Cross Genre Match #15: FOXHOUND (MGS) vs Weapon X

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Omega Vision
Rosters:

Weapon X:
Wolverine
Sabertooth
Maverick/Agent 0
Fantomax
X-23
Silver Fox
Garrison Kane
Deadpool

Foxhound:
Liquid Snake
Revolver Ocelot
Decoy Octopus
Psycho Mantis
Sniper Wolf
Vulcan Raven
Solid Snake
Grey Fox (Cyborg Ninja)
Raiden
Big Boss
Metal Gear Rex

Fight Locales:

1) Urban battlefield environment (war torn Baghdad)
2) Open environment (Grand Canyon)
3) Rustic (Vietnam Jungles)
4) Modern City (Las Vegas)

Who wins?

Q99
What's the precise lineup of each? All of Foxhound (that is, the villains of MGS1 + Solid Snake and Grey Fox?), and who's on X?

Omega Vision
^ I have no idea.

Ask the guy who nominated it.

marwash22
i think the cross genre matches are losing steam, there's been a drop in interest since the Bleach WW thread. i honestly think that Automatic advance thing you guys set up killed the vibe.

Q99
Originally posted by marwash22
i think the cross genre matches are losing steam, there's been a drop in interest since the Bleach WW thread. i honestly think that Automatic advance thing you guys set up killed the vibe.

Wasn't the Bleach/WW thread just two ago and followed by a one-sided fight?

-Pr-
Automatic advance?

marwash22
Originally posted by Q99
Wasn't the Bleach/WW thread just two ago and followed by a one-sided fight? i suppose it could just be two bad matches in a row. Originally posted by -Pr-
Automatic advance? Delph and OV set up an auto-advance for the second highest vote getter.

Q99
When I think Weapon X, I think:
Wolverine
Sabertooth
Maverick/Agent 0
Fantomax
X-23
Silver Fox
Garrison Kane
Deadpool

So I'm going to say it's them Vs:

Liquid Snake
Revolver Ocelot
Decoy Octopus
Psycho Mantis
Sniper Wolf
Vulcan Raven
Solid Snake
Grey Fox (Cyborg Ninja)



Unless someone says otherwise.

Omega Vision
Originally posted by marwash22
i think the cross genre matches are losing steam, there's been a drop in interest since the Bleach WW thread. i honestly think that Automatic advance thing you guys set up killed the vibe.
Umm...there's only been one thread since the Bleach vs WW thread. And that was a dud because virtually everyone agreed Kakashi won.

illadelph12
Originally posted by Q99
When I think Weapon X, I think:
Wolverine
Sabertooth
Maverick/Agent 0
Fantomax
X-23
Silver Fox
Garrison Kane
Deadpool

So I'm going to say it's them Vs:

Liquid Snake
Revolver Ocelot
Decoy Octopus
Psycho Mantis
Sniper Wolf
Vulcan Raven
Solid Snake
Grey Fox (Cyborg Ninja)



Unless someone says otherwise.

I can dig it. thumb up

*edit

Plus throw in a MG Rex for Foxhound.

*edit2

Throw in Raiden and Big Boss as well.

Omega Vision
I really have no clue about the MGS Universe but how exactly do they put Wolverine, Deadpool, or Sabretooth down?

illadelph12
Nuke 'em for a 10 count.

Q99
Originally posted by illadelph12
I can dig it. thumb up

*edit

Plus throw in a MG Rex for Foxhound.

*edit2

Throw in Raiden and Big Boss as well.

Big boss was more a commander to the team by the time it formed than a fighter, and Rex kinda sucks anyway.


Originally posted by Omega Vision
I really have no clue about the MGS Universe but how exactly do they put Wolverine, Deadpool, or Sabretooth down?

Well, Deadpool can be dealt with by slicing his head off easily enough.

Putting the other two down will be hard but you've got psychics, uber-swordfighters, bullets that will be used in crazy-good ways....

"Id"
Grey Fox vs Deadpool get.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by Omega Vision
I really have no clue about the MGS Universe but how exactly do they put Wolverine, Deadpool, or Sabretooth down? ^

i'll make a quick bio for them

"sniper wolf" is a female sniper from war torn kurdistan that will literally study her prey until she basically falls in love with them, and will learn their every mannerism and routine. her sniping skills are extreme and she is more than willing to spend weeks sitting and looking through her scope just for one shot. she is addicted to this military drug called (iirc) daizipam to still her nerves as to not tremble even slightly (it's almost coma inducing to normal people)

"vulcan raven" was this huge innuit wreastler type who had mystical knowledge and was able to weild a minigun and ammo pack that was about 3 times larger than normal, and looked as if it should be mounted on a battleship.

"decoy octopus" is basically equal to marvel's chameleon, but this guy was a little more thorough in his disguises since he could even imitate the target's blood type and other insane stuff

"liquid and solid snake" are basically supersoldiers that awere eugenically engeneered and tought to fight from early age, both are adept in hand to hand but solid snake is more like the punisher in skillset, and liquid is more like the plotter behind the scenes who can kick your ass if he needs to....but he has metal gear here also (i'll get to that)

"psycho mantis" too much to say so watch this:

ayZG-RJCUYs

one of the best villains of all time

"gray fox/cyborg ninja/deepthroat (no homo)"

YHlwzKip9do

YhOqIUjpfMM

ZPXwXd7SKbI&feature

his armour was pretty durable, and his offense is considerable considering what he was fighting

"revolver ocelot" basically, lee van cleef (angel eyes) but an even better shot.

"this is the greatest handgun ever made. the colt single action army. six bullets, more than enough to kill anything that moves. now i'll show you why they call me, "revolver."

^ i popped a boner writing that just now no expression

5sny3RfMYMU

"metal gear rex" is a mobile missile launching mech suit.

weapons include; a rail gun that fires a single tactical nuclear warhead to anywhere on the globe that cannot be detected (no emissions); anti-vehicle/infantry vulcan guns; clawed feet; a large cutting laser; and a missile pod.

67KEBDXAwOY



anyone who hasn't played that game missed out big time.

"Id"
Psycho Mantis mind rapes.

psycho gundam
he'll make the not so mind tampering resistant characters try and kill the ones who aren't effected.

Q99
Originally posted by psycho gundam
he'll make the not so mind tampering resistant characters try and kill the ones who aren't effected.

Yea, that'll be key, because I don't think Foxhound could take Weapon X in a strait fight.

Dum Dum Dugan
Originally posted by Q99
When I think Weapon X, I think:
Wolverine
Sabertooth
Maverick/Agent 0
Fantomax
X-23
John wraith
Garrison Kane
Deadpool
Weapon 13
So I'm going to say it's them Vs:

Liquid Snake
Revolver Ocelot
Decoy Octopus
Psycho Mantis
Sniper Wolf
Vulcan Raven
Solid Snake
Grey Fox (Cyborg Ninja)



Unless someone says otherwise.

fixed.

psycho gundam
weapon x has more agents than that (if you want to get technical)

fox hound has genome soldiers in a 10:1 ration though biscuits

Q99
Fantomax is Weapon 13, and I think adding more combatants to the WX side might unbalance things, unless we throw in Raiden for the Foxhounds too.

Adding in Wraith (who I admit to forgetting when I did the list) and Raiden seems reasonable.

Dum Dum Dugan
Originally posted by Q99
Fantomax is Weapon 13, and I think adding more combatants to the WX side might unbalance things, unless we throw in Raiden for the Foxhounds too.

Adding in Wraith (who I admit to forgetting when I did the list) and Raiden seems reasonable.
sorry I ment to say weapon 15.

also silverfox shouldent be on the team. She never did really anything it be next to impossiable to tell what level she was at, I not even sure she had powers.

Q99
I think 15 is too powerful. We're already getting off Weapon X a little with Fantomex, Ultimaton even more-so.

Dum Dum Dugan
technically this should be weapon plus which covers everyone.

everything other then wolverine is all techincally not weapon x.

Q99
Most of the others did work for or were associated with the Weapon X program, they just weren't 'the' Weapon X.

Parmaniac
If X-Force doesn't switch the controller ports their ****ed.

Raiden si pretty much a class 100 just by the way, if we use current versions.

Dum Dum Dugan
Originally posted by Parmaniac
If X-Force doesn't switch the controller ports their ****ed.

Raiden si pretty much a class 100 just by the way, if we use current versions.
weapon 15 was compared to superman...........I think there good.

Parmaniac
That wasn't a statement that Raiden solos or anything just wanted to throw it in as an info. Cause Omega Vision is absolutely unfamiliar with MGS.

Q99
Which members of Weapon X are likely to fall to Wolf's sniper fire?

Dum Dum Dugan
Originally posted by Parmaniac
That wasn't a statement that Raiden solos or anything just wanted to throw it in as an info. Cause Omega Vision is absolutely unfamiliar with MGS.
I know.


Just saying weapon 15 is a monster. Might even be unfair to have it in this fight.

Parmaniac
Originally posted by Q99
Which members of Weapon X are likely to fall to Wolf's sniper fire? IDK but a lot of Fox Hound members are really useless here.

Revolver Ocelot (As soon as he needs to reload)
Sniper Wolf (as soon as the X-Force is close enough)
Decoy Octopus (absolutely)

Cause the X-Force has to many massive HFs on their side.

EDIT: Maybe we should add the Beauty and the Beast Unit from MGS4? I was a bit under the wrong impression who's in this when I supported this thread.

Dum Dum Dugan
whats the scenerio/land scape becuase it matters. Because with any type of covering no ones hitting fantomex and he gunna ambush them. Also Maverick/Agent Zero were vibranium suit and absorbs kenetic energy himself, bullet on gunan be pretty usesless on him.

Q99
Originally posted by Parmaniac
IDK but a lot of Fox Hound members are really useless here.

Revolver Ocelot (As soon as he needs to reload)
Sniper Wolf (as soon as the X-Force is close enough)
Decoy Octopus (absolutely)

Revolver can reload pretty fast, and Wolf'll be behind the others. Headshots at the least inconvenience most of the others.

Agreed on Octopus.

The Foxhound does have a lot more firepower; Vulcan Raven, Snake and his missile launchers, all that fun stuff. They do also have the only psychic around.




This thread seems to be just adding more people to each side. Let's leave out Weapon 15 and the B&BU and all that. Heck, let's even leave out Fantomex since he's with Weapon Plus but not Weapon X.

No point in inflating things, we'll have a small army on each side if we go that way (there's a lot more Weapon Plus people, not to mention the Cobras and Deadcell).

Dum Dum Dugan
edit. to the maker, weapon x jsut means wolverine lol

Dum Dum Dugan
also x-23 is not more part of weapon x program then fantomex, in fact fantomex might be closer.

Q99
Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
none of theses guys were in weapon x but wolverine. The others were all part of side programs which all fall under weapon plus.

They were side-programs that branched off of or were under Weapon X specifically but did not continue on with the weapon plus numbering; Weapon X, even though starting out as Wolverine-focused and just one more number in the program, eventually became it's own sub industry of sorts, starting with Maverick/Sabertooth/Wraith were part of 'Team X' under Weapon X's control, and spinning off the programs that made Deadpool and X-23.


This list:
Wolverine
Sabertooth
Maverick/Agent 0
John wraith
Silver Fox
Garrison Kane
Deadpool
X-23

Is associated with the Weapon X program but no other part of Weapon Plus. Of those, Deadpool and Kane were through Department K so we could drop those if desired (though Department K did work as an arm of the Weapon X Project), and X-23 through the Facility which was intended as a continuation of Weapon X, hence the X-based codename. X-23 is literally the 23rd attempt at making another Weapon X.

All of weapon plus as a whole is too much.

illadelph12
As for battlefields, let's say:

1) Urban battlefield environment (war torn Baghdad)
2) Open environment (Grand Canyon)
3) Rustic (Vietnam Jungles)
4) Modern City (Las Vegas)

Stunner2xx
need to organize this better. Everything is everywhere and need to read 2 pages just to know the basics like who and where

Q99
Originally posted by illadelph12
As for battlefields, let's say:

1) Urban battlefield environment (war torn Baghdad)
2) Open environment (Grand Canyon)
3) Rustic (Vietnam Jungles)
4) Modern City (Las Vegas)


Open like the Grand Canyon, I'd go with Foxhound and all their long range firepower, they can probably shoot up the opposition enough to let Grey Fox do his thing.

Jungles, Weapon X, though with casualties among the less powerful members.


Urban or city... thinking about it. Leaning X due to the difficulty in actually taking them down.

Dum Dum Dugan
Originally posted by Q99
They were side-programs that branched off of or were under Weapon X specifically but did not continue on with the weapon plus numbering; Weapon X, even though starting out as Wolverine-focused and just one more number in the program, eventually became it's own sub industry of sorts, starting with Maverick/Sabertooth/Wraith were part of 'Team X' under Weapon X's control, and spinning off the programs that made Deadpool and X-23.


This list:
Wolverine
Sabertooth
Maverick/Agent 0
John wraith
Silver Fox
Garrison Kane
Deadpool
X-23

Is associated with the Weapon X program but no other part of Weapon Plus. Of those, Deadpool and Kane were through Department K so we could drop those if desired (though Department K did work as an arm of the Weapon X Project), and X-23 through the Facility which was intended as a continuation of Weapon X, hence the X-based codename. X-23 is literally the 23rd attempt at making another Weapon X.

All of weapon plus as a whole is too much.

You have the right gist, but you wrong in a number of area's, some of which is because of reconnt. However team x happen prior to weapon x.


actaully it was revealed that all of the weapon x are part of weapon plus. In there data computers it listed every individual, even nuke. Also revealed that earliest prior to weapon x were actaully attempts to recreate wolverine.

Also if you want to go by name alone, chamber, sauron ect. were all part of weapon x when it reformed.

x-23 is not part of weapon x, she is based off what another organization tried to replicate weapon x.

Dum Dum Dugan
Ok so how is this going down? We going strictly by any one who was associated with purely the weapon x program?


if so we got
wolverine
sabre-tooth
agent zero
wraith
sauron
deadpool
chamber and maybe a few other, I can't think of right now.

illadelph12
Rosters are posted on page 1 now.

Those are final.

Dum Dum Dugan
Originally posted by illadelph12
Rosters are posted on page 1 now.

Those are final.
what that bullshit. Several characters were left out. Also silverfox is completely useless, she never displayed any powers or fighting abilities.


and the other team has several more guys.


honestly this is crap. and obviously some one trying to to make foxhound win. what it not bad enough to leave out several weapon x guys, but instead put in a character who completely useless and give the other team several more characters.

again x-23 is not part of weapon x. sauron/chamber/john wraith were part of it however.

illadelph12
It's 8 Weapon X members/associates Vs 10 Foxhound members and a Vehicle, and 4 of the members of Weapon X have healing factors.

As a rational being, I believe it to be pretty fair taking all things into consideration.

Dum Dum Dugan
Originally posted by illadelph12
It's 8 Weapon X members/associates Vs 10 Foxhound members and a Vehicle, and 4 of the members of Weapon X have healing factors.

As a rational being, I believe it to be pretty fair taking all things into consideration.
again it not 8 weapon x members. x-23 was never part of weapon x.


also silver fox is useless. she has literally no feats, it still almsot questional that she existed at all.

so really they only have 7 combatants, only 6 of them were actaully in weapon x.


7 against 10.


I dont get it, why would some one call it weapon x, but then have some not from weapon x on the team and then have a member of weapon x that literrally did nothing......when there are several weapon x characters beign left out......

Dum Dum Dugan
honestly has anyone here actually read anything about silver fox? Because I am baffled she be put on the team or even be allowed in versus forum battle. She literrally did nothing........not one thing of note........she never even was in a single fight or showed any powers what so ever.......

-Pr-
The rosters stand unless the overseeing guys want to change it. Even if you don't like how it's presented Dum Dum, that's how it is.

If you want to make a case, do it in PM. This thread isn't for that...

Parmaniac
Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
also silver fox is useless. Sounds like the perfect opponent for Decoy Octopus laughing

Dum Dum Dugan
this thread is useless anyways. It was poorly thought out. Much more and betetr options for versus cross over. also I say I was taking it off topic, but lets be honest no ones really debated anything about the fight.

Dum Dum Dugan
Originally posted by Parmaniac
Sounds like the perfect opponent for Decoy Octopus laughing
lol

psycho gundam
rail gun firing a nuke at like mach 20+ will lower weapon X/plus/family size to like...wolverine and sabretooth, and that's presuming they can even survive that these days.

half kilometer = bad news

vulcan raven also mind raped snake (sort of)

Q99
Rex is a sure win at long range, but up close it's honestly kinda useless smile

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan


again x-23 is not part of weapon x

Not the original, but her program was a continuation.

Dum Dum Dugan
Originally posted by Q99



Not the original, but her program was a continuation.
She completely separate. The weapon x program stated up again it upgrades maverick to agent zero, it upgraded sabre-tooth, chamber and I believe sauron.


What x-23 was created by a group who gain information about weapon x program, but they them selfs are not part of it, there a different shadow organization.

SamZED
Originally posted by "Id"
Grey Fox vs Deadpool get. Win. thumb up

Off-topic, Solid Snake vs Cap America is another match id like to see.

StyleTime
Yeah, I can't see why Weapon X has less numbers after reading the comments. The following isn't meant as an affront. I am merely compiling the capabilities presented for MGS so far, and assessing Weapon X's chances.

I see mentions of FOXHOUND possesing a class 100 bullet timer, mach 20+ nuclear warheads, a ****ing MECH, military-grade firepower, and psychokinetic characters. Is this really a reasonable battle at this point? How can Weapon X even start to fight back?

I don't know much about MGS, but it appears someone really wanted to see Weapon X lose. I'm not arguing against the creators of course, I just doubt an argument for Weapon X can be formed at all here.
Originally posted by illadelph12
As a rational being, I believe it to be pretty fair taking all things into consideration.
What exactly could Weapon X do? Were those previous things exaggerations?

illadelph12
It's a mixture of exaggeration on one side, and sour grapes on the other. Most members of Weapon X have psionic defenses, and half the group has high level healing factors. Most members of the MGS group do not and can be killed easily by conventional means. Also, the MGS group uses mainly conventional weaponry which is pretty much child's play for members of Weapon X to either tank and let their healing do it's job, or evade.

Granted, the MG Rex provides a good offense, at long range, but given the battlefields and proximity (.5 km) the use of a nuke would result in the deaths of the Foxhound members as well as most members of Weapon X, save Wolverine, Deadpool, Sabretooth, and possibly X-23.

In close quarters Weapon X has a decisive edge over most members of Foxhound, and in each environment, sans the open battlefield, stealth, which is a strong suit of both groups, can be used. The Weapon X members also have the advantage, and benefit, of having Wolverine, X-23, and Sabretooth, all of which have advanced tracking abilities.

This battle isn't so cut and dry. There's just a clear deficit of tactical thinking and imagination going on amongst the detractors.

psycho gundam
d8ptKV1FC6M

metal gear rex

Q99
Originally posted by StyleTime
Yeah, I can't see why Weapon X has less numbers after reading the comments. The following isn't meant as an affront. I am merely compiling the capabilities presented for MGS so far, and assessing Weapon X's chances.

Most of Fox Hound is badass norms, and most of Weapon X is superhumans.




Worth noting is while there is a strength feat that is huge on behalf of the cyborg ninja (and almost more of a 'bracing' feat than a 'strength' one, and was not in good shape afterwards. I'd almost say it's classs 10 strength that was pushed way, way past his limit for a short time), guns are quite capable of hurting and even killing the person in the exoskeleton. Furthermore, people who IMO aren't more dangerous than Wolverine have fought in melee vs him.

The mech has regularly been taken out by a badass norm on foot with a missile launcher. Regularly.




I will mention part of the reason I've been arguing the strengths of the MGS people more is because, on base, I see Weapon X as the stronger.

KingD19
Actually, Rex weighs 505,450kg, which equates to 1,114,326lbs

That's around the neighborhood of 557 tons.

So that wasn't bracing, he straight up held Rex's foot that was pressing down with all of it's weight, quite casually it seemed.

And to clarify, guns and bullets are no hazard...he's fast enough to block them with no effort, and he easily evaded the machine gun fire from Rex.

Using his sword, he's blocked auto fire so fast his arm doesn't look like it's moving, you just see flashes of his blade and the spark of the bullets being cut/deflected.

He was also casually slicing through stone and metal, and slapping around slabs of rock that had to weigh a couple tons at the least.

Hell, even after having his arm sliced off, he kept fighting, and after getting gored almost completely through the abdomen, and having said abdomen crushed, he kept fighting. And after that, REX couldn't stomp him to death the first time because his exoskeleton was too durable. Even after it'd been majorly compromised, Liquid had REX pressing down with all it's might for nearly a minute before he finally crushed him.

Gray Fox was a F*cking beast, and to underestimate him in this battle gets half of Weapon X killed. Give him his laser along with his sword, and he stomps most of the battle by himself.

Q99
But if he's hit, he is hurt.

The structure of the exoskeleton has massive anti-crush durability, but he can still be shot to death.



He is the best combatant on the Foxhound side easily.

KingD19
Originally posted by Q99
But if he's hit, he is hurt.

The structure of the exoskeleton has massive anti-crush durability, but he can still be shot to death.



He is the best combatant on the Foxhound side easily.

He can be shot to death....but no one on Weapon X is skilled enough to hit him.

And yeah, he's the best, followed by Raiden, then Big Boss and Solid Snake.

Between Raiden and Fox.....I see massive stompage.

KingD19
Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
what that bullshit. Several characters were left out. Also silverfox is completely useless, she never displayed any powers or fighting abilities.


and the other team has several more guys.


honestly this is crap. and obviously some one trying to to make foxhound win. what it not bad enough to leave out several weapon x guys, but instead put in a character who completely useless and give the other team several more characters.

again x-23 is not part of weapon x. sauron/chamber/john wraith were part of it however.


Dum Dum, you're whining because Weapon X has one useless/featless member in Silver Fox and they're missing several people? She's still part of Weapon X and I think she has claws, so that counts for something. Like it's been stated before, Wolverine, Sabes, Deadpool and X-23 have extremly rapid HF's, and Kain can heal to an extent too.

FOXHOUND on the other hand has Decoy Octopus, who did Jack Sh*t before dying...and the only thing he was good for was disguises. He was basically Chameleon, only for Metal Gear fans.

Revolver Ocelot, while not useless entirely, can't do much if anything to anyone besides Fox, Fantomex, and probably Maverick(Don't know how well he handles bullets) And once both of his revolvers are empty, his reload time is crap.

All Psycho Mantis did was throw random objects around the room and read minds, which will be grossly innefective considering all of these people have pretty good psi-shields.

Raven, despite using a vulcan cannon from an F-16, is still shooting bullets, which won't do much to half the team...unless he saws Deadpool, 23, Kain, and Fantomex in half. Despite the sheer power and amount of bullets he puts down range, he's fairly useless besides a distraction and keeping WX on their toes. Oh, and he's slow as hell, he's basically a walking target. A tough target, but a target nonetheless.

Sniper Wolf is helpless once you get up close. And most of the WX teams have dodged bullets.

You see my point? FOXHOUND has 5 people who are virtually useless in this fight besides keeping the non-HF members on their toes and occupied. And even if they down them, HF'ers eat bullets all day.

And you wanna talk about missing members, DEAD CELL was the replacement for FOXHOUND, so we technically could've used Vamp and Fortune. And since you keep talking about how some of them aren't weapon X, we should also be able to use people who weren't part of Foxhound, like Colonel Volgin and Boss and the Cobra Unit, and B&B Unit.

StyleTime
Originally posted by illadelph12
It's a mixture of exaggeration on one side, and sour grapes on the other. Most members of Weapon X have psionic defenses, and half the group has high level healing factors. Most members of the MGS group do not and can be killed easily by conventional means. Also, the MGS group uses mainly conventional weaponry which is pretty much child's play for members of Weapon X to either tank and let their healing do it's job, or evade.

Granted, the MG Rex provides a good offense, at long range, but given the battlefields and proximity (.5 km) the use of a nuke would result in the deaths of the Foxhound members as well as most members of Weapon X, save Wolverine, Deadpool, Sabretooth, and possibly X-23.

In close quarters Weapon X has a decisive edge over most members of Foxhound, and in each environment, sans the open battlefield, stealth, which is a strong suit of both groups, can be used. The Weapon X members also have the advantage, and benefit, of having Wolverine, X-23, and Sabretooth, all of which have advanced tracking abilities.

This battle isn't so cut and dry. There's just a clear deficit of tactical thinking and imagination going on amongst the detractors.
Ok. I thought Psycho Mantis had powers other than telepathy.

Ok.

Ok.

Thanks for the information. Presentation is a large part of discussions such as these, and FOXHOUND had a grand one. I think most people knowledgeable on Weapon X aren't versed on FOXHOUND, so they are forced to go with the statements made here.
Originally posted by Q99
Most of Fox Hound is badass norms, and most of Weapon X is superhumans.

Worth noting is while there is a strength feat that is huge on behalf of the cyborg ninja (and almost more of a 'bracing' feat than a 'strength' one, and was not in good shape afterwards. I'd almost say it's classs 10 strength that was pushed way, way past his limit for a short time), guns are quite capable of hurting and even killing the person in the exoskeleton. Furthermore, people who IMO aren't more dangerous than Wolverine have fought in melee vs him.

The mech has regularly been taken out by a badass norm on foot with a missile launcher. Regularly.

I will mention part of the reason I've been arguing the strengths of the MGS people more is because, on base, I see Weapon X as the stronger.
Based on the statements I read, it seemed like FOXHOUND only needed a few of their members to win though. I thank you for clearing it up.

Ok. I don't want to undercut him obviously, but he sounds a lot more manageable now.

Ok. Was it a surprise attack? The video showed the mech with a laser. How much damage can it do?

Ok.
Originally posted by KingD19
Actually, Rex weighs 505,450kg, which equates to 1,114,326lbs

That's around the neighborhood of 557 tons.

So that wasn't bracing, he straight up held Rex's foot that was pressing down with all of it's weight, quite casually it seemed.

And to clarify, guns and bullets are no hazard...he's fast enough to block them with no effort, and he easily evaded the machine gun fire from Rex.

Using his sword, he's blocked auto fire so fast his arm doesn't look like it's moving, you just see flashes of his blade and the spark of the bullets being cut/deflected.

He was also casually slicing through stone and metal, and slapping around slabs of rock that had to weigh a couple tons at the least.

Hell, even after having his arm sliced off, he kept fighting, and after getting gored almost completely through the abdomen, and having said abdomen crushed, he kept fighting. And after that, REX couldn't stomp him to death the first time because his exoskeleton was too durable. Even after it'd been majorly compromised, Liquid had REX pressing down with all it's might for nearly a minute before he finally crushed him.

Gray Fox was a F*cking beast, and to underestimate him in this battle gets half of Weapon X killed. Give him his laser along with his sword, and he stomps most of the battle by himself.
This guy still worries me. I'm not saying Weapon X couldn't take him down eventually, but Fox sounds like he's a fairly large problem. It appears he's the most physically capable person on either team.

If most of his team are badass normals, it might balance out though.

What else does this Psycho Mantis character bring to the table? He is another that might cause problems.

illadelph12
Also a good thing to note is that Deadpool could conceivably disable the MG Rex very quickly by simply teleporting to it and planting some explosives in key places, and adamantium claws will definitely tear through it and the cyborg's (Raiden and G. Fox) exosuits. Most of the other members of Foxhound have human durability.

*edit

Psycho Mantis is a low level telekinetic that can levitate objects (like himself, tables, and chairs) and mind control people who don't have psi defenses. He's like a very low level Jean Grey (completely devoid of Phoenix, as in a weaker classic Marvel Girl Jean).

Bentley
Wolverine changes to the second controller and stomps Psycho Mantis.

Q99
No, just a guy on foot with a rocket launcher head on, dodging fire. Took muliple missiles to do so, but it's been pulled off. Multiple times. Teleport + demo packs would do it in fast.

The laser's pretty high damage, but iirc Grey Fox did survive a hit badly wounded.

Rex ultimately is not the toughest threat, merely the largest.



He has telekinesis, too, but relatively weak stuff. Throw things at people kind of thing.



Yes.



Other lineup: Ocelot is an incredibly skilled shot with revolvers, good enough to do stuff like ricochet shots, who's also a skilled tactician. Wolf's a really good sniper. Raven can carry a mini-gun but is otherwise just a big guy. Octopus is a shapeshifter but not good in combat, he's practically a non-factor.

The Snakes and Big Boss are just really badass all-around soldiers.




He can mind-control people, but I think just one at a time, and guards against psychics will shut him out.

Limited TK (throw stuff, levitate around), and mind reading.

Originally posted by KingD19
And yeah, he's the best, followed by Raiden, then Big Boss and Solid Snake.

Between Raiden and Fox.....I see massive stompage.

Only if we take Raiden when he had the exoskeleton, if we take him before that point he's just another badass norm.


But yea, two cyborg ninja is a bit much.

illadelph12
Considering the opposition that Wolverine and Co. have dealt with previously (Omega Red, Lady Deathstrike & The Reavers, Sentinels, etc), I think that it's not completely out of their realm to contend with Fox and Raiden. Wolverine alone has some pretty out of the ordinary feats, and I'm pretty sure adamantium claws can slice and dice them with ease.

SamZED
Originally posted by Q99
Raven can carry a mini-gun but is otherwise just a big guy. Octopus is a shapeshifter but not good in combat, he's practically a non-factor.

The Snakes and Big Boss are just really badass all-around soldiers.

Just wanna point a few things out, Raven isnt just a big guy, he's a class 10 big guy with machine gun, while Snakes and Big Boss are about as ordinary as Batman or Captain America.

illadelph12
I'd say Solid Snake is a mild version of Captain America, but fights more in a Frank Castle manner. He's all about covert ops, firearms, and explosive ordinance. A solid High Street Level character nonetheless, and one of my favorites in video games.

Same can be said of Liquid and Big Boss (and I suppose Solidus as well) as far as attributes, though Solid has more feats to back it up. Liquid was supposed to be superior to Solid though Solid bests him in combat. Mainly due to Solid's experience and skill though.

Q99
Originally posted by SamZED
Just wanna point a few things out, Raven isnt just a big guy, he's a class 10 big guy with machine gun, while Snakes and Big Boss are about as ordinary as Batman or Captain America.

True smile

Still when it comes down to a physical contest, even class 10, there's very few Weapon Xs I think Raven could take in close. Garrison's a class 20 and the claw brigade (Logan, Laura, Sabertooth) or Deadpool could IMO handle anyone but the cyborg ninja in melee one on one and win.


Maverick's kinetic energy absorption will be hard to deal with by Foxhound too.

Dum Dum Dugan
Originally posted by KingD19
Dum Dum, you're whining because Weapon X has one useless/featless member in Silver Fox and they're missing several people? She's still part of Weapon X and I think she has claws, so that counts for something. .
You think she has claws? Based on what?


This is all she did, have sex with wolverine, live in cabin, get raped by sabre-tooth, wolverine finds her dead on ground. She pushes a button that open a door once to perhaps help wolverine.


it debatable she even existed. she may have been a memory implant.

Parmaniac
can someone tell me a class 10 feat of Raven? I honestly can't remember any.

StyleTime
Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
have sex with wolverine
That's the only feat she needs.

Q99
Silver Fox did more than that, like defect to Hydra for awhile.

Mostly she seems to be a gun user and probably the least dangerous on the team. John Wraith would've been more useful.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
can someone tell me a class 10 feat of Raven? I honestly can't remember any.

Maybe carrying around that gun so easily?

Parmaniac
Originally posted by Q99
Maybe carrying around that gun so easily? As much as I like VR there's no way in hell the gun wheigs 10t.

illadelph12
Weapon X has some good advantages. Deadpool's teleportation is a game changer as he can move in and set off explosives before FOXHOUND realizes what is going on, and most of the weaponry that FOXHOUND uses won't immediately kill, or possibly even effect, half of Weapon X's roster. It's actually more dangerous to their own teammates than it is to their opponents (assuming that the MG Rex is used to launch large volleys of missiles).

Mobility and stealth is Weapon X's greatest strength verse the MGS Crew. FOXHOUND has them outgunned by volume of arsenal, but not necessarily in effectiveness. Deadpool could teleport himself and Wolverine onto the MG Rex and disable it or co-opt it for their use and turn the tables on FOXHOUND. In the jungles or in a battle ravaged city scenario, the use of cover coupled with Sabretooth, Wolverine, and X-23's tracking powers would give them a distinct advantage in setting ambushes. Plus you have Agent Zero with his adamantium bullets and anti metal sniper rounds, Deadpool and Fantomex's arsenals, etc.

Lots of factors to consider for Weapon X beyond the obvious disadvantage in numbers and guns. 3/8's of Weapon X's roster are regenerating superhuman killing machines.

KingD19
The gun itself is only about 250lbs, but combined with the ammo drum and power supply, it weighs somewhere between 1-2 tons, maybe 3. He was walking around, firing it off without even being affected by the recoil. Not Class 10 I know, but it's still pretty impressive.

Oh, and he was inside that tank that Snake blew up with frags....he wasn't hurt at all.

I don't deny that Adamantium could damage the Radome and the exoskeleton of Rex(Which is highly reinforced)....but Wolverine doesn't have enough power behind his claws to do it. It took Fox tossing his HFS(High Frequency Sword) with all his might, then blasting it with a high powered laser for several minutes.

Oh, and does DP even use his teleporter anymore?

And is this Raiden with or without his ninja suit?

I say if Raiden doesn't have his suit, add Olga with hers.....she wasn't as powerful as Raiden or Fox, but she's still a cyborg ninja.

Parmaniac
Originally posted by KingD19
The gun itself is only about 250lbs, but combined with the ammo drum and power supply, it weighs somewhere between 1-2 tons, maybe 3. He was walking around, firing it off without even being affected by the recoil. Not Class 10 I know, but it's still pretty impressive.
I agree
Originally posted by KingD19
Oh, and he was inside that tank that Snake blew up with frags....he wasn't hurt at all. Good durability feat I had the Tank situation in mind but no feat including it.

KingD19
Originally posted by Parmaniac
I agree
Good durability feat I had the Tank situation in mind but no feat including it.


He could also communicate with and control crows.....so they could probably be some sort of distraction.

Parmaniac
Originally posted by KingD19
He could also communicate with and control crows.....so they could probably be some sort of distraction. I'm not arguing his usefulness or powers. Just that he isn't class 10. smile

KingD19
Originally posted by Parmaniac
I'm not arguing his usefulness or powers. Just that he isn't class 10. smile

Oh, I absolutely agree. He's good, but he's not that good. He's like...Bane on steroids, but he's not more than Class 2-3 methinks.

In fact, nobody on the team has notable super strength besides Gray Fox and Raiden(if he's in his suit....he's useless without it).

Q99
Originally posted by KingD19
Oh, I absolutely agree. He's good, but he's not that good. He's like...Bane on steroids, but he's not more than Class 2-3 methinks.

In fact, nobody on the team has notable super strength besides Gray Fox and Raiden(if he's in his suit....he's useless without it).

He's still an extremely badass soldier (at least when he stops trying to be Snake).

KingD19
That is very true.

SamZED
Originally posted by Q99
True smile

Still when it comes down to a physical contest, even class 10, there's very few Weapon Xs I think Raven could take in close. Garrison's a class 20 and the claw brigade (Logan, Laura, Sabertooth) or Deadpool could IMO handle anyone but the cyborg ninja in melee one on one and win.


Maverick's kinetic energy absorption will be hard to deal with by Foxhound too. Yep. I dont see him beat Wolverine and other. That was a MGS geek in me talking.big grin


Originally posted by Parmaniac
can someone tell me a class 10 feat of Raven? I honestly can't remember any. If we take "Twin Snakes" as a canon update of the original game then Raven tossed a HUGE container at Snake. He sent it flying with one hand for like 30 feet.

KingD19
I forgot about how they added some new stuff in Twin Snakes. Yeah, it is a canon update...so that feats valid.

SamZED
Here's the vid if someone wants to see it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7L0lyNbBvUI
I also forgot he can paralise people with his ravens...confused a weird power.


PS. Dont ask me where Snake was hiding the rocket launcher...

KingD19
Originally posted by SamZED


PS. Dont ask me where Snake was hiding the rocket launcher...

It's totally obvious where he was hiding it. His.......mullet.

Q99
Originally posted by SamZED

I also forgot he can paralise people with his ravens...confused a weird power.


Birdokinesis ^^ Seemed to be just for a moment, though.

KingD19
It stands to reason that you're paralyzed as long as the Raven is making contact.

And going by the cutscene...Raven may have been skilled enough to shoot a missle out of the air with a mini-gun, if so, kudos to the Inuit.

dmills
What about Solidus, Vamp, Fortune and Fatman?

KingD19
Originally posted by dmills
What about Solidus, Vamp, Fortune and Fatman?

They aren't officially part of FOXHOUND, but they are DEAD CELL who were contracted/put in place to replace FOXHOUND and do things in their stead since Snake took them down.

So they could be seen as subs or interim's, which means it's plausible they'd be allowed.

Fortune would be an absolute monster, with her rail gun and her protection ability(which she showed after Ocelot deactivated her uknown gizmo)

Vamp...also an absolute beast.

Fatman, not so much, but Solidus had 2 HF blades, that suit, and the tentacles.

dmills
Doesn't Raiden have nano machines inside of him that amp his stats? That's what threw Vamp off during their fight and why he was able to hang with Solidus in that exosuit. (Badass fight btw.)

KingD19
Originally posted by dmills
Doesn't Raiden have nano machines inside of him that amp his stats? That's what threw Vamp off during their fight and why he was able to hang with Solidus in that exosuit. (Badass fight btw.)

Yeah, he was one of the newest generation Gene-Soldiers; nano machines and intensive experimental gene therapy. Despite his suckiness, Raiden was actually a pretty good fighter before he became a ninja....but after that; that's when he became an uber l88t badass.

dmills
Originally posted by KingD19
They aren't officially part of FOXHOUND, but they are DEAD CELL who were contracted/put in place to replace FOXHOUND and do things in their stead since Snake took them down.

So they could be seen as subs or interim's, which means it's plausible they'd be allowed.

Fortune would be an absolute monster, with her rail gun and her protection ability(which she showed after Ocelot deactivated her uknown gizmo)

Vamp...also an absolute beast.

Fatman, not so much, but Solidus had 2 HF blades, that suit, and the tentacles. I say weapon x has the clear advantage as is. But with deadcell in the mix... I'd kill to see a mini of this.

I wonder if hfs can slice adamantium?

Q99
Originally posted by KingD19
They aren't officially part of FOXHOUND, but they are DEAD CELL who were contracted/put in place to replace FOXHOUND and do things in their stead since Snake took them down.


Also they were Navy instead of Army and specialized in faking terrorist attacks (before becoming terrorists), so they likely were more a parallel organization instead of replacements- they were shut down not long after the Foxhound incident in MGS1.

KingD19
Originally posted by dmills


I wonder if hfs can slice adamantium?

HFS's were the adamantium/ebony blade of the MGS universe, either by vibrating or heating up, they could supposedly cut anything. Whether they can cut adanamtium, I'm not sure, but they'd definitely do monster damage to anyone without a skeleton.

And yeah Q, you have a point.

dmills
Originally posted by KingD19
Yeah, he was one of the newest generation Gene-Soldiers; nano machines and intensive experimental gene therapy. Despite his suckiness, Raiden was actually a pretty good fighter before he became a ninja....but after that; that's when he became an uber l88t badass. laughing out loud Peeps were just mad that -outside of the first quarter of the game- Snake played a support role. Oh, and all of that weird shyte at the end.

Q99
MGS2 was a troll; that it was a manipulation of data to deceive people was even one of the meta points of the game smile

KingD19
Hideo Kojima is a genius man...he kept you confused as hell until the very end.

dmills
Confused until the end? Man I'm still confused about MGS2 and it's been nearly ten years since I beat it.

It was like the final act of Matrix Reloaded spliced with They Live lol!

KingD19
The only way to fully understand it...is kinda expensive and time consuming now, but you gotta start at the beginning, and beat every game in sequential order....then you gotta listen real careful to the cutscenes. And then after you get done with all that......gon Metal Gear Wikia and read up on it. I doubt anyone truly understands MGS from just playing the game...it's too much of a masterpiece for that.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by KingD19
Fortune would be an absolute monster, with her rail gun and her protection ability(which she showed after Ocelot deactivated her uknown gizmo) fortune is like a better version of judomaster....with a rail gun

nades, bullets, and missiles all either bend around her or become duds in her presence

dmills
I bought MGS on the psx but never finished it. Then 3-4 years later I got MGS2 and beat it. Then I got the twin snakes remake for Gamecube, but never finished it lol! I skipped Snake eater.

KingD19
Originally posted by psycho gundam
fortune is like a better version of judomaster....with a rail gun

nades, bullets, and missiles all either bend around her or become duds in her presence

Basically, and even though her power was eventually revealed to be an electromagnetic defense generator or something, she actually had powers when she deflected that missile on her own...meaning that she is indeed, a beast. No idea how her powers handles melee combat though.


Originally posted by dmills
I bought MGS on the psx but never finished it. Then 3-4 years later I got MGS2 and beat it. Then I got the twin snakes remake for Gamecube, but never finished it lol! I skipped Snake eater.

How did you skip MGS/Twin Snakes? That's one of the most classic and important ones, lol.

And Snake Eater was awesome, Colonel Volgin and the Cobra Unit were legendary.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by dmills
I bought MGS on the psx but never finished it. Then 3-4 years later I got MGS2 and beat it. Then I got the twin snakes remake for Gamecube, but never finished it lol! I skipped Snake eater. blasphemy

SamZED
Originally posted by KingD19

How did you skip MGS/Twin Snakes? That's one of the most classic and important ones, lol.

And Snake Eater was awesome, Colonel Volgin and the Cobra Unit were legendary. Yeah, Volgin would probably oneshot some of the people on the other team, he punched right through Shagohod's armor.

But man, was he a perv.. Nothing like grabbing your employees by the balls to say "Hello". sick Gotta be the only time Snake falied to disguise himself on enemy's base...

dmills
Originally posted by KingD19
Basically, and even though her power was eventually revealed to be an electromagnetic defense generator or something, she actually had powers when she deflected that missile on her own...meaning that she is indeed, a beast. No idea how her powers handles melee combat though.




How did you skip MGS/Twin Snakes? That's one of the most classic and important ones, lol.

And Snake Eater was awesome, Colonel Volgin and the Cobra Unit were legendary. IIRC MGS2 Was released prior to Twin Snakes. MGS:TS was released as a bone toss to gamecube owners that were complaining about Kojima dissing Nintendo.

KingD19
Originally posted by SamZED
Yeah, Volgin would probably oneshot some of the people on the other team, he punched right through Shagohod's armor.

But man, was he a perv.. Nothing like grabbing your employees by the balls to say "Hello". sick Gotta be the only time Snake falied to disguise himself on enemy's base...

Yeah....his powers were crazy...and he was more than a perv. He was a sado-masochist, and Ivan(Russian Raiden) was his plaything. How long did they have to know each other that he could readily identify his hang down with a passing squeeze?


Originally posted by dmills
IIRC MGS2 Was released prior to Twin Snakes. MGS:TS was released as a bone toss to gamecube owners that were complaining about Kojima dissing Nintendo.

Yeah, after the Nintendo/Famicon releases, it was

Metal Gear Solid(PS1)
MGS 2: Sons of Liberty(PS2)
MGS: Snaker Eater(PS2)
Twin Snakes(Gamecube)
etc...

It was a bone toss, but it's essentially Metal Gear with enhanced graphics and a bunch of extras.

SamZED
Originally posted by KingD19
Yeah....his powers were crazy...and he was more than a perv. He was a sado-masochist, and Ivan(Russian Raiden) was his plaything. How long did they have to know each other that he could readily identify his hang down with a passing squeeze?

Poor Riden. He didnt deserve such horrible treatment in his past life. laughing

KingD19
It's what the fan's wanted man, he got all his due though in MGS4, and now you get to play his awesomeness in Rising.

dmills
Originally posted by KingD19
Yeah....his powers were crazy...and he was more than a perv. He was a sado-masochist, and Ivan(Russian Raiden) was his plaything. How long did they have to know each other that he could readily identify his hang down with a passing squeeze?




Yeah, after the Nintendo/Famicon releases, it was

Metal Gear Solid(PS1)
MGS 2: Sons of Liberty(PS2)
MGS: Snaker Eater(PS2)
Twin Snakes(Gamecube)
etc...

It was a bone toss, but it's essentially Metal Gear with enhanced graphics and a bunch of extras. I assume that twin snakes is considered the canon version?

KingD19
Basically yeah, Twin Snakes was what Kojima wanted to do at first, but he was limited with the PS1...obviously he was limited with the gamecube too, but nowhere near as much as PS1.

dmills
Believe it or not the GC delivered some of my favorite all time gaming experiences. The Metriod Primes, Viewtiful Joe and of course, the greatest game of all time, Resident Evil 4.

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