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This is human Frank, not Frankensatle.

Frank and Cap each get an army knife, no other weapons. But -
CIS is ON for Cap.
CIS is OFF for Frank, he's going for the kill.


They fight in a junkyard. Who wins and how do you see the fight going?

Frankencastle.

Cap wins.

Originally posted by Deadline
Frankencastle.

Originally posted by SamZED
This is human Frank, not Frankencastle. Frankencastle would be spite.

Oh duh, cap wins.

Even in the "CIS on for Cap" but "off for Frank" scenario??

Hmm im not so sure then. I like both characters so its a tough one.

Originally posted by Deadline
Hmm im not so sure then. I like both characters so its a tough one.

mm it's not though is it? Cap takes punisher everytime, there is not single physical area including damage soak (which says alot considering it's Punishers biggest strength), where Pun has an edge.

He's slower.
Less agile.
He's less skilled.
Has less experience.
Is weaker by half.
Plus Cap isnt likely to tire facing someone he's so physically superior to. And if Cap knows Franks CIS is off aned knows it's a fight for his life, it's even more of a steamroll.

imo ofcourse

Cap without a doubt. He outclasses Frank in every respect. Steve will take some lumps though.

Probably Captain America.

Originally posted by Juk3n
mm it's not though is it? Cap takes punisher everytime, there is not single physical area including damage soak (which says alot considering it's Punishers biggest strength), where Pun has an edge.

He's slower.
Less agile.
He's less skilled.
Has less experience.
Is weaker by half.
Plus Cap isnt likely to tire facing someone he's so physically superior to. And if Cap knows Franks CIS is off aned knows it's a fight for his life, it's even more of a steamroll.

imo ofcourse

No of course not. As I keep mentiong 100 times Kraven The Hunter has superhuman stats and is a skilled martial artist. Punisher was stalemating him after fighting a gauntlet of supervillians. He fought Daken with a broken leg and other wounds, as you know Daken is superhuman and is also a skilled martial artist. Cap isn't as skilled as any of those guys but he has lower stats.

Yeah Cap wins but if he holds back against a Punisher whos out to kill he just might end up dying.

Stevey.

Originally posted by Deadline
No of course not. As I keep mentiong 100 times Kraven The Hunter has superhuman stats and is a skilled martial artist. Punisher was stalemating him after fighting a gauntlet of supervillians.
...........yea the same issue were Punsiher over powered and choked out a class 100 tiger shark.........


Originally posted by Deadline
He fought Daken with a broken leg and other wounds, as you know Daken is superhuman and is also a skilled martial artist. Cap isn't as skilled as any of those guys but he has lower stats.
Cap is more skilled then they are........

Daken killed Punisher........

cap beats frank blk and blue... frank gives it his best shot till he pisses cap off by biting off a cheek or ear..

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
...........yea the same issue were Punsiher over powered and choked out a class 100 tiger shark.........



Cap is more skilled then they are........

Daken killed Punisher........ Daken was fighting a mentally defeated and physically weak punisher, Daken would probably still win in a straight fight, but it would be a lot harder.

Cap wins, it would be a good fight, I'd love to see it on-panel.

Originally posted by Trackz
Daken was fighting a mentally defeated and physically weak punisher, Daken would probably still win in a straight fight, but it would be a lot harder.

Cap wins, it would be a good fight, I'd love to see it on-panel.
would probly win? It wouldent even be a fight, daken dident even uses his pheramones the first time and was toying with him.

The Captain of course

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
...........yea the same issue were Punsiher over powered and choked out a class 100 tiger shark.........

Hes beaten Kraven before, so thats the end of that.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan

Cap is more skilled then they are........

Daken killed Punisher........

facepalm.

Originally posted by Deadline
Hes beaten Kraven before, so thats the end of that.



facepalm.
really when was this? also why do you assume kraven is even remotely comparable to Capt? Capt would pummel Kraven.

hey why dont was uses a little ABC logic. Punisher stalemated Kraven, Kraven got beaten into the ground by beast and Capt pummeled beast.

Capt>>>>Beast>Punisher=Kraven

Yeah sure.

Originally posted by Deadline
Yeah sure.
yea sure what? I asked two direct question and yea sure doesent answer either of them.

Listen man I'm done. I'm not really feeling a debate right now.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
would probly win? It wouldent even be a fight, daken dident even uses his pheramones the first time and was toying with him. daken rarely uses his pheromones, or people have learned how to work around them. Daken is plagued by CIS, so yes it would be a fight.

Originally posted by Deadline
Listen man I'm done. I'm not really feeling a debate right now.
why even respond back then? seems rather poinless, either debate or don't.

Originally posted by Trackz
daken rarely uses his pheromones, or people have learned how to work around them. Daken is plagued by CIS, so yes it would be a fight.
actaully he uses them all the time, it only when hack writers uses him during a guest spot is when there ignored.

Hell they were even stated in his recent fight with Frank.


He does uses them and it would make for a very easy win against human castle.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
why even respond back then? seems rather poinless, either debate or don't.

Don't waste my time then.



Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
actaully he uses them all the time, it only when hack writers uses him during a guest spot is when there ignored.

Hell they were even stated in his recent fight with Frank.


He does uses them and it would make for a very easy win against human castle.

No he doesn't use them all the time and its not even a foregone conclusion it would work.

Originally posted by Deadline
Don't waste my time then.





No he doesn't use them all the time and its not even a foregone conclusion it would work.
your such a child sometimes.







actaully they would work, there zero reason to assume they won't, he even made a point of stating that phermones don't work on castle new body, implying they worked on his old one.



He uses them when he fighting at his peak which is what he be doing on forum battle. He also uses the phermones all of the time he very rarely doesent uses them.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
your such a child sometimes.

Sure.




Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan


actaully they would work, there zero reason to assume they won't, he even made a point of stating that phermones don't work on castle new body, implying they worked on his old one.

Um no that doesn't neccsarily mean that.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan


He uses them when he fighting at his peak which is what he be doing on forum battle. He also uses the phermones all of the time he very rarely doesent uses them.

Nope I can think of quite a few times when he hasn't.

Originally posted by Deadline
Sure.






Um no that doesn't neccsarily mean that.



Nope I can think of quite a few times when he hasn't.
to assume they wont work on castle is really rediculous. what castle all of a sudden became a mutant who sole power is immunity to daken pheramones?







he wouldent be at his peak so why would it be assume daken would not fight to the best of his ability? also thoses few times are out wade by the majority of times when he does uses them, they also are his quest apearences by hack witers who dident even realize his third claw was coated with magical blade.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
actaully he uses them all the time, it only when hack writers uses him during a guest spot is when there ignored.

Hell they were even stated in his recent fight with Frank.


He does uses them and it would make for a very easy win against human castle. then where did they go against Ronin, Wolverine, or Frank (first fight and second fight)? Those are just the ones that come right to mind.

Originally posted by Trackz
then where did they go against Ronin, Wolverine, or Frank (first fight and second fight)? Those are just the ones that come right to mind.
becuase the writer of ronin fight was a hack, also why would you even try using that as an example when in the same fight his third claws magical blade mas magically gone...........yes great evidences there champ.


He did uses it against wolverine it was even stated.


Frank he was toying with which was obvious.


He tried using it vs frankin castle but it dident work.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
becuase the writer of ronin fight was a hack, also why would you even try using that as an example when in the same fight his third claws magical blade mas magically gone...........yes great evidences there champ.


He did uses it against wolverine it was even stated.


Frank he was toying with which was obvious.


He tried using it vs frankin castle but it dident work.
his muramasa claw has nothing to do with his senses, and it is possible the fight took place before he got it

Originally posted by Trackz
his muramasa claw has nothing to do with his senses, and it is possible the fight took place before he got it
if the righter for got one thing pretty big thing about a character why would using him as evidences help you? guy clearly was not up to date on his knolwedge. No it not possible it took place before. Because Daken got his magical claws prior to jioining osborn team.

he already had the claws in various other stories why would the one story be a back story in the MU... especially when it takes place during a time in MU history where daken already had the claw and had chosen to join the dark avengers?

facepalm2

Originally posted by King Castle
he already had the claws in various other stories why would the one story be a back story in the MU... especially when it takes place during a time in MU history where daken already had the claw and had chosen to join the dark avengers?

facepalm2
becuase he got nothing and he reaching.

Originally posted by King Castle
he already had the claws in various other stories why would the one story be a back story in the MU... especially when it takes place during a time in MU history where daken already had the claw and had chosen to join the dark avengers?

facepalm2 happens all the time, like frank being human in shadowland

Originally posted by Trackz
happens all the time, like frank being human in shadowland

He's not human in Shadow Land, he was human in a Shadow Land promo. There has only been mention of him in Shadow Land, and it mentioned that he was Frakencastle.

Good to hear.

Optimistically Frank is going take a minimum of three hits for every one he lands. Now, while I personally believe that Frank is hands down, absolutely the most durable street level human (and I include Cap in that list), I don't think his edge is enough to make up being hit 3:1 by a stronger, faster and more skilled opponent.

Statistically Frank would lose this fight every time if it was run in a simulation. The thing is though, he knows that and being the crafty guy he is, he can play his own weaknesses to his advantage. Knowing he is going to tire and slow down long before Captain America, he can play it up, pretending to tire and slow down a bit faster then normal. Secretly keeping something in reserve for perfectly timed strike, while Cap thinks he is running on fumes, he could potentially take Cap by surprise and pull out a win.

Steve Rogers.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Optimistically Frank is going take a minimum of three hits for every one he lands. Now, while I personally believe that Frank is hands down, absolutely the most durable street level human (and I include Cap in that list), I don't think his edge is enough to make up being hit 3:1 by a stronger, faster and more skilled opponent.

Statistically Frank would lose this fight every time if it was run in a simulation. The thing is though, he knows that and being the crafty guy he is, he can play his own weaknesses to his advantage. Knowing he is going to tire and slow down long before Captain America, he can play it up, pretending to tire and slow down a bit faster then normal. Secretly keeping something in reserve for perfectly timed strike, while Cap thinks he is running on fumes, he could potentially take Cap by surprise and pull out a win.

Honestly I don't even consider Cap peak human anymore. Cap's durability is far from human IMO at least Frank's freakishly strong opponents tend to be on the strength level of a gorilla in most cases. I mean I don't see him tanking shots from Iron Man in his extremis suit.
Cap however has a tendency to run into some of the higher end hitters for villains that no normal human has any business in taking straight shots to the face and getting back up for seconds, peak human or not.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/th_PunisherAnnual1019.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/th_PunisherAnnual1020.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/th_PunisherAnnual1021.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/th_PunisherAnnual1022.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/th_PunisherAnnual1023.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/th_PunisherAnnual1024.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/th_PunisherAnnual1026.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/th_PunisherAnnual1027.jpg

Amazing showing of damage soak for Frank. Captain America still has better -a lot in my opinion- showings under his belt.

Yeah... I said in most cases as in all comic book heroes and villains there are exceptions. Like as I recently found out Batman taking out Lobo in a straight fist fight... Does it happen yes. Should it ever NO! However Cap's inconsistency for damage soak with what peak human's should be able to soak makes me put him in the superhuman level because the times when his soak is peak human is now far outnumbered by when his soak is that of someone like spiderman.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Amazing showing of damage soak for Frank. Captain America still has better -a lot in my opinion- showings under his belt.

Cap took 4-5 hits from Ironman, which was impressive to be sure, but he was ****ed all to hell after and had to have shit set in casts. Punisher took all that in stride (and a bit more before and after) in stride and kept going afterwards like nothing happened. Sentry knocked Frank flying like 200 yards through a wall and he was fine. Punisher is crazy, he's fought on two broke legs and kept going after a shot gun blew one of his ribs clean out of his body.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Cap took 4-5 hits from Ironman, which was impressive to be sure, but he was ****ed all to hell after and had to have shit set in casts. Punisher took all that in stride (and a bit more before and after) in stride and kept going afterwards like nothing happened. Sentry knocked Frank flying like 200 yards through a wall and he was fine. Punisher is crazy, he's fought on two broke legs and kept going after a shot gun blew one of his ribs clean out of his body.

In Civil War, Captain America withstood a shield bash from Spider-Man (He used his mechanical arms), and immediately went on to tank a double fisted flying assault to the back from Iron Man through a brick wall I believe. He then withstood 1 punch to the ribs and 3 to the face. Rogers was still standing although he was bruised and bleeding. Hercules then dumped an entire truck -that seemed to be carrying fuel- on top of Iron Man. Captain America was right besides Tony when the large explosion happened and this was what finally brought him down. Taking into account how incredibly damn strong Extremis Iron Man is -he was able to hurt and if I recall correctly, even draw blood from Sentry with a blow- that showing is a hell of a lot more impressive to me then what Frank just withstood in the above scans.

While we're on the topic of Iron Man, Rogers has withstood 3 flying blows to the face from a blood lusted Iron Man before. I've even seen him withstand punches to the face from someone like Namor.

F*cked to hell? As I recall he had a few bruises but outside of his leg being in a type of metallic cast, he was fine. Next issue he was up and running outside of his arm being in a sling. I'm basing this off of the main Civil War comic.

Sentry seemed to slightly tap Frank and sent him flying through a window. I don't know about it being 200 yards. I don't recall the building looking that far away once Punisher stopped bouncing. If you want to go by really high end feats, Captain America withstood a blast from Heroes Reborn verse Air Walker better than Thor or Iron Man I think.

I never doubted that Punisher could keep on fighting despite extreme injuries. I don't think Captain America has any instances where his been damaged that severely. At least none I can recall off of the top of my head. I guess you could argue Punisher has more high end will power showings than Cap. Durability showings however? I'm not sure I'd agree.

That was one punch to the hip, not ribs.

To me it didn't look like IM drew blood from Sentry.



Cap wins, btw.

Super Soldier wins both scenarios. He's not only faster, stronger, and basically tireless, he's also way more skilled. How can Frankie hope to win?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
He's not human in Shadow Land, he was human in a Shadow Land promo. There has only been mention of him in Shadow Land, and it mentioned that he was Frakencastle. ...no, he's been shown, and he's human in shadowland.

Cap 8/10 although Frank makes him work for it.

Originally posted by Uriel005
Honestly I don't even consider Cap peak human anymore.


Why not. Cap is the peak of human "potential". And he's been called the next step in human evolution.

I don't think there's anything wrong with that as long as one remembers his true definition of "peak human" which is vastly different then Batman.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Cap 8/10 although Frank makes him work for it. Ok, now I'm confused. Is Frank normal or Frankencastle in Shadowland?

I could swear there was a page with human Frank in shadowland. One little panel but he was clearly human, not undead.
Originally posted by Juk3n
mm it's not though is it? Cap takes punisher everytime, there is not single physical area including damage soak (which says alot considering it's Punishers biggest strength), where Pun has an edge.

He's slower.
Less agile.
He's less skilled.
Has less experience.
Is weaker by half.
Plus Cap isnt likely to tire facing someone he's so physically superior to. And if Cap knows Franks CIS is off aned knows it's a fight for his life, it's even more of a steamroll.

imo ofcourse That maybe the case, but there's one important thing Frank is better at - killing. And it's CIS off for him. IMO that should give him an advantage.

Originally posted by SamZED
I could swear there was a page with human Frank in shadowland. One little panel but he was clearly human, not undead.
That maybe the case, but there's one important thing Frank is better at - killing. And it's CIS off for him. IMO that should give him an advantage.

People have been trying to kill Cap for 50 years, just what exactly does Punisher bring to the table that Cap hasnt faced before? He's a highly trained vigilante/merc/thug who on a good day swings just about a notch below Daredevil in physicality. Yeah sounds like a perfect recipe for defeating arguably earths greatest fighter... In melee combat to boot.

Originally posted by SamZED
I could swear there was a page with human Frank in shadowland. One little panel but he was clearly human, not undead.
That maybe the case, but there's one important thing Frank is better at - killing. And it's CIS off for him. IMO that should give him an advantage. you're correct. Frank is becoming human soon since I believe his series has been cancelled

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Cap took 4-5 hits from Ironman, which was impressive to be sure, but he was ****ed all to hell after and had to have shit set in casts. Punisher took all that in stride (and a bit more before and after) in stride and kept going afterwards like nothing happened. Sentry knocked Frank flying like 200 yards through a wall and he was fine. Punisher is crazy, he's fought on two broke legs and kept going after a shot gun blew one of his ribs clean out of his body.

None of which he should be able to do. What are they smokin over at Marvel......

its possible. you would be amazed at what you could do if the pain wasnt a factor


in the eragon series galbatorix created soldiers that didnt have fear, pain, or a care for their own livelyhood but otherwise average humans. they would be getting kills with the bottom half of their bodies gone and insane shit like that

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
That was one punch to the hip, not ribs.

To me it didn't look like IM drew blood from Sentry.

Cap wins, btw.

Really? Looked like ribs. Which would hurt more?

It's been a while, but I remember Sentry being taken aback from Stark's blow, and there being a drop of blood under his nose.

Originally posted by Juk3n
People have been trying to kill Cap for 50 years, just what exactly does Punisher bring to the table that Cap hasnt faced before? He's a highly trained vigilante/merc/thug who on a good day swings just about a notch below Daredevil in physicality. Yeah sounds like a perfect recipe for defeating arguably earths greatest fighter... In melee combat to boot.

You don't read Punisher you don't know what you're talking about. Most of their fights he'd done well and as I've stated 100 times this version is a lot tougher.

Originally posted by Trackz
you're correct. Frank is becoming human soon since I believe his series has been cancelled

What?

Originally posted by Deadline
You don't read Punisher you don't know what you're talking about. Most of their fights he'd done well and as I've stated 100 times this version is a lot tougher.



What? I don't think there's an october solicitation for Punisher, they might give him a mini event and that's it.