Mjolnir vs. Bracers of Aegis

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Black bolt z
All of these test are run by thor and Wonder Woman using them but it isn't a battle between the two people.

Godblast is ONLY allowed if he can't do anything else to get past them.

No BFR


1: Can mjolnir do anything to get past them?

2: Can it do anything to break them?

3: Which can soak more energy output?

4: Which is a better defensive weapon?

5: Which is more fashionable?

6: Which is older?

Black bolt z
Anyone?

Colossus-Big C
debatable

baddabing
Originally posted by Black bolt z
Anyone?

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
debatable Warned

Rage.Of.Olympus
1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. Mjolnir.
4. Mjolnir.
5. Mjolnir.
6. Not sure. It's been said Mjolnir's creation is what killed the dinosaurs etc. if that counts for anything.

Omega Vision
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. Mjolnir.
4. Mjolnir.
5. Mjolnir.
6. Not sure. It's been said Mjolnir's creation is what killed the dinosaurs etc. if that counts for anything.
How is the Mjolnir a better defensive implement? Does it generate a passive 360 shield?

amnesia
Originally posted by Omega Vision
How is the Mjolnir a better defensive implement? Does it generate a passive 360 shield?


Well it can generate a 360 shield.

Colossus-Big C
Originally posted by baddabing
Warned sad

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Omega Vision
How is the Mjolnir a better defensive implement? Does it generate a passive 360 shield?

If Thor want's to, it can. It can make force fields big enough to encircle the U.N. Building.

Black bolt z
I seriously doubt mjolnir is the better defensive weapon.

amnesia
Originally posted by Black bolt z
I seriously doubt mjolnir is the better defensive weapon.

because your 13

"Id"
Originally posted by Black bolt z
I seriously doubt mjolnir is the better defensive weapon. How so? Mjolnir has impressive blocking/absorbing feats.

Konton
Originally posted by Black bolt z
All of these test are run by thor and Wonder Woman using them but it isn't a battle between the two people.

Godblast is ONLY allowed if he can't do anything else to get past them.

No BFR


1: Can mjolnir do anything to get past them?

2: Can it do anything to break them?

3: Which can soak more energy output?

4: Which is a better defensive weapon?

5: Which is more fashionable?

6: Which is older?

1. He can't.
2. He can't.
3. Can't say. The bracers don't have limits, but I haven't seen Mjolnir soak too much to handle.
4. Depends on the situation.
5. Bracers.
6. I don't know much about Thor mythos.

Black bolt z
Originally posted by amnesia
because your 13 How does that make a difference?Bracers are a primary defensive weapon.Mjolnir isn't.I just see the bracers as being a much better one.Originally posted by "Id"
How so? Mjolnir has impressive blocking/absorbing feats. So do the bracers

BlackZero30x
Originally posted by baddabing
Warned

wow this guys sucks at imitating.......

1: Can mjolnir do anything to get past them? No

2: Can it do anything to break them?No

3: Which can soak more energy output? Mjolnir

4: Which is a better defensive weapon? Bracers imo since they were actually created for that purpose

5: Which is more fashionable? Mjolnir.....it brings out the color of thors eyes stick out tongue

6: Which is older? i have no idea

Q99
Originally posted by Black bolt z
All of these test are run by thor and Wonder Woman using them but it isn't a battle between the two people.

Godblast is ONLY allowed if he can't do anything else to get past them.

No BFR


1: Can mjolnir do anything to get past them?

2: Can it do anything to break them?

3: Which can soak more energy output?

4: Which is a better defensive weapon?

5: Which is more fashionable?

6: Which is older?


1. Yes, it can hit where they aren't.

2. No.

3. The Bracers have no known limit, but I don't know know about Mjolnir's either.

4. Situational. I like the bracers for the task better, as when non-crossed they can be used to block things from two different directions, or when crossed they can provide a 180 shield. Being able to portal stuff out is good too though.

5. Bracers

6. Hm... in their current form the bracers are younger, but in any form the Aegis predates Mjolnir I'd say.

Sasaraixx
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. Mjolnir.
4. Mjolnir.
5. Mjolnir.
6. Not sure. It's been said Mjolnir's creation is what killed the dinosaurs etc. if that counts for anything.

LOL. I can't say that I'm surprised. laughing


1. Yes.
2. No.
3. I'm not sure. As others have said, the bracers have no known limit. I don't know if the same is true for Mjolnir. Mjolnir can also drain energy, something the bracers can't do.
4. I'd go with the bracers. They are primarily a defensive weapon.
5. Bracers
6. Not sure.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Sasaraixx
LOL. I can't say that I'm surprised. laughing

1. Yes.
2. No.
3. I'm not sure. As others have said, the bracers have no known limit. I don't know if the same is true for Mjolnir. Mjolnir can also drain energy, something the bracers can't do.
4. I'd go with the bracers. They are primarily a defensive weapon.
5. Bracers
6. Not sure.

Really? What exactly surprised you? Since I'm a bit bored, I've decided to take a look at your answers since mine seem to have gained your notice.

1. +1 for you.

2. According to Wonder Woman, her bracers couldn't stand up to too many attacks from the Circe unleashed Superman. Said Superman even broke her wrist by squeezing her bracers.I've seen Wonder Woman herself bend her bracers to fit around her broken wrist. At least that's the way it looked from the art. An enraged Superman also broke her bracers in the -now alternate- future. This was a future created by changing the origins of Superman/Batman and the two had to travel through time to restore the proper time line. So it wasn't one of those "possible" futures that has no bearing on the mainstream events but I guess it isn't as conclusive as the other scenes. Either way, Mjolnir being able to break to them when taking into account those scenes certainly seems possible.

3. Outside of the durability aspect, you yourself have noted Mjolnir's ability to absorb energy. The one time Mjolnir has shown to be overloaded by energy was Thor's God Blast.

4. That's some shitty reasoning. I hope you have better evidence than that. The bracers can block/deflect attacks and create a force field. Mjolnir can do not only that, but much more. Everything from turning one intangible/invisible to teleportation is possible with Mjolnir. Simply put, if I was in a situation where I needed a defensive weapon, I'd pick Mjolnir in a heartbeat.

5. That's a matter of opinion.

6. This I'm not so sure of either.

Starscream M
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. Mjolnir.
4. Mjolnir.
5. Mjolnir.
6. Not sure. It's been said Mjolnir's creation is what killed the dinosaurs etc. if that counts for anything. haha..no bias at all. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Rage.Of.Olympus
I can support every single one of my answers. This isn't me being biased, this is being honest based on the information that's been made available to me. It'd straight up tell you if my answers were based on my preference of Thor over Wonder Woman. Of course I can't be completely objective, it doesn't work that way, but I can be objective to the best of my ability.

......

Why am I wasting my time explaining this to you?

Starscream M
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I can support every single one of my answers. This isn't me being biased, this is being honest based on the information that's been made available to me. It'd straight up tell you if my answers were based on my preference of Thor over Wonder Woman. Of course I can't be completely objective, it doesn't work that way, but I can be objective to the best of my ability.

......

Why am I wasting my time explaining this to you? mjolnirs cracked more times than a prepubesant boy's voice and you have the gall to claim its a stronger defensive weapon?

its not as dependable because it is prone to breaking under extreme pressure.

Q99
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

2. According to Wonder Woman, her bracers couldn't stand up to too many attacks from the Circe unleashed Superman.

She said she couldn't stand up to many attacks even with the bracers (due to the shockwaves being made, I think). The bracers themselves showed no signs of giving.



He snapped her wrist by twisting it above the bracer as I saw it.



They adjust themselves to the wielder, that's how she can take them on and off.

It'd be possible for someone of very different wrist size to wear them too.



That... was an extremely crappy story. I don't remember the bracers breaking, but I'll take your word for it. That alt Wonder Woman was hit with a huge nerf bat before Superman even showed up anyway.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Starscream M
mjolnirs cracked more times than a prepubesant boy's voice and you have the gall to claim its a stronger defensive weapon?

its not as dependable because it is prone to breaking under extreme pressure.

facepalm

Mjolnir could be half as durable as her bracers, and it would still be the superior defensive weapon.

And lol at the exaggeration. I'm pretty confident I could count the number of times Mjolnir has been broken on one hand. Maybe an extra finger.

Another lol.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Q99
She said she couldn't stand up to many attacks even with the bracers (due to the shockwaves being made, I think). The bracers themselves showed no signs of giving.

She said that two more blows -similar to the ones that he just unleashed- would kill her and that even her bracers could withstand similar hits like that for so long.

Originally posted by Q99
He snapped her wrist by twisting it above the bracer as I saw it.

How did you come to that conclusion? He simply grabbed and squeezed, which made her bones go snap. No twisting was involved.

Originally posted by Q99
They adjust themselves to the wielder, that's how she can take them on and off.

It'd be possible for someone of very different wrist size to wear them too.

Didn't know that. I thought she physically bent them due to the way they were shaped. I guess it makes sense that she'd be able to manipulate them.

Originally posted by Q99
That... was an extremely crappy story. I don't remember the bracers breaking, but I'll take your word for it. That alt Wonder Woman was hit with a huge nerf bat before Superman even showed up anyway.

Nah, he was enraged and just pounded away until they broke. What do you mean? Before Superman/Batman showed up she and Uncle Sam's team defeated the Legion of Superheroes. While Superman was occupied with Uncle Sam she went on to kill Batman.

Sasaraixx
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Really? What exactly surprised you? Since I'm a bit bored, I've decided to take a look at your answers since mine seem to have gained your notice.

1. +1 for you.

2. According to Wonder Woman, her bracers couldn't stand up to too many attacks from the Circe unleashed Superman. Said Superman even broke her wrist by squeezing her bracers.I've seen Wonder Woman herself bend her bracers to fit around her broken wrist. At least that's the way it looked from the art. An enraged Superman also broke her bracers in the -now alternate- future. This was a future created by changing the origins of Superman/Batman and the two had to travel through time to restore the proper time line. So it wasn't one of those "possible" futures that has no bearing on the mainstream events but I guess it isn't as conclusive as the other scenes. Either way, Mjolnir being able to break to them when taking into account those scenes certainly seems possible.

3. Outside of the durability aspect, you yourself have noted Mjolnir's ability to absorb energy. The one time Mjolnir has shown to be overloaded by energy was Thor's God Blast.

4. That's some shitty reasoning. I hope you have better evidence than that. The bracers can block/deflect attacks and create a force field. Mjolnir can do not only that, but much more. Everything from turning one intangible/invisible to teleportation is possible with Mjolnir. Simply put, if I was in a situation where I needed a defensive weapon, I'd pick Mjolnir in a heartbeat.

5. That's a matter of opinion.

6. This I'm not so sure of either.

Q99 addressed most of these already but,

1. We agree but I highly doubt it is for the same reasons. Mjolnir can get around the bracers by hitting WW where the do not protect her. As I understand it, the aegis effect does not protect her from physical hits. Contact must be made directly to the bracers themselves.

2. I can't comment on the alternate future as I have not read that. But the fact that it is an alternate future does give me pause. As far as the other examples you listed, in none of them were the bracers themselves destroyed. The comment about the blows from Superman I believe was made with regards to her own body, not the bracers. The wrist breaking was done because Clark twisted her wrist. Not a scratch was done to the bracers themselves.

3 Again, I really can't say. I honestly don't understand what the question is asking. Is it talking about how much damage both weapons can take or energy they can absorb? Either way I think they are both off the charts. Remember, Diana did redirect a blast from the entire Greek Pantheon.

4. I consider teleportation to be an offensive ability. Intangibility - have to say that is a new one for me. I'm assuming its not something he does often? What are his limits while intangible?

Mjolnir is unquestionably the better weapon overall as it has both offensive and defensive capabilities and as such is therefore more versatile.

In close combat the bracers are unquestionably better for defending in a h2h situation. That's what they were created to do. It is just easier protecting yourself from attacks with bracers than it is a hammer. The force fields, blocking projectiles, etc are common to both. We will have to disagree/hold judgment on which of the two is better in that area. There is some debate as to weather the bracers themselves provide Diana with a passive boost to her durability as well.

Keep in mind that all of my reasoning is based on the Aegis myth of the bracers. I don't know what's going on with them now. Does anyone know when the origin of the bracers was changed to the aegis?

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Sasaraixx
Q99 addressed most of these already but,

1. We agree but I highly doubt it is for the same reasons. Mjolnir can get around the bracers by hitting WW where the do not protect her. As I understand it, the aegis effect does not protect her from physical hits. Contact must be made directly to the bracers themselves.

I can also see Mjolnir using it's space warping enchantment to get around the bracers.

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
2. I can't comment on the alternate future as I have not read that. But the fact that it is an alternate future does give me pause. As far as the other examples you listed, in none of them were the bracers themselves destroyed. The comment about the blows from Superman I believe was made with regards to her own body, not the bracers. The wrist breaking was done because Clark twisted her wrist. Not a scratch was done to the bracers themselves.

It wasn't an alternate future in the "Age of Apocalypse" sense but closer to the "Reigning" (Hope my examples work.) It basically became the future until they went back in time to change it so I think it holds at least some weight.

They weren't, but it certainly does add some precedent to the scene in which Clark breaks them. It also leads me to believe Mjolnir can break them. Like I told Q99, Wonder Woman specifically stated that the bracers could not withstand Superman's blows for too long. He didn't twist her wrist. He grabbed her, squeezed, and her wrist broke. I don't recall whether they were damage or not -I don't recall it being highlighted that they were- but it certainly supports pure physical force affecting them.

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
3 Again, I really can't say. I honestly don't understand what the question is asking. Is it talking about how much damage both weapons can take or energy they can absorb? Either way I think they are both off the charts. Remember, Diana did redirect a blast from the entire Greek Pantheon.

I think the question was intended to determine which can withstand more energy. Durability and energy related defenses probably are what counts here.

Ares wasn't present I believe.

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
4. I consider teleportation to be an offensive ability. Intangibility - have to say that is a new one for me. I'm assuming its not something he does often? What are his limits while intangible?

I consider it to be defensive as well as offensive. Dargo used teleportation -more specifically a space warp- to absorb a blast from a being possessing the power of Korvac. He then opened up a portal behind the being, causing his own blast to hurt him. So I think it can be used to both ends.

Lol, his only used it like once. embarrasment He created a vortex to make the Black Knight intangible/invisible to all around him except Thor. It makes sense Mjolnir would have this ability. It's been, able to affect the intangible/immaterial etc.

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
Mjolnir is unquestionably the better weapon overall as it has both offensive and defensive capabilities and as such is therefore more versatile.

I agree there.

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
In close combat the bracers are unquestionably better for defending in a h2h situation. That's what they were created to do. It is just easier protecting yourself from attacks with bracers than it is a hammer. The force fields, blocking projectiles, etc are common to both. We will have to disagree/hold judgment on which of the two is better in that area. There is some debate as to weather the bracers themselves provide Diana with a passive boost to her durability as well.

That depends on the warrior I think. Thor has been shown to be pretty adept with blocking attacks using Mjolnir. I just can't picture Thor being as effective with blocking using the bracers than he would the hammer in hand to hand personally. Of course, that might just be me being uncreative.

The hammer can do everything from deflect or knock away energy, to create barriers that can stop nearly any attack. In regards to close range battle.

I personally wouldn't want that to be the case. The passive boost.

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
Keep in mind that all of my reasoning is based on the Aegis myth of the bracers. I don't know what's going on with them now. Does anyone know when the origin of the bracers was changed to the aegis?

I'm just going off of what I've read. From what I know, her bracers are pretty much the same outside of Zeus unlocking a code that enables her to create lightning. I don't expect that to be seen anytime soon however. Not with the revamp etc. Giving her the ability to project lightning would be counterproductive to JMS goal from what I understand.

I have to go for now.

Q99
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
She said that two more blows -similar to the ones that he just unleashed- would kill her and that even her bracers could withstand similar hits like that for so long.

Yea, but I still didn't get the impression she was worried about them breaking, just that they wouldn't do the job for too long.

Worth noting is they've taken hits from a lot more in the past, even having enough of the impact get transmitted to hurt her is a fairly low showing for them.




http://www.picamatic.com/view/1230190_job110ay/

Looks to me like he bent the wrist back judging by the position her arm's in. Above the bracers in any case.




The bracers have taken stronger, and he had *way* too easy of a time taking her down. Fighting off an enraged Superman is something that she's done.... lesse, the Circe time when he was both enraged and amped. Sacrifice. The Tenth Circle (which was also lousy but still). Well, it comes up a lot and it's never that easy.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Q99
Yea, but I still didn't get the impression she was worried about them breaking, just that they wouldn't do the job for too long.

Worth noting is they've taken hits from a lot more in the past, even having enough of the impact get transmitted to hurt her is a fairly low showing for them.

Well, there was definitely uncertainty as to whether they would hold up under the stress for too long.

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/heroes/WonderWomanv2175e.jpg
Thanks to Liam.

Originally posted by Q99
http://www.picamatic.com/view/1230190_job110ay/

Looks to me like he bent the wrist back judging by the position her arm's in. Above the bracers in any case.

Not the scene I was thinking off.

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/heroes/WonderWomanv2175g.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/heroes/WonderWomanv2175h.jpg
Thanks to Liam.

Wonder Woman's bones are too damn breakable. Superman should just snap her neck and be done with it.

Originally posted by Q99
The bracers have taken stronger, and he had *way* too easy of a time taking her down. Fighting off an enraged Superman is something that she's done.... lesse, the Circe time when he was both enraged and amped. Sacrifice. The Tenth Circle (which was also lousy but still). Well, it comes up a lot and it's never that easy.

Meh. It didn't particularly bother me but if your a Wonder Woman fan, I guess it must have ticked you off to see her beaten down like that.

I acknowledge that Diana can hold her own against Superman. That I never doubted. Something you stated did catch my attention. Where was it stated he was amped during the Circe encounter?

I'll reply tomorrow.

Black bolt z
Originally posted by Sasaraixx

3 Again, I really can't say. I honestly don't understand what the question is asking. Pretty much if say surfer just had an unlimited quantity of energy and just kept on shooting equal amounts at both who would fall first?

Sasaraixx
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I can also see Mjolnir using it's space warping enchantment to get around the bracers.



It wasn't an alternate future in the "Age of Apocalypse" sense but closer to the "Reigning" (Hope my examples work.) It basically became the future until they went back in time to change it so I think it holds at least some weight.

They weren't, but it certainly does add some precedent to the scene in which Clark breaks them. It also leads me to believe Mjolnir can break them. Like I told Q99, Wonder Woman specifically stated that the bracers could not withstand Superman's blows for too long. He didn't twist her wrist. He grabbed her, squeezed, and her wrist broke. I don't recall whether they were damage or not -I don't recall it being highlighted that they were- but it certainly supports pure physical force affecting them.



I think the question was intended to determine which can withstand more energy. Durability and energy related defenses probably are what counts here.

Ares wasn't present I believe.



I consider it to be defensive as well as offensive. Dargo used teleportation -more specifically a space warp- to absorb a blast from a being possessing the power of Korvac. He then opened up a portal behind the being, causing his own blast to hurt him. So I think it can be used to both ends.

Lol, his only used it like once. embarrasment He created a vortex to make the Black Knight intangible/invisible to all around him except Thor. It makes sense Mjolnir would have this ability. It's been, able to affect the intangible/immaterial etc.



I agree there.



That depends on the warrior I think. Thor has been shown to be pretty adept with blocking attacks using Mjolnir. I just can't picture Thor being as effective with blocking using the bracers than he would the hammer in hand to hand personally. Of course, that might just be me being uncreative.

The hammer can do everything from deflect or knock away energy, to create barriers that can stop nearly any attack. In regards to close range battle.

I personally wouldn't want that to be the case. The passive boost.



I'm just going off of what I've read. From what I know, her bracers are pretty much the same outside of Zeus unlocking a code that enables her to create lightning. I don't expect that to be seen anytime soon however. Not with the revamp etc. Giving her the ability to project lightning would be counterproductive to JMS goal from what I understand.

I have to go for now.

In a hurry, but in short -

Yes, it was the pantheon sans Ares. That being said it is still an incredible feat and still shows how much the bracers can handle.

The alternate future thing - again, haven't read it so I really can't comment.

I'd like to see a scan of the Circe amped Superman. I don't remember the wording being the way you interpret it.

As for the Sacrifice wrist incident, I disagree with how you view the snap occurring. But on top of that, I don't see how it could happen the way you say. If he grabbed her wrists at the breakers, squeezed and broke it the way you say, that still doesn't comment on their durability. It would reflect their potential damage soak ability. He was not able to bend or harm them in anyway. It would only show that her bones are a lot less durable than the bracers. This is something we all know.

Of course you agree, I argued in favor of Thor stick out tongue

I don't think so really. Wielding a weapon like a hammer would leave you more vulnerable to attack. Thor might not be as adept with bracers but that would only be because he does not have the experience/training with them. If he spent as much time with them as he did Mjolnir, I think they would serve him better in this regard. The only instance I could see a weapon like Mjolnir being better for blocking melee attacks would be against another weapon as large. Someone using their fists or a small weapon like a dagger would be able to move faster and attack more accurately.

Before the lightning upgrade the origins of the bracers was changed such that they were forged from shards of Zeus' aegis shield. That was not always the case. Just doing a quick google search, it appears to be during the Perez run, issue 21. This means that the bracers are directly linked to not only Zeus' but Amaltheia as well. It also means that they are not indestructible because we know that the shield was broken. It took Cronus to break the shield however and later Ares was able to destroy the shards of the already broken shield. That is the kind of power needed to break the bracers. I think it is debatable whether or not Mjolnir is capable of that kind of power (Gail's run went on to point out that it would take a divine weapon to damage the bracers) but there is no way in hell Superman is strong enough to do it.

Now what JMS will do with them once Diana finally regains all of her powers back remains to be seen. And completely off topic but I like the lightning power. I think Diana should have a gift from Zeus (Athena is the one who had the bracers forged from the shards) and the lightning seems like the most logical choice.

Q99
The thing is, it happens a lot in Elseworlds. Wonder Woman goes from being a peer in the main universe to "Ungh, I fall down and lose," in those. It's really sad, and bad writing at that.




Hey, he's broken bones too smile And it's always her wrists, which are small particularly fragile bones (that don't affect combat ability much, thus allowing the writer have her fight through the pain yadda yadda), big ones are much harder to break.

As for that scan... eh, artist error. I'd wave it away as 'squeezing above the bracer'. After all, the wrist is what was broken and the bracers don't cover that.

Hm... and that fight also has Diana box his ears until they bleed, just like in Sacrifice. I wonder if it was done as a call-back.



I can't find it in the Respect thread scans, but from memory that's part of the spell, "His rage is enhanced and his form will change to reflect that growing rage yadda yadda," standard amp-spell stuff.

Superman's obviously physically covered in Doomsday bone spikes as a reflection of it.

Sasaraixx
Originally posted by Black bolt z
Pretty much if say surfer just had an unlimited quantity of energy and just kept on shooting equal amounts at both who would fall first?

I see.

Well, I believe WW would fall first but that would be because of her own durability and not the bracers. It would take strength from her to constantly deflect those blows. Rage I'm sure can speak to the properties of Mjolnir but being able to absorb the blasts would probably take less out of him. This is just speculation on my part.

Now if it were have Surfer blast the bracers and blast Mjolnir and see which he could damage first - I don't know. Other than this alternate future story with Superman (which again, the idea of Superman breaking them is ridiculous to me), the bracers have not been damaged post crisis I believe. Rage can address the same for Mjolnir. I don't know what it would take to damage it.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Sasaraixx
In a hurry, but in short -

Yes, it was the pantheon sans Ares. That being said it is still an incredible feat and still shows how much the bracers can handle.

Just something I felt like pointing out.

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
The alternate future thing - again, haven't read it so I really can't comment.

I'll drop it then.

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
I'd like to see a scan of the Circe amped Superman. I don't remember the wording being the way you interpret it.

I posted them in response to Q99.

Circe's spell was meant to unleash all of Superman's pent-up rage and emotion from the OWAW story-line. I don't recall it amping him.

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
As for the Sacrifice wrist incident, I disagree with how you view the snap occurring. But on top of that, I don't see how it could happen the way you say. If he grabbed her wrists at the breakers, squeezed and broke it the way you say, that still doesn't comment on their durability. It would reflect their potential damage soak ability. He was not able to bend or harm them in anyway. It would only show that her bones are a lot less durable than the bracers. This is something we all know.

When I was referring to the wrist snapping incident, I was talking about the Circe Superman issue and not sacrifice. I'm pretty sure I pointed that out a few posts back.

If Superman is able to grab her bracers, and squeeze with enough force to break Diana's wrist, it suggests that sufficient levels of force can affect them. Which coincides with the other Superman/Bracer encounters.

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
Of course you agree, I argued in favor of Thor stick out tongue

Of course.

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
I don't think so really. Wielding a weapon like a hammer would leave you more vulnerable to attack. Thor might not be as adept with bracers but that would only be because he does not have the experience/training with them. If he spent as much time with them as he did Mjolnir, I think they would serve him better in this regard. The only instance I could see a weapon like Mjolnir being better for blocking melee attacks would be against another weapon as large. Someone using their fists or a small weapon like a dagger would be able to move faster and attack more accurately.

I just don't see Thor resorting to Wonder Woman esque maneuvers to block with the bracers. It just doesn't....sit right with me. And Thor's been shown to defend against attacks pretty well with Mjolnir. In a purely hand to hand scenario with a character equally adept with each tool, I can see your point.

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
Before the lightning upgrade the origins of the bracers was changed such that they were forged from shards of Zeus' aegis shield. That was not always the case. Just doing a quick google search, it appears to be during the Perez run, issue 21. This means that the bracers are directly linked to not only Zeus' but Amaltheia as well. It also means that they are not indestructible because we know that the shield was broken. It took Cronus to break the shield however and later Ares was able to destroy the shards of the already broken shield. That is the kind of power needed to break the bracers. I think it is debatable whether or not Mjolnir is capable of that kind of power (Gail's run went on to point out that it would take a divine weapon to damage the bracers) but there is no way in hell Superman is strong enough to do it.

If Trans to Skyfather level power is required to break them (Ignoring the Superman scenes.), then I'd say Mjolnir can to.

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
Now what JMS will do with them once Diana finally regains all of her powers back remains to be seen. And completely off topic but I like the lightning power. I think Diana should have a gift from Zeus (Athena is the one who had the bracers forged from the shards) and the lightning seems like the most logical choice.

I honestly don't think Diana needs any more powers. I think a writer should strip of all of the abilities the Gods gave her -in particular flight- and have her as primarily a warrior character with enhanced stats in her own verse. Or at least remove her flight, tone down her stats so that she's more reliant on her skill and weapons.

Black bolt z
Originally posted by Sasaraixx
I see.

Well, I believe WW would fall first but that would be because of her own durability and not the bracers. It would take strength from her to constantly deflect those blows. Rage I'm sure can speak to the properties of Mjolnir but being able to absorb the blasts would probably take less out of him. This is just speculation on my part.

Now if it were have Surfer blast the bracers and blast Mjolnir and see which he could damage first - I don't know. Other than this alternate future story with Superman (which again, the idea of Superman breaking them is ridiculous to me), the bracers have not been damaged post crisis I believe. Rage can address the same for Mjolnir. I don't know what it would take to damage it. Its just supposed to be which would be broken/overloaded first.

But for the first 2 tests thor and WW are used.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Q99
The thing is, it happens a lot in Elseworlds. Wonder Woman goes from being a peer in the main universe to "Ungh, I fall down and lose," in those. It's really sad, and bad writing at that.

This is definitely more valid than an Elseword.

I personally think a Superman who'd seen Diana kill someone close to him would beat the shit out of her. She'd go down fighting, give him a battle, and all that.

Originally posted by Q99
Hey, he's broken bones too smile And it's always her wrists, which are small particularly fragile bones (that don't affect combat ability much, thus allowing the writer have her fight through the pain yadda yadda), big ones are much harder to break.

As for that scan... eh, artist error. I'd wave it away as 'squeezing above the bracer'. After all, the wrist is what was broken and the bracers don't cover that.

Hm... and that fight also has Diana box his ears until they bleed, just like in Sacrifice. I wonder if it was done as a call-back.

True. He dislocated her shoulder in this issue as well.

Nah. He clearly squeezed over the bracers.

Not sure.


Originally posted by Q99
I can't find it in the Respect thread scans, but from memory that's part of the spell, "His rage is enhanced and his form will change to reflect that growing rage yadda yadda," standard amp-spell stuff.

Superman's obviously physically covered in Doomsday bone spikes as a reflection of it.

I don't remember the exact wording of the spell, but I do recall the spell being meant to unleash all of Superman's pent-up rage and emotion from the OWAW story-line.

Superman being covered in Doomsday is a reflection of the spell. It's not however intended to show an amalgamation or amp I believe.

Sasaraixx
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus


It really don't understand why some people are so uncomfortable with a powerful Wonder Woman. For me at least, the gifts from the gods and her relationships with them are part of what make her interesting. To each his/her own I guess. I don't think she should be powered down one bit. I would like to see her display more skill when fighting beings as strong or stronger than herself. Other than Orion, there really aren't many very skilled big heroes who operate on that power level.

Spire
Oh KMC...

http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt112/Spire84/th_thorfear.jpg

http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt112/Spire84/th_prettysimple.jpg

Rage.Of.Olympus
What's the point of those? We're discussing whether or not Thor/Mjolnir can do anything to break them.

Of course you might have just posted them for fun.

Mjolnir had lost all of it's power and enchantment at that time. If Thor can destroy Uru -at least at that time- I would assume the Hulk could as well. Just so people know the context.

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
It really don't understand why some people are so uncomfortable with a powerful Wonder Woman. For me at least, the gifts from the gods and her relationships with them are part of what make her interesting. To each his/her own I guess. I don't think she should be powered down one bit. I would like to see her display more skill when fighting beings as strong or stronger than herself. Other than Orion, there really aren't many very skilled big heroes who operate on that power level.

I'm not uncomfortable with Wonder Woman being powerful. I just think she was better off as a character who was purely a self sufficient warrior. I like that take. I think JMS is doing it right. Take her away from the mainstream Universe -specifically away from this No.2 to Superman crap- remove her power of flight -it just doesn't sit right with me- and let her go beat the shit out of people. JMS is writing her with vast superhuman stats but that's fine. Are they still doing that virginity thing? They need to get rid of that to. I mean really.

Look at the bright side, at least we'll get some impressive -and legit- hand to hand showings finally. Of course she's still superhuman....

*cough* Thor *cough*

Q99
Eh, she's been a godly-powered champion from the beginning. I think it fits her better than just being an enhanced warrior, less power doesn't make her any cooler. The ability to turn off her gifts when desired, sure, but Wonder Woman works well with her abilities.



They're just not addressing it I think.

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Giving physical form to the anger sounds like it's probably an amp to me.

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