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Dante Sparda, from the "DMC" series

http://brittany-kun.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/dd941.jpg

Vs.

The Demon Etrigan.

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/images/users/uploads/11481/etrigan3.jpg

PIS Off, CIS Off, Kill On.

note* dante should have all of his power-ups from the 4 games

carry on

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Dante Sparda, from the "DMC" series

http://i34.tinypic.com/2qxar09.jpg

Vs.

The Demon Etrigan.

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/images/users/uploads/11481/etrigan3.jpg

PIS Off, CIS Off, Kill On.

Whoop dat trick.

OK, guys. Where do we start? And BTW, not ALL the powerups, just the stuff from games 3,1,4 and related canon stuff (DMC3 manga, comics & anime). Two is "20+ years in the future" and the events there might have been at least partially retconned by the fourth game. DMC2 feats for Dante shall be treated the same as PC feats for Etrigan

The powers and abilities are in use "as in for the latest version" but with no "absence presumption", thus Bangle of Time from DMC1 overlaps Quicksilver and four main styles of combat are applied as per DMC4. Doppelganger is present as per 3, flight/demonic form feats as per DMC1.
All the weaponry is avaliable from games 1,3, 4.

And now, when the rules of debate for our whitehaired demi-demonic beauty are established, let's see what helps him to kick Etrigan's ass:
1. Holy water grenade, Batman!
Now let's remember one simple fact - unlike Dante, who is full fledged halfblood, Etrigan is pure demon. He is closer to Warhammer daemonhost and his Jason Blood "anchor" form has little to no power. He also has all the lame weaknesses pureblood demons posess, including the one to holy items (Dante, on the other hand, as seen in the episode 4 of anime, Rolling Thunder, has no problem entering the church and stuff and is immune to stuff that is made to pin down purebloods) and even lamer one to iron.
Now, Dante (in all the games we analyse) has the habit to carry a flack or two of holy water... that are the must have items when you go againts the creature like Etrigan. Basically his cryptonite (when Etrigan can't say the same about Dante).
2. Speed kills you...with style!
While it's pointless for Dante to compete with Etrigan in terms of superstrength (dude dukes it out with Supes, Wonder Woman and other creme-de-la-creme of DC brickset), in terms of superhuman speed I'm yet to see some decent feats from Etrigan...Dante, on the other hand...

Let's start with some of the most famous stuff:
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Our hero at his youngest shown (19 years old). Notice that according to the laws of physics object needs to reach at least Mach 5 speed for air to start burning around it due to friction.
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"Bullet tennis" - one needs to have around Mach 1-Mach 2 reaction speed to perform a feat like that.
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Missle dodging/missle surfing...once again shows superhuman reaction speed.
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Toys with Nero, his nephew, who has some above-peak-human speed by himself.
http://www.wegame.com/watch/DMC4_Nero_vs_Dante_Bloody_Palace/
As NPC in the 4th game, Dante shows his superhuman speed and accuracy by being able to shoot bullets out of the air by his own.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94k7K4o2bPU
Dances around the Savior.
RJ6168DoxHY
And here's just one - not even the best one - example of superhuman aim.
Superhuman accuracy+superhuman speed+a few flacks of hellfire to the firebreathing rhyming mouth=KO?
And there's Qucksilver/Bangle of Time to even chances a bit more.

3. The bigger they are...
And now let's talk about anti-brick powers aka the ones that basically nerf Etrigan's greatest asset - his "DC brick worth his salt" class strength.
Dante by himself is not very strong, I estimate his pure lifting strength as Class 15, maybe 20 (he has much better hitting force feats and blocking feats). However, in terms of blocking feats there's nifty Royal Guard style set of abilities that allow him to absorb the energy from enemy's hits (even Class 100 ones)... and redirect this energy back, using it to power himself up.

Here's basically the best example of him against Savior, legitimate Class 100 opponent\weight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqN7qw3T-PI&feature=related
Also some cool stuff with weapons.

I won't even touch the fire breath cause Dante has stuff in his arsenal that allow him to either neutralise it (Ifrit, Agni/Rudra) or negate (Cerberus).

Given everything, stategy "KO using holy water&superspeed, finish off with Yamato cut-through-dimensions" blade works wonders at least 7/10.
I give maybe three wins to Etrigan's exotic powers such as matter manip, but let's remind you that here he (Etrigan) likely won't have time for anything that requires long casting/summoning rituals.

jawdrop

Etrigan was able to evade Superman. Don't tell me he has no speed.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Etrigan was able to evade Superman. Don't tell me he has no speed.

Any REAL combat speed feats for Etrigan? Bricks with no speed at all are able to fight Superman.

Originally posted by Lord_Talron
jawdrop

Guys asked for good analysis - I gave it to them. I didn't touch Etrigan's weakness to iron that breaks common knowledge rule (holy water weakness is obvious, ferrofobia for demons is nonexistant in DMC-verse) and think 6-7/10 outcome is OK, given speed and agility advantage, superhuman aim and weakness exploitation via holy water.

What kind of energy projection (if any) does Dante possess?

He mostly focuses his energy projection powers through the weapons - the "infinite ammo" of his guns is explained by the fact that he does not shoot actual bullets but magical energy blasts disguised as ones. That's why he can regulate the power of his shots from "ricochet the snooker balls" to "one-shot high level demons". That's his No.1 choice mostly.

Also, if, per Psycho Gundam's and mine stipulation, Dante has access to his arsenal from games 1/3/4, he has wide array of elemental weapons, some of them allow him either block or counter Etrigan's energy projection (Ifrit or Agni& Rudra for "firewall", Cerberus to cool the opponent down a bit).
He also can fire electrical blasts when in regular demon form (that ability is amped by Alastor or Nevan weapons).

Also let's don't forget Sparda DT/true demon form from DMC where he's highly resistant to most magic spells and can summon "fire dragons" - large fireballish stuff.

7mzBZMhwF7o

Shows off his ability to pretty much ignore hellfire even in human form, also some pretty nasty shot ("I hoped for a bit more than a few sparks...".

That's not comparable to Etrigan's fire which can hurt people with planet level+ durability.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
That's not comparable to Etrigan's fire which can hurt people with planet level+ durability.

Like Superman w/his exploitable weakness, right? Need moar hellfire for you?
euaLjELg_eQ
Meet Ifrit, the embodiment of this stuff Make no mistake, hellfire is pretty nasty stuff, only now when we talk about high level demons.

Also, no answer how Etrigan survives being put in the field of timestop (Quicksilver/Bangle of Time) and then getting his head cut off by Yamato?

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Etrigan was able to evade Superman. Don't tell me he has no speed.

Grundy has super speed.

By the way, Dante is winning this 10/10 in a f***** stomp. This is a none fight. He is faster, stronger, more durable, a better fighter, more powerful, more skilled... etc...

Batman has gave etrigan a fight and held his own.

Dante is KILLING him and I cant wait for Mike to show me this speed feat.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
What kind of energy projection (if any) does Dante possess?

He really doesnt need it; Etrigan would get blitzed the entire time and Etrigan attacks wouldnt even hit Dante.

Looks like the gauntlet has been thrown down...

Also, Etrigan has two weaknesses - one is common knowledge even in Dante's world and can be exploited given the slightest chance - holy water, the second one is really lame (iron), I won't count on it as common knowledge, and whether or not it gets exploited depends on the battlefield.

I have presented the analysis covering most exploitable weaknesses of Etrigan. Some physical\magical durability feats for Dante will be presented later if needed.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Looks like the gauntlet has been thrown down...

Do you like the show so far? I just need some quality responses from Etrigan supporters... something...substantial.

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Also, Etrigan has two weaknesses - one is common knowledge even in Dante's world and can be exploited given the slightest chance - holy water, the second one is really lame (iron), I won't count on it as common knowledge, and whether or not it gets exploited depends on the battlefield.

I have presented the analysis covering most exploitable weaknesses of Etrigan. Some physical\magical durability feats for Dante will be presented later if needed.

Good post Charlotte. You did a good job... I'm about to post some scenes as well.

What was the name of that 80 ft fire demon that he fought? I cant remember.

I wish I knew shit about Etrigan. But isn't Dante's best feat of strength stopping a punch from Savior?

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Do you like the show so far? I just need some quality responses from Etrigan supporters... something...substantial.
The site doesn't really have Etrigan fanboys.

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Do you like the show so far? I just need some quality responses from Etrigan supporters... something...substantial.

There is none... he has a decent showing against Supes but its nothing to suggest that he has super human speed, he basically tap into his magic the entire time. He has a good strength feat though, he punched Superman to the moon but thats about it. There is nothing showing that he can keep up or even hit someone like Dante that believe in "true blitzing" the entire fight.


Then Dante is walking around with Etrigans weakness... this is a none fight because its like 100% that Dante WILL get the first attack and Dante is a outright killer so his first attack might be a head shot.

Originally posted by carver9
Good post Charlotte. You did a good job... I'm about to post some scenes as well.

What was the name of that 80 ft fire demon that he fought? I cant remember.

Belial\Beliar (depends on transliteration, I don't really know).

Originally posted by carver9
There is none... he has a decent showing against Supes but its nothing to suggest that he has super human speed, he basically tap into his magic the entire time. He has a good strength feat though, he punched Superman to the moon but thats about it. There is nothing showing that he can keep up or even hit someone like Dante that believe in "true blitzing" the entire fight.


Then Dante is walking around with Etrigans weakness... this is a none fight because its like 100% that Dante WILL get the first attack and Dante is a outright killer so his first attack might be a head shot.

Outright killer against Etrigan's kind, remember, Etrigan is NOT a halfblood, he's pureblood posessing the human host (Jason Blood).

As for strength... first of all, speed kills, and next, Dante has Royal Guard that accumulates and releases enemy's kinetic energy back to enemy... it was tested not only aganist Savior, but (by yound and inexperienced Dante) against Class 70 Beowulf. I think that a barrage of hits from class 70 with no scratch is impressive shit.

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Outright killer against Etrigan's kind, remember, Etrigan is NOT a halfblood, he's pureblood posessing the human host (Jason Blood).
Are there actual showings of Etrigan getting pwned by Holy Water or the like?

Thought Dante also differentiated good demons from bad, but his universe doesn't really have any good demons.

Are we thinking Dante carries Holy Water with him at all times or something?

I honestly dont think the holy water will work...

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Outright killer against Etrigan's kind, remember, Etrigan is NOT a halfblood, he's pureblood posessing the human host (Jason Blood).

As for strength... first of all, speed kills, and next, Dante has Royal Guard that accumulates and releases enemy's kinetic energy back to enemy... it was tested not only aganist Savior, but (by yound and inexperienced Dante) against Class 70 Beowulf. I think that a barrage of hits from class 70 with no scratch is impressive shit.

I agree with everything you said, thats why I said this was a stomp/none fight. Etrigan has a lot of showings, decent ones but not enough to make me think he could beat Dante.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Thought Dante also differentiated good demons from bad, but his universe doesn't really have any good demons.

Are we thinking Dante carries Holy Water with him at all times or something?

A flack or two are buyable weaponry in all the games, it's bog standart equipment for demon hunters in the -verse, I think.

Holy water\iron weaknesses are read up on Wiki, I'll dig up actual scans later. It's hard to devote myself to passionate debating with full time job... really miss good olde college times

I think iron weakness is more of a BS one, TBH. Reminds me of Dresdenverse fairies...

Then what's the Etrigan Weakness Dante carries with him?

Edit: Oh.

I thought Holy Water healed you. I never bought any of it in the game.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Then what's the Etrigan Weakness Dante carries with him?

Edit: Oh.

I thought Holy Water healed you. I never bought any of it in the game.

The flacks can be used as grenades. It's not a healing item.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Then what's the Etrigan Weakness Dante carries with him?

Edit: Oh.

I thought Holy Water healed you. I never bought any of it in the game.

Etrigan weakness is metal.

That part I knew, though I thought it was Iron, which I did not think was what Dante's sword was made of.

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel


I think iron weakness is more of a BS one, TBH. Reminds me of Dresdenverse fairies...
With Dresdenverse fairies though the iron weakness is even worse, pretty much any object with some iron in it can hurt them. In DC I think the iron content has to be very high as in cast iron, steel doesn't cut it.

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Also, Etrigan has two weaknesses - one is common knowledge even in Dante's world and can be exploited given the slightest chance - holy water, the second one is really lame (iron), I won't count on it as common knowledge, and whether or not it gets exploited depends on the battlefield.

I have presented the analysis covering most exploitable weaknesses of Etrigan. Some physical\magical durability feats for Dante will be presented later if needed. I thought cold iron being a weakness to demons was common knowledge in THIS world? I guess that just if you study folklore.

It's the origin of the horseshoe being lucky, generally because they were made of iron, hanging one up was said to ward off witches, undead and other supernatural malevolent entities such as demons.

Seems well known enough in Marvel, or at least the X-Men know about it.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
With Dresdenverse fairies though the iron weakness is even worse, pretty much any object with some iron in it can hurt them. In DC I think the iron content has to be very high as in cast iron, steel doesn't cut it.

It need to be real "cold iron", alloys and enhanced alloys doesn't cut it.

And I don't remember ANY DMC demons being specifically weak to iron, that's why that falls under "fairy tales and superstitions" category in Dante's mind... though the chance to exploit the weakness depends on the battlefield.
If they say fight on construction site or in medieval castle, then given Dante's talent for improvisation...

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
It need to be real "cold iron", alloys and enhanced alloys doesn't cut it.

And I don't remember ANY DMC demons being specifically weak to iron, that's why that falls under "fairy tales and superstitions" category in Dante's mind... though the chance to exploit the weakness depends on the battlefield.
If they say fight on construction site or in medieval castle, then given Dante's talent for improvisation...

Isnt Dante sword magical in nature, especially when he is wielding it? Doesnt he also have another transformation where that Ironman looking suit cross his body and he gains more speed, strength, and durability along with magic?

Etrigan throws a buss at him.

Do the DCU's demons have a weakness to Holy Water?

Originally posted by amnesia
Etrigan throws a buss at him.

And Dante either use super speed and dodge the bus or he simply cut the bus in half and then the beating starts again, Etrigan getting blitzed.

Originally posted by carver9
Isnt Dante sword magical in nature, especially when he is wielding it? Doesnt he also have another transformation where that Ironman looking suit cross his body and he gains more speed, strength, and durability along with magic?

That's not "suit", that's basic demon form, his "true nature".

Etrigan being weak to holy water (both as demon and Jason Blood) is Wiki info, once again. I'll dig the scan.
Also, friggin' Blue Devil was able to do some damage to Etrigan on magical front. High level demon (halfblood, but still high level) channeling magical energy through his weapons is definetely nothing to snort at.
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/2742/pg134135ox6.th.jpg

Just a low level example of channeling energy via sword. That was 18years old Dante, and he wasn't trying to do this damage on purpose - just being pissed off after having bad dream.

And here's more... substantial cut.
SG-mA0P3NW4

Carver tends to be wrong. So etrigan wins.

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel

(Dante, on the other hand, as seen in the episode 4 of anime, Rolling Thunder, has no problem entering the church and stuff and is immune to stuff that is made to pin down purebloods)


In DMC, even full blooded demons can go to the church. Trish would be one example since she did go to the church in order to fight Lady.

Originally posted by amnesia
Carver tends to be wrong. So etrigan wins.

Damn.

no Etrigan fans here?

Not really a very popular character. And he needs to learn some real rhymes before he can throw down with Dante.

smmfh...

Originally posted by Etna
no Etrigan fans here?

No.

I like Etrigan. I just don't know enough about him.

Dislike Dante a lot though. Is why I wanna try.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
I like Etrigan. I just don't know enough about him.

Dislike Dante a lot though. Is why I wanna try.

Then try! Never give up!

"Don't believe in yourself! Believe in me, who believes in you!"

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Like Superman w/his exploitable weakness, right? Need moar hellfire for you?

Like Lobo. Who has no weakness to fire or magic.

Really, the idea that someone who hangs with DC Top Tiers can be speedblitzed by Dante who is only a few times the speed of sound at best is ridiculous.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Like Lobo. Who has no weakness to fire or magic.

Really, the idea that someone who hangs with DC Top Tiers can be speedblitzed by Dante who is only a few times the speed of sound at best is ridiculous.
Or Solomon Grundy for that matter who actually has some resistance to magic.

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Guys asked for good analysis - I gave it to them. I didn't touch Etrigan's weakness to iron that breaks common knowledge rule (holy water weakness is obvious, ferrofobia for demons is nonexistant in DMC-verse) and think 6-7/10 outcome is OK, given speed and agility advantage, superhuman aim and weakness exploitation via holy water. im just jaw dropp'd impressed, thats all <3

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Like Lobo. Who has no weakness to fire or magic.

Really, the idea that someone who hangs with DC Top Tiers can be speedblitzed by Dante who is only a few times the speed of sound at best is ridiculous.

Again, Despero, Kovikt, Titus, Solomon Grundy, The General, Shaggy man, Kalibak, Mongul Jr, Mongul, along with EVERY high tier brick has stood up to DC finest and almost NONE of them has displayed bullet timing speed.

Stop using who a person fight as evidence of super speed because if that was the case, Gladiator has on panel evidence of flying 100 times the speed of light and he has been tagged by Colossus and out right gotten that a** whipped by Hulk.

Now if you can show me etrigan keeping up with someone like flash, someone that use his speed ALL OF THE TIME, then I would be impressed.

Originally posted by carver9
Etrigan weakness is metal.

Then he goes down
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojY_mtyMu7Y

Originally posted by Parmaniac
Then he goes down
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojY_mtyMu7Y

LOL... that should do it.

Originally posted by carver9
Again, Despero, Kovikt, Titus, Solomon Grundy, The General, Shaggy man, Kalibak, Mongul Jr, Mongul, along with EVERY high tier brick has stood up to DC finest and almost NONE of them has displayed bullet timing speed.

Stop using who a person fight as evidence of super speed because if that was the case, Gladiator has on panel evidence of flying 100 times the speed of light and he has been tagged by Colossus and out right gotten that a** whipped by Hulk.

Now if you can show me etrigan keeping up with someone like flash, someone that use his speed ALL OF THE TIME, then I would be impressed.
Carver please don't be a hypocrite. How many times have you pointed to Grundy and the like tagging Superman as proof that Superman has sub-luminal combat speed?

Is this you admitting those arguments that you attempted to use to boost DBZ characters against Superman were crap? If so bravo.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Carver please don't be a hypocrite. How many times have you pointed to Grundy and the like tagging Superman as proof that Superman has sub-luminal combat speed?

Is this you admitting those arguments that you attempted to use to boost DBZ characters against Superman were crap? If so bravo.

NNOOOO, I never said Superman doesnt have combat speed but what I did say is that using Superman as evidence of a person having super speed is false. Hell, early this year in Superman/Batman, Batman flipped a blitzing, AMPED, Superman on his a** and admitted that Superman brute strength and combat skill is his weakness so I guess that means that Batman is a speedster as well. Almost every superhuman in DCU has stood up to Superman (they didnt do great but they seen him and reacted to him during combat) during combat and Superman has faced almost EVERYONE in a combat scenerio but again, that doesnt mean that they are speedsters. Hawkman has stood up to Black Adam who has on panel showings of running mach 500... so I guess that also mean that Hawkman is a speedster as well.

Thats why we use speed feats because again, Hulk alone has faced some of the most powerful people that has nano second speed feats so I guess we can say since he has faced, Surfer, Gladiator, Hyperion, Nova, along with thousands of others that have speed feats, Hulk is just as fast.

Thats like me saying "Since Rhino has tagged Surfer and charged him all the way into a river, he can keep up with Wonder Woman: or since Hulk has stood up to Gladiator, someone that has blitzed at the speed of light and someone that has flown 100 times the speed of light, he can keep up with Martian Manhunter or Wonder Woman.

Its a lame way of debating.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Carver please don't be a hypocrite. How many times have you pointed to Grundy and the like tagging Superman as proof that Superman has sub-luminal combat speed?

Is this you admitting those arguments that you attempted to use to boost DBZ characters against Superman were crap? If so bravo. There are times I strongly suspect Carver doesn't understand his let alone other's arguments.

"Superman isn't that fast! Slower people have tagged him!" ~Carver9

"You can't use slower people tagging someone to prove that the faster person is slow! Colossus and the hulk have tagged gladiator!" ~Carver9

Originally posted by carver9
Thats like me saying "Since Rhino has tagged Surfer and charged him all the way into a river, he can keep up with Wonder Woman: or since Hulk has stood up to Gladiator, someone that has blitzed at the speed of light and someone that has flown 100 times the speed of light, he can keep up with Martian Manhunter or Wonder Woman.

Its a lame way of debating. Or "Since slower people have tagged Superman that means Goku will have no problem with him?"

Originally posted by Creshosk
There are times I strongly suspect Carver doesn't understand his let alone other's arguments.

"Superman isn't that fast! Slower people have tagged him!" ~Carver9

"You can't use slower people tagging someone to prove that the faster person is slow! Colossus and the hulk have tagged gladiator!" ~Carver9

Ok, show me where I EVER said Superman ISNT that fast; show me my post because I have always said "Superman is fast as hell".

I'll be waiting.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Or "Since slower people have tagged Superman that means Goku will have no problem with him?"

LOL... so this is about Goku... We'll discuss this on Sept 5.

what happens on 9/5?

Originally posted by carver9
LOL... so this is about Goku... We'll discuss this on Sept 5. No, this is about your hypocritical, and what you admitted are lame, arguments.

Originally posted by marwash22
what happens on 9/5?

We cant talk about anything DBZ related until Sept 5 but Creshok keep trying to bate me into talking about it but I can wait. I already debated with Pr about DBZ for two so that was all I needed for a week.

there's no rule about DBZ-talk in the off-topic thread

Originally posted by Creshosk
No, this is about your hypocritical, and what you admitted are lame, arguments.

So with that said, you admit that Hulk is 100 times the speed of light?

I already told you my arguments, you are misinterpreting EVERYTHING that I said. I never said Superman was not fast. Go back and read my posts.

Originally posted by marwash22
there's no rule about DBZ-talk in the off-topic thread

LOL... , naah, I can wait. Now if this was a DBZ thread, I would eat Creshok alive and easy at that.

Originally posted by carver9
Thats like me saying "Since Rhino has tagged Surfer and charged him all the way into a river, he can keep up with Wonder Woman: or since Hulk has stood up to Gladiator, someone that has blitzed at the speed of light and someone that has flown 100 times the speed of light, he can keep up with Martian Manhunter or Wonder Woman.

Its a lame way of debating.

Originally posted by carver9
The speed was minimum between Goku and Picollo vs Raditz, LOL... they couldnt even see his movements.

No its not, flash has been tagged by speedsters that are much slower than him but DBZ characters speed is on so much of a different level that they cant even see there opponents moving and these are people that can see at super human speeds.
Originally posted by carver9
Surfer has been tagged by Hulk, knocked in a lake by Rhino, taken over by a symbiote, along with a thousand of other things.

He is fast but he isnt frieza fast.

Talk about lame arguments.

Originally posted by carver9
LOL... , naah, I can wait. Now if this was a DBZ thread, I would eat Creshok alive and easy at that. Not really. Ignoring facts and evidence and ignoring logic and making what you admit are lame arguments is not a way to "eat someone alive".

In fact it's a pretty good way to look really pathetic and hypocritical.

You undermine your own arguments. sad really.

Lol. So, we can whittle this down to:

"That's like me saying that Hulk is fast because he tagged Surfer!"
"Surfer's not that fast, he got tagged by Hulk!"

Lawl lawl lawl

Originally posted by Creshosk
Talk about lame arguments.

Everything in that post that I said is true now again, where did I say that Superman is slow.

How about this, I'm going to give you some examples of how you and Endless Mike logic fail.

Here we have Gladiator flying at 100 times the speed of light.

http://img370.imageshack.us/i/wtfship2tj8.jpg/

Here we have Gladiator flying at hyper speed.

http://img160.imageshack.us/i/hyperspeedui9.jpg/

Here we have Gladiator performing moves within Nanoseconds.

http://img68.imageshack.us/i/39597113mf8.jpg/

Here we have Gladiator using speed against Thor.

http://img224.imageshack.us/i/42660845wb4.jpg/

Here we have Gladiator blitzing.

http://img5.imageshack.us/i/71744606.jpg/

http://img19.imageshack.us/i/65500345.jpg/

Even with ALL of the scans I showed you, he was going toe to toe with the Hulk, Cannonball was able to tag him numerous of times, Rogue has hit him, Cyclops has blasted him, Colossus has hit him, and the list goes on.

Originally posted by Existere
Lol. So, we can whittle this down to:

"That's like me saying that Hulk is fast because he tagged Surfer!"
"Surfer's not that fast, he got tagged by Hulk!"

Lawl lawl lawl

He isnt Superman fast (Surfer) but he does have some good showings with his speed.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Not really. Ignoring facts and evidence and ignoring logic and making what you admit are lame arguments is not a way to "eat someone alive".

In fact it's a pretty good way to look really pathetic and hypocritical.

You undermine your own arguments. sad really.

I never said that Surfer was a true speedster so I didnt ignore anything but what I do know is that even if Surfer isnt a true speedster, the speed that he has is above Hulks.

You're proving my point about not being able to understand either your own posts or other people posts. Seriously:

Originally posted by carver9
Surfer has been tagged by Hulk, knocked in a lake by Rhino, taken over by a symbiote, along with a thousand of other things.

He is fast but he isnt frieza fast.

Originally posted by Creshosk
You're proving my point about not being able to understand either your own posts or other people posts. Seriously:



In both of my post I said that Surfer was fast so what are you getting at? The only thing that I used against that was he isnt frieza fast.

Originally posted by carver9


In both of my post I said that Surfer was fast so what are you getting at? The only thing that I used against that was he isnt frieza fast. This isn't about any specific character carver. this is about your hypocritical arguments.

In fact you used nearly the same exact wording when you did an about face because someone else made a type of argument, you're so found of making, against you.

I don't know how much simpler I can make it for you.

"It'd be like me saying..."

And then you say something that you DID say. Or something very close to it.

Originally posted by Creshosk
This isn't about any specific character carver. this is about your hypocritical arguments.

In fact you used nearly the same exact wording when you did an about face because someone else made a type of argument, you're so found of making, against you.

I don't know how much simpler I can make it for you.

"It'd be like me saying..."

And then you say something that you DID say. Or something very close to it.

So again, do you think Hulk reflexes is 100 times the speed of light since he fought someone that has on panel showings of going that fast? That is the ONLY way you can dispute my argument.

Endless Mike stated that Etrigan kept up with Superman, someone who has on panel showings of running 2000 mps so do you think Etrigan reflexes is = to that or > that since Mike is using fighting Superman as a speed feat?

Hyperion has a showing of flying a being from a planet into a sun before he actually had the time to react and he also have nanoseconds combat on panel and Hulk has DESTROYED Hyperion on panel so with that said, the only way you can say I am wrong is by agreeing that Hulk has light speed reaction. Do you agree with this?

Originally posted by carver9
So again, do you think Hulk reflexes is 100 times the speed of light since he fought someone that has on panel showings of going that fast? That is the ONLY way you can dispute my argument. Strawman. False Dichotomy.

Thanks for proving that you're incapable of understanding what other people say.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Strawman. False Dichotomy.

Thanks for proving that you're incapable of understanding what other people say.

Its not a straw man. False Dichotomy.

You pointed my post out so you must be against what I said so if you are against what I said, prove me wrong.

I understand exactly what you said but you are misinterpreting my post and you are not showing me what I asked for. You said that I said Superman was slow... I would love to see this post.

Originally posted by carver9
Its not a straw man. False Dichotomy. Its a strawman because saying "So you think that hulk is >C" Has ****all to do with my post. ITs a false dichotomy because I don't have to attack the strawman argument you set up to prove my point.

Originally posted by carver9
You pointed my post out so you must be against what I said so if you are against what I said, prove me wrong.Where did I make the argument? Why should I prove something I don't care about?

It has NOTHING to do with what I'm saying.

Originally posted by carver9
I understand exactly what you said/b] Then how come you're arguing a point I never made? Why is it that you still haven't addressed my actual point?


Originally posted by carver9
but you are misinterpreting my post and you are not showing me what I asked for This is projecting at its finest. Why should I prove a point I never made? Why are you dodging the point I AM making?

Originally posted by carver9
. You said that I said Superman was slow... Prove it.

Originally posted by carver9
I would love to see this post. And I would love to see the post where you think I made foundation for you to demand proof of something I never said.


Again, my point is simple: You're a hypocrite and lack the ability to understand what people say.

Originally posted by Creshosk
There are times I strongly suspect Carver doesn't understand his let alone other's arguments.

"Superman isn't that fast! Slower people have tagged him!" ~Carver9

"You can't use slower people tagging someone to prove that the faster person is slow! Colossus and the hulk have tagged gladiator!" ~Carver9

Here ya go... Superman isnt that fast? When did I ever say this? Then you put slower people have tagged him... Is this false? Do you disagree?

Originally posted by Creshosk
Its a strawman because saying "So you think that hulk is >C" Has ****all to do with my post. ITs a false dichotomy because I don't have to attack the strawman argument you set up to prove my point.

Where did I make the argument? Why should I prove something I don't care about?

It has NOTHING to do with what I'm saying.

Then how come you're arguing a point I never made? Why is it that you still haven't addressed my actual point?


This is projecting at its finest. Why should I prove a point I never made? Why are you dodging the point I AM making?

Prove it.

And I would love to see the post where you think I made foundation for you to demand proof of something I never said.


Again, my point is simple: You're a hypocrite and lack the ability to understand what people say.

With this said, our debate is pointless and there is nothing for me to talk about. If you dont disagree with what I said then I dont care about anything else, its wasting space and it is also spamming the thread.

Originally posted by carver9
Here ya go... Superman isnt that fast? When did I ever say this? Then you put slower people have tagged him... Is this false? Do you disagree?

Originally posted by carver9
this isnt Superman that we are talking about, this is someone who is MUCH faster than Superman combat wise. This is someone that has never been tagged by someone that doesnt have super speed.

Superman is fast but he isnt DBZ fast. 90% of the things that has happened to Supes in a comic would NEVER happen to someone with DBZ level of speed.

dumbass.

Hmm...

Nah, I'm staying out of this one.

Originally posted by Creshosk
dumbass.

Where did I say that Superman wasnt fast... I said that Superman is fast but he isnt DBZ fast. I can also say this, Superman is fast but he isnt Flash fast... or this, Superman is fast but isnt Northstar fast...

Again, I never said Superman WAS NOT fast... I said that he isnt DBZ fast and he isnt. If anyone else is reading this, please do not respond to my thoughts of DBZ vs Superman speed, we can discuss this through PM or in 2 weeks... Thanks.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Hmm...

Nah, I'm staying out of this one.

You can get into it Illa...

Originally posted by carver9
Where did I say that Superman wasnt fast... I said that Superman is fast but he isnt DBZ fast. I can also say this, Superman is fast but he isnt Flash fast... or this, Superman is fast but isnt Northstar fast...

Again, I never said Superman WAS NOT fast... I said that he isnt DBZ fast and he isnt. If anyone else is reading this, please do not respond to my thoughts of DBZ vs Superman speed, we can discuss this through PM or in 2 weeks... Thanks.

"Superman is fast but he isnt DBZ fast." "This{not superman} is someone that has never been tagged by someone that doesnt have super speed."
Superman isn't that fast! Slower people have tagged him!" ~Carver9


I've color coded the paraphrasing.

But yeah, you basically said what I paraphrased it to.

Wow. It evolved into a superman speed thread.

shut up carver. Seriously, **** DBZ

Originally posted by amnesia
Wow. It evolved into a superman speed thread.

shut up carver. Seriously, **** DBZ All because he didn't like someone else using his logic against him.

Originally posted by Creshosk
"Superman is fast but he isnt DBZ fast." "This{not superman} is someone that has never been tagged by someone that doesnt have super speed."
Superman isn't that fast! Slower people have tagged him!" ~Carver9


I've color coded the paraphrasing.

But yeah, you basically said what I paraphrased it to.

LOL... WOW; misinterpretation yet again. The only thing that I am going to say to this is Superman is fast, VERY fast, has proven that he is fast, is one of the fastest Heralds but he isnt DBZ fast.

Now can we get off of this subject please. I told you about Supermans speed... I agree with you and I have always agreed with you, Superman is truly fast, now lets drop it. I never disagreed with you on that part and I never will unless he get a power degraded and I cant see that happening. Wonder Woman is fast also... Martian Manhunter is fast, Hyperion is fast, Surfer is fast, Gladiator is fast, and the list goes on.

Now who do you think will win this fight Creshok?

Originally posted by amnesia
Wow. It evolved into a superman speed thread.

shut up carver. Seriously, **** DBZ

LOL... so you are blaming me for this... read back please and come back and holla at me when you see who brought everything up. I'm tired of you all pointing me out when its not me that is bringing everything up.

You keep talking about dragonball.

I don't care for bad animation. Toriyama is the Loeb of manga.

That's enough guys.

This thread's about Dante Vs. Etrigan. Let's stay on topic.

Originally posted by carver9
LOL... WOW; misinterpretation yet again. The only thing that I am going to say to this is Superman is fast, VERY fast, has proven that he is fast, is one of the fastest Heralds but he isnt DBZ fast. "He isn't that fast, slower people have tagged him!"

That is what you're saying. You might not realize it but that is EXACTLY what you're saying. not word for word, but meaning.

"People without superspeed have tagged him, therefore he's slower than X"

People with superspeed have never tagged me, no matter how fast they go. Guess that means that I'm even faster than people who have been tagged by people with superspeed?

Originally posted by amnesia
You keep talking about dragonball.

I don't care for bad animation. Toriyama is the Loeb of manga.

I DID NOT BRING UP DBZ FIRST, I WAS THE ONE THAT ASKED CRESHOSK TO GET "OFF" OF THE SUBJECT. I WAS THE ONE THAT SAID INSTEAD OF SPAMMING THIS THREAD ABOUT DBZ IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS "PM" ME.

READ BACK PLEASE. SH**

Originally posted by Creshosk
"He isn't that fast, slower people have tagged him!"

That is what you're saying. You might not realize it but that is EXACTLY what you're saying. not word for word, but meaning.

"People without superspeed have tagged him, therefore he's slower than X"

People with superspeed have never tagged me, no matter how fast they go. Guess that means that I'm even faster than people who have been tagged by people with superspeed?

I think Dante would win, what about you?

Originally posted by illadelph12
That's enough guys.

This thread's about Dante Vs. Etrigan. Let's stay on topic. This is kind of on topic with superman's speed being used, since someone used superman's speed as a comparison of Etrigan.

Since carver insists that "Tagging superman doesn't mean they're fast"

It's important to address the issue that's being used as a basis for the foundation of determinging one of the combatants speeds.

It's like having a character that's in the fight outruns a train, and this would be like quantifying the speed of the train. While the train isn't in the fight, it was used as a comparison to the stat of a character.

Carver, I know you didn't bring it up, no need to defend yourself (which will only drag it out further).

Just drop it please. Nothing further to be discussed, and no need to fill up this thread with unrelated arguments.

Originally posted by carver9
I think Dante would win, what about you? I suppose anyone could win if you downplay their opponents feats. and then ignore or twist any discussion relating to said feats.

Originally posted by Creshosk
This is kind of on topic with superman's speed being used, since someone used superman's speed as a comparison of Etrigan.

Since carver insists that "Tagging superman doesn't mean they're fast"

It's important to address the issue that's being used as a basis for the foundation of determinging one of the combatants speeds.

It's like having a character that's in the fight outruns a train, and this would be like quantifying the speed of the train. While the train isn't in the fight, it was used as a comparison to the stat of a character.

No its not on topic, I dont care about that subject... I want to know about this fight, who would win and why and I would like some speed feats from Etrigan "himself" showing that he can keep up with Dante.

Who do you think would win?

Originally posted by Creshosk
I suppose anyone could win if you downplay their opponents feats. and then ignore or twist any discussion relating to said feats.

HHHMMM... so you do think Etrigan has a chance?

Why?

Because high durability and strength?

Originally posted by Creshosk
This is kind of on topic with superman's speed being used, since someone used superman's speed as a comparison of Etrigan.

Since carver insists that "Tagging superman doesn't mean they're fast"

It's important to address the issue that's being used as a basis for the foundation of determinging one of the combatants speeds.

It's like having a character that's in the fight outruns a train, and this would be like quantifying the speed of the train. While the train isn't in the fight, it was used as a comparison to the stat of a character.

No, it's not.

In the case of DBZ all of the characters are actually displayed with having superspeed and fighting at superspeed, which is the basis for Carver's comment, even if it's misguided.

That's not the case in comics, as we both know, and therefore it's not necessary to drag this out.

Please drop it.

Originally posted by amnesia
Because high durability and strength?

Now I agree with this, durability wise I think they are about equal but Etrigan does have the upper hand strength wise. The thing is, Etrigan isnt completely invulnerable and Dante isnt just a stabber, he has powers of his own along with the speed, skill, and combat advantage.

Originally posted by illadelph12
No, it's not.

In the case of DBZ all of the characters are actually displayed with having superspeed and fighting at superspeed, which is the basis for Carver's comment, even if it's misguided.

That's not the case in comics, as we both know, and therefore it's not necessary to drag this out.

Please drop it. Again this isn't about the specific characters. It's about Carver's double standard. It just so happens that these quotes came from when he's arguing for DBZ. I'm not discussing who is faster in that context. just Carver's argument that "Superman is not as fast because he's been tagged by slower people."

Regardless of who carver was promoting at the time.

I even showed where he mentions that Surfer was tagged by rhino to downplay Surfer's speed. Neither of which is a DBZ character.

Originally posted by carver9
HHHMMM... so you do think Etrigan has a chance?

Why? Because Etrigan has tagged superman.

Now that that opens THAT back up as I know how you'll respond, how about we fast foreward back to where we were?

This is what a cross genre thread should be.

Originally posted by amnesia
This is what a cross genre thread should be.

you're welcome

flirt

Well, as probably the only person who wants to even try for Etrigan, if he's matched Superman at all or at least punched him to the moon I'd say he's probably stronger than Dante. My knowledge of Dante's strength puts his best feat at stopping one of Savior's punches which I think was 300 tons, which I think is class 30. If Etrigan has ever matched Superman then that would put him at what, class 100?

I dunno what to say about speed. Has Dante ever fought a demon as fast as him? My admittedly limited DMC knowledge says his fastest opponent was probably Vergil. If Etrigan can prove to be faster than Dante's fastest pure demon opponent it could prove to be helpful.

Looking at Wikipedia I notice a few abilities of possible interest, including a healing factor, a master of sorcery which, if it includes TK of some form could render Dante somewhat helpless, and Telepathy which may allow him to read Dante's mind before he even moves. This coupled with precognition could help to even out that speed problem. Extrasensory powers are there, but I'm not sure of what use they might be, or even to what extent any of these powers work.

Also, Wikipedia mentions super speed and magically enhanced claws and fangs, and even energy projections that apparently are not limited to hellfire. It says his strength allows him to stand against people like Superman. While that doesn't necessarily mean he's as strong as Supes, it could put him close. Close could be enough to top Dante in that area.

Originally posted by carver9
You can get into it Illa... no homo

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Well, as probably the only person who wants to even try for Etrigan, if he's matched Superman at all or at least punched him to the moon I'd say he's probably stronger than Dante. My knowledge of Dante's strength puts his best feat at stopping one of Savior's punches which I think was 300 tons, which I think is class 30. If Etrigan has ever matched Superman then that would put him at what, class 100?

I dunno what to say about speed. Has Dante ever fought a demon as fast as him? My admittedly limited DMC knowledge says his fastest opponent was probably Vergil. If Etrigan can prove to be faster than Dante's fastest pure demon opponent it could prove to be helpful.

Looking at Wikipedia I notice a few abilities of possible interest, including a healing factor, a master of sorcery which, if it includes TK of some form could render Dante somewhat helpless, and Telepathy which may allow him to read Dante's mind before he even moves. This coupled with precognition could help to even out that speed problem. Extrasensory powers are there, but I'm not sure of what use they might be, or even to what extent any of these powers work.

Also, Wikipedia mentions super speed and magically enhanced claws and fangs, and even energy projections that apparently are not limited to hellfire. It says his strength allows him to stand against people like Superman. While that doesn't necessarily mean he's as strong as Supes, it could put him close. Close could be enough to top Dante in that area.

Good post, now the only thing that we are missing is scans. I want to see some speed feats, durability feats, etc...

Originally posted by psycho gundam
no homo

LOL... I should have read my post a little more careful before pressing submit.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Because Etrigan has tagged superman.

Now that that opens THAT back up as I know how you'll respond, how about we fast foreward back to where we were?


Good speed feat, now do you have scans showing fast reflexes like bullet timing speed etc... instead of who he fought?

That would be nice.

Etrigan imo. He just has plain better feats to me.

Originally posted by carver9
Good speed feat, now do you have scans showing fast reflexes like bullet timing speed etc... instead of who he fought?

That would be nice.

"who they fought" is admissable under certain circumstances.



Question to anyone who reads Etrigan: Does he still have that dual strength clause where he's stronger in Hell than on Earth?

&

Would it matter in this fight, or is he automatically at full capacity?

Originally posted by -Pr-
Etrigan imo. He just has plain better feats to me.



"who they fought" is admissable under certain circumstances.

But that rule cant apply for certain individuals, it has to apply for ALL. Example, Creshosk saying that Etrigan has super speed since he fought Superman should also apply to Hulk having super speed since he fought Gladiator or Colossus having super speed since he fought Gladiator or Wolverine and Cannonball having super speed since they fought Gladiator or Wolverine having unrealistic speed since he has tagged Mimic who have on panel showings of combating at 93000 mps or him tagging Quicksilver... hope you get my point.

Originally posted by carver9
But that rule cant apply for certain individuals, it has to apply for ALL. Example, Creshosk saying that Etrigan has super speed since he fought Superman should also apply to Hulk having super speed since he fought Gladiator or Colossus having super speed since he fought Gladiator or Wolverine and Cannonball having super speed since they fought Gladiator or Wolverine having unrealistic speed since he has tagged Mimic who have on panel showings of combating at 93000 mps or him tagging Quicksilver... hope you get my point.

I wasn't talking about certain individuals, i was talking about certain instances. Big difference.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I wasn't talking about certain individuals, i was talking about certain instances. Big difference.

Gotcha... my bad.

Originally posted by carver9
Good post, now the only thing that we are missing is scans. I want to see some speed feats, durability feats, etc...

Probably won't get any out of me. I don't even know where to begin.

Originally posted by carver9
But that rule cant apply for certain individuals, it has to apply for ALL. Example, Creshosk saying that Etrigan has super speed since he fought Superman should also apply to Hulk having super speed since he fought Gladiator or Colossus having super speed since he fought Gladiator or Wolverine and Cannonball having super speed since they fought Gladiator or Wolverine having unrealistic speed since he has tagged Mimic who have on panel showings of combating at 93000 mps or him tagging Quicksilver... hope you get my point. Nobody (at the moment) is arguing that punching a standing-still speedster is a clear demonstration of super-speed.

However, tagging Superman mid-flight clearly is:

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/owned/ActionComics762p10.jpg

Unless we're assuming that Superman was asinine enough to fly extremely slowly towards Etrigan, and then proceed to get punched to the moon.

So I'm gonna go ahead and venture that if he can do that, he can tag Dante.

On a side note, if Dante doesn't see his hellfire coming, and given that Etrigan's hellfire has vanquished demons with ease before, and given Superman issues, what's the argument that it won't affect Dante?

The believe the strength of Etrigan seems to be way stronger then Dante. To strong

Did not Dante get defeated at some point during DMC1?

And in DMC3 he was taken down by a katana by his brother by just being stabbed?

There is a respect thread.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=476393

Etrigan is very underrated on this board.

Etrigan can also send Dante back through time:

http://i36.tinypic.com/24wubky.jpg
http://i37.tinypic.com/2gufeko.jpg

BFR him to another dimension:

http://i34.tinypic.com/2uzwah0.jpg

Steal his soul:

http://i38.tinypic.com/xfdjet.jpg

Use illusions on him:

http://i36.tinypic.com/6nunn6.jpg

Blind him with light:

http://i35.tinypic.com/2ag6835.jpg

Steal his power:

http://i34.tinypic.com/11ajzo0.jpg

Summon other demons to help him:

http://i38.tinypic.com/21eanna.jpg

And lots of other things too

Etrigan was a Blood, and fought against Crips in Hell?

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/sisko_facepalm.gif

Originally posted by Existere
Nobody (at the moment) is arguing that punching a standing-still speedster is a clear demonstration of super-speed.

However, tagging Superman mid-flight clearly is:

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/owned/ActionComics762p10.jpg

Unless we're assuming that Superman was asinine enough to fly extremely slowly towards Etrigan, and then proceed to get punched to the moon.

So I'm gonna go ahead and venture that if he can do that, he can tag Dante.

On a side note, if Dante doesn't see his hellfire coming, and given that Etrigan's hellfire has vanquished demons with ease before, and given Superman issues, what's the argument that it won't affect Dante?

That doesn't provide any proof of superspeed on Etrigan's part, btw. The distance isn't displayed. He could have been travelling around the speed of a fastball pitch for all we know.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Etrigan was a Blood, and fought against Crips in Hell?

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/sisko_facepalm.gif
Well it is Hell after all.

Originally posted by illadelph12
That doesn't provide any proof of superspeed on Etrigan's part, btw. The distance isn't displayed. He could have been travelling around the speed of a fastball pitch for all we know. Fair enough.

For context, he was this far:

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/owned/ActionComics762p09.jpg

Which is a decent enough length for the attack to constitute a bull rush.

The fact that he managed to catch Superman off guard with a rather powerful attack, with enough of a swing to knock him to the moon, with Superman clearly both battle-aware and in motion, all eliminate the situational factors usually accompanying a 'brick manages to hit a speedster so he must be fast!' scenario.

So I feel comfortable asserting that he has super-speed of some level, though that is a rather large term, so we don't yet know to what extent this holds true.

Originally posted by Existere
Fair enough.

For context, he was this far:

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/owned/ActionComics762p09.jpg

Which is a decent enough length for the attack to constitute a bull rush.

The fact that he managed to catch Superman off guard with a rather powerful attack, with enough of a swing to knock him to the moon, with Superman clearly both battle-aware and in motion, all eliminate the situational factors usually accompanying a 'brick manages to hit a speedster so he must be fast!' scenario.

So I feel comfortable asserting that he has super-speed of some level, though that is a rather large term, so we don't yet know to what extent this holds true.

Superman couldn't react to something that regular humans reacted to. Impressive.

Originally posted by illadelph12
That doesn't provide any proof of superspeed on Etrigan's part, btw. The distance isn't displayed. He could have been travelling around the speed of a fastball pitch for all we know.

smh...

P20NR6cf4-0

That's a class hundred level feat.

Would depend on what kind of stone it's made of, if it's made of stone. I dunno, I tried to forget that game.

Plus I could swear Savior was hollow on his arm.

Originally posted by Existere
Fair enough.

For context, he was this far:

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/owned/ActionComics762p09.jpg

Which is a decent enough length for the attack to constitute a bull rush.

The fact that he managed to catch Superman off guard with a rather powerful attack, with enough of a swing to knock him to the moon, with Superman clearly both battle-aware and in motion, all eliminate the situational factors usually accompanying a 'brick manages to hit a speedster so he must be fast!' scenario.

So I feel comfortable asserting that he has super-speed of some level, though that is a rather large term, so we don't yet know to what extent this holds true.

I disagree. There's still no evidence that Supes was going, say, 90 mph+ in his flight, particularly considering that Etrigan was able to bust a rhyme in the span of time it took Supes to reach him, and Superman's been caught off guard by numerous attacks, which means there's no evidence of super-speed on Etrigan's part in this instance. All we know for certain is that Etrigan is strong enough to punch someone around Superman's size and weight into space.

Originally posted by illadelph12
particularly considering that Etrigan was able to bust a rhyme in the span of time it took Supes to reach him
http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/badcomic2.jpg

I'm not saying that your argument is totally baseless, but we're talking about comics here.

In the pic above the guy would either have to be speaking about twenty words a second or moving at an ungodly slow rate.

Hang time.

edit*

Also, given the first dialogue bubble, there's apparently some lost context in that scan. She thinks "Oh no, I'm right back where I started" as dude is mid-air having lept some un-defined distance.

Also, there's no telling what other factors there are. Is it a magical realm? Another planet with altered gravity? Is in he an upward arc of his jump or free fall? Etc.

I would assume if nothing is mentioned about different gravity or magic affecting movement we go with Earth's standards.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Hang time.

edit*

Also, given the first dialogue bubble, there's apparently some lost context in that scan. She thinks "Oh no, I'm right back where I started" as dude is mid-air having lept some un-defined distance.

Also, there's no telling what other factors there are. Is it a magical realm? Another planet with altered gravity? Is in he an upward arc of his jump or free fall? Etc.


You're really reaching there aren't you delph?

Originally posted by Creshosk
You're really reaching there aren't you delph?
I don't think he's being serious. At least I hope he isn't.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I don't think he's being serious. At least I hope he isn't. My guess is the tongue means he's not.

Originally posted by Existere
Nobody (at the moment) is arguing that punching a standing-still speedster is a clear demonstration of super-speed.

However, tagging Superman mid-flight clearly is:

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/owned/ActionComics762p10.jpg

Unless we're assuming that Superman was asinine enough to fly extremely slowly towards Etrigan, and then proceed to get punched to the moon.

So I'm gonna go ahead and venture that if he can do that, he can tag Dante.

On a side note, if Dante doesn't see his hellfire coming, and given that Etrigan's hellfire has vanquished demons with ease before, and given Superman issues, what's the argument that it won't affect Dante?

This isnt a speed feat.

Both Etrigan and Superman were able to complete a sentence before Superman actually got close to him.

They were either talking at super speed... or Superman wasnt flying that fast to Etrigan at all.

Can you prove that Superman was using some type of speed during that attack?

Originally posted by carver9
This isnt a speed feat.

Both Etrigan and Superman were able to complete a sentence before Superman actually got close to him.

They were either talking at super speed... or Superman wasnt flying that fast to Etrigan at all.

Can you prove that Superman was using some type of speed during that attack? This argument has already been debunked. read the thread.

Originally posted by Creshosk
This argument has already been debunked. read the thread.


I read it and I couldnt find anyone debunking it. Your arguments are moot unless again, PROVE that Superman was moving fast during that flight span because from what I am seeing, Superman is flying to him talking and Etrigan had enough time to complete a sentence.

That isnt fast at all.

Originally posted by carver9
I read it and I couldnt find anyone debunking it. Your arguments are moot unless again, PROVE that Superman was moving fast during that flight span because from what I am seeing, Superman is flying to him talking and Etrigan had enough time to complete a sentence.

That isnt fast at all.

...This has to be one of the silliest stances I've ever seen.

Originally posted by XanatosForever
...This has to be one of the silliest stances I've ever seen. Well it is carver. He likes to downplay Superman and then deny it.

Alot of the time he'll defend with a "backhanded compliment" or something.

Originally posted by XanatosForever
...This has to be one of the silliest stances I've ever seen.

Not silliest, you all are really nitpicking right now trying to find a speed feat for Etrigan. The proof is on you all, prove that Superman was moving at tremendous speed during his blitz or leave it alone.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Well it is carver. He likes to downplay Superman and then deny it.

Alot of the time he'll defend with a "backhanded compliment" or something.

This has nothing to do with Superman, this has something to do with you proving that Superman was moving at any type of speed during that fight.

Again, how am I downplaying Superman when again I said he can beat ANY GL, Current Thor for a majority, Black Adam, hell, almost anyone that he is pitted against I tend to give him a majority (except a couple). I dont downplay him but I also dont consider him godly like a lot of you all do and use the "since Batman has tagged Superman, he has super speed" as a debate that Batman has fast reflexes.

Originally posted by carver9
Not silliest, you all are really nitpicking right now trying to find a speed feat for Etrigan. The proof is on you all, prove that Superman was moving at tremendous speed during his blitz or leave it alone. No, you're the one nitpicking. your argument has already been debunked. It doesn't matter if you think it hasn't, its already been addressed.

Originally posted by carver9
*superman hate* Thanks for proving my point.