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Kain the vampire has a problem. It appears some ******* has magicly affixed extremely heavy boots to his feet, which he cannot get off, or destroy. They are preventing him from turning into mist, or teleporting, as well, so his only method of transportation, since no horse, and no character in LoK can carry him, is to heeltoe it. That's right, Kain has to walk in the iron boots. His final destination is inside Death Mountain in the LoZ verse, which, thankfully for Kain, is magicly only 400 meters away.

That's right, all Kain has to do, is walk to Death mountain, and the Gorons will remove them.

The boots get all feats of heaviness from everygame they appear in, while Kain has every feat of leg strength he ever demonstrates. The walk is in four one-hundred meter stages.

1. Kain must walk a relatively smooth and even road, easy going.
2. Kain must occasionally hop across 3 foot deep, 3 foot wide, puddles, of water!
3.Kain must walk across one hundred meters of the magnetic floor in the Goron mines.
4. Kain must climb a cliff face while wearing the boots. At the top is Darbus, who will remove the boots.

How far can Kain walk in the boots?

Kain runs the gauntlet.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Kain runs the gauntlet. K, strength feats to support this?

will be a simple strength v.s. weight argument.

Innitially he'll have to just prove he can lift his feet, then he has to have enough leg strength to hop a bit more than three feet, many times, then he needs to be able to lift his feet under atleast double the stress, because the magnets are so strong they can lift the boots to the ceiling, they add more than the boot's own weight to the challenge, but we'll call it doubling to be nice to Kain. Then he has to legitimately climb a cliff face.

Lol, Kain stays in one spot for 40 days and 40 nights.

Not sure he even needs feats, I would like to think even I could walk with some discomfort a short distance in boots like that. Not sure how I would deal with being put upside down on magnets and such, but Kain being far stronger, e.g. actually in the "tonnes" range he should be able to run and jump with them on as if they were not even there.

Kindly prove Kain can lift a foot with a minimum of 35 tons attatched?

35 tons? lol, keep your fanon out of here please. That much iron would weigh what? 50-60 pound per foot? as I said I could just about struggle to walk with them on my feet, Kain could sprint it.

The boots are heavier than Dangoro, who, mathed with a density of 100 lbs/cubic foot, comes out around 70 tons. Impossibly light, and ignoring his thick armour.

Each boot weighs a minimum of 35 tons, and I'm getting feats from other games, too.

Then you have mathed Dangoro wrong boyo, because the boots are simply made of Iron which are based on actual fact of how much iron weighs in such quantity would only come to a combined weight of about 200 pounds at most.

http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo141/ShinTwist_ScreamPaste/DangoroVsBoots.jpg

Argue with this, mah boi.

Link outbalances Dangoro on the edge of the platform, while barely on the other side of the center. haermm Yeeaaah. The boots are heavy enough to GREATLY effect the balance of the massive platform, AND outweigh Dangoro. Minimum 70 tons.

Now, you'd do well to go get soem strength feats for Kain, rather than simply try to downplay the boots.

Theres no "heavy" at all and Link walks all around that platform during the gameplay, which your image represents. I suggest you stop trying to overhype the boots in a desperate attempt to consolidate yourself on the failure of your fanon.

And weve gone through Kains strength feats, hes got enough strength in his arms to overpower Raziels 100 ton strength, his legs having enough muslce would easily sprint, run, jump and do cartwheels with those little 200 pounds beauties on.

I see no evidence for either of your arguments. Kindly prove either of them.

Link walks around, and without the boots, in no way effects the balance of the platform. The boots, which would weigh less than his body under your failure of logic, shift the mass of the entire platform, and outweigh Dangoro all at once. Dangoro shifts the balance, too.

What arguments? the ones involving Kains strength that have been shown so many times, or those involving that factual nature behind the boots simply being iron?

These have been proven before, this silly thread is just an effort from you to try and combat the fact that the Iron boots are, by the factual nature of the game canon and they undermine your daft little fanon and calculations. Not that bouncing Gorons dont undermine it as toonforce anyway ofc.

The only conclusion is that the platform is unsteady in that case.

I accept your concession.

You've declined to make any sort of logical argument, provide evidence, or actually attempt to prove anything. Kain cannot lift his feet, case closed.

BT, it's simple. Dangoro cannot weigh less than the boots. It is absolutely impossible based on math, the game, and logic.

Hey, you lack all three of those things. :O

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
BT, it's simple. Dangoro cannot weigh less than the boots. It is absolutely impossible based on math, the game, and logic.

Hey, you lack all three of those things. :O

No, theres no impossiblities in the things you have mentioned. The only impossibility is that iron in that quantity weigh 70 tonnes.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
I accept your concession.

You've declined to make any sort of logical argument, provide evidence, or actually attempt to prove anything. Kain cannot lift his feet, case closed.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
I don't have the patience to execute a WoT against posters like BT and Quan who'll just pretend to win anyway.

Hypocrite haermm

Look above, I posted evidence, made my arguments, you just claimed to win. You, sir, have an incurable case of dumb.

Precisely, that's why the boots are heavier than Iron. You're basically clinging to a title. Meanwhile, logic, math, and the game itself support the boots being heavier than Iron.

Dangoro's weight easily breaks the thick chains that were holding up the platform when he jumped on it, causing it to fall into the lava.

That platform alone would weigh what, 10,000 tons or so? And the chains were holding it up with no problem prior to the force dangoro applied from his jump.

BT is just being obtuse. Dangoro is heavy as hell.

what I really lol at is that the game tells you flat out "so heavy even a Goron can't move you", which is clearly > iron, as gorons have blatant super strength, and he clings to "NO, they're made of IRON!"

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Dangoro's weight easily breaks the thick chains that were holding up the platform when he jumped on it, causing it to fall into the lava.

That platform alone would weigh what, 10,000 tons or so? And the chains were holding it up with no problem prior to the force dangoro applied from his jump.

BT is just being obtuse. Dangoro is heavy as hell.
Also, this.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
what I really lol at is that the game tells you flat out "so heavy even a Goron can't move you", which is clearly > iron, as gorons have blatant super strength,

Obviously not,because two people have used nothing but iron to>their "super strength" that you claim....the game and a character within the games tell you their iron...not super dense or special magical iron boots...nothing...

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Dangoro's weight easily breaks the thick chains that were holding up the platform when he jumped on it, causing it to fall into the lava.

That platform alone would weigh what, 10,000 tons or so? And the chains were holding it up with no problem prior to the force dangoro applied from his jump.

BT is just being obtuse. Dangoro is heavy as hell.

Ok prove the platforms weight and the strength of those chains?

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Precisely, that's why the boots are heavier than Iron. You're basically clinging to a title. Meanwhile, logic, math, and the game itself support the boots being heavier than Iron.

Title, description, statement etc etc. Pretty much everything that makes things canon. Your clinging to your math based on what you think is logical in a fictional verse that has these apprently thousand ton things bouncing across the lava.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Look above, I posted evidence, made my arguments, you just claimed to win. You, sir, have an incurable case of dumb.

One image that does not really prove anything is your evidence? no wonder your such a poor debator who jumps to conclusions based on his own fanon. I bet if you did not make up and invent daft feats for your LoZ love you could not debate to save your life the feats they actually do have....

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Lol no, you're still not getting this. I don't have to find an exact weight. I found their exact weight if they were made of Iron, and it is much less than they would need to be in order to do the things they do, like stopping Gorons and equaling Dangoro's weight. Dangoro simply cannot weigh 400 pounds. He's too ****ing big.

For example, take a look at a 400 pound human. They're really fat. But nowhere near the size of Dangoro.

Math. Logic. The game itself. All of these things are telling you that you are incorrect. Accept it.

Edit: Actually, I didn't even find their exact weight. I added like 200 pounds to it.

Originally posted by Burning thought
You keep saying this BS, but youve yet to make fact on the weights of Gorons yet. All this "hes too ****ing big" rubbish is just a constant claim against real evidence.

So? Dangoro is not human

No, your math, your poor and ridiculous logic. The game itself says their iron, says nothing more than that and does not make a defined statement on Gorons either. The game even disregards physics somewhat with having Dangoro bouncing so no, the game, logic and canon is all on my side.

Oh, look, moar feats. The boots are heavier than a 14.5 (minimum, mathed WW Link as 3 feet tall) stone statue.
http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo141/ShinTwist_ScreamPaste/FaceVsBoots01.jpg

Ok prove the platforms weight and the strength of those chains?



Lol. Ask Paste.

Obviously you will dishonestly attempt to low ball this, but how much do you expect a rocky platform of that size to weigh?

i like pictures

If Gorons can't move iron, how does Dangoro wear armor?

Originally posted by The Scenario
If Gorons can't move iron, how does Dangoro wear armor?
He doesn't. It's just that all of us are blind and BT is right.

I dont know if your blind ,just shortsighted. You cannot see how actual canon and realistic claims based on real statistics from real life on iron>>>screampastes and indeed your daft assumptions and calculations on what you want Gorons and the other objects to weigh. The iron is the only constant.

Hey, did you know that Gorons sink in water, therefore making them heavier than humans?

Actually, the Iron Boots own description contradicts what Bo says, which is probably just a localization error.

You're trying to use fallible ingame statement by a character to > canon statement from devs.

Lol, BT. Always clinging to any small scrap you can.

Proof of Kain's strength now?

Word of God and the the original Japanese says the item is question is the Heavy Boots. The localization team changed it to Iron Boots during translation. Word of God doesn't say iron, and evidence says heavier than iron.

Iron Boots aren't made of iron, bro. It's a misnomer.

Your reaching again (yes it is a favourite word when around you guys), the Japanese never say in your source what your claiming....they were calling them heavy boots in answer to the water temple in the other thread, nothing about errors...

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Hey, did you know that Gorons sink in water, therefore making them heavier than humans?

Humans that cant swim sink in water if they do not attempt to control their weight.

I'm sure that platform only weighs 1,000 pounds at most in BT's estimation as well.

Well considering it was poorly balanced, the platforms weight is not necesserily the most important thing to be discussed. All I know is the weight of iron in that quantity, thats all I need to know to understand the weight of Iron boots.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Your reaching again (yes it is a favourite word when around you guys), the Japanese never say in your source what your claiming....they were calling them heavy boots in answer to the water temple in the other thread, nothing about errors...


The exact phrase he said was Heavy Boots, not Iron Boots. You're the one arguing with the guy that made the game.



Corpses tend to float, and people usually sink when their lungs are full of water.

It was not poorly balanced when the chains were holding it up. When Link initially steps on the platform, it does not move at all. This is in a cutscene by the way.

So yeah, Kain can't even take a single step. IT SEEMS, no one wants to argue on his behalf, only make up excuses. It'd be neat to actually see a strength feat, but I see none.

Originally posted by The Scenario
The exact phrase he said was Heavy Boots, not Iron Boots. You're the one arguing with the guy that made the game.



Corpses tend to float, and people usually sink when their lungs are full of water.

He did not say the other team were wrong in calling them Iron boots, this guy simply said Heavy instead of iron. Thats not an offical error....

oh and the boots are heavy, just not in the tonnes your claiming.

Its also possible Gorons have little to no buyonancy having those outcroppings of rock on them. Simply not being able to swim would foil anything like them attempting to float.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
It was not poorly balanced when the chains were holding it up. When Link initially steps on the platform, it does not move at all. This is in a cutscene by the way.

I have seen it, we dont know the strength of those chains. Simply cant assume that just because the platform is large that those chains holding up had plenty of strength. For all you know, they were just barely holding it and Dangaroo and Link both standing on it at once, the former jumping on it was too much....

These are speculations, but the weight of the Iron boots are not, and the weight of Dangoro is<Iron boots.

Its incredibly simple but direct logic thats infalliable unlike daft assumptions and calculations on specifics we dont know about.

And he said heavy boots, not iron. He used the Japanese word habyibutso, which translates to "heavy boots." The word iron only appears in the english version.

Weight of Dangoro + iron armor < Heavy Boots. That is what we have been trying to tell you.

So? as i said thats not an official reprimand from the Japanese source of the game claiming that the West are wrong in using the word "iron" for the boots. Thats just the Japanese guy giving his own claim to the boots. Hes not actually saying anyone or anything is wrong.

As I said above, they are heavy boots....100-200 pounds is damn heavy for a pair of boots.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Weight of Dangoro + iron armor < Heavy Boots. That is what we have been trying to tell you.

Also how do we know Dangoro is using iron armour?

I'm just going to quote this for LULZ. what you say here demonstrates an epic lack of understanding. haermm

Originally posted by Burning thought


But the official name, used by the creator of the game himself, never used the word iron. The localization team added that, just like they gave Ganondorf a last name when he didn't have one. He never said they were wrong, nor did he have to. He just used the official name, which does not include iron.

What I'm doing is using logic. The evidence given shows the boots being heavier than normal iron would allow. For example, Moo mathed the boots at around 100-200 pounds if they were solid, but the area of the Temple of Time gives evidence that the boots were significantly over 5 times Link's weight, which would require them to add over 600 pounds. Since evidence shows that the boots are heavier than an amount of iron at their size would be, and the creator of the game and true name do not use the word iron, I am forced to conclude that the boots are either much denser than normal iron, or simply are not iron. I am leaning towards not iron because of Word of God and the true name not being iron.



That is the way they should be, based on the math. But the evidence shows that they are significantly heavier, leading me to conclude that they are heavier than normal iron.



Gorons have always been ironworkers and blacksmith. They're basically the Dwarves of Legend of Zelda. On multiple occasions they've been shown to make weapons and trade them.

Show me where it says the official name is "heavy boots" and that Bo never mensions "iron" either please. Then you may have some ground.

No your not using logic, rarely do on the LoZ side, how can you when your ignoring the fact the game says iron yet want to assume otherwise based on someone outside of the game making some fairly ridiculous calculations? or when Gorons bounce across the lava like cartoons. Then your conclusions are poor, the creator of the game does not have to use the word iron for them to be iron so your just reaching and theres no real evidence truly portraying the boots as heavy.

Based on what math? math from the game itself made by the developers or math decided by KMC fans? seriously....

But do we know they use iron because by the sounds of it they mine for all kinds of metals.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Show me where it says the official name is "heavy boots" and that Bo never mensions "iron" either please. Then you may have some ground.

No your not using logic, rarely do on the LoZ side, how can you when your ignoring the fact the game says iron yet want to assume otherwise based on someone outside of the game making some fairly ridiculous calculations? or when Gorons bounce across the lava like cartoons. Then your conclusions are poor, the creator of the game does not have to use the word iron for them to be iron so your just reaching and theres no real evidence truly portraying the boots as heavy.

Based on what math? math from the game itself made by the developers or math decided by KMC fans? seriously....

But do we know they use iron because by the sounds of it they mine for all kinds of metals.

Hey man. Do you realize that if you somehow won this argument, the only thing you'd accomplish is making Link an unaided Megatonner?

Originally posted by The Scenario
Word of God and the the original Japanese says the item is question is the Heavy Boots. The localization team changed it to Iron Boots during translation. Word of God doesn't say iron, and evidence says heavier than iron.

Iron Boots aren't made of iron, bro. It's a misnomer.

That makes a lot of sense because it wouldn't make sense if a Goron couldn't push away somebody just because they have boots made of iron and there is no way that would've tipped a platform with giant Goron on the end.

It would have to be magical boots made of mysterious metal that makes itself extremely heavy and with magnetic properties.

Originally posted by LLLLLink
Hey man. Do you realize that if you somehow won this argument, the only thing you'd accomplish is making Link an unaided Megatonner?

Explain?

Well, metals in Zelda have traits of epicness in them, like Gold, Silver, and apparently Iron.

Iron has so far not done anything "epic" its just heavier than in the boots quantity than what some of these creatures can move or face.

Metal in Zelda is nowhere near equivalent to our metals. Not by a longshot.

Example? I could assume the same about stone and other physical elements in LoZ I suppose, like how rock seems so much lighter and physics can allow large creatures to bounce along lava despite apprently being immune to heat....

Originally posted by LLLLLink
Well, metals in Zelda have traits of epicness in them, like Gold, Silver, and apparently Iron.

I refuse to believe those boots are Iron. Once I know original translations, I automatically see them as facts.

The boots are really ****ing heavy, what they're made of to be so is a m00t point.

Imho, even if Kain could walk the first hundred meters, he'll get trapped in a 3 foot deep puddle and slowly die. And if he somehow crawled past that, the magnetic floor = d00m of the hilarious kind.

Its not moot and their not heavy, Kain sprints through this with ease.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Its not moot and their not heavy, Kain sprints through this with ease. You claim this and post no evidence, over and over. Until Kain is strong enough to even lifth is foot in one of these incredibly heavy boots, he cannot do so.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Its not moot and their not heavy, Kain sprints through this with ease.

Stop this embarrassment. You have nothing.

Nothing.

The Japanese developer referred to them as the Heavy Boots.

That supercedes Bo's English translated statement, and the English translated name of the boots.

Originally posted by LLLLLink
Hey man. Do you realize that if you somehow won this argument, the only thing you'd accomplish is making Link an unaided Megatonner?
Hero of Time Link anyway.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Stop this embarrassment. You have nothing.

Nothing.

Oh I dont know, the only canon statements, claims and the only factual weight on my side is a pretty strong argument compared to a few blind fans getting upset over having their fanon collapsed.

Originally posted by NemeBro
The Japanese developer referred to them as the Heavy Boots.

That supercedes Bo's English translated statement, and the English translated name of the boots.


It does not supercede anything dear boy unless the developer officially states the Iron boots as a wrong translation. Him just naming them something else in what looks like an answer to a small part of the game does not account for anything.

Wow, they made a lot of possibly time consuming calculations on its weight and you ignore it? You're mean, lol.

Oh thats not fair, I dont ignore them. I just take the actual weight of iron which is a metal we know the factual weight for in this quantity. Their calculations are based on things we dont know factually within a fictional world where the creature their trying to label as 100 tons or so bounce off the lava.

If they want to count everything in this game as fact then you cant ignore the real weight of iron. You cant disagree with that just because some rock appears to be heavy.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Oh thats not fair, I dont ignore them. I just take the actual weight of iron which is a metal we know the factual weight for in this quantity. Their calculations are based on things we dont know factually within a fictional world where the creature their trying to label as 100 tons or so bounce off the lava.

No, they're not. It's really quite simple. The quantity of iron that would be in the boots came out around 200 pounds, right? However, that weight puzzle in the Temple of Time proves that the boots are over five times Link's weight, which would require them to be over 600 pounds. And we know the weight of those things because we could compare their weight to Link.

The Iron Boots have come out to heavier than iron.



Double standard. You're saying that iron has to be iron, but rock does not have to be rock. What's with that? We can't ignore the real weight of rock, either.



Canon statements = Heavy Boots. That's on our side.
Factual weight = less than that of the Iron/Heavy Boots. Also on our side.

Blind fanboys = not us.



You just said it yourself: The creator named them something different. The translation team changed the name that he used. Since he is Word of God, his name is more canon than the name of a couple of guys that translate words.

Think about it logically. If the math says that iron weighs less than the Iron Boots, and the creator never uses the word "iron" to refer to the boots, then it can be logically concluded that the boots are not iron. It's rather simple.

So, is this the first time a character has ever lost to an inanimate object in a thread? mmm

Yes. I'd say it's a shame, but it really isn't.

hrHBnG5Dt9U

:00-:31

Again...That is far more than 400 lbs. The platform is completely stable and stationary and Link's weight walking on to it didn't even budge it at all. Thus the chains are obviously not straining to hold on to the weight of that massive platform, and only snap off when Dangoro jumps up from maybe 50 ft up in the air on to it.


And when he does land, the chains don't even snap off immediately.

Raziel moves around thin pillars and then struggles to tip them over. Even if they are 100 tons, that would not put Raziel as a high 100 tonner, Kain is on Raziel's level of strength, and he was somewhat stronger than Raziel before Defiance, but tipping over tonnage with difficulty is a big stretch from wearing a big fraction of said tonnage on your two feet.

Can you walk around and run in shoes that weigh 30% each of your dead lifting potential?

No, but BT believes that Kain can sprint in such shoes.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
hrHBnG5Dt9U

:00-:31

Again...That is far more than 400 lbs. The platform is completely stable and stationary and Link's weight walking on to it didn't even budge it at all. Thus the chains are obviously not straining to hold on to the weight of that massive platform, and only snap off when Dangoro jumps up from maybe 50 ft up in the air on to it.


And when he does land, the chains don't even snap off immediately.

Raziel moves around thin pillars and then struggles to tip them over. Even if they are 100 tons, that would not put Raziel as a high 100 tonner, Kain is on Raziel's level of strength, and he was somewhat stronger than Raziel before Defiance, but tipping over tonnage with difficulty is a big stretch from wearing a big fraction of said tonnage on your two feet.

Can you walk around and run in shoes that weigh 30% each of your dead lifting potential?

400 pounds? how do you know? 400 pounds is damn heavy and more importantly it being stable when links walking on it sort of proves it not giving to his weight. This does not disprove having 400 pounds leaping on it from a high angle would not break it. As you point out, that platform looks heavy and massive, chances are the chains are not made to have 400 pounds jumping on it from a great height.

Which proves that the chains were strained too far their limit, not suddenly snapped because of the incredible weight you belive Dangoro is.

Raziel moves around pillars and fat blocks with ease, his lightest push can send it scraping meters along the ground and Kain overpowers raziels pushing strength with just his arms. Kains full body strength would be far in excess of 400 pound boots on his feet.



Originally posted by The Scenario
No, they're not. It's really quite simple. The quantity of iron that would be in the boots came out around 200 pounds, right? However, that weight puzzle in the Temple of Time proves that the boots are over five times Link's weight, which would require them to be over 600 pounds. And we know the weight of those things because we could compare their weight to Link.

The Iron Boots have come out to heavier than iron.



Double standard. You're saying that iron has to be iron, but rock does not have to be rock. What's with that? We can't ignore the real weight of rock, either.



Canon statements = Heavy Boots. That's on our side.
Factual weight = less than that of the Iron/Heavy Boots. Also on our side.

Blind fanboys = not us.



You just said it yourself: The creator named them something different. The translation team changed the name that he used. Since he is Word of God, his name is more canon than the name of a couple of guys that translate words.

Think about it logically. If the math says that iron weighs less than the Iron Boots, and the creator never uses the word "iron" to refer to the boots, then it can be logically concluded that the boots are not iron. It's rather simple.

I think Moo mathed them at 200 pounds, we do not know links weight, Links height is even debatable as Sin a LoZ fan does not believe Link is 6 ft tall, Link could actually be much smaller and I recall 4 ft from another forum so Link may not weigh in as much as being assumed. You cant try and bend the logic of what iron is based on a few statues, an in-game puzzle is not necesserily accurate either for weight. The puzzle if assumed to be correct only gives a rough estimate of 500-600 pounds to the weight of the iron boots.


We dont know the real weight of rocks, rocks and other structures can be hollow. In the case of iron boots, we know the weight of iron and we know the form of the boots. Technically we dont know if a rock is hollow, made of a very light rock etc. A rock can be far more varied in size, density and form than iron in the form of a pair of boots.


Wrong, every statement by a creator is not canon fact. If a Blizzard employee started refering to Deathwing as "the evil aspect" or an old LoK writer refered to Kain as "The ancient vamp" the canon of the series would not simply mold and change based on simply that conversation. This is not canon.

Oh, I am sorry but you are quite blind, or at least shortsighted.

The Creator did not "name" them canonically according to your source, he just refered to them under another name in what looks like some kind of FAQ on the water temple

The math is from blind fanboys who make a list of daft assumptions on the weight of various blocks, if the math was from the development team then you would be going somewhere. The whole canon behind the boots says their iron, an off-hand comment by the creator does not suddenly refute the canon as we know it from the games...

Keep calling us blind fanboys BT. It helps your argument and makes you look more intelligent.

No, really, it does! It's like you've never said anything incorrect, ever.

Ah sweet irony, calling us blind while desperately clinging to a single word and idea that contradicts all evidence, and there's a sizeable amount of it.

Never change, BT. you make me feel good about myself. 131

Haven't you guys learned it yet? You can't beat BT, because You can't beat stupid.

Originally posted by Phanteros
Haven't you guys learned it yet? You can beat BT, because You can't beat stupid.

Bolded word is typo much?

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Bolded word is typo much? Fixed

Again. The platform is completely stable. It's not even swaying a little bit under its sole means of suspension--before or after Link steps on it. There is no strain on those chains, that platform has been there for who knows how many centuries.

Dangoro's metal plates alone would come out to be over 400 lbs total. You aren't stupid enough to really believe that Dangoro's make up is less dense than a human's. No human of that size would be a mere 400 lbs.

If it was a mere matter of the chains being at their limits already, then the platform would have simply collapsed immediately. That's not what happened, there was some sway and then the chains broke one by one.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Again. The platform is completely stable. It's not even swaying a little bit under its sole means of suspension--before or after Link steps on it. There is no strain on those chains, that platform has been there for who knows how many centuries.

Dangoro's metal plates alone would come out to be over 400 lbs total. You aren't stupid enough to really believe that Dangoro's make up is less dense than a human's. No human of that size would be a mere 400 lbs.

If it was a mere matter of the chains being at their limits already, then the platform would have simply collapsed immediately. That's not what happened, there was some sway and then the chains broke one by one.


Why would it sway when the platform itself is far more heavy than Dangoro or Link? by itself the platform is huge, its weight alone would not allow it to sway on those chains which look as you said "stable" because they are holding it from several angles. But clearly the chains are not made to take Dangoro or 400-500 pounds extra than that platform because they broke.

I dont know about that, I cant see the entire 360 degree view of his plates. They could not be as thick as one would belive. Assuming ofc they are iron and not some lighter, less dense metal. I am not stupid enough to belive that Dangoro's tiny legs can allow it to jump any distance or bounce across lava in pain like a cartoon that its apprently supposed to be immune/resistant to but these things happen.

Immedialtey at what? thats only if the chains were very weak at that point, if they were as stable as they appear to be then its all likely that they strained at the weight of Dangoro falling on them and broke off now that they were weakened.

Originally posted by Phanteros
Haven't you guys learned it yet? You can't beat BT, because You can't beat stupid. Is this really necessary?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Is this really necessary? Well considering the fact he insult everyone else...

Just gonna highlight how you're contradicting yourself here.

you freely admit that the platform is large and heavy, but somehow believe, even though Link's 200+ pound body and equipment cannot even make it notice his weight, that adding 200 more pounds suddenly gives him the weight to outweigh Dangoro and shift the entire platform. haermm Impossible. The boots,as we keep telling you, weigh atleast 70 tons.

Find a strength feat, or Kain loses at stage one: He can't even walk in them.

If Dangoro was 400 lbs, I would be able to lift him.... at 14 yrs old.

Originally posted by LLLLLink
If Dangoro was 400 lbs, I would be able to lift him.... at 14 yrs old. You were a fat kid, huh?

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
You were a fat kid, huh?

Hell no. Just a strong mo-fo. You didn't have the job I had at that age and not be strong.

Meh, I'm happy. I managed to arrange a thread where a character lost to an item.

Haha. You're one spitey bastard, eh?

Well, no, but no one on Kain's side provided any evidence.

You know what you did.

K, the thing with the puddles, and the magnetic floor was kinda spitey. >_> But no one even bothered proving Kain could walk the first hundred meters.

Normally I would give a reason just to push things along but there isn't a definitive weight given for the boots. Not even a general ''between x and y''. We got 200 lbs each that I think BT says, just over or under 20 tons each to equal or be over Dangoro's weight, well over 70 tons as said above.

I'm going to go by a Link who can lift a 40+ ton rocky entity being able to walk with the boots like he does. I'm sure Kain is above the 40 ton mark so what Link (with the strength he had then at least) does with them in-game would be like how Kain would use them. By that:
1. Clears the first one.
2. 3ft hops may be much (being a normal step with them are half that) unless he were to use a lot of energy to make a large step, with the changes of falling in still there. Low chance of passing this hurdle.
3. Not upside down? Yeah. Asking how strong the magnets are would lead back to the 'Boot weight' issue.
4. This is where I see it 9/10 ending. Not only because of the weight, well mostly the weight, but also as he can only dig his hand claws in with his legs hardly being ably to do much besides hope for a large, strong rock pointing out to step on.

At the fanon weight Kain still easily clears it. Even if he cant jump with them on he just walks through the puddles unless they can be proven to be extremely deep, then we have the magnets which will simply be the same as the first part.

I assume link climbed the rockface with the boots on or did the final part never happen? in which case Kain simply uses claws to dig himself a ramp and walks to Darbus assuming the rockface has no outcroppings for him to climb up naturally.

Ofc the real weight of about 400 pounds would be easy.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Meh, I'm happy. I managed to arrange a thread where a character lost to an item.

In threads where your argument has crumbled you recite the same old nonsense and "Ive alredy wonz!" rubbish so much that its almost like your trying to convince yourself, either that or your incredibly insecure.

Well the OP did state that the puddles were 3ft deep.

Oh ok then missed that....Kain can walk through them then so I dont see puddles being a problem.

If Link really only had 200 pounds added to his weight with the boots, I could pick him up and walk with him.

Hell, Bo is like seven feet tall if I recall right, with his muscle and fat build-up he may very well be approaching 400 pounds as it is.

If Bo is heavy enough to rival Dangoro's weight, who apparently is only 400 pounds, why would he need them for the smaller Gorons?

Originally posted by BloodRain
Normally I would give a reason just to push things along but there isn't a definitive weight given for the boots. Not even a general ''between x and y''. We got 200 lbs each that I think BT says, just over or under 20 tons each to equal or be over Dangoro's weight, well over 70 tons as said above.

I'm going to go by a Link who can lift a 40+ ton rocky entity being able to walk with the boots like he does. I'm sure Kain is above the 40 ton mark so what Link (with the strength he had then at least) does with them in-game would be like how Kain would use them. By that:
1. Clears the first one.
2. 3ft hops may be much (being a normal step with them are half that) unless he were to use a lot of energy to make a large step, with the changes of falling in still there. Low chance of passing this hurdle.
3. Not upside down? Yeah. Asking how strong the magnets are would lead back to the 'Boot weight' issue.
4. This is where I see it 9/10 ending. Not only because of the weight, well mostly the weight, but also as he can only dig his hand claws in with his legs hardly being ably to do much besides hope for a large, strong rock pointing out to step on. CONGRATULASHUNZ.
You're the first one to actually debate this for Kain. *Hands trophy*

Now:

The boots are pretty obviously heavier than Dangoro himself, as they can unbalance the platform, lifting him and the far edge. (This is ignoring the weight of the platform itself.)

Having recently remathed it thanks to someone's different number pointing out there'd been an error in my BEDMAS(Turns out even I can screw up math. ), I got 70 tons for Dangoro's weight. This is with a density far too light to be made of stone, or unbalance the gigantic platofrm they're on like he can, or snap the chains like he does.

Boots, imho, are at a minimum, 35 tons a piece. Also, Link would be a lot stronger than someone who could lift 40 tons at this point, as not only did he walk on the magnetic floors (the ones on the ground would more than double the weight of the boots themselves) he actively throws Dangoro and over-powers Fyrus. Link's strength is moot, though, because he isn't here.

Kain would need to be able to prove ether of his legs can lift that much weight. (His entire body's total lifting strength when working in unison is estimated around 100 tons.) Could Kain maybe shuffle the first hundred meters? Welll... If the boots are the bare minimum of 35 tons each, maybe.

The first in 5 pages.. >_>

I found Dangoro to be 40-50 tons. (6/7x normal Gorons size who weigh about 7 tons) Meh. The way I see it if Link, who can walk like he does with them, is in the 50 or 70 ton area 'at that time', Kain being a 100 tonner (thus making him around Links general strength when he uses them then) would have the same-ish movement as him. Unless their body strength % is completely different but I don't see a reason to think that.

At worst he would have a little less freedom.

Originally posted by BloodRain
The first in 5 pages.. >_>

I found Dangoro to be 40-50 tons. (6/7x normal Gorons size who weigh about 7 tons) Meh. The way I see it if Link, who can walk like he does with them, is in the 50 or 70 ton area 'at that time', Kain being a 100 tonner (thus making him around Links general strength when he uses them then) would have the same-ish movement as him. Unless their body strength % is completely different but I don't see a reason to think that.

At worst he would have a little less freedom.
I used 4/3 pi r^3 131

Neh, disagreed. Link overpowering Fyrus and walking on the magnetic floors alone puts him above Kain's proven strength level. (Which.. In reality, is just rounding Raziel's strength level up to account for lack of Kain's own feats.)

200 000 joules, IIRC. How this turned Kain into a 100 tonner, I have no idea, since it was agreed that Raziel's strength was enough for him to lift 45 tons over his head, Kain being slightly stronger would only be around a 60 tonner, tops.

Conversely, Link actually throws Dangoro, and overpowers Fyrus, proving, even at this early stage of the game, he is far stronger than Kain.

I have yet to see proof for Kain being a 100 tonner.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I have yet to see proof for Kain being a 100 tonner. SNIPED. In force.

Edit: Math says 48.9 tons for Kain. Might as well just call him a 50 tonner.

Yeah, Bloodrain, I think your formula would be incorrect. Length x Width X Height is like, surface area. You need volume. And frankly, it's just plain easier to to calculate his weight as a sphere.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Yeah, Bloodrain, I think your formula would be incorrect. Length x Width X Height is like, surface area. You need volume. And frankly, it's just plain easier to to calculate his weight as a sphere.

Length X Width X Height is the formula for Volume of a Cuboid >__>

Originally posted by ScreamPaste

200 000 joules, IIRC. How this turned Kain into a 100 tonner, I have no idea, since it was agreed that Raziel's strength was enough for him to lift 45 tons over his head, Kain being slightly stronger would only be around a 60 tonner, tops.



This.

Kain doesn't have 100 ton feats.

Oh yeah. >_>

<--- bad with mathematics.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
I used 4/3 pi r^3 131

Neh, disagreed. Link overpowering Fyrus and walking on the magnetic floors alone puts him above Kain's proven strength level. (Which.. In reality, is just rounding Raziel's strength level up to account for lack of Kain's own feats.)

200 000 joules, IIRC. How this turned Kain into a 100 tonner, I have no idea, since it was agreed that Raziel's strength was enough for him to lift 45 tons over his head, Kain being slightly stronger would only be around a 60 tonner, tops.

Conversely, Link actually throws Dangoro, and overpowers Fyrus, proving, even at this early stage of the game, he is far stronger than Kain.

Only sphere-like.

Tripping a biped isn't hard, but there's a time and place for that. Only said 100 tons 'cause you said 100 <.< then him being a 60 tonner, still wouldn't put him that far from Link. Either way that enforces the ''At worst he would have a little less freedom.'' remark.

Gonna look at this race as just that; What can Link or Link at 3/4 strength and clawed hands do.

@Moo/DP- Not really. The number from the increase is would be how much the volume is increased by, from multiplying Gorons weight by that number would show what a goron of Dangoros size would weight. He only resembles a sphere.

Originally posted by BloodRain


@Moo/DP- Not really. The number from the increase is would be how much the volume is increased by, from multiplying Gorons weight by that number would show what a goron of Dangoros size would weight. He only resembles a sphere.

Sorry, when did I disagree with what you did? >__>
I was just letting Moo know that LxWxH did in fact deal with Volume.

^^; My bad, didn't read your post right.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Only sphere-like.

Tripping a biped isn't hard, but there's a time and place for that. Only said 100 tons 'cause you said 100 <.< then him being a 60 tonner, still wouldn't put him that far from Link. Either way that enforces the ''At worst he would have a little less freedom.'' remark.

Gonna look at this race as just that; What can Link or Link at 3/4 strength and clawed hands do.

@Moo/DP- Not really. The number from the increase is would be how much the volume is increased by, from multiplying Gorons weight by that number would show what a goron of Dangoros size would weight. He only resembles a sphere.

It is when that Biped is a giant super strong rock, who's been made more giant and moar super strong.

Kain is not sitting on 3/4 of Link's strength, even this early on. To put it bluntly, the boots together weigh more than Kain could lift over his head with his entire body. (Around 70 tons, if we discount that they can shift the entire platform in the Dangoro fight as well.) For him to actually lift a single foot with more than half what his entire body can lift seems implausible to me.

Also, the magnetic floor on that platform has insane grip. The strength required to lift a foot would be atleast doubled, since the magnets are strogn enough to pull Link to the ceiling with the boots on. Link walks on these floors with the same easy he walks around normally. (Read, I have my doubts how much trouble the boots actually cause Link.)

If Dangoro weighed sixty tons, a neat comprimise, and Link threw him about 10 m/s, Link's strength that early in the game was atleast: 2 721 554 joules. Compared to Kain.
2 721 554
...200 000

Yeah. Let's go ahead and use your 50 tons.
2 267 961
...200 000

Nope, still way stronger. Using that number, Link's overhead lifting strength when he throws Dangoro is: 555.5 short tons... Yeah.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
It is when that Biped is a giant super strong rock, who's been made more giant and moar super strong.

Kain is not sitting on 3/4 of Link's strength, even this early on. To put it bluntly, the boots together weigh more than Kain could lift over his head with his entire body. (Around 70 tons, if we discount that they can shift the entire platform in the Dangoro fight as well.) For him to actually lift a single foot with more than half what his entire body can lift seems implausible to me.

Also, the magnetic floor on that platform has insane grip. The strength required to lift a foot would be atleast doubled, since the magnets are strogn enough to pull Link to the ceiling with the boots on. Link walks on these floors with the same easy he walks around normally. (Read, I have my doubts how much trouble the boots actually cause Link.)

If Dangoro weighed sixty tons, a neat comprimise, and Link threw him about 10 m/s, Link's strength that early in the game was atleast: 2 721 554 joules. Compared to Kain.
2 721 554
...200 000

Yeah. Let's go ahead and use your 50 tons.
2 267 961
...200 000

Nope, still way stronger. Using that number, Link's overhead lifting strength when he throws Dangoro is: 555.5 short tons... Yeah.

Still a biped, a slight shift in body weight trips rather easy.

I just realised this. Yeah, if Kain is a 60 tonner and the boots are at a weight above what his whole body can lift... he can still find a way to clear the first phase if nothing more imo.

Originally posted by NemeBro
If Link really only had 200 pounds added to his weight with the boots, I could pick him up and walk with him.

Hell, Bo is like seven feet tall if I recall right, with his muscle and fat build-up he may very well be approaching 400 pounds as it is.

If Bo is heavy enough to rival Dangoro's weight, who apparently is only 400 pounds, why would he need them for the smaller Gorons?

So could I....

Not sure where you got 7ft tall from...this is a probability, we dont actually knoiw his weight.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste

Edit: Math says 48.9 tons for Kain. Might as well just call him a 50 tonner.

your math says (very different to actual math) based on one block Raziel is a 50 tonner. Raziel can move two blocks just as easily using his body and arms and Kain can mandhandle Raziel with ease. Kains likely in the 100-200 range. A few hundred pounds on each foot would be easy.

@BloodRain:
I can agree with Kain potentially dragging himself forward a hundred meters, it might just mean he has to use his entuire body to help himself lift each foot for each step. Might be exhausted before the end of the first phase, though.

Eh, it's weight combined with the strength it would resist with make this feat particularly impressive. It's different from sneaking up on someone and snatching their leg, it's more like.. Well imagine trying to pull the leg of say, Andre the Giant from beneath him, and magnify this a million times.

Over 100 posts... O_O

Originally posted by Burning thought
So could I....

Not sure where you got 7ft tall from...this is a probability, we dont actually knoiw his weight.



your math says (very different to actual math) based on one block Raziel is a 50 tonner. Raziel can move two blocks just as easily using his body and arms and Kain can mandhandle Raziel with ease. Kains likely in the 100-200 range. A few hundred pounds on each foot would be easy. You'll note I'm a lot better at math than you are, and physics too. If you remember, I accounted for Raziel pushing those two blocks, know how fast he pushed them? Not very. If Raziel could lift 45 tons over head, he'd be able to push 100 tons slowly, so sayeth the mighty numbers. And all he did with the two blocks was that, push them slowly.


Lol@Kain being a 100-200 tonner.

Raziel does not have to push them fast to be able to beat their weight+friction, fact is Raziel is not that heavy so obviously doing it quickly at the angle he was doing it is impossible. He still pushed 100 tonnes, he still pushed against Kain with far more anger and proposed effort...who still with a movement of his arms threw Raziel back with ease and launched him across the room.

Kain is easily over 100 tonnes, if not nearer to 200 considering the great amount of ease.

Kains running with these boots on in canon terms, and walking easily through this gauntlet even in your fanon. I would like to see Link lifting your 70 tonnes boots on his legs through this gauntlet, it would be quite funny watching him tear his kneecaps off trying to move.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Raziel does not have to push them fast to be able to beat their weight+friction, fact is Raziel is not that heavy so obviously doing it quickly at the angle he was doing it is impossible. He still pushed 100 tonnes, he still pushed against Kain with far more anger and proposed effort...who still with a movement of his arms threw Raziel back with ease and launched him across the room.

Kain is easily over 100 tonnes, if not nearer to 200 considering the great amount of ease.

Kains running with these boots on in canon terms, and walking easily through this gauntlet even in your fanon. I would like to see Link lifting your 70 tonnes boots on his legs through this gauntlet, it would be quite funny watching him tear his kneecaps off trying to move.
Raziel cannot lift the two blocks over his head, and would probably kill himself if he tried.

Hell, he struggles shuffling just one.
http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo141/ShinTwist_ScreamPaste/razielexample.jpg

Furthermore: tons = short tons, = 2000 lbs. Tonnes = metric. Get it right.

And another thing; Kain caught an airborne Raziel. IE, no matter how strong Raziel is, he's still a human sized mass moving at relatively low speed.

Short, shuffly legs with that weight that only needs to lean forward without support.. it's say it could be in a peak humans potential to trip that.

If Kains a 200 tonner he'll be walking with 30% of his whole strength on his legs, 60% if he's a 100 tonner (with boots at 60 tons together). Just showing the scale. Will be hard.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Short, shuffly legs with that weight that only needs to lean forward without support.. it's say it could be in a peak humans potential to trip that.

If Kains a 200 tonner he'll be walking with 30% of his whole strength on his legs, 60% if he's a 100 tonner (with boots at 60 tons together). Just showing the scale. Will be hard.
http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/7021/326185-fyrus_large.jpg
No peak human is tripping this.

....Ok maybe not peak, but you only have to be stronger then one legs normal downwards stride strength.

You cannot be called a 100 tonner unless you are able to actually lift such a weight in some way.

Pushing it slowly is not sufficient.

And Fyrus is heavy enough such that when you trip him his arm alone is heavy enough to crush those pillars when he falls.

Originally posted by BloodRain
....Ok maybe not peak, but you only have to be stronger then one legs normal downwards stride strength. Keep in mind Dangoro's tiny spindly legs are strong enough to launch his gigantic ass fairly high, Fyrus is a larger, stronger, heavier, magicly enhanced super Goron that's ON FIYAH!

Tripping him is pretty awesome for something you do so early in your development.

Tripping him was difficult enough that it required the Iron Boots. I don't see a peak human doing anything but getting dragged around.

Link tripping Fyrus is pretty win. With all that height a lot of his weight is focused down into his legs, which basically means Link ripped something out from under whatever Fyrus weighs.

Not easy at all.

-stronger then one legs normal downwards stride strength.-
A child can trip a huge guy like that. It wouldn't take Goron tossing strength to do the same here.

Originally posted by BloodRain
-stronger then one legs normal downwards stride strength.-
A child can trip a huge guy like that. It wouldn't take Goron tossing strength to do the same here.

I think the kid would get trampled, man.

Just so you know I mean a kid with the same method can trip a large 'human' which is possible and has happened before.

Originally posted by BloodRain
-stronger then one legs normal downwards stride strength.-
A child can trip a huge guy like that. It wouldn't take Goron tossing strength to do the same here. No child on Earth could trip Andre the Giant unless he actively let them.

Keep in mind the size and strength of Fyrus, that he was actively resisting, and it's an awesome feat. Not relevant to this thread, but awesome. uhuh

so, we agree Kain stops before he so much as reaches a puddle, BloodRain?

Could so <.< the downwards strength of a normal stride isn't that great at all.

Urm unless someone comes with better info then I've got, yeah. He could get to the puddle but passing it is only possible with 100+ strength.

Here's a new question. Could Kain in the Heavy boots stop a rolling Goron?

Yes?

No?

I'm gonna go with no, and that comic pretty much says why. haermm

Aww, I've posted that comic at least twice in the other thread.

Awkward Zombie is always classic.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Here's a new question. Could Kain in the Heavy boots stop a rolling Goron?

Yes?

No?

I dont know, a normal one would be thrown by Kain with a backhanded swipe because it would be 100 tonnes+ hitting a few hundred pounds. Adding Kains claws, Kain slashes it in piecies so no, Kain could not stop it because he would be a bit too strong to do it effectively without killing the thing by accident. The boots are not required.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Raziel cannot lift the two blocks over his head, and would probably kill himself if he tried.

Hell, he struggles shuffling just one.
http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo141/ShinTwist_ScreamPaste/razielexample.jpg

Furthermore: tons = short tons, = 2000 lbs. Tonnes = metric. Get it right.

And another thing; Kain caught an airborne Raziel. IE, no matter how strong Raziel is, he's still a human sized mass moving at relatively low speed.

You cannot prove this, as Raziel never tried. And he probably would damage his material form, as his weight is not sufficiant to take that much on top of his body. LoK does not have toonforce to help it ignore things like that.

Theres no "struggles" at all, one push and he can send it sliding a few meters. The only thing that slows him down is his own weight.

Your refering to something thats unimportant, I am refering to him beating Raziels strength. His full strength, not his slight pushes that he uses on blocks which even then he can overpower.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste

so, we agree Kain stops before he so much as reaches a puddle

kain walks through it, its only 3 ft deep.