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Who wins?

Thanos with IG

If this was Thanos (CCU) you might have a match.

Originally posted by Cubey
If this was Thanos (CCU) you might have a match. Why?I mean soulfire DS made the source his *****.Thats pretty impressive.

Darksied based on the Source feat.

sooooo.... DC abstracts>Marvel abstracts?

Depends on the abstracts.

Eternity=source IMO

Why is that? I thought the Source was a bit above Eternity.

Originally posted by amnesia
Eternity=source IMO
Your opinion is wrong

I Dc doesnt have exactly analogs to marvel cosmics except imperiex and galactus

Darkseid should of been as powerful as merged Spectre.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Why?I mean soulfire DS made the source his *****.Thats pretty impressive.

Bitching Eternity, Galactus, Love, Hate, Cronus, etc etc > Bitching Source.

With CCU Thabos, you only have him rivaling Eternity, so that's something Darkseid might be able to compete with.

Eternity isn't equal to the Source. He's/it's significantly below the Source. The Source is equivalent to the mind of the TOAA or the active aspect of the TOAA.

Originally posted by Allankles
Eternity isn't equal to the Source. He's/it's significantly below the Source. The Source is equivalent to the mind of the TOAA or the active aspect of the TOAA.

The Source is the "source" from which the universe/multiverse was birthed in DC lore. In Marvel, Eternity represents the universe/multiverse. Seems about the same level to me.

Originally posted by Cubey
The Source is the "source" from which the universe/multiverse was birthed in DC lore. In Marvel, Eternity represents the universe/multiverse. Seems about the same level to me.

Not really. The Source would be like the mind of the TOAA, the ultimate medium from which all existence is formed. The Source is the ultimate concept where all ideas, all concepts come from, it is The Overvoid, The Presence, God.

No idea or concept is seperate from the Source - energy, powers, reality itself are nothing without it in DC.

Eternity isn't the fountain of all things in Marvel, case in point Alien Entity (infinity gems), LT (a being above Eternity) et al

I generally don't acknowledge SF DS because the amount of power he had should have made him omnipotent and unbeatable no matter the circumstances. It would be about as futile to take on the One Above All in Marvel and yet he still lost. I'd have to say that the entire story arc of stealing the souls of the gods was major PIS as well as stealing it from the source/.

Originally posted by Allankles
Not really. The Source would be like the mind of the TOAA, the ultimate medium from which all existence is formed. The Source is the ultimate concept where all ideas, all concepts come from, The Overvoid, The Presence, God.

No idea or concept is seperate from the Source - energy, powers, reality itself are nothing without it in DC.

Eternity isn't the fountain of all things in Marvel, case in point Alien Entity, LT (a being above Eternity) et al

Um what? The Source is not ≥ The Presence or the Overvoid if that's what you're implying.

Eternity isn't the fountain of all things in Marvel, but Source isn't the fountain of everything in DC either. Technically the Overvoid is and the Presence is the creator of the multiverse. And Michael/Lucifer created their own multiverse that was born after casually breaching the Source Wall.

Originally posted by Cubey
Um what? The Source is not ≥ The Presence or the Overvoid if that's what you're implying.

Eternity isn't the fountain of all things in Marvel, but Source isn't the fountain of everything in DC either. Technically the Overvoid is and the Presence is the creator of the multiverse. And Michael/Lucifer created their own multiverse that was born after casually breaching the Source Wall.

The Source has always been reckoned as an aspect of God/The Presence in DC. In the current and more clear cosmology the Primal Monitor is supreme as he or his mind is the metaphorical blank canvas on which all the infinite ideas and potential ideas of the DC are housed.

The Monitors themselves are like his angels and are also finite sapient unique parts of him. The Overvoid which is the infinite unknowable mind of the Primal Monitor is also called the Source/God as per FC.

Marvel's cosmology and Eternities place in that cosmology are not anlagous to DC's cosmology or the Source's position in it. The Source is also called the ultimate concept, the fountain from which all ideas and concepts come from, the medium of all existence within the DCU as it is the Overvoid, the active mind of the Primal Monitor.

The Source is not the Overvoid. We saw the *true* Source (that would be Source+ALE) in DotNG, as well as DC One Million, and he's far different from the Primal Monitor/Overvoid.

Hell, both Michael and Lucifer are above the Source, shown when they casually breached the Wall and created their own multiverse.

The Source might not be a direct analogue to Multi-Eternity but gets pretty close.

^ How would that be a threat to batman?

Nothing is a threat to Bat God.

Originally posted by Cubey
The Source is not the Overvoid. We saw the *true* Source (that would be Source+ALE) in DotNG, as well as DC One Million, and he's far different from the Primal Monitor/Overvoid.

Hell, both Michael and Lucifer are above the Source, shown when they casually breached the Wall and created their own multiverse.

The Source might not be a direct analogue to Multi-Eternity but gets pretty close.

This is current cosmology post FC. The Source/God/Overvoid are one and the same, it is the mind of the Primal Monitor which houses all existence i.e. the multiverse (orrery of worlds), monitor world, heaven (all of them, 4th world, judeo chrisitian heaven) and the infinite unknown that surrounds it all.

There is such a thing as retconing. Besides it has brought welcome clarity to the cosmology, don't you think? It doesn't take away from the Judeo Chrisitian angels (who now appear to be no greater than the Monitors who are also, & precisely angels of the Primal Monitor).

You should check out the FC spinoff on Libra for info on the Source. Also check out Morrison's interviews on FC all the info is there.

Will do.

Still though, I think Thanos showed greater feats so I still think he wins (because you have to remember the Source that Darkseid fought was pre-FC).

But you did raise my opinion of Darkseid/Source

Double post.

I'd see the source as being above eternity.Not LT level or IG level though.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Darksied based on the Source feat. What was so impressive about it ? Seriously?Originally posted by Allankles
Eternity isn't equal to the Source. He's/it's significantly below the Source. The Source is equivalent to the mind of the TOAA or the active aspect of the TOAA. False.

Originally posted by quanchi112
What was so impressive about it ? Seriously? False. He made the source his *****?

Originally posted by Black bolt z
He made the source his *****? That the Source easily countered with Superman interfering. Source proved despite the onesided massive prep he still outplayed Darkseid in the end.

Originally posted by Allankles
This is current cosmology post FC. The Source/God/Overvoid are one and the same, it is the mind of the Primal Monitor which houses all existence i.e. the multiverse (orrery of worlds), monitor world, heaven (all of them, 4th world, judeo chrisitian heaven) and the infinite unknown that surrounds it all.

There is such a thing as retconing. Besides it has brought welcome clarity to the cosmology, don't you think? It doesn't take away from the Judeo Chrisitian angels (who now appear to be no greater than the Monitors who are also, & precisely angels of the Primal Monitor).

You should check out the FC spinoff on Libra for info on the Source. Also check out Morrison's interviews on FC all the info is there.



Also Cubey, Lucifer or Michael never breached the Source Wall, he merely went to the wall and stood on a Promethean Giants shoulder who was stuck on it and looked back and Lucifer could see everything in creation.

bump

Originally posted by Cubey
The Source is the "source" from which the universe/multiverse was birthed in DC lore. In Marvel, Eternity represents the universe/multiverse. Seems about the same level to me.

Eternity is the aspect of the chronal axis and represents all that is along it. He is not the equivalent of the Source.

The Source was said to be DC's Big Bang, the Source of all life, energy and matter within DC. That is not what Eternity is in Marvel.

A more fitting equivalent would be Marvels sentient Big Bang, the Phoenix Force, which is the sum and substance of all that lives, the power source behind the stars by canon.

In support of this, in the DC/Marvel Titans/Uncanny X-men crossover, Dark Phoenix, the dark manifestation of the Phoenix Force was reconstituted from memories the X-men had of Jean Grey and a portion of the Source.

Originally posted by amnesia
^ How would that be a threat to batman?

Love it.

Originally posted by Allankles
Eternity isn't equal to the Source. He's/it's significantly below the Source. The Source is equivalent to the mind of the TOAA or the active aspect of the TOAA.

Sometimes I honestly wonder about you Allan... The source is = to the TOAA mind or active aspect.. WTF are you basing this one. That is just ludicris.. The source battle feats are honestly a joke just like Eternity. They are pretty much exactly the same in power level and importance.

Personally I have trouble calling Starlin's Source and Kirby's Source the same entity.

i think soulfire darkseid wins

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Personally I have trouble calling Starlin's Source and Kirby's Source the same entity.

Eternity could give the source a good fight on his own. But he would lose. The IG is just like another Eternity right? When Thanos had the IG, he simply replaced Eternity. So, like the IG is a better Eternity right? The Source is like a better Eternity. I"d say the Source and the IG are pretty even. But Soulfire DS was more powerful than the Source. So Soulfire DS would be greater than the Source and Eternity.

Originally posted by Oak Parker
Eternity could give the source a good fight on his own. But he would lose. The IG is just like another Eternity right? When Thanos had the IG, he simply replaced Eternity. So, like the IG is a better Eternity right? The Source is like a better Eternity. I"d say the Source and the IG are pretty even. But Soulfire DS was more powerful than the Source. So Soulfire DS would be greater than the Source and Eternity. Thanos with IG was able to stomp eternity...

Originally posted by MrMind
i think soulfire darkseid wins How ?

Originally posted by Allankles
No idea or concept is seperate from the Source - energy, powers, reality itself are nothing without it in DC. The Shade is just fine without it.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Eternity is the aspect of the chronal axis and represents all that is along it. He is not the equivalent of the Source.

The Source was said to be DC's Big Bang, the Source of all life, energy and matter within DC. That is not what Eternity is in Marvel.

A more fitting equivalent would be Marvels sentient Big Bang, the Phoenix Force, which is the sum and substance of all that lives, the power source behind the stars by canon.

In support of this, in the DC/Marvel Titans/Uncanny X-men crossover, Dark Phoenix, the dark manifestation of the Phoenix Force was reconstituted from memories the X-men had of Jean Grey and a portion of the Source. And the more fitting equivalent of the Phoenix Force would be the Firestorm Matrix. Also this: Originally posted by Omega Vision
Personally I have trouble calling Starlin's Source and Kirby's Source the same entity.

Also there is a faulty logic in having creators being more than what they create.

In the end the only thing that matters is whether Spider-man is faster than Wolverine or not.

Originally posted by Bentley
Also there is a faulty logic in having creators being more than what they create.

In the end the only thing that matters is whether Spider-man is faster than Wolverine or not.
LOL

Originally posted by Bentley
Also there is a faulty logic in having creators being more than what they create.

In the end the only thing that matters is whether Spider-man is faster than Wolverine or not. I made a thread on that way back when... I think most people know better.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=443877

It got closed though.

Thanos with ease.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Thanos with ease. Explain.

very simple really... DS had to prep against the source to even have a chance and in the end lost anyways. Thanos has no prep against various abstracts after abstracts and punked them easily. That is the key difference to me when it comes to power levels.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Explain. Thanos' powers, abilities, and mastery of the ig really make this very clear. Ds retreated against Orion he only temporarily bested the Source through careful onesided prep and one interruption by Superman he lost his advantage. Thanos would maul him.

The source, which powers everything, was the source that allowed DS to combine souls to give him greater power than the Source. The Source is easily a match for the IG. DS was more powerful than the Source.

Originally posted by Oak Parker
The source, which powers everything, was the source that allowed DS to combine souls to give him greater power than the Source. The Source is easily a match for the IG. DS was more powerful than the Source. The source doesn't power everything in fact during genesis the source's power was described as less than infinite so by direct comparison it fails to match the power of the power gem alone.


Ds wasn't more powerful than the Source either. I think Thanos would beat the two of them combined with ease. Nothing in this showed me anything impressive compared to what Thanos showed along with his sheer abilities.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The source doesn't power everything in fact during genesis the source's power was described as less than infinite so by direct comparison it fails to match the power of the power gem alone.


Ds wasn't more powerful than the Source either. I think Thanos would beat the two of them combined with ease. Nothing in this showed me anything impressive compared to what Thanos showed along with his sheer abilities. Thanos wasn't multiversal with the IG. The source is at least that. And he was combined with the ALE, which was multiversal as well.

Originally posted by Oak Parker
Thanos wasn't multiversal with the IG. The source is at least that. And he was combined with the ALE, which was multiversal as well. Being multiversal or universal in power means nothing. That's like saying Odin can beat the ig because his blasts have effected the multiverse. Ig wins as it's powers work in this fight.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Being multiversal or universal in power means nothing. That's like saying Odin can beat the ig because his blasts have effected the multiverse. Ig wins as it's powers work in this fight. Effecting the multiverse means nothing. Killing DS effected the multiverse. Doesn't mean nothing. The source was more powerful than the IG. And that was before it merged with the ALE.

Originally posted by Oak Parker
Effecting the multiverse means nothing. Killing DS effected the multiverse. Doesn't mean nothing. The source was more powerful than the IG. And that was before it merged with the ALE. How was it more powerful than the ig ? What did the Source do in this arc which confirms it iyo ?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
very simple really... DS had to prep against the source to even have a chance and in the end lost anyways. Thanos has no prep against various abstracts after abstracts and punked them easily. That is the key difference to me when it comes to power levels. DS prepping to get the power would be the equivilant of thanos prepping to get the gauntlet.Originally posted by quanchi112
The source doesn't power everything in fact during genesis the source's power was described as less than infinite so by direct comparison it fails to match the power of the power gem alone.


Ds wasn't more powerful than the Source either. I think Thanos would beat the two of them combined with ease. Nothing in this showed me anything impressive compared to what Thanos showed along with his sheer abilities.

DS was very very clearly above the source.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
DS prepping to get the power would be the equivilant of thanos prepping to get the gauntlet.

DS was very very clearly above the source. Not. At. All. He prepped for the Source and was never above him whatsoever.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Not. At. All. He prepped for the Source and was never above him whatsoever. No he didn't.He prepped to get his powers is what you are referring to correct?

Originally posted by Black bolt z
No he didn't.He prepped to get his powers is what you are referring to correct? He prepped for the Source and this exact moment.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He prepped for the Source and this exact moment. If you considering getting the SF prepping then you also consider thanos getting the IG "prepping".

So that makes him beating any of the abstracts prepping against them.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
If you considering getting the SF prepping then you also consider thanos getting the IG "prepping".

So that makes him beating any of the abstracts prepping against them. No, Darkseid knew and prepared to face off against the Source whereas Thanos just stomped a mudhole into everyone gathered against him.

Ds didn't defeat the Source either the Source won.

DS gaining the power through prep has as much bearing on the outcome of this match and the power of SF DS as does the fact that Thanos had to go on a Gem hunt to create the IG.

By the same logic Thanos needed prep to accomplish what he did in the IG saga.

Soulfire Darkseid refers to the Darkseid we see after his prep is accomplished and he's been empowered by the souls of the dead New Gods. Just as IG Thanos refers to Thanos after his gem hunt is completed and he's gathered the six gems together.

This is really simple Quan. Even for you.

Only problem is Omega... he was prepping to fight the Source for awhile.. that is why he was going after what he was. Thanos wasn't prepping for Eternity nor any of the abstracts that came to fight him.. that is the difference.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Only problem is Omega... he was prepping to fight the Source for awhile.. that is why he was going after what he was. Thanos wasn't prepping for Eternity nor any of the abstracts that came to fight him.. that is the difference.
And you seem to miss the point.

Prep is not a factor here, SF DS is a version of DS who has already absorbed the power of the New God souls.

The fact that DS had to prep to attain this power beforehand is as much an issue in this fight as is the fact that Thanos had to go on a Scavenger Hunt to get the gems.

DS's prep gave him the power to overpower the Source, we're talking about DS when he had that Source+ power.

When we talk about IG Thanos do we ask whether Thanos has the time to go on a scavenger hunt to get the gems? No of course not because IG Thanos already has the gems just as SF DS already has the power of the New God souls.

did you read my post.. TRY AGAIN.... I'm not talking about the prep to attain the items.. I'm talking about DS was obtaining that stuff to fight the Source.. not the prep to get the power.. he was doing so to fight the source and clearly.. if you're getting that to fight the source.. you think that is ALL one would do.. come on.. He knew what he was up against and had a plan to take him down. Thanos had NO PLAN nor KNEW who he would be fighting... see a difference...

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
did you read my post.. TRY AGAIN.... I'm not talking about the prep to attain the items.. I'm talking about DS was obtaining that stuff to fight the Source.. not the prep to get the power.. he was doing so to fight the source and clearly.. if you're getting that to fight the source.. you think that is ALL one would do.. come on.. He knew what he was up against and had a plan to take him down. Thanos had NO PLAN nor KNEW who he would be fighting... see a difference...
I really don't see how that matters to the debate between SF DS and IG Thanos.

You seem to suggest that DS specifically prepped for the Source's weaknesses, when his plan essentially came out to him attaining enough power to overpower the Source plain and simple.

Which is more or less what Thanos did with Eternity. He got power that made him > to Eternity.

Again this is irrelevant to who wins in this fight.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I really don't see how that matters to the debate between SF DS and IG Thanos.

You seem to suggest that DS specifically prepped for the Source's weaknesses, when his plan essentially came out to him attaining enough power to overpower the Source plain and simple.

Which is more or less what Thanos did with Eternity. He got power that made him > to Eternity.

Again this is irrelevant to who wins in this fight.

I kinda agree it's irrelevant to the fight.. I'm just pointing out the one person prepped to fight one and the other didn't. To me at least, when someone doesn't prep to beat someone and does is more impressive than someone knowing who he is going to fight and has prepped to do so.

darkseid with soul fire triumph the source. the source > any opponents thanos fight with ig, including galactus, eternity etc.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I kinda agree it's irrelevant to the fight.. I'm just pointing out the one person prepped to fight one and the other didn't. To me at least, when someone doesn't prep to beat someone and does is more impressive than someone knowing who he is going to fight and has prepped to do so.
But DS's prep would have granted him the same power whether he was prepping to fight the Source or whether he was prepping to fight Eternity, Superman, the Spectre, or Squirrel Girl. The results of harvesting the New God souls don't change dependent on the opponent. He still gets the same power.

Thanos prepped as well, he might not have specifically prepped to fight Eternity, but to act like his victory over Eternity was any less a testament to his prep (in this case collecting the gems) than DS's over the Source was to his absorbing the Souls of the New Gods is just silly.

DS couldn't have beaten the Source without the New God souls just as Thanos couldn't have beaten Eternity without the gems which he went to great pains in collecting.

This is still irrelevant to the question of who wins between SF DS and IG Thanos.

^

I think hes saying that DS prepped specifically for the source while thanos prepped to just plain get the power.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
^

I think hes saying that DS prepped specifically for the source while thanos prepped to just plain get the power.

Thanos prep actually involved prep to beat the abstracts. He knew he would have to face them. That was all part of his plan. To take Eternity's place. Come on now. Plus facing the merged Source/ALE is an altogether different beast then facing Eternity.

Originally posted by Oak Parker
Thanos prep actually involved prep to beat the abstracts. He knew he would have to face them. That was all part of his plan. To take Eternity's place. Come on now. Plus facing the merged Source/ALE is an altogether different beast then facing Eternity. He would be above him but I wouldn't say dramatically above him.He'd be to eternity probably what a regular no name celestial would be a well fed galactus.It won't be a stomp but yeah hes a good league above him.