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Ms. Marvel
http://photos.imageevent.com/afap/heroesandvillans/marvelanimatedgifs//Ms-Marvel.gif

vs

Starfire
http://i940.photobucket.com/albums/ad248/DirtyDave83/starfire3.gif

both in the air and on the ground in a deserted city environment, both are going for the win with no distractions, who takes this ?

This has been done a few times.
Starfire wins every time.

Originally posted by Konton
This has been done a few times.
Starfire wins every time. Why?

I thought Carol is stronger and has better energy projectiles.

Don't forget energy absorption.

I don't want to have to explain this agaaaaaaaaain.

Starfire has class 100 feats. Carol, sans amping, doesn't.
Starfire's projectile has shattered mountains and wrecked Braniac's ship. Carol's tend to be ineffective.
Starfire as energy absorption too, and has drained Kryptonian's of their energy sources.
Starfire can take a puncture wound clear through her shoulder and walk around like it didn't happen.
Starfire defeated the entire island of Themyschera in a fighting tournament.

Starfire takes this

Most people out of touch with the "recent" (that is, roughly past 15 years) of Titans history tend to still picture Starfire as she was in the 80's, even if not entirely familiar with her then, either; Kory is one tough bytch, and at the very least a match for Carol.

I'd go with Kory, as she has better fighting skills and is much more aggressive. Not a slam, by any means, and Carol can get some wins, but Kory pretty much takes this.

Originally posted by Konton
I don't want to have to explain this agaaaaaaaaain.

Starfire has class 100 feats. Carol, sans amping, doesn't.
Starfire's projectile has shattered mountains and wrecked Braniac's ship. Carol's tend to be ineffective.
Starfire as energy absorption too, and has drained Kryptonian's of their energy sources.
Starfire can take a puncture wound clear through her shoulder and walk around like it didn't happen.
Starfire defeated the entire island of Themyschera in a fighting tournament.


At the moment, Ms. Marvel possesses incredible superhuman strength and durability, can fly at roughly half the speed of sound and discharge explosive blasts of radiant energy, which she fires from her fingertips.

She also demonstrates the ability to absorb other forms of energy, such as electricity, to further magnify her strength and energy projection, up to the force of an exploding nuclear weapon. When sufficiently augmented, she can withstand the pressure from a 92-ton weight, and strike with a similar level of force, although Hank Pym theorized that this likely was not her limit.

I don't see how Starfire dominates her, I do however see that Starfire would empower her if she blasted her with energy.

Originally posted by Stoic
can fly at roughly half the speed of sound and
I hope you mean half the speed of light, because there are WWII era prop-driven fighter planes that could fly faster than 1/2 the speed of sound.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I hope you mean half the speed of light, because there are WWII era prop-driven fighter planes that could fly faster than 1/2 the speed of sound.


Nope I mean half the speed of sound, speed isn't everything, and I won't give her more than she's currently is listed at. However she was moving at light speed when she was connected to the white hole, the more power she drains the faster she becomes, but at her base/current levels that's all she can muster. Like I said before Starfire would empower her with he blasts, which would not only increase her strength and speed, but it was also increase her durability.

This would in no way would be a stomp for either. Actually Starfire seems to be a the closest character in DC to compare Ms. Marvel to based on power-set. I think Carol would get the upper hand because of energy drain though.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I hope you mean half the speed of light, because there are WWII era prop-driven fighter planes that could fly faster than 1/2 the speed of sound.


To be honest with you though, I thought it was an error as well. I'm just going on what I read.

Wow..half the speed of sound. That's really pathetic.

If that's true no wonder Ms Marvel gets no respect.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Wow..half the speed of sound. That's really pathetic.

If that's true no wonder Ms Marvel gets no respect.


Lol yea you have a point, but the cool thing about Carol is that she doesn't have a cap on her power levels, she's an energy leech. Marvel should begin fleshing out this ability more often, because technically she has enormous potential to be a high herald type character, her Binary form is a clear indication to this theory.

If Starfire goes all-out on the blasting, then Carol can out-amp her and win, but if she doesn't Kori should win in melee on skill.

Originally posted by Konton

Starfire defeated the entire island of Themyschera in a fighting tournament.

I don't think she fought the real badasses (Diana, Artemis, Hippolyta), but yea, she won a tournament there.

Originally posted by Q99
I


I don't think she fought the real badasses (Diana, Artemis, Hippolyta), but yea, she won a tournament there.
Its not like she hasn't beaten Donna before or fought Wonder Woman to a standstill.
Oh wait she has......
yeah Carol really doesn't have a chance

Originally posted by SasuOna
Its not like she hasn't beaten Donna before or fought Wonder Woman to a standstill.
Oh wait she has......
yeah Carol really doesn't have a chance

It's not like Carol remains at the same level after she absorbs energy, just look at what she did to Sentry.... Oh wait, she can absorb energy, and grow stronger?


Kory doesn't stand a chance.

half the speed of sound...........

Originally posted by SasuOna
half the speed of sound...........

Her speed, strength, and durability grow in direct proportion to the energy that she leeches. Also there have been many occasions where characters that could not fly have fought, and whipped characters that could. Should I bust out the examples?

Also, it's not as if Kory fights in hyper speed? Ms. Marvel is also a very capable fighter, unlike many supers that rely solely on their speed and power to get them through. She was trained by shield in different forms on unarmed combat.

Originally posted by SasuOna
Its not like she hasn't beaten Donna before or fought Wonder Woman to a standstill.
Oh wait she has......
yeah Carol really doesn't have a chance

Beaten Donna, yes, but it's more "held off WW for a bit," than to a standstill in my book.

Still, beaten Donna! Donna's both stronger than Carol and very good in HtH.




That's only if Kory pumps her up that far. If Kory realizes that starbolts amp her and goes to melee, Starfire'll have the solid edge.

Originally posted by Stoic

Also, it's not as if Kory fights in hyper speed? Ms. Marvel is also a very capable fighter, unlike many supers that rely solely on their speed and power to get them through. She was trained by shield in different forms on unarmed combat.
So what your saying is that Ms Marvel won't get dominated because Kory who can fly at FTL speeds but somehow cannot fight at that speed even though shes blitzed characters a lot faster than Ms Marvel?

Ms Marvel is a capable fighter but shes no where near the level of Kory,Donna, or Dianna. Its like your saying the average SHIELD agent can hang with Shang chi in a fight.

Not necessarily, Carol is an accomplished martial artist (she was trained by shield) at that level of power, nerve blows are quite potent. Ms. Marvel isn't a chump, she took out Mr. Fixit with a couple punches, this would make her close to class 100 at base levels. Meaning that a minor spike in her energy levels would make class 100 in no time, if we go with the example of her Binary form.

This is not a stomp for either, nor should anyone make it seem like it would be. They would both have to work for any win, and honestly I think Carol has better durability than Kory to begin with.

Nah not a stomp at all.

Originally posted by SasuOna
So what your saying is that Ms Marvel won't get dominated because Kory who can fly at FTL speeds but somehow cannot fight at that speed even though shes blitzed characters a lot faster than Ms Marvel?

Ms Marvel is a capable fighter but shes no where near the level of Kory,Donna, or Dianna. Its like your saying the average SHIELD agent can hang with Shang chi in a fight.


So I guess that I do need to bust out the list of guys that have lost to slower ones, and ones that could not fly.

Lobo vs Superman
Hulk vs Gladiator
Rulk vs Thor
Superman vs Doomsday
Hulk vs Ironman

If I asked you who you thought would win, between Ikaris and Wendigo (Mauvais) what would you say? Yea but Ike is way faster, and he can fire bolts of energy.

See there are variables in between, that bring the blitz under control in many cases. Carol has superior durability, and comparable strength at base levels, but let's take Kory's fighting style into consideration. She's a blaster type character, do you think Carol would let on that her star bolts are making her stronger, and faster? No.

This is not a stomp when CIS is on. They would have a hell of a fight.

Originally posted by Stoic
At the moment, Ms. Marvel possesses incredible superhuman strength and durability, can fly at roughly half the speed of sound and discharge explosive blasts of radiant energy, which she fires from her fingertips.

She also demonstrates the ability to absorb other forms of energy, such as electricity, to further magnify her strength and energy projection, up to the force of an exploding nuclear weapon. When sufficiently augmented, she can withstand the pressure from a 92-ton weight, and strike with a similar level of force, although Hank Pym theorized that this likely was not her limit.

I don't see how Starfire dominates her, I do however see that Starfire would empower her if she blasted her with energy.

I've literally read every single issue of Ms. Marvel and every Avengers title with her in it. Not trying to build ethos here, just saying.

Originally posted by Stoic
Her speed, strength, and durability grow in direct proportion to the energy that she leeches. Also there have been many occasions where characters that could not fly have fought, and whipped characters that could. Should I bust out the examples?

Also, it's not as if Kory fights in hyper speed? Ms. Marvel is also a very capable fighter, unlike many supers that rely solely on their speed and power to get them through. She was trained by shield in different forms on unarmed combat.

KMC forum rules state that each character gets basic knowledge of the opponent. They aren't going to be spilling energy on each other. Keep in mind that Carol has to amp to get to Kory's level, and she's NOT as skilled of a fighter by comic continuity.

Warlords of Okaara > Shield
Starfire was raised from birth to fight in WAR. Starfire defeated every single Amazon, save Diana and Donna who weren't there, in h2h combat for a tourney. Hippolyta said that she could rival Diana herself. I posted this in her respect thread.

Carol isn't going to have time to leech electricity from the city. She's going to be bum rushed by a feisty, orange, broad shouldered, alien war princess aching to bruise her knuckles.

Sorry for the double post, but I just caught the "she's a blaster character" comment. She's been the team tank since forever, but alright. Dont' forget that Carol blasts more often than Kory does, and Kory is just as likely to absorb that.

I think it's a good fight, but the only thing Carol really does better than Star is absorb energy and amp from it. Everything else, Kory's at least a little better.

Originally posted by Konton
I've literally read every single issue of Ms. Marvel and every Avengers title with her in it. Not trying to build ethos here, just saying.



KMC forum rules state that each character gets basic knowledge of the opponent. They aren't going to be spilling energy on each other. Keep in mind that Carol has to amp to get to Kory's level, and she's NOT as skilled of a fighter by comic continuity.

Warlords of Okaara > Shield
Starfire was raised from birth to fight in WAR. Starfire defeated every single Amazon, save Diana and Donna who weren't there, in h2h combat for a tourney. Hippolyta said that she could rival Diana herself. I posted this in her respect thread.

Carol isn't going to have time to leech electricity from the city. She's going to be bum rushed by a feisty, orange, broad shouldered, alien war princess aching to bruise her knuckles.



You, and I both know that you are the only person that's solidly placed Kory in the class 100 club. Kory beating Donna means what exactly? Donna isn't in the big league. You recently thought that Kory would be a good match for the savage Hulk as well (don't kid yourself).

Wonder Woman is a different story, so is Power Girl, Supergirl, and Maxima... Could Kory beat Superman, or Thor on a regular basis? Could she even compete in that level if either of those two took it up a couple notches, to where they were slobbering because of the effort that it would take to put a true elite down? Doubtful.

Ms. Marvel is in Kory's weight class, and could take a few wins from her, it's not like I'm arguing that the Beast would have a chance against her, because that's not the case. Carol was trained, and therefore would not be a walk in the park if she fought Kory. Am I saying that Carol would win every fight that they had? No absolutely not, but I am saying that on any given day she could. What stops Carol from breaking away from Kory amidst a forest of buildings, and finding a power source to amp herself with?

When you take the two of these characters, who by the way seem more similar than any other character in Marvel and DC, and put them in a vs thread, many variables come into pay. It's not as simple as Kory wins, or Carol wins.

^ I put her in the Class 100 club.

Yeah shes in class 100 easily.
Didn't it take 2 class 100 characters to hold her down in JLA recently?

Carol isn't winning this

Your whole argument seems to revolve around the false notion that there isn't a weight class in-between Superman level and Carol Danvers.

Starfire laughed at Superboy when he asked Kory if she could stop him and Wondergirl at the same time.

Starfire carried an aircraft carrier a ways.

Starfire wrestled it out with Wondy.

Starfire used to outmuscle Donna Troy who, even before her resurrection, was a low-mid 100 class.

Just a few issues ago in Robinson's JLA it took the combined efforts of Donna Troy and Mon-El to grab her arms and keep her from murdering their enemies. lol

Carol's only 100 class feats are under extreme casses of energy absorption. I guess she went h2h with Wonderman, but hey, he was mind controlled.

This is a real class 100 feat isn't it?

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=30xevlu&s=5

Originally posted by Stoic
This is a real class 100 feat isn't it?

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=30xevlu&s=5

It's obviously a low-showing on multiple parts. Donna is a class 100, Miss Martian too. There isn't a good reason why any of them should be having trouble there.


Everyone has low showings, we tend to focus on the norm, not the odd outliers.

Miss Martian has knocked Supergirl around. Everyone has low showings.

Should I find the scan of Carol struggling to deflect the roof of a tank thrown at her? She literally says it took all of her strength to redirect a minuscule chunk of metal.

Don't low ball me, son. I've had this argument too many times to count.

Put me as another who thinks Starfire is class 100 or, failing that, at least class 95 or so.

Stronger than unamped Carol in any case.

Originally posted by SasuOna
Yeah shes in class 100 easily.
Didn't it take 2 class 100 characters to hold her down in JLA recently?

Carol isn't winning this


it's harder to restrain a person going wild than it is to bullrush a person. here's an example; I have a friend who had an abusive boy friend, while they were at my house he decided to become aggressive with her, and I had to restrain him. It was hard as hell to restrain him, but at the same time, I've trained in a gym with this person, and my max press far exceeded his. I'm not just talking about benching, but I'm talking about that in every excercise we did that I was consistently lifting more than he was.

Originally posted by Q99
Put me as another who thinks Starfire is class 100 or, failing that, at least class 95 or so.

Stronger than unamped Carol in any case.


Carol runs at about 92 tons unamped, this is right below Wonderman.

Originally posted by Konton
Miss Martian has knocked Supergirl around. Everyone has low showings.

Should I find the scan of Carol struggling to deflect the roof of a tank thrown at her? She literally says it took all of her strength to redirect a minuscule chunk of metal.

Don't low ball me, son. I've had this argument too many times to count.

low balling is exactly what you are doing to Ms. Marvel. If you refuse to see that Kory would have her hands full with Carol that's up to you, just like it's up to you to believe that Kory would stand a chance against Superman, the Hulk, Thor, or Wonder Woman if they switched gears on her, and went all out.

Originally posted by Stoic
Carol runs at about 92 tons unamped, this is right below Wonderman.


Which gives Kory an edge in strength.

Combined with better hand to hand skills and faster flight speed, seems to me like a win for Star.




I don't think people are saying Kory would stand a chance against those fighters. Just that she's got the edge on Carol.

If she does, and I mean if. She would have her hands full either way. I don't see Carol having much luck against those guys either. kinda makes you wonder since DC doesn't place a ton range on its characters directly.

What I was saying from the door though is that Kory isn't going to be doing any one slap you're out routines on Carol.

Originally posted by Stoic
If she does, and I mean if. She would have her hands full either way. I don't see Carol having much luck against those guys either. kinda makes you wonder since DC doesn't place a ton range on its characters directly.

To paraphrase a previous post, there *are* levels in between Carol level and Superman level.




Has anyone said she would?

I believe most people have just said she'd win in the end.

can't carol goes binary these days?