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Z's been getting a lot of respect lately (defeating a Dream Imp in his own realm), KO'd Starbreaker, defeating Brother Night and his team by herself, etc... How does a high end Z do against Classic Thor?



http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/1772/94291-39547-zatanna_large.jpg

vs

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/43469/1316666-thor_first_thunder_large.jpg

KMC Z is above Galactus in power.

I say Zatanna take the cake. Poof Thor out of the fight.
Originally posted by SamZED
KMC Z is above Galactus in power. Really?

Hammer throw.

KO.

Thor wins.

"Pots."

This after Mjolnir kos her?

Before. She has reacted to bullets after they were fired, was teleporting around Mary Marvel without backwards speak at h2h range, and reacted to (and casted a spell to shield from) a laser attack that pwnd both Batman and Superman when the three of them were shot at.

A think Mjolnir travels a couple fps faster than a bullet. lulface

Those are like Spiderman level feats.

Eh, if Magneto and Cap can react to the hammer I would say Zee could too.

Originally posted by Mindset
A think Mjolnir travels a couple fps faster than a bullet. lulface

Those are like Spiderman level feats.


Bullets travel light speed, right?

Thor's crazy durability makes him too much for zatanna to deal with, imho.

IIRC he fought Zeus for a month straight, and Mjolnir is extremely versatile- able to cut off even the Juggernaut from his nearly infinite magical power source.

Zatanna has strong offense but not quite the defense or stamina to outlast Thor. One or two of his more devastating attacks (hammer strike @ lightspeed, god force blast, magical lightning, etc) would put her down pretty quickly.

Originally posted by amnesia
Bullets travel light speed, right?
...

Yes.

Thor. Hammer. Throw. Dead.

Originally posted by Space M ummy
Thor's crazy durability makes him too much for zatanna to deal with, imho.

IIRC he fought Zeus for a month straight, and Mjolnir is extremely versatile- able to cut off even the Juggernaut from his nearly infinite magical power source.

Zatanna has strong offense but not quite the defense or stamina to outlast Thor. One or two of his more devastating attacks (hammer strike @ lightspeed, god force blast, magical lightning, etc) would put her down pretty quickly.

Her offense is crazy, though. Able to lay Starbreaker down flat and Zor. Both who are above Thor in the cosmic chain.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Her offense is crazy, though. Able to lay Starbreaker down flat and Zor. Both who are above Thor in the cosmic chain.

Thor tanked Zeus (a skyfather)for a month, who's above him in the cosmic chain.

Cut off Juggernaut's access to Cyttorak, (an elder god) turning him powerless- Cyttorak is well above Thor AND Zeus in the cosmic chain.

Thor Absorbed and redirected an attack from Rachel Grey when she had the phoenix force and KO'ed her with her own power. The phoenix force is well above Cyttorak AND Zeus AND Thor in the cosmic chain.

Thor tanked a point blank shot from a Celestial when mjolnir was completely depowered and it only made him angry. Celestials...well, you get the picture.

Mjolnir is a crazy energy sponge. this includes magical and psionic damage and as shown with juggernaut can completely cut off enchantments from outside sources.

This is probably going to be a very big problem for Zatanna who is casting spells- all spellcasting really is is calling on the aid of external forces to assist you.

Oh...and since the OP specified "classic" thor...Mjolnir still has crazy time control powers. AND can soul steal. AND Matter manipulate. AND teleport her to crazy environments she can't survive in. She's out of her league here.

edit: I'm not saying she isn't strong, because she is. I'm saying she can't keep up the insane level of power needed to take thor down AND defend from the kind of punishment he can dish out for long enough. she just doesn't have the stamina and damage soak he does.

Not really. She's been up against spectre class foes, foes who can destroy solar systems, and she doesn't have to use energy spells. She also can put him to sleep or mind control spells.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Not really. She's been up against spectre class foes, foes who can destroy solar systems, and she doesn't have to use energy spells. She also can put him to sleep or mind control spells.

All of the above I listed (skyfather, phoenix force, celestials) are well above the solar system busting class, and Thor soaked damage from all three. the last without the aid of mjolnir(!).

Hell, Heralds can nova stars and Thor beat down the surfer numerous times. Zatanna is not stronger than Zeus, the Phoenix, or Celestials. I'm sorry man but that's just insanity.

Can Zatanna take thor on in the core of the sun? the vaccuum of space? The icy depths of Niflheim?

Can she tank blasts strong enough to kill galactus? survive having her soul stolen? Avoid shots from objects going 2 or 3 times lightspeed? Counter the air in her lungs turning into solid rock? Carry on a fight in the middle of a category 5 tornado?

Thor-properly written- would beat the bejeezus out of her.

She has resisted her soul taken from her, and has defenses to stop powerful attacks, so, yes, she can.

Also, Zor the Time Tailor has reality warping powers, who can also manipulate time, yet she defeated him.

Z gets no respect, but, IMO, her most powerful spells can take down Thor. He's not unbeatable.,

I think Thor takes one look at her and decides he rather f**k her than fight her...

Then, after he seduces her, they go back to the motel and combine to make a bastard child behind Sif's back...

o_0

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
I think Thor takes one look at her and decides he rather f**k her than fight her...

Then, after he seduces her, they go back to the motel and combine to make a bastard child behind Sif's back...

o_0

That's the Conan way!

cis on i think zantana can beat thor... thor would seriously hold back and even refuse to hit her first...

Originally posted by Prep-Man
She has resisted her soul taken from her, and has defenses to stop powerful attacks, so, yes, she can.

Also, Zor the Time Tailor has reality warping powers, who can also manipulate time, yet she defeated him.

Z gets no respect, but, IMO, her most powerful spells can take down Thor. He's not unbeatable.,

Mjolnir was designed by a Skyfather, and is one of the most powerful weapons that exist in marvel. It's been shown to affect heralds, other gods, skyfathers, demons, and celestial beings. Show me Zatanna resisting attacks from something on it's level and you might have a point. Loki is an immortal god with magic that's even more powerful than Classic Dr. Strange, and even he couldn't stop Thor from flat out absorbing his life force with the hammer. Zatanna is screwed.

Her "most powerful spells" can get absorbed and manipulated by mjolnir and shot back at her 100x. There's really no way around that. And you still haven't addressed the problem of Thor simply blocking magical forces from the battlefield.

I never said Thor was unbeatable, it just takes more than a strong offense to take him out. I haven't seen any kind of defensive showings from Zatanna that show she can take the kind of punishment that Thor can dish out for any length of time.

She has no superhuman durability and no superhuman speed. That's practically a death sentence against someone like Thor.

Amen!

So they both win...Sif loses... ;p

Originally posted by Space M ummy
Mjolnir was designed by a Skyfather, and is one of the most powerful weapons that exist in marvel. It's been shown to affect heralds, other gods, skyfathers, demons, and celestial beings. Show me Zatanna resisting attacks from something on it's level and you might have a point.

Her "most powerful spells" can get absorbed and manipulated by mjolnir and shot back at her 100x. There's really no way around that. And you still haven't addressed the problem of Thor simply blocking magical forces from the battlefield.

I never said Thor was unbeatable, it just takes more than a strong offense to take him out. I haven't seen any kind of defensive showings from Zatanna that show she can take the kind of punishment that Thor can dish out for any length of time.

She has no superhuman durability and no superhuman speed. That's practically a death sentence against someone like Thor.

Actually, she can also reverse attacks on Thor. She pulled this off many times.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Actually, she can also reverse attacks on Thor. She pulled this off many times.

she can reverse attacks 100 times stronger than what she can dish out? really? I'd love to see this. particularly if she's burning alive in muspelheim, or choking to death on the moon at the time.

Also, a good explanation as to why the life force drain that will kill Loki (an immortal god with massive magical abilities) would for some reason not work on Zatanna would be helpful.

I don't have the scans, but she recently did it to Brother Night, who gets his powers from the masters of Hell.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
I don't have the scans, but she recently did it to Brother Night, who gets his powers from the masters of Hell.

Somehow I doubt Brother Night truly is 100 times stronger than her most powerful attack. but on the off chance he is, what then? Thor absorbs and rechannels it again, magnifying it 100x further.

Mjolnir has absorbed and rechanneled the energy to annihilate a galaxy with ease. Thor can keep this up all day. Somehow I doubt Zatanna has that kind of ability.

You still haven't addressed how Zatanna gets around Thor blocking off her powers with a magical barrier either.

By taking down barriers? Come on, this is a top tier mage. She's done that as well. Hell, nobody can really enter Z's house, because she makes unbreakable barriers herself.

Personally, I think Zatanna has a real chance, but I'm deathly afraid of Thor enthusiasts, and don't wish to have an encounter with any.

Thor FTW.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
By taking down barriers? Come on, this is a top tier mage. She's done that as well. Hell, nobody can really enter Z's house, because she makes unbreakable barriers herself.

top tier mage? Cyttorak is an ELDER GOD. Thor completely cut off his enchantment to his avatar on earth (The juggernaut) and would have killed him if not for the 60 second time limit back in the day.

The barrier made it so no outside magical forces could pass the barrier. as a mage, all Zatanna does is call on outside magical forces to empower herself. Thor uses this, and she's done.

And as for "not being able to enter her house" that trick is blatantly ripped from Strange who was doing that bit decades ago. The same strange who's magical powers are inferior to Loki, the trickster god, who thor has owned and killed on numerous occasions.

"top tier mage" is nothing next to the powers of elder gods and skyfathers. you know it, I know it, game over.

Agree to disagree. I'm not going to change your opinion and you won't change mine.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Agree to disagree. I'm not going to change your opinion and you won't change mine.

why did you make the thread if you were already of the (unshakable) opinion that Zatanna would beat Thor?

There are more posters than you, my friend. I just don't agree with your reasoning. BOTH characters here have their high and low points. Elder God? So what? Z's gone up against Imps and cosmic foes alike. Doesn't really matter.

i always figured zantana's power was will based as in depending who she is using it on may or may not be heavily effected.

i'm thinking of lobo mostly also what is thor's magic resistance on himself with him being a god and his brother being loki and all?
unless she has one of these:
thor

i cant even bother to acknowledge her.

Originally posted by Space M ummy
Thor's crazy durability makes him too much for zatanna to deal with, imho.

IIRC he fought Zeus for a month straight, and Mjolnir is extremely versatile- able to cut off even the Juggernaut from his nearly infinite magical power source.

Zatanna has strong offense but not quite the defense or stamina to outlast Thor. One or two of his more devastating attacks (hammer strike @ lightspeed, god force blast, magical lightning, etc) would put her down pretty quickly.

She doesn't need stamina. As long as she doesn't get insta KO-d by a hammer toss then she should win every time. I won't begin to really debate if she can survive it because he won't use it every time anyway.

Zatanna has a few key spells she likes to use in confrontation.

1. Tegrof, or forget, is her go to spell for mind rape.

2. Then there is her barrier spell that is conjured in what seems like a different spell every time.

3. Pots. Pots has put Superman, Lobo, and an assortment of other people on or above Thor's physical level in their place. It completely immobilizes them until she decides to reverse the spell.

Honestly, he's not getting around number three.

You all who think Zatanna can realistically beat "Classic Thor;" Classic Thor stood up to the MAGICAL power of Zeus for a month straight...if he was able to do that, what in the heck can this sexy chick do to him other than carry his children in her womb!?

In addition, I gotta believe that...without PIS/CIS...he's going to land an attack at some point; since she resists damage no better than a normal human, any attack that lands...even partially...kills her. Period. The end.

With PIS/CIS on she can win as Thor will do everything in his power to subdue her without harming her while she'll be going all out to get the win...so yeah in a PIS/CIS senario, she has a chance of beating him (but if he simply blocks out magical power with mjolnir...which he can definitely do...she has nothing), but turn that crap off...and she's going to die.

Besides, unlike Supes and Lobo...Thor is naturally magic resistant...so this is a bad matchup for her from the very start.

Zatanna has weakened and affected Spectre, who's magic resistant as well. Yet, she also been called one of the best mages in any dimension.

Oh sure...I am certain she can affect Thor with her spells...the question is can she put him down with them...and keep in mind this is Classic Thor we are talking about.

I really dont see how she can do this:

1) He resists magic so her attacks/spells will never land with full force...
2) He has high TP resistance combined with a strong will; so this combined with his resist to magic will keep him from going down this way IMHO...
3) He has great damage soak; again, combined with his magic resist and he is withstanding tremendous direct damage from her before going down...
4) He can negate magic...
5) He can absorb (via Mjolnir) and redirect magic used against him and magnify its original intensity several orders of maginitude greater than it was originally; and she only has normal human durability, so this is overkill many times over if he uses this against her...

I just cant see her putting Classic Thor down without PIS/CIS...especially it he wants to win.

I don't see why not. She's put down an evolved Sun-Eater, even though she had to summon all she had.

She has enough raw power to put him down for sure

So she has more raw power than Zeus?

She has enough raw power to ko people of Zeus' calibre

Does she also have the durability to withstand Classic Thor's counterattack?

And please dont tell me that you think she can put down Classic Thor without him being able to fight back...or that she one-shots him...that would be ridiculous.

I think Thor wins so i don't know what to tell you

Zee has enough power to take him down.
Thor has vast magic resistance (unllike Superman who was mentioned earlier) to endure until he takes her down.

The question is will he go all out on her?
I say Thor 6/10 due to his experience against magic users (enchantress, hel, loki, etc...)

Loki has never been able to take down Thor and he's been able to morph/transmute ppl of Bor's caliber with his magic. Mjolnir offers huge magic/energy resistance and protects Thor from those kind of attacks.

Zatanna is powerful offense-wise, perhaps but Thor CAN simply drain her magical defense and conk her one before she can create a spell strong enough to actually do him harm.

Also, please note that both Thor and Zatanna has fought and beaten people way above their weight class in the past.

Thing is Zatanna and Thor are equal offense-wise. But Thor is more durable, resistant to magic AND is faster (and thus can get the first attack off).

He takes this. Maybe 8/10.

And LOL at people who think Zatanna can beat Thor in the reaction-time department based on one feat.

Oh, please. Thor's not a speedster. Hell, if you look at Zatanna's respect thread, she can toss out a spell in a blink of an eye and doesn't have to even say anything.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Oh, please. Thor's not a speedster.

mjolnir is

If guys like Magneto deflect Mjonlir, then Zatanna has a good shot. Thor's not going to throw his hammer at a hot babe in fishnets. Not gonna happen.

hammer tosses tend to vary in speed and force.
he was shown to throw it at casual speeds and at times it was shown to fly faster than light...
although I agree...he aint going to decapitate a girl

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Oh, please. Thor's not a speedster. Hell, if you look at Zatanna's respect thread, she can toss out a spell in a blink of an eye and doesn't have to even say anything.

I think you're being selective here. Please look at Thor's respect thread. He's been able to reply to light speed attacks as well. :-/

It's laughable to think that Zatanna can outspeed Thor. Her reflexes isn't exactly temperred by years of combat training.

Magic is Thor's b!tch. If Loki hasn't been able to one-shot Thor with a death spell or turn Thor into a rat, neither is Zatanna.

I'm not really being selective. MOST of the time I see Thor fight, it's not the way you describe it. That's all.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
I'm not really being selective. MOST of the time I see Thor fight, it's not the way you describe it. That's all.

And Zatanna speedblitzes her opponents right? :-/