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Rock Lee from Naruto

Vs

Karate Kid (Val Armorr) from Legion of Superheroes.

They fight in a WalMart parking lot.

Scenario One: Pre-Crisis Karate Kid

Scenario Two: Post Zero-Hour Karate Kid

Scenario Three: Current Karate Kid

Isn't karate kid just a flying martial artist?

I'm giving this to rock lee... he is faster, stronger, more durable, and is just as good of a fight as Karate Kid.

Rock Lee 6 or 7/10

Originally posted by amnesia
Isn't karate kid just a flying martial artist?
That's really selling him short. Probably KK's weakest version (Post Crisis KK who was suffering from amnesia, groggy from just waking up, and sick from a virus) fought Batman and was getting the better of him when Black Lightning cheap-shotted him. The strongest version of Karate Kid fought a PC Kryptonian and held his own.

So he do have superhuman attributes?

Rock Lee. KK beats/hangs in there with meta's with no martial arts skill and martial artist's who aren't meta... he's not beating owning a meta with high end MA skill.

Originally posted by marwash22
Rock Lee. KK beats/hangs in there with meta's with no martial arts skill and martial artist's who aren't meta... he's not beating owning a meta with high end MA skill.

show some feats of rock lee...

Originally posted by marwash22
Rock Lee. KK beats/hangs in there with meta's with no martial arts skill and martial artist's who aren't meta... he's not beating owning a meta with high end MA skill.
So low level meta stats+martial arts skill is more dangerous in your eyes than planet busting strength and FTL speed? Because PC KK fought guys with that kind of power.

Also note that all versions of Karate Kid have legion flight rings. Flight>jumping on tree branches

Show me some feats of Karate Kid, seriously, how can a guy with MA skills spare against a PC Kryptonian? No human could last a second against superman, no matter how much martial arts training you've got.

Originally posted by amnesia
Show me some feats of Karate Kid, seriously, how can a guy with MA skills spare against a PC Kryptonian? No human could last a second against superman, no matter how much martial arts training you've got.
How could a supposed human like Classic Kingpin manhandle a Class 10 brick with superhuman speed and agilty like Spider-Man?

Comic book humans are capable of way more than IRL humans as a rule.

Major PIS IMO. (Actually not biased in this, I'm not a narutrad)

He either have superhuman stats or he doesn't.

Anyway, off to bed. Continue tomorrow.

Originally posted by amnesia
Major PIS IMO. (Actually not biased in this, I'm not a narutrad)

He either have superhuman stats or he doesn't.

Anyway, off to bed. Continue tomorrow.
It'd be PIS if Karate Kid wasn't doing it on a consistent basis.

Like with Classic Kingpin it's unexplained superpowers. IIRC Karate Kid was once said to have the power of "Super-Karate".

I'm pretty sure Rock Lee is in the same boat, he's a guy who sucked at Ninjutsu so he compensated by training his body and skills so that he became the Naruto-verse's resident Badass-Not-So-Normal. Or does he do some kind of Chi (Chakra in this case) amping like Iron Fist?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
So low level meta stats+martial arts skill is more dangerous in your eyes than planet busting strength and FTL speed? Because PC KK fought guys with that kind of power. that's not what i said at all.

KK fought those guys 'cause he used his MA skill to parlay their attacks. I don't care how great your physical advatages are when your opponent is >>>>>>>> the fighter you are. PC Kryptonian flying at him with the intent to use a simple punch is shit compared to a someone speeding at you who actually knows how to fight.

Originally posted by marwash22
that's not what i said at all.

KK fought those guys 'cause he used his MA skill to parlay their attacks. I don't care how great your physical advatages are when your opponent is >>>>>>>> the fighter you are. PC Kryptonian flying at him with the intent to use a simple punch is shit compared to a someone speeding at you who actually knows how to fight.
So to reiterate you do think that fighting skill is more of a threat than planet busting strength and FTL speed?

Because I know you're not trying to imply that Rock Lee has physical stats that even come close to a PC Kryptonian. So you must be saying that his skill makes him more dangerous.

He isnt beating Rock Lee, no matter WHO he has fought. I'm pretty sure if you put Rock Lee in the DC and Marvel universe, he would have similar, hell, probably better feats. Everyone has the feats that you have mentioned under their belts... look at Cap.. He has fought Thor and had a good showing, Hulk, Thunder strike, Wonderman, skrulls powered with marvels best, and the list goes on but Rock Lee would DESTROY Cap.

Using feats, Rock Lee>>KK. He has good showings against Kryptonians but he also have regular showings against people in his tier like Batman, etc...

Originally posted by Omega Vision
So to reiterate you do think that fighting skill is more of a threat than planet busting strength and FTL speed?

Because I know you're not trying to imply that Rock Lee has physical stats that even come close to a PC Kryptonian. So you must be saying that his skill makes him more dangerous. Rock Lee is way more dangerous IN A FIGHT AGAINST KK, than ANY Kryptonian who chooses to go h2h with him.

Originally posted by carver9
He isnt beating Rock Lee, no matter WHO he has fought. I'm pretty sure if you put Rock Lee in the DC and Marvel universe, he would have similar, hell, probably better feats. Everyone has the feats that you have mentioned under their belts... look at Cap.. He has fought Thor and had a good showing, Hulk, Thunder strike, Wonderman, skrulls powered with marvels best, and the list goes on but Rock Lee would DESTROY Cap.

Using feats, Rock Lee>>KK. He has good showings against Kryptonians but he also have regular showings against people in his tier like Batman, etc...
None of the people you listed are in any way interchangeable or comparable with PC Superboy.

Originally posted by marwash22
Rock Lee is way more dangerous IN A FIGHT AGAINST KK, than ANY Kryptonian who chooses to go h2h with him.
Really? Imagine fighting someone a million times stronger and faster than you. That's KK's experience fighting PC Superboy.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
So to reiterate you do think that fighting skill is more of a threat than planet busting strength and FTL speed?

Because I know you're not trying to imply that Rock Lee has physical stats that even come close to a PC Kryptonian. So you must be saying that his skill makes him more dangerous.

Show us a PC Kryptonian flying at KK at the speed of light. PC has fought NUMEROUS of people, slow people at that and you cant use ALL of their battles as them flying at high speeds when 7 times out of 10, they rarely if ever used speed during combat.

Show us them battling KK at light speed and prove that it was light speed combat.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
None of the people you listed are in any way interchangeable or comparable with PC Superboy.


Really? Imagine fighting someone a million times stronger and faster than you. That's KK's experience fighting PC Superboy.

You dont get what I am telling you.

All of those people are>>>>Cap, hell, most of them are Heralds and Cap has either OWNED them or stood his ground. With that said, no matter what Cap has done against people out of his tier, Rock Lee would crush him because physically, Rock Lee>>>>>>Captain America.

I've always figured Naruto is in the same boat as DBZ. Sure, they're fast, but it's pretty impossible to say how fast. The best I've seen out of Rock Lee was his Chakra gates against Gaara, which only lasted a short while and put him at serious risk. He probably showed more skill against the bone guy, but speed has to go to him against Gaara.

Haven't seen him in Shippuden pretty much at all, but haven't seen all of it. I think I quit watching around the time the guy made the house out of wood.

I'm gonna power scale and say that the Rock Lee against Gaara was < Kakashi who, if I recall, has a best feat of cutting a lightning bolt in half. So, if KK fought a Kryptonian, he's on a completely different level than the Rock Lee I am familiar with.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
I've always figured Naruto is in the same boat as DBZ. Sure, they're fast, but it's pretty impossible to say how fast. The best I've seen out of Rock Lee was his Chakra gates against Gaara, which only lasted a short while and put him at serious risk. He probably showed more skill against the bone guy, but speed has to go to him against Gaara.

Haven't seen him in Shippuden pretty much at all, but haven't seen all of it. I think I quit watching around the time the guy made the house out of wood.

I'm gonna power scale and say that the Rock Lee against Gaara was < Kakashi who, if I recall, has a best feat of cutting a lightning bolt in half. So, if KK fought a Kryptonian, he's on a completely different level than the Rock Lee I am familiar with.

So with this said since Cap has fought Thor, Thunderstrike, Hulk, do you also consider him above Rock Lee?

Possibly. He DOES have bullet time feats.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Possibly. He DOES have bullet time feats.

LOL... WOW MooCow... just wow.

Either "WOW" is an acronym I am not familiar with or you just failed to actually prove me wrong.

Of course that doesn't matter. Cap vs Lee is irrelevant to the topic at hand.

Rock Lee has super sonic speed, class 10 in strength and he's a top tier MA.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Either "WOW" is an acronym I am not familiar with or you just failed to actually prove me wrong.

Of course that doesn't matter. Cap vs Lee is irrelevant to the topic at hand.

So you dont think Rock Lee can slap bullets out of the air?



You dont think Rock Lee if physically more faster than your average street level characters?

MooCow... do you not like anime characters?

As far as I know, there is nothing to suggest that he can.

I actually did think that, but do I think he's faster than a bullet? As far as I know, nothing suggested he was.

Ah, so I don't think anime characters are as good as you do, so I must not like them all together? You're wrong, sir. Rock Lee is probably my favorite Naruto character now.

If what Marwash says is true, then cool. Is that good enough to hang with the best KK then? Still, I doubt it.

I'm not familiar enough with Rock Lee to decide on a clear winner, but are we using PC KK or the 3Boot version, or some kinda composite? PC KK could likely win, though likely not in a complete stomp, because, yes, though seeming like PIS, he performed insance feats as shattering unbreakable emeralds with precision strikes, shattering diamond holding chambers while near death, and other comparable feats on a regular basis on panel, plus he had reflexes capable of dealing with objects travelling at C (and I'm not just talking about the bullcharging Mon El). He also adapted techniques to utilize his Legion Flight Ring that give him increased speed and range (the rings are capable of interstellar flight speeds, and he'd use those in short bursts to amplify his striking velocity). The most recent KK may or may not be the same guy. I'm not entirely clear on the LOS Post Crisis status. I'm not familiar enough with Rock Lee to arbitrarily say KK beats him.

Originally posted by marwash22
Rock Lee is way more dangerous IN A FIGHT AGAINST KK, than ANY Kryptonian who chooses to go h2h with him. '


Guess you never heard of Black Dragon? An expert martial artist that trained under the same master. Val punked his ass easily.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
I've always figured Naruto is in the same boat as DBZ. Sure, they're fast, but it's pretty impossible to say how fast. The best I've seen out of Rock Lee was his Chakra gates against Gaara, which only lasted a short while and put him at serious risk. He probably showed more skill against the bone guy, but speed has to go to him against Gaara.

With his gates open, Lee did seem to be making sonic boom shockwaves.

Best-guess, if you ask me at least, is the fastest Naruto characters like Kakashi and Gai and most S-class ninja are a bit sub-sonic using their normal speed techniques (body flicker mostly, that move where they briefly disappear. Or at least so it's shown if the other side isn't fast enough to follow), but people with specific speed techniques like the gates can go beyond that.

I've seen a calculation that puts their long distance travel speed (no body flicker, no nothing) at 60mph based on one of the trips some characters did on foot.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
'


Guess you never heard of Black Dragon? An expert martial artist that trained under the same master. Val punked his ass easily. Originally posted by marwash22
Rock Lee has super sonic speed, class 10 in strength and he's a top tier MA.

I don't recall sonic booms, but I do recall little shock waves from redirecting Gaara's body in the air.

Originally posted by amnesia
So he do have superhuman attributes?

Kind of.

Basically, he can dish it out, and take it, from a character on Supermans level. He can keep up with the fastest speedsters. He can even physically restrain Superboy in an unbreakable armlock and strangle hold. Not only that, he spun him around like a top at super speed, actually knocking him out.

But he's completely human. It's all done through futuristic space martial arts.

Don't even try and think about how it works.

Originally posted by marwash22
Rock Lee. KK beats/hangs in there with meta's with no martial arts skill and martial artist's who aren't meta... he's not beating owning a meta with high end MA skill.

It happens. Even the allmighty Batman has times when he's struggling with a character he should be able to beat in five seconds.

Karate Kid does suffer from variable showings (The same writer who had him punch and kick pre crisis Superboy with no ill effects, also had him hurt his leg on a super lobsters shell.), but we're supposed to throw out PIS showings on the board.

And considering KK from day one was able to fight Superboy, it's pretty obviously PIS when he struggles with regular humans, or characters well beneath the Kryptonian/Daxamite tier. (Brave and the Bold was particularly bad with that, so he wouldn't outshine Batman.)

njXZbpXq1aM&feature=related

1:15 - 3:20

removes a couple tons of weight from his ankles then holds them with arms extended... doing so with very little effort. Before he took the weights off, he jumps 30 feet in the air doings multiple backflips.

AzDRfemi1wI&feature=related

1:20 - 2:30

clearly showing supersonic speed.

Originally posted by marwash22


KK has super karate and is trained under his master to take on meta humans.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
KK has super karate and is trained under his master to take on meta humans. what does that mean exactly?

It means he can hang with people who are super speedster, super strength, and can enhance his own stats as well. All through super karate.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
It means he can hang with people who are super speedster, super strength, and can enhance his own stats as well. All through super karate. Ok, so we know...

KK can beat people who have Superspeed.
KK can beat people who have Superstrength.
KK can beat people who have Superspeed and Superstrength.
KK can beat people who have MA skill.

How about someone with all the above?

Originally posted by marwash22
Ok, so we know...

KK can beat people who have Superspeed.
KK can beat people who have Superstrength.
KK can beat people who have Superspeed and Superstrength.
KK can beat people who have MA skill.

How about someone with all the above?

Fatal Five feat, if memory serves.

Eugh... How did this match get voted in...

I'm still not seeing it.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Eugh... How did this match get voted in...

we should start voting on threads that will spark the best debates

i'll battlezone a gorgon fan (or fans) right now

Originally posted by marwash22
Rock Lee has super sonic speed, class 10 in strength and he's a top tier MA. Absolutely nothing you said can be proven. Except maybe the class 10, fine with that.

PC Karate Kid punks Rock Lee.

Also, LOL at Carver thinking Rock ****ing Lee would be able to do as well as PC Karate Kid in DC.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Eugh... How did this match get voted in...

I'm still not seeing it.

Me either. All people are saying here is

Rock Lee is >>>>>>> This person cause I say so!



and then very badly explained feats...

"Clearly this very fast animation of nothing happening is super sonic, because of how it was not drawn"

Is there more to this Rock Lee cat than what's been shown?

lee needs some saki, then he might move too unpredictably for KK to fight properly

Not really.

why is that?

it did alright against kimimaro

Originally posted by Etna
Me either. All people are saying here is

Rock Lee is >>>>>>> This person cause I say so!



and then very badly explained feats...

"Clearly this very fast animation of nothing happening is super sonic, because of how it was not drawn" you're funny. It's actually the exact opposite. All people have said in defense of KK, is "he fights Kryptonians"... which means shit because their not fighting him seriously and they don't have MA skill.

Are you actually implying that fighting a human martial artist is more impressive than fighting an FTL class 100 alien?

Seriously?

Is that really your argument?

Originally posted by NemeBro
Are you actually implying that fighting a human martial artist is more impressive than fighting an FTL class 100 alien?

Seriously?

Is that really your argument? You tell him.

What a terrible argument that guy has. It's the worst.

how bout some KK scans guys, salvage this shit

Originally posted by NemeBro
Are you actually implying that fighting a human martial artist is more impressive than fighting an FTL class 100 alien?

Seriously?

Is that really your argument? are you actually implying that anyone KK has ever fought, actually fought him using said ftl speed? scans, please.

Also, like i said before, strength doesn't matter when you're going up against an all world martial artist and you can't fight your way out of a wet paper bag.

see, Batman vs. damn near the entire DC brick populace.

Originally posted by marwash22
you're funny. It's actually the exact opposite. All people have said in defense of KK, is "he fights Kryptonians"... which means shit because their not fighting him seriously and they don't have MA skill.

Yeah and thats actually "Something" They've been saying some achievements about KK

So far you have just have been spatting out

"Hes Fast! hes strong! hes a top tier MA cause I say so!" and thats...it...

Try actually giving rock lee some help instead of trying to make everyone believe your word.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
why is that?

it did alright against kimimaro
That was actually a response to Illa's question which was before your post.

my opinion has jack squat to do with this, look at the video. are you telling me he's not super fast, super strong and a top tier martial artist?

Originally posted by marwash22
are you actually implying that anyone KK has ever fought, actually fought him using said ftl speed? scans, please.

Also, like i said before, strength doesn't matter when you're going up against an all world martial artist and you can't fight your way out of a wet paper bag.

see, Batman vs. damn near the entire DC brick populace. Strength doesn't matter against a world-class martial artist, as long as you have no skill? Hm. Lol. You're funny. How's about this, to test out your argument, go fight a grizzly bear. Or maybe a gorilla. Or a rhino! Surely your epic H2H combat skeelz will allow you to prevail against these stronger, less skilled opponents, right?

Originally posted by marwash22
my opinion has jack squat to do with this, look at the video. are you telling me he's not super fast, super strong and a top tier martial artist?

I'll say hes fast, although I don't know how fast.
I'll say hes strong, although I dont know how fast.
Neither do you obviously

Top tier martial artist? no I won't call him that even if I look at those videos 100 times

Originally posted by marwash22
my opinion has jack squat to do with this, look at the video. are you telling me he's not super fast, super strong and a top tier martial artist?

Those two videos don't establish him as a top tier martial artist. He's not a top tier MA in the anime universe. Naruverse maybe but there are tons of MAs around that would keep Lee out of the top tier martial artists. Kenshiro is one of them.

if the bear or the gorilla fought me in the same manner the Kryptonians fought KK, then yeah.

Originally posted by marwash22


if the bear or the gorilla fought me in the same manner the Kryptonians fought KK, then yeah. I'm not joking.

Try it.

Lee's not even top-tier in his own universe.

And really, Naruto at that time was maybe sonic speed at best and didn't start getting stronger and faster til Part 2. Even then, we still don't know how strong Lee is now because he hasn't done dick since the Gaara rescue arc.

Naruto right now is only mildly supersonic, and I am talking about the fastest characters.

It's clear Marwash doesn't even watch Naruto.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
It's clear Marwash doesn't even watch Naruto.

Probably



Does anyone have any speed/and or strength feats of Gaaras Sand thing? Since it seems rock lee can get passed it.

Then again that sand easily crushed his leg or something right?

Originally posted by Etna
Probably



Does anyone have any speed/and or strength feats of Gaaras Sand thing? Since it seems rock lee can get passed it.

Then again that sand easily crushed his leg or something right? Gaara's sand shield is pretty fast, but nothing to indicate how much. As for how durable it is, eh, hard to tell, depends on how much sand he compacts and builds up to block.

Offensively, Gaara is very powerful, able to create gigantic tidal waves of sand and generate enough to cover a large section of his village and block the explosion which would have leveled like two city blocks or so, but it does not matter, Gaara is far more powerful than Lee, Lee was only able to outrun the sand.

Here's some KK stuff:

KK vs. Mon El

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/6089/lsh111133me.jpg
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/4713/lsh111147fy.jpg (Here he dodges heat vision shot in multiples of directions, and from point blank range)

Originally posted by NemeBro
Gaara's sand shield is pretty fast, but nothing to indicate how much. As for how durable it is, eh, hard to tell, depends on how much sand he compacts and builds up to block.

Offensively, Gaara is very powerful, able to create gigantic tidal waves of sand and generate enough to cover a large section of his village and block the explosion which would have leveled like two city blocks or so, but it does not matter, Gaara is far more powerful than Lee, Lee was only able to outrun the sand.

And from what I remember, that Gaara feat was about 3 years later. So Gaara got a lot more powerful between the years... So rock lee fought a less powerful Gaara


Anyone know how many tons those things on Lee's legs weigh?
Does Anime Filler count for Rock Lee feats?

Lee's only chance is going blue like he did against the sand guy.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Here's some KK stuff:

KK vs. Mon El

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/6089/lsh111133me.jpg
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/4713/lsh111147fy.jpg (Here he dodges heat vision shot in multiples of directions, and from point blank range) never saw those

i hate karate kid even more

Yeah.

Val Armorr ain't nuthin' to f*ck wit.

He's way too over the top to not be awesome.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
never saw those

i hate karate kid even more

The star system toss, I could see hating, because it's kind of goofy even by Karate Kid standards, but are those scans any worse then anything else he's ever done..?

Can someone explain who is Val Armorr and why is he so awesome?

Val Armorr is Karate Kid's government name.

I think i missed something....
what makes those scans so special?
Cause he dodged laser beams? How fast are those?

Originally posted by Etna
I think i missed something....
what makes those scans so special?
Cause he dodged laser beams? How fast are those? Lightspeed.

He also caught a Daxamite speeding towards him and tossed him.

In the next two pages of the fight I posted he used the momentum of Mon El's speedblitzing bullcharge to launch him into space.

I'd have posted them but the links expired.

edit*

That's Mon El, by the way.

Originally posted by Etna
I think i missed something....
what makes those scans so special?

Because that's Mon El he's fighting. A daxamite, with powers equivalent to Supermans.



As fast as their personal speed is, if not faster.

There's also a scan of Mon El trying to rush Val at super speed, and getting tossed into another star system.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Lightspeed.

He also caught a Kryptonian speeding towards him and tossed him.

O_O Lightspeed?

Sucks... I love Rock Lee and all, but I don't think he has a chance here.


If Rock Lee even manage to use his open chakra gate things without being pummeled by Karate Kid before hand. Karate Kid can just keep dodging Rock Lee till the gates weaken him, which doesn't take long iirc.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/LSH111-18.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/LSH111-19.jpg

Originally posted by illadelph12
Val Armorr ain't nuthin' to f*ck wit.

Originally posted by cdtm
The star system toss, I could see hating, because it's kind of goofy even by Karate Kid standards, but are those scans any worse then anything else he's ever done..? he's too smug and perfect, a quality that superman shares and a reason i disliked characters like that as a child

actually, kk pisses me off more since he's just some normal guy, it's one of the reasons getting heated in comic debates is illogical since the writers can make whatever shit up they want and we just have to take it like it is

Originally posted by illadelph12


he's a practitioner of jiujit-sue, he will win cause the writer is in his corner

So is the nature of fiction...

but with kk there is no intrigue or feeling for his well being, he simply wins nomatter what..... yay?

Not necessarily.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Naruto right now is only mildly supersonic, and I am talking about the fastest characters. haermm

Spiderman vs Firelord was written, and roundly rejected by the various communities.

But yeah, I don't think debating about comic book characters is worth getting heated about either. In the end, all we're arguing about is a laundy list of feats.. It's good fun, but it's not really an exact science, and there's no trophy for your horse winning..


Originally posted by psycho gundam
but with kk there is no intrigue or feeling for his well being, he simply wins nomatter what..... yay?

He's gotten curbstomped plenty of times too. Even in his solo series, where he beat most of the Legion of Super Heroes and Superboy, he also had lots of trouble with these alien lobsters, basically getting toyed with and hurting his foot kicking them.

He also had problems with these law enforcement types that could see 5 seconds into the future, and numerous other poor showings..

His most famous "loss" is probably against Nemesis Kid, who can adapt whatever power is needed to counter someone elses power. So, he instantly developed a higher level of space karate, and kicked Val Armorr's butt.

Some more scans for KK.

Val is the master of ALL known fighting styles and weapons.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/2/25810/522002-princessprojectrakaratekid_large.jpg

Chops his way out of a diamond prison.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/Adventure_365-16.jpg

Val vs Don Allen. A super speedster.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/Adventure373-17.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/Adventure373-18.jpg

Val shatters the Emerald Eye of Ekron. Something Pre-Crisis Superboy couldn't dent.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/SLSH-198-15.jpg

Val holds down a mind controlled Superboy.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/SuperboytheLegionofSuperheroes245-1.jpg

Breaks out of Interon restraints. Interon is DC's Adimantium.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/LSuperboyLSH231-28.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/LSuperboyLSH231-30.jpg

Shatters a meteorite.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/KarateKid02-07.jpg

Cancels out an earthquake.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/KarateKid02-15.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/KarateKid02-16.jpg

Battles Pre-Crisis Superboy for a time.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/KarateKid12-07.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/KarateKid12-10.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/KarateKid12-11.jpg

Val HEARS Emeralds Emperess heartbeat a KILOMETER away.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/LSH121-14.jpg

Sparring with Ultra Boy.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/Untitled-Scanned-11.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/Untitled-Scanned-12.jpg

Punches MicroLad.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/Untitled-Scanned-25.jpg

Pics up on Invisible Kid through his hearing.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/Karate%20Kid/Untitled-Scanned-08.jpg

Val detects a tracer Batman put on him.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/Karate%20Kid/JLA10-16ThePyre-LegionBoy.jpg

The famous lightning dodge.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/Karate%20Kid/JLA10-17ThePyre-LegionBoy.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/Karate%20Kid/JLA10-18ThePyre-LegionBoy.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/Karate%20Kid/JLA10-25ThePyre-LegionBoy.jpg

Takes on Equus.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/Karate%20Kid/Countdown36-18.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/Karate%20Kid/Countdown35-24.jpg

The idea that anyone from Naruto can take Val is laughable

Holy crap, people did not do their homework this time around. Ol' bushy brows is toast. Burnt, dried, crusty toast.

Originally posted by Etna
O_O Lightspeed?

Sucks... I love Rock Lee and all, but I don't think he has a chance here.


If Rock Lee even manage to use his open chakra gate things without being pummeled by Karate Kid before hand. Karate Kid can just keep dodging Rock Lee till the gates weaken him, which doesn't take long iirc.

I love Rock Lee as well. Easily one of my favs in anime. He can last for some time, but will lose the majority. He will be one of Val's worthy opponents.

As long as PIS is not protecting Karate Kid, Rock Lee wins.

Karate Kid completely outclasses Rock Lee in pure skills, but Lee is still pretty skilled. However, Lee moves so extremely fast that even Kakashi's Sharingan had a hard time following his movements, he completely speedblitzed Gaara. And he is pretty strong, look how easily he moved with those at least 350 kilo (each) weights on his ankles...

Rock Lee wins this, easily.

Originally posted by YoBro
As long as PIS is not protecting Karate Kid, Rock Lee wins.

Karate Kid completely outclasses Rock Lee in pure skills, but Lee is still pretty skilled. However, Lee moves so extremely fast that even Kakashi's Sharingan had a hard time following his movements, he completely speedblitzed Gaara. And he is pretty strong, look how easily he moved with those at least 350 kilo (each) weights on his ankles...

Rock Lee wins this, easily.

How is it PIS if he's been consistently doing these things?

Originally posted by Prep-Man


Battles Pre-Crisis Superboy for a time.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/KarateKid12-07.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/KarateKid12-10.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/KarateKid12-11.jpg




Lol, more display of super dickery.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
How is it PIS if he's been consistently doing these things?

Whoever Karate Kid defeated was stupid, then. Karate Kid might be able to defeat opponents who are able to be defeated by opponents who only got 0,0000000000000000000000000001% of their own strenght and speed, but Rock Lee won't lose to someone who is this much slower and weaker than himself, even though Karate Kid is more skilled than Rock Lee.

Unless Karate Kid gets the superpower of speed, then no, he can't defeat a martial artist who is many times faster and stronger than himself. I'm talking about a logic here, as in a situation where this is not a story.

Logic doesn't overrule scans in this forum, you aren't debating right.

Current KK ain't that bad is he? at least he is Asian now

Originally posted by YoBro
Whoever Karate Kid defeated was stupid, then. Karate Kid might be able to defeat opponents who are able to be defeated by opponents who only got 0,0000000000000000000000000001% of their own strenght and speed, but Rock Lee won't lose to someone who is this much slower and weaker than himself, even though Karate Kid is more skilled than Rock Lee.

Unless Karate Kid gets the superpower of speed, then no, he can't defeat a martial artist who is many times faster and stronger than himself. I'm talking about a logic here, as in a situation where this is not a story.

Logic? your defending a ninja(s) who takes days to skip across forests to get to a country...That's not super speed

Karate Kid who dodges Lightspeed lasers while talking and not breaking a sweat? That is Super speed

Originally posted by Etna
Logic? your defending a ninja(s) who takes days to skip across forests to get to a country...That's not super speed

Karate Kid who dodges Lightspeed lasers while talking and not breaking a sweat? That is Super speed


But i thought he didn't have super speed he must have superhuman attributes.

Originally posted by YoBro
Whoever Karate Kid defeated was stupid, then. Karate Kid might be able to defeat opponents who are able to be defeated by opponents who only got 0,0000000000000000000000000001% of their own strenght and speed, but Rock Lee won't lose to someone who is this much slower and weaker than himself, even though Karate Kid is more skilled than Rock Lee.

Unless Karate Kid gets the superpower of speed, then no, he can't defeat a martial artist who is many times faster and stronger than himself. I'm talking about a logic here, as in a situation where this is not a story.

Honestly you're beginning to sound butt hurt because a mid tier martial artists can't beat Karate Kid. Kid has the consistent feats backing him where as you've only posted a fight with Gaara and something else I believe.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Honestly you're beginning to sound butt hurt because a mid tier martial artists can't beat Karate Kid. Kid has the consistent feats backing him where as you've only posted a fight with Gaara and something else I believe.

You confuse me with someone else... And no, I'm not butthurt.

If it was a story written by DC, Karate Kid would win, mainly because they don't like him losing because his skills has to look cool.

But if we're debating this in a logical manner, all the skill in the world won't help you if your opponent is at least a little experienced, as well as many times faster and stronger than you.

Doesn't KK has a discipline that allows him to boost himself to kryptonian levels? Something like super karate or stuff.

Yeah, he does. Though he doesn't become quite Kryptonian level. It channels his chi and allows him to perform at an enhanced superhuman level for a short period of time, increasing all of his attributes significantly.

Is there anything else on Rock Lee besides the videos from the beginning?

Originally posted by illadelph12
Is there anything else on Rock Lee besides the videos from the beginning?

He's not that bad of a character, I like him and all, but nothing worth mentioning that would put him over a kryptonian or anything KK handles on a regulart basis.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Is there anything else on Rock Lee besides the videos from the beginning?

He fought this guy who can grow bones or something, and the bones are...strong i guess...well not that strong

Rock Lee fought him and then...oh wait I believe he lost and was about to die until Gaara (That Sand dude from the video) Saved him.
...doesn't help Rock Lee, nvm

ok! A feat Rock lee has is he was permanently unable to be a ninja for the rest of his life thanks to the end of that fight (in that video you saw). He became handicapped, and couldn't use one of his legs cause sand he got in his bones ... or something like that.
Thankfully this female with an incredibly large bust, figured out a healing jutsu/medicine or something that healed rock lee and enabled him to be a ninja who can't use Ninjitsu/Genjutsi once again!
No wait...that was a Tsunade Feat...

...Ok wait! there was a time when Rock lee...uhh...nevermind. Everything else is Filler and Movie...which is also another form of filler



Well to my knowledge I believe thats about it. I don't remember anything else

Hmm...

Maybe we should have pitted Rock against Captain America or Wolverine. Possibly Spiderman.

All of the filler episodes aren't canon?

Maybe I misunderstand the definition of filler. You're talking about stuff like that Curry of Life part, right?

From my understanding filler is never canon.

Canon is everything from the manga only.

The Anime is based on the Manga.

Filler is what they used for like...slowing down the speed of progression of anime to keep it from reaching the original sources peak. (24 minutes of animation a week, is to fast compared to 18 pages a week.)
So they do this by adding non-canon conflicts, story lines, characters, and even new special attacks at certain times.

Examples of Filler: Naruto episode Curry of Life (or all 100 of those stupid naruto episodes about stupid non-ninja conflicts) Bleach Bounto Arc, Goku learning how to Drive

The most common filler is stretching some part of the story more then it should by time. Like
In Manga of DragonBall Z, Goku took 1 page to turn super saiyan.
In the Anime it takes goku 10 minutes *exaggerating* And while Goku turns super saiyan, teammates/villains start mumbling themselves at how powerful Goku has become.



Originally posted by illadelph12
Hmm...

Maybe we should have pitted Rock against Captain America or Wolverine. Possibly Spiderman.

I'm pretty sure Wolverine would stomp Rock lee.
Spiderman might have been a good one.
I dont know much about Captain Political to say.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Hmm...

Maybe we should have pitted Rock against Captain America or Wolverine. Possibly Spiderman.


Nah, just remember what happened in the Wolverine vs Luffy match, it became so much about speed it isn't even funny and some people think Lee is faster than Luffy

Originally posted by illadelph12
Hmm...

Maybe we should have pitted Rock against Captain America or Wolverine. Possibly Spiderman. or kakashi vs gorgon, but whatevs

Originally posted by illadelph12
Hmm...

Maybe we should have pitted Rock against Captain America or Wolverine. Possibly Spiderman. Nah, it seems to be a problem of not giving KK his due respect; next time he's eligible, I'll suggest something like...

Karate Kid vs. Yusuke, Toguro, Yoko, Hiei, Sensui, Bui & Karasu... that seems to be a more adequate match-up.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Lightspeed.

He also caught a Daxamite speeding towards him and tossed him.

Prove that they are light speed.

How bout Kizaru VS KK?

Originally posted by carver9
Prove that they are light speed. are you stupid? it doesn't work that way... we need to prove that Rock Lee is Supersonic, but they don't need to prove shit, that's just how it works.

Originally posted by amnesia
How bout Kizaru VS KK?

Rock Lee is enough... again, KK has NEVER fought anyone like Rock Lee... Hell, KK even admitted in those scans, Val powers is his weakness and it is. He is a brute... doesnt have any training or skill under his belt and the little skill that he has isnt on the level of someone like Rock Lee. Are those scans impressive, yes, against brick like characters that rely completely on there powers... is it something to use against a debate against someone like Rock Lee, no, because again, Rock Lee is a different character.

Dodging lasers... Wolverine, Spiderman, along with thousands of other street levelers has done this... hell, Cap AND Wolverine dodged blast from Thanos himself. If you look at physical stats... Rock Lee is superior in every fashion and in regards to being a top tier martial artist, if you dont think Rock Lee is, it is something wrong with you.

I'm not sure though, i haven't read anything KK or Naruto just voted for it because i knew it would at least be a debate.

Well, in the case of the Mon El feat I posted, he bullrushed at a rate of speed sufficient enough for Val to judo toss him several hundreds of thousands of miles away in a manner of seconds. Someone else can do the math on that for an exact velocity (since it wasn't explicitly stated).

I have a pretty good knowledge of Karate Kid due to researching him in order to use him in a tournament a few years back. The claims in regards to him are in fact all legit, if, admittedly, hard to believe (which is why he was a good choice for the tourney; his feats are based on skill rather than actual superpowers). Considering what he's done on panel, and accounting for the fact he's supposed to just be a base human, it's hard to reconcile it, but it's canon and legit.

It didn't look like superman went FTL though.

Again, Lee's not even top-tier IN HIS OWN UNIVERSE. The list of characters in Naruto that would slap him down like an angry child alone is in the double digits, let alone verses like One Piece, YuYu Hakusho, or Hokuto no Ken.

I think Kenshiro has a legitimate shot at beating Val, personally.

Originally posted by carver9
Prove that they are light speed. Prove that the heatvision is lightspeed?

Seriously?

If this dont prove to you that he is a top tier martial artist then something is wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjybB4oBcdY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=iv&v=9ZvBEosF6O4&annotation_id=annotation_553206

Originally posted by illadelph12
Also, KK has owned skilled martial artists as well, not simply bricks with superspeed. Sure, but did any of those skilled martial artist's happen to have meta-powers?

Originally posted by illadelph12
Well, in the case of the Mon El feat I posted, he bullrushed at a rate of speed sufficient enough for Val to judo toss him several hundreds of thousands of miles away in a manner of seconds. Someone else can do the math on that for an exact velocity (since it wasn't explicitly stated).

I have a pretty good knowledge of Karate Kid due to researching him in order to use him in a tournament a few years back. The claims in regards to him are in fact all legit, if, admittedly, hard to believe (which is why he was a good choice for the tourney; his feats are based on skill rather than actual superpowers). Considering what he's done on panel, and accounting for the fact he's supposed to just be a base human, it's hard to reconcile it, but it's canon and legit.

You see that love tap that KK gave Val, THATS what sent him flying away so fast, it wasnt the blitz. KK made him go at that distance by either hitting a nerve or something, I dont know what it was that he did but that bullrush (Bullrush?) wasnt at the speed of light... not even close. You cant see light and Monel was completely visible to the necked eye.

Carver can't you learn to consolidate multiple replies into single posts rather than double or triple posting all the time?

Originally posted by Kal-El Summers
Again, Lee's not even top-tier IN HIS OWN UNIVERSE. The list of characters in Naruto that would slap him down like an angry child alone is in the double digits, let alone verses like One Piece, YuYu Hakusho, or Hokuto no Ken.



WTF... they can slap him down because they are more powerful, not because they are more skilled.

Take away their powers on both sides and Rock Lee would DESTROY them. Just because Rock Lee cant beat everyone in his universe does not mean he isnt top tier martial artist.

Batman cant beat everyone in his universe but he is top tier... Black Panther cant beat everyone in his universe but he is top tier. Wolverine cant beat everyone in his universe but he is top tier... Hope you get my point.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Carver can't you learn to consolidate multiple replies into single posts rather than double or triple posting all the time?

I dont know how to do it.

A love tap sent him to a red star?

Gonna laugh at the visible thing. You actually can see light. That's how come we get colors and vision and stuff. You can't see faster than light, but there are comic characters that can do that anyway.

Originally posted by carver9
If this dont prove to you that he is a top tier martial artist then something is wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjybB4oBcdY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=iv&v=9ZvBEosF6O4&annotation_id=annotation_553206

Not a top tier MA. Shikamaru wouldn't have touched KK, Akuma, Kenshiro, Raoh, Toki, Ryu etc.

Originally posted by carver9
I dont know how to do it.
See the button next to the quote button? Press it. That creates a quickquote which can stack with other quickquotes without going straight to a reply window.

"Rock Lee isn't a top tier martial artist in his own universe"... this may quite possibly be the single dumbest thing anyone on KMC has ever written in regard to a character's skill. Rock Lee would annihilate damn near everyone in the Naruto-verse in h2h if you make all things equal and take away the other peoples special abilities (kekkei genkai, genjustu, ninjustu, etc).

Again, show me KK fighting anyone who is both a martial artist and has meta-powers like Lee.

Originally posted by marwash22

Again, show me KK fighting anyone who is both a martial artist and has meta-powers like Lee.
This idea that Lee's low end superspeed and (at best) Spider-Man level strength combined with MA skill is somehow more daunting a challenge than a PC Kryptonian/Daxamite's powerset is just beyond retarded.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
This idea that Lee's low end superspeed and (at best) Spider-Man level strength combined with MA skill is somehow more daunting a challenge than a PC Kryptonian/Daxamite's powerset is just beyond retarded. powerset means dick when you have no concept of how to use it in a fight and your opponent is someone who's only skill is fighting.

EDIT:

Example... I'm faster and stronger than you could ever hope to be. You're a better fighter than i could ever hope to be; I charge at you in a straight line... what do you think will be the outcome?

KK fought rookie Kryptonian/Daxamites?

Originally posted by marwash22
Sure, but did any of those skilled martial artist's happen to have meta-powers?

Yes, some of them in fact did.

Originally posted by marwash22
powerset means dick when you have no concept of how to use it in a fight and your opponent is someone who's only skill is fighting.

EDIT:

Example... I'm faster and stronger than you could ever hope to be. You're a better fighter than i could ever hope to be; I charge at you in a straight line... what do you think will be the outcome?

I'm a better fighter, my reflexes are more greater and trained better. I redirect your momentum.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
This idea that Lee's low end superspeed and (at best) Spider-Man level strength combined with MA skill is somehow more daunting a challenge than a PC Kryptonian/Daxamite's powerset is just beyond retarded.

The ability to move planets like billiard balls pales before someone who knows martial arts! Rock lee clearly has feats of moving at faster than light speed and striking power that rivals planetbusting, otherwise why would anyone claim he's more of a threat than a Pre-crisis Krytponian. That would just be stupid.

Originally posted by marwash22
powerset means dick when you have no concept of how to use it in a fight and your opponent is someone who's only skill is fighting.
A bear will annihilate even the greatest human martial artists in a fight. Clearly any person who could take a bear in h/h would also be capable of taking pretty much any human MA in h/h.

Acting like MA skill suddenly makes sub-sonic or trans-sonic speed and 10 tonner strength more dangerous than FTL speed and planet busting strength is, well:
Originally posted by Omega Vision
just beyond retarded.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Yes, some of them in fact did. like who?Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
I'm a better fighter, my reflexes are more greater and trained better. I redirect your momentum. exactly.

Seriously though, we're underestimating light speed, it was clear that supes didn't go light speed in the scans.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
This idea that Lee's low end superspeed and (at best) Spider-Man level strength combined with MA skill is somehow more daunting a challenge than a PC Kryptonian/Daxamite's powerset is just beyond retarded.

Didnt KK tell you in those scans how he was able to overcome Monel?

That only works if he's still within human limits. A bar room brawler with ten times human strength, durability and speed could beat any martial artist on Earth.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
A bear will annihilate even the greatest human martial artists in a fight. Clearly any person who could take a bear in h/h would also be capable of taking pretty much any human MA in h/h.

Acting like MA skill suddenly makes sub-sonic or trans-sonic speed and 10 tonner strength more dangerous than FTL speed and planet busting strength is, well:

Show the Kryptonians fighting at light speed against KK. PROVE that it is light speed or stop bringing it up.

Colossus fought Gladiator, I guess he can combat at light speed.

Originally posted by Galvaclaw
That only works if he's still within human limits. A bar room brawler with ten times human strength, durability and speed could beat any martial artist on Earth.

Good point...

So with this said, since Rock Lee have the durability, speed, and strength advantage, that puts him above KK.

The only real debate here is if KK is a better fighter than Rock Lee.