Superman and Wonder Woman versus Silver Surfer and Stardust

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RLAAMJR.
Who will win?

tideoftime
Surfer/Stardust. Not sure what spread I'd use -- really would have to think about it. SM and WW do get some wins, however; but the Heralds take the majority for this one.

janus77
T2 10/10. they can't lose.
either one on T2 can take out Superman quickly, whilst WW is no match for (or threat to) either Surfer or Stardust.

-Pr-
no expression

Q99
Originally posted by janus77
T2 10/10. they can't lose.
either one on T2 can take out Superman quickly, whilst WW is no match for (or threat to) either Surfer or Stardust.

That's... not the case. Superman does not go quickly, and WW is a threat to either.

I'd bet on T2 too, but you're significantly underestimating T1.

janus77
when either of T2 can energy drain and/or emit red sun radiation/k-nite, what's Superman going to do? grit his teeth and punch really hard?

what can WW do? does she have anyway to cope with being trapped in Surfer's board?

Lord_Talron
she lassos him duster

janus77
and tiara flings to decapitate Stardust, ftw yes

-Pr-
Originally posted by janus77
when either of T2 can energy drain and/or emit red sun radiation/k-nite, what's Superman going to do? grit his teeth and punch really hard?

what can WW do? does she have anyway to cope with being trapped in Surfer's board?

Red sun doesn't work without cutting him off from the sun, and it needs to be a constant attack, not just one blast.

them making kryptonite isn't cut and dry, imo.

energy drain won't work without cutting him off from the sun. he has literal days worth of reserves.

D_Dude1210
Team 2 9.9/10

janus77
Originally posted by -Pr-
Red sun doesn't work without cutting him off from the sun, and it needs to be a constant attack, not just one blast.

them making kryptonite isn't cut and dry, imo.

energy drain won't work without cutting him off from the sun. he has literal days worth of reserves.
I'm not suggesting "one blast" attacks, I'm suggesting that either or both apply all techniques simultaneously and constantly for the duration, whilst they blast/pummel him to dust.

Surfer could also poison Superman's cells, prevent yellow-sun energies reaching Superman by creating a filter around the whole battlefield.

by any reasonable application of T2's powers and battle technique, I think Superman would be downed fast, it's only when popularity comes into it that "Superman finds a way".

-Pr-
Originally posted by janus77
I'm not suggesting "one blast" attacks, I'm suggesting that either or both apply all techniques simultaneously and constantly for the duration, whilst they blast/pummel him to dust.

Surfer could also poison Superman's cells, prevent yellow-sun energies reaching Superman by creating a filter around the whole battlefield.

by any reasonable application of T2's powers and battle technique, I think Superman would be downed fast, it's only when popularity comes into it that "Superman finds a way".

And that's in character how?

see above.

so you're just going to lowball superman, then?

janus77
Originally posted by -Pr-
And that's in character how?

see above.

so you're just going to lowball superman, then?
energy manipulation and weakness exploitation is often Surfer's plan A when he fights Herald levellers. he's done many creative variations from messing with lifeforce (Lunatik) to draining energies (Hulk), to absorbing and amping (blackbodies) ... there's more examples, but really it's a given "in character" thing for him to do.

I'm not low-balling Superman, I've not suggested anything that isn't a basic part of the character's standard characterisation. he's a phenomenally powerful character with a set of weaknesses that everyone from Lex to Batman has exploited and they have been exploitable.

it's only the high showings, the rarer instances, where he's powered through on will power/determination. here he's dealing with characters that can drink him dry and will, if they see it as necessary (and to Surfer, it's the least inconvenient method of dealing with Superman).

guy222
T 2 FTW

D_Dude1210
Team 2 is just too versatile for T1. They have higher durability overall, has superior ranged attacks, can fly faster than T1 (therefore, guaranteeing range combat to ensue) and can weakness exploit. The only thing T1 has going for them is the lame lasso move. :-p

shokosugi
Team 1 10/10.

Superman or WW solos via blitz.

janus77
Originally posted by shokosugi
Team 1 10/10.

Superman or WW solos via blitz.
damn, I forgot about that!

yeah, T1 FTW, 10/10 yes

Bouboumaster
Team 2 10/10 via their power-set.
Surfer, ON panel, have:
- Threatened Gladiator of using radiations against him
- Absorb solar energy from a girl that had power via solar absortion

Also, Surfer, now, since his upgrad, seems to beat the crap out of herald lvler, putting him probably at the top of the food chain, and Stardust, even if we don't count his power-set and his immortality, is able to go against Beta Ray Bill.

biensalsa
Team 1 just because it has Superman.

But team 2 has 2 HIGH HERALDS

Team 2 should win most of them but only because WW is not a high herald.

But I love the biased marvelites

Q99
Originally posted by biensalsa
Team 1 just because it has Superman.

But team 2 has 2 HIGH HERALDS

Team 2 should win most of them but only because WW is not a high herald.


Sure she is. Not as high in it as Supes or Surfer, but in there.

Stoic
I'm questioning whether the lasso would work on Stardust.

shokosugi
Superman or WW are both ABOVE high herald.

Stoic
Originally posted by shokosugi
Superman or WW are both ABOVE high herald.

No they really aren't. Gladiator could match Superman all day and night. He's mid to high Herald.

shokosugi
Originally posted by Stoic
No they really aren't. Gladiator could match Superman all day and night. He's mid to high Herald.


WRONG.

and don't you ever mention Gladiator and Superman in the same sentence.

janus77
Gladiator and Superman are comic characters who can fly and shoot laser beams from their eyes.

D_Dude1210
Originally posted by Stoic
No they really aren't. Gladiator could match Superman all day and night. He's mid to high Herald.

Don't argue logic with shokosugi. Doesn't work.

illadelph12
This is a bad matchup in my opinion. You should team Superman up with someone like Firestorm, a high end GL, or someone with more exotic matter/energy powers. Wonder Woman is basically a weaker Superman clone with a magic lasso, no eye beams, and far, far, far better looking in a bikini.

(no homo)

The Nuul
Originally posted by shokosugi
WRONG.

and don't you ever mention Gladiator and Superman in the same sentence.

STFU.

carver9
Surfer and Stardust 10/10...

King Castle
SS and stardust ftw. imo

Omega Vision
Originally posted by illadelph12
This is a bad matchup in my opinion. You should team Superman up with someone like Firestorm, a high end GL, or someone with more exotic matter/energy powers. Wonder Woman is basically a weaker Superman clone with a magic lasso, no eye beams, and far, far, far better looking in a bikini.

(no homo)
Why did you add no homo? You were making a very hetero statement. stick out tongue

Bouboumaster
Originally posted by biensalsa
Team 1 just because it has Superman.

But team 2 has 2 HIGH HERALDS

Team 2 should win most of them but only because WW is not a high herald.

But I love the biased marvelites

Say the biased DCDude.

Black bolt z
Team 2 stomps.I'll explain later.

illadelph12
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Why did you add no homo? You were making a very hetero statement. stick out tongue

Just covering all the variables...

-Pr-
Originally posted by janus77
energy manipulation and weakness exploitation is often Surfer's plan A when he fights Herald levellers. he's done many creative variations from messing with lifeforce (Lunatik) to draining energies (Hulk), to absorbing and amping (blackbodies) ... there's more examples, but really it's a given "in character" thing for him to do.

I'm not low-balling Superman, I've not suggested anything that isn't a basic part of the character's standard characterisation. he's a phenomenally powerful character with a set of weaknesses that everyone from Lex to Batman has exploited and they have been exploitable.

it's only the high showings, the rarer instances, where he's powered through on will power/determination. here he's dealing with characters that can drink him dry and will, if they see it as necessary (and to Surfer, it's the least inconvenient method of dealing with Superman).

no, just... no.

gogogadgetgo
what's up with Wonder Woman? just got my hands on WW 601 and 602 and WTF? sure, i've heard of the new costume, but it seems she cant fly plus she gets hit by a bullet? WTF? did she get de-powered or something or did she go mental and forgot all of her powers?

-Pr-
Originally posted by gogogadgetgo
what's up with Wonder Woman? just got my hands on WW 601 and 602 and WTF? sure, i've heard of the new costume, but it seems she cant fly plus she gets hit by a bullet? WTF? did she get de-powered or something or did she go mental and forgot all of her powers?

she got a massive depowerment, from what i've heard.

shokosugi
Originally posted by The Nuul
STFU.


no you STFU.

marwash22
Well, given the uber to the max nature of that Lasso (which can apparently bind energy and gas and cure cancer), i don't see how Team 2 wins.

janus77
Originally posted by -Pr-
no, just... no.
you have me convinced there, I concede the point to your superior proofsyes

BattleMage
Originally posted by janus77
T2 10/10. they can't lose.
either one on T2 can take out Superman quickly, whilst WW is no match for (or threat to) either Surfer or Stardust.

King Castle
massive beating by team cosmic b/c of wonder woman's depowerment...

she should be fighting street metas not heralds..feminist_en

-Pr-
Originally posted by janus77
you have me convinced there, I concede the point to your superior proofsyes

i'd have given more of an answer if you'd given me something to work with. shrug

Sasaraixx
Originally posted by -Pr-
she got a massive depowerment, from what i've heard.


Aye. Eventually she is going to recover her powers. We just don't know when or at what levels. Not going to lie, I'm a bit concerned.

And even if this was WW pre-JMS, Team 2 still wins.

biensalsa
Originally posted by Bouboumaster
Say the biased DCDude.

A biased DCDude who admits defeat???

Yes I can see how much of bias I am. Me thinks it was the exposure of PC what got me so much love in here

Q99
Originally posted by gogogadgetgo
what's up with Wonder Woman? just got my hands on WW 601 and 602 and WTF? sure, i've heard of the new costume, but it seems she cant fly plus she gets hit by a bullet? WTF? did she get de-powered or something or did she go mental and forgot all of her powers?

Some time-thing happened to make a new timeline in which she's a lot less powerful.




She is one of the strongest heroes on Earth, and does have some nice tricks up her sleeve. Most notably, her sleeves: The bracer can block any energy attack the other team can throw, so she's great at playing defense to Clark's offense.

Also in melee she's one of the most dangerous around.

You don't need energy powers to be effective against heralds.

Naija boy
Tesm 2 hard. Superman vs Surfer is already a pretty bad match up. Moreover if it gets switched around even then physical attacks arent really the best way to talk on an energy being like stardust that can also become intangible so team 1 is still screwed. Then Wonderwoman vs current Surfer.....heh, that is just setting up a pretty heavy beatdown right there.

Konton
Team 1 can't beat Stardust with physical force and HAS to use the lasso to pull any wins. Surfer has unfair advantages against Kal, too.

Team Marvel 9.5/10

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