Killer Croc vs Captain America (Without Shield)

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Starscream M
Who wins?

Rage.Of.Olympus
Captain America makes him wish for the days he was fighting Batman.

I'm assuming this is Rogers. His the only Captain America I'll acknowledge.

Starscream M
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Captain America makes him wish for the days he was fighting Batman.

I'm assuming this is Rogers. His the only Captain America I'll acknowledge. yep, Rogers.

Dude, killer Croc is insanely strong and durable.

Rage.Of.Olympus
And? I've seen Captain America out punch U.S. Agent who's a Class 10 with supposedly decent fighting skills.

Starscream M
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
And? I've seen Captain America out punch U.S. Agent who's a Class 10 with supposedly decent fighting skills. us agent doesn't have killer croc's insane hf

Rage.Of.Olympus
Insane healing factor? erm

Wolverine has an insane healing factor. Killer Croc has enhanced healing. Unless he has had an upgrade.

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Insane healing factor? erm

Wolverine has an insane healing factor. Killer Croc has enhanced healing. Unless he has had an upgrade.

He has repaired spinal damage and regrown limbs over an extended period of time (he is a lizard after all... well... sometimes he is), but it isn't really fast enough to provide a sizable advantage during a fight.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
He has repaired spinal damage and regrown limbs over an extended period of time (he is a lizard after all... well... sometimes he is), but it isn't really fast enough to provide a sizable advantage during a fight.

I was aware about the spinal bit. Forgot about the limb regeneration though.

That's also my reasoning. I can't recall a fight where Killer Croc's healing ability was a prominent factor as it is for Wolverine or the Hulk for example. At least not any instances off the top of my head.

brownqk
CA

namorsubby
Does Croc still have the hush virus?

Wild Shadow
cap breaks his jaw with his 1st punch..

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
cap breaks his jaw with his 1st punch..

Why would Captain America punch himself in his own jaw? evil face

Wild Shadow
his= killer croc

Juk3n
If Batman takes croc without gear, then Rogers does too. smile

Warlord
Cap sons him

Bentley
Steve wtf stomps.

Bucky wins a healthy majority 131

Lord Feron
Originally posted by Warlord
Cap sons him

Martian_mind
I'm going with the one that wasn't beat down by Harvey Dent.

Starscream M
Originally posted by Martian_mind
I'm going with the one that wasn't beat down by Harvey Dent. what do you mean?

Deadline
The **** you think?

Starscream M
Originally posted by Deadline
The **** you think? wut?

Black bolt z
Originally posted by Starscream M
wut? Was cap beat down by harvey dent?Didn't think so....

IMO kroc doesn't get enough credit(even for a class like....5)but cap takes a solid majority.

Deadline
Originally posted by Starscream M
wut?

Cap wins obvously.

Starscream M
Originally posted by Deadline
Cap wins obvously. he doesn't have his shield. how does he win?

Bentley
Originally posted by Starscream M
he doesn't have his shield. how does he win?

Stomping Killer Croc's head into the ground.

namorsubby
lol.

Black bolt z
Originally posted by Starscream M
he doesn't have his shield. how does he win? You know his shiled isn't a part of his body right?Hes better then batman as far as skills go and will stomp croc.

namorsubby
Originally posted by Black bolt z
You know his shiled isn't a part of his body right? Hes better then batman as far as skills go and will stomp croc. why would you say that?

Black bolt z
Originally posted by namorsubby
why would you say that? Batman is just an uber skilled human.Cap was biologically/genetically enhanced.

namorsubby
Originally posted by Black bolt z
Batman is just an uber skilled human.Cap was biologically/genetically enhanced. How does that translate into being more skilled?

Only difference between Bruce and Steve:

Steve was a weakling who took super-steriods to reach the peak of human potential.

Bruce was a weakling who trained and worked to the peak of human perfection.

"peak of human perfection" and "peak of human potential", I don't know how anyone distinguishes which is superior, but many have for the latter. I guess they figure since Steve's juiced like Slade, he's "enhanced". In a sense he certainly is, but IMO a different sense, and not the "enhanced" that is used in the categorizing of power rankings.

khazra
This isnt even close. Rogers destroys him. He's Ko'd Rhino for example, Croc is no problem.

Battlehammer
Originally posted by namorsubby
How does that translate into being more skilled?

Only difference between Bruce and Steve:

Steve was a weakling who took super-steriods to reach the peak of human potential.

Bruce was a weakling who trained and worked to the peak of human perfection.

"peak of human perfection" and "peak of human potential", I don't know how anyone distinguishes which is superior, but many have for the latter. I guess they figure since Steve's juiced like Slade, he's "enhanced". In a sense he certainly is, but IMO a different sense, and not the "enhanced" that is used in the categorizing of power rankings.
You dont get it, Capt as good as humans will ever become he what humans may one day evolve into which is a concept you seem unable to grasp.

This has been true sinces he came out which is why it the super soldier serum and not the peak of human perfection program.

No human can achieve capt level through training he is enhanced beyond that.

same reason who people put power dampers on him. if he was simply peak of human such dampers would do nothing to him.

namorsubby
Originally posted by Battlehammer
You dont get it, Capt as good as humans will ever become he what humans may one day evolve into which is a concept you seem unable to grasp.

This has been true sinces he came out which is why it the super soldier serum and not the peak of human perfection program.

No human can achieve capt level through training he is enhanced beyond that.

same reason who people put power dampers on him. if he was simply peak of human such dampers would do nothing to him.

I can scarcely understand you, BH. The concept is fine.


"peak of human potential" doesn't mean next step in "evolution", I've heard Cap refered to before as if he were, but it was hyberbole, like calling Batman "the most dangerous man in the world" or "unbeatable", which he has been refered to as. many have.

Cap is as good as a human can be in all areas, yes.
Therefore Cap has qualities that no one seems to have, because no human is perfect, right?(it may have something to do with the fact that these are comics, as well.).

Well, Batman "has trained to the peak of human perfection". I don't see how the fact that in a completely seperate comic universe it is the common view that no one can train to that level, because in DC, you can, and Bruce did.

edit:

I admit, marvel seems to take the more "realistic" approach. Training to perfection in most likely not possible in the real world, but neither is half the stuff any human does in comics

Battlehammer
Originally posted by namorsubby
I can scarcely understand you, BH. The concept is fine.


"peak of human potential" doesn't mean next step in "evolution", I've heard Cap refered to before as if he were, but it was hyberbole, like calling Batman "the most dangerous man in the world" or "unbeatable", which he has been refered to as. many have.

it not hyperbole, it wa sstated write when he came out, that he was the next step in human evolution. He beyond what any human can become, which is something you dont seem able to grasp, you cant train to get to his level, this is a fact.

Originally posted by namorsubby
Cap is as good as a human can be in all areas, yes.
Therefore Cap has qualities that no one seems to have, because no human is perfect, right?(it may have something to do with the fact that these are comics, as well.).
again he as good as humans will one day become, wtf don't you get? there a reason why people need to put dampers on him and he can friggin take bullets to the skull.

Originally posted by namorsubby
Well, Batman "has trained to the peak of human perfection". I don't see how the fact that in a completely seperate comic universe it is the common view that no one can train to that level, because in DC, you can, and Bruce did.
DD did that too, DD is a peak human, but he still admitts capts simply better, DD as strong/fast ect as human can become but he still a step behind capt. Hell in a cross over batman even admitts capt edges him in every area. That he simply better. This again was to nod at the fact capt is enahnced.

Darth Martin
Originally posted by Black bolt z
Hes better then batman as far as skills go Based on what?

namorsubby
Originally posted by Battlehammer
it not hyperbole, it wa sstated write when he came out, that he was the next step in human evolution. He beyond what any human can become, which is something you dont seem able to grasp, you cant train to get to his level, this is a fact.


again he as good as humans will one day become, wtf don't you get? there a reason why people need to put dampers on him and he can friggin take bullets to the skull.


DD did that too, DD is a peak human, but he still admitts capts simply better, DD as strong/fast ect as human can become but he still a step behind capt. Hell in a cross over batman even admitts capt edges him in every area. That he simply better. This again was to nod at the fact capt is enahnced.

you can't train to perfection in the MU, it's "unrealistic". DCU, different universe, different story. Batman trained to human perfection, which can be interpreted in all sort of ways, but I figure if you're humanly perfect, you're as good as a human can be.

You say "power dampener" as if Cap has some superpower that needed to be supressed. Weren't they just weight, when he got shot, I mean Real humans have taken bullets to the skull and survived. Obie Trice was shot in the head, retained consciousness, checked himself into the hospital, and checked himself out a few hours later with the bullet still in his skull.

DD must be as fast and strong as a trained human can become in the MU, which is not human perfection.

Batman has said or even implied no such thing in any crossover, ever. This I know for a fact.

This infamous misconception was born out of this innocent statement from Bruce to Steve:

"It is possible that you could beat me, avenger, but it would take a long time"

completely irrelevant and totally not in support of the "concept"

edit:

Some scans that support your argument that Cap is evolved and enhanced past "human" levels, would immediately result in my concession, honestly.

BattleMage
"It is possible that you could beat me, avenger, but it would take a long time"

He still acknowledge that Cap was the better man. And is he not the worlds greatest Detective? I honestly think he detected That he was about to get his a** whipped!

Cap vs Croc Cap 100/10 yes

Bentley
Batman started training at what age, 8? 6?

Imagine what would've happened if he had started earlier, the anwer would be he would be better than he is, then the idea of him training to perfection is a fallacy. Batman is the best anyone can be and then some, by being Bruce Wayne. He's still Bruce Wayne and is still limited to Bruce.

Captain's serum erased the "Steve Rogers" part of his limitation, he became more than Steve could really be, no matter if he trained everything in his life, he's just beyond himself, beyond human.

Darth Martin
Foolish logic. Could and long time somehow translate to Cap's victory?

Batman is the more dangerous opponent for Croc. He's smarter than Cap, every bit a good an in-battle tactitian, applies better use of stealth, and carries a much more versatile arsenal of equipment. Not to mention he's dealt with Croc countless times.

Here, Cap is without his only weapon.

BattleMage
Cap is a weapon!

Darth Martin
And Batman isn't, even moreso?

Wild Shadow
bats carries all those gadgets and suit b/c he is just that a man... cap is still cap without the costume and shield

Deadline
Originally posted by namorsubby
I can scarcely understand you, BH. The concept is fine.


"peak of human potential" doesn't mean next step in "evolution", I've heard Cap refered to before as if he were, but it was hyberbole, like calling Batman "the most dangerous man in the world" or "unbeatable", which he has been refered to as. many have.


No it isn't Brubaker has used that term to describe he most defintely wasn't talking in hyperbole. Batman is not that.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Foolish logic. Could and long time somehow translate to Cap's victory?



Busiek confirmed that Batman mean't Cap was superior.

Juk3n
Originally posted by namorsubby
Batman trained to human perfection, which can be interpreted in all sort of ways, but I figure if you're humanly perfect, you're as good as a human can be.


Batman isnt humanly perfect, he's not faster than Casandra Cain, and he doesn't have better agility then Nightwing. Is he even as strong as Bane sans venom? Cap is, Cap is, and Cap is. There are no non-enhanced humans (or ones that don't have a special gift or brain function ie; mister x or taskmaster) better then Captain America physically. It's just the way it is.

Martian_mind
Originally posted by Deadline
No it isn't Brubaker has used that term to describe he most defintely wasn't talking in hyperbole. Batman is not that.



Busiek confirmed that Batman mean't Cap was superior.

Then he should have written it in the script. Writers come and go, and one writers opinion isn't anywhere near definitive.



Also, lol at mean't.

Deadline
Originally posted by Martian_mind
Then he should have written it in the script. Writers come and go, and one writers opinion isn't anywhere near definitive.



Also, lol at mean't.


He should have written it in script? Except if he had done that people would have said it was hyperbole and nows hes actually said it it doesn't matter. Hes a respected writer who has written for both Cap and Batman.

Im pretty sure though stuff like that has been said in comics many times.

Deadline
The whole point about the SSS is that you can't reach that level through training or its highly unlikely. Cap is unique Batman isn't.

Martian_mind
Originally posted by Deadline
He should have written it in script? Except if he had done that people would have said it was hyperbole and nows hes actually said it it doesn't matter. Hes a respected writer who has written for both Cap and Batman.

Im pretty sure though stuff like that has been said in comics many times.


People would argue the point because there is literally hundreds of feats that can be used to argue against it. It doesn't matter how respected he is, his opinion is not the be-all-end-all of the discussion.

Warlord
I agree...a writers opinion means little to characters that go back decades.

as foe me: Cap slightly>Bats>>Croc

Bentley
In any case Busiek did implied Batman would lose, simply because arrogant as he is, Bruce pretty much conceeded defeat when he said Steve "could beat him". Of course, when things are just implied you could argue otherwise, as you could argue the canonicity of the whole event, but the idea is not far from the truth, even in a canon comic Batman would be fighting an uphill battle against Cap, as Steve is made of PIS itself.

Warlord
Originally posted by Bentley
Steve is made of PIS itself.

Careful now son mad

Juk3n
Originally posted by Bentley
Steve is made of WIN itself.

thumb up

Deadline
Originally posted by Martian_mind
People would argue the point because there is literally hundreds of feats that can be used to argue against it.

No really there isn't, unless you think that him getting hurt by punches disproves it. Hes not Kryptonian, hes the next step in human evolution and not some god.

Originally posted by Martian_mind

It doesn't matter how respected he is, his opinion is not the be-all-end-all of the discussion.

I guess not but hes not 'some' writer and what he said was pretty much consistent with Caps history.

Darth Martin
Let's simply start this off with: Crossovers are not canon. So why even bring them up? Whether or not JLA/Avengers is considered it, I am not sure. The Marvel vs. DC ones aren't however.

Originally posted by Deadline
Busiek confirmed that Batman mean't Cap was superior. Cap is the slight physical specimen. Batman's arsenal>Cap's shield. In all of the crossovers' with the two fighting, I have yet to see Batman employ any "real" equipment. In a fight on the forums, he would.

Cap could beat him. Big deal. Batman could(and IMO would) defeat Cap also.Originally posted by Juk3n
Batman isnt humanly perfect, he's not faster than Casandra Cain, and he doesn't have better agility then Nightwing. Is he even as strong as Bane sans venom? Cap is, Cap is, and Cap is. There are no non-enhanced humans (or ones that don't have a special gift or brain function ie; mister x or taskmaster) better then Captain America physically. It's just the way it is. I agree with everything you have stated here. But, with that said, I don't think it guarantees Cap's victory. Both of these guys fight people who are physically superior to them all the time. I'm of the opinion that Batman is more skilled in the martial arts department. Again, only a slight edge. Just like Cap's slight physical edge.

Another point I'd like to bring up: Cap is supposed to be the be-all-end-all GOAT human specimen, correct? Take Daredevil and Black Panther(sans recent upgrades). Black Panther is generally acknowledged as Cap's physical equal, more or less. Panther employs his speed and agility alot more than I've seen from Cap. The same goes for Daredevil, however this guy isn't considered peak human(or atleast on Cap's level). Is Daredevil equal(or superior even) to Cap in the speed and agility department? He uses them far more. If he is, does he get credited by his senses making him this way?

My point is you would be hard pressed to come up with an agility feat from Cap that someone like Daredevil, Panther, or even Dick Grayson couldn't match.

I could say the same for Batman when it comes to physical strength. You would hard pressed to bring me a scan of Cap's that I couldn't match with Batman......in that area. "Cap has superior stamina." We've heard Alfred tell Bruce that he has been fighting crime without rest for 4 days.

Captain America has fought Wolverine a couple of times and Wolverine's superhuman stats have never seemed to overwhelm Cap. If anything did, it'd be his claws, healing, or ferocity itself.

My point is that if Wolverine holds certain(if not all) physical advantages over Cap and they weren't enough to decide the fight, then why would Cap's certain(if not all) physical edges be that decisive of a factor?

Food for thought.

Bentley
You just convinced me that T'challa should be bumped up in the martial art tiers thread shifty

Juk3n
Originally posted by Darth Martin


Captain America has fought Wolverine a couple of times and Wolverine's superhuman stats have never seemed to overwhelm Cap. If anything did, it'd be his claws, healing, or ferocity itself.

My point is that if Wolverine holds certain(if not all) physical advantages over Cap and they weren't enough to decide the fight, then why would Cap's certain(if not all) physical edges be that decisive of a factor?

Food for thought.

Good point, and i acknowledge it, but follow me on this 'skill advantage train ' for a sec, let me try and convince you.

the supposed matial arts skill edge is almost nullified when faced with the simple question of effectiveness. Batman knows 127 styles 'or so were told', MASTERED? i wont buy that, but proficient training in alot of them, sure id buy that. Cap too knows alot of styles, but he's proficient in his own unique blend of EFFICIENT forms (mastered over a timespan twice that of Batman i might add).
Will Batman start using 'Drunken Boxing' or 'Crane style Kung-Fu' in a fight with an opponent who is (albeit marginally, but still) faster, stronger, has limitless stamina (when facing someone not rocking him with Ironman class blows, ie a human), and is more agile, and who can see bullets as they fly reactions?

Would that be efficient for Batman to do this against Cap here?

There are only so many ways to keep up efficieiency in a fight, only a few ways to throw an effective punch against someone just as skilled. Batmans slight skill advantage wont even come into play because of this simple truth...What (in terms of combat and martial prowess, or striking techniques or whatever) is he going to throw at Steve, that Steve has NEVER encountered before, or would be likely unable to deal with? Steve has fought his share of masters exotic forms of martial arts in his career.

So if a kick is a kick, and a punch is a punch, id bet on the guy with the better stats. I might also add that id put Daredevils gearless martial prowess right up there with Batman, especially in specific areas of Nerve and Pressure point stuff, with the added bonus of being slightly faster than Batman and more agile, Cap still son'd him. I know ABC doesn't fly here but that might count for something if we use it in a 'dealt with exotic and unique blends of martial and pjhysical prowess' similar to what he might expect when facing a MA knowledgeable opponent like Batman, no?

Darth Martin
I understand your point and have heard it before. Cap isn't as formerly trained and doesn't employ foreign martial arts as much as someone like Daredevil, Iron Fist, Batman, or Shang Chi would. But he, like Wolverine(when he actually uses skill), usually do what's effective. They employ a more military oriented combat system. Granted.

I still mantain that Batman is the more skilled fighter as he's faced IMO the more formal martial artists that his universe just happens to provide. He's done well against Shiva, Batgirl, and Karate Kid. In these fights he hasn't used his arsenal, which again I must stress, is much more versatile than the shield. You want to talk SSS, Batman has done well against Bane and Deathstroke too. They've kicked his ass, sure, he's returned them the favor too.

Originally posted by Juk3n
I might also add that id put Daredevils gearless martial prowess right up there with Batman, especially in specific areas of Nerve and Pressure point stuff, with the added bonus of being slightly faster than Batman and more agile, Cap still son'd him. This I am curious about however. When you say "Cap still son'd him", am I correct in assuming you are referring to him defeating Daredevil? When? Scans, please?

And I do agree with you that Daredevil and Batman are relatively close in the martial arts department as far as knowledge and ability goes. As I stated in the devoted thread, Daredevil is faster and more agile. Batman is more durable and stronger.

namorsubby
Originally posted by Juk3n
Batman isnt humanly perfect, he's not faster than Casandra Cain, and he doesn't have better agility then Nightwing. Is he even as strong as Bane sans venom? Cap is, Cap is, and Cap is. There are no non-enhanced humans (or ones that don't have a special gift or brain function ie; mister x or taskmaster) better then Captain America physically. It's just the way it is. Bane sans venom = enhanced.

Grayson is acrobatic, that's his thing.

Cassie is a bullet timer, she utilizes speed moreso than Bruce.

Although I know there's no way you could prove Steve has better agility than Grayson or is faster than Cassie, I'll ask you this:

When have these things been outright stated? I've heard sayings like "so and so may be faster than Bruce, or something similar to that, but the fact that those characters have their own style which emphasizes certain physical attributes doesn't mean that they outmatch Bruce in that certain physical aspect. In fact, I'm willing to bet that Bruce has better speed/agility/reaction feats than them both.

Daredevil1
Cap puts him down "easily" most of the time.

Daredevil1
Originally posted by Deadline
No it isn't Brubaker has used that term to describe he most defintely wasn't talking in hyperbole.




Agreed. It was in a series were Cap origin was retold and the good doctor himself stated Cap was the next step in human evolution.

Which would explain why Cap has been called by the Doc himself another time "A man unlike the world has never seen before."

Batman will never be this.(The last one shows Cap healing a bullet to the head in 12 minutes.)

Healing/Recovery feats

Cap's hands are burnt bad in the fires. They'll heal once were out of here.
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/9479/captainamerica23503gz0.jpg
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/983/captainamerica23504lb9.jpg

Cap got burned from alien tech. "Amazing his burns are already healing".
http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/8403/captainamericatowozp01zhu7.jpg

Bullet to the shoulder no worries for Cap. "I heal fast" "I'm built that way"
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/8254/camedusaeffect047te3.jpg

Cap handles poison.
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/9079/capamericav135902roughelb5.jpg
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/3644/capamericav135903rougheyz9.jpg
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/7200/capamericav135904rougheme7.jpg

Was offered paramedics for being in a bad explosion. Cap's answer "not necessary"
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/1355/captainamerica373p05py4.jpg

Cap takes a thrashing from Namor. Namor impressed how quickly Cap recovers.
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/3066/captainamerica42319yz3.jpg
(Cap was going to go another round with Namor later on)
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/7059/captainamerica42323bn3.jpg

A alien agent was affecting many including super humans like She-Hulk, but not Captain America.
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/4048/wca04914ml6.jpg

An aging formula that makes you old an die affect Cap and the Red Skull. It eventually killed off RS as he couldn't handle a fight with Cap(Red Skull didn't have a cloned body of Cap yet.) But Cap mentions the SSS is what is keeping him alive despite it rapidly aging him.
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/4213/captainamerica301p10wy0.jpg

A process to turn men into perfect woman was tried on Captain America and superhuman Paladin. Notice there more worried about Captain America.
http://img376.imageshack.us/img376/6816/captainamerica391ocd02bz0.jpg
(his mental acuity is drastically decreased but she's still worried about Cap)
http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/7945/captainamerica391ocd04fb8.jpg
(SSS could resist it. Near toxic levels, increase the level.)
http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/9431/captainamerica391ocd10ae5.jpg
(Enough sedative to kill a horse but not Cap)
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/9523/captainamerica391ocd11ph8.jpg
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/5682/captainamerica391ocd12kq1.jpg
http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/4527/captainamerica391ocd13sd1.jpg


Again a lethal virus created by the Red Skull. It killed more then 1000's and affected She Hulk badly as it put others like Scott(Cyclops) in medical care. Cap was exposed to it throughout most of Black Panthers/Ironmans fight with Skull.
http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/8396/avengersv306520rougherow4.jpg
http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/3049/avengersv306806rougherlh8.jpg
http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/1853/avgrs6908ng4.jpg
http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/8633/avgrs6918to1.jpg
http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/9521/avgrs6919ik8.jpg
http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/7321/avgrs6920hg7.jpg
http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/4886/avengersv307005rougherpi0.jpg
http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/7585/avengersv307016roughergl9.jpg

Remember the punishment Cap took in Civil War he recovers rather quickly for his rematch with Ironman.
http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/540/scan0017fm7.jpg
http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/8685/scan0007sv2.jpg
And hear Cap looks healthy despite what he took previous as he even has the advantage on "Extremis" Ironman. Tony's even down and puking.
http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/4513/scan0037tb6.jpg

Bullet to the head lots of blood splattered. Doc even called time of death for Cap.
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/4069/capfalcon1310fr2.jpg
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/9591/capfalcon1318je2.jpg
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/7548/page003004sn5.jpg

namorsubby
Being considered "human" for all intents and purposes certainly doesn't stop a character from displaying seemingly superhuman attributes. I could easily post feats of Batman that seem to suggest he has super durablity, healing, speed, stamina......anything, you name it.

grimify
Originally posted by Starscream M
Who wins?

I like how this is turning into a Batman vs Cap thread. There's a large one of those already in existence, and it will never reach any consensus. Batman has feats to match anything you post for Cap, including accelerated healing using spiritual techniques.

That being said, Cap wins.

Daredevil1
So by your logic Batman is Slade level..............LOL.

Good job. And no I doubt you will find Batman healing feats that match Cap's.

Heck Cap strength feats are = or better then Slades. Your logic is highly illogical.

namorsubby
Batman isn't equall to Slade, but that's okay, because Cap isn't equal to Slade. He has a real superhuman healing factor, real superhuman reflexes and strength, and superhuman senses......all of which Steve does not have.

Daredevil1
Slade isn't equal to Cap. Cap has a real evolved human healing. The guy is the next step in human evo. A real super man with all enhanced stats across the board.

Cap strength feats are better then Slade and a enhanced mind and senses to boot.

LOL you logic right back at you. Batman isn't equal to Cap.

grimify
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Batman isn't equal to Cap.

You're right... he's superior. smile

Daredevil1
With the JLA helping yeah. wink

namorsubby
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Slade isn't equal to Cap. Cap has a real evolved human healing. The guy is the next step in human evo. A real super man with all enhanced stats across the board.

Cap strength feats are better then Slade and a enhanced mind and senses to boot.

LOL you logic right back at you. Batman isn't equal to Cap. lol, those little so-called healing feats you presented couldn't hold a candle to Slade's HF.

Steve Rogers is not evolved, he's juiced, like a bodybuilder and/or meth junkie, but better.

no, they're not, but okay.

"enhanced mind"? you mean like slade who uses 9x more brain power than humanly possible? no, of course not.

"enhanced senses" You mean he can see ant-man when he's microscopic? because Slade can see Atom. I bet he can detect shifts in the earth too right? yeah, sure.lol

"enhanced stats across the board"? yeah, that's why all of his stats are categorized within human level, instead of low meta, like Slade.

Yeah, they're exactly alike.

Wild Shadow
the one time BS of slade seeing atom is the only example you have for slades superior senses.. its BS and you know it no way in hell will giving some 9x superior eyesight would allow for that sh#$...

slade using 90% of his brain is also a choke b/c in real life he be retarded.. but lets say we give him 9X the mental boost of your average human what does that mean in comics its vague for a reason b/c you cant really attribute much to it.. slade has yet to do anything impressive to show of his 9x brain boost tha some one like cap hasnt done himself..

caps neural kinetics allow him to track bullets in flight obviously that is far above the normal peak human brain capacity,, is it 9x i dont know but neither has slades shtcik ever bn explained..

and slade sensing terra moving the earth beneath him isnt that impressive either something cap can do just as easily and doesnt even require super senses

grimify
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
t
caps neural kinetics allow him to track bullets in flight obviously that is far above the normal peak human brain capacity,, is it 9x i dont know but neither has slades shtcik ever bn explained..


if being able to react a bullet after it's fired is above peak human... why do so many street level humans do it?

namorsubby
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
the one time BS of slade seeing atom is the only example you have for slades superior senses.. its BS and you know it no way in hell will giving some 9x superior eyesight would allow for that sh#$...

slade using 90% of his brain is also a choke b/c in real life he be retarded.. but lets say we give him 9X the mental boost of your average human what does that mean in comics its vague for a reason b/c you cant really attribute much to it.. slade has yet to do anything impressive to show of his 9x brain boost tha some one like cap hasnt done himself..

caps neural kinetics allow him to track bullets in flight obviously that is far above the normal peak human brain capacity,, is it 9x i dont know but neither has slades shtcik ever bn explained..

and slade sensing terra moving the earth beneath him isnt that impressive either something cap can do just as easily and doesnt even require super senses

There's more than one instance that diplays Slade's obviously superior senses, although I must say the fact that they are increased a thousandfold(self-stated) should speak for itself.

And who said because his brain capacity is 9x human level that his eyesight is limited to that as well? Why on earth would you even assume that?

lol, I always love when people try to use that arguement. Slade uses 90% of his brain capacity, humans use 10% of theirs. Someone somewhere once interpreted that to mean that Slade only uses 90% of a regular human's brain capacity, which would make him slow I guess. Either way, it's moronic.......read the text right people, and then you can make jokes concerning whatever inaccuracies you find in it.

amplified brain capacity is essentially what accounts for him being able to engage groups simultaneously, even without prep, which he has done several times. He can strategize his actions during a conflict better than most can do prep.

consistently taken on super-teams close combat, Cap hasn't done, BTW.

Many human characters are bullet timers, Cassandra would be an example. Elektra,Lady Shiva, etc. If you are trying to say that Steve has some sort of super-senss that enables him to dodge bullets, you'll have to provide some proof.

When the hell has Cap "detected subtle shifts in the earth", like the moving of tectonic plates? Why then, would you claim that is something Cap could easily do? This is the crap I'm talking about. Cap has never done a similar feat, but somehow you figure he can easily do it, and it's not that impressive? "You must be thinking this is something like simply feeling the ground move beneath him. no, not at all, Steve couldn't pull it off unless he had his senses increased a thousandfold like Slade.

edit:

Slade is immortal. Slade has a healing factor. Slade has superhuman senses and brainpower, not to mention reflexes,durability, and strength. Slade is obviously a meta because he has actual powers, Steve doesn't. Therefore it makes sense that Deathstroke is a low-meta while Cap is not. In other words, they're not equal. The only way someone doesn't get that is if they choose not to. period.

Juk3n
Butthurt replys are derailing the thread.
Back on topic or i'll...just, er...have to moan some more!

If Slade can beat Croc without gear, then so can Cap.

Wild Shadow
http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/Deathstroke91/ntt039-14.jpg

http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/Deathstroke91/ntt039-13.jpg

sigh.. sensing the shift of the earth isnt that impressive like i said any street lvler worth his salt could do the same and some have without being all traumatic and talking about how amplified their senses are well except maybe DD

and on your cap dismissin comment cap actually states to see the bullet other heroes dont see it in flight but rather anticipate its trajectory from their opponents movement

namorsubby
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/Deathstroke91/ntt039-14.jpg

http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/Deathstroke91/ntt039-13.jpg

sigh.. sensing the shift of the earth isnt that impressive like i said any street lvler worth his salt could do the same and some have without being all traumatic and talking about how amplified their senses are well except maybe DD

and on your cap dismissin comment cap actually states to see the bullet other heroes dont see it in flight but rather anticipate its trajectory from their opponents movement

1.What did posting that even prove? The feats in my thread, I've seen it.

2. I don't get how you don't understand that Slade is using his super-senses to detect tectonic movement, and no street leveler has done the same or can unless they have superhuman senses, which DD does BTW.

3. Cap dimissing? I simply asked that if you were trying to say Steve uses super-senses to track bullets to prove it.

Many characters that are human are bullet-timers, like I said. It's nothing unique only to Cap.

Daredevil1
Originally posted by namorsubby
lol, those little so-called healing feats you presented couldn't hold a candle to Slade's HF.

Steve Rogers is not evolved, he's juiced, like a bodybuilder and/or meth junkie, but better.

no, they're not, but okay.

"enhanced mind"? you mean like slade who uses 9x more brain power than humanly possible? no, of course not.

"enhanced senses" You mean he can see ant-man when he's microscopic? because Slade can see Atom. I bet he can detect shifts in the earth too right? yeah, sure.lol

"enhanced stats across the board"? yeah, that's why all of his stats are categorized within human level, instead of low meta, like Slade.

Yeah, they're exactly alike.


Enhanced mind that lets him recall 1000 years on military strategy or what was referenced as a Eidetic memory. Or lets him mind capable of mastering a alien martial art that other masters take decades in mastering? You mean that type of enhanced mind....LOL.

You mean low meta as in below true superhuman...LOL like Slade. Even Static Shock is a meta and yet he doesn't have superhuman strength. Oh wait Slade's strength has never been reference this huh?

"Preternatural" huh? Cap has look up the definition some time.

Lets face it your ignoring big time Cap/Slade strength comparisons and for good reason. Cap has feats of his ICBM shield throw, to breaking out of cryogenic freeze, to even impressing Thor/Ironman with his own strength. You do know that Cap's SSS healing even kept up with Logan in drinking. Yeah Slade is so off the charts compared to Cap..................not.

Daredevil1
Also Slade elaborated on Shifting earth to it being shifting ground...LOL.

Shows your exaggerating some of his feats. Heck Cap has sensed the air vibrations in the air against BlackPanther in COC when they fought. To even speak of being able to see faster and slow down time in WW2 fights against the aliens. So again your Slade superiority is even less then what you thought it was to begin with.

Only I don't use these feats to categorize Cap as some be all and end all. Like you try to put Slade on that pedistal and end up failing.

Wild Shadow
thats what i was pointing out any street lvler can sense the ground moving for an incoming attack especially when the ground is shifting and what not and vibrating.. my point was that he was blowing it out of proportion

namorsubby
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Enhanced mind that lets him recall 1000 years on military strategy or what was referenced as a Eidetic memory. Or lets him mind capable of mastering a alien martial art that other masters take decades in mastering? You mean that type of enhanced mind....LOL.

You mean low meta as in below true superhuman...LOL like Slade. Even Static Shock is a meta and yet he doesn't have superhuman strength. Oh wait Slade's strength has never been reference this huh?

"Preternatural" huh? Cap has look up the definition some time.

Lets face it your ignoring big time Cap/Slade strength comparisons and for good reason. Cap has feats of his ICBM shield throw, to breaking out of cryogenic freeze, to even impressing Thor/Ironman with his own strength. You do know that Cap's SSS healing even kept up with Logan in drinking. Yeah Slade is so off the charts compared to Cap..................not.

1.What are you lol-ing about? That doesn't make his mind superhuman, at least not in comics. Batman has feats like that, but Slade's mind is truly superhuman, and stated so, Cap's is not. Next....

2. no, not below true superhuman, that's human, like Cap.

That's what you don't seem to get. Let's say Slade=Cap physically, he'd still be low-meta and not Cap. The guy has powers for christ's sake. That being said, Slade does top him physically, and he has been referenced with super-strength. Pick up a slade comic, he's a meta.

His strength is preternatural, because he's juiced. that's not natural at all.lol

I'm not ignoring anything. You keep saying Cap is stronger, I simply disagree due to the fact that it's not true.

You're truly out of your mind if you think Cap could really press Ironman's or Thor's strength or take a feat like that seriously.

On the other hand, Slade has fought with class 100's mano e mano and inflicting damage with his bare hands. He made Donna Troy(wonder woman) bleed with a punch. He's stronger than Steve.

Cap's "healing factor" is no where near logan's or even Slade's. not even close.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Also Slade elaborated on Shifting earth to it being shifting ground...LOL.

Shows your exaggerating some of his feats. Heck Cap has sensed the air vibrations in the air against BlackPanther in COC when they fought. To even speak of being able to see faster and slow down time in WW2 fights against the aliens. So again your Slade superiority is even less then what you thought it was to begin with.

Only I don't use these feats to categorize Cap as some be all and end all. Like you try to put Slade on that pedistal and end up failing.

you guys are so thick.

I know what Slade said, I posted the feat. Thing is, he detect subtle shifts with his super-senses. I don't know how you guys can't understand that that wouldn't be possible without his enhanced senses.

he sensed air vibrations in the air? WTF? that statement amounts to nothing, whatsoever. please be more precise when explaining a "feat".

he sees faster and slows down time? again, I'm gonna need you to be more precise, actually why don't you just post the feat?

Daredevil1
subtle shifts of the ground....LOL. Seriously you just lost all credibility in this thread.

namorsubby
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
thats what i was pointing out any street lvler can sense the ground moving for an incoming attack especially when the ground is shifting and what not and vibrating.. my point was that he was blowing it out of proportion
Originally posted by Daredevil1
subtle shifts of the ground....LOL. Seriously you just lost all credibility in this thread.

Subtle shifts only detectable through super-senses. earth shifts all the time, can you sense it? no, because it's not in the sense that you're mistaking it for. If Slade didn't have those powers, he couldn't sense it. You guys can't be too dense to understand that, can you?

Deadline
Originally posted by namorsubby



he senseds air vibrations in the air? WTF? that statement amounts to nothing, whatsoever. please be more precise when explaining a "feat".

he sees faster and slows down time? again, I'm gonna need you to be more precise, actually why don't you just post the feat?


Lets translate that.

Namorsubby: Wait did you actually say that Cap could detect air vibrations? Thats actually more impressive then sensing subtle vibrations in the earth, i'lll just pretend not to understand it.

Anyway there you go. This feat > yours.

http://img183.imageshack.us/f/bpcap1iq1.jpg/


Originally posted by namorsubby
Subtle shifts only detectable through super-senses. earth shifts all the time, can you sense it? no, because it's not in the sense that you're mistaking it for. If Slade didn't have those powers, he couldn't sense it. You guys can't be too dense to understand that, can you?

Im afraid hes right. You guys are being dense its not as impressive though as the Cap feat.

namorsubby
Originally posted by Deadline
Lets translate that.

Namorsubby: Wait did you actually say that Cap could detect air vibrations? Thats actually more impressive then sensing subtle vibrations in the earth, i'lll just pretend not to understand it.

Anyway there you go. This feat > yours.

http://img183.imageshack.us/f/bpcap1iq1.jpg/




Im afraid hes right. You guys are being dense its not as impressive though as the Cap feat. lol, He felt the air whiff by as he leapt? That's what constitutes Cap's super-human senses?

This is just one example I was trying to stress the meaning of to a couple of boobs BTW, Slade has many examples of super-senses. Seeing the atom instance. His senses are increased a thousandfold

bottom line:

Slade has better super-senses than Cap, because he actually has super-senses, while Steve does not.

Deadline
Originally posted by namorsubby
lol, He felt the air whiff by as he leapt? That's what constitutes Cap's super-human senses?

This is just one example I was trying to stress the meaning of to a couplde of boobs BTW, Slade has many examples of super-senses. Seeing the atom instance. His senses are increased a thousandfold

So when Captain America descibed a change in air patterns you think what Cap mean't there was a whiff of air and he detected it? You don't think then we he described it as air patterns he was trying to imply how subtle it was.


So the writer is just a liar and hes using technical jargon for something that wasn't that impressive, despite the point of the comic being to show impressive these guys are?

Where does indicate in the scans there was a whiff or air? Is there a "WHOOSH"?

You are a hypocrite because the same argument your using to downplay this feat I could use against yours. Thats the irony of this situation.

namorsubby
Originally posted by Deadline
So when Captain America descibed a change in air patterns you think what Cap mean't there was a whiff of air and he detected it? You don't think then we he described it as air patterns he was trying to imply how subtle it was.


So the writer is just a liar and hes using technical jargon for something that wasn't that impressive, despite the point of the comic being to show impressive these guys are?

Where does indicate in the scans there was a whiff or air? Is there a "WHOOSH"?

You are a hypocrite because the same argument your using to downplay this feat I could use against yours. Thats the irony of this situation.
what I'm saying is:

how on earth can that scan be interpreted as Cap having super-human senses?

He said "he sensed a shift in air patterns", which means he felt the air move as he leapt by, wouldn't you agree? It sounds very fancy indeed, but does it imply superhuman senses? probably not.

Lol, I didn't call the writer a liar and I didn't say it wasn't impressive. What would I even accuse the writer of lying about?

I simply used "whiff" to describe the movement of air, nothing more. he felt the air rush by from the movement of BP's jump. I'm sure that takes much skill and training, but it doesn't take superhuman senses.

Don't make more of it than there is to make of it, because it seems you have done that with my entire post in this one. You're being way too defensive, I'm not demeaning or discrediting anything.

Deadline
Originally posted by namorsubby
what I'm saying is:

how on earth can that scan be interpreted as Cap having super-human senses?

He said "he sensed a shift in air patterns", which means he felt the air move as he leapt by, wouldn't you agree? It sounds very fancy indeed, but does it imply superhuman senses? probably not.

Lol, I didn't call the writer a liar and I didn't say it wasn't impressive. What would I even accuse the writer of lying about?

I simply used "whiff" to describe the movement of air, nothing more. he felt the air rush by from the movement of BP's jump. I'm sure that takes much skill and training, but it doesn't take superhuman senses.

Don't make more of it than there is to make of it, because it seems you have done that with my entire post in this one. You're being way too defensive, I'm not demeaning or discrediting anything.

The same argument your using to downplay Cap feats could be used for Deathstroke.

Ok then since you want to play it like that DS didn't sense subtle vibrations in the earth he just felt the ground shaking.

Juk3n
Originally posted by namorsubby




you guys are so thick.


erm how to win an argument 101?

Deadline
Originally posted by Juk3n
erm how to win an argument 101?

To be fair he was justified in saying that.

Daredevil1
Originally posted by namorsubby
l
Slade has better super-senses than Cap, because he actually has super-senses, while Steve does not.


Wait so because it says super senses it means Cap does not. Ha.

In Frank Miller's run of Daredevil(the Nuke saga) on the story itself it calls Cap a "Super-Man" after Cap hacked into top secret files of the weapon X programs mind you and he read up on his file and Nukes. So what type of Man is Cap "Super".....LOL.

To easy. This should be funny how you spin this as Hyperbole. And if you spin this that way then the same applies to Slade.

But then again I'm talking to a guy who thinks Batman can heal a bullet to the head in 12 minutes like Cap........LOL.

namorsubby
Originally posted by Deadline
The same argument your using to downplay Cap feats could be used for Deathstroke.

Ok then since you want to play it like that DS didn't sense subtle vibrations in the earth he just felt the ground shaking. no, it can't, because I'm not downplaying anything. He felt the air move as BP leapt, did he not? I don't get what you're complaining about? That's what happened, and it in no way suggest some sort of super-sense used to detect "shifting air patterns" or in other words "just moving air".

But Slade did senses those things, Why, you ask? Because the the text said he did. It clearly states that they are subtle ground shifts and it makes it pretty clear that Slade can only sense them because of his powers.

You can't just say "no" to that. it's stated. I'm starting to think you guys really don't understand much of anything.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Wait so because it says super senses it means Cap does not. Ha.

In Frank Miller's run of Daredevil(the Nuke saga) on the story itself it calls Cap a "Super-Man" after Cap hacked into top secret files of the weapon X programs mind you and he read up on his file and Nukes. So what type of Man is Cap "Super".....LOL.

To easy. This should be funny how you spin this as Hyperbole. And if you spin this that way then the same applies to Slade.

But then again I'm talking to a guy who thinks Batman can heal a bullet to the head in 12 minutes like Cap........LOL.

Cap has no super-senses, Slade does, because he is a meta. That's the only point I'm making.

I'm pretty sure narration or someone else has said things like "unbeatable" or "can't lose" in reference to Slade and Batman......an probably cap too. If we're playing it like that though, Bruce is officially "the most dangerous man in DCU earth" lol

When did I say that? never, right? okay.

Regular people have survived bullets to the head. It all depends on the circumstances and complications caused by the injury, which I don't believed were specified in those scans.

Originally posted by Juk3n
erm how to win an argument 101?

Forgive my bluntness. For I knew you guys weren't really being "dense", but purposely being difficult with your interpretation of the scan. At least I hope so.

Daredevil1
Cap does because he is a super-man. Just like you think Slade does because he is a meta. LOL regular people have survived bullets to the head but they don't heal up in 12 freaking minutes and go out to battle again....LOL. Prove that there's circumstances other then your own opinion.

Heck Cap's strength has been described Preternatural do you even know what that means? Wait so Cap being called a Super-Man doesn't count but Slade being called a Meta......counts. Seriously you shot yourself in the foot on that one.

Oh thats right Cap has been called the next step in human evolution on book but thats just hyperbole to you everthing is hyperbole for Cap and everthing thats said about Slade is accepted. This is you lame logic.

namorsubby
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Cap does because he is a super-man. Just like you think Slade does because he is a meta. LOL regular people have survived bullets to the head but they don't heal up in 12 freaking minutes and go out to battle again....LOL. Prove that there's circumstances other then your own opinion.

Heck Cap's strength has been described Preternatural do you even know that that means? Wait so Cap being called a Super-Man doesn't count but Slade being called a Meta......counts. Seriously you shot yourself in the foot on that one. Let's get relevant, shall we?

Continue here:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t490656.html

Badabing
Originally posted by Starscream M
Who wins? A sane Harvey Dent took down Croc with a broken bottle and choke hold. no expression

Black bolt z
Originally posted by Badabing
A sane Harvey Dent took down Croc with a broken bottle and choke hold. no expression haermm2


mmm

namorsubby
Broken bottles hurt, and so do chokeholds.

Can Cap really endure that type of punishment? shifty

darthgoober
Originally posted by namorsubby
you can't train to perfection in the MU, it's "unrealistic". DCU, different universe, different story. Batman trained to human perfection, which can be interpreted in all sort of ways, but I figure if you're humanly perfect, you're as good as a human can be.

You say "power dampener" as if Cap has some superpower that needed to be supressed. Weren't they just weight, when he got shot, I mean Real humans have taken bullets to the skull and survived. Obie Trice was shot in the head, retained consciousness, checked himself into the hospital, and checked himself out a few hours later with the bullet still in his skull.

DD must be as fast and strong as a trained human can become in the MU, which is not human perfection.

Batman has said or even implied no such thing in any crossover, ever. This I know for a fact.

This infamous misconception was born out of this innocent statement from Bruce to Steve:

"It is possible that you could beat me, avenger, but it would take a long time"

completely irrelevant and totally not in support of the "concept"

edit:

Some scans that support your argument that Cap is evolved and enhanced past "human" levels, would immediately result in my concession, honestly.
What kinds of scans are you wanting to see? I mean what would support his being enhanced past "human" levels in your opinion?

Omega Vision
Originally posted by Badabing
A sane Harvey Dent took down Croc with a broken bottle and choke hold. no expression
Don't forget that Harvey Dent with his sanity intact is a Low Herald.

Battlehammer
Bump I would also like to know just what scans would do the trick for you becuase you seem to ignore everything posted and simply right it off, you seem as bad as H1.

Lord_Talron
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Don't forget that Harvey Dent with his sanity intact is a Low Herald. so very true v.v

BattleMage
CAP with little to no effort!

darthgoober
Bump

Originally posted by namorsubby
you can't train to perfection in the MU, it's "unrealistic". DCU, different universe, different story. Batman trained to human perfection, which can be interpreted in all sort of ways, but I figure if you're humanly perfect, you're as good as a human can be.

You say "power dampener" as if Cap has some superpower that needed to be supressed. Weren't they just weight, when he got shot, I mean Real humans have taken bullets to the skull and survived. Obie Trice was shot in the head, retained consciousness, checked himself into the hospital, and checked himself out a few hours later with the bullet still in his skull.

DD must be as fast and strong as a trained human can become in the MU, which is not human perfection.

Batman has said or even implied no such thing in any crossover, ever. This I know for a fact.

This infamous misconception was born out of this innocent statement from Bruce to Steve:

"It is possible that you could beat me, avenger, but it would take a long time"

completely irrelevant and totally not in support of the "concept"

edit:

Some scans that support your argument that Cap is evolved and enhanced past "human" levels, would immediately result in my concession, honestly.

Originally posted by darthgoober
What kinds of scans are you wanting to see? I mean what would support his being enhanced past "human" levels in your opinion?

namorsubby
Originally posted by darthgoober
What kinds of scans are you wanting to see? I mean what would support his being enhanced past "human" levels in your opinion?

I believe I was pretty precise with this statement:

Originally posted by namorsubby
Some scans that support your argument that Cap is evolved and enhanced past "human" levels, would immediately result in my concession, honestly.

That's what I wanna see. In other words, if Cap is evolved, show me comic evidence supporting it, not hyperbole. If cap is a metahuman or low superhuman, show me something supporting it.

darthgoober
Originally posted by namorsubby
I believe I was pretty precise with this statement:



That's what I wanna see. In other words, if Cap is evolved, show me comic evidence supporting it, not hyperbole. If cap is a metahuman or low superhuman, show me something supporting it.
Like what though? Are you looking for feats or what because it seems like you write off anything indicating that Cap is beyond a human's capabilities as PIS or hyperbole. So just give me a semi-specific example of what will prove the point to you beyond the shadow of a doubt and I'll see what I can do to accomidate.

namorsubby
Originally posted by darthgoober
Like what though? Are you looking for feats or what because it seems like you write off anything indicating that Cap is beyond a human's capabilities as PIS or hyperbole. So just give me an example of what will prove the point to you beyond the shadow of a doubt and I'll see what I can do to accomidate.

What do you mean? What exactly has even been shown for me to write off? Not examples proving Cap is a metahuman or an evolved human, that's for sure.

I don't wanna see high-end feats of Cap punching some class whatever or healing fast. That doesn't prove he is a meta. Why? because many peak human characters have those same high end feats that are really impressive but no ones throwing a fit about the fact that they should be low superhuman or meta. They stay peak humans and no one complains. Everyone knows these guys do things humans could never do, but only Cap deserves to take that step up to the next rank. Why?

darthgoober
Originally posted by namorsubby
What do you mean? What exactly has even been shown for me to write off? Not examples proving Cap is a metahuman or an evolved human, that's for sure.

I don't wanna see high-end feats of Cap punching some class whatever or healing fast. That doesn't prove he is a meta. Why? because many peak human characters have those same high end feats that are really impressive but no ones throwing a fit about the fact that they should be low superhuman or meta. They stay peak humans and no one complains. Everyone knows these guys do things humans could never do, but only Cap deserves to take that step up to the next rank. Why?
Well then what do you want dude? I'm asking you strait out "what do you want to see exactly". Just give me an example...

King Castle
b/c its bn stated in his own titles by enemy scientist and files like shield as well as other meta's that acknowledge cap being more then human..

the fact that these other guys who survive or heal tend to have things like chi amp which cap does not..

the fact that his metabolism is beyond human and has bn shown repeatedly means he is not "peak" human but more.

namorsubby
Originally posted by darthgoober
Well then what do you want dude? I'm asking you strait out "what do you want to see exactly". Just give me an example...
Am I really being that vague? Short of describing a hypothetical scene that would prove Cap is meta and evolved, I've been pretty precise.

1. Where is cap stated metahuman or low superhuman? Cap feats that some deem worthy of metahuman status because of impressiveness is not enough. In that case Batman,DD,Nightwing,Elektra, etc etc etc are all low metas.

2. Show me a scan that says Cap is really an evolved human due to the SSS and only the SSS itself isn't responsible for his attributes directly.

Originally posted by King Castle
b/c its bn stated in his own titles by enemy scientist and files like shield as well as other meta's that acknowledge cap being more then human..

the fact that these other guys who survive or heal tend to have things like chi amp which cap does not..

the fact that his metabolism is beyond human and has bn shown repeatedly means he is not "peak" human but more.

1. Show me.

2. I guess some do, but so what? That doesn't go for everyone but Cap.

3. examples please? Hopefully not the headwound or virus related scans, because.......I'll just wait till you show em.lol

King Castle
you bn told and shown repeatedly.. a virus related scan?
you mean the biological gas that he walked through where he was the only one not effected while others were including she hulk?


how about the nazi scientist that captured cap in the sub stated he had the strength of ten men,, or bucky(cap) stating that cap was three times faster and stronger then himself..

or wolverine saying that cap is the energizer bunny of the costume set that he does more then any one human can do with apparent no powers he just keeps on going.

the fact that cap has stated repeatedly that the SSS enhances his metabolism to where he cant get drunk or that his sight allows him to see bullets or whatnot...

or that he has jumped from a hovering helicopter and cracked the pavement creating a small crater with his feet without injury..

or how about every high lvl brick hit he has consistently taken seeing as how you like to rely on this lvl of logic with slade as proof as superiority?

how about that he was once poison with a costum poison which he survived and ripped through chains and escaped as his metabolism only slowed down... this would have killed bats.

ppl like shang or IF if they survive its through mystic means and they have survived similar things but has always bn clear that they meditate and tap into chi a mystic ability in marvel...but keep laughing and dismissing his feats he is consistent in his showings..

darthgoober
Originally posted by namorsubby
Am I really being that vague? Short of describing a hypothetical scene that would prove Cap is meta and evolved, I've been pretty precise.

1. Where is cap stated metahuman or low superhuman? Cap feats that some deem worthy of metahuman status because of impressiveness is not enough. In that case Batman,DD,Nightwing,Elektra, etc etc etc are all low metas.

2. Show me a scan that says Cap is really an evolved human due to the SSS and only the SSS itself isn't responsible for his attributes directly.


So let me get this strait just so there's no question later on, if I can round up a scan where it's said that Cap is superhuman/metahuman or a scan that says Cap was evolved by the SSS you'll conceed the point and acknowledge that he's beyond "peak human"?

namorsubby
Originally posted by darthgoober
So let me get this strait just so there's no question later on, if I can round up a scan where it's said that Cap is superhuman/metahuman or a scan that says Cap was evolved by the SSS you'll conceed the point and acknowledge that he's beyond "peak human"? Sure, but let's not present a scan that needs some "colorful" interpretation to amount to that. I've seen a lot of that. hyberbole, etc are out.

darthgoober
Originally posted by namorsubby
Sure, but let's not present a scan that needs some "colorful" interpretation to amount to that. I've seen a lot of that. hyberbole, etc are out.
No no now, no talk about hyperbole. I want to know what it will take to make you accept it as NOT hyperbole. Don't be afraid to be specific, I want the next scan I post for you on the matter to be the last.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Cap handles poison.
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/9079/capamericav135902roughelb5.jpg
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/3644/capamericav135903rougheyz9.jpg
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/7200/capamericav135904rougheme7.jpg

enZRB_TjJ00

namorsubby
Originally posted by darthgoober
No no now, no talk about hyperbole. I want to know what it will take to make you accept it as NOT hyperbole. Don't be afraid to be specific, I want the next scan I post for you on the matter to be the last. *sigh*

Tell you what DB, Why don't you just post why you believe Cap is a meta and/or evolved and we go from there. Me being dreadfully specific so you can try and find a feat to play off my exact words doesn't interest me. I believe I was specific enough with my first post. Something that shows Cap is evolved and/or superhuman/meta, how much more specific do you want?

BattleMage
Cap breaks his jaw and send him back to Gotham crying and begging batman to go beat up Cap for him, but to his surprise batman Changes the subject every time he says caps name.

Juk3n
Originally posted by namorsubby
Something that shows Cap is evolved and/or superhuman/meta, how much more specific do you want?

*sigh* dude, i can't believe you posted this here today , after you've had a 5 week debate on this very subject in your own thread, which contains vast amounts of evidence to suggest Cap is a low level super.

'meta' doesn't exist in the MU of course we wont find a direct quote there. But we will find people that call him 'super' and 'enhanced beyond..blah blah' Pulling the truck through the desert, jumping from the choppa, outracing a bullet, deflecting bullets after being fired, staggering Hulk, fighting ANY version of Namor. The punishement from Iron Man, toe to toe with Ironspidey, braking Thors arm, bending one of Wolverines adamanium claws under his own strength, choking out colossus, punching through Sue Storms forcefield..i mean it's all there dude, seriously you just have to look. stick out tongue

ok seriously, i know your response will be "someone like batman has feats just like that - HE must be super too then" well, thats DC's hang up, it's a different verse with different bar set. Back to topic, if you can stagger Hulk and KO namor, and handle ironspidey..then you can take killer croc to the cleaners.

namorsubby
Originally posted by Juk3n
*sigh* dude, i can't believe you posted this here today , after you've had a 5 week debate on this very subject in your own thread, which contains vast amounts of evidence to suggest Cap is a low level super.

'meta' doesn't exist in the MU of course we wont find a direct quote there. But we will find people that call him 'super' and 'enhanced beyond..blah blah' Pulling the truck through the desert, jumping from the choppa, outracing a bullet, deflecting bullets after being fired, staggering Hulk, fighting ANY version of Namor. The punishement from Iron Man, toe to toe with Ironspidey, braking Thors arm, bending one of Wolverines adamanium claws under his own strength, choking out colossus, punching through Sue Storms forcefield..i mean it's all there dude, seriously you just have to look. stick out tongue

ok seriously, i know your response will be "someone like batman has feats just like that - HE must be super too then" well, thats DC's hang up, it's a different verse with different bar set. Back to topic, if you can stagger Hulk and KO namor, and handle ironspidey..then you can take killer croc to the cleaners.

Like I've said a million times, Cap is not meta or superhuman anywhere but in the hearts and minds of his biggest fans.

I don't understand how you people can see a difference between his outstanding feats and those of peak humans in both universes, not just DC.

His legit feats still stand whether he's called superhuman/meta or not, so I really don't know why you guys keep stressing this. It's basically irrelevant.

Cap's not a classified meta, he's a "peak human" character who performs a "superhuman" type feat every other issue, just like any other well-known, grade A peak human. I don't see why a few people want Cap to be an exception, then again, there seems to be an overflowing and frankly, overwhelming affinity for Rogers around this particular site.


Oh, and Steve Rogers FTW

Daredevil1
And Slade isn't superhuman he just does a superhuman feat every other issue like every other A-list Street character......LOL at your logic.

And no he's not just peak human he's the peak of human potential unlike the rest of the so called peak human's that you clasify.

namorsubby
Originally posted by Daredevil1
And Slade isn't superhuman he just does a superhuman feat every other issue like every other A-list Street character......LOL at your logic.

1.You can't just reverse my statement for slade, seeing as he is an actual stated/classified superhuman/meta. And FYI, when I say "stated/classified" I don't mean by a handful of irrational fanatics.

2.When I say Cap performs "superhuman" feats, I mean feats that are obviously not humanly possible in the real world. I thought that was self-explanatory, but I forgot who I was dealing with.

LOL at your........well, I can't really call it logic.

Originally posted by Daredevil1

And no he's not just peak human he's the peak of human potential unlike the rest of the so called peak human's that you clasify.


1.Peak of human potential - Peak human........do I seriously have to explain how the phrase relates to the term?

2. I don't classify anything. You can despise the messager all you want, but I didn't lay out the standards......those directly involved with these comics did.

Daredevil1
You can't reverse my statement for Cap since he's been classified as as superhuman/super-man/preternatural/super-soldier/evolved human/peak of human potential.................LOL.

No wonder many are arguing against you logic. Your right you didn't lay out the standards thats why the comics show your logic at fault.

namorsubby
Originally posted by Daredevil1
You can't reverse my statement for Cap since he's been classified as as superhuman/super-man/preternatural/super-soldier/evolved human/peak of human potential.................LOL.

No wonder many are arguing against you logic. Your right you didn't lay out the standards thats why the comics show your logic at fault.

You clearly don't understand what "classified" means, but I won't hold it against you.

Many? You mean a handful of neanderthals, right?


lol, Which comics exactly?

Why don't you try showing proof of him being classified as these things you claim. See what you do is when you make a statement in a debate, and then you use evidence to support it. The evidence presented is called an arguement

Daredevil1
Fact of the matter is Slade isn't true superhuman. And you haven't showed any proof that he's >> then Cap.

Slade just does what other street level characters do every other issue. he he he he he.

Seriously thats your logic and can be easily used against you. Metahuman even Static shock is classifed that and yet his stats are not that great. Slade just classified to be different like a mutant. No wonder he was titled almost superhuman.

namorsubby
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Fact of the matter is Slade isn't true superhuman. And you haven't showed any proof that he's >> then Cap.

Slade just does what other street level characters do every other issue. he he he he he.

Seriously thats your logic and can be easily used against you. Metahuman even Static shock is classifed that and yet his stats are not that great. Slade just classified to be different like a mutant. No wonder he was titled almost superhuman.


Look at a comic, bio, anything, and you'll probably stumble upon a statement classifying Slade as a meta/superhuman. Steve is a meta nowhere on paper.....only in your statements. Should I really take your word for it?

Oh, and I've "showed"(lol) quite enough proof.

Instantaneous Reflexes > Cap speed, check

20 men > Cap's strength, check

Taking on multiple people, some of which who are more than a match for Cap individually with no prep > Cap's formmidability, check.

Yeah, just last week I saw Cap get his heart cleaved in two and regrow it.oh yeah, and Batman took Hal Jordan and Aquaman no prep after his one on one bout with Donna Troy.lol

That's my Logic? Looks more like an imitation of my logic performed by a toddler.......a toddler with a mental disorder.


The difference between me and you is, when I see a statement in a comic like.......Slade saying "I beat the titans every third week" or "I'm the strongest, fastest person on earth" I'm not fool enough to take them out of context, interpret them literally, and then try to base an argument on them. This is what you guys do, and it's not because you're truly dense as I sometimes imply, it's because you have a conflict of interest.

jinzin
Originally posted by Juk3n
*sigh* dude, i can't believe you posted this here today , after you've had a 5 week debate on this very subject in your own thread, which contains vast amounts of evidence to suggest Cap is a low level super.

'meta' doesn't exist in the MU of course we wont find a direct quote there. But we will find people that call him 'super' and 'enhanced beyond..blah blah' Pulling the truck through the desert, jumping from the choppa, outracing a bullet, deflecting bullets after being fired, staggering Hulk, fighting ANY version of Namor. The punishement from Iron Man, toe to toe with Ironspidey, braking Thors arm, bending one of Wolverines adamanium claws under his own strength, choking out colossus, punching through Sue Storms forcefield..i mean it's all there dude, seriously you just have to look. stick out tongue

ok seriously, i know your response will be "someone like batman has feats just like that - HE must be super too then" well, thats DC's hang up, it's a different verse with different bar set. Back to topic, if you can stagger Hulk and KO namor, and handle ironspidey..then you can take killer croc to the cleaners. thumbsup

namorsubby
lol, third graders with the same AR level, flock together.


Steve rogers FTW. Croc lost to Huntress......in water

jinzin
Originally posted by BattleMage
"It is possible that you could beat me, avenger, but it would take a long time"

He still acknowledge that Cap was the better man. And is he not the worlds greatest Detective? I honestly think he detected That he was about to get his a** whipped!

Cap vs Croc Cap 100/10 yes laughing out loud

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