HOM Wanda Vs Elaine Belloc

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Prep-Man
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/9116/592003-untitled_large.jpg

vs

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/46174/961380-scarlet_witch_by_kego44_large.jpg

Harbinger
Elaine.

cdtm
The Presence for spite.

guy222
elaine

Konton
Wanda would win a feat war.

cdtm
Originally posted by Konton
Wanda would win a feat war.

Anyone would win a feat war against The Presence, or The One Above All for that matter.

They don't really have any on panel feats..

Golgo13
Any opinions change with this one?

TheGodKiller
Is this the version of Elaine who inherited the demiurgic power ?

Golgo13
I think that's the only one that can stand a chance.

guy222
still elaine

Golgo13
Originally posted by Konton
Wanda would win a feat war.

Which feats?

Xplosive
Originally posted by Golgo13
Which feats?

Tearing and rearanging Marvel Omniverse instantly.

operator616
^ not sure where the "instantly" part comes from.

As for this battle:

There are 2 uber versions of Elaine. First one, when she absorbed Michael's demiurgic power (though she didn't have control over it as Michael did, at first). Then she actually became God/The Presence.

So while it's debatable whether Elaine with Michael's power could defeat Wanda, Elaine (as the Presence) absolutely stomps her.

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by operator616
There are 2 uber versions of Elaine. First one, when she absorbed Michael's demiurgic power (though she didn't have control over it as Michael did, at first).
Lucifer trained her in usage of the demiurgic energies.

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by operator616
^ not sure where the "instantly" part comes from.
I eagerly anticipate the incoming clash between you and MrMaster.

operator616
Why, does he think so too? because it was never stated, not as far as i know. And it's directly contradicted based on what was shown throughout the event (the chaos wave was gradually destroying creation, that was made pretty clear, actually.)

Mr Master
Hey there friends. ... Xp just summarized Wanda's glory.

It's a little more detailed than that.

Wanda remade 616 into 58163. When she did this, she tore a hole
in space-time withIN this "616" (58163 now). Wanda's power (chaos
wave) then spilled out of her newly remade universe through the
hole & swept an unknown number of realities into Otherworld.

In Otherworld,
Wanda's power continued to flow until it reached/Crashed down the
Starlight Citadel, which is an omniversal Nexus.
This caused all the Universes connected to mesh and basically tear to pieces.
We later learned in "Die by the Sword" that indeed,
this omniversal implosion tore everything to pieces.

Now, Roma did state after this happened that the "chaos wave"
could expand further, from the "sundered planes to the sublimity" (wtf)
"perhaps even to the Ascension itself" ('God?')

Anyway, on panel it really seemed like only 58163 (formerly 616)
& that area in Otherworld where Roma & co. stood was what was left.
Imo, writer must've been talking about obscure realms via Roma,
like the Crimson Cosmos, Atleza, Vishanti, WHR ... etc and like-
types which aren't withIN Eternity, yet still part of "creation." ... Imo at-least.

Otherwise the "new" One Above All (Claremont) just retcon that in DbtS.

-------------------------------------

That aside,
for several years now I've noted that the "Chaos Wave"
is not Wanda's top feat in HOM.

It's actually her grand finally: "No More Mutants" ...
Which reverted the Omniverse back to normality,
simultaneously remade 58163 back into 616,
coupled with also nullifying the mutant gene across countless UniverseS,
where 90+% of all mutants were affected.

That final spell, (no more mutants) was activated with a thought.
(and traversed even the 'Astral/Ethereal Planes' as presented by Strange to Beast)

cdtm
So, could Wanda defeat The Presence (By which I mean the dcu presence, not Elaine acting as such..), iyo?

Mr Master
Wanda was no doubt 'God-like,' but she was not a/the supreme being.

Although many become confused with Wanda's power boost during HOM,
it really isn't such a surprise. This reality was in the coming, from back in the day.

It's because Wanda is the 616 Nexus Being, and as such,
has potential access to the flow of energy/magic that runs through it.
(guess where the infinite alternate/diverged universes come from)

Anyway, here's a bit from 20+ years ago:

Immortus was using Wanda as a conduit to her power,
to protect 7000 years of Timelines, and to rearrange many other Timelines,
he even succeeded in accelerating her potential thus augmenting her inherent abilities.

In the end, she released her accelerated potential (this potential realized in HOM)
because she didn't want it.

When she did let go though, her power was re-arranging TimelineS left and right:

http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/16782652_Wanda_Nexus1.jpg http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/16782653_Wanda_Nexus2.jpg http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/16782654_Wanda_Nexus3.jpg http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/16782655_Wanda_Nexus4.jpg http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/16782656_Wanda_Nexus5.jpg

As you can see, even the TimeKeepers intervened
and indeed corroborated Immortus' claim about Wanda nearly breaking the Multiverse.

Anyway, I have other examples like another where Wanda defeats a multiversal power,
and yet another, where her potential is passed on to her possible children
and finally "they stand among the great forces of the universe able to rock the Cosmos."

abhilegend
It was life-force. Not wanda's potential or something.

Warlord
belloc

Mr Master
Originally posted by abhilegend

It was life-force. Not wanda's potential or something.
Actually for the prior 25 years or so it was Wanda's "Nexus Being" status
which explained her sporadic yet ridiculous power ups through the years.

Now recently (years After HOM) it's been retconned as this so-called "life-force"
being the reason behind her upgrade.

That's a nice monkey wrench thrown into the original picture if you ask me,
but I won't dispute on panel facts via retcons
even if they trump nearly 30 years of established history.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Mr Master
Actually for the prior 25 years or so it was Wanda's "Nexus Being" status
which explained her sporadic yet ridiculous power ups through the years.

Now recently (years After HOM) it's been retconned as this so-called "life-force"
being the reason behind her upgrade.

That's a nice monkey wrench thrown into the original picture if you ask me,
but I won't dispute on panel facts via retcons
even if they trump nearly 30 years of established history.
Its not upto you to decide what is canon or not. Take beyonder for example.

Mr Master
Originally posted by abhilegend

Its not upto you to decide what is canon or not.
no expression .. Which is why I said:
Originally posted by Mr Master

That's a nice monkey wrench thrown into the original picture if you ask me,
but I won't dispute on panel facts via retcons
even if they trump nearly 30 years of established history.
Which means, I accept the retcon.

operator616
That wasn't really what you'd call a regular appearance for Wanda, though. This was a stipulated scenario as well as a carefully planned one. Still, she was certainly portrayed as being "the ultimate nexus" as opposed to the others.

And recently as revealed in uncanny avengers, wanda doesn't really have to have the "life force" to redo what she did in the past, she needs a good enough power source and not necessarily life force.

Also, Mr Master, may i see the proof where the "no more mutants" returned the omniverse to normal?

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by abhilegend
It was life-force. Not wanda's potential or something.
IIRC, her status as a magical Nexus Being is what enabled her to tap into the Life-Force in the first place. That and Doom's help I presume.

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