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http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/77/460063-cheetah_rodolfo_miglari01_large.jpg

vs

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/77/113994-25954-thor_large.jpg

Ultimate Thor or 616 Thor?

616. I was in a hurry for the pic.

How's he going to counter her speed without Mjolnir ?

Thor wins. She'll do some damage -mostly some light scratches from what I've seen- but sooner or later Thor takes her down. A ground stomp, some lightning or whatever a writer would use in regular comics. A hit and run tactic can only last for so long. It'd be similar to a fight with Mongoose.

Does she still have the Zoom upgrade?

yes, but lightning was not affective when she was hit with it the last time. It's gonna take a lot more than that.

Originally posted by Don Corleone
How's he going to counter her speed without Mjolnir ? How's she gonna deal with him being THOR?!!! sneer

Originally posted by marwash22
How's she gonna deal with him being THOR?!!! sneer

http://i42.tinypic.com/iejh4x.jpg




Or the time before that. She deals with lightning powered foes surprisingly often



I think you're underestimating her strength, Cheetah can cause a lot of damage. If it wasn't for her bracers Wondy'd end up with major injuries almost every time.



It's a permanent upgrade. Cheetah didn't draw on an external power there, Zoom showed her how to unlock more of her own speed, and she showed it again in her next Wondy fight.

It's been a while since I read any issue of that arc that didn't have Superman/Wonder Woman confrontations. Was she amped? Because I can't recall of an instance of Cheetah ever being that strong.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
yes, but lightning was not affective when she was hit with it the last time. It's gonna take a lot more than that.

When was this? And what type of lightning hit her?

I highly doubt that Thor's lightning would not be enough to take down Cheetah. I think she fought one electric based foe once. Maybe the Superman villain.

Originally posted by Q99
http://i42.tinypic.com/iejh4x.jpg




Or the time before that. She deals with lightning powered foes surprisingly often isnt that 2 different cheetahs ?

I still can't remember the Cheetah ever being that strong. Superman himself seems a bit surprised that she can hit like that.

Originally posted by Q99
I think you're underestimating her strength, she can cause a lot of damage. If it wasn't for her bracers Wondy'd end up with major injuries almost every time.

Really? Any scenes come to mind? I'd be surprised if she did anymore damage than Wolverine. I don't remember much regarding Cheetah before the Flash tie in with Rucka. I always found her incredibly....meh so I never payed much attention to her. She'd pop in as a villain and I'd mostly skim through it.

Originally posted by Q99
It's a permanent upgrade. Cheetah didn't draw on an external power there, Zoom showed her how to unlock more of her own speed, and she showed it again in her next Wondy fight.

Okay. That would definitely make this fight harder.

I've been racking my mind about the male Cheetah and all I recall is a power transfer or something done by Circe. I think the male version was intended to be superior or something.

Well, the regular Cheetah had an upgrade by her, too. Diana can call upon lightnig, IIRC.

Originally posted by King Castle
isnt that 2 different cheetahs ?

Yes but it's the same power, and Barbara's the more dangerous of the two.



Not an amp. A different user, but one who was less experienced with the power. I'll note that Cheetah wouldn't have done so well if he hadn't caught Superman off-guard, but Cheets has long been strong.


Cheetah's first appearance had her tug-of-warring with Diana, or for a more recent she can hold Donna back with one hand http://i26.tinypic.com/2q2mmty.jpg.

Here's her doing major damage to the supertough Firestorm too.


Cheetah's strength has always been relatively close to Diana's.



Nah, Barbara came after him to reclaim the Cheetah power and if anything she had the edge.

http://i41.tinypic.com/wgsqhv.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/35hli6t.jpg

(Barbara's the darker colored Cheetah. Donna showed up to protect *him* from *her* ).

Didn't Cheetah get an upgrade the writer before Gail? Along with Giganta and Dr. Psycho.

Originally posted by Q99
Not an amp. A different user, but one who was less experienced with the power. I'll note that Cheetah wouldn't have done so well if he hadn't caught Superman off-guard, but Cheets has long been strong.

Cheetah's first appearance had her tug-of-warring with Diana, or for a more recent she can hold Donna back with one hand http://i26.tinypic.com/2q2mmty.jpg.

Here's her doing major damage to the supertough Firestorm too.

Cheetah's strength has always been relatively close to Diana's.

Really? I'm pretty sure I've seen Diana manhandle her and shit. One scene happened pretty recently. I think it was when Diana's fat blonde friend was kidnapped.

I always thought of Cheetah as being at best Thing level strength wise and on average in the Luke Cage class. I mean I was aware of her first appearance but I always viewed that in the same light as I did Wolverine's first appearance.

Do you have any other scene besides the tug of war one? I want to know if this is consistent.

Originally posted by Q99
Nah, Barbara came after him to reclaim the Cheetah power and if anything she had the edge.

http://i41.tinypic.com/wgsqhv.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/35hli6t.jpg

(Barbara's the darker colored Cheetah. Donna showed up to protect *him* from *her* ).

I just checked my collection and I don't have this issues on hand so I'll have to take your word for it and hope your not leaving out or forgetting any info.

Frankly, if Cheetah is nearly as strong as Diana/Marvel plus on that level in terms of speed, she should rip Thor to shreds. Superman should have been gutted as well. At least, on paper. Once your on that level, cutting anyone below Trans should be easy.

What's the most damage she's done to Diana?

Thor's piercing durability has been pretty good recently though. Wolverine didn't do as much damage as I thought he would and he was withstanding slashes from the Disir. They easily cut an Asgardian to pieces and were able to even cut off Hela's arm.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Didn't Cheetah get an upgrade the writer before Gail? Along with Giganta and Dr. Psycho.

Cheetah did, the 'Zoom upgrade' to her speed.

Giganta* and Psycho didn't. Though Giganta did get a new outfit around that time when she joined the Secret Society around Infinite Crisis, and has gotten better with her size (mainly not so easy to trip).


*Funny fact, Giganta's not really that much of a long-term WW villain despite her fame from Superfriends. She had about 2-3 pre-crisis encounters, and then another 2-3 post-crisis ones before Infinite Crisis that aren't crowd scenes, including one where she didn't have her giant body yet.




Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Really? I'm pretty sure I've seen Diana manhandle her and shit. One scene happened pretty recently. I think it was when Diana's fat blonde friend was kidnapped.

Rise of the Olympian? Eventually, but Cheetah got in several good shots (with an inner monolog on how almost unstoppable Minerva was) before Diana was able to grab her.



Nah, Cheetah's been consistently nearish to Diana (though I'll note there's times when Diana's been pretty weak, and she'll be written to match), baring a few obvious massive PIS moments like Salvation Run of writers who have no idea how the character normally is.

It's more her toughness that's lower (though still fairly high). Once Diana can actually get in a position to dish out damage things tend to turn in her favor, it's just that's very hard to do. Cheetah's all about the offensive blitz.

The Cheetah is, after all, a god.



Not as many clear-cut tests of strength, but she's not afraid to go physical. Even does the tail slap thing sorta like the guyCheetah did against Superman.

Or an old one of Diana have trouble holding her back. Similar here, a few runs later.





She's beaten her, and given her a number of claw wounds on several occasions, but I'm hard pressed to think of a time that says "Wow, that's a major injury!"

Cheetah takes it.

Toss up.I'm slightly slightly slightly leaning towards cheetah.Like 5.00000001/10.

Cheetah.

Originally posted by Q99
Rise of the Olympian? Eventually, but Cheetah got in several good shots (with an inner monolog on how almost unstoppable Minerva was) before Diana was able to grab her.

Nah, Cheetah's been consistently nearish to Diana (though I'll note there's times when Diana's been pretty weak, and she'll be written to match), baring a few obvious massive PIS moments like Salvation Run of writers who have no idea how the character normally is.

It's more her toughness that's lower (though still fairly high). Once Diana can actually get in a position to dish out damage things tend to turn in her favor, it's just that's very hard to do. Cheetah's all about the offensive blitz.

The Cheetah is, after all, a god.

Possibly. I'm not sure.

Hmm. Then I'll have to put her slightly above Thing in strength.

Originally posted by Q99
Not as many clear-cut tests of strength, but she's not afraid to go physical. Even does the tail slap thing sorta like the guyCheetah did against Superman.

Or an old one of Diana have trouble holding her back. Similar here, a few runs later.

She's beaten her, and given her a number of claw wounds on several occasions, but I'm hard pressed to think of a time that says "Wow, that's a major injury!"

Based on what I've seen I'd say Thor wins then. Her ability to inflict damage isn't as great as someone of her strength level should be. And her durability isn't as high as one would assume.

She does at best the same amount of damage to Thor as Wolverine, Karnivor or the Disir I guess. Or less. I'd say that's accurate from what I've seen. Thor's above Wonder Woman in durability and apparently Cheetah hasn't done much more than superficial damage to her.

I could use showings that would argue she wouldn't do shit to him at all but I don't want to delve into his higher end feats. Although I'm assuming that's what you've been using for Cheetah.

I'd wager that once Thor gets his hands on her, it's downhill from there. He eventually puts her down whether from lightning or a ground stomp technique. Do you disagree?

I'm surprised no one's mentioned flight yet as an option for Thor.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Possibly. I'm not sure.




Hmm. Then I'll have to put her above Thing in strength.

Based on what I've seen I'd say Thor wins then. Her ability to inflict damage isn't as great as someone of her strength level should be. And her durability isn't as high as one would assume.

I'd say she does at best the same amount of damage to Thor as Wolverine, Karnivor or the Disir. Or less. I'd say that's accurate from what I've seen. Thor's above Wonder Woman in durability and apparently Cheetah hasn't done much more than superficial damage.

I could use showings that would argue she wouldn't do shit to him at all I don't want to delve into his higher end feats.

From what I've seen, she isn't putting Thor down before he does the same to her. Do you disagree? But she has flashlike speed to amp her blows and the claws could be considered adamantium for the purpose of this fight.

^Flash like speed doesn't automatically give you massive damage inflicting abilities. Frankly, it doesn't do that for a great deal of the time.

Honestly? In comics sometimes it does the opposite. Super speed jabs will do less than the same amount of blows at normal speed would do at times.

Why would they be considered Adamantium? I still think she should rip Thor or Superman to shreds if she has strength on such a level unless they're on a higher end day.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
^Flash like speed doesn't automatically give you massive damage inflicting abilities. Frankly, it doesn't do that for a great deal of the time.

Honestly? In comics sometimes it does the opposite. Super speed jabs will do less than the same amount of blows at normal speed would do at times.

Why would they be considered Adamantium? I still think she should rip Thor or Superman to shreds if she has strength on such a level. Cause they're magical and said to 'cut anything' or some similar crap.

Tell that to Superman. And apparently to Wonder Woman. I just saw here take a clear slash to the face and there was barely any damage.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Tell that to Superman. And apparently to Wonder Woman. I just saw here take a clear slash to the face and there was barely any damage.

I will point out that, while sharp (and Superman was IMO supposed to have been quite hurt by this cut. Wound looks redder here), they are still like a quarter inch long most of the time.

So you won't get big, Wolverine-styled impalements too often, with some exceptions due to raw strength like against Firestorm, but an accumulation of cuts that pile up damage even against the very super-tough.

Adamantium-ish short cheetah claws are still short claws, no matter how sharp they are.

Here's another example. Firehawk, quite supertough, gets her faced ripped open but still relatively shallow.




Yea. I'd be too ashamed to show the low-end Cheetah stuff. It's.... very, very sad. Even as a non-Cheetah fan you'd probably headdesk at some of the author's mishandling of the character.



Indeed, unless he's already sufficiently wounded at the point for her to get free.

The question is will he get his hands on her?

Most people seriously underestimate the Cheetah; while she isn't *really* in WW's or Supes range of strength (usually, when she's had to go strength vs. strength with a real heavy hitter, there were either mitigating circumstances -- the tug of war with Diana 25 years ago was with a proportionally much "weaker" take on WW, and Diana's arms were hurt/cut in the previous panels, and therefore in pain -- or it's more properly her exploiting her greater speed to get the advantage), she is still much stronger than most realize. And her attack speed is nearly that of the Flash's; she's been that fast for about the past decade, and usually only loses due to PIS, or when she fluctuates in terms of determination/drive (when WW was on trial for Lord's death, Cheetah was getting in the good blows, but then got distracted, and when Diana cut off her tail, and finally got her hands on her, she went down in two powerful blows -- before and during that moment, she was beginning to wane in terms of her self-belief, which Zoom had indicated often was the key to her unlocking her divine power).

I am split, however, on her battling with Thor. He can take as ass-load of a beating, and while his own "god-card" can be played, it really boils down (much like with WW) of "can he get his hands on her"; she can dodge any general energy attacks he can create (and endure at least one or two shots), but if he can get a solid couple of punches on her, that she can't roll with to mitigate, then he can win.

I'll say it's a split, with Cheetah's wins making Thor regret leaving Mjolner at home that day, and Thor's wins making Barbara go "Oh, great -- a blonde, Norse "Wonder Man" just stomped my ass... God, I hate Diana and her "boyfriends"...".

Originally posted by tideoftime

I'll say it's a split, with Cheetah's wins making Thor regret leaving Mjolner at home that day, and Thor's wins making Barbara go "Oh, great -- a blonde, Norse "Wonder Man" just stomped my ass... God, I hate Diana and her "boyfriends"...".

Diana's her vengeance-buddy No-one's allowed to mess with them but each other.

http://i35.tinypic.com/e85r90.jpg

Haha. Since it's Wonder Woman, that seems so lesbian.

Originally posted by Q99
I will point out that, while sharp (and Superman was IMO supposed to have been quite hurt by this cut. Wound looks redder here), they are still like a quarter inch long most of the time.

I guess that makes the attack seem better but it could just be different shading and all that. Really? Did he point that out later on?

Originally posted by Q99
So you won't get big, Wolverine-styled impalements too often, with some exceptions due to raw strength like against Firestorm, but an accumulation of cuts that pile up damage even against the very super-tough.

Adamantium-ish short cheetah claws are still short claws, no matter how sharp they are.

Here's another example. Firehawk, quite supertough, gets her faced ripped open but still relatively shallow.

Yea, I don't know if shallow cuts will be enough to stop Thor. I guess if she goes for the throat or the eyes and keeps at it, it'll be enough but if she goes for the vitals, that will simply force Thor to use smarter tactics. Maybe something like he did against Quicksilver:
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/DefeatsQuicksilver2.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/DefeatsQuicksilver3.jpg

Under Slott, current Quicksilver is pretty damn fast.

Or maybe some omni directional blasts. Some flying and lightning would also be useful.

Originally posted by Q99
Yea. I'd be too ashamed to show the low-end Cheetah stuff. It's.... very, very sad. Even as a non-Cheetah fan you'd probably headdesk at some of the author's mishandling of the character.

I assumed so. Since you've shown off some of the Cheetah's high end stuff, me being a Thor fanboy and all, it's only natural I show off some of Thor's better stuff. Here's basically a list of piercing resistance showings:



Apologizes if it's a bit much.

Originally posted by Q99
Indeed, unless he's already sufficiently wounded at the point for her to get free.

The question is will he get his hands on her?

Meh, Thor's a tough bastard. His will power plus Asgardian nature -recently Doom removed the heart of a regular Asgardian and the bastard was still kicking for 5 minutes as if he'd be fine if the heart was placed back in it's spot. Doom noted that he wasn't even on the level of beings like Loki or Thor- allows him withstand a ridiculous amount of damage.

He could.

Screw honor and fair combat, Thor would be really stupid if he simply didn't take off a few dozen feet into the air.

Honestly, Thor could win this fight pretty easily but too there's a strong possibility he'd fight like a brick.

I'm surprised there's not more subtext between them honestly. In most stories they're fairly antagonistic but in this one they teamed up against the White Magician (the one who killed Artemis) so they got more slashy lines than normal



Not in words, it's just the impression that I got.



Good tactic, and it's not too different than what Diana used against Cheetah in Rise of the Olympian. Though Cheetah doesn't pause between rushes as much as Quicksilver does, more aggressive and less cocky.



Nice scans, thanks



Preferably higher, she leaps around pretty high, and like to do 'grab with tail and slam' stuff too.

I don't see Cheetah doing any more damage than this to Thor:
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/Disir1.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/Disir2.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/Disir3.jpg

And I think I'm being pretty generous here if she only does superficial damage to Wonder Woman.

Disir are pretty powerful by the way. Sliced through Hela:
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/Disir4.jpg

Did the same to Mephisto's elites as I recall.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

And I think I'm being pretty generous here if she only does superficial damage to Wonder Woman.

Well it's worse than it looks. In Rise of the Olympians (which someone has *got* to scan and put into a respect thread), right before Diana caught her, her thought bubbles were saying she could barely stand. They may be small but they mount up fast.

Also, part of why they're superficial is she's actively avoiding them.

I'm aware of that scene and another scene where Diana had trouble going after Cheetah's claws. In my opinion that just takes away from Diana's damage soak and will power more than it adds to Cheetah. Superficial cuts are superficial cuts. And as seen, there are something Thor can withstand plenty off.

Recently Diana was shot in the arm and put down for some time. That kind of shit just takes away from her will power in my eyes. I know the bullet had some enchantment on it but it wasn't like Kryptonite as I recall. She just went down from the pain.

It's similar to a comic where Superman lost his powers while dealing with a flood and completely folded. Lol worthy. He was like b*tching about bleeding or something. Just a bit embarrassing in my eyes.

Originally posted by Q99
I'm surprised there's not more subtext between them honestly. In most stories they're fairly antagonistic but in this one they teamed up against the White Magician (the one who killed Artemis) so they got more slashy lines than normal

Haha. Wonder Woman should just come out as a bi. They should also do away with the virginity thing. It's just unrealistic considering her age. Albeit, we are talking about comics.

Originally posted by Q99
Not in words, it's just the impression that I got.

Anything more specific? Superman didn't yell out when he was scratched and so on which makes me believe he was basically unharmed.

Originally posted by Q99
Good tactic, and it's not too different than what Diana used against Cheetah in Rise of the Olympian. Though Cheetah doesn't pause between rushes as much as Quicksilver does, more aggressive and less cocky.

True but Thor also has the ability to manipulate the Earth. His created Earth Quakes and so on before. Although, I don't see that happening. I can picture the entire area going to hell as if it was the end of the world if Thor wished it to.

If I was in Thor's body, this would be a pretty easy fight but like I said, he'd fight like a brick. Still, without Mjolnir if he was put in such a situation, either his fighting skills, speed/reflexes, or weather powers would be played up.

Originally posted by Q99
Nice scans, thanks

No prob.

Originally posted by Q99
Preferably higher, she leaps around like a jungle cat and all that, and likes to grab foes with her tail to slam them back down to Earth (why does a cheetah have a prehensile tail? She just does!).

He can fly in space without the aid of Mjolnir. Still, Thor's flight without Mjolnir has been inconsistent at times but in the last few decades, I don't believe it's been shown he depends on Mjolnir for flight. The opposite.

Personally I doubt she's a virgin, they just haven't come out and said it.

And her mother's all but come out, Hippolyta and Phillipus (black Amazon general) have a thing for each other.



Mm, if I could find more scans I could probably answer that more solidly.

The entire island has mass orgies or something. They've been there for thousands of years without any men.

And didn't Hercules keep her as a a sex slave at one point? You know he hit. Diana's mom isn't a virgin.

Dude's awesome even in the DCU.

What issue number is it? I'll find the issue and upload the scans.