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shin Gouki during the time of street fighter III 3rd strike vs Oro with his other arm un-bandaged. the most two powerful (story wise) characters in street fighter. who wins

Oro. And Ingrid will easily beat them both, at the same time, with no effort. They aint the strongest.

Does Ingrid appear in any other game outside of CFE?

As for the match, bit of a tough call. Their only canon match was stated by Capcom to be a draw.

Originally posted by Esomark
Does Ingrid appear in any other game outside of CFE?



SFA3 Max.

Wasn't Ingrid retconned out of the series or something?

As for the fight itself, has Oro ever been shown fighting with both arms? While he's one of maybe five or so characters that rival Akuma, IIRC the fight they had with eachother had Oro fighting with one arm (or at least I don't know if it was specified) and Akuma fighting at regular levels. While there are glimpses of what Shin Akuma's capable of, I don't recall ever hearing anything of Oro fighting without binding one of his arms.

Originally posted by BloodRawEngine
Wasn't Ingrid retconned out of the series or something?

As for the fight itself, has Oro ever been shown fighting with both arms? While he's one of maybe five or so characters that rival Akuma, IIRC the fight they had with eachother had Oro fighting with one arm (or at least I don't know if it was specified) and Akuma fighting at regular levels. While there are glimpses of what Shin Akuma's capable of, I don't recall ever hearing anything of Oro fighting without binding one of his arms.

him arm is bound all of the time, and when he was watching ryu train he said in 15 years, he might be at oro's level and said he might have to use 2 arms to fight ryu.

Originally posted by BloodRawEngine
Wasn't Ingrid retconned out of the series or something?

She never was part of the SF story but she is an official SF character, confirmed by none other than s-Kill. And during roster sessions, she is always up for consideration. I hope she never gets put in a SF game.


Originally posted by BloodRawEngine
As for the fight itself, has Oro ever been shown fighting with both arms? While he's one of maybe five or so characters that rival Akuma, IIRC the fight they had with eachother had Oro fighting with one arm (or at least I don't know if it was specified) and Akuma fighting at regular levels. While there are glimpses of what Shin Akuma's capable of, I don't recall ever hearing anything of Oro fighting without binding one of his arms.

Oro has 3 secret supers with his 2 arms. They should be on youtube somewhere.

Based on actual feats?

Gouki crushes Oro effortlessly.

But based on hype they are around the same level.

Meh. Oro seems to be stronger than Shin Akuma imo, especially if he fights him with both his arms and in his prime (30's-50's).

Besides, it's not like Shin Akuma is the strongest SF EVAR.

Gen, Gouken, Oro, Urien, Gill, and Ingrid are all on par or superior to him.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Meh. Oro seems to be stronger than Shin Akuma imo, especially if he fights him with both his arms and in his prime (30's-50's).

Besides, it's not like Shin Akuma is the strongest SF EVAR.

Gen, Gouken, Oro, Urien, Gill, and Ingrid are all on par or superior to him. Gen lost to him, Gouken was nearly killed by him, Oro and him stalemated in an unserious sparring match, Urien... Okay seriously Urien is not fit to wash anyone you mentioned's balls, let alone hang with Shin Gouki. Gill was killed by him but came back, although he is around the same level, and Ingrid is not canon.

Confused on why you did not mention Shin Bison.

Oh and Oro is actually in his prime right now I believe, his power has made him immortal, has it not?

How's Ingrid not canon?

She's confirmed to be a part of the SF storyline. She even indicates and gives a hint on Ryu's character within the future. If anyone is the most powerful SF character at this point, it's Ingrid, due to what we know of her powers, feats etc, etc. My only problem with Ingrid is that she's a "lolita" girl who's ridiculously powerful (not like we don't have enough of these stereotypes anyhow).

As for Gouki vs Oro, at this "point" one has to say a Stalemate, and that is because they've only had one match which was really just both of them testing each other out which ended in a draw. I'm sure most will know that we don't know Oro's feats when he unleashes two arms (besides his supers, but that's little to nothing), in fact we don't even know how powerful Oro is with only one arm, let alone two arms.

For those who undermine this fighter, just remember that Oro was able to convincingly beat SFIII Ryu using only one arm, which basically says one thing clearly, that Oro is an absolute monster. Considering SFIII Ryu at this point is an absolute wrecking machine and would pretty much slap everyone for free besides the absolute Super Elites in the SF World. For Oro to defeat Ryu in such a fashion just simply showcases how powerful his character truly is.

So at this moment, you would have to say that it's a draw considering not either one has displayed they are superior to the other when they have actually met canonically.

I like Ingrid. I hope she appears N more SF games.

Originally posted by Frisky Dingo
I like Ingrid. I hope she appears N more SF games. Why would you want a super Mary-Sue goddess ***** to be more prevalent in the games?

Originally posted by JustFrame


My only problem with Ingrid is that she's a "lolita" girl who's ridiculously powerful (not like we don't have enough of these stereotypes anyhow).



And what makes this worse is, SF was the only 2D fighting series NOT TO HAVE THIS. Which is why I hope to God she won't be in anymore Street Fighter games. She isn't even a bad character and her theme is pretty damn catchy but she just doesn't belong in SF. Sakura, Karin, Makoto and Cammy pulled it of so wonderfully. They weren't so irratatingly animeish.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Gen lost to him, Gouken was nearly killed by him, Oro and him stalemated in an unserious sparring match, Urien... Okay seriously Urien is not fit to wash anyone you mentioned's balls, let alone hang with Shin Gouki. Gill was killed by him but came back, although he is around the same level, and Ingrid is not canon.

Confused on why you did not mention Shin Bison.

Oh and Oro is actually in his prime right now I believe, his power has made him immortal, has it not?
I think Gen will never have the chance to fight Shin Akuma, and will likely die from his disease.
I believe, however, that they are around the same power-level.

Gouken was nearly killed by him? When did this happen? In SFIV, it seems like Gouken won their bout, since he was able to keep Ryu.

Urien is just a notch below Gill, who is arguably the strongest canon SF fighter EVAR.

In their "fight", Gill was cheapshotted by Akuma. And he instantly recovered and didn't even bother to fight back. Which only means Akuma is just fodder to him. It's not like Akuma could help further his goals anyway.

And yes, I forgot about M. Bison.
His full Psycho Power is likely equal or stronger than the Satsui No Hado.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Urien is just a notch below Gill, who is arguably the strongest canon SF fighter EVAR.

In their "fight", Gill was cheapshotted by Akuma. And he instantly recovered and didn't even bother to fight back. Which only means Akuma is just fodder to him. It's not like Akuma could help further his goals anyway.

To be honest, I absolutely do not see how Urien is more powerful then even other characters like current Ryu or Sagat. Urien is under Gill, but not just by a notch, however significantly, Gill doesn't even take his brother seriously which show cases how different these two are in powers, not to mention Urien is absolutely envious of Gill's abilities.

Also, Gill being the "most" powerful is indeed in question to debate. My only two disregards for Gill is that he did get Shungokusatsu by Gouki, regardless of it was a "cheapshot" or not, Gill should have seen it coming, and more importantly Gill did not instantly recover, by the time he resurrected Gouki had already left the scene.

The other thing is that Gill is reliant upon multiple bodies in case his current one is completely destroyed. We know Gill can manipulate Fire/Ice at will, however him technically losing to Gouki in such a way, I personally put Gill slightly below Ingrid, Gouki/Oro. Considering without Resurrection, Gill would have been flat out dead.

Originally posted by No End N Site
And what makes this worse is, SF was the only 2D fighting series NOT TO HAVE THIS. Which is why I hope to God she won't be in anymore Street Fighter games. She isn't even a bad character and her theme is pretty damn catchy but she just doesn't belong in SF. Sakura, Karin, Makoto and Cammy pulled it of so wonderfully. They weren't so irratatingly animeish. I am pretty sure Guilty Gear has no uber powerful lolitas.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
I think Gen will never have the chance to fight Shin Akuma, and will likely die from his disease.
I believe, however, that they are around the same power-level.

Gouken was nearly killed by him? When did this happen? In SFIV, it seems like Gouken won their bout, since he was able to keep Ryu.

Urien is just a notch below Gill, who is arguably the strongest canon SF fighter EVAR.

In their "fight", Gill was cheapshotted by Akuma. And he instantly recovered and didn't even bother to fight back. Which only means Akuma is just fodder to him. It's not like Akuma could help further his goals anyway.

And yes, I forgot about M. Bison.
His full Psycho Power is likely equal or stronger than the Satsui No Hado. 1. Believe all you like, without evidence it doesn't really mean anything.

2. Before the game.

3. A notch? Urien is a joke compared to Gill. Also, strongest canon SFer ever? Why? Certainly not by feats, Gouki dominates everyone in that regard.

4. Yeahno. Gouki is just fodder to him? Tell me... Who did Gill beat again? Gouki has fought and hanged with the best SF has to offer, Gill has only beat on fodder to my recollection.

5. Nah dawg.

Originally posted by NemeBro

5. Nah dawg.
You're opinion.


Full Psycho Power = Ingrid's Power >>>>>>>>>>> Satsui No Hado

Stop with the Shin Akuma wanking.
Oro with both arms, Gouken, Ingrid, and Gill are still stronger than him.

Plus, some of the developers themselves have stated that Gill is the strongest character in SF.
Developers > you.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
You're opinion.


Full Psycho Power = Ingrid's Power >>>>>>>>>>> Satsui No Hado

Stop with the Shin Akuma wanking.
Oro with both arms, Gouken, Ingrid, and Gill are still stronger than him.

Plus, some of the developers themselves have stated that Gill is the strongest character in SF.
Developers > you.

Here, let me assist you with a few factors.

Psycho Power in any form was utterly wasted by Gouki's Shun Goku Satsu. Ingrid uses far more than any Psycho Power, she is a type of Goddess, and Bison's Psycho Power is only a small fraction of that, he cannot ever acheive that level of strength, and even if he did, it won't render him suddenly unvulnerable to Satsui No Hadou, in fact, he is mre vulnerable to it BECAUSE of his Psycho Power.

Demonstrated events in cannon > Developers oppinion > you. IE: We cannot assume that the developers or anyone else is right when the game demonstrates otherwise. It's the same reason as to why an artists views are different from a writers when it comes to canon validity, neither are nessisarily wrong, so we have to rely on what is seen, and so far Gouki trumps everyone in Street Fighter.

Gouki has never demonstrated anything greater than what Gill has in Third Strike, both in-game and cinematics.


In-game:

a. Gill is the only character in SF with an unblockable Super Move (Seraphic Wing).

b. Gill is the only character who who can resurrect.

c. Gill can summon a swarm of meteors (Meteor Strike) which is > Shin Akuma's meteor-busting kick.


Cinematics:

a. Gill can split the ocean and the skies apart. That feat alone is greater than anything Shin Akuma has demonstrated.

b. Gill can manipulate people's hearts and emotions by will (like what he did to Alex)


I'm no fan of Gill, but he is stronger than Shin Akuma.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon

a. Gill is the only character in SF with an unblockable Super Move (Seraphic Wing).


You can block it, it will take away 50% of your life in chip damage, but you can still block it

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon



In-game:

a. Gill is the only character in SF with an unblockable Super Move (Seraphic Wing).


isnt the shun goku satsu unblockable

http://youtu.be/UJJekclssNI

Akuma is already dead. LOL

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
You're opinion.


Full Psycho Power = Ingrid's Power >>>>>>>>>>> Satsui No Hado

Stop with the Shin Akuma wanking.
Oro with both arms, Gouken, Ingrid, and Gill are still stronger than him.

Plus, some of the developers themselves have stated that Gill is the strongest character in SF.
Developers > you. Only... Even if Ingrid is allowed, Bison only has a mere fraction of Ingrid's power, he is like nothing to her.

Only by feats Gouki could destroy all of them, and you have shitnothing to prove your claims, I would probably accept Ingrid being stronger but that is it.

Gouki nearly killed Gouken in the backstory when they last fought.

Oro is supposed to be around Gouki's level, but he has not demonstrated nearly the same level of power.

Same with Gill, only we actually see Gouki killing Gill, albeit temporarily. Developer statements don't mean much when the game's own events contradict their statements.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
a. Gill can split the ocean and the skies apart. That feat alone is greater than anything Shin Akuma has demonstrated. So I take it you have not seen Gouki's Super Street Fighter IV ending?

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Gouki has never demonstrated anything greater than what Gill has in Third Strike, both in-game and cinematics.

If we went by your logic than Gouki has everyone beat besides Ingrid. Considering Gill has done nothing showcasing that he's a superior fighter for Gouki (Gill parting the sea isn't a "fighting power" feat, and if you equate that into fighting prowess then you must also believe that Moses must have been a powerful fighter as well).

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
In-game:

a. Gill is the only character in SF with an unblockable Super Move (Seraphic Wing).

b. Gill is the only character who who can resurrect.

c. Gill can summon a swarm of meteors (Meteor Strike) which is > Shin Akuma's meteor-busting kick.

In-Game mechanics is the biggest load of crap here which showcases nothing to how the supers would truly be like.

A. Gills Seraphic Wing being an unblockable is in In-Game mechanic not from a storyline perspective. Outside of the game, we don't know what it's potential is period, so speculation is all there is which proves nothing and doesn't mean anything as well.

B. Being able to resurrect is great, however having multiple bodies as back up shows he's not as durable as the powerful elites (Gouki, Oro, etc, etc whom only use one single body, and who's durability must be ridiculous).

C. Summoning Meteor's is nice, however we don't know for sure "how powerful" this move is as it has not been demonstrated within the storyline. I would absolutely conclude that it's very powerful indeed, however more powerful then Gouki's own supers? The real answer is...we don't know. We've at least seen a few of Gouki's feats when he unleashes them, so we can at least gauge them, but Gill's have never been demonstrated within an ending, or such that we can calculate his potential.

Gouki meteor-busting is umm...not even canon considering I believe it was done by Udon, not Capcom themselves, so unless they come out officially stating that this feat is legit, I'm going to decline it isn't.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
a. Gill can split the ocean and the skies apart. That feat alone is greater than anything Shin Akuma has demonstrated.

"Parting" the ocean and skies are indeed great feats, but they show nothing of Gill's fighting capabilities. Also, what "feats" of Shin-Gouki are you talking about, considering all of the Canon feats done by Gouki was himself not being Shin-Gouki. We have yet to see feats done by a 100% full Gouki.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
b. Gill can manipulate people's hearts and emotions by will (like what he did to Alex)

Your comparing Alex's mental capacity to Gouki's? Not to mention the most important part is that this isn't a true power of Gill, so unless you have some credible evidence showcasing that he's a telekinesis then I'll believe you. So far he's done absolutely nothing to the magnitude of what Dictator has done to make me a believer.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
I'm no fan of Gill, but he is stronger than Shin Akuma.

Again, what evidence do you have to say so otherwise? We have no real hard evidence of Shin-Gouki's capabilities since everything he's shown capable doing is an in "training mode" or a Gouki not using his full power. Did you forget the fact that when he sunk his island he was weakened by his fight by Gen, also fought Ryu, and just simply smashed his fist to the ground, and mind you A2 Gouki is nowhere near as powerful as SFIII Gouki.

We don't know a whole lot about Gill's capabilities either other then what is shown in bits and pieces. However what we do know is that Gouki landed the Shungokusatsu on Gill, and had it not of been for Resurrection, he would have been dead. That much is known, and with that indication it actually favors Gouki's case then Gills.

Again, I find it very puzzling that you would claim Gill>Gouki when Gouki has actually killed Gill once already, and more importantly Gill has shown nothing to prove he's the superior fighter. By the time SFIII comes around only Oro has been proven to put a draw stalemate to Gouki, and "if" I was to rank the list then only those two would stand together with Ingrid above them.

To end, I believe it's incredibly "hard" to gauge the Top-Tiers of the SF world because either many are missing feats or anything showcasing their powers, they have never fought one another or all of the above etc, etc.

However "if" I was forced to put a list of the Top-3 I would say again Ingrid is #1, again, it's hard not to argue this, when she stated that being punched by a SFer is like being tickled and we know characters like Ryu can punch hard enough to send out sonic boom shockwaves, while Gouki can sink islands and split mountains. She also has telekinetic powers, she also can time travel, she's also a Goddess (Higher class then the "Demi-God" status given to Gill).

Gouki/Oro, simply because Gouki was able to land the Shungoksatsu on Gill and kill him out right and his feat demonstrations surpass anything anyother SF character has been shown capable of doing. While Oro was able to fight into a stalemate with Gouki so he is at least on par with Gouki in potential. <--- All of this being based from what we DO know of the characters at this point.

Yes, thus far, from a storyline and evidence standpoint, I would consider Gouki stronger then Gill.

Originally posted by JustFrame


A. Gills Seraphic Wing being an unblockable is in In-Game mechanic not from a storyline perspective.

Again, Seraphic Wing is not unblockable.

And while I will defend Gill being, at least, equal to Shin Akuma in an all out war to the death. Gill as a fighter is nothing to Akuma. He can't even beat Alex in a regular martial arts match.

Likely they just confused 'not able to be blocked' with 'not able to be parried'.

Yeah, you can't parry that shit. I thought that it was just impossibly hard to parry but then I tried to do it and found out when the move is activated, parrying becomes disabled.

Originally posted by No End N Site
And while I will defend Gill being, at least, equal to Shin Akuma in an all out war to the death. Gill as a fighter is nothing to Akuma. He can't even beat Alex in a regular martial arts match.

The problem I find with being equal to Shin Gouki is that we have never seen Gouki at 100% while displaying feats, where as we are witness to his already ridiculous feats which doesn't show him at 100% potential. However the most important factor is that besides "parting the sea" with Gill, it is almost impossible to gauge his potential which is the real problem.

That's why I only go on the fact that Gouki killed Gill, where as Gill has never done anything to prove he was stronger then or equal to Gouki (again limited feats and demonstration of Gill makes it that way), so "if" I were to state who would win a fight between these two, I would favor Gouki. Gill has shown no answer for Shungokusatsu besides resurrection however how much can Gill's body take such punishment before he's in need of a new one?

Anyhow, we've detracted away enough from the topic at hand.

Gouki vs Oro would be a toss up simply because they've only fought once which lead to a stalemate and it was just the two testing each others strength. Had the two gone full out, one would assume that it would be very equal. In my opinion this fight would have been a spectacular one to watch and see.

well gills resurection shows that the shun goku satsu doesnt work on him, plus his extra bodies could be so he doesnt die of old age, but the fact that alex beat gill, and alex couldnt even touch ryu shows that gill would still loose to akuma without the shungoku satsu

Originally posted by JustFrame
The problem I find with being equal to Shin Gouki is that we have never seen Gouki at 100% while displaying feats, where as we are witness to his already ridiculous feats which doesn't show him at 100% potential. However the most important factor is that besides "parting the sea" with Gill, it is almost impossible to gauge his potential which is the real problem.

That's why I only go on the fact that Gouki killed Gill, where as Gill has never done anything to prove he was stronger then or equal to Gouki (again limited feats and demonstration of Gill makes it that way), so "if" I were to state who would win a fight between these two, I would favor Gouki. Gill has shown no answer for Shungokusatsu besides resurrection however how much can Gill's body take such punishment before he's in need of a new one?



We have not seen Gill's full potential either. I am just assuming that Capcom intends for all of its bosses to be equal, 'cept Seth. We know Gill was killed by Akuma, we don't know if Gill took Akuma seriously, if the SGS was a sneak attack or any specifics at all, we don't know what happened. All we know is that Akuma used the SGS move and killed Gill and Gill simply rose from his death some time later.

So I would simply say a tie becuase it's clear that Akuma can't kill Gill for good and we don't know how much power Gill can really dish out at 100%. I did read in SF20 that Gill was "the strongest Street Fighter boss yet." Not sure if that was just Ikeno talkin about gameplay or not.

Originally posted by No End N Site
We have not seen Gill's full potential either. I am just assuming that Capcom intends for all of its bosses to be equal, 'cept Seth. We know Gill was killed by Akuma, we don't know if Gill took Akuma seriously, if the SGS was a sneak attack or any specifics at all, we don't know what happened. All we know is that Akuma used the SGS move and killed Gill and Gill simply rose from his death some time later.

So I would simply say a tie becuase it's clear that Akuma can't kill Gill for good and we don't know how much power Gill can really dish out at 100%. I did read in SF20 that Gill was "the strongest Street Fighter boss yet." Not sure if that was just Ikeno talkin about gameplay or not.

Firstly, just because your the final boss doesn't mean that you are more powerful, that usually isn't the case, SF2 Dictator for example. Even Dictator most likely didn't become the "super powerhouse" he truly was until Alpha 3 either.

Honestly, I don't see how you could not take Gouki seriously even if you were Gill, the fact that SGS works like a charm on him would make him think twice before underestimating him. Yes, atm you have to say its a tie simply because we have no proof to prove either is stronger, however with that single occurrence, I would give the benefit of the doubt to Gouki.

Simply because if Gouki lands SGS (which isn't a problem, he's landed it up against the greatest fighters in the SF world) and Gill goes down dead, whats to stop Gouki from beating the rag doll out of Gill while he's still waiting to resurrect?

Just simply because Gill was able to resurrect doesn't mean that his body can't be destroyed, otherwise why the need for numerous bodies. So the case scenario of Gouki being able to beat Gill is very real, since Gouki has already killed Gill once before already.

So judging by that, if I was to make the most "educated" guess at this moment, I would favor Gouki. The "strongest boss yet" was implying in-game (which necessarily isn't true considering ST. Gouki, A2 Gouki, WW Dictator were all ridiculous in their own right), not storyline wise, otherwise Capcom would have stated this on their official AASF or AAC books.

Originally posted by JustFrame
Firstly, just because your the final boss doesn't mean that you are more powerful, that usually isn't the case, SF2 Dictator for example. Even Dictator most likely didn't become the "super powerhouse" he truly was until Alpha 3 either.

Honestly, I don't see how you could not take Gouki seriously even if you were Gill, the fact that SGS works like a charm on him would make him think twice before underestimating him. Yes, atm you have to say its a tie simply because we have no proof to prove either is stronger, however with that single occurrence, I would give the benefit of the doubt to Gouki.

Simply because if Gouki lands SGS (which isn't a problem, he's landed it up against the greatest fighters in the SF world) and Gill goes down dead, whats to stop Gouki from beating the rag doll out of Gill while he's still waiting to resurrect?

Just simply because Gill was able to resurrect doesn't mean that his body can't be destroyed, otherwise why the need for numerous bodies. So the case scenario of Gouki being able to beat Gill is very real, since Gouki has already killed Gill once before already.

So judging by that, if I was to make the most "educated" guess at this moment, I would favor Gouki. The "strongest boss yet" was implying in-game (which necessarily isn't true considering ST. Gouki, A2 Gouki, WW Dictator were all ridiculous in their own right), not storyline wise, otherwise Capcom would have stated this on their official AASF or AAC books.

1. Bison was the final boss in SF2 'and' the 2nd strongest character. 2nd only to the 'Super' secret final boss. I haven't seen a SF game where the boss was surpassed by normal playable characters.

2. Given Gill's personality and the fact that he's above the whole "warrior"/pointless fighting thing; I think he would look at Akuma as just another fighter. I seriously doubt Gill was giving it his all, he doesn't even mention the event at all in 3rd Strike.

3. There is no proof that Akuma can hit an all out sea splitting, mountain raising, meteor showering Gill with an SGS. Hitting Gill with the SGS under unknown circumstances is not enough for me to give Akuma the blind edge. And I seriously doubt that Akuma would know that Gill can resurrect or that he'd do something as digraceful as beat up Gill's apparent dead body. He sure didn't do it in 2nd Imapct.

4. FYI, The Illuminati does 'not' have spare bodies, they have spare brains. So that pretty much does away with the "Gill Has Spare Bodies Cuz He's Not Tough Theory." Where did you guys get that from?

5. So if Akuma is the toughest boss in gameplay and they say Gill is the strongest SF boss yet, what exactly do they mean?

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Gen, Gouken, Oro, Urien, Gill, and Ingrid are all on par or superior to him.

Captain Commando belongs here too. He and the rest of the cast of his game are in the SF universe (partly due to Ginzu the Ninja and the setting is future Metro City) and according to the info I've read from him, he's very powerful. Tiatmat's plot FAQ does dispute the canocity of Captain Commando though, probably because of the game's satirical take on super heroes and stuff.

Only three (Gouken, Oro & Gill) of those people could be arguably on par with Gouki, while one (Ingrid) is vastly superior. The other two (Gen & Urien) are below him.

Ok here we go.

Gill, Akuma, Oro, Shin Bison and Gouken are all top tier. Their powers aren't shown at Max per se, but after the retcon it seems pretty intended for Gouken and Akuma to be equal.

Oro is intended to be as well, for the time being. The reason Akuma gets so much praise is that he has more feats. I just had this discussion elsewhere about how more popular characters win because of this. Shin Bison was powerful and in the (non-canon) ending of CFE smoked Gill, but then Gill resurrected, who knows on that one.

Ingrid is highly powerful and was interesting to play, but yea, her character type is bleh. Though I bet many are more annoyed that she has the potential to overpower their favorite guys. I don't know how much of her story is true or valid though, she seems kind of "meh" (Bison stealing her powers instead of honing his power) make him just not the same

Didn't guilty gear have Dizzy?

Originally posted by Tha C-Master


Ingrid is highly powerful and was interesting to play, but yea, her character type is bleh. Though I bet many are more annoyed that she has the potential to overpower their favorite guys. I don't know how much of her story is true or valid though, she seems kind of "meh" (Bison stealing her powers instead of honing his power) make him just not the same

Didn't guilty gear have Dizzy?

Yep, Dizzy is from Guilty Gear. She's on GG's top tier as well.

I don't know enough on Ingrid because I only really played CFE once and never saw her (must have not met the right conditions to face her). Whether she is canon or not is a huge matter of dispute.
I'm surprised to hear Bison stole her power. I thought she was a goddess or something.

-edit-

Originally posted by Esomark
Yep, Dizzy is from Guilty Gear. She's on GG's top tier as well.

I don't know enough on Ingrid because I only really played CFE once and never saw her (must have not met the right conditions to face her). Whether she is canon or not is a huge matter of dispute.
I'm surprised to hear Bison stole her power. I thought she was a goddess or something.

He took a "little piece" of her power from under her nose, not knowing it actually belonged to Ingrid. He just happened to stumble upon it one day, which makes her story bizzare. It was very miniscule to her but able to cause chaos on Earth. She didn't even notice the power was gone until Bison started using the piece he had for world domination.

This may be stupid but I think she IS canon.







http://x-ism.com/2010/04/19/exclusive-x-ism-interviews-capcoms-seth-killian/

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Ok here we go.

Gill, Akuma, Oro, Shin Bison and Gouken are all top tier. Their powers aren't shown at Max per se, but after the retcon it seems pretty intended for Gouken and Akuma to be equal.

Oro is intended to be as well, for the time being. The reason Akuma gets so much praise is that he has more feats. I just had this discussion elsewhere about how more popular characters win because of this. Shin Bison was powerful and in the (non-canon) ending of CFE smoked Gill, but then Gill resurrected, who knows on that one.

Ingrid is highly powerful and was interesting to play, but yea, her character type is bleh. Though I bet many are more annoyed that she has the potential to overpower their favorite guys. I don't know how much of her story is true or valid though, she seems kind of "meh" (Bison stealing her powers instead of honing his power) make him just not the same

Didn't guilty gear have Dizzy?

Hey man, s'up!

If Ingrid is canon, which she most probably is, then she's inarguably the strongest SF yet.

As for the match, Shin Gouki has a long way to go if all he can do is stalemate a 1-Armed Oro.
Whether or not he was holding back, it doesn't matter. If Shin Gouki is truly one of the strongest, he should've pummeled Oro to death even in their first encounter. Considering his feats, a stalemate is not impressive.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
If Ingrid is canon, which she most probably is, then she's inarguably the strongest SF yet.

As for the match, Shin Gouki has a long way to go if all he can do is stalemate a 1-Armed Oro.
Whether or not he was holding back, it doesn't matter. If Shin Gouki is truly one of the strongest, he should've pummeled Oro to death even in their first encounter. Considering his feats, a stalemate is not impressive. Gouki was holding back in the fight too.

Stop making stupid statements without actually reading people's posts.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Gouki was holding back in the fight too.

Stop making stupid statements without actually reading people's posts.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon

"Whether or not he was holding back, it doesn't matter. If Shin Gouki is truly one of the strongest, he should've pummeled Oro to death even in their first encounter. Considering his feats, a stalemate is not impressive."

Stop making stupid statements without actually reading people's posts.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Stop making stupid statements without actually reading people's posts.

What I want to know is, why do you think that makes Gouki weak in any way shape or form?

1 armed Oro vs non-shin Gouki is entirely feasable as a stalemate, especially considering oro using 2 arms is a vast unknown, and that a holding back Gouki has done feats well beyond anything every other SFer has ever accomplished. If he goes into true power mode, he stomps almost any other rather handily.

Except that is not the case.

We all know he has the feats to back him up.
But alas, even characters with little to no feats are considered by most to be above his power level, like Ingrid.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Except that is not the case.

We all know he has the feats to back him up.
But alas, even characters with little to no feats are considered by most to be above his power level, like Ingrid.

Which is why I said "Almost". Although, Igrid is a relative unknown herself.

In fact, I think by lore only, Ingrid may be the nly one who is stronger than Gouki, but in every other sense, he edges her out...

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
like Ingrid.

1. She is immrotal.

2. A sun goddess who slaps people with star energy.

3. She can time travel at will with no prep.

4. She has psychic powers FAR beyond Rose and Bison. She effortlessly silenced the Dark Hadou in Ryu.

5. She can fly into space unaided easily, lord knows how fast. Not to mention she flew into space while carrying that GIANT statue in the background of Sagat's stage.

6. She TKed a sky scrapper sized statue into space with VERY little effort.

7. The city vaporizing Psycho Power is considered to be a "piece" of her overall power. She literaly calls the power M.Bison weilds a "small piece" of her power that she didn't even notice was gone.

So yeah, she's not over Akuma for no reason.

Originally posted by No End N Site




http://x-ism.com/2010/04/19/exclusive-x-ism-interviews-capcoms-seth-killian/





I think that confirms it! Nice Nterview, 2.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Except that is not the case.

We all know he has the feats to back him up.
But alas, even characters with little to no feats are considered by most to be above his power level, like Ingrid. Name one other character other than Mary-Suebitch please.

Oro sure as hell hasn't proven it.

Both were holding back, and were at a stalemate.

So... Why is that unimpressive for Gouki?

Originally posted by No End N Site
2. Given Gill's personality and the fact that he's above the whole "warrior"/pointless fighting thing; I think he would look at Akuma as just another fighter. I seriously doubt Gill was giving it his all, he doesn't even mention the event at all in 3rd Strike.

This isn't the first time we've seen a "boss" in SF whom viewed all others as just merely fighters, considering Dictator did it all the time during Alpha, Seth did it during SF4, this personality is apparent in most SF bosses, only their main objectives of each one is different. There are multiple factors here, however simply because they "view" others as simply just fighters doesn't really mean anything.

Also Gill not mentioning about Gouki's incident really lends no credibility, considering I could just as well say that Gouki not talking about Gill post his SGS on him means that Gouki also doesn't equate Gill to being all that either. That's just terrible ploting by Capcom into really not giving more information pertaining to this.

I mean, if you want to get that technical then why is it that when Oro was present during the SF3 storyline and he was literally searching for a "worthy opponent", why is it that he was able to only draw upon Gouki's strength but not Gill's? To me, that leads to at least some speculation because why Gouki's power, but not Gill's?

So Gill not mentioning Gouki SGSing him means nothing, for all we know, Gill didn't want to tell people that he got killed by a mere fighter in his eyes.

Originally posted by No End N Site
3. There is no proof that Akuma can hit an all out sea splitting, mountain raising, meteor showering Gill with an SGS. Hitting Gill with the SGS under unknown circumstances is not enough for me to give Akuma the blind edge. And I seriously doubt that Akuma would know that Gill can resurrect or that he'd do something as digraceful as beat up Gill's apparent dead body. He sure didn't do it in 2nd Imapct.

I never said it was a perfect fact, however regardless of the circumstances, Gouki did kill Gill, and thus with this, we know at least one thing. That Gill has nothing to prevent him from getting killed by the SGS, and honestly, Gouki only "left" the scene was because he presumed Gill was dead. The circumstances would potentially had been different if he knew Gill had resurrection.

Also, your not thinking Gouki like, considering he would use every means possible to win, so I wouldn't be surprised even if it meant him destroying Gill's body to achieve victory after Gill was dead. Considering if Gouki were to confront Gill again and notice that he was still alive.

Originally posted by No End N Site
4. FYI, The Illuminati does 'not' have spare bodies, they have spare brains. So that pretty much does away with the "Gill Has Spare Bodies Cuz He's Not Tough Theory." Where did you guys get that from?

Taken directly from the pgvGill canon Guide

"He can also resurrect himself, even from death (if something ever
somehow manages to kill him in the first place). And even then, his
organization, like Shadaloo, also makes back-up bodies for him (you can see
one in Urien's Third Strike ending, too). Though his organization makes
much better back-up bodies than Shadaloo did, so no "Gill being in a new
weaker body" for Gill."

Nothing more needs to be said.

Originally posted by No End N Site
5. So if Akuma is the toughest boss in gameplay and they say Gill is the strongest SF boss yet, what exactly do they mean?

Unless it was directly indicated towards the plot, which with the evidence and every canon SF guide pertaining to the storyline that we have available has shown nothing to credit this, then it's obvious it would pertain to Gill as the end-game boss.

Again, nothing in the AASF says that Gill is the most powerful boss "storyline wise", nor does that show up in the AAC either. The only way I would believe the above statement as pertaining 100% to the storyline was if the interview indicated it directly, in which it did not. Considering this factor, that when Capcom has indicated to such a thing and that they mean it for the plot and not the game, that they will directly state that.

For example, with Ryu dodging bullets, they even emphasized in the interview that within the storyline and real world of SF that Ryu would be capable of such a feat. Nothing of that magnitude was put into emphasis with Gill other then "strongest boss". Boss most likely meaning "end-game" boss.

Considering when it comes to in-game bosses, these guys don't have a clue what they are talking about. There was numerous bosses prior to Gill whom were ridiculously stupid, A2 Gouki, ST Gouki, WW. Dictator (dual scissor kicks ='s over half life plus dizzy), even A3 Dictator was dumb only for the fact of his Psycho Crusher Super etc, etc.

Originally posted by JustFrame
This isn't the first time we've seen a "boss" in SF whom viewed all others as just merely fighters, considering Dictator did it all the time during Alpha, Seth did it during SF4, this personality is apparent in most SF bosses, only their main objectives of each one is different. There are multiple factors here, however simply because they "view" others as simply just fighters doesn't really mean anything.

Also Gill not mentioning about Gouki's incident really lends no credibility, considering I could just as well say that Gouki not talking about Gill post his SGS on him means that Gouki also doesn't equate Gill to being all that either. That's just terrible ploting by Capcom into really not giving more information pertaining to this.

I mean, if you want to get that technical then why is it that when Oro was present during the SF3 storyline and he was literally searching for a "worthy opponent", why is it that he was able to only draw upon Gouki's strength but not Gill's? To me, that leads to at least some speculation because why Gouki's power, but not Gill's?

So Gill not mentioning Gouki SGSing him means nothing, for all we know, Gill didn't want to tell people that he got killed by a mere fighter in his eyes.



I never said it was a perfect fact, however regardless of the circumstances, Gouki did kill Gill, and thus with this, we know at least one thing. That Gill has nothing to prevent him from getting killed by the SGS, and honestly, Gouki only "left" the scene was because he presumed Gill was dead. The circumstances would potentially had been different if he knew Gill had resurrection.

Also, your not thinking Gouki like, considering he would use every means possible to win, so I wouldn't be surprised even if it meant him destroying Gill's body to achieve victory after Gill was dead. Considering if Gouki were to confront Gill again and notice that he was still alive.



Taken directly from the pgvGill canon Guide

"He can also resurrect himself, even from death (if something ever
somehow manages to kill him in the first place). And even then, his
organization, like Shadaloo, also makes back-up bodies for him (you can see
one in Urien's Third Strike ending, too). Though his organization makes
much better back-up bodies than Shadaloo did, so no "Gill being in a new
weaker body" for Gill."

Nothing more needs to be said.



Unless it was directly indicated towards the plot, which with the evidence and every canon SF guide pertaining to the storyline that we have available has shown nothing to credit this, then it's obvious it would pertain to Gill as the end-game boss.

Again, nothing in the AASF says that Gill is the most powerful boss "storyline wise", nor does that show up in the AAC either. The only way I would believe the above statement as pertaining 100% to the storyline was if the interview indicated it directly, in which it did not. Considering this factor, that when Capcom has indicated to such a thing and that they mean it for the plot and not the game, that they will directly state that.

For example, with Ryu dodging bullets, they even emphasized in the interview that within the storyline and real world of SF that Ryu would be capable of such a feat. Nothing of that magnitude was put into emphasis with Gill other then "strongest boss". Boss most likely meaning "end-game" boss.

Considering when it comes to in-game bosses, these guys don't have a clue what they are talking about. There was numerous bosses prior to Gill whom were ridiculously stupid, A2 Gouki, ST Gouki, WW. Dictator (dual scissor kicks ='s over half life plus dizzy), even A3 Dictator was dumb only for the fact of his Psycho Crusher Super etc, etc.

1. Dude, my point was that Gill may not view Akuma as anything special right off the bat and that Akuma coulda SGSed Gill right off the bat.

Also, Gill not mentioning his death by the hands of Akuma has more credibilty than you give credit for. Akuma would not mention how he kills people cuz that aint who he is. I never hear Akuma talk about any of the people he's defeated unless he is facing them once again.

Also, from what the OFFICIAL plot illustrates. Oro did not intentionally seek out Akuma to fight him, they just happened to run into each other and Akuma started talking shit about how he was a master and Oro said "You have a long way to go on that path, let's walk it now." Oro wasn't looking for Akuma just like he wasn't looking for Gill. Oro doesn't think very highly of Akuma, you can tell by the in game dialouge.

2. You can't prove Akuma was at full power and you can't prove Gill was at full power. You can't prove Akuma didn't sneak attack Gill, you can't prove that Gill at full power doesn't have any means to ward off an SGS. You can't, WE can't prove anything so there is no way you can justify making claims from thin air and little evidence. And you just can't go assuming limits on characters despite the fact that they have showed none when at full power.

Also, you seem to forget that Akuma does have a code of honor and wont do 'anything' to win, Akuma wont dishonor himself for a win. He didn't even see honor in killing a sick Gen. He spoke about how Bison was a disgrace for using the P.Drive even though it provided Bison with the power to defeat damn near anyone.

3. The "pgvGill canon Guide" is clearly wrong in this reguard. Urien's ending says nothing about bodies, only brains. I'm going to go with the actual game over whoever's unofficial guide when it comes to this.

Here ya'go.
XjY7_-F0J8A

4. Honestly, this all goes down to opinion, I think ST Akuma and WW. Bison are the only bosses that are more powerful than Gill in terms of gameplay. These 3 bosses are the only bosses I will lose to before I win.

Originally posted by No End N Site
1. Dude, my point was that Gill may not view Akuma as anything special right off the bat and that Akuma coulda SGSed Gill right off the bat.

Which really lends to nothing for Gill's credibility, nor does it change the situation that Gouki killed Gill regardless of what may have occured.

Originally posted by No End N Site
Also, Gill not mentioning his death by the hands of Akuma has more credibilty than you give credit for. Akuma would not mention how he kills people cuz that aint who he is. I never hear Akuma talk about any of the people he's defeated unless he is facing them once again.

How does this make for any credibility? I mean, if I wanted to pick it like you did, I could say well he is hiding the very fact that he was beaten down by someone whom he may have felt "inferior" to himself. Again, this is straw man theory because it lends nothing to Gill's credibility other then he doesn't mention it. This is a baseless and pointless argument.

Originally posted by No End N Site
Also, from what the OFFICIAL plot illustrates. Oro did not intentionally seek out Akuma to fight him, they just happened to run into each other and Akuma started talking shit about how he was a master and Oro said "You have a long way to go on that path, let's walk it now." Oro wasn't looking for Akuma just like he wasn't looking for Gill. Oro doesn't think very highly of Akuma, you can tell by the in game dialouge.

Oro has been
sensing some powerful ki for some time. He finally tracks it down and
finds Gouki! Out of curiousity to see how powerful each other is, they
fight - Translated from the Canon Guide which was taken from the AASF Guide book.

I will not explain this again, and I only used this as an example to your notion of Gill not speaking about himself getting SGS by Gouki.

Originally posted by No End N Site
2. You can't prove Akuma was at full power and you can't prove Gill was at full power. You can't prove Akuma didn't sneak attack Gill, you can't prove that Gill at full power doesn't have any means to ward off an SGS. You can't, WE can't prove anything so there is no way you can justify making claims from thin air and little evidence. And you just can't go assuming limits on characters despite the fact that they have showed none when at full power.

You need to stop putting words into my mouth.

I stated, that from what we have seen between Gouki and Gill, and the fact that Gouki has killed Gill once, that if I was to "choose" who would have the edge, I would vouch for Gouki, considering we have nothing at this point that shows that Gill is stronger. All we know is that Gouki killed Gill once regardless of how it may have "happened".

Considering Capcom never came out and said "It was a cheap shot" by Gouki either, because they would have if this was the case. Considering they pushed for this notion when Ryu Metsu-Shoryuken Sagat, however why not make this claim for this as well within the AASF guide? Makes no sense to me.

So, if I was to say "who" would have the edge, I would push it for Gouki, because he's already killed Gill once. That can't be refuted, and at least gives some credibility for Gouki, while not the other way around for Gill.

That's what I'm saying, now do we know 100%, of course not, considering alot of stuff isn't fully 100%. However from what we do know at least, Gouki killed Gill, which again, holds credibility over Gill, while Gill has nothing that can be claimed the other way around.

This is why I stated earlier in my other post "if" I was to choose, that I would push for Gouki's case over Gill. You need to stop thinking that I'm trying to put this into canon that Gouki is factually 100% over Gill, which is what you are assuming.

Originally posted by No End N Site
Also, you seem to forget that Akuma does have a code of honor and wont do 'anything' to win, Akuma wont dishonor himself for a win. He didn't even see honor in killing a sick Gen. He spoke about how Bison was a disgrace for using the P.Drive even though it provided Bison with the power to defeat damn near anyone.

Gouki fighting a sick Gen is completely different because Gen couldn't fight Gouki at full strength. That's a completely different perspective here, and Dictator's scenario is also different because Dictator did not "earn" his strength.

How would Gill's scenario be anywhere close to these two? Gill earned his stripes (didn't "cheat" like Dictator), and Gill is not falling to an ailment mind you, so the situation for Gill is not even close to Dictator's or Gen's.

This is why I said that if the solution of defeating Gill meant killing him, which means destroying his body if he got hit by a SGS, then I wouldn't be surprised if he destroyed the body to do so if it meant victory. The only reason why Gill survives is because Gouki thought Gill was dead and most importantly didn't know about the Resurrection and thus left the scene.

Originally posted by No End N Site
3. The "pgvGill canon Guide" is clearly wrong in this reguard. Urien's ending says nothing about bodies, only brains. I'm going to go with the actual game over whoever's unofficial guide when it comes to this.

AASF guide, which is the canon japanese book for this. You can even ask for it and get the exact translation (not everything from the AASF of course, but it does state about Gill using bodies similar to Dictator but better ones) at srk.com. Considering these books were released afterwards of the SFIII series games, so whatever they state in there will actually override anything that is made through the game unless stated otherwise.

Originally posted by No End N Site
4. Honestly, this all goes down to opinion, I think ST Akuma and WW. Bison are the only bosses that are more powerful than Gill in terms of gameplay. These 3 bosses are the only bosses I will lose to before I win.

A2 Gouki blows all of them out of the water, he had a nearly full screen Asura Warp with almost instantaneous recovery. He did boat loads of damage, while not having any of that handicap crappy life, he had dual Aerial Fireballs that traveled at two completely different angles making it impossible to not block one or get hit by the other (This was the single most broken aerial fireball version of any other Gouki before or after, considering all other versions, the two projectiles travel very close to one another). His SGS alone does around 70% life, and his other supers are off the charts.

Add all of that together and he was ridiculous, and easily the most powerful boss you ever fought from the legit SF series.

Originally posted by JustFrame
Which really lends to nothing for Gill's credibility, nor does it change the situation that Gouki killed Gill regardless of what may have occured.



How does this make for any credibility? I mean, if I wanted to pick it like you did, I could say well he is hiding the very fact that he was beaten down by someone whom he may have felt "inferior" to himself. Again, this is straw man theory because it lends nothing to Gill's credibility other then he doesn't mention it. This is a baseless and pointless argument.



Oro has been
sensing some powerful ki for some time. He finally tracks it down and
finds Gouki! Out of curiousity to see how powerful each other is, they
fight - Translated from the Canon Guide which was taken from the AASF Guide book.

I will not explain this again, and I only used this as an example to your notion of Gill not speaking about himself getting SGS by Gouki.



You need to stop putting words into my mouth.

I stated, that from what we have seen between Gouki and Gill, and the fact that Gouki has killed Gill once, that if I was to "choose" who would have the edge, I would vouch for Gouki, considering we have nothing at this point that shows that Gill is stronger. All we know is that Gouki killed Gill once regardless of how it may have "happened".

Considering Capcom never came out and said "It was a cheap shot" by Gouki either, because they would have if this was the case. Considering they pushed for this notion when Ryu Metsu-Shoryuken Sagat, however why not make this claim for this as well within the AASF guide? Makes no sense to me.

So, if I was to say "who" would have the edge, I would push it for Gouki, because he's already killed Gill once. That can't be refuted, and at least gives some credibility for Gouki, while not the other way around for Gill.

That's what I'm saying, now do we know 100%, of course not, considering alot of stuff isn't fully 100%. However from what we do know at least, Gouki killed Gill, which again, holds credibility over Gill, while Gill has nothing that can be claimed the other way around.

This is why I stated earlier in my other post "if" I was to choose, that I would push for Gouki's case over Gill. You need to stop thinking that I'm trying to put this into canon that Gouki is factually 100% over Gill, which is what you are assuming.



Gouki fighting a sick Gen is completely different because Gen couldn't fight Gouki at full strength. That's a completely different perspective here, and Dictator's scenario is also different because Dictator did not "earn" his strength.

How would Gill's scenario be anywhere close to these two? Gill earned his stripes (didn't "cheat" like Dictator), and Gill is not falling to an ailment mind you, so the situation for Gill is not even close to Dictator's or Gen's.

This is why I said that if the solution of defeating Gill meant killing him, which means destroying his body if he got hit by a SGS, then I wouldn't be surprised if he destroyed the body to do so if it meant victory. The only reason why Gill survives is because Gouki thought Gill was dead and most importantly didn't know about the Resurrection and thus left the scene.



AASF guide, which is the canon japanese book for this. You can even ask for it and get the exact translation (not everything from the AASF of course, but it does state about Gill using bodies similar to Dictator but better ones) at srk.com. Considering these books were released afterwards of the SFIII series games, so whatever they state in there will actually override anything that is made through the game unless stated otherwise.



A2 Gouki blows all of them out of the water, he had a nearly full screen Asura Warp with almost instantaneous recovery. He did boat loads of damage, while not having any of that handicap crappy life, he had dual Aerial Fireballs that traveled at two completely different angles making it impossible to not block one or get hit by the other (This was the single most broken aerial fireball version of any other Gouki before or after, considering all other versions, the two projectiles travel very close to one another). His SGS alone does around 70% life, and his other supers are off the charts.

Add all of that together and he was ridiculous, and easily the most powerful boss you ever fought from the legit SF series.

1. You don't know what happened before Gill was SGSed, I'm gonna leave it at that.

2. The "what if" you make is silly and wrong simply cuz we know that's not part of Gill's character. He is shown to be an honorable man who has no problem losing to people and only fights in fair matches. He wouldn't be embarrased cuz he lost to Akuma, he sure wasn't when he lost to Alex, Urien, Dudley and Ibuki. He actually didn't care in the slightest

3. I have never seen that before and it was never mentioned in the game or the SFEC. The in-game dialouge clearly shows that the 2 ran into one another. I don't believe what you have posted. I'm still going with the game on this one.

4. And your missing my point, I'm saying your logic is faulty cuz you don't have sufficient evidence to choose Akuma over Gill. Akuma won in a vauge scuffle neither character cares all too much about. We KNOW that Akuma killed Gill with an SGS and we KNOW that Gill never takes his fights seriously cuz he has grander goals in mind.

The point is Capcom didn't come out and say anything at all about the fight except Gill was KILLED by the SGS and casualy Ressurected. The man can revive from being SGSed. No tricks, no comas, just get up like it didn't happpen, like he didn't just croak some time ago. You're not giving Gill any credit at all. I don't see any evidence to give Akuma any edge. Like I said, I think Capcom intends for all the bosses to be equal. It's like saying Sagat can beat SFIII Ryu cuz we know in canon that he was stronger than SFI Ryu.

5. This scenario holds much whieght cuz you're potraying Akuma as an honorless bastard and I gave examples of how Akuma does have honor. If he wouldn't kill a sick gen and wouldn't use the P.Drive, if he holds back from killing weaklings, I don't see how Akuma would go about beating the tar outta dead body. You are also assuming that Akuma knows Gill "earned" his power and that he can Ressurect. Akuma doesn't know anything about Gill.

6. I'm going to have to do that cuz that translation sounds like it's wrong, cuz the game says other wise and SF is now owned by Capcom USA. So I'm siding with the official english translation for now until stated otherwise. I was also told that as SF's popularity continues to rejuvinate, the JP books will be re-released in english as time passes.

7. Is "A2", Alpha 2? If so, dude is not that hard to me. The man has broken tactics but the CPU hardly uses them. I mean, all Gill has to do is taunt and any of his supers will kill you instantly and do 60% of your health when you block.

Originally posted by No End N Site
1.

Which again, lends zero to your credibility, yes we don't know what happened prior too, however we do know what the outcome is, which is more important. Gouki killed Gill, simple here.

Originally posted by No End N Site
2.

Your trying to compare Dudley, Alex, Urien, and Ibuki to Gouki? Is that even a logical statement here? Gill when fighting "most" opponents is just merely testing them, he is not "trying" to kill those fighters that you are stating because they are easily below him.

Gouki is a fighter who is not below Gill, thus the case scenario is flawed and baseless because Gouki is not inferior to Gill. The fact of Gill not speaking about what occured has absolutely no relevance to anything, the thing is, none of the above characters you mentioned flat out killed Gill, while Gouki has. The situation and scenario is completely different.

Originally posted by No End N Site
3.

Please read up all forms of the Canon Official Story from the sources before you conclude that I'm not right, or that it's not valid. Considering the sources I'm pertaining too came out Post-SFIII, so whatever they have would changed would rectify anything in SFIII the game.

Originally posted by No End N Site
4.

I never stated my logic wasn't faulty, because it is (didn't I state this earlier). However you were sitting here claiming in here and in other threads that Gill was the "most powerful". Which again, he has proven absolutely nothing to credit for this. Gouki has at least killed Gill on one occasion, so if I had to choose one over the other, I would choose the fighter who killed the other, because they at least have one thing on their resume over the "said opponent".

Again, your idea of Gill not taking fights seriously is a baseless claim because this can be used both ways mind you. After landing the SGS and killing Gill, Gouki has never since then even uttered Gill's name or made absolutely no reference to him again. This is the worse and most pointless idea to prove Gill's value.

Originally posted by No End N Site
The point is Capcom didn't come out and say anything at all about the fight except Gill was KILLED by the SGS and casualy Ressurected. The man can revive from being SGSed. No tricks, no comas, just get up like it didn't happpen, like he didn't just croak some time ago. You're not giving Gill any credit at all. I don't see any evidence to give Akuma any edge. Like I said, I think Capcom intends for all the bosses to be equal. It's like saying Sagat can beat SFIII Ryu cuz we know in canon that he was stronger than SFI Ryu.

Your arguing for the sake of arguing now. I stated very clearly in my last post...

IF I had to choose and make a tier placement of the boss characters, I would put Gouki over Gill, because we know at least that he has killed Gill. In actuality I would place them all within the same tier, however this was a "What if I had to" situation. Thus far, with what we have to go on I'd go with the man who killed the other, because at this very moment it makes the more logical sense.

You need to stop acting like Gill "casually" resurrected to try and make it sound less credible for Gouki which is absurd considering why not do it when Gouki was still around, why do it "afterwards" when he's left the scene?

Your Ryu to Sagat situation is I'm sorry, a terrible comparison here. This is completely different in all forms of the matter, here because Gouki has never been shown to be "inferior" to Gill prior to their meeting in SF, where as Ryu was stated, and noted to be inferior to Sagat prior to their match up in SF1.

The whole straw man of Gill doesn't care takes nothing away from Gouki killing him (Read my above statements again as to why your argument for this is pointless), that's the truth here. We don't know what took place prior too, in order for it to occur, however we at least know the out come, which is the most important factor. Gill died by the hands of Gouki, and only lived because of Resurrection.

However, for the sake of this, let's put this scenario up.

Let's just assume that they are 100% equal to one another in power potential. They go completely 100% full power at one another, however even at full potential, Gill still can't even stop SGS anyhow so a situation of Gouki landing it upon Gill again is very likely if the two fought one another again.

"If" Gill revived in front of Gouki, whats to stop Gouki from landing SGS again, but this time, destroying Gill's body afterward with whatever he may want to do in order to ensure that Gill does not revive again, and that it will guarantee that Gouki is victorious.

How is that scenario highly unlikely? How is it so completely flawed in your eyes? You seemingly think that this is so illogical however we know for a fact that Gill can't stand up to the SGS shows to you that this is all that would be needed in order for Gouki to kill Gill for a second time.

So yes, "if" I had to pick between Gouki or Gill in a "who will win in a fight" situation, I'd vote for Gouki.

Originally posted by No End N Site
5.

That honor garbage is not truly honor mind you, that's Gouki wanting to fight someone at their full potential.

Gen's situation is different because Gen was weakened, and was dying, he couldn't fight at his full potential, thats why Gouki didn't choose to flat out destroy him. Gill is not within the same case scenario.

The comparison to Gen to Gill is not within the same vicinity is because Gill is not hampered by a disease that's killing him, or refraining him from using full power. If Gouki saw that Gill can auto-revive after dying, then Gouki will kill him and destroy his body if meant total victory. That's different from fighting a ailing man who can't fight at his full strength.

The two concepts don't even apply to one another and thus, proven invalid.

Originally posted by No End N Site
6. I'm going to have to do that cuz that translation sounds like it's wrong, cuz the game says other wise and SF is now owned by Capcom USA. So I'm siding with the official english translation for now until stated otherwise. I was also told that as SF's popularity continues to rejuvinate, the JP books will be re-released in english as time passes.

AASF, and AAC>>>>>>Any of the things you claim, and if you disagree then you simply are refuting what is officially canon and stated over what you are claiming. Endings do not hold the "entire" truth to it, even in the AASF it talks about making extra body back ups for Gill in case his old one is destroyed.

Again, all of your notions of Well, Gill doesn't care, because he never talked about it anymore, is straw man talk. For we could very well say the same thing about Gouki. For Gouki also makes absolutely no remark or reference pertaining to Gill Post the SGS incident. Also, why didn't Oro sense Gill's aura as well but only Gouki's?

Yes, I can do the straw man notions too.

All I can say is, at least take the time and effort look at all of the Official Canon Books pertaining to SF before you ride off that I'm not speaking the truth.

Originally posted by No End N Site
7. Is "A2", Alpha 2? If so, dude is not that hard to me. The man has broken tactics but the CPU hardly uses them. I mean, all Gill has to do is taunt and any of his supers will kill you instantly and do 60% of your health when you block.

Gill is a joke, and regardless of how good he is, he has absolutely no real rape potential is because of Parry, nearly all of his moves can be negated and punished. As a CPU who does routine things (Example of such cases where you duck and he'll do his jumping knee, or overhead, which is an easy Parry>>>Own).

The Parry System breaks apart anything that the Cpu Gill can hope to do that can effectively kill you out right.

A2 Shin Gouki has none of those factors to deal with so all of his tactics are potent. His projectile has the fastest recovery out of any character, and also travels the fastest out of any other character (Go look up youtube of A2 Shin Gouki) he has the most broken aerial projectile game in existence, and his combos deplete a load of your life.

He is even more broken then ST. Gouki due to his aerial fireball which is unavoidable (Also other factors because ST. Gouki's projectile is only 1-frame faster then ST. Ryu's which doesn't give him a significantly superior fireball game, and his aerial fireballs travel together). It's also norm for Shin-Gouki (cpu version) in A2 to use sweep, hurricane kick, into 3-hit Shoryuken (with that alone depletes 45%+ of your life on a whim), or instead of 3-hit Shoryu, he utilizes the Super Shoryu if he has meter, or if you miss with a sweep, he'll auto punish with his Super Gou-Hadouken if he has meter.

Take the other fact that his Hadouken takes off around 20% of your life, so two of them ='s 40%! Worse yet, his Hadouken when it hits automatically knocks you to the ground, allowing him a powerful wake up game. Add the other fact that A2 Shin-Gouki's walk speed is twice as fast as anyone in the game (that's something Gill does not have), and the recovery on his regulars are vastly superior to Ryu or Ken.

Gill's supers have no where near the same priority, besides his "Super Arts", plus the fact that Gill's pokes, and supers (Not talking about his SW Super Art) are not even close to being as effective and more importantly can be parried and punished makes him a much easier boss to deal with.

1. My point is, the outcome is meaningless cuz we don't know how this came about. Dan beat Sagat in Alpha 3. If that's all we had to go on, would you pick Dan over Sagat in a VS match? Or would it help knowing that Sagat let Dan win? In the world of SF, if specifics aint given, who the hell knows who is really stronger in a fight?

2. This makes my statement even more true. He has no problem letting people beat him. Why would the man have a problem with a worthy foe taking him out? If anything, Gill would try and get the guy to join him in Utopia. Keep in mind that my previous post was in response to you saying that it's a possibilty that Gill was embarrased to lose to Akuma. I'm simply stating he has no problem with losing.

3. I'll admit that with the current flood of SF books, I have not read any unofficial material in a while. I would just urge you to play through Oro's story, tho. The information you provide makes Oro seem very interested in Akuma, but in the actual game, Oro sees Akuma as a noob. How can you not undertand why I find this conflicting information to be a problem?

4. If you had maybe read a few more of my recent posts, you woulda seen that after a respectful dispute with DSZ, that I dialed back my claims aout Gill being the strongest SF boss ever and that I think all the bosses are equal.

Again, my point is missed. 'All' claims at this point are baseless, I was simply stating that when taking Gill's personality into account, he may not take Akuma seriously. He does not seem to take 'fighters' seriously. Just like Akuma, he always fights with a handicap. You can't take the outcome of the fight seriously cuz both combatants fight with handicaps. Gill does not use powers and Akuma does not fight at 100%. Just like Oro doesn't use 2 arms. Hell, Akuma didn't even try the SGS on him. Also, my point in mentioning that Gill said nothing about the battle afterwards was just an example of Gill not really caring about that fight. Just as I assume Akuma did not care.

You need to stop acting like Gill "casually" resurrected to try and make it sound less credible for Gouki which is absurd considering why not do it when Gouki was still around, why do it "afterwards" when he's left the scene?

Lol, dude! He's dead. I don't think you are aware of what's going on around you when you're dead. I also don't think Gill can control when he resurrects, like "Oh man, I don't think he's around anymore. I should come back to life now." I seriously doubt it works that way. I think it's possible to hold a decent debate without making the opposing party look like wuss or a coward. That shouldn't be hard to do.

Your Ryu to Sagat situation is I'm sorry, a terrible comparison here. This is completely different in all forms of the matter, here because Gouki has never been shown to be "inferior" to Gill prior to their meeting in SF, where as Ryu was stated, and noted to be inferior to Sagat prior to their match up in SF1.

This comparrison is perfect, your just not seeing it cuz you don't want to, which isn't cool at all. We know Sagat is stronger than Ryu at the start of SF, but alot has happened since then. You can't really say who would win now and to say that Sagat would win based off the fact that he was stronger in SFI, while is an educated guess, can still quite possibly be very wrong which is why Sagat being stronger than Ryu in SFI isn't even worth mentioning anymore. Just like how Akuma killing Gill in a vauge fight is not worth mentioning as to why Akuma would be stronger. Alot coulda happened in that fight and nothing at all coulda happened. Hell, the entire event could be retconned.

However, for the sake of this, let's put this scenario up.

Let's just assume that they are 100% equal to one another in power potential. They go completely 100% full power at one another, however even at full potential, Gill still can't even stop SGS anyhow so a situation of Gouki landing it upon Gill again is very likely if the two fought one another again.

"If" Gill revived in front of Gouki, whats to stop Gouki from landing SGS again, but this time, destroying Gill's body afterward with whatever he may want to do in order to ensure that Gill does not revive again, and that it will guarantee that Gouki is victorious.

How is that scenario highly unlikely? How is it so completely flawed in your eyes? You seemingly think that this is so illogical however we know for a fact that Gill can't stand up to the SGS shows to you that this is all that would be needed in order for Gouki to kill Gill for a second time.

So yes, "if" I had to pick between Gouki or Gill in a "who will win in a fight" situation, I'd vote for Gouki.

This scenario is not unlikely but...

Scenario A) There was no fight, Akuma slid up on an unsuspecting Gill and killed him instantly.

Scenario B) Gill simply thru the fight and allowed himself to be killed in order to test Akuma.

Scenario C) Gill simply didn't take the fight seriously and was killed for it.

Scenario D) Gill was midway thru the finals and was pretty damn worn out when Akuma busted in and killed weakened Gill.

None of these scenarios are highly unlikely and could've happened. And how in the hell do you know Gill has nothing to halt an SGS at full power? How do you know that Gill's divine-like powers in full swing don't negate death altogether? Do you know? So yes, if I had to pick, I'd have to say draw or IDK.


5. Not invalid. Rather you admit it or not, Akuma has a level of honor that I don't think would allow him to destroy a body after he's already killed it. Maybe if he 'knew' Gill could ressurect, but offa his 1st time fighting the guy? I don't think so.


6. The AASF is in Japanese, I can't read Japanese. I don't know the person who translated it and the person who did doesn't really like to talk about it much. So when there is a dispute between something in the actual game and there's no harm in that "something" actually happening and a translation of a book I can't read by a fellow SF fan, then I'm taking the side of the game until this dispute is reconciled...in english. I'm not saying you're wrong or that your facts are wrong, just tellin' you whose side I'm on. That's all I have to say about that.

7. Shin Akuma in A2 does not fight that hard. All those cheap tricks, the CPU seldom uses or uses to a point where it becomes predictable. Not to mention he hardly blocks cuz he spends so much damn time tryin to attack you that he even tries to stand over you while you're on the ground and will only try to SRK you if you try something on wake up. I honestly, on the hardest difficulty, HP the shit outta him every time he tries SRK me. Not to mention the sometimes he even falls for the stupid ass repeated trip at the right distance.

Gill on the other hand, for him to be CPU controlled, has a decent mix up that's hard to parry and can dizzy you with only 2 head butts that he links from his juggles all the damn time. He has stamina like Hugo, attack like Hugo, speed like Chun Li and Yun and can deal more stun than anyone else in the game. He literaly has no flaws in the realm of SFIII except his specials aint big combos.

My point is that the CPU plays smarter with Gill than they do with A2 Akuma.

Originally posted by No End N Site
1. My point is, the outcome is meaningless cuz we don't know how this came about. Dan beat Sagat in Alpha 3. If that's all we had to go on, would you pick Dan over Sagat in a VS match? Or would it help knowing that Sagat let Dan win? In the world of SF, if specifics aint given, who the hell knows who is really stronger in a fight?

Again, your drastic notions are ridiculous, it's well documented that Sagat clearly didn't give a damn about Dan or the fight. Obviously if Sagat even chose to utilize 5% of his abilities he would have blown Dan out of the water.

How in the world are you that far fetched to even remotely compare Dan beating Sagat to Gouki killing Gill? What I was merely doing was trying to make the most educated guess, and with what we have, I leaned over to Gouki, it seems to me that you have a problem with this however.

Originally posted by No End N Site
2.

No, your wrong again, you stated that Gill doesn't care, which was made to "boaster" over the fact or devalue Gouki's ability to kill Gill. I simply stated over that it's a straw man indication to try and water down Gouki having the ability to do this up against Gill. I also stated that if you utilized this notion against Gill, then obviously it could be stated about Gouki as well as he never ever mentions about Gill again.

It can go both ways mind you, however it still doesn't take away Gill died.


Originally posted by No End N Site
3. I'll admit that with the current flood of SF books, I have not read any unofficial material in a while. I would just urge you to play through Oro's story, tho. The information you provide makes Oro seem very interested in Akuma, but in the actual game, Oro sees Akuma as a noob. How can you not undertand why I find this conflicting information to be a problem?

Post the exact reference to where Oro see's Gouki as a noob, seriously. Also, the fact that you don't take in the AASF and AAC makes me question you as well, considering that it's been known that Oro and Gouki don't even truly meet nor fight until 3rd Strike.

Originally posted by No End N Site
Pertaining to baseless claims

Claims are all that we have at this moment, and at this point, it's not unplausible for a situation of Gouki killing Gill again. Regardless of whether Gill care's or not. That's the thing here, it doesn't matter if Gill cares, considering Dictator has never ever mentioned of Gouki again after he was killed by him as well.

The personalities have absolutely nothing to do with the situation that I'm pointing about. That is that "if" the two were to meet on the battle field that I would lean for Gouki due to the fact that he's shown having the capability to kill Gill.

Originally posted by No End N Site
Lol, dude! He's dead. I don't think you are aware of what's going on around you when you're dead. I also don't think Gill can control when he resurrects, like "Oh man, I don't think he's around anymore. I should come back to life now." I seriously doubt it works that way. I think it's possible to hold a decent debate without making the opposing party look like wuss or a coward. That shouldn't be hard to do.

You need to read my statements more carefully, I posted what I said in accordance to your statement of making or devaluing Gouki's feat of killing Gill. You make it sound like Gill just "casually" died and revived himself. Which is why I stated "in your level" of play to say that why didn't Gill revive afterwards while Gouki was there. Considering it's known that Gouki left the scene not knowing that Gill resurrected himself.

There is no reference to how "fast" he can revive, however I wouldn't be surprised if the revival was similar in fashion to the actual game's interpretation.

Yes, a useless point to debate about, however you brought that up, not me.

Originally posted by No End N Site
Comparisons to Sagat/Ryu to Gouki/Gill

The comparison is not the same, it's not even comparable here.

Firstly, Capcom officially even makes the statement that during Street Fighter 1, Ryu was inferior to Sagat. They even push for the fact that afterwards, Sagat falls and becomes even less of a fighter Post-SF1, while Ryu continues to grow even more powerful.

Only when Sagat reconciles with himself and his "defeat" that he again starts to obtain what he originally was. The fact is, these two are pushed hand and hand together to be rivals of equal status in their terms of power and fighting capability, it's not like in newer versions of SF that they are showing Sagat "having" the slight upper hand here.

Again, I'm reading exactly what you are trying to say, but your comparing two fighters whom within even SF:IV are noted to be absolute equals, but the same cannot be stated for Gouki or Gill without a huge void in the middle here. As I stated, your comparison is completely flawed.

Gouki and Gill's situation is different because firstly, Gouki has proven that from 2nd Impact (when he killed Gill) to 3rd Strike, he improved greatly and vastly (His Ultimate Technique for one). We know that up to this point, Gill has absolutely no answer up against Gouki's SGS.

The problem that I simply can't believe with you is the idea that you can't believe that if the two fought, that Gouki would be very capable of winning if he landed an SGS again. Again, if that's implausible, then by all means, prove to me how it couldn't happen again.

Originally posted by No End N Site
Scenario's and Gill "potentially" having the capability to defend against SGS

Out of all of your scenarios, only A is the only one that holds some sort of credibility, the other two are absolutely ridiculous and preposterous. Seriously, Gill throwing away the fight? Lol, wow.

Gill has not proven to have an ability to stop SGS, again, look to those who showed the capability to do so, they were noted with them. Gill had none, thus far, he was killed by an SGS. Going full power means nothing if you don't understand how to defend against an SGS, that's fact.

Dictator in Alpha 3 as ridiculous as he was if he had been SGS he would have vaporized. Being at full potential means nothing in this matter, because we have no evidence of Gill proving that he can "defend" against the SGS making your assumptions on this completely baseless.

Originally posted by No End N Site
5.

This is what I tried to point out to you 2 times over from the last two post, that if Gouki knew that Gill could resurrect, and it was a fight, that Gouki would do any means possible to achieve victory here, because Gill being capable of resurrecting changes the whole scenario completely, thus destroying a body so the man can no longer fight back means victory. Yes, Gouki would do it.

Originally posted by No End N Site
6.

Considering the person who's doing the AASF and AAC translation is the exact same person who's also putting the Canon Plot Guide says alot to you and to me, so no he's not "hiding it". Your just simply not choosing to read it, and realize that many parts of the official statements that I concluded were directly taken from and translated there.

You are only lending to "one" source, while I'm broading my horizons to multiple newer sources which either keeps things the same, or else changes, or elses braodens the situation for the characters storyline.

If anything, that's the better way to come up with a more plausible conclusion then to simply rely upon the game, and to believe that this is the "absolute" truth (which in reality, it is not).

Originally posted by No End N Site
7.

I am almost confident that my abilities in SF are better then yours and even I would rather face Gill over Shin-Gouki in A2.

Shin Gouki is faster then any character in the game of A2 (Gill is not faster then any of the characters in SFIII, his speed is normal), Gill also attacks much slower, making him far more predictable in how he attacks.

Gill has no ridiculous overpowered supers that make it near impossible for you to avoid. Shin-Gouki's Dual Fireballs alone are better then All of Gill's regular Supers combined. Seraphic Angel is the "only" Super Art that you should need to watch out for.

Gill's normals like his overhead, to his sweep are and can be easily baited and parried because when you duck, the Gill cpu has a huge tendency to try and go for overheads and his jumping knee strikes. It's not even close here, your telling me that a guy who can deplete more then 45%+ of your life with one mistake and has way more overpowered specials, a super that depletes 75% of your life (SGS), moves faster, has more priority, does greater damage and doesn't have to deal with a stupid parry system is "easier" to beat then Gill?

Heck, Cpu Shin-Gouki's tactics of Aerial Fireball (forces you into block and block-stun), Asura Warps behind, c.mk, hurricane kick, into Shoryuken is better then anything cpu SFIII Gill can even muster at you.

The plot of Gouki vs Gill can be debated, however there is no debate here, cpu Shin Gouki in A2 blows Gill out of the water, heck, Gill's not even as ridiculous as WW Dictator, or ST. Gouki much less A2 Shin-Gouki.

ST Gouki can Shoryuken you for 60% of your life, so broken!

"Again, your drastic notions are ridiculous, it's well documented that Sagat clearly didn't give a damn about Dan or the fight. Obviously if Sagat even chose to utilize 5% of his abilities he would have blown Dan out of the water.

How in the world are you that far fetched to even remotely compare Dan beating Sagat to Gouki killing Gill? What I was merely doing was trying to make the most educated guess, and with what we have, I leaned over to Gouki, it seems to me that you have a problem with this however."

Dammit man, you just don't phuckin' get it. It's like talking to a phuckin brick wall. You're findin' ways to argue with me rather than just phuckin' readin' like a normal human being. I'm not going on with this if your reaction is, "Man, it's Dan VS Sagat so it's not the same as Gill VS Akuma." You're either being a total ass and a jerk, ignoring my underlying points or this is too deep for you.


"No, your wrong again, you stated that Gill doesn't care, which was made to "boaster" over the fact or devalue Gouki's ability to kill Gill. I simply stated over that it's a straw man indication to try and water down Gouki having the ability to do this up against Gill. I also stated that if you utilized this notion against Gill, then obviously it could be stated about Gouki as well as he never ever mentions about Gill again.

It can go both ways mind you, however it still doesn't take away Gill died."

No, you're refusing to comprehend, again. I never said Gill didn't care in order to devalue Akuma. To show that you're just reading my posts and turning into an ass about the situation, I've said numerous times that Akuma really doesn't care either, mind you. Another example to prove you are just being an ass about this. I've said the word "probably" at least dozen times now to show that I am not certain'. How could I possibly devalue what Akuma has done when in every game he does something retardedly powerful. The problem is, Gill has 1 ending that displays miraculous feats and tid bits of useful information. Gill's true level of full power is unknown, just like Akuma's. I am only telling you that I disagree with your reasoning as to why Akuma should win if "You 'had' to pick" one over the other. If anything, I'm simply stressing what we do know about Gill so that people do remember that the specifics of the fight are unknown. Listening to you, people would assume Akuma is stronger becuase he killed Gill, not knowing that the fight has so little information in it, it's barely canon and will prolly get retconned.




"Post the exact reference to where Oro see's Gouki as a noob, seriously. Also, the fact that you don't take in the AASF and AAC makes me question you as well, considering that it's been known that Oro and Gouki don't even truly meet nor fight until 3rd Strike."

ORO: Wow! You possess an incredible level of chi! That's what you call...Evil Intent? Impressive FOR A YOUNG MAN LIKE YOU.

AKUMA: I've heard about you, Senin. Watch your words or they will reveal your destruction.

ORO: You claim to be the master of fists...THIS DISTURBS ME...The road to true mastery is much harder. Let us travel it now...

This is the exact quote from the game. I'm sure if you wanna check and see for yourself, it's on youtube somewhere. Clearly Oro sees Akuma as wet behind the ears and not his equal or even worth teaching, seeing as how he chose Ryu over him.

"Claims are all that we have at this moment, and at this point, it's not unplausible for a situation of Gouki killing Gill again. Regardless of whether Gill care's or not. That's the thing here, it doesn't matter if Gill cares, considering Dictator has never ever mentioned of Gouki again after he was killed by him as well."

OMFG, my point is that if Gill does not care, he will not use his powers on Akuma, thus he would not fight Akuma at full power. Why is this so hard to understand? Why are you being such a dick about this? And don't say that "Gouki may not have cared either" cuz I already phuckin' know that. My point is, the fight may not have gone down at a serious level. And although Bison didn't mention Akuma killing him, he has a phuckin' alternate costume showing that he got his ass beat in SFII. SFIV aknowledges that Bison was KILLED after SFII. They didn't just say Bison was killed, they made it an IMPORTANT story element. Capcom in SFIII, says Gill got SGSed and the plot continues like it never happened. This is my point. It's like, Gill was killed by Akuma...Who the phuck cares, he's still the boss of 3rd Strike. Capcom did not try to work this event into the story in the slightest. The event was VERY unimportant, which leads me to believe the fights wasn't a big deal to either combatant.



"You need to read my statements more carefully, I posted what I said in accordance to your statement of making or devaluing Gouki's feat of killing Gill. You make it sound like Gill just "casually" died and revived himself. Which is why I stated "in your level" of play to say that why didn't Gill revive afterwards while Gouki was there. Considering it's known that Gouki left the scene not knowing that Gill resurrected himself."

I am taking it that the fight went down like it did when he fought Bison in CFE. It's not canon but I think it shows how Gill would react in a simillar situation. He loses the fight and revives himself later, like, "oh the phuck well, let's go." As if he did not take the fight very seriously, thus, he prolly didn't give it his all.





"The comparison is not the same, it's not even comparable here.

Firstly, Capcom officially even makes the statement that during Street Fighter 1, Ryu was inferior to Sagat. They even push for the fact that afterwards, Sagat falls and becomes even less of a fighter Post-SF1, while Ryu continues to grow even more powerful.

Only when Sagat reconciles with himself and his "defeat" that he again starts to obtain what he originally was. The fact is, these two are pushed hand and hand together to be rivals of equal status in their terms of power and fighting capability, it's not like in newer versions of SF that they are showing Sagat "having" the slight upper hand here.

Again, I'm reading exactly what you are trying to say, but your comparing two fighters whom within even SF:IV are noted to be absolute equals, but the same cannot be stated for Gouki or Gill without a huge void in the middle here. As I stated, your comparison is completely flawed.

Gouki and Gill's situation is different because firstly, Gouki has proven that from 2nd Impact (when he killed Gill) to 3rd Strike, he improved greatly and vastly (His Ultimate Technique for one). We know that up to this point, Gill has absolutely no answer up against Gouki's SGS.

The problem that I simply can't believe with you is the idea that you can't believe that if the two fought, that Gouki would be very capable of winning if he landed an SGS again. Again, if that's implausible, then by all means, prove to me how it couldn't happen again."

This pointless now cuz you aint takin' shit I say to you in at all. My point is so damn simple, a toddler with the intent of actually listening can understand. Like Gill VS Akuma, you can't pick a winner between Sagat and Ryu cuz there isn't enough information to do so. So boo to all that other shit your telling me cuz what I just said is fact. Hitting Gill with and SGS under unknown circumstances does not mean he can hit Gill any time he wants, however he wants, no matter what Gill is revealed to be capable of in the future of the SF series. That's bull shit.

"Out of all of your scenarios, only A is the only one that holds some sort of credibility, the other two are absolutely ridiculous and preposterous. Seriously, Gill throwing away the fight? Lol, wow."

That's just your pompus ass arrogant opinion. All scenarios are equally as likely as the one you presented to me. All of them could have happened and there is nothing known that could have stopped them from happening.

"Gill has not proven to have an ability to stop SGS, again, look to those who showed the capability to do so, they were noted with them. Gill had none, thus far, he was killed by an SGS. Going full power means nothing if you don't understand how to defend against an SGS, that's fact."

That's not fact cuz Gill has not proven TO BE ABLE TO DO ANY DAMN THING save for what's shown in that 1 ending and what little his profile states. The more you keep saying this stuff, the more shocked I become at how easily you ignore the huge elephant in the room. Gill and Akuma HAVE NEVER BEEN SHOWN AT FULL POWER. The problem is, your assuming things and I'm not assuming anything at all. You keep saying that even at full power, Gill will be killed by an SGS. I'm saying, I don't know cuz I have not seen what Gill is like at full power. You're phuckin' crazy

"Dictator in Alpha 3 as ridiculous as he was if he had been SGS he would have vaporized. Being at full potential means nothing in this matter, because we have no evidence of Gill proving that he can "defend" against the SGS making your assumptions on this completely baseless."

And you're making this assumption about Gill based what WOULD happen to Bison if he was hit with it, that's terrible. And you have the the bones to speak ill of me. WE KNOW Bison wouldn't be able to take it cuz we know he is a bad man whose sins would consume his soul. All the power in the world wouldn't save Bison's soul. That's not even based on his power level. Gill is not the same Bison. Bison derives his power from evil and negativity. We don't know where the phuck Gill gets his holy-like powers from. They way you sound, if you don't know how to fend off an SGS, you're ass out. Hell, with your logic, Akuma could kill Pyron with an SGS or Ingrid, or Oro. Hell, he could kill Onslaught with an SGS, all cuz they wouldn't know how to defend against it.

"This is what I tried to point out to you 2 times over from the last two post, that if Gouki knew that Gill could resurrect, and it was a fight, that Gouki would do any means possible to achieve victory here, because Gill being capable of resurrecting changes the whole scenario completely, thus destroying a body so the man can no longer fight back means victory. Yes, Gouki would do it."

...Akuma does not know Gill can Resurrection, what you're saying would never happen. Even if they met a 2nd time, I seriously doubt Akuma would think Gill can just raise himself from the dead. That's what I've been saying.



"Considering the person who's doing the AASF and AAC translation is the exact same person who's also putting the Canon Plot Guide says alot to you and to me, so no he's not "hiding it". Your just simply not choosing to read it, and realize that many parts of the official statements that I concluded were directly taken from and translated there."

Dude never ansewers any of my PMs and I gotta catch the guy in passing in order to ask him anything. I'm not saying he's hiding anything, just that he's a very hard man to catch. That's all I'm saying.

"You are only lending to "one" source, while I'm broading my horizons to multiple newer sources which either keeps things the same, or else changes, or elses braodens the situation for the characters storyline.

If anything, that's the better way to come up with a more plausible conclusion then to simply rely upon the game, and to believe that this is the "absolute" truth (which in reality, it is not)."

No, that's not at all what's going on. Since much more official material is being released thanx to Capcom USA, I don't have to hang on every single word of every well put together unofficial plot guide anymore. Most of what are in the plot guides are backed up in the SFEC and SF20. But why should I keep having to use my PC to read the unofficial plot guide when I can just buy the official damn book that says the same thing but with pictures? And why I give the actual games translated by CapUSA more credit is cuz they are official. SF's not owned by CapJP anymore, those books that are translated were produced by Capcom JP.



"I am almost confident that my abilities in SF are better then yours and even I would rather face Gill over Shin-Gouki in A2."

Well, you are much older than me and have had more time with the series than I have. You even boasted about being tourney level at one point in your life. I have never been that good in my whole life, but YOU, being ONE man who happens to be more skilled than me does not make your opinion fact, it only looks like you're stroking you're ego.

"Shin Gouki is faster then any character in the game of A2 (Gill is not faster then any of the characters in SFIII, his speed is normal), Gill also attacks much slower, making him far more predictable in how he attacks.

Gill has no ridiculous overpowered supers that make it near impossible for you to avoid. Shin-Gouki's Dual Fireballs alone are better then All of Gill's regular Supers combined. Seraphic Angel is the "only" Super Art that you should need to watch out for.

Gill's normals like his overhead, to his sweep are and can be easily baited and parried because when you duck, the Gill cpu has a huge tendency to try and go for overheads and his jumping knee strikes. It's not even close here, your telling me that a guy who can deplete more then 45%+ of your life with one mistake and has way more overpowered specials, a super that depletes 75% of your life (SGS), moves faster, has more priority, does greater damage and doesn't have to deal with a stupid parry system is "easier" to beat then Gill?

Heck, Cpu Shin-Gouki's tactics of Aerial Fireball (forces you into block and block-stun), Asura Warps behind, c.mk, hurricane kick, into Shoryuken is better then anything cpu SFIII Gill can even muster at you.

The plot of Gouki vs Gill can be debated, however there is no debate here, cpu Shin Gouki in A2 blows Gill out of the water, heck, Gill's not even as ridiculous as WW Dictator, or ST. Gouki much less A2 Shin-Gouki. "

Dude, I can tell you haven't played Gill on hardest. He is not easy to parry and he has links and juggles that move at retarded speeds and make him seem like he has Ginei-Jin on all the time. He can spam at least 3 to 4 overlypowered LPs in a single second. Thatshit is not easy, not to mention that Gill will parry the shit outta you as well. Try throwing a SA projectile through one of his Pyro or Cryos, he will parry your shit outta existence. He has CHAIN COMBOS that start faster than ANY character in the game and do 40% of your life. He also mixes his chians up between H L and Ms making it hard to block or parry his whole combo and he does Chip damage with normals. He over does his dashing low LK>forward>HK which for some reason is unparryable and unblockable with certain characters. His reach with normals rivals Necro and always do full damage and stun no matter how he hits you. And he always uses these things. You can google "Hardest SF boss" and you will see nothing but the SFII Akumas, Bisons and Gills.

Hell, you could do 100%s on S.Akuma cuz of that retarded version of V-Ism. I almost forgot about that.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Which is why I said "Almost". Although, Igrid is a relative unknown herself.

In fact, I think by lore only, Ingrid may be the nly one who is stronger than Gouki, but in every other sense, he edges her out...

figured i'd go into any thread that involves akuma i'd see you there saying how almighty he is.. wow by these here comments you mean he's the strongest capcom being. wow amazing assumption! i'm in utter shock you believe this!!!!!

biased anyone?

Originally posted by vavavoom
figured i'd go into any thread that involves akuma i'd see you there saying how almighty he is.. wow by these here comments you mean he's the strongest capcom being. wow amazing assumption! i'm in utter shock you believe this!!!!!

biased anyone?

Are you starting to troll now?

Did you even read what I said? I didn't state Akuma was actually stronger than Ingrid exept by feats, which I already said long ago where not the be-all-end-all of debates. Seriously, stop doing this, you need to loosen up.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Are you starting to troll now?

Did you even read what I said? I didn't state Akuma was actually stronger than Ingrid exept by feats, which I already said long ago where not the be-all-end-all of debates. Seriously, stop doing this, you need to loosen up.

i'm relaxed dude, you're the one with the stick up your ass about how akuma created the universe in two days. and funny how you get on the defensive and say i'm trolling. only proving a point man and as it is obvious, point proven

Originally posted by vavavoom
i'm relaxed dude, you're the one with the stick up your ass about how akuma created the universe in two days. and funny how you get on the defensive and say i'm trolling. only proving a point man and as it is obvious, point proven

No dude, you came in here, and immediately singled me out and then went on to call me biased, and for what? for stating Ingrid is a relative unknown, which she is. I didn't even say the others where wrong, all I was reffering to was I wish there was more information.

You sir, are earning your label as a troll now, THAT is obvious.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
No dude, you came in here, and immediately singled me out and then went on to call me biased, and for what? for stating Ingrid is a relative unknown, which she is. I didn't even say the others where wrong, all I was reffering to was I wish there was more information.

You sir, are earning your label as a troll now, THAT is obvious.


i label you out because i stated before you are biased towards akuma and my point is proven here, as powerful as she is stated to be but because she hasn't done anything akuma automatically trump her? hmmm great logic there dude.
you honna put me on your ignore list too because i pointed out your one sided debates?

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
No dude, you came in here, and immediately singled me out and then went on to call me biased, and for what? for stating Ingrid is a relative unknown, which she is. I didn't even say the others where wrong, all I was reffering to was I wish there was more information.

You sir, are earning your label as a troll now, THAT is obvious.

dude, shin akuma is definitely in top 5 strongest bosses in a fighting game hands down. but akuma himself is nowhere near as strong (although they're the same person obviously) do you putthis int recocnition or do you just say akuma in general?

Originally posted by vavavoom
dude, shin akuma is definitely in top 5 strongest bosses in a fighting game hands down. but akuma himself is nowhere near as strong (although they're the same person obviously) do you putthis int recocnition or do you just say akuma in general?

No not particularly... The version you see losing to ryu was holding back considerably more than normal though... But the Shin akuma you see in the vs series like Capcom vs SNK2 or SVC Chaos are Orochi empowered, so those are also different...

Usually however, unless reffering to specific feats, I usually just use Akuma as a general statement.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
No not particularly... The version you see losing to ryu was holding back considerably more than normal though... But the Shin akuma you see in the vs series like Capcom vs SNK2 or SVC Chaos are Orochi empowered, so those are also different...

Usually however, unless reffering to specific feats, I usually just use Akuma as a general statement.
but you do consider all his strenghts as shin, you generalize? how do you rate him so powerful? i should have asked this before

Well, it depends really. In the movies I posted in the Akuma vs Goenitz thread, he wasn't in Shin form.

The only real difference bitween his regular form and Shin is that Shin is just not holding anything back during a battle (Hence why he gets access to techniques like the instantaneously striking Misogi, and the Tenma Shurettou counterattacks that derive from Misogi). However, for debates like this, where everyone is supposed to be bloodlusted, at full power, and have all their moves at the ready, yeah, Shin Akuma and akuma are the same dude, unless stated otherwise in the OP.

And I suppose rating him as powerful as I do is based on those movies... and his comparative battles against dude who are stated as being just as powerful. Not many outisde of games like Darkstalkers or Guilty Gear could match that on a street level fighting game...

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Well, it depends really. In the movies I posted in the Akuma vs Goenitz thread, he wasn't in Shin form.

The only real difference bitween his regular form and Shin is that Shin is just not holding anything back during a battle (Hence why he gets access to techniques like the instantaneously striking Misogi, and the Tenma Shurettou counterattacks that derive from Misogi). However, for debates like this, where everyone is supposed to be bloodlusted, at full power, and have all their moves at the ready, yeah, Shin Akuma and akuma are the same dude, unless stated otherwise in the OP.


..... well in that case

Sorry Vava, I edited that last sentence in while you replied :P