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Wrath from Full Metal Alchemist vs X-23 from Marvel Comics.

Who wins?

what are Wrath's feats/abilities

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
what are Wrath's feats/abilities

His main abilities are is he has moderately superhuman stats (he's fast, strong, etc., though not so much a human can't keep up) and the 'ultimate eye,' which lets him see all of an opponent's movements and uses that to tell when to attack and what opponents are going to do before they do them.

Laura, fts.

Pinned.

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
what are Wrath's feats/abilities Wrath is, first of all, superhuman.

Able to easily dodge bullets after they are fired, even without the use of the Ultimate Eye.

Physically, he possessed the strength to cut through a tank with his sword, can easily bisect normal humans, and stuff.

His Ultimate Eye essentially lets him see the future, allowing him to predict the actions his opponent is going to take, making him a force in melee combat.

He is a skilled fighter, preferring to dual wield two thin sabers, but often keeping as much as eight swords on hand.

Also, nah, normal humans cannot keep up with Wrath physically... Not that it matters, in FMA, there are humans who can punch with greater force than artillery shells from tanks.

Here's a video of Wrath vs a regenerator (and the backup the regenerator gets at one point are mildly superhuman beast people).



I guess I should say "highly trained ninja can keep up with Wrath physically," at least to a limited extent.

When he doesn't utilise alchemy isn't Scar technically a normal human?

Wrath sounds quite beastly, but the video doesn't put him out of X-23's league. I don't know much about FMA, so here are some questions I think are quite important here.

Does he have any extra abilities? How good is his damage soak? Does he have a healing factor? Has anyone ever outmaneuvered his Ultimate Eye? If yes, how was the eye outmaneuvered? Does he have any CIS style limitations?

He'll be dead before that eye patch gets removed.

The eye patch doesn't have to be removed for the ultimate eye to work.

ahhh, you're right.

Still, he can't put her down, their speed/agility is probably equal, I'd give her the edge in MA ability and she has a HF which would ultimately give her the win because even if he stabs/cuts her, she'll get him too and he won't be able to heal.

I will note his preference for severing limbs in a single blow.

Also, here's a running speed example of his rush, 1:50 in until 4 min or so.

The fighters he faces are pretty badass.

Originally posted by StyleTime

Does he have any extra abilities? How good is his damage soak? Does he have a healing factor? Has anyone ever outmaneuvered his Ultimate Eye? If yes, how was the eye outmaneuvered? Does he have any CIS style limitations?

Also in the video I just link it has a fighter staying on his blind side as much as possible (while the eyepatch is on, the Ultimate Eye doesn't serve as a normal eye too well, though he still gets it's benefits from the normal eye. Ditch the patch and then that's not as much of an issue).

If someone's out of sight, the eye power is, obviously, less helpful.

Are we talking about wrath from brotherhood or the
original anime?

Originally posted by McNasty996
Are we talking about wrath from brotherhood or the
original anime?

Brotherhood/manga Wrath (aka original anime Pride) seemed to be the one the nominator was talking about, not the alchemist Wrath.

Hmm I haven't kept up to well with the manga but
if he is anything like is pride counterpart he shoul win this
but either way his speed should get him more hits
as long as he slashes and retraets very fast and repetitivy
but if he gets an occasional swipe or stab he will
eventually go down due to not enough
damage being done

Wrath anal probes her vastly more skilled and experienced though technically he is only "human" he's too much for X-23 in 1 on 1.

Honestly I'm leaning to X. She has speed like Wolverine's, is super agile, and the adamantium is a nice edge. I could see her losing a limb in the process but I'd still bet on Laura.

Originally posted by Q99
Honestly I'm leaning to X. She has speed like Wolverine's, is super agile, and the adamantium is a nice edge. I could see her losing a limb in the process but I'd still bet on Laura. His reflex feats are better than hers imo if we use Wolverines feats i would agree

Originally posted by iceman24567
His reflex feats are better than hers imo if we use Wolverines feats i would agree

I dunno, when they fought against each other (in which he said he got serious), or side-by-side, they seem pretty even by me.

Also her training included literally copying him move-for-move at some points.

At the least, they're very close.

does wrath not have a healing factor? i was thought all of the homunculi did?

anyways, the biggest problem for wrath would be that his blades < adamantium and if he doesnt have a healing factor hes going to take hits after a while

anyways, whats wraths stamina like? x could potentially just tire him out

Laura doesn't have the skills and speed Wolverine has, her feats are just inferior in everyway. She's a beast and a regenerator, she can potentially try to tire Wrath but she would need to stand losing legs and hands several times for that to work or try to cut through Wrath's swords/knives before he notices how hard Adamantium really is.

would his eye potentially tell him that?

Originally posted by Lord_Talron
does wrath not have a healing factor? i was thought all of the homunculi did?


He's a different type of homunculi, a human turned into one. Wrath only has one life and can't rapidly regen limbs and stuff like the others.




She doesn't look inferior when they compete side by side or head to head.

Originally posted by Q99
He's a different type of homunculi, a human turned into one. Wrath only has one life and can't rapidly regen limbs and stuff like the others.
the fight is determined by how fast he can discover the powers of adamantium.

Originally posted by Q99
He's a different type of homunculi, a human turned into one. Wrath only has one life and can't rapidly regen limbs and stuff like the others.




She doesn't look inferior when they compete side by side or head to head.


She wouldn't be the first character Logan would utterly stomp in a Vs forum that can give him a fight in a comic.

Originally posted by Bentley
She wouldn't be the first character Logan would utterly stomp in a Vs forum that can give him a fight in a comic.

She is literally his clone trained by mimicing his movements inside a hologram.

I don't see why she'd be slower. He's just had more time to accumulate feats, but among her feats is explicitly 'matches up well against Wolverine and does well against him when he's being serious.'

"I don't see why she would be slower" kind of falls short to prove Laura is as fast as him. She's competent and powerful, and in this fight she's not the underdog but she shouldn't be compared with Logan until she's portrayed consistently as he is.

Originally posted by Bentley
"I don't see why she would be slower" kind of falls short to prove Laura is as fast as him. She's competent and powerful, and in this fight she's not the underdog but she shouldn't be compared with Logan until she's portrayed consistently as he is.

Except, she has. When she fought him, and the hologram-mimic training.

She hasn't been portrayed as any slower, she simply has fewer appearances.


I'm not sure how having fewer feats is an argument for her being slower when they don't show her any slower.

The issue is, Logan is more experienced and he's as fast while having the whole skeleton laced with adamantium, meaning that would be vastly faster than X-23 without it, hence Laura should be considered a different character and not assumed like Logan, Wolverine is just better than her.

Seeing as she is his clone with the same physical stats and doesn't have to carry around an adamantium skeleton... she should realistically be faster. If we are to go by feats, she beat the training simulation Wolverine partook in quicker than he did when she was around 11.

She hasn't been around as long as he has and doesn't get the spotlight treatment, so of course her feats aren't quite as obscene on the high end as his are.

In any case, she has shown to have a healing factor at precisely his level, the speed to and fighting skill to bleed Logan out, the guts to take nearly fatal blows on purpose to pwn Deathstrike, etc.

Wrath shitstomped a vastly better regenerator. He can deal with the healing can she deal with a faster and more experienced fighter with superhuman level stats?

Originally posted by Konton
Seeing as she is his clone with the same physical stats and doesn't have to carry around an adamantium skeleton... she should realistically be faster.


You're coming exactly with the wrong conclusion given evidence: She hasn't been shown to be faster despite lacking of adamantium hence she is slower.

Originally posted by Bentley
You're coming exactly with the wrong conclusion given evidence: She hasn't been shown to be faster despite lacking of adamantium hence she is slower.

She's not slower than Logan w/ adamantium. It's even possible she might be a little faster, though admittedly that hasn't been demonstrated (IMO she is more agile admittedly, just the way she fights is more acrobatic).


I think the 'she's slower' thing is a reach.

Ok fine, I'll phrase it differently, she may not be slower, she is most definitively not faster (from what we've seen).

I would phrase it as she may not be faster, she is most definitely not slower.

You have to be the same speed as someone to literally copy a recording of their movements exactly.

Originally posted by Q99
I would phrase it as she may not be faster, she is most definitely not slower.

You have to be the same speed as someone to literally copy a recording of their movements exactly.

Yet that someone carries more weight than you do while doing it and it has proved time and time again he can do more impressive stuff than you've ever done.

Originally posted by Bentley
Yet that someone carries more weight than you do while doing it and it has proved time and time again he can do more impressive stuff than you've ever done.

You're taking absence of evidence as evidence of absence.

Of course she hasn't done as much high-end stuff, she's only been around for a few years and generally just one book at a time. What stuff she's done does not indicate a lower speed level though (and rather explicitly indicates at minimum even speed), and if you want to prove lower speed, that's what you need.


Wolverine does have stuff going for him other than speed- He's stronger, and of course has the adamantium, plus his fighting style is different, but in terms of speed? I think it's fairly definitive what info we have.

My main point remains, saying that she is a clone and doesn't have adamantium so she must be faster cannot be backed by showings and is pure speculation.

Originally posted by iceman24567
Wrath shitstomped a vastly better regenerator. He can deal with the healing can she deal with a faster and more experienced fighter with superhuman level stats? he also traded blows with him. he wouldnt be able to trade blows with adamantium claws. they would go thru his swords like butter. and unless he can figure out how pwnage adamantium is really really fast, hes gonna get some serious wounds that could quite easily cost him the battle via blood loss or inhibited movement

When Wrath was mortally wounded he survived a 60+ feet fall into a moat and then stalemated Scar until he died

What was the wound, specifically? Who is Scar? What are his abilities?

Originally posted by StyleTime
What was the wound, specifically? Who is Scar? What are his abilities?

Scar's a badass Ishbalan (that is, human) warrior who has an alchemy thing on his arm that lets him kill/blow up whatever he grabs with it.

Originally posted by Q99
Scar's a badass Ishbalan (that is, human) warrior who has an alchemy thing on his arm that lets him kill/blow up whatever he grabs with it.
pretty sure he can only kill transmuted objects with it. Things that were created with alchemy. Normal things, i don't believe are effected by it.

No, Scar just stopped the alchemic process before it was finished.

He deconstructed and then neglected to reconstruct, crumbling matter. This was how he shattered brick walls and busted Ed's arm.

oh ok.

Also Scar killed the army's most famous martial art state alchemist and was forced to use his contructing hand to face an already hurt Fuhrer, Wrath is nothing to laugh at.

But not slower.



If we go by feats she is clearly indicated to be equal on a few occasions. She can match a literal hologram of him move for move, staying within it. If Wolverine's going at full (as he almost certainly was in his Weapon X feral time), and she can match it, that puts her at even.

Also when they fought for real, she also had no problem matching his speed even though he was going at it seriously.



That's just addressing the incorrect time markers of the test, that doesn't change the fact she literally had to match his exact movements, speed included, to do the hologram training.

How else could someone do so if they were slower? A recording is going to be at 100% of his speed, she had to move the same rate as him.




What, the issues where she was not using her normal fighting style and Wolverine later specifically said she was messing around?

How about the issue where she and him actually fought and he said he was serious, and yet she was still getting as many hits as he was?

We've got more stuff showing they're about equal than not.



I agree here. Laura was almost killed by being burned to a crisp by Nimrod. Her healing factor seems to be around as fast, but not as good against extreme levels of damage.



I am educated on Logan, and more specifically on every time the two have directly compared. We've got multiple examples that show equal speed, one lone quote from Uncanny that was later said to not be at full doesn't counter that.

The only thing that seems to put her at slower is the one lone specifically-said-by-Logan-later-to-be-faking-it example, and that's opposed by the time they actually fought and the examples of her training.

It's a recording. It's not a programmed hologram, it's a literal recording.

Are you saying a video of Jesse Owens in a race is slower than he actually was in a race?

Within .09 of his movements.


Yea, sure, they got some details wrong when compared to the original comic. But what's more likely, writer's/artist error, or it not being intended to be a recording?

Your examples get way, way more off than the number of animals fought.



And it couldn't possibly the artist just getting it wrong?

Btw, nice of you to discount that due to nitpicky reasons, but not discount the example that has actually been said in the comic to be false and that has way more things wrong with it.




Target X. Definitely is serious about this. Next page, leap at each other. Next, even damage. Then she attacks him some more.

If you're saying that's "not fighting back," you're wrong.

Are either of those two fights in something other than Uncanny X-men? Because that's been retconned away with her character it didn't fit with the others so bad, and was specifically said by Logan to not be her for real, but rather just faking.


Because if you're relying entirely on obviously out-of-character examples where someone neither looks, acts, nor fights like normal, maybe you should re-evaluate your position.


Heck, you're going as far to discount ones that are explicit because they have some minor errors and don't match up exactly with the original Weapon X test, while insisted on ones that don't have a single thing right about them are true.

Plus, there's more of the good ones.


C'mon. Minority of instances, massively out-of-character in them, vs more instances of her written by her creators, and Logan himself badmouthing the prior encounters? Openly using retconned fights over official ones?


This isn't hard, you're being super nitpicky to one side and super generous on larger problems to the other. What ones are right and what ones are not is pretty clear.

Though I want to make this known that Wolverine is clearly the faster of the two. She still in the same speed range. She can deffiently keep up with his combat speed. Just wanted to clarify that, have a feeling people may have taken my statements as saying he to fast for her to keep up, which is deffiently not the case.

Yea, he did attack her and was pretty clearly taking things seriously at that point and all that managed to do was even things up, he didn't seem to have a speed advantage there. We can't leave out that part of the fight just because he wasn't fighting back through the whole thing, he did try fighting back for real there.

Ditto when he was dodging at full and still got tagged.





It sorta-kinda happened, but here's what Logan said about that run: "No more growling and no more BS! You have to come back and try for real." (emphasis his) in NXM 20.

C'mon, it flies directly in the face of 90% of her appearances and was obviously written with little respect for the character's development and has had nothing else follow up on using that version of her. I can't take an argument that relies on it seriously.




WTH? The Uncanny run had her growly, aggressive, and acting like a cheap Logan knock off. She's normally clinical, laconic, and non-growly with a very different character. Different costumes, different attitude (heck, different personality), to the point where the creators specifically had Logan call it all out as fake when they wrote her.

I really get the impression you are not familiar with the majority of X-23's stuff.




So maybe they're working off a different recording of Wolverine's training.

The point is, it's according to the comic a Weapon X training recording of Wolverine. Even when she leaves it, it keeps on fighting.

Heck, maybe they didn't have as many animals to make it 'easy mode' for her, figuring she wouldn't have the endurance to take as many on at her age as the adult Logan did. The recording still officially was a recording of Logan in a training fight.

According to that comic, it was Weapon X training footage, period.

Well, I know I kind of stirred this conversation but between the long posts and it being off topic we should probably just move it to the proper thread.

Originally posted by iceman24567
When Wrath was mortally wounded he survived a 60+ feet fall into a moat and then stalemated Scar until he died that doesnt prove he will beat her, just that the fight will last a long time

Well, the fact is....Wrath is more than fast enough to dismember Laura. She has no adamantium skeleton, and she will end up in pieces...with her head removed..

Originally posted by Q99
I will note his preference for severing limbs in a single blow.

Also, here's a running speed example of his rush, 1:50 in until 4 min or so.

The fighters he faces are pretty badass.



Also in the video I just link it has a fighter staying on his blind side as much as possible (while the eyepatch is on, the Ultimate Eye doesn't serve as a normal eye too well, though he still gets it's benefits from the normal eye. Ditch the patch and then that's not as much of an issue).

If someone's out of sight, the eye power is, obviously, less helpful.
He's got the speed to make Laura sweat obviously, but his performances in the prolongued combat scenes still leave me doubtful. How do the two he fought stack up against Laura stat-wise?
Originally posted by Q99
Scar's a badass Ishbalan (that is, human) warrior who has an alchemy thing on his arm that lets him kill/blow up whatever he grabs with it.
Ok.

Scar is a highly trained monk

Originally posted by iceman24567
Scar is a highly trained monk

With an awesome scar.

Chicks dig scars.

Originally posted by StyleTime
What was the wound, specifically? Who is Scar? What are his abilities? It was a sword threw the chest