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Who wins.

Come on folks who takes this?????

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shang-Chi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lizard_%28comics%29

lizard murders him

Shang chi kicks his ass
I'm a bit iffy on current Lizard though hasn't he gotten a powerup or something?

He's able to inflict an animalistic psychic fear attack or something. I don't think that would effect Shang Chi though because he is a master of meditation and also has stopped poison from effecting him with his mind and broke through phoenix's psychic barrier that was hiding her and scot by detecting their presence.

Lizard is a class 10 beast with spider-man's lvl of speed, sharp claws, healing factor and telepathy. Shang is awesome but imo Lizard is too much..

if this fight will happen in comics 100% 10/10 shang chi will win

shang chi is too skilled for someone like lizard he will beat him down

right now i am playing "Spider-man : shattered dimensions" and its the best spider-man game out there you get to fight with deadpool kraven scorpion juggernaut and whats not

Lizard should win... but in the comics he got owned by Falcon, right?

Seems that expert MAs are not only > Spider-Man, but also > Spidey villains

Lizard

Lizard destroys Shang Chi in a forum battle.

Shang one shots him

Lizard 10/10

Lizard

Remember Batman putting down Hush Killer Croc with sonics?


Shang-Chi uses his chi-scream and Lizard's out

this 10/10, destroying him crap is complete nonenses. Shang-chi by no means gets destroyed. Shang-chi can amp his stats well within range to compete with lizard.

Current Lizard Mindrapes the fool!

Originally posted by jalek moye
Current Lizard Mindrapes the fool!
Originally posted by Kinasin
He's able to inflict an animalistic psychic fear attack or something. I don't think that would effect Shang Chi though because he is a master of meditation and also has stopped poison from effecting him with his mind and broke through phoenix's psychic barrier that was hiding her and scot by detecting their presence.
How?

because he turns ur brain into a lizard because of genetic duh

Originally posted by jalek moye
because he turns ur brain into a lizard because of genetic duh
right.....

Originally posted by Kinasin
How?

Some sort of telepathy to stimulate the "reptile" portion of the brain. He always had a limited telepathic connection to reptiles, but it was expanded.

Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
Some sort of telepathy to stimulate the "reptile" portion of the brain. He always had a limited telepathic connection to reptiles, but it was expanded.

No, I know that, I was saying how is that gonna effect Shang Chi.......
Originally posted by Kinasin
He's able to inflict an animalistic psychic fear attack or something. I don't think that would effect Shang Chi though because he is a master of meditation and also has stopped poison from effecting him with his mind and broke through phoenix's psychic barrier that was hiding her and scot by detecting their presence.

Originally posted by Kinasin
No, I know that, I was saying how is that gonna effect Shang Chi.......

I don't see how any of those examples show that he's not going to be affected by it.

Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
I don't see how any of those examples show that he's not going to be affected by it.
Because it shows he has extreme mental toughness.

Originally posted by Kinasin
Because it shows he has extreme mental toughness.

That's not equivalent to telepathic immunity or resistance to direct telepathy.

Meditation allows you to have greater control of your mind/body hence allowing you to throw up mental barriers to blockade from low quality psychic attacks like the lizards. Shin Chi is a grand master of meditation and concentration.

Shang chi has shown the ability to shield his mind and even sense some one trying to enter or scan it. but, not sure if that should allow him to resist having his lizard brain agitated.

but, i dont think it matters b/c all lizard would be doing is making shang chi blood lusted whcih may not be a good idea.

Originally posted by King Castle
Shang chi has shown the ability to shield his mind and even sense some one trying to enter or scan it. but, not sure if that should allow him to resist having his lizard brain agitated.

but, i dont think it matters b/c all lizard would be doing is making shang chi blood lusted whcih may not be a good idea.

It makes people give in to their primal instincts. That ranges across the entire spectrum of emotions.

Originally posted by King Castle
Shang chi has shown the ability to shield his mind and even sense some one trying to enter or scan it. but, not sure if that should allow him to resist having his lizard brain agitated.

but, i dont think it matters b/c all lizard would be doing is making shang chi blood lusted whcih may not be a good idea. he could make him panic and flee like spider-man did

yeh... but, that's in spiderman's nature and personality.. not the 1st time he has run away from battle..

not hard imo to get the fight or flight instinct to kick in for him

Has nothing to do with his personality. Spider-man doesnt run away from battles unless he's going for prep against too powerfull foe and even that if there's no imidiate danger to people.

Lizard activates primal instincts, saving your life is one of them. Dont see why it wont work on Shang.

So Lizard initiates the fight or flight instinct?

Or he selectively chooses which one you do?

Originally posted by SamZED
Has nothing to do with his personality. Spider-man doesnt run away from battles unless he's going for prep against too powerfull foe and even that if there's no imidiate danger to people.

Lizard activates primal instincts, saving your life is one of them. Dont see why it wont work on Shang.
Spiderman isn't a grandmaster of meditation like Shang who's mental defenses are in a whole nother league compared to spidy's.

Originally posted by Mindset
So Lizard initiates the fight or flight instinct?

Or he selectively chooses which one you do? It pretty much turned everyone in NY into idiots with lizard brains. People would run if there's a threat to their lives and only fight each other over "females". Not sure if its selective but they wouldnt attack Lizard himself if that's what you're wondering.

Originally posted by Kinasin
Spiderman isn't a grandmaster of meditation like Shang who's mental defenses are in a whole nother league compared to spidy's. Can think of like 10 times when Spider-man broke free from mind control. But that's not the point, meditation has nothing to do with it, it's a genetics thing, you cant beat that with your power of will or concentration.

Man Lizard gets no respect. I can kind of see why, but they need to bring him to light.

Originally posted by SamZED
It pretty much turned everyone in NY into idiots with lizard brains. People would run if there's a threat to their lives and only fight each other over "females". Not sure if its selective but they wouldnt attack Lizard himself if that's what you're wondering.

Can think of like 10 times when Spider-man broke free from mind control. But that's not the point, meditation has nothing to do with it, it's a genetics thing, you cant beat that with your power of will or concentration.
it's a small part of the brain that deals with that lizard stuff so I would say that the human majority of the brain can over come it and Shang Chi especially would overcome it.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Man Lizard gets no respect. I can kind of see why, but they need to bring him to light.

What are you talking about? He has a respect thread here and everyone knows he's one of Parker's tougher foes.

Originally posted by Kinasin
it's a small part of the brain that deals with that lizard stuff so I would say that the human majority of the brain can over come it and Shang Chi especially would overcome it.

It's plausible, but you have to understand... even characters with legitimate TP resistance feats get mindraped from time to time.

It'd be easier to start a new thread with an added stipulation, banned telepathy that is. Or ask a mod to edit the OP.

Originally posted by Kinasin
it's a small part of the brain that deals with that lizard stuff so I would say that the human majority of the brain can over come it and Shang Chi especially would overcome it. Wouldnt he have to alter his genetic code to overcome that? A thing I dont see him do with mere meditation. Besides even if he can fight it it definitely will be a serious distraction and with Lizard a small distraction = instant death. I agree with Stilt, itd be a much more interesting fight if we bann this power. Lizard is a pretty tough mf without any upgrades.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
What are you talking about? He has a respect thread here and everyone knows he's one of Parker's tougher foes.


Even my grandma has a respect thread. I just think people see him as a mindless guy who just slashes... he has gotten a jump and he is really tougher (not so much before IMO) that's what I meant.

Originally posted by SamZED
It pretty much turned everyone in NY into idiots with lizard brains. People would run if there's a threat to their lives and only fight each other over "females". Not sure if its selective but they wouldnt attack Lizard himself if that's what you're wondering.

Can think of like 10 times when Spider-man broke free from mind control. But that's not the point, meditation has nothing to do with it, it's a genetics thing, you cant beat that with your power of will or concentration. Well, of course they wouldn't fight Lizard. It seems like he just amplifies this instinct in people, I can't remember if I actually read this comic or not, is it recent?

Originally posted by SamZED
It pretty much turned everyone in NY into idiots with lizard brains. People would run if there's a threat to their lives and only fight each other over "females". Not sure if its selective but they wouldnt attack Lizard himself if that's what you're wondering.

Can think of like 10 times when Spider-man broke free from mind control. But that's not the point, meditation has nothing to do with it, it's a genetics thing, you cant beat that with your power of will or concentration.


Doom could

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Doom could based on?

Doom being able to do it.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Even my grandma has a respect thread. Link?

Originally posted by Starscream M
based on? Originally posted by Mindset
Doom being able to do it.

Originally posted by Mindset
Well, of course they wouldn't fight Lizard. It seems like he just amplifies this instinct in people, I can't remember if I actually read this comic or not, is it recent? Yeah, 4-5 ASM issues ago. Can't say its a good read.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Doom could Doom could do anything and anyone.. except Squirrel Girl. But he's working on it...

Originally posted by Parmaniac
Link? UMrWrCSP9Cw

ZLrT66YmTls

wtf is wrong with people? lizard during his entire career was taken out by black cat , kraven the hunter , and was injured badly by freakin vermin all physically, lizard doesnt know a crap about fighting he is just a vicious animal that will try to cut and slice those kind of characters never win against skilled fighters, shang chi is one of the best fighters in marvel he is as skilled as iron fist if not a little bit more he is not as powerful as iron fist but skill wise he is at least his equal and saying he will lose to some huge lizard that gets his ass kicked by people with half the skills shang has? wtf is wrong with you? or is it because shang is asian you racist f^cks? anyway shang chi wins way too skilled will avoid anything lizard will try to throw at him and beat him with 1 deadly strike to the nerves

Originally posted by paradisu
wtf is wrong with people? lizard during his entire career was taken out by black cat , kraven the hunter , and was injured badly by freakin vermin all physically, lizard doesnt know a crap about fighting he is just a vicious animal that will try to cut and slice those kind of characters never win against skilled fighters, shang chi is one of the best fighters in marvel he is as skilled as iron fist if not a little bit more he is not as powerful as iron fist but skill wise he is at least his equal and saying he will lose to some huge lizard that gets his ass kicked by people with half the skills shang has? wtf is wrong with you? or is it because shang is asian you racist f^cks? anyway shang chi wins way too skilled will avoid anything lizard will try to throw at him and beat him with 1 deadly strike to the nerves

Yeah, his nerve strikes will definitely KO someone with bullet-proof skin. Yeah, he'll definitely beat someone who can contend with Spider-Man all day in speed and strength.

Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
Yeah, his nerve strikes will definitely KO someone with bullet-proof skin. Yeah, he'll definitely beat someone who can contend with Spider-Man all day in speed and strength.


Shang-chi has hung with spiderman and had not trouble keeping up with his speed.

Yes he very well could nerve strike him, shang-chi can amp his strength well beyond beyond human levels.


I don't think you have very great knowledge of shang-chi. He can amp his abilities to superhuman levels through chi manipulation and can even uses range attacks with it.


also come on man it quite obvous that dude you quoted is both a sock and a troll.

Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
Yeah, his nerve strikes will definitely KO someone with bullet-proof skin. Yeah, he'll definitely beat someone who can contend with Spider-Man all day in speed and strength.



first of all if shang chi secret techniques were able to hurt the thing , man thing, and take out a robot with his bar hands then lizard is a joke to him, shang chi is far more skilled than spider-man and what he lacks in speed and strength he will achieve with skills because he may not have super human strength but dont forget he can chi amp his strikes and he broke a robot with his bare hands and hurt both thing and man thing with leathal strikes so your argument just went out of the window

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan


also come on man it quite obvous that dude you quoted is both a sock and a troll.

also its abovious that you cant spell obvious

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Shang-chi has hung with spiderman and had not trouble keeping up with his speed.

I doubt Spider-Man was going all-out. He almost never does so, which is exactly why trained martial arts are able to hit him in the first place.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Yes he very well could nerve strike him, shang-chi can amp his strength well beyond beyond human levels.

If Spider-Man hurt his fists punching Lizard, then he would have to amp far beyond peak-human to anything.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
I don't think you have very great knowledge of shang-chi. He can amp his abilities to superhuman levels through chi manipulation and can even uses range attacks with it.

I don't think Shang-Chi is Iron Fist, but you seem to have the two confused.

Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
I doubt Spider-Man was going all-out. He almost never does so, which is exactly why trained martial arts are able to hit him in the first place.



If Spider-Man hurt his fists punching Lizard, then he would have to amp far beyond peak-human to anything.



I don't think Shang-Chi is Iron Fist, but you seem to have the two confused.

ye ye spider-man never goes all out but it doesnt mean he is enjoying getting his ass kicked, if spider-man isnt going all out that means he pulls back his punches but he still can and should avoid being hit so getting hit got nothing to do with going all out or holding back because he still doesnt want to get hurt or hit

spider-man hurting his fists on lizard doesnt mean shit we are talking about shang chi here not the geeky spider-man that breaks his arms from falling off a building and getting his arm snapped by freakin jigsaw who is a peak human, shang chi doesnt use fists he is using techniques that meant to hurt super durable beings like he did to the thing , man thing, and a doombot so unless you think that lizard is more durable then all those better shut up

again you are dumb for not knowing the simple fact that shang chi can chi amp his punches and abilities as well

Originally posted by paradisu
first of all if shang chi secret techniques were able to hurt the thing , man thing, and take out a robot with his bare hands then lizard is a joke to him, shang chi is far more skilled than spider-man and what he lacks in speed and strength he will achieve with skills because he may not have super human strength but dont forget he can chi amp his strikes and he broke a robot with his bare hands and hurt both thing and man thing with leathal strikes so your argument just went out of the window

Which is irrelevant unless you specify which version of the Thing he hurt, because Grimm was not that impressive in his early years.

Nevermind, I found the scans. LOL at "hurt the Thing". He didn't do jack to him besides tip him off-balance.

Originally posted by paradisu
Man Thing

Again, irrelevant unless you specify which version of Man-Thing. His early appearances put him at Cap's level in terms of strength, and his durability is not amazing. It's just problematic to dismantle him because of his composition. Plus Thing and Man-Thing are much slower than the Lizard.

Originally posted by paradisu
and take out a robot with his bare hands

A Doom-Bot, which screwed up his hands badly.

Originally posted by paradisu
shang chi is far more skilled than spider-man and what he lacks in speed and strength he will achieve with skills

Spider-Man makes up for his lacking in H2H skills with his reflexes and speed. Everyone knows that. Kingpin has been able to catch and tag Spider-Man in the past, and that doesn't give him a ghost of a chance against Lizard either.

The fight between Spider-Man and Shang-Chi ended in a draw because Spider-Man stood still while the latter was flying towards him. Then they talked out their differences.

Originally posted by paradisu
ye ye spider-man never goes all out but it doesnt mean he is enjoying getting his ass kicked, if spider-man isnt going all out that means he pulls back his punches but he still can and should avoid being hit so getting hit got nothing to do with going all out or holding back because he still doesnt want to get hurt or hit

If Spider-Man wasn't holding back during that encounter, he would have KOed him in the first kick. Then we'd have eight less pages to read.

Originally posted by paradisu
spider-man hurting his fists on lizard doesnt mean shit we are talking about shang chi here not the geeky spider-man that breaks his arms from falling off a building and getting his arm snapped by freakin jigsaw who is a peak human, shang chi doesnt use fists he is using techniques that meant to hurt super durable beings like he did to the thing , man thing, and a doombot so unless you think that lizard is more durable then all those better shut up

See, you're thinking about Spider-Man jobbing durability-wise while I'm thinking about the Spider-Man who lifts trains and punches through concrete walls like it's nothing. The exact same Spider-Man who encountered Lizard in ASM #44 (already knowing how strong and durable he was), full-out slugs him in the face and feels like he fractured his knuckles while Lizard basically laughs it off.

Originally posted by paradisu
again you are dumb for not knowing the simple fact that shang chi can chi amp his punches and abilities as well

You claimed that Shang-Chi hurt the Thing instead of, you know, tripping him.

Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
Which is irrelevant unless you specify which version of the Thing he hurt, because Grimm was not that impressive in his early years.

Nevermind, I found the scans. LOL at "hurt the Thing". He didn't do jack to him besides tip him off-balance.



Again, irrelevant unless you specify which version of Man-Thing. His early appearances put him at Cap's level in terms of strength, and his durability is not amazing. It's just problematic to dismantle him because of his composition. Plus Thing and Man-Thing are much slower than the Lizard.



A Doom-Bot, which screwed up his hands badly.



Spider-Man makes up for his lacking in H2H skills with his reflexes and speed. Everyone knows that. Kingpin has been able to catch and tag Spider-Man in the past, and that doesn't give him a ghost of a chance against Lizard either.

The fight between Spider-Man and Shang-Chi ended in a draw because Spider-Man stood still while the latter was flying towards him. Then they talked out their differences.



If Spider-Man wasn't holding back during that encounter, he would have KOed him in the first kick. Then we'd have eight less pages to read.



See, you're thinking about Spider-Man jobbing durability-wise while I'm thinking about the Spider-Man who lifts trains and punches through concrete walls like it's nothing. The exact same Spider-Man who encountered Lizard in ASM #44 (already knowing how strong and durable he was), full-out slugs him in the face and feels like he fractured his knuckles while Lizard basically laughs it off.



You claimed that Shang-Chi hurt the Thing instead of, you know, tripping him.

first of all shang chi did hurt the thing with punches as thing was hurt and it was stated later you should read the actual damn thing instead of looking only at the pictures the thing commented and stated he couldnt believe he was hurt by a simple human , man thing and a doombot are more durable than lizard who got cut by freakin vermin so dont try to make some colossus out of lizard because he isnt that durable at all compared to the thing and a doombot so again you fail

i seewhat you are doing here you are trying to make it a shang chi vs spider-man thread and clame that lizard will fight just as spider-man first of all stop right there because lizard is no spider-man, lizard during his entire career was taken out several times by kraven the hunter with only hand 2 hand, by black cat again only hand 2 hand and by vermin who cut him and hurt him badly, only times lizard show something is when he fights spider-man and thats a PIS due to the fact he is his villian, as i stated before lizard is a huge lizard that doesnt have any skills no nothing he will just try to catch and bite or cut shang chi while shang chi is one of the best fighters marvel got to offer the mere fact that you think some vicious animal got a chance vs someone like shang chi show us that you are a serious moron shang chi will avoid everything lizard will try to do and will simple amp his fists with chi and beat the living hell out of lizard like he always does when fighting super durable oponnents

as i said before spider-man holding back is bullshit you cant use that argument every time you see him getting his ass kicked because holding back doesnt mean you are letting your oponnent hurt you, second of all unless the writer states in that particular arc that he is holding back you cant speculate and pull things out of your ass you cant say he is holding back every time he gets his ass handed to him, sure spider-man wasnt bloodlusted but so wasnt shang chi they just fought its not like shang chi was " ohhh you modafackin spider i will kill you" or some shit they were just fighting so again your argument is stupid

P.S spider-man does have a major problem with not only MA guys but with anyone he fights and thats due to the fact he is a pathetic nerd that gets his ass handed to him no matter what powers he got

lol

lizard wins

Originally posted by wasaki
first of all shang chi did hurt the thing with punches as thing was hurt

This is not mentioned in the actual scans. Shang-Chi is able to kick Grimm off of him and that is the only real move that hurts the Thing. It doesn't even hurt him as much as surprise him. His other blows are basically shrugged off. Feeling blows isn't the same as being hurt by them.

Originally posted by wasaki
lizard who got cut by freakin vermin

You're the last person who should be accusing others of saying things out-of-context. Lizard and Vermin were being controlled by the Rock of Life; Vermin ambushed Lizard, while the latter wanted to die until it remembered Billy and fought him off.

Originally posted by wasaki
so dont try to make some colossus out of lizard because he isnt that durable at all compared to the thing and a doombot so again you fail

Lizard is too durable for Shang-Chi, no matter what you try to say. The evidence is there in plain sight: taking blows from Spider-Man, small caliber ammunition bouncing off his skin, ripping through a city block to get to the surface. Shang-Chi nearly broke his hands destroying that Doom-Bot, so let's drop the "Shang-Chi can take on powerhouses with chi" act.

Originally posted by wasaki
i seewhat you are doing here you are trying to make it a shang chi vs spider-man thread

That started because someone else acted as if Shang-Chi's fight against Spider-Man could be wholly transfered to this fight. Just because he and Spider-Man fought to a draw doesn't mean he can win against Lizard, especially since Lizard beats Spider-Man more times than not.

Originally posted by wasaki
and clame that lizard will fight just as spider-man

Why the hell would Lizard fight like Spider-Man?

Originally posted by wasaki
lizard during his entire career was taken out several times by kraven the hunter with only hand 2 hand

You mean that guy who has superhuman stats and was possibly the greatest tracker and hunter of animals in the world? Who studied each of his opponents meticulously before he hunted them? Hmmm...

Originally posted by wasaki
by black cat again only hand 2 hand and by vermin who cut him and hurt him badly

Seems like all of Lizard's "low feats" come from the same arc. PIS, perhaps?

The dur is indeed strong in this one.

Originally posted by wasaki
only times lizard show something is when he fights spider-man and thats a PIS due to the fact he is his villian

So all his fights with his main opponent don't count but all his low showings with other opponents do count?

How disappointing.

Originally posted by wasaki
lizard is a huge lizard

Bonus points for getting something right.

Originally posted by wasaki
he will just try to catch and bite or cut shang chi while shang chi is one of the best fighters marvel got to offer

Because having reflexes x40 faster than the average human and a Spider-Sense has helped Spider-Man in the past, right? Oh wait, he still gets dominated more often than not.

Originally posted by wasaki
the mere fact that you think some vicious animal got a chance vs someone like shang chi show us that you are a serious moron shang chi will avoid everything lizard will try to do and will simple amp his fists with chi and beat the living hell out of lizard like he always does when fighting super durable oponnents

Because having reflexes x40 faster than the average human and a Spider-Sense has helped Spider-Man in the past, right? Oh wait, he still gets dominated more often than not.

Originally posted by wasaki
as i said before spider-man holding back is bullshit you cant use that argument every time you see him getting his ass kicked because holding back doesnt mean you are letting your oponnent hurt you, second of all unless the writer states in that particular arc that he is holding back you cant speculate and pull things out of your ass you cant say he is holding back every time he gets his ass handed to him, sure spider-man wasnt bloodlusted but so wasnt shang chi they just fought its not like shang chi was " ohhh you modafackin spider i will kill you" or some shit they were just fighting so again your argument is stupid

See, the funny thing is that Spider-Man holds back against Shang-Chi because he doesn't want to potentially kill someone with his superhuman strength; that match ended in a draw with both sides exchanging punches and kicks. Spider-Man doesn't hold back against the Lizard because he knows he's durable enough to tank his blows, yet he is consistently overwhelmed.

Unless you want to believe that Shang-Chi can tank full-out punches from a 10-tonner in the face multiple times without doing something special, I'm done explaining this.

Originally posted by wasaki
P.S spider-man does have a major problem with not only MA guys but with anyone he fights and thats due to the fact he is a pathetic nerd that gets his ass handed to him no matter what powers he got

And your last graceful argument is to put down Spider-Man.

Get the **** out of here.

Originally posted by wasaki


Man, I see no point in trying to convince you because I see your opinion comes from your hatred towards the character, so arguing wont get us anywhere, but I will take time to explain few things to anyone who's interested.


Spider-man holds back all the time even against people with super durability, let alone peak humans. That's not something JS "pulled out of his ass" Anyone who's read more than 2 Spider-man books know it as it's been stated on-panel dozens and dozens of times. And because he's holding back and pulling his punches making sure he doesnt seriously hurt anyone it holds his speed back as well. Also stated on-panel. And thats the only reason he sometimes has trouble with MA fighters.

Whenever he gets pissed (CIF off) and starts holding back LESS than usually (still not going all out) trained MA fighters with no super powers and abilities stand little chance against him. A few examples.

http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/8557/avengers2.th.jpg

http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/9651/if1z.th.jpg
http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/8683/if2s.th.jpg

http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/7255/kr1j.th.jpg
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/6821/kr2u.th.jpg

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/4448/tm1r.th.jpg
http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/7763/tm2g.th.jpg

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/4452/contestofchampionsii041.th.jpg

http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/2391/69786895.th.jpg

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/8905/amazingspiderman542014.th.jpg

As for Jigsaw, it was confirmed that was meant to be a class 70-100 character, if you dont trust me read NA, Spider-man later b!tchslapped real Jigsaw with zero efforts. And his hand is durable enough to shatter Ironman's armor. Hope that helps.

Do you have the Issue numbers of the Kraven and IF scans?

Sorry, man. Had the fights saved on my PC for a long time, cant remember what are the issue numbers.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
Do you have the Issue numbers of the Kraven and IF scans?
I can tell you that the IF fight does not end after that punch and is far far far longer then what was posted.

Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
I doubt Spider-Man was going all-out. He almost never does so, which is exactly why trained martial arts are able to hit him in the first place.

why does it matter if he was going all out? No it not. Him going all out has nothing to do with his speed. He holds bakc his strength in fear of killing humans, that has nothing to do with his speed. Also shang-chi was trying no harder then spiderman.


Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
If Spider-Man hurt his fists punching Lizard, then he would have to amp far beyond peak-human to anything.

shang-chi has amp his strength high enough to block and absorb 100 class punches.

also spidermna has punch and beaten lizard numerous times with out hurting his fist, dont give me that garbage.


Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
I don't think Shang-Chi is Iron Fist, but you seem to have the two confused.
You simply don't know shit about shang-chi. Dont be condecending to me, when you don't know shit about a character. Shang-chi has ability to amp his chi quite similar to IF. He simply lacks the backing of mystical energy. He prior to IF upgrades was actually the more versed with chi manipulation and was the first of the to, to uses it in range attack fashion. Chi can amp his speed and strength well beyond human standards.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
I can tell you that the IF fight does not end after that punch and is far far far longer then what was posted. That's true. But Spider-man was pretty much beating him the whole time.

Originally posted by SamZED
That's true. But Spider-man was pretty much beating him the whole time.
I disagree, it was pretty even fight the entire time. Spiderman even resorts to using a sign as a weapon at one point if not mistaken. It ends up as a draw as I recall with spiderman I believe (realizing he was in the wrong, which tends to be a common occurences when he fights other hero's)

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
I disagree, it was pretty even fight the entire time. Spiderman even resorts to using a sign as a weapon at one point if not mistaken. It ends up as a draw as I recall with spiderman I believe (realizing he was in the wrong, which tends to be a common occurences when he fights other hero's) That only happens if there's a good reason behind it, normally it's the heroes who attack him thinking he's a bad guy. That's what IF did when they first met. SM defeated him that time as well.

Ive read the fight recently, it was IF who had to resort to trickery and only tagged Spider-man once through the entire fight, and even that happened while SM was in midair too busy dodging some trap to react to the attack. He didnt use the sign as a weapon, he simply tossed IF in it. imo it was pretty onesided.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
I can tell you that the IF fight does not end after that punch and is far far far longer then what was posted.

Indeed.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
why does it matter if he was going all out? No it not. Him going all out has nothing to do with his speed. He holds bakc his strength in fear of killing humans, that has nothing to do with his speed. Also shang-chi was trying no harder then spiderman.

You notice that Spider-Man and Shang-Chi basically exchanged blows for that match, right? Do you really think that Shang-Chi would have even survived the first hit if Peter was applying all his strength behind that blow? Also, if you hold back in strength you will also hold back the speed of your punches. It's basic physics.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
shang-chi has amp his strength high enough to block and absorb 100 class punches.

You're completely wrong about that. He spread out the impact of the punch throughout his entire body. He didn't enhance his durability or his strength to accomplish that. Shang didn't walk away from that punch unscathed either: his whole body was bleeding internally, or at the very least his arms.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
also spidermna has punch and beaten lizard numerous times with out hurting his fist, dont give me that garbage.

When has Spider-Man punched Lizard into submission?

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
You simply don't know shit about shang-chi. Dont be condecending to me, when you don't know shit about a character. Shang-chi has ability to amp his chi quite similar to IF. He simply lacks the backing of mystical energy. He prior to IF upgrades was actually the more versed with chi manipulation and was the first of the to, to uses it in range attack fashion. Chi can amp his speed and strength well beyond human standards.

Stop getting pissy at a joke because your ego can't handle it.

That backing makes all the difference in this match. Iron Fist can hurt and defeat the Lizard because he has that great well of energy to draw from whenever he needs to fight a more dangerous opponent. After his upgrade there are many panels supporting the power he can channel. Just because Shang can do the same things doesn't mean he can defeat the Lizard. I can tell you how fast and how strong the Lizard can be, yet all I hear are these vague claims of "superhuman strength" and "chi manipulation". How strong/fast/durable can he get with his chi? What are his most impressive feats while doing so? Answer those questions.

I've seen the scans where Shang supposedly takes on high-class opponents, and they're all bunk/overhyped like crazy. He flips Thing with a kick, and now he can "hurt" Thing. He blocks one punch from Hiroim by distributing the force and hurts his body badly in the process, and now he can tank Class 100 blows all day long.

in a comic fight i see Shang pulling the win consistently....

also like to point out that reducing your strength of your blow does not necessarily hinder your speed or vice versa, its called control..

if you need real examples go track down and look at the MA reflex, speed, strength videos..

Originally posted by King Castle
in a comic fight i see Shang pulling the win consistently....

also like to point out that reducing your strength of your blow does not necessarily hinder your speed or vice versa, its called control..

if you need real examples go track down and look at the MA reflex, speed, strength videos..

Spider-Man is not a martial artist. He doesn't use rotational energy to enhance his strikes or anything of the sort consistently, although he has displayed similar knowledge while using the environment to his advantage.

regardless that spidey is not a MA's it doesnt take away from the fact that there is no evidence that his speed is reduced b/c of his conscious restriction of his strength the two do not always go hand in hand spiderman should and has demonstrated enough control to prove he can reflexively react and still hit with the required strength without effecting his speed.

care tor provide on panel evidence where spiderman states that his reduction of strength makes him slower or is it something you infer on him with no factual evidence both in science or in comics?

He's faster when he's not holding back that's for sure.

Originally posted by King Castle

care tor provide on panel evidence where spiderman states that his reduction of strength makes him slower or is it something you infer on him with no factual evidence both in science or in comics? http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/7479/whatifdcp0009.th.jpg

There are other examples, but this is the only one I can provide now.

Originally posted by King Castle
regardless that spidey is not a MA's it doesnt take away from the fact that there is no evidence that his speed is reduced b/c of his conscious restriction of his strength the two do not always go hand in hand spiderman should and has demonstrated enough control to prove he can reflexively react and still hit with the required strength without effecting his speed.

care tor provide on panel evidence where spiderman states that his reduction of strength makes him slower or is it something you infer on him with no factual evidence both in science or in comics?

I'm talking about the speed of his punches, not his movement speed.

Originally posted by SamZED
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/7479/whatifdcp0009.th.jpg

There are other examples, but this is the only one I can provide now. that is not what i am asking for. his unwillingness to kill makes him be careful second guess himself and apply different tactics then simply punching them and killing them...

spidey grabbing his opponents is not the evidence i am asking for i am asking for a punch stating to be slower b/c he reduced his strength.

example if spidey truly slowed down when he holds back his strength then the spidey/Kingpin beating wouldnt have bn so one sided.. since Kingpin would have bn able to grab him and spidey wouldn have showed the lvl of strength control he should on kingpin while going full speed.

which completely overturns the statement that he is slower b.c he reduces his speed...

same with pissed off spidey/DD fights..

http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/2159/speedfasterthanabulleta.th.jpghttp://img816.imageshack.us/img816/9044/speedgreengoblinstatest.th.jpg

Originally posted by King Castle
that is not what i am asking for. his unwillingness to kill makes him be careful second guess himself and apply different tactics then simply punching them and killing them...

spidey grabbing his opponents is not the evidence i am asking for i am asking for a punch stating to be slower b/c he reduced his strength.

example if spidey truly slowed down when he holds back his strength then the spidey/Kingpin beating wouldnt have bn so one sided.. since Kingpin would have bn able to grab him and spidey wouldn have showed the lvl of strength control he should on kingpin while going full speed.

which completely overturns the statement that he is slower b.c he reduces his speed...

same with pissed off spidey/DD fights.. I see what you mean, but there are different levels of "holding back" for him. While throwing a punch Spider-man has to hit the target but make sure that it doesnt seriously harm his opponent and that's with every single attack he throws. It only makes sense that those kinds of attacks are slower than if he didnt care if he harmed anyone and was going all out, punding on his opponents.

Logan was talking about SM fighting in general as they were beating dozens of soldiers. Not that particular throw. So imo it still aplies. But as I said, that's not the only example, but the only one I can get my hands on now.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/2159/speedfasterthanabulleta.th.jpghttp://img816.imageshack.us/img816/9044/speedgreengoblinstatest.th.jpg again i am asking for a scan stating and showing his speed of his punch is effected by his reduction of speed.

neither of the scans shows that but simply shows his traveling, dodging speed at full gear....... we know that spidey doesnt always fight in full gear but never has it bn stated that his reduction of speed reduces the speed of his punch.

especially when we have seen spidey go full steam on human lvl being and not kill them and still reduce the striking power without effecting his punching speed.

Originally posted by King Castle
that is not what i am asking for. his unwillingness to kill makes him be careful second guess himself and apply different tactics then simply punching them and killing them...

spidey grabbing his opponents is not the evidence i am asking for i am asking for a punch stating to be slower b/c he reduced his strength.

example if spidey truly slowed down when he holds back his strength then the spidey/Kingpin beating wouldnt have bn so one sided.. since Kingpin would have bn able to grab him and spidey wouldn have showed the lvl of strength control he should on kingpin while going full speed.

which completely overturns the statement that he is slower b.c he reduces his speed...

same with pissed off spidey/DD fights..

Spider-Man was not holding back during the Back In Black Kingpin fight. He wasn't truly bloodlusted (he let the Kingpin live and threatened to kill him the minute May died), but he absolutely demolished him. Fisk is no slouch in the H2H department either: he's a master of many martial arts, and challenged Spider-Man in past fights. But in that particular fight he was beaten like a redheaded step-child.

hence his punching speed was not tied to his strength reduction.. thank you!! i'll be here all night!!

hat

Originally posted by SamZED
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/7479/whatifdcp0009.th.jpg

There are other examples, but this is the only one I can provide now.

Non-canon evidence detected! Reporting immediately. SamZED permanently banned. Mission accomplished.

biscuits


Seriously though, Lizard wins. I'd like to see how the chi-scream would affect him, but it's not likely Shang would use that, I guess.

Originally posted by King Castle
hence his punching speed was not tied to his strength reduction.. thank you!! i'll be here all night!!

hat

So because Spider-Man beat the **** out of Kingpin in one fight, he doesn't punch slower when he holds back. Because it wasn't like Fisk was completely unable to block or dodge any attacks during that fight either...

i knew using non canon evidence was a banneable offense!!

what does it fall under?

This is silly, although the thread sped up. Strength and speed are related, when he holds back his speed holds back too. Especially since he uses launching (moving his entire body with his attack), if he used full force the launch would be faster. Spider-Man not holding back has left fights unscathed. Speed kills. If I take a weight and launch it with half strength and then full strength, which will move faster? The same thing when he fights. Especially since his movements are different from traditional MA when some people hit really fast with no force behind them.

Shang takes this with ease.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Non-canon evidence detected! Reporting immediately. SamZED permanently banned. Mission accomplished.

biscuits









Seriously though, Lizard wins. I'd like to see how the chi-scream would affect him, but it's not likely Shang would use that, I guess. StiltmanFTW banned for life from Wolverine fanclub for questioning Wolverine's credibility. His words are true no matter what continuiy they're from.


Seriously though.. that v pretty much sums it up.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
This is silly, although the thread sped up. Strength and speed are related, when he holds back his speed holds back too. Especially since he uses launching (moving his entire body with his attack), if he used full force the launch would be faster. Spider-Man not holding back has left fights unscathed. Speed kills. If I take a weight and launch it with half strength and then full strength, which will move faster? The same thing when he fights. Especially since his movements are different from traditional MA when some people hit really fast with no force behind them.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
This is silly, although the thread sped up. Strength and speed are related, when he holds back his speed holds back too. Especially since he uses launching (moving his entire body with his attack), if he used full force the launch would be faster. Spider-Man not holding back has left fights unscathed. Speed kills. If I take a weight and launch it with half strength and then full strength, which will move faster? The same thing when he fights. Especially since his movements are different from traditional MA when some people hit really fast with no force behind them.

C-Master, you know as well as I that h2h speed is not dependent on strength. Tensing too much slows you down.

True but Spider-Man doesn't use conventional MA strikes. If a MA hit very fast and lightly that is possible, but that is different altogether from launching your body in a spring like Spider-Man does. They are different types of movements. Spider-man uses his speed for his attack force primarily.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
True but Spider-Man doesn't use conventional MA strikes. If a MA hit very fast and lightly that is possible, but that is different altogether from launching your body in a spring like Spider-Man does. They are different types of movements. Spider-man uses his speed for his attack force primarily.

The jumping and combat acrobatics that is shown in comics and kung fu movies are totally unrealistic, you can`t apply real world physics and anatomy to it. Fact is that in the real world, such a style would make Parker slow since he is dependant on gravity to get in touch with the ground again.

is shang chi able to inflict physical damage above the level spider-man can? because i kno spidey has been consistently unable to harm him physically

Originally posted by Lord_Talron
is shang chi able to inflict physical damage above the level spider-man can? because i kno spidey has been consistently unable to harm him physically
Shang Chi can kick a radio tower in half and crush doombots with his bare hands etc etc etc

and thats out of spidermans league how?

Originally posted by Lord_Talron
and thats out of spidermans league how?
never said it was just giving examples........but if you want one that is out of his league here's shang chi blocking a punch from hiroim.
http://g.imagehost.org/view/0793/blz10
http://g.imagehost.org/view/0042/blz11
http://g.imagehost.org/view/0346/blz12
http://g.imagehost.org/view/0554/blz14

Originally posted by Mshinu
The jumping and combat acrobatics that is shown in comics and kung fu movies are totally unrealistic, you can`t apply real world physics and anatomy to it. Fact is that in the real world, such a style would make Parker slow since he is dependant on gravity to get in touch with the ground again. Doesn't matter though. Spider-Man's physique is far superior to a human's body and works different in many ways. His body is extremely strong and dense yet extremely flexible and pliable, which means his muscles don't work against each other (as they generally would) to slow him down. Not only that, he has webbing also.

Of course a newer person learning a specific art would tense themselves using too much strength as their muscles are working against each other, particularly if they are stronger. I did the same thing myself actually. So I don't disagree what with you're saying (actually I have a lean and strong physique like Spider-Man, one of the rarer types, most are small and faster or big and less flexible). Spider-Man's physique is just different than most human's and farrrrrr stronger at that. The stronger a muscle is the faster it can move and accelerate.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Doesn't matter though. Spider-Man's physique is far superior to a human's body and works different in many ways. His body is extremely strong and dense yet extremely flexible and pliable, which means his muscles don't work against each other (as they generally would) to slow him down. Not only that, he has webbing also.

Of course a newer person learning a specific art would tense themselves using too much strength as their muscles are working against each other, particularly if they are stronger. I did the same thing myself actually. So I don't disagree what with you're saying (actually I have a lean and strong physique like Spider-Man, one of the rarer types, most are small and faster or big and less flexible). Spider-Man's physique is just different than most human's and farrrrrr stronger at that. The stronger a muscle is the faster it can move and accelerate.

Uh, he is still subject to gravity. And his physique is not that special, having two arms and two legs.

Too much is the same as too little. A good puncher knows to only use force at the moment of inpact, otherwise it will slow him down. I am pretty sure you also know the power in a good punch is not in the arm but in the hips and ground. This is inconpatible with "launching", which frankly is a laughable concept. But hey, it`s comics.

Originally posted by Mshinu
Uh, he is still subject to gravity. And his physique is not that special, having two arms and two legs.

Too much is the same as too little. A good puncher knows to only use force at the moment of inpact, otherwise it will slow him down. I am pretty sure you also know the power in a good punch is not in the arm but in the hips and ground. This is inconpatible with "launching", which frankly is a laughable concept. But hey, it`s comics. But what does that have to do with slowing his speed down? He has walls and webbing to direct himselves.

His physique is different. Unless you know people who are outrageously strong for their size bend all the way backwards and put their head through their legs with ease.

Power with punching is about speed, leverage, strength, and weight. Obviously a school kid with solid technique won't hit harder than an nfl linebacker. But a person with good technique can hit hard at a decent size, very hard.

Spider-Man's body breaks those natural laws and his style isn't based on those limitations, unless he's grounding himself.

I think you guys are getting a little off topic lol

He's crazy about me.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
But what does that have to do with slowing his speed down? He has walls and webbing to direct himselves.

His physique is different. Unless you know people who are outrageously strong for their size bend all the way backwards and put their head through their legs with ease.

Power with punching is about speed, leverage, strength, and weight. Obviously a school kid with solid technique won't hit harder than an nfl linebacker. But a person with good technique can hit hard at a decent size, very hard.

Spider-Man's body breaks those natural laws and his style isn't based on those limitations, unless he's grounding himself.

I think you are intentionally spewing BS now, or I may have overestimated you.

In short:
Striking with less than full force does not slow you down quite the opposite in fact.
Striking force is more than anything dependent on rooting, "launching" takes this away. Try standing on your tiptoes and punch a wall.
Spidey being strong and aigle doesn`t let him break any rules, in fact he is even more dependent on them because his weight is next to nothing compared to his strength.

Originally posted by Mshinu
I think you are intentionally spewing BS now, or I may have overestimated you.

In short:
Striking with less than full force does not slow you down quite the opposite in fact.
Striking force is more than anything dependent on rooting, "launching" takes this away. Try standing on your tiptoes and punch a wall.
Spidey being strong and aigle doesn`t let him break any rules, in fact he is even more dependent on them because his weight is next to nothing compared to his strength. What are you talking about, if Spider-Man has launched himself in the air he is no longer rooted. If I jump with partial strength I'm not going to go as far or as fast. Although if you are extending a punch further you may rise up some. I tend to walk on the balls of my feet all the time. I'm weird like that.
You have overestimated me. I'm the biggest moron around.

Good grief you two need get a room were you can spoon and philosophize on life after watching Laverne & Shirley reruns LOL

Ew... we don't have that kind of thing going on. That's you and DDD.

lizard does not equal spider-man but it can go either way around i mean if shang chi really wants to hurt lizard he can tear out his eyes and chi blast down his throat , lizard is very strong and can smash shang with his tale it can go both ways around

on a side note why isnt there a lizard respect thread

Actually there is.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Ew... we don't have that kind of thing going on. That's you and DDD.
oops got me on that one lol donatello

Back in the day I had lots of one on ones though. I just mess around now. All good fun.

Originally posted by C MASTER
lizard does not equal spider-man but it can go either way around i mean if shang chi really wants to hurt lizard he can tear out his eyes and chi blast down his throat , lizard is very strong and can smash shang with his tale it can go both ways around

on a side note why isnt there a lizard respect thread

You're right, he's better.

Why did C Master go? Was he trolling? He seemed well behaved...