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Hand to hand only, no lasso.

Team two

yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa black adam aint outfighting ww

BA

BA is pretty cool, he doesn't hold back and tries to kill people in one attack. WW and PG wouldn't try to kill him.

If WW is slightly below Marvel and Supes, and both of them can beat Adam, then WW + Power Girl = win, against Adam.

Team Booby wins, but one of them is gonna have their things deflated.

Originally posted by marwash22
If WW is slightly below Marvel and Supes, and both of them can beat Adam, then WW + Power Girl = win, against Adam.

I'm not sure about Marvel beating Adam, but Superman didn't do so well against him, considering he was trying really hard to take him out and Adam didn't want to fight.

And I know Captain Marvels lost against Adam in their first major post crisis fight, and again in World War 3. In general, Adam tends to look a little stronger...

Originally posted by cdtm
I'm not sure about Marvel beating Adam, but Superman didn't do so well against him, considering he was trying really hard to take him out and Adam didn't want to fight.

And I know Captain Marvels lost against Adam in their first major post crisis fight, and again in World War 3. In general, Adam tends to look a little stronger... No. He tends to look a little more vicious. But if he were to ever fight Wonder Woman, he would be fighting someone faster, more skilled,and with weapons made to take him out.

Originally posted by lightyeargee
No. He tends to look a little more vicious. But if he were to ever fight Wonder Woman, he would be fighting someone faster, more skilled,and with weapons made to take him out.

skilled yes...faster? why?

Spite. WW solos

Originally posted by h1a8
Spite. WW solos

how many out of ten would WW take?

Originally posted by Warlord
how many out of ten would WW take? Enough for you to realize H1 is never right.

Also, BA one punches PG, and beats WW's eyebrows off.

Originally posted by Blanket
Enough for you to realize H1 is never right.


there's always hope...

Originally posted by Blanket
Enough for you to realize H1 is never right.

Also, BA one punches PG, and beats WW's eyebrows off.

Eyebrows? Why would he do that?

Originally posted by Warlord
there's always hope... No.

Adam breaks PG and WW though similar to this:
http://img147.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=5aa36_kahndc5.jpg
http://img130.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=4bfd9_kahndc6.jpg
http://img131.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=d4b52_kahndc7.jpg
Originally posted by amnesia
Eyebrows? Why would he do that? Because he doesn't care.

Originally posted by Blanket
No.

Adam breaks PG and WW though similar to this:



Because he doesn't care. How is that relevant to PG and WW? Wasn't he amped during WW3 with Isis and Osiris's power?

Originally posted by lightyeargee
How is that relevant to PG and WW? Wasn't he amped during WW3 with Isis and Osiris's power? You didn't even look at the scans.

Originally posted by Blanket
You didn't even look at the scans. Yes I did.

Originally posted by lightyeargee
Yes I did. Then you've never read 52/WW3.

WW is about Marvel's level, and both of them are slightly below Supes, and Adam is above Marvel and possibly Supes, and two-on-one is too much even for Adam.

Originally posted by Blanket
No.

Adam breaks PG and WW though similar to this:
http://img147.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=5aa36_kahndc5.jpg
http://img130.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=4bfd9_kahndc6.jpg
http://img131.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=d4b52_kahndc7.jpg
Because he doesn't care.

IMO, breaking out of Sentinels constructs is even more impressive then breaking Power Girl.

WW has broken plenty of constructs.

Sentinels or some shitty GL?

I remember the latter.

Originally posted by Warlord
how many out of ten would WW take?

About 7-9

In a comic about 6 though (according to sacrifice)

BA

Originally posted by Mindset
Sentinels or some shitty GL?

I remember the latter. Sinestro,GLs,Sinestro orps members,and Quasar's.

Originally posted by Q99
WW is about Marvel's level, and both of them are slightly below Supes, and Adam is above Marvel and possibly Supes, and two-on-one is too much even for Adam.

this is basically the truth, yeh BA is stronger than WW and Power Girl, but them combined would be too much. ba vs diana would imo be a slight win for BA. prob 5.5-6/10, then add in powergirl and he not going to do so well.

Originally posted by lightyeargee
Sinestro,GLs,Sinestro orps members,and Quasar's. Only impressive one is Sinestro, Quasar is irrelevant here.

Got a scan of that?

BA wins.

WW solos

Originally posted by quanchi112
BA wins.

Welcome back.

Originally posted by h1a8
WW solos How?

Originally posted by cdtm
Welcome back. Why thank you. good to know I am still loved and appreciated.

Team wins.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Team wins.

agreed, cant believe so many people believe BA would beat these two. i mean WW alone should be a good fight

Originally posted by r0nm0n88
agreed, cant believe so many people believe BA would beat these two. i mean WW alone should be a good fight Both WW and PG are faster than BA. He had trouble keeping up with Jay Garrick in a foot race. And on a seperate occasion when they fought, Jay was able to take it to Adam using a burst of the Speed Force. WW has had no problem following someone using the Speed Force even entering it herself, lassoing someone using it, and even tagging an out of control Flash.

Originally posted by h1a8
WW solos

Not without her lasso she's not.


WW ~= CM. BA > CM

Originally posted by lightyeargee
Both WW and PG are faster than BA. He had trouble keeping up with Jay Garrick in a foot race. And on a seperate occasion when they fought, Jay was able to take it to Adam using a burst of the Speed Force. WW has had no problem following someone using the Speed Force even entering it herself, lassoing someone using it, and even tagging an out of control Flash.

The weren't racing, and Jay was impressed with how fast Adam was.

http://img131.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=d4b52_kahndc7.jpg

Adam was fast enough to knock him out of a full blitz, and fought evenly with him before.

Originally posted by cdtm
The weren't racing, and Jay was impressed with how fast Adam was.



Adam was fast enough to knock him out of a full blitz, and fought evenly with him before. And WW is yet faster still

BA stares him them to death.

Black Adam vs WW

BA ftw

I don't think people realize just how powerful PG and WW are. PG was literally matching Solomon Grundy in a test of strength until Supergirl's presence depowered her.WW has one shotted a white martian. The same white martian s took a one shot from flash doing an imp to be Ko'd. These two girls can take any mele herald for the 1@ out of 10

On Power Girl being faster:

She flat out admitted Cap was faster in Johns initial JSA run. Cap is in no way superior to Adam.

Originally posted by lightyeargee
WW has one shotted a white martian. The same white martian s took a one shot from flash doing an imp to be Ko'd.

Scans?

As I recall, she knocked him across the water, but not out, and actually got the worst of it.

Originally posted by lightyeargee
I don't think people realize just how powerful PG and WW are. PG was literally matching Solomon Grundy in a test of strength until Supergirl's presence depowered her.WW has one shotted a white martian. The same white martian s took a one shot from flash doing an imp to be Ko'd. These two girls can take any mele herald for the 1@ out of 10 Batman took out a white martian.

Originally posted by cdtm
Scans?

As I recall, she knocked him across the water, but not out, and actually got the worst of it. Actually she was handling two of them until Arthur got one shotted by being an idiot and she got zapped by Trionix in the back while she was attending to Arthur. Yeah. She knocked him out of his form and he was gone until he came back as a whale. Off panel Recovery is a KO in my book.

Originally posted by Mindset
Batman took out a white martian. With smarts and fire. don't over simplify.

Originally posted by h1a8
Spite. WW solos Lol

ladies take him.

Yea, two-on-one gives an obvious advantage.

Hand to Hand? Adam wins.

Team.

Team wins.

hand to hand no lasso?

dont see how adam can lose, he can quickly deal with power girl like he did in ww3 ,

Strategy, WW goes and takes Adam head-on. Then PG hits him from the side or behind.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
hand to hand no lasso?

dont see how adam can lose, he can quickly deal with power girl like he did in ww3 ,

No, he can't.

team wins but BA ****s them up pretty good.


Wonder woman alone. Wouldn't hold back against BA if he was trying to kill her. And as usual PG is underrated. Anyhow the team wins after a long fight

WW would solo BA due to her superior fighting skill.

It feels wrong to qft h1a8 but...

Originally posted by h1a8
WW would solo BA due to her superior fighting skill.

Originally posted by h1a8
WW would solo BA due to her superior fighting skill.


Partially agree hear. however the last time wonder woman delt with captian marvel her superior fighting skills were mainly evasion. She spent most her time avoiding billy or trying to kick him. In fact the only way she was able to subdue him was for billy to alow her to lasso him. And when billy finally hit her she went ****ing flying across the comic book page. Now when billy and adam fight adam has for the most part had the upper hand now im not saying Wonder woman cant beat him but wondy gets her ass handed to her by supes when adam puts up a very good fight. And please don't bring up the magical weaknesss bullshit casue clark aint the suseptable to magic since pre crisis.


To say wonder woman can beat black adam is fine but to say its spite is ****ing retarded. Personally a fight between adam and wonderwoman would be awesome. PG added to the fight makes it almost a sure win for the team. Almost.

Skill can only go so far against someone with better stats and isn't a complete idiot. I do think Diana can "outfight" Teth for a time, but eventually, the speed and strength difference is going to come in.

Originally posted by cdtm
On Power Girl being faster:

She flat out admitted Cap was faster in Johns initial JSA run. Cap is in no way superior to Adam.

Incorrect actually. BA is stronger than Cap and has much better durability. This is because of the God's that power him two give him strength (Amon and Aton) and two give him durability(Shu and Aton). While Cap is faster and has better endurance. BA is just over half light speed (his speed only coming from Horus).

Both the women have a speed advantage over Adam. I don't however think either is capable of doing sufficient damage to him to bring about a win.

Originally posted by beatboks
Incorrect actually. BA is stronger than Cap and has much better durability. This is because of the God's that power him two give him strength (Amon and Aton) and two give him durability(Shu and Aton). While Cap is faster and has better endurance. BA is just over half light speed (his speed only coming from Horus).

Both the women have a speed advantage over Adam. I don't however think either is capable of doing sufficient damage to him to bring about a win.
Incorrect, their strength comes from different gods but they are equal in everything.

Originally posted by cdtm


And I know Captain Marvels lost against Adam in their first major post crisis fight, and again in World War 3. In general, Adam tends to look a little stronger...

Cap was at 1/3 power level in that fight because Freddy (Jnr) and Mary were both powered up. Despite this and even after BA dislocated his shoulder and he had his arm in a sling and with another Marvel (uncle) powered up Billy's stamina was still enough to keep taking on BA until he had the moral victory. Cap always outlasts BA.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Incorrect, their strength comes from different gods but they are equal in everything. depending on the writer, adam can be stronger

Originally posted by abhilegend
Incorrect, their strength comes from different gods but they are equal in everything.

equal huh. Why has Cap been able to achieve Light speed and been asked by wally if he was linked to the Speed force and yet BA has tapped out at over half the speed of light (mach 500) and collapsed in the background of Jay. Also BA was unable to react to Jay when speed blitzing in JSA. the only way he could deal with Jay was to thunderclap and have him busy saving innocents from flying glass. Cap has also shown to match WW in speed who is faster than Jay.

On a side note IIRC in their first encounter before Mary and Freddy also powered up Billy's thought balloon was pretty clear that he was hit by BA harder than he could himself.

Superman also said he hit harder

Originally posted by beatboks
equal huh. Why has Cap been able to achieve Light speed and been asked by wally if he was linked to the Speed force and yet BA has tapped out at over half the speed of light (mach 500) and collapsed in the background of Jay. Mach 500 is not half of speed of light and that's from different writers anyway. Adam was just a few steps behind Jay when Jay went lightspeed, he was getting tired at mach 500. Not to mention Jay was amped on the speed of another speedster there. Its like asking how is Cap more durable when he got hurt by bullets.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/th_POS-TPB-060.jpg

Different writers and all that. And then he knocked him out with a backhand in Black Reign. No, she isn't.

He was unaware of his own strength there.

Fun factoid: Lightspeed is about Kilomach 890 (Mach 890,000).

so 500 mac is more than half of light speed.

black adam is just under light speed while cap can hit it

Originally posted by beatboks
equal huh. Why has Cap been able to achieve Light speed and been asked by wally if he was linked to the Speed force and yet BA has tapped out at over half the speed of light (mach 500) and collapsed in the background of Jay. Also BA was unable to react to Jay when speed blitzing in JSA. the only way he could deal with Jay was to thunderclap and have him busy saving innocents from flying glass. Cap has also shown to match WW in speed who is faster than Jay.

On a side note IIRC in their first encounter before Mary and Freddy also powered up Billy's thought balloon was pretty clear that he was hit by BA harder than he could himself.


I might be confusing this with another moment but didn't black Adam knock jay on his ass in the middle of a speed blitz. He backhanded him.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
so 500 mac is more than half of light speed.

black adam is just under light speed while cap can hit it

Never change, CBC.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
...so 500,000 mach is more than half of light speed.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Skill can only go so far against someone with better stats and isn't a complete idiot. I do think Diana can "outfight" Teth for a time, but eventually, the speed and strength difference is going to come in.

You know, there's plenty of boxers who win championships based on better technical skill. Even if your opponent has higher strength, if you can avoid more and hit more, you've got a very good shot. They're both high-herald melee types, no-one's going to win all the time, but either approach will work.


Also, I think speed's about equal- Speed of Hermes = Speed of Mercury = Teth's speed. Diana's also got higher reflexes/arm speed than even her speed of hermes would imply.

i'd give adam a slight majority over ww, but she would def beat him for a few. i'd say the biggest difference would be durability, not strength or speed. give her sword and shield as well as lasso and i'd say it's a pretty dead heat.

Originally posted by Q99
You know, there's plenty of boxers who win championships based on better technical skill. Even if your opponent has higher strength, if you can avoid more and hit more, you've got a very good shot. They're both high-herald melee types, no-one's going to win all the time, but either approach will work.


Also, I think speed's about equal- Speed of Hermes = Speed of Mercury = Teth's speed. Diana's also got higher reflexes/arm speed than even her speed of hermes would imply. "




Hmm id have to wager hermes is faster then mercury. hermes has some good speed and reflex feats against flash.

Originally posted by leonidas
i'd give adam a slight majority over ww, but she would def beat him for a few. i'd say the biggest difference would be durability, not strength or speed. give her sword and shield as well as lasso and i'd say it's a pretty dead heat.

How about giving her Power Girl?

i already said earlier that the ladies take this, imo, for a heavy majority. i think BOTH women here are being underrated by several people.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Skill can only go so far against someone with better stats and isn't a complete idiot. I do think Diana can "outfight" Teth for a time, but eventually, the speed and strength difference is going to come in. Well both Cap, Batman, DD, etc. has consistently beaten beings physically superior to them because of skill. I would say BA is less than twice as strong as Diana and I would say Diana is more than twice as skilled as BA. As far as combat speed goes, Diana has the better feats than BA. To be clear, I feel blow for blow BA would beat WW. But given her skill advantage she can manage to out hit him 3 to 1 or even greater. This IMO is the reason why I think she beats him.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
so 500 mac is more than half of light speed.

black adam is just under light speed while cap can hit it

Yeah which is the exact words I used in my post that BA topped ou OVER half light speed. So not sure why Abhi said Mach 500 isn't half the speed of light because I never said it was.



Actually the panel in which Jay went Light speed BA was no where to be seen. The one your thinking of was the previous panel and BA wasn't just a few steps behind at all. BA was pictured at about two thirds the size of Jay in that panel. BA is taller than Jay the reason for the size difference was the way artists depict distance in comics, you know because things look smaller when their further away. Plus Jay only amped himself at light speed by draining BA speed ( what little there was) so that he could make the jump through time.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3369767-2227676-eb1fd_flash4.jpg

yeah that was a separate instance but it was one against several that have shown the opposite. Personally I'll take consistent evidence over one offs that don't seem to fit with consistent showings.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/125079/2980602-2836890-1.png
This is how BA consistently shows against Jay

And this is how he has to deal with him
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/12/125079/2980603-2836891-2.png

Both those scans are from the Goyer / Johns JSA run during the period Wally was in the speed force and Jay's connection to it was weakened and he could not attain light speed. So Jay at only 70/80% light speed was faster than BA by some measure. Considering that WW could keep up with Jesse Quick when she entered the Speed force she's the one with a slight speed advantage here ( very slight) and she's a lot more prone to actually use speed than BA is.

Originally posted by Q99

Also, I think speed's about equal- Speed of Hermes = Speed of Mercury = Teth's speed. Diana's also got higher reflexes/arm speed than even her speed of hermes would imply.

Teth / BA doesn't have the speed of Mercury he has the speed of Huru ( Horus) courtesy of the deal Lady blaze (Shazam's daughter) did with the evil Egyptian gods in an attempt to pervert her fathers new champion his powers come from completely different gods.

it's still his greater durability ( not to mention healing factor (which is rediculous ) that will be too much for the pair of them. I just don't see how either one is going to be able to do enough damage to put him down. There's not even a guarrentee that WW's lasso will even affect him with his strength of the inner mind and immunity to magic from Mehen.

WW can hurt Superman, y'know.



Op doesn't allow lasso, but "What's your transformation word?" is a guaranteed win. The lasso worked on CM, twice.

Originally posted by Q99
WW can hurt Superman, y'know.



Op doesn't allow lasso, but "What's your transformation word?" is a guaranteed win. The lasso worked on CM, twice.

CM doesn't get any power from Mehen and doesn't have that power defense.

Based on who and what the lasso has effected, I find it sketchy to assume Black Adam would be able to resist it, especially considering it has effected Captain Marvel, who is his equal in power (albeit with slightly different abilities).

Originally posted by beatboks
Yeah which is the exact words I used in my post that BA topped ou OVER half light speed. So not sure why Abhi said Mach 500 isn't half the speed of light because I never said it was.

facepalm

Mach 500 isn't half the speed of light. Speed of light is Mach 890,000.



Are you sure about that? They raced again and Adam was just behind Jay when he approached the speed of light.

http://i.imgur.com/s6Yp9BY.jpg

You are wrong once again. Jay was already amped on Rival's kinetic energy before that.

http://i.imgur.com/yHRnh1J.jpg

Its under the same writer.

I know about them. They are due to Theo Adam being in control of Adam's body. This is how Teth treats Jay.

http://i.imgur.com/dSgHyR9.jpg

Nah, Jay went near light speed just a few issues ago against Mordru. He was capable of going lightspeed but his age made it difficult. So he was. He was faster than Cap too. That's a big myth which I busted just recently.



Long story short, Jesse went near speed force and Diana travelling inside the wake/trail of Jesse's speed. They never broke into speed force.

Jay can nearly reach speed force too, its no big deal.

http://i.imgur.com/DhBGDSd.jpg

Based on this Jay is actually faster than Cap/Adam/Diana. The only being besides Barry/Wally who is faster than him is Superman who could stalemate him before he was upgraded in IC and then became faster than Jay.

I'd like to see where did Cap or wonder woman ever go near lightspeed on foot.

Wonder Woman catches Jesse Quick at the edge of the speed force.

(Link, a few pics down)

Originally posted by h1a8
Well both Cap, Batman, DD, etc. has consistently beaten beings physically superior to them because of skill. I would say BA is less than twice as strong as Diana and I would say Diana is more than twice as skilled as BA. As far as combat speed goes, Diana has the better feats than BA. To be clear, I feel blow for blow BA would beat WW. But given her skill advantage she can manage to out hit him 3 to 1 or even greater. This IMO is the reason why I think she beats him.


OK now this at least sounds reasonable. Although your still wrong

Originally posted by Q99
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/9/99519/2735356- 1533515_wonder_woman_plus_jesse_quick___page_34_su
per.jpg

Wonder Woman catches Jesse Quick at the edge of the speed force.

(Page that it's from in case the link doesn't work)
She was travelling inside Jesse's speed trail. She was left behind by Jesse at her normal speed, Jesse then amped herself hundred fold by scroll of hermes to reach near speed force. Diana reaching her on her own speed is ****ing ridiculous and illogical.

Originally posted by zeel
OK now this at least sounds reasonable. Although your still wrong

You're right, WW may be less strong, but there's no way she's half as strong, not going by her feats and judging by what she can do to Superman, her moon-and-earth pullings, and so on.


Diana does have a track record demonstrating going toe-to-toe with high heralds. Heck, she's gone HtH with Doomsday.

Originally posted by Q99
You're right, WW may be less strong, but there's no way she's half as strong, not going by her feats and judging by what she can do to Superman, her moon-and-earth pullings, and so on.


Diana does have a track record demonstrating going toe-to-toe with high heralds. Heck, she's gone HtH with Doomsday.
She's gone h2h against doomsday? Wut?

I'm going to point out that Black Adam was also traveling in the speedster's wake in his feat. They're very similar feats.

Originally posted by abhilegend
She's gone h2h against doomsday? Wut?

Yep. Doomsday War, when Brainiac was in control.


First DD one-shotted J'onn, then:

Page 1
(There's a page in between here where he grabs Plas and stars tripping him up)
Page 2
Page 3
Page 4


Not a win by any means, to state the obvious, but quite impressive toughness feats, and she lands .


There's also the time when she faced a clone of Doomsday who not only had the full power, but who's strength continually increased.
here

(Eventually she got the gauntlet of Atlas and shattered it)

Originally posted by Q99
I'm going to point out that Black Adam was also traveling in the speedster's wake in his feat. They're very similar feats.



Yep. Doomsday War, when Brainiac was in control.


First DD one-shotted J'onn, then:

Page 1
(There's a page in between here where he grabs Plas and stars tripping him up)
Page 2
Page 3
Page 4


Not a win by any means, to state the obvious, but quite impressive toughness feats, and she lands .


There's also the time when she faced a clone of Doomsday who not only had the full power, but who's strength continually increased.
here

(Eventually she got the gauntlet of Atlas and shattered it)
He wasn't. He was specifically racing to give Jay his kinetic energy. Just read some JSA before you start spreading false myths.

Doomsday wrecked her alongside J'onn, Kyle and Wally before that in the time Orion reached there a few minutes after them.

http://i.imgur.com/RvXDuTs.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Ei7FN1t.jpg

After that he was purposely toying with the heroes to lure Superman there.

http://i.imgur.com/5XauJeh.jpg

When he wanted, he KTFO J'onn, Orion and Diana again simultaneously off panel as Huntress says it here.

http://i.imgur.com/NolWNXO.jpg

Also that Doomsday clone was superman level strength initially and even he KTFO wonder woman in a few attacks. It wasn't untill the end of the fight in the second issue when he started increasing in strength and at that point Diana and Hercules combined couldn't stop him.

You should be face palming, yourself. No where did I say that Mach 500 was half the speed of light. I said it was over half, which it is. speed of light is between Mach 850 and 890. Half of 850 is 425 and half of 890 is 445 and you know what 500 > than either 425 or 445 so I was correct. Why you find it so hard to do that math is beyond me even my 5 and 7 yr old hold den could work that out.

So your answer to my pointing out that BA was slower than Jay in that scan you like to use to say otherwise is to load another that shows the same thing only more so. When back in ancient Egypt BA was depicted even smaller against Jay than he was in the current time so even further in the back ground. When Jay reached light speed again no sign of BA ( the third panel in your own scan). I mean really these are pretty easy things to make out for comics readers. your own words say it ( and in caption) approached. He was well of the pace once again at below the 2/3 size by the time he was closer to light speed even further (1/2 size so way in distance) and again as Jay breaks that light speed barrier we see no sign of BA. By your reckoning this is also against a weaker slower Jay because he doesn't have any amping from rival ( haha).

OMG so because Jay was mildly amped by rival when they were talking about their plan before he ran home and said goodbye to Joan and ran back to perform the time skip you think he was still amped?? Whatever drugs you take I need to get me some cause life has to be a part for you. I suppose Jay was still amped after putting everything into his run through time to ancient Egypt too huh ?? If so that just makes Adam look even worse if he still couldn't keep up with an old man who'd expended that much.

I love how you twist the context of any scan so as to try and make it say what you want it to.

Originally posted by beatboks
You should be face palming, yourself. No where did I say that Mach 500 was half the speed of light. I said it was over half, which it is. speed of light is between Mach 850 and 890. Half of 850 is 425 and half of 890 is 445 and you know what 500 > than either 425 or 445 so I was correct. Why you find it so hard to do that math is beyond me even my 5 and 7 yr old hold den could work that out.

So your answer to my pointing out that BA was slower than Jay in that scan you like to use to say otherwise is to load another that shows the same thing only more so. When back in ancient Egypt BA was depicted even smaller against Jay than he was in the current time so even further in the back ground. When Jay reached light speed again no sign of BA ( the third panel in your own scan). I mean really these are pretty easy things to make out for comics readers. your own words say it ( and in caption) approached. He was well of the pace once again at below the 2/3 size by the time he was closer to light speed even further (1/2 size so way in distance) and again as Jay breaks that light speed barrier we see no sign of BA. By your reckoning this is also against a weaker slower Jay because he doesn't have any amping from rival ( haha).

OMG so because Jay was mildly amped by rival when they were talking about their plan before he ran home and said goodbye to Joan and ran back to perform the time skip you think he was still amped?? Whatever drugs you take I need to get me some cause life has to be a part for you. I suppose Jay was still amped after putting everything into his run through time to ancient Egypt too huh ?? If so that just makes Adam look even worse if he still couldn't keep up with an old man who'd expended that much.

I love how you twist the context of any scan so as to try and make it say what you want it to.
Are you really this dense? Speed of light is mach 881000, not mach 890.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mach_number#High-speed_flow_around_objects

I don't even know where you got this retarded idea that mach 890 is speed of light.

Yeah,no. You are just being dense again. Jay outright says that he was approaching lightspeed when Adam is just behind him in the scan I posted. You're reading too much in the scan with height difference and what not.


Mr. Terrific outright states that Jay was still amped. I don't know why you are outright discarding on panel proofs. He wasn't amped in ancient egypt and that's why Adam looked much closer to him when he approached speed of light.

... and he was doing so traveling in Jay's stream. Just because he was lending speed doesn't change that they were, physically, doing the same thing.




Yea, and note how very much harder it takes for him to take down Wondy than it did J'onn, or Orion for that matter, who was also taken out faster. It's still a good feat.


She references the earlier fight, how it was just a brief tussle, and how this time she wouldn't be holding back.

Originally posted by Q99
... and he was doing so traveling in Jay's stream. Just because he was lending speed doesn't change that they were, physically, doing the same thing. No. He was racing him side by side and then he got behind because Jay was faster. He wasn't left in dust like Jesse did to wonder woman.




He was toying with her at that time. Depowered Kyle took a hit from Doomsday when he was explicitly holding back. Its a non feat. When doomsday wanted, he KTFO Orion, J'onn and Diana simultaneously. The only guy who looked better was Superman in that series who took a dozen blows from Doomsday without any resistance and was still awake.


And her non holding back punches didn't even made Doomsday take a step back. J'onn tackled him to the ground before Doomsday pushed his and Orion's shit in together.

http://i.imgur.com/SjrD0is.jpg

These kind of feats are meaningless.

Martian Manjobber chokeslammed Doomsday?

Lol, Doomsday should have no sold him and broke his neck right then and there.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Martian Manjobber chokeslammed Doomsday?

Lol, Doomsday should have no sold him and broke his neck right then and there.
He did. He knocked out both Orion and him with a backhand and was going to rape Orion orally before Superman saved him.

http://i.imgur.com/vsdKSvg.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/vfKIFM0.jpg

The instance Diana said was a scuffle and where she wasn't going all-out because she was too used to holding back

And he *did* KTFO J'onn, right before taking on Orion with only a bit more effort. Then Diana was actually



That's actually their *third* fight. The first was the off-screen one. The second one, DD simply one-shotted J'onn with no problem. After taking out Orion again. And then Diana was the only one who actually traded blows with him for awhile... at the end of which, she was *not* KTFO.


And sure, J'onn tackled DD later... one panel after DD'd been blasted by the Astro force. Kinda left that bit out.

WW's the only non-Superman in the entire story shown to be able to take a hit from him. And not just one, but repeated, even immediately after he took out multiple others.

Originally posted by Q99
The instance Diana said was a scuffle and where she wasn't going all-out because she was too used to holding back She can't hold back her durability. She is not Superman or hulk.

Orion took several attacks from Doomsday too.



She didn't trade any blow after that. He simply toyed with her, and then he KTFO all three again simultaneously as per huntress. Her punch didn't even made him take a step back, that's what her unrestrained attack on doomsday means.


Which he walked through you mean?

http://i.imgur.com/yOFidf1.jpg

When Doomsday is toying with someone, Ted Kord, Booster Gold and Guy Gardner without his ring took at least a dozen attacks from Doomsday.

http://i.imgur.com/a8gNHML.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ushsev4.jpg

This is the same doomsday who was strong enough to oneshot J'onn and Maxima together.

http://i.imgur.com/GXkEeof.jpg

Holy ****! Booster Gold and Blue Beetle are more durable than J'onn and Mxima!!!

Originally posted by abhilegend
Are you really this dense? Speed of light is mach 881000, not mach 890.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mach_number#High-speed_flow_around_objects

I don't even know where you got this retarded idea that mach 890 is speed of light.

Yeah,no. You are just being dense again. Jay outright says that he was approaching lightspeed when Adam is just behind him in the scan I posted. You're reading too much in the scan with height difference and what not.


Mr. Terrific outright states that Jay was still amped. I don't know why you are outright discarding on panel proofs. He wasn't amped in ancient egypt and that's why Adam looked much closer to him when he approached speed of light.

Are you for real?? Seriously?? Your the one who used the figure of Mach 890 as the speed of light, I quoted you. I said it's between Mach 825 and Mach 890 which is more accurate. Sound needs air to move through and what we call Mach speed is when the object moves faster than the medium will allow. The actual speed of the sound barrier varies with air density altitude etc. light is not so restricted so it has no barrier to pass. As a strict measurement you can't put an actual Mach speed on light.

You call me dense for correcting your own misinformation and the. Shoot down the validity of your own credability by giving a link that proves your previous post false. And I'm dense? That's rich dude real rich.

Come back to me when you finish 6th grade and buy a clue. You can't even interpret the simplist of story principles Ina drawn medium and constantly throw in feats to support one stance that actually support the other

In the scan Jay stated he's approaching light speed ( not approached) and BA is clearly in the background the way every comic has ever Ina visual medium depicted distance. In the next owner ( Jay still not quite at light speed) of your own scan BA is even further behind. Only a dolt would not recognize the different sizes as a distance. Finally Jay for the second time in a few issues achieves light speed and again BA no where in sight.

The scan with Terrific saying that unfortunately wasn't just before they did it. Jay went home had a heart to heart with his wife etc. all this was between the two scans. And if he was so amped why was the result the exact same a few issues later?? Let to of the straw your going to drown clutching it.

^Pretty sure you're missing the last three 0's in the zeroth, tens and hundreds digits. Also pretty sure you're not correctly reading what abhi is writing either.

Originally posted by beatboks
Are you for real?? Seriously?? Your the one who used the figure of Mach 890 as the speed of light, I quoted you. I said it's between Mach 825 and Mach 890 which is more accurate. Sound needs air to move through and what we call Mach speed is when the object moves faster than the medium will allow. The actual speed of the sound barrier varies with air density altitude etc. light is not so restricted so it has no barrier to pass. As a strict measurement you can't put an actual Mach speed on light.

You call me dense for correcting your own misinformation and the. Shoot down the validity of your own credability by giving a link that proves your previous post false. And I'm dense? That's rich dude real rich.

Come back to me when you finish 6th grade and buy a clue. You can't even interpret the simplist of story principles Ina drawn medium and constantly throw in feats to support one stance that actually support the other

In the scan Jay stated he's approaching light speed ( not approached) and BA is clearly in the background the way every comic has ever Ina visual medium depicted distance. In the next owner ( Jay still not quite at light speed) of your own scan BA is even further behind. Only a dolt would not recognize the different sizes as a distance. Finally Jay for the second time in a few issues achieves light speed and again BA no where in sight.

The scan with Terrific saying that unfortunately wasn't just before they did it. Jay went home had a heart to heart with his wife etc. all this was between the two scans. And if he was so amped why was the result the exact same a few issues later?? Let to of the straw your going to drown clutching it.
LOLWUT? I never said its Mach 890. I said its Mach 890000. I can't take anybody seriously who at this point is so rigid in his views that he flat out refuses scientific facts. Speed of light is Mach 881000 in the vacuum. That's the speed of light taken in fiction generally. When someone goes lightspeed, it is assumed he goes 186000 miles/second which Jay points out in the same scan. At this point you're going into h1a8 category with make believe category.

What misinformation? You say that lightspeed is mach 850, what else am I supposed to tell you? That you're a genius and made a breakthrough in science?

I've passed 6th grade a long time ago. Call me back when you can multiply two numbers. Here is the numerical value of mach 890. Speed of sound is 1225 kph.

1225*890=1090250 kph.

Speed of light is 1079252850 kph. Do you see the difference now? Or should I have to call a mod now for such a trivial matter?

Yeah, he's in background just behind Jay. That means when Jay was approaching lightspeed he was just a few steps behind. Not that the artist was thinking about depth perception and he was travelling at a random speed. Get a clue.

He went to Joan, but there was no indication that he spent the amp in that time.

Bottom line is that there is no indication that Adam is stronger than cap and cap is more durable or faster than cap. I know you've somehow convinced comicvine by a scan which shows nothing of that sort, but this isn't comicvine.

Originally posted by abhilegend
LOLWUT? I never said its Mach 890. I said its Mach 890000. I can't take anybody seriously who at this point is so rigid in his views that he flat out refuses scientific facts. Speed of light is Mach 881000 in the vacuum. That's the speed of light taken in fiction generally. When someone goes lightspeed, it is assumed he goes 186000 miles/second which Jay points out in the same scan. At this point you're going into h1a8 category with make believe category.

What misinformation? You say that lightspeed is mach 850, what else am I supposed to tell you? That you're a genius and made a breakthrough in science?

I've passed 6th grade a long time ago. Call me back when you can multiply two numbers. Here is the numerical value of mach 890. Speed of sound is 1225 kph.

1225*890=1090250 kph.

Speed of light is 1079252850 kph. Do you see the difference now? Or should I have to call a mod now for such a trivial matter?

Yeah, he's in background just behind Jay. That means when Jay was approaching lightspeed he was just a few steps behind. Not that the artist was thinking about depth perception and he was travelling at a random speed. Get a clue.

He went to Joan, but there was no indication that he spent the amp in that time.

Bottom line is that there is no indication that Adam is stronger than cap and cap is more durable or faster than cap. I know you've somehow convinced comicvine by a scan which shows nothing of that sort, but this isn't comicvine.
I think he's missing the last 3 zeroes at the end of the 881/890 figure you gave in your previous posts. That and the fact that he seems to be possessed of a similar line of thought as Colossus-Big C doesn't help his case either.

Originally posted by Epicurus
I think he's missing the last 3 zeroes at the end of the 881/890 figure you gave in your previous posts. That and the fact that he seems to be possessed of a similar line of thought as Colossus-Big C doesn't help his case either.
Yeah, it looks like he can't see the last three zeroes. The alternative is too absurd.

Originally posted by leonidas
i'd give adam a slight majority over ww, but she would def beat him for a few. i'd say the biggest difference would be durability, not strength or speed. give her sword and shield as well as lasso and i'd say it's a pretty dead heat.

This sums up my feelings on the subject. Add in PG and the team takes a heavy majority.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah, it looks like he can't see the last three zeroes. The alternative is too absurd.

Yeah I missed the last three zeros, probably because I always think of light speed in Kilometers/second while i think of mach speed as meters/second (like I would assume most people do, i.e simplify the figure). So I think of light speed as just under 300,000km/second where sound is 340m/s. I suspect either the writer or editor made a similar mistake because when you look at the scan where it says mach 500 there is an aimless comma just after the figure.

Doesn't change the fact that BA couldn't keep up with Jay even when he hadn't achieved light speed and was "by the images" well behind him. Nor does it change the fact that in several encounters with Jay during the period he wasn't even capable of anywhere near light speed BA was shown unable to react to Jay. We only have the one scan of BA ever being capable of doing so during Black Reign which is inconsistent with all the others.

In essence it changes nothing to the actual statement I made that BA is capable of over half light speed but not capable of attaining light speed.

Diana's best reaction feat i can recall was in a WW/Flash crossover. There was a speedster assassin who used a photonic weapon who was hired to kill Wally. She was shown able to tag him a few times and Dianna successfully defended some of her attacks (IIRC also got shot in the shoulder as well) and was able to put an arrow into the assassin that was thrown by hand. I don't believe her travel speed is superior to BA's but her reaction and combat speed certainly is.

As to thi BS about Jay being amped. The firhgt with rival was if I'm not mistaken 3 or 4 issues earlier. The scan you used of Holt saying jay had saken speed from Rival was page 8 and the "race" was page 11 after Jay went home and talked to his wife. There was a caption where eh thought he wasn't coming back this time. Joan was looking a t a photo and asked when will you talk about him. Jay then ran back to do the race. I don't ever recall wally (who's better at speed steal) being able to retain any amp that long so how would Jay

But again as I said I don't see the two of them as being able to do enough damage to him to put him down.His Durability is one of the nest in DCU and he also has an amazing Healing factor on top of that.

Originally posted by abhilegend
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mach_number#High-speed_flow_around_objectsDayum. It's actually listed somewhere. But I see they're using 761 mph for the speed of sound to get the 881,000 light-equivalent mach number. I was using 750 to get 890,000. Sometimes the speed of sound is listed as 741 mph (temperature difference), so I was using an average.

Originally posted by abhilegend
I don't even know where you got this retarded idea that mach 890 is speed of light.Maybe when I got fancy and posted "Kilomach 890"? That'll teach me to play with prefixes.

Originally posted by beatboks
Yeah I missed the last three zeros, probably because I always think of light speed in Kilometers/second while i think of mach speed as meters/second (like I would assume most people do, i.e simplify the figure). So I think of light speed as just under 300,000km/second where sound is 340m/s. I suspect either the writer or editor made a similar mistake because when you look at the scan where it says mach 500 there is an aimless comma just after the figure. Good for you. I was getting worried for you.

Of course he could. Jay IS faster than Adam but not overwhelmingly so. The only time Adam couldn't keep up with Jay was when Theo adam was in control. Black Canary was dancing around him in that issue too.

He can go near light speed. There is no indication that he can only go half light speed.

I don't recall anything like that. She has some very poor reaction feats regarding flashes. Not at all. I've read pretty much every wonder woman comic post crisis and she has never seemed on par with marvels to me in speed.

After which the rest of issues were flashbacks. It all happened simultaneously and Jay was still showing symptoms of amping when he showed up in that issue. Which is a simple thing for jay to do, it isn't even that much of a task for him. Heck once he was in two places at once, in JSA headquarters and in his own home under Johns. Then you are not aware of the ridiculous things wally has done.

I agree on that though. Cap and adam are still equal in everything.

Originally posted by Mindship
Dayum. It's actually listed somewhere. But I see they're using 761 mph for the speed of sound to get the 881,000 light-equivalent mach number. I was using 750 to get 890,000. Sometimes the speed of sound is listed as 741 mph (temperature difference), so I was using an average.

Maybe when I got fancy and posted "Kilomach 890"? That'll teach me to play with prefixes.
Serves you right.

uhuh

Originally posted by leonidas
i already said earlier that the ladies take this, imo, for a heavy majority. i think BOTH women here are being underrated by several people.

Not me Leo, I'm the biggest Wonder Woman fanboy in this forum ever.

Originally posted by Q99
You're right, WW may be less strong, but there's no way she's half as strong, not going by her feats and judging by what she can do to Superman, her moon-and-earth pullings, and so on.


Diana does have a track record demonstrating going toe-to-toe with high heralds. Heck, she's gone HtH with Doomsday.

I agree.

Black Adam wins.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Black Adam wins.

He can't beat Diana alone.

Originally posted by abhilegend


I don't recall anything like that. She has some very poor reaction feats regarding flashes. Not at all. I've read pretty much every wonder woman comic post crisis and she has never seemed on par with marvels to me in speed.

WW V2 #77 and #78. I just pulled the issues. I did however seriously miss remember it. The assassin was called mayfly. she did easily tag Wally with a few shots when he was trying to avoid. Diana however didn't dodge as i said. She fired an arrow into the barrel of mayfly's gun and was shot (in the shoulder as I'd said) when she did so. The other shots weren't dodged but limply wild shots. It also clearly stated in that issue when Diana roped Mayfly and she made a run for it that Dianna couldn't go anywhere near that fast.

Originally posted by beatboks
WW V2 #77 and #78. I just pulled the issues. I did however seriously miss remember it. The assassin was called mayfly. she did easily tag Wally with a few shots when he was trying to avoid. Diana however didn't dodge as i said. She fired an arrow into the barrel of mayfly's gun and was shot (in the shoulder as I'd said) when she did so. The other shots weren't dodged but limply wild shots. It also clearly stated in that issue when Diana roped Mayfly and she made a run for it that Dianna couldn't go anywhere near that fast.
OK. You should also remember that Wally was around mach speed at that time. Heck, in JLA issue 2 wonder woman's official speed was listed at mach 3.

http://i.imgur.com/dRsI2RE.jpg

That's a worse showing than anything I could remember from marvels.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Black Adam wins.


Now I remember! It's your posting that ended up convincing me that BA was a featless punk... Try debating using Billy's feats next time, the argument using BA's alone is rather fragile.

Originally posted by Q99
The instance Diana said was a scuffle and where she wasn't going all-out because she was too used to holding back

And he *did* KTFO J'onn, right before taking on Orion with only a bit more effort. Then Diana was actually



That's actually their *third* fight. The first was the off-screen one. The second one, DD simply one-shotted J'onn with no problem. After taking out Orion again. And then Diana was the only one who actually traded blows with him for awhile... at the end of which, she was *not* KTFO.


And sure, J'onn tackled DD later... one panel after DD'd been blasted by the Astro force. Kinda left that bit out.

WW's the only non-Superman in the entire story shown to be able to take a hit from him. And not just one, but repeated, even immediately after he took out multiple others.

Hahaha, wow. Fun fact: Not too long ago Abhil was vehemently arguing that Kalibak was stronger then Thor because he tossed him in one panel:
http://herochat.com/forum/index.php/topic,254782.msg4259987.html#msg4259987

Just so you know how consistent you can expect this argument to be.

Originally posted by h1a8
He can't beat Diana alone. What makes you say so ?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Hahaha, wow. Fun fact: Not too long ago Abhil was vehemently arguing that Kalibak was stronger then Thor because he tossed him in one panel:
http://herochat.com/forum/index.php/topic,254782.msg4259987.html#msg4259987

Just so you know how consistent you can expect this argument to be. Exposed red handed.

Originally posted by h1a8
He can't beat Diana alone.

http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h356/Virtuous_Girlhood/nono_zps324048d6.gif

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Hahaha, wow. Fun fact: Not too long ago Abhil was vehemently arguing that Kalibak was stronger then Thor because he tossed him in one panel:
http://herochat.com/forum/index.php/topic,254782.msg4259987.html#msg4259987

Just so you know how consistent you can expect this argument to be.
Manhandled him+Thor said he rivals hulk in strength+Darkseid and Access's comments that he was losing the fight. Its funny how butthurt you can be over such arguments.

Originally posted by quanchi112
What makes you say so ?

Diana is more skilled and has better combat speed feats and reaction feats.
BA is not more than 2 times stronger. But she is more than 2 times skilled than him.
She can outhit him at least 5 to 1.

Originally posted by Delta1938
http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h356/Virtuous_Girlhood/nono_zps324048d6.gif Then debate. Rebut my argument.

Originally posted by h1a8
Diana is more skilled and has better combat speed feats and reaction feats.
BA is not more than 2 times stronger. But she is more than 2 times skilled than him.
She can outhit him at least 5 to 1.

Then debate. Rebut my argument. He is stronger than she is, more ruthless, and more durable.

Prove she can outhit him 5-1. You just seem to pull numbers out of your sphincter.

Needing to outhit him 5-1 is pretty excessive. Outhitting, sure, but there should be no need for near that much. And she did outhit Superman in the HtH portions of Sacrifice, and outhit Power Girl. It's hard to say just what the ratio will be, but she is the most HtH skilled high herald in prereboot DC and is known for her fast armspeed/reflexes, while Adam isn't a martial artist and tends to be about even in hit ratio with CM.



On strength, heck, Diana's *mother* can leave high-heralds like Orion with a bloody lip from a single punch. It does strike me as silly the lengths people'll go to to deny that WW has herald-level strength despite regularly fighting and dishing damage to heralds, even high heralds.

Originally posted by Q99
Not that hard to do when Superman was fighting an imaginary opponent who is 3 feet larger than her and keep missing her. Also Adam oneshotted PG in Black Reign and one time moved so fast that she couldn't even see him, its not a good comparison to make. She isn't a high herald to begin with.



facepalm

Originally posted by abhilegend
Not that hard to do when Superman was fighting an imaginary opponent who is 3 feet larger than her and keep missing her.

Nope! Never once did he aim somewhere she wasn't, *and* he avoided her lasso and such showing he visually recognized her weapons. He grabbed her wrist, not DD's huge wrist. He didn't try and strangle a 3-foot-across DD neck. He heatvisioned at her face and looked at her when they were face to face. There wasn't an illusionary-Doomsday over here.


This has been pointed out to you before. I know you don't like admitting you're wrong, but your argument is a mix of ignoring parts of the fight and latching on to things that are demonstrably not true.





She's just widely acknowledge as a close second to one of the strongest HH, fights as a peer to high heralds often, has wins against high heralds and trans, and tends to significantly outmatch solid mid-heralds when she fights them and all that isn't enough for HH in your book?

Your complex on WW is very persistent, but you just don't have the arguments, you just have a rejection of arguments.

Originally posted by Q99
Nope! Never once did he aim somewhere she wasn't, Really? Then tell me why he is aiming HV at clouds here.

http://i.imgur.com/Z0RIaJ6.jpg
Because Max was commanding her. He did all that a doomsday who was bigger than she was. Unless you think that Wonder Woman's arms are so big that she was able to slice his throat across the room.

http://i.imgur.com/SnkTSLA.jpg


Now recall how far they were when she slit his throat.


I'm describing the fight as it is. I know what are you trying to do here and you've been trying to do that for years. It wasn't true back the, its not true now.





Superman shits on her in strength, lets be honest. You could add all of her strength feats and that wouldn't equal his feats from any chosen years from last twenty years let alone all his feats. She has shitty record against mid heralds and high heralds. If you want I could post them all.

Oh really? Post her feats which show her as a high herald. I would be glad to shatter your delusions.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He is stronger than she is, more ruthless, and more durable.

Prove she can outhit him 5-1. You just seem to pull numbers out of your sphincter.

She is more than twice more skilled. That gets her at least a 3 to 1 hit ratio. She has better reaction feats and combat speed feats. So she gets anywhere from 3 to 1 to 5 to 1 hit ratio on him.

If BA is stronger then he isn't twice as strong. WW has taken hits from the best of them and survived. If BA's durability is greater then it is by a very small amount.


Cap, Bat's, etc. has beaten beings many times their strength and durability using skill. WW and BA are much closer physically but the skill difference is the same.

Originally posted by h1a8
She is more than twice more skilled. That gets her at least a 3 to 1 hit ratio. She has better reaction feats and combat speed feats. So she gets anywhere from 3 to 1 to 5 to 1 hit ratio on him.

If BA is stronger then he isn't twice as strong. WW has taken hits from the best of them and survived. If BA's durability is greater then it is by a very small amount.


Cap, Bat's, etc. has beaten beings many times their strength and durability using skill. WW and BA are much closer physically but the skill difference is the same. So now the 5-1 is down to 3-1 but still without any evidence as to support your case.

Again, you have no evidence just thoughts of delusion.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So now the 5-1 is down to 3-1 but still without any evidence as to support your case.

Again, you have no evidence just thoughts of delusion.

Being more than twice more skilled gives at least a 3 to 1 hit ratio. This is proven only through experience.