Carnage & Venom Vs The Gorgon & Daken

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Prep-Man
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/394/77853-81384-carnage_large.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/7/71627/1348907-venom_vs_spiderman_by_pnutink_large.jpg

vs

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/5344/1168718-gorgon_01_large.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/77/176056-107116-daken_large.jpg

KingD19
Does Gorgon get Grasscutter/Godcutter(Can't remember which is his), does Daken get his Muramasa Claws?

Prep-Man
Originally posted by KingD19
Does Gorgon get Grasscutter/Godcutter(Can't remember which is his), does Daken get his Muramasa Claws?

Whichever is standard.

BTW, whatever happened to Gorgon? Is he still appearing in Secret Warriors?

KingD19
Originally posted by Prep-Man
Whichever is standard.

BTW, whatever happened to Gorgon? Is he still appearing in Secret Warriors?

Well the Muramasa Claws were standard for a pretty long while; up until Logan defeated Romulus and cut them out of Daken.

And yeah, Gorgon's still around, I figure they're just waiting till he can have a rematch with Stonewall. Oh, and his Cutter sword is standard.... which means that if either he or Daken land a clean hit, it's not healing. and it's cutting through the symbiote, to the host.

Prep-Man
Originally posted by KingD19
Well the Muramasa Claws were standard for a pretty long while; up until Logan defeated Romulus and cut them out of Daken.

And yeah, Gorgon's still around, I figure they're just waiting till he can have a rematch with Stonewall. Oh, and his Cutter sword is standard.... which means that if either he or Daken land a clean hit, it's not healing. and it's cutting through the symbiote, to the host.

Did he lose to Stonewall? Isn't Stonewall a brick of some sort?

KingD19
Originally posted by Prep-Man
Did he lose to Stonewall? Isn't Stonewall a brick of some sort?

Yeah, when the Warriors went to HYDRA's staging island, Stonewall and Yo-Yo were fighting him. He lopped off both her arms at the elbow, then Stonewall got pissed.

At first everyone thought he was just strong, then he turned into stone or some type of metal, grew like 20 feet tall, and started slapping Gorgon around like he owed him money.

Turns out Crusher Creel/Absorbing Man is Stonewall's dad, and he seemed to have the same powers as his old man.

Long story short, by the time the Warriors left, Stonewall had embarassed Gorgon, and he was super pissed.

Prep-Man
Didn't Gorgon try and turn him into stone? I thought Gorgon was super fast.

KingD19
Originally posted by Prep-Man
Didn't Gorgon try and turn him into stone? I thought Gorgon was super fast.

Can't remember if he tried to turn him to Stone or not, but if he did, it obviously didn't work, lol.

And yeah, he is super fast, but when you're 20 feet tall, it doesn't really matter.

Tha C-Master
Team one. Daken is the weak link.

Uriel005
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Team one. Daken is the weak link.

agreed Dakens pheromones do nothing to symbiotes which would have been his saving grace.

KingD19
If he's got the Muramasa Claws, then he's a very real threat to them.

Uriel005
Originally posted by KingD19
If he's got the Muramasa Claws, then he's a very real threat to them.
You said they got removed and OP said standard so standard gear for daken now doesn't include Muramasa shard blades.

753
Originally posted by Uriel005
agreed Dakens pheromones do nothing to symbiotes which would have been his saving grace. yes they do. daken repeatedly manipulated gargan with them during dark avengers.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Uriel005
agreed Dakens pheromones do nothing to symbiotes which would have been his saving grace.

Wrong. They do.

And Gorgon never lost to Stonewall.

KingD19
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Wrong. They do.

And Gorgon never lost to Stonewall.

He never lost, but he certainly wasn't winning when the Secret Warriors. That's why he wanted so bad to keep fighting, we both know if he was in control of the fight when they retreated, he wouldn't have been so insistent on continuing the fight.

Kinasin
Team 1.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by KingD19
He never lost, but he certainly wasn't winning when the Secret Warriors. That's why he wanted so bad to keep fighting, we both know if he was in control of the fight when they retreated, he wouldn't have been so insistent on continuing the fight.

You're correct.

guy222
T 1

StiltmanFTW
Gorgon turns them to stone and cuts them in halves like he did with Leviathan guys recently.

KingD19
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Gorgon turns them to stone and cuts them in halves like he did with Leviathan guys recently.

You're correct.

guy222
Cletus isn't dead

http://s2d3.turboimagehost.com/t/5954307_Carnage_03_023.jpg

Parmaniac
yes YES OH YES!!!!

And Doppelganger is also alive and it seems he's immortal har har har

inimalist
Originally posted by Parmaniac
yes YES OH YES!!!!

And Doppelganger is also alive and it seems he's immortal har har har

part of me rejoices for a reprise of Maximum Carnage

part of me shudders at the 2 page splash garbage that will come from it

and ya, from what you guys talk, Venom & Carnage are going to have their hands full with Gorgon. I don't see them losing to Wolvie jr though... he is the weak link. T2, 55/100

Parmaniac
Originally posted by inimalist
part of me rejoices for a reprise of Maximum Carnage

part of me shudders at the 2 page splash garbage that will come from it It had weak parts and was a bit too long (which pretty much caused the weak parts) and I was completely annoyed of HOW they took down the Carnage Family (Love Rays FTW) but besides that I REALLY liked the event, a lot of cool (dark) heroes (Venom, Morbius (who was drawn amazingly imo in that event), Nightwatch, Cloak etc) and besides the killing spree it was about Spidey and Venom overcoming their diffrences and team up to defeat the greater evil, something I like in general if it happens.

inimalist
Originally posted by Parmaniac
It had weak parts and was a bit too long (which pretty much caused the weak parts) and I was completely annoyed of HOW they took down the Carnage Family (Love Rays FTW) but besides that I REALLY liked the event, a lot of cool (dark) heroes (Venom, Morbius (who was drawn amazingly imo in that event), Nightwatch, Cloak etc) and besides the killing spree it was about Spidey and Venom overcoming their diffrences and team up to defeat the greater evil, something I like in general if it happens.

what issues did it run in, thats something I would love to pick up

Parmaniac
Chapter I - Spider-Man Unlimited #1 - "Carnage Rising!"
Chapter II - Web of Spider-Man #101 - "Dark Light"
Chapter III - The Amazing Spider-Man #378 - "Demons on Broadway"
Chapter IV - Spider-Man #35 - "Team Venom"
Chapter V - Spectacular Spider-Man #201 - "Over The Line!"
Chapter VI - Web of Spider-Man #102 - "Sinking Fast"
Chapter VII - The Amazing Spider-Man #379 - "The Gathering Storm"
Chapter VIII - Spider-Man #36 - "Hate is in the Air"
Chapter IX - Spectacular Spider-Man #202 - "The Turning Point"
Chapter X - Web of Spider-Man #103 - "Sin City"
Chapter XI - The Amazing Spider-Man #380 - "Soldiers of Hope"
Chapter XII - Spider-Man #37 - "The Light!"
Chapter XIII - Spectacular Spider-Man #203 - "War of the Heart!"
Chapter XIV - Spider-Man Unlimited #2 - "The Hatred, The Horror & The Hero!"

In 1 or 2 issues the art pretty much sucks but the art of chapter 14 is one of my absolute favorites.

Juk3n
Originally posted by Prep-Man
I thought Gorgon was super fast. Low showing , bad writing, either or really.

King Castle
Originally posted by guy222
Cletus isn't dead

http://s2d3.turboimagehost.com/t/5954307_Carnage_03_023.jpg but he is missing his junk, i wouldnt want to live if i were him.

inimalist
Originally posted by Parmaniac
Chapter I - Spider-Man Unlimited #1 - "Carnage Rising!"
Chapter II - Web of Spider-Man #101 - "Dark Light"
Chapter III - The Amazing Spider-Man #378 - "Demons on Broadway"
Chapter IV - Spider-Man #35 - "Team Venom"
Chapter V - Spectacular Spider-Man #201 - "Over The Line!"
Chapter VI - Web of Spider-Man #102 - "Sinking Fast"
Chapter VII - The Amazing Spider-Man #379 - "The Gathering Storm"
Chapter VIII - Spider-Man #36 - "Hate is in the Air"
Chapter IX - Spectacular Spider-Man #202 - "The Turning Point"
Chapter X - Web of Spider-Man #103 - "Sin City"
Chapter XI - The Amazing Spider-Man #380 - "Soldiers of Hope"
Chapter XII - Spider-Man #37 - "The Light!"
Chapter XIII - Spectacular Spider-Man #203 - "War of the Heart!"
Chapter XIV - Spider-Man Unlimited #2 - "The Hatred, The Horror & The Hero!"

In 1 or 2 issues the art pretty much sucks but the art of chapter 14 is one of my absolute favorites.

smile

I agree about the art. That is how I will always envision venom/carnage

SamZED
Team 1.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by SamZED
Team 1.

You've got no proof stone stare is not going to work.

And they're vulnerable to pheromones and pressure points, too.

SamZED
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
You've got no proof stone stare is not going to work.

And they're vulnerable to pheromones and pressure points, too. Have no reason to believe it will tbh. If a thin eyelid protects from it dont see a reason why inches of symbiotic goo covering their faces wont. Pressure points wont work either, symbiotes would just absorb the impact. And using pheromones is out of Daken's CIS. He barely uses them in fights at all these days. While symbiotes got crazy durability, healing, dozens of razorsharp-faster-than-bullets tendrils and spider-man level speed and reflexes. I go with team 1.

SamZED
Originally posted by guy222
Cletus isn't dead

http://s2d3.turboimagehost.com/t/5954307_Carnage_03_023.jpg Spoiled it for me.sad

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by SamZED
Have no reason to believe it will tbh. If a thin eyelid protects from it dont see a reason why inches of symbiotic goo covering their faces wont. Pressure points wont work either, symbiotes would just absorb the impact. And using pheromones is out of Daken's CIS. He barely uses them in fights at all these days. While symbiotes got crazy durability, healing, dozens of razorsharp-faster-than-bullets tendrils and spider-man level speed and reflexes. I go with team 1.

Then the symbiote will be turned to stone, with the host trapped inside...

They worked before.

lulz wut? He uses them often enough.

"Spiderman lv speed and reflexes" - originally yes, now they are just a stinking goo that moves at the speed of your average brick uhuh


--
Honestly, you're a bit of a fanboy. These aren't the nineties, man. Symbiotes suck.

Parmaniac
Originally posted by SamZED
Spoiled it for me.sad I'm actually suprised cause it was said the issues get released each 2 months.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Then the symbiote will be turned to stone, with the host trapped inside... Perfect strategy they're save then biscuits

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Parmaniac
Perfect strategy they're save then biscuits

laughing out loud

SamZED
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Then the symbiote will be turned to stone, with the host trapped inside...

They worked before.

lulz wut? He uses them often enough.


Well, normally takes an eye contact. Symbiotes do not really have eyes.. or more like their eyes are made of the same goo the rest of their.. erm.. bodies made off.

Pressure points? When? Maybe on Gargan but he's a loser everything that doesnt work on oldschool Venom and Carnage works on Gargan. Gargan was hurt when Namor and Spider-man ripped his toungue off and Ms Marvel managed to break the bond between him and the symbiote by pulling him hard enough.

Heck I doubt the pheromones would work. They're chemicals, right? And symbiotes were shown to be immune to chemicals, toxins etc. But I wont insist as noone ever tried that on Brock before. Just saying that things that worked on Gargan might not work on the real Venom.

When was the last time he used them in a fihgt? Against Spider-man? He uses them like once out of 15 times he fights.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW

"Spiderman lv speed and reflexes" - originally yes, now they are just a stinking goo that moves at the speed of your average brick uhuh


--
Honestly, you're a bit of a fanboy. These aren't the nineties, man. Symbiotes suck.
You made a mortal enemy today, sir. uhuh


Originally posted by Parmaniac
I'm actually suprised cause it was said the issues get released each 2 months.
Would be cool to see Cassidy as Carnage again.

Parmaniac
Pretty sure he will, amped of course cause of the bionic legs.

How does it taste Stilt? One of Spideys villains gets another amp biscuits want some salt with that?

SamZED
Originally posted by Parmaniac
Pretty sure he will, amped of course cause of the bionic legs.

How does it taste Stilt? One of Spideys villains gets another amp biscuits want some salt with that? Here's the salt. Wolverine and Spider-man are already good buddies. Logan speaks highly of Parker and by the end of AS&W they're probably gonna be best firends. evil face

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by SamZED
Well, normally takes an eye contact. Symbiotes do not really have eyes.. or more like their eyes are made of the same goo the rest of their.. erm.. bodies made off.

Pressure points? When? Maybe on Gargan but he's a loser everything that doesnt work on oldschool Venom and Carnage works on Gargan. Gargan was hurt when Namor and Spider-man ripped his toungue off and Ms Marvel managed to break the bond between him and the symbiote by pulling him hard enough.

Heck I doubt the pheromones would work. They're chemicals, right? And symbiotes were shown to be immune to chemicals, toxins etc. But I wont insist as noone ever tried that on Brock before. Just saying that things that worked on Gargan might not work on the real Venom.

When was the last time he used them in a fihgt? Against Spider-man? He uses them like once out of 15 times he fights.


You made a mortal enemy today, sir. uhuh


Would be cool to see Cassidy as Carnage again.

Leviathan monsters were affected by it. Just saying.

Daken/Gargan and Daredevil/Venom instances.

They did and you can't just make an imaginary immunity now. Nate was kinda impressed by Daken's pheromones.

I think he used them against the FF recently. You need to exclude the instances written by writers that have no clue about his powerset and when he loses a fight on purpose. Also, you need to consider that it doesn't need to stated on panel every single time he uses them.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
Pretty sure he will, amped of course cause of the bionic legs.

How does it taste Stilt? One of Spideys villains gets another amp biscuits want some salt with that?

Adamantiumless Wolverine went toe to toe with him, so it seems only fair he gets these bionic legs now... stick out tongue

Parmaniac
They're made out of Carnamantium it's like adamantium just deadlier.

SamZED
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Leviathan monsters were affected by it. Just saying.

Daken/Gargan and Daredevil/Venom instances.

They did and you can't just make an imaginary immunity now. Nate was kinda impressed by Daken's pheromones.

I think he used them against the FF recently. You need to exclude the instances written by writers that have no clue about his powerset and when he loses a fight on purpose. Also, you need to consider that it doesn't need to stated on panel every single time he uses them.


Leviathan mosters arent Brock. cool

Well, like with pheromones you gotta exclude instances written by people tha have no clue about his powerset. DD fight was PIS. Venom pwned him within a secon in another book. Symbiotes were stated multiple times to absorb all kinds of physical attacks. There's a limit ofcourse, but would take a lot more than the strength team 2 got to hurt the hosts.

Agreed. But what he's gonna do with them exactly IF he desides to use them at all is still a question.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by SamZED
Leviathan mosters arent Brock. cool

Well, like with pheromones you gotta exclude instances written by people tha have no clue about his powerset. DD fight was PIS. Venom pwned him within a secon in another book. Symbiotes were stated multiple times to absorb all kinds of physical attacks. There's a limit ofcourse, but would take a lot more than the strength team 2 got to hurt the hosts.

Agreed. But what he's gonna do with them exactly IF he desides to use them at all is still a question.

Almost everyone in comics is vulnerable to pressure points, though. Even Colossus. We got two examples of Venom being vulnerable to them and not a single one of him showing any resistance.

Buy enough time for Gorgon to chop them up with Grasscutter? Not that he would need Daken's help anyway... shifty

King Castle
Stiltman makes a good argument. i am siding with him

Parmaniac
Guys don't let me start with the phantom bones. sneer

SamZED
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Almost everyone in comics is vulnerable to pressure points, though. Even Colossus. We got two examples of Venom being vulnerable to them and not a single one of him showing any resistance.

Buy enough time for Gorgon to chop them up with Grasscutter? Not that he would need Daken's help anyway... shifty Gargan doesnt count. Remember what happened to Logan when he cut Brock's tongue off? Eddie laughed and punched him across the room into a wall. Gargan cried like a b!tch when he got his ripped off. So we have one example from poorly written story and many statements and displays of symbiote absorbing all physical attacks. Healing factor helps too.

Forgot about the Grasscutter. Yeah that should do it.

King Castle
Originally posted by SamZED


Forgot about the Grasscutter. Yeah that should do it. so you concede? smokin'

Parmaniac
I warn you to do so Sam

SamZED
Originally posted by King Castle
so you concede? smokin' I said it should work. IF he gets the chance to use it. smokin'



Venom will grab it and shove it up Daken ass.. which Daken is gonna enjoy probably... confused

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by SamZED
Gargan doesnt count. Remember what happened to Logan when he cut Brock's tongue off? Eddie laughed and punched him across the room into a wall. Gargan cried like a b!tch when he got his ripped off. So we have one example from poorly written story and many statements and displays of symbiote absorbing all physical attacks. Healing factor helps too.

Forgot about the Grasscutter. Yeah that should do it.

Oh, he does count... Gargan = Venom + Carnage + Venom clone + Scorpion wink

I don't remember that, not sure if I read it. Webs and Claws again?

When did he cry like a b!tch? In Siege he wasn't bothered much by it, was he? Well, he did scream I think...

And when Namor hit him... well, that was NAMOR.

Parmaniac
Are you that desperate that you really start to defend Gargan now?

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Parmaniac
Are you that desperate that you really start to defend Gargan now?

You believe Brock Venom would fare better against Namor the Sub-Mariner? no expression

Dum Dum Dugan
Gargan did not do all that bad against Colossus either.......perhaps he gets a boost from people named peter.

Parmaniac
concession accepted

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Gargan did not do all that bad against Colossus either.......perhaps he gets a boost from people named peter.

laughing

Parmaniac
The funny thing is now I can't remember a single stupid instance including Gargan...

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Parmaniac
The funny thing is now I can't remember a single stupid instance including Gargan...

That's because Scarlet Witch said: "No more jobbing, Gargan."

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