logic, and fillers, there are barely any feats for characters other than Gohan and Goku.

Ok.

And I'm telling you, being superfast (highly debatable they're faster than what Thor can react to based on Thor's feats) and superstrong on its own isn't enough to beat Thor. And by ABC logic, Thor has gotten the upper hand on Silver Surfer, who is beyond virtually everything in DBZ no contest.

@ Jake

His good speed feats start around 3:00

EpaBf70HGQk&feature=related
And these start around 4:30
_NEzLu_cPJw&NR=1

what's happening to the forum?

Originally posted by psycho gundam
what's happening to the forum? Quanation.

Do you guys understand the monumental leaps in speed, strength and power of the Dragonball characters?

Freeza in his weakest form effortlessly blew up Planet Vegeta. Pre-SSJ Vegeta was able to match that weakest form Freeza on-panel.

Weakest form Freeza was outclassed speed, strength and power-wise by bulky-form Freeza.

Bulky-form Freeza was outclassed speed, strength and power-wise by monster-form Freeza one further level.

Monster-form Freeza was outclassed speed, strength and power-wise by perfect-form Freeza one further level.

Perfect-form Freeza was outclassed speed, strength and power-wise by cyborg-form Freeza one further level.

Cyborg-form Freeza was utterly outclassed speed, strength and power-wise by normal SSJ-level Trunks.

Normal SSJ-level Trunks was utterly outclassed by post-training Super Trunks.

Super Trunks was utterly outclassed by perfect-form Cell.

You're talking more than a half dozen leaps in speed, strength and power from a legitimate planet-buster.

^

Owned.I thought I said that before but no one paid attention.

Thor blitzes Perfect Cell then "WHAT THE ****!?" stomps the entire DBZ Universe. Owned.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Thor blitzes Perfect Cell then "WHAT THE ****!?" stomps the entire DBZ Universe. Owned. jeez, you don't even pretend to be serious anymore, do ya?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Thor blitzes Perfect Cell then "WHAT THE ****!?" stomps the entire DBZ Universe. Owned. Wrong.

Originally posted by Starscream M
jeez, you don't even pretend to be serious anymore, do ya?

*Claps*

Amazing, you figured out I wasn't being serious. A regular Sherlock Holmes.

Can you figure what I was being in the above statement for bonus points?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus


Can you figure what I was being in the above statement for bonus points? an ass-clown? now where's my cookie?

Thor doesn't need any help to defeat perfect cell

Originally posted by Starscream M
an ass-clown? now where's my cookie? In his pants.

Originally posted by Starscream M
an ass-clown? now where's my cookie?

*Buzz*

Wrong answer.

But since I'm feeling generous, it's in my pants.

thor clocks cell while he does his prerequisite 10 min long power up yell. thor wins.

if this kinda thread is allowed, what was the point of the poll and all that jazz?

Originally posted by marwash22
if this kinda thread is allowed, what was the point of the poll and all that jazz? Bran made it.Every loves bran so bada unclosed it then pinned it.He said he thought it might be fun.

Cell TKs Thor into orbit and thus BFRing him for the winzie.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Cell TKs Thor into orbit and thus BFRing him for the winzie. not before thor turns cell into an ouroboros with his tail syringe

I was kidding
Thor has this.

Sorry, couldn't tell.

You can't really blame me though can you?

sneer

Thor > Vegeta > Cell...

Originally posted by marwash22
sneer

Thor > Vegeta > Cell...



SSJ 5137345455256 Vegeta >>> Ultimate Super Duper Perfect Cell >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thor sneer

Originally posted by TheTyrant
SSJ 5137345455256 Vegeta >>> Ultimate Super Duper Perfect Cell >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thor sneer sneer

Thordin (that's Thor and Odin fused) >>>>>>>>>> SSJ 5137345455256 Vegeta >>>>>>>>>> Ultimate Super Duper Perfect Cell

Didn't Gohan reach Super Saiyan Level 2 to crush Cell?

Yet apparently Thor can fight a later level Vegeta?

So therefore Thor STOMPS Cell.....right?

Originally posted by the ninjak
Didn't Gohan reach Super Saiyan Level 2 to crush Cell?

Yet apparently Thor can fight a later level Vegeta?

So therefore Thor STOMPS Cell.....right?

Yah, Thor beats Cell here, too.

None fight. This fight wouldnt even last 2 panels. Cell 10/10 and easily.

And whoever is saying Thor can keep up with Cell is.... I'm not even going to say the rest. People are in denial and Thor doesnt have the speed feat or power to keep up with someone like Cell. Hell, I feel safe to say that Nappa would give Thor hell and with the speed edge nappa has (dodging thousands of military bullet coming at him head on) his speed would over whelm Thor. Hell, enough of those finger blast that he has along with a couple of invisible blitz should drop Thor.

Originally posted by carver9
None fight. This fight wouldnt even last 2 panels. Cell 10/10 and easily.

And whoever is saying Thor can keep up with Cell is.... I'm not even going to say the rest. People are in denial and Thor doesnt have the speed feat or power to keep up with someone like Cell. Hell, I feel safe to say that Nappa would give Thor hell and with the speed edge nappa has (dodging thousands of military bullet coming at him head on) his speed would over whelm Thor. Hell, enough of those finger blast that he has along with a couple of invisible blitz should drop Thor. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/superdante/jollyandruwhw2wi9uj7.gif

Originally posted by carver9
None fight. This fight wouldnt even last 2 panels. Cell 10/10 and easily.

And whoever is saying Thor can keep up with Cell is.... I'm not even going to say the rest. People are in denial and Thor doesnt have the speed feat or power to keep up with someone like Cell. Hell, I feel safe to say that Nappa would give Thor hell and with the speed edge nappa has (dodging thousands of military bullet coming at him head on) his speed would over whelm Thor. Hell, enough of those finger blast that he has along with a couple of invisible blitz should drop Thor.

speed didn't stop you from giving the win to Thor over Superman though...right?

Originally posted by carver9
None fight. This fight wouldnt even last 2 panels. Cell 10/10 and easily.

And whoever is saying Thor can keep up with Cell is.... I'm not even going to say the rest. People are in denial and Thor doesnt have the speed feat or power to keep up with someone like Cell. Hell, I feel safe to say that Nappa would give Thor hell and with the speed edge nappa has (dodging thousands of military bullet coming at him head on) his speed would over whelm Thor. Hell, enough of those finger blast that he has along with a couple of invisible blitz should drop Thor.

The lulz of this post...

Phucking Nappa?! LMAO

Thor absorbs his Ki and shoots him into the sun. His powerset pretty much screws over any DBZ character. Energy attacks? Mjolnir. Physical attacks? Mjolnir. Powering up to over 9000? Mjolnir. People who can regen like Cell and Buu are tricky, but considering Thor's power output, you'd be insane to think that Thor can't destroy every single cell of their body. And they don't have the feats to suggest them being able to dodge Mjolnir at top speeds and have richochet all over their face.

Cell, Buu, Goku, Vegeta, etc...they're all doomed. Thor is a better DBZ killer than Superman can ever hope to be.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank


Cell, Buu, Goku, Vegeta, etc...they're all doomed. Thor is a better DBZ killer than Superman can ever hope to be. you should never be allowed to post in any dbz related thread ever, you ignorant putz!

Originally posted by Starscream M
you should never be allowed to post in any dbz related thread ever, you ignorant putz!

Troll much?

Thor would defeat Buu? Surely you jest.

Actually, Super Perfect Cell was more powerful than ultimate SSJ 2 Gohan. He only lost because of Vegeta distracting him.

Cell is like the fusion of Apocalypse and SSJ Goku.

Originally posted by galactusischere
Actually, Super Perfect Cell was more powerful than ultimate SSJ 2 Gohan. He only lost because of Vegeta distracting him.

Cell is like the fusion of Apocalypse and SSJ Goku. He faced a weakened Gohan that could only use 1 arm.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Troll much? yeah you're the one who's trolling making such a blanketed idiotic statement

you were either joking or you truly know nothing of dbz

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Thor would defeat Buu? Surely you jest.

Not really, based on just what exactly Mjolnir gives Thor. What happens when Buu attempts to turn Thor into candy and Thor sends the blast back at him?

Originally posted by Mindset
He faced a weakened Gohan that could only use 1 arm.

Well, he also had a lot of support and back-up from the other 'Z' warriors.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Not really, based on just what exactly Mjolnir gives Thor. What happens when Buu attempts to turn Thor into candy and Thor sends the blast back at him?

Do what Evil Buu did.

Originally posted by Starscream M
yeah you're the one who's trolling making such a blanketed idiotic statement

you were either joking or you truly know nothing of dbz

And you calling me clown, idiot, a moron, etc, isn't trolling?

Especially considering when I'm actually using evidence to support Thor and actual feats of his instead of "Thor beat such and such who did this which in turn makes him a universal abstract"?

It's obvious you don't have much to stand on if you constantly have to attempt to insult other people to cover up your serious denial and butt hurt here. Don't blame me that ABC logic doesn't fly in the forum and that Thor's plot device like Mjolnir phucks up DBZ characters.

Originally posted by galactusischere
Do what Evil Buu did.

Attempt to blow the blast back, with a gust of wind like power?

Against Thor? Really?

Originally posted by galactusischere
Well, he also had a lot of support and back-up from the other 'Z' warriors. No he didn't.

They were all beat up and done fighting by that point.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Attempt to blow the blast back, with a gust of wind like power?

Against Thor? Really?

Skip to 4: 50
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dz3vFqIQSYc

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
And you calling me clown, idiot, a moron, etc, isn't trolling?

Especially considering when I'm actually using evidence to support Thor and actual feats of his instead of "Thor beat such and such who did this which in turn makes him a universal abstract"?

It's obvious you don't have much to stand on if you constantly have to attempt to insult other people to cover up your serious denial and butt hurt here. Don't blame me that ABC logic doesn't fly in the forum and that Thor's plot device like Mjolnir phucks up DBZ characters. um mjolnir is nowhere near as powerful as you are making it seem

you're basically turning mjolnir into a deus ex device and claiming that because its magic it can basically do anything

also you're glossing over thor's lack of speed which is actually a huge disadvantage, a gamechanger in fact.

but when you say things like buu or mystic gohan would lose to thor, you've crossed the line from mere naive ignorance to the realm or deliberate trolling

Originally posted by Mindset
No he didn't.

They were all beat up and done fighting by that point.

They were all blasting him with all they had. It was Vegeta who turned the tides.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Attempt to blow the blast back, with a gust of wind like power?

Against Thor? Really?

What's to say that Buu wouldn't be able to copy Thor's weather manipulation powers?

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Skip to 4: 50
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dz3vFqIQSYc

Yeah.

Exactly my point.

Thor can't just send it back or just absorb it fully into his hammer?

Originally posted by galactusischere
What's to say that Buu wouldn't be able to copy Thor's weather manipulation powers?

Because Thor's weather manipulation powers is not a ki based technique.

The IT isn't ki based either. It just locks onto a ki source when used for teleporting. Buu copied it.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
They were all blasting him with all they had. It was Vegeta who turned the tides. Their attacks did absolutely nothing, they were all down before the fight was over, aside from Vegeta.

It was basically a depleted Gohan vs. a full power Cell. SS2 > Cell

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Yeah.

Exactly my point.

Thor can't just send it back or just absorb it fully into his hammer?

And what would that do? Buu can transmute matter. He would be immune to that crap. He can also control the weather:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iM8CTav_5pk
skip to 0:43

Originally posted by Mindset
Their attacks did absolutely nothing, they were all down before the fight was over, aside from Vegeta.

It was basically a depleted Gohan vs. a full power Cell. SS2 > Cell

He was in ultimate SSJ 2 form.

Originally posted by Starscream M
um mjolnir is nowhere near as powerful as you are making it seem

you're basically turning mjolnir into a deus ex device and claiming that because its magic it can basically do anything

also you're glossing over thor's lack of speed which is actually a huge disadvantage, a gamechanger in fact.

but when you say things like buu or mystic gohan would lose to thor, you've crossed the line from mere naive ignorance to the realm or deliberate trolling

So, you ignored the fact you've been blantantly trolling by calling posters names and the like? Nice. And then you attempt to call me a troll? Even better.

I'm not doing anything to Mjolnir that hasn't been shown on panel. That's the awesomeness of it. I actually have proof of all the crazy things it has done. Actual on panel directly shown proof.

Lack of speed? Based on what? He can fly at multiple times the speed of light, and has reacted at the same speeds in combat. And that's without mentioning that he can throw Mjolnir at speeds far greater than that and have it home in and attack in every which direction. All proved and shown on panel.

Basically, you're telling me these characters win based what one character did and the fact that another character is more powerful. In other words, "_____ wins because he's powerful". I show you how and why Thor wins in specific terms.

It's really no contest here.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
He was in ultimate SSJ 2 form. No such thing.

Originally posted by Mindset
No such thing.

There is. Trunks and Vegeta were in Ultimate SSJ 1 forms when they faced Cell Juniors. Goku was in Full Power SSJ 1 form.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
He was in ultimate SSJ 2 form. Originally posted by TheTyrant
There is. Trunks and Vegeta were in Ultimate SSJ 1 forms when they faced Cell Juniors. Goku was in Full Power SSJ 1 form.

Now, tell me if you can see the difference.

There no such thing as Ultimate SS2.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
And what would that do? Buu can transmute matter. He would be immune to that crap. He can also control the weather:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iM8CTav_5pk
skip to 0:43

The fact that Buu was able to turn himself into chocolate shows he's not immune to his own attacks. And Thor can transmute as well and actually has more feats of him doing so than Buu does.

And lol at saying a DBZ character powering up is akin to them controlling the weather consciously like Thor can.

Originally posted by galactusischere
The IT isn't ki based either. It just locks onto a ki source when used for teleporting. Buu copied it.

The fact it requires ki to lock on makes it ki based. Other wise it would just be. There's nothing to suggest that Buu can copy Thor's non-ki based abilities and use them as good as, much less better than he can.

These DBZ vs Thor threads are funny on a couple different levels.

DBZ characters typically have slower fligh/long term travel speeds that are WAY outclassed by their fighting speeds.

Where as Thor has momumental flight feats but comparatively poor combat speed feats.

Meh... in a purely physical matchup DBZ characters stomp including cell.
ESPECIALLY if we went by anime.

But, with Thor's energy manipulation, absorbtion, etc etc. he should be able to take these guys.

Originally posted by jinzin
These DBZ vs Thor threads are funny on a couple different levels.

DBZ characters typically have slower fligh/long term travel speeds that are WAY outclassed by their fighting speeds.

Where as Thor has momumental flight feats but comparatively poor combat speed feats.

Meh... in a purely physical matchup DBZ characters stomp including cell.
ESPECIALLY if we went by anime.

But, with Thor's energy manipulation, absorbtion, etc etc. he should be able to take these guys. Pretty much.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
The fact that Buu was able to turn himself into chocolate shows he's not immune to his own attacks. And Thor can transmute as well and actually has more feats of him doing so than Buu does.

And lol at saying a DBZ character powering up is akin to them controlling the weather consciously like Thor can.

Super Buu turned android 18(a casual planet buster in the manga and anime) into an egg How is that not matter transmutation? What MT feat does Thor have that can top that? When has Thor absorbed a blast that could blow up a galaxy?

They can control it. You can see it in the video. And he did so unintentionally by just screaming
and that was only Kid Buu
Buuhan would utterly wreck Thor.

Also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfmNEyzhoew&feature=related
skip to 4:52

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Super Buu turned android 18(a casual planet buster in the manga and anime) into an egg How is that not matter transmutation? What MT feat does Thor have that can top that? When has Thor absorbed a blast that could blow up a galaxy?

They can control it. You can see it in the video. And he did so unintentionally by just screaming
and that was only Kid Buu
Buuhan would utterly wreck Thor.

He used his special attack to turn her into an egg, yes. An attack which comes from a source of energy which can Mjolnir can absorb or redirect and with greater power. You don't seem to get that. And seriously? How many times do you want the Null Bomb or Grandmaster foiling feats posted? He can absorb/shield/redirect anything these characters can throw at him and send it back with even MORE power.

No, they can't control it. It's them screaming, their ki effecting the weather wildly by powering up. When has a DBZ character consciously effected the weather during an actual fight? Not as a side effect of powering up, but actually using the weather as means of combat? Thor's storms are greater, no contest.

And again, more of the ____ wrecks Thor based on....

Nothing, really.

ABC logic is pretty much ruled out here. Sorry if that means you can't support these individual characters' feats without them.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfmNEyzhoew&feature=related
skip to 4:52

He ate an unquantifiable ki blast.

And?

How does Thor even defeat Buu? How does he even hurt him? The only reason that the spirit bomb worked was because Kid Buu was evil incarnate. Thor has got nothing like that.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
How does Thor even defeat Buu? How does he even hurt him? The only reason that the spirit bomb worked was because Kid Buu was evil incarnate. Thor has got nothing like that.

He doesn't have an attack comprised of divine energy, energy which caused harm to Mephisto, who is evil incarnate?

...wait.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
How does Thor even defeat Buu? How does he even hurt him? The only reason that the spirit bomb worked was because Kid Buu was evil incarnate. Thor has got nothing like that. Mystic Gohan, Vegito and SS3 Goku were hurting him with punches iirc.

Originally posted by Mindset
Mystic Gohan, Vegito and SS3 Goku were hurting him with punches iirc.

All of whom far outpower Thor.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
He doesn't have an attack comprised of divine energy, energy which caused harm to Mephisto, who is evil incarnate?

...wait.
That's different. Goku's SB absorbed the power of every living being on earth. Can Thor do that?

Originally posted by TheTyrant
All of whom far outpower Thor.


Lol, based on what?

Originally posted by TheTyrant
How does Thor even defeat Buu? How does he even hurt him? The only reason that the spirit bomb worked was because Kid Buu was evil incarnate. Thor has got nothing like that. IIRC he was defeated cause the spirit bomb blew away every single cell of him.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
All of whom far outpower Thor.


That's different. Goku's SB absorbed the power of every living being on earth. Can Thor do that?

Based on what? Actual feats this time or just more conjecture and assumption?

Probably, not, as he doesn't have a technique such as that in his arsenal. He can, however, draw energy from the earth itself in the form of electromagentic energy, thermal energy, or various other kinds of energy. And while we're on the subject of plot device attacks such as the Spirit Bomb, which require the cooperation of beings outside of Goku, you don't think that Thor could petition Asgard to amp him?

There's still nothing to suggest a God Blast which damaged a Celestial won't phuck up Majin Buu. And even less to suggest that Buu could handle eating his own attacks amplied up to a hundred fold.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Based on what? Actual feats this time or just more conjecture and assumption?

Probably, not, as he doesn't have a technique such as that in his arsenal. He can, however, draw energy from the earth itself in the form of electromagentic energy, thermal energy, or various other kinds of energy. And while we're on the subject of plot device attacks such as the Spirit Bomb, which require the cooperation of beings outside of Goku, you don't think that Thor could petition Asgard to amp him?

There's still nothing to suggest a God Blast which damaged a Celestial won't phuck up Majin Buu. And even less to suggest that Buu could handle eating his own attacks amplied up to a hundred fold.
Originally posted by Mindset
Lol, based on what?
ABC logic FTW.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Based on what? Actual feats this time or just more conjecture and assumption?

Probably, not, as he doesn't have a technique such as that in his arsenal. He can, however, draw energy from the earth itself in the form of electromagentic energy, thermal energy, or various other kinds of energy. And while we're on the subject of plot device attacks such as the Spirit Bomb, which require the cooperation of beings outside of Goku, you don't think that Thor could petition Asgard to amp him?

There's still nothing to suggest a God Blast which damaged a Celestial won't phuck up Majin Buu. And even less to suggest that Buu could handle eating his own attacks amplied up to a hundred fold.
The GB is too slow. Kinda like Vegeta's final flash.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
ABC logic FTW.

The GB is too slow. Kinda like Vegeta's final flash.

So nothing of note that can be used here? Cool.

The Godblast has been fired more quickly than Vegeta has fired the Final Flash. Regardless, Thor has means of beating DBZ characters without using the Godblast.

Keep on topic, this is Cell.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
So nothing of note that can be used here? Cool.

well, if you're gonna just dismiss everything the dbz side is putting forth...I guess then yeah, thor...I mean Mjolnir wins!

Originally posted by Starscream M
well, if you're gonna just dismiss everything the dbz side is putting forth...I guess then yeah, thor...I mean Mjolnir wins!

I'm not dismissing anything. I'm asking for feats of the specific character used against Thor, in this case, Cell. PR ruled out ABC logic in general, and OV said it wasn't going to fly in the thread he created. Sorry.

You can be upset that Mjolnir gives Thor a huge advantage, but it's true.

lol
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/dragon_ball/v42/c007/12.html

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I'm not dismissing anything. I'm asking for feats of the specific character used against Thor, in this case, Cell. PR ruled out ABC logic in general, and OV said it wasn't going to fly in the thread he created. Sorry.

You can be upset that Mjolnir gives Thor a huge advantage, but it's true. Pr is not god you know. he could be wrong (I think in this case he is) regarding whether abc logic is applicable. common sense should dictate that we allow abc logic regarding dbz characters.

Originally posted by Starscream M
Pr is not god you know. he could be wrong (I think in this case he is) regarding whether abc logic is applicable. common sense should dictate that we allow abc logic regarding dbz characters.

I didn't say he is, but he's a mod and I think he'd have a stronger grasp on the rules on the versus forum than either of us. And if we show ABC logic regarding DBZ characters, then we should use ABC logic for comic book characters and video game characters and everyone else. You see how that's a slippery slope? Bending the rules or changing the system primarily to allow a specific character or group there of is pretty much the definition of bias.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
PR ruled out ABC logic in general, and OV said it wasn't going to fly in the thread he created. Then we can throw away every single DBZ character related thread...

^ Well said.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
Then we can throw away every single DBZ character related thread... Sounds good.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I didn't say he is, but he's a mod and I think he'd have a stronger grasp on the rules on the versus forum than either of us. And if we show ABC logic regarding DBZ characters, then we should use ABC logic for comic book characters and video game characters and everyone else. You see how that's a slippery slope? Bending the rules or changing the system primarily to allow a specific character or group there of is pretty much the definition of bias. but don't you realize abc logic is perfectly valid in many situations?

ie, if I say superman can beat hulk and hulk can beat captain america, its perfectly reasonable to conclude superman can beat captain america

where one can't use abc logic is if special circumstances come into play...ie saying because human torch can beat namor (through heat weakness) that human torch must also be able to beat storm (who namor could prob beat but human torch may lose to due to heat weakness no longer existing)

using abc logic regarding dbz is very reasonable imo.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
Then we can throw away every single DBZ character related thread...

Not really.

I can personally think of plenty of feats Goku accomplished in each of the sagas on his own, without projecting other feats and showings on him based on who he has beaten. All the main characters individually has feats and skills on their own. The main problem with DBZ is that it's mostly unquantifiable feats, open to interpretation and assumption. Sucks, but that's the way it was designed. I don't why DBZ should get a slide just because they're disadvantaged against characters with feats which can be measured explicitly and without projection from other beings.

Originally posted by Starscream M


using abc logic regarding dbz is very reasonable imo. Within the DBZ universe.

Originally posted by Starscream M
using abc logic regarding dbz is very reasonable imo.

Originally posted by Mindset
Within the DBZ universe.

Pretty much.

Originally posted by Mindset
Within the DBZ universe. well, no one is saying because vegeta is more powerful than nappa, therefore he beat thor

what we're saying is that if nappa was able to catch machine gun fire, then vegeta, a superior saiyan is capable of the same. I don't see whats wrong with that.

Originally posted by Starscream M
well, no one is saying because vegeta is more powerful than nappa, therefore he beat thor

what we're saying is that if nappa was able to catch machine gun fire, then vegeta, a superior saiyan is capable of the same. I don't see whats wrong with that. Because you're saying more than that, which leads to deductive fallacies.

Originally posted by Mindset
Because you're saying more than that, which leads to deductive fallacies. no, I'm not saying more than that. I'm saying exactly that.

And I'm opposed to using abc logic for unique powers, ie buu's scream breaking reality is a unique power that doesn't mean that mystic gohan (a being more powerful than buu) could replicate

jake is just being stubborn

Mystic Gohan was pretty much doing the same thing.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Mystic Gohan was pretty much doing the same thing. could be, I don't remember him doing that though

FX-B3dHKxzc

Yeah, Vegeta's Arm gets broken easily by a weak ass kick, he's far more durable than Thor. There's no way Mjolnir, one of the most powerful weapons in the world, wielded by one of the most powerful beings in the world, would break Vegeta's neck or cave in his entire chest.

lulz. wrong thread... still applies.

Originally posted by Starscream M
jake is just being stubborn

By holding all these fictional characters by the same basis and method of debating?

Or by showing and mentioning dozens of feats that show Thor being superior to Cell or Vegeta?

Originally posted by marwash22
FX-B3dHKxzc

Yeah, Vegeta's Arm gets broken easily by a weak ass kick, he's far more durable than Thor. There's no way Mjolnir, one of the most powerful weapons in the world, wielded by one of the most powerful beings in the world, would break Vegeta's neck or cave in his entire chest.

That was a weaker Vegeta than what would be used in a debate (assuming he begins powered up at maximum) to be fair. Still, Thor's striking power with Mjolnir is going to mess up the Z Fighters. Pretty sure Celestials are more durable than people like Cell and the others.

Android 17 is a casual planet buster. Try again.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Android 17 is a casual planet buster. Try again.

Did 17 ever casually bust a planet? And I assume you mean via energy attacks. Attacks that, yep, Thor can stop.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Did 17 ever casually bust a planet? And I assume you mean via energy attacks. Attacks that, yep, Thor can stop.

I wasn't comparing her to Thor.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Did 17 ever casually bust a planet? And I assume you mean via energy attacks. Attacks that, yep, Thor can stop. Weakest-form Frieza casually busted a planet. Just because Android 17 never did, doesn't mean he can't. I hope nobody's making the argument that Android 17 somehow has less powerful energy attacks/stamina than weakest-form Frieza...

facepalm

Planet Buster... how? By shooting energy attacks! DBZ characters are not impervious to physical attacks and their own physical attacks are no where near as powerful; even when their power level increases, thei physical durability does not change and they do not have a HF.

^ DBZ characters have affected each other more with physical attacks than with energy attacks at times. This false distinction between physical force and energy force doesn't hold water.

And yes, the DBZ warriors did get more physically durable as time went along. There were times when a punch by pre-SSJ Goku would have drawn blood from pre-SSJ Vegeta. Arguing that same punch would in any way hurt SSJ2 Vegeta is nonsense.

So, in your opinion, Thor isn't physically stronger than perfect cell (who decimated Vegeta)?

^ I haven't taken the time to measure just how respectively strong they are against each other. Because doing so to sufficiently satisfy the inexplicably exacting standards Dragonball critics have would involve a painstaking process of measuring levels of various characters (and their own respective incarnations) in the areas of power, speed, durability, and strength on top of something that we have on-panel directly measured, i.e., planet busting weakest-form Frieza, machine gun bullet-catching Roshi.

It's not like we have anything to give us a rough measure of just how strong these Dragonball characters are compared to a normal human... like... a numerical-based power level system... pssh...

Even Master Roshi is a planet buster.

Originally posted by Estacado
Even Master Roshi is a planet buster. He busted a Moon.

Originally posted by marwash22
FX-B3dHKxzc

Yeah, Vegeta's Arm gets broken easily by a weak ass kick, he's far more durable than Thor. There's no way Mjolnir, one of the most powerful weapons in the world, wielded by one of the most powerful beings in the world, would break Vegeta's neck or cave in his entire chest.

Weak ass kick? 18 was stronger than Vegeta When you say "world" do you mean Marvel Earth? 18 was well above Vegeta and Trunks.

Originally posted by Mindset
He busted a Moon.
Still impressive from a guy whos power level is around only a 100 or a bit more...

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ I haven't taken the time to measure just how respectively strong they are against each other. Because doing so to sufficiently satisfy the inexplicably exacting standards Dragonball critics have would involve a painstaking process of measuring levels of various characters (and their own respective incarnations) in the areas of power, speed, durability, and strength on top of something that we have on-panel directly measured, i.e., planet busting weakest-form Frieza, machine gun bullet-catching Roshi.

It's not like we have anything to give us a rough measure of just how strong these Dragonball characters are compared to a normal human... like... a numerical-based power level system... pssh... So, in short... no. You have no evidence is what you're saying. If this were court, your client would be phucked 'cause you're proving to be a piss poor lawyer.

The way we calculate statistics and make legitimate assertions is by looking at feats. I think we can agree that DBZ character's biggest weapon, is energy attacks.

Just saying "Oh, well, so and so DBZ character is a planet buster"... is nonsense for three reasons. 1 being that, they bust planets, not using physical strength, but by using energy attacks. 2nd reason being that, everyone (that can use ki) in the history of that series is a planet buster, 'cause any amount of energy you shoot into a planet's core, will blow up the planet. 3rd reason is, in a fight against someone who absorbs and redirects energy at a higher level of strength and speed than it was fired, it's irrelevant and asinine to even bring energy feats into the conversation.

Now, on to physical strength, endurance and stamina... Thor has the advantage in every way. If you can't provide feats that legitimately backup you assertion that Cell/vegeta/Goku, etc, are superior... you lose by default. This is how a debate works, saying "nuh-uh" and using just 'cause logic, doesn't work. Unlike DBZ advocates, the people who support Thor have feats that support the claim that he can shatter mountain with a punch.

Vague assumptions based on nonsensical abc logic has never won an debate for anyone, you need facts. Until you can prove that a DBZ character has strength equivalent to someone who can lift creatures who are larger than a planet... you have no argument.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ I haven't taken the time to measure just how respectively strong they are against each other. Because doing so to sufficiently satisfy the inexplicably exacting standards Dragonball critics have would involve a painstaking process of measuring levels of various characters (and their own respective incarnations) in the areas of power, speed, durability, and strength on top of something that we have on-panel directly measured, i.e., planet busting weakest-form Frieza, machine gun bullet-catching Roshi.

It's not like we have anything to give us a rough measure of just how strong these Dragonball characters are compared to a normal human... like... a numerical-based power level system... pssh...
Even assuming the ABC totem-poling you're applying was kosher in this forum there are no canon power levels after Frieza. It becomes unquantifiable conjecture based feat projection.

Also having a higher power level doesn't necessarily mean being better in every way. Case in point: Farmer with Shotgun had a powerlevel of 5 whereas Roshi's turtle had a power level of 0.001 IIRC. Now Farmer with Shotgun would beat Roshi's turtle in a fight but just because Farmer with Shotgun is 5000 times more powerful than the turtle doesn't mean we can project turtle's attributes times 5000 to Farmer with Shotgun. Obviously you're not going to say a normal human's skin is 5000 times more durable than a turtle shell.

The power level system seems to rate damage output, not overall stats, which is why when a character uses a powerful Ki attack their power level climbs. Its not like using that ki attack made them twice as strong, durable, and fast.

^ power level dictate how much energy someone has.... not, how strong they are, or how durable the are. You can get ridiculously hyperbolic and claim that there is a SS20; let's call that a fact, it's not gonna change that fact that DBZ character's are still highly susceptible to pain and injury... unlike Thor, Superman and other characters on that level.

Their strength and durability increases, Cell for example after he became perfect.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSww4SynMtc

stuff like that carries through the entire story.

Someone with power level 300 can destroy the moon, but Vegeta didn't believe anyone with power level less than his could destroy the earth (And he was over 10,000 then). Power levels are far from a stable, linear increase.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
Their strength and durability increases, Cell for example after he became perfect.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSww4SynMtc

stuff like that carries through the entire story.
In general yes, but in no way is someone with 20,000 power level always going to be twice as fast as someone with 10,000 power level. There's no evidence that supports those directly correlate, in fact there are many cases of someone with a higher power being slower than someone with a lower power.

Originally posted by King Kandy
In general yes, but in no way is someone with 20,000 power level always going to be twice as fast as someone with 10,000 power level. There's no evidence that supports those directly correlate, in fact there are many cases of someone with a higher power being slower than someone with a lower power. I haven't claimed that but to say that only the "energy output" increases with the "scouter number system" is pretty ignorant imo.

All things being equal, which is assumed in forum battles, I'd say Thor would take a majority because of the abilities Mjolnir grants him (shielding, energy absorption, bfr, etc), but I could see Cell (or Vegeta) at his peak in the same neighborhood as Thor powerwise and, if he could separate Thor from his hammer, he could likely beat the goat piss out of Thor hand to hand. Mjolnir's pretty much the deciding factor though. Without it Thor would likely get stomped, but with it his defenses to most of Cell's most powerful attacks give Thor a huge edge.

Also, I'm not of the school of thought that since DBZ didn't feature a lot of comparable lifting feats to their Western Comic Counterparts that the characters are weaker physically, or that since they weren't written in the traditional Western style with narrated "quantifiable" speed feats stating their exact velocity that they can't be measured up fairly. It's clearly intended and depicted that the upper echeclon DBZ characters have the strength to shatter mountains and rip apart planets from the impacts of their blows, have the durability to survive mach speed impacts into solid earth, causing impact craters ( and hop up and continue battle), battle at such a speed that they appear invisible to observers without comparable speed/reflexes, and as a signature, have planetary destruction + level energy output. Taking that into consideration, and since, per rule on KMC, all character abilities, regardless of universe of origin, work in combat as they do per their depictions in their native universes (meaning none of those "The Speed Force doesn't exist in _______'s universe, so it wouldn't even work on him anyway" or "There's no way of knowing if a mountain on Marvel Earth is as dense as a mountain on Image or Darkhorse Earth." arguments), that at least the big 3 (Goku, Vegeta, Buu/Uubu) and a few others are in the Wonder Woman to Superman+ tier despite not having the explicitly stated feats for comparison, because it's pretty clearly the intent of their depictions.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
to say that only the "energy output" increases with the "scouter number system" is pretty ignorant imo. Uh, energy output is the only thing a scouter detects. I wasn't trying to say that they didn't get stronger or more durable as their power level increases. What i mean is that, characters never get to the point where they are invulnerable to injury or pain.