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I just want to know why there is a problem for thanking God for all the gifts we've been given in this life. We thank people when they give us good things.The scientific origins of our world are still mysterious but the best things about life are ours and they aren't man-made. The emotions that we experience can be explained scientifically but they are personal to individuals and give us more than simple survival to look forward to.

The way our spirits are moved by displays of great love and/or compassion let's us know that we have purposes that we are called to pursue. However we are programmed though (DNA) our greatest gift is the power of choice over our lives. We are free to explore this world and influence it with an awareness of the intent behind our actions.We then carry the results of our experiences as a personal reference for future actions. We can acheive a feeling of spiritual fulfillment when we strive to what we feel is positive and succeed against much adversity. Just thinking about the role that fireman play in life can cause the spirit of love to rise an any man.

We've been blessed with an amazing life and the unique ability to be responsible for it beyond simple survival. We usually appreciate what loving parents did for us as infants even though we don't remember it. Likewise we were'nt aware when life for the world was made and molded. We didn't give ourselves anything we simply recieved all that is good in life. There is so much to be grateful for.

Why not thank the maker?

Originally posted by The MISTER
I just want to know why there is a problem for thanking God for all the gifts we've been given in this life. We thank people when they give us good things.The scientific origins of our world are still mysterious but the best things about life are ours and they aren't man-made. The emotions that we experience can be explained scientifically but they are personal to individuals and give us more than simple survival to look forward to.

The way our spirits are moved by displays of great love and/or compassion let's us know that we have purposes that we are called to pursue. However we are programmed though (DNA) our greatest gift is the power of choice over our lives. We are free to explore this world and influence it with an awareness of the intent behind our actions.We then carry the results of our experiences as a personal reference for future actions. We can acheive a feeling of spiritual fulfillment when we strive to what we feel is positive and succeed against much adversity. Just thinking about the role that fireman play in life can cause the spirit of love to rise an any man.

We've been blessed with an amazing life and the unique ability to be responsible for it beyond simple survival. We usually appreciate what loving parents did for us as infants even though we don't remember it. Likewise we were'nt aware when life for the world was made and molded. We didn't give ourselves anything we simply recieved all that is good in life. There is so much to be grateful for.

Why not thank the maker?


I think most people who (truly) believe in him thank him in one way or another, at least if they are grateful for what they got, a lot of people have pretty bad lifes and should perhaps rather blame him.

Others (the vast majority actually) of course do not believe in God (at least not the Christian one), so thanking him would be a silly thing to do.

Why not thank God?

Why?

1. some people dont believe in one particular God, so who do you think ppl should thank? YHVH, Brahma, Ra, Ahura Mazda, Quetzacoatl?

anyways.. when i was a teenager my mom would make us pray b4 a meal and give thanks. i started to think, why? i would see the other end of the table and it would be my mom who was tired who worked hours who had worries, she should be the one thanked, people who make something of their lives or are happy for it should thank those people responsible who helped them not ignore them and push them aside as if their part was not of any import and was not the largest influence.

also not every one feels they should feel thankful for their life. you dont thank the executioner for cutting off your head, you dont thank your boss who fires you, you dont thank the criminal who stole your purse and left you no money to buy your kids food.

thanking Gawd is one of the most disingenuous things ppl can do b/c it ignores those who truly are responsible for ones life.

its like when i would thank santa clause and find out later that it was my mom who worked extra hours just to make me happy like the other kids who got gifts. thank your parents, friends and family 1st.

Thank God for what?

I am guessing that she or he means is that we should Thank God for what we have and our family and such.

Originally posted by ADarksideJedi
I am guessing that she or he means is that we should Thank God for what we have and our family and such.

Perhaps someone's terminally ill and constantly in pain, lives on the street and all of their family are dead, killed in front of their eyes by a madman. Should they thank God then or perhaps blame him for creating them just to bring so much pain to them?

if god existed i blame god for being created and living this life as for now i'll just blame my mom and throw it in her face from time to time..

Originally posted by Bardock42
I think most people who (truly) believe in him thank him in one way or another, at least if they are grateful for what they got, a lot of people have pretty bad lifes and should perhaps rather blame him.

Others (the vast majority actually) of course do not believe in God (at least not the Christian one), so thanking him would be a silly thing to do. The term christian is probably not even known by the majority of the worlds people. Giving thanks to God really shouldn't be viewed as a mainly christian idea. Just giving recognition to a maker requires a measure of faith no matter what a persons background may be.

Blaming God for death and evil is something that we can do but if our gift is a perfect free will then evil is a choice that must be allowed. The bad things that come to us are usually by the choice of other humans. A person who is suffering seems to be forgotten by God to some but can one day know joy BECAUSE they knew sorrow.

Originally posted by The MISTER
The term christian is probably not even known by the majority of the worlds people. Giving thanks to God really shouldn't be viewed as a mainly christian idea. Just giving recognition to a maker requires a measure of faith no matter what a persons background may be.

Blaming God for death and evil is something that we can do but if our gift is a perfect free will then evil is a choice that must be allowed. The bad things that come to us are usually by the choice of other humans. A person who is suffering seems to be forgotten by God to some but can one day know joy BECAUSE they knew sorrow.

But we really don't have free will. At best, we have restricted will, and some people have no freedom in the first place.

Originally posted by ADarksideJedi
I am guessing that she or he means is that we should Thank God for what we have and our family and such.

or, I could thank my family for providing for me?

Why thank 'God'?

For myself, it's simple: anything can happen to anyone at anytime. So when another day ends with me and my loved ones in sound mind and body, yes, I "Thank 'God'." It costs me nothing and helps me to keep perspective on life.

And when Bad has happened...as far as I'm concerned, that's part of life. 'God' is not my personal bodyguard, and I see no reason nor benefit to becoming a failed-expectation atheist (for those that do, perhaps they should've examined their concept of 'God' in the first place). If anything, when bad happens, I would say that's when you first need to "keep the faith," because that's when you need all the support you can get.

Again, this is what works for me.

Originally posted by The MISTER
The term christian is probably not even known by the majority of the worlds people. Giving thanks to God really shouldn't be viewed as a mainly christian idea. Just giving recognition to a maker requires a measure of faith no matter what a persons background may be.

Blaming God for death and evil is something that we can do but if our gift is a perfect free will then evil is a choice that must be allowed. The bad things that come to us are usually by the choice of other humans. A person who is suffering seems to be forgotten by God to some but can one day know joy BECAUSE they knew sorrow.

Well, like I said I think most people who believe in a maker and are mostly happy do thank that maker.

I think blaming the God you believe in for suffering is perfectly reasonable. You may say most of the suffering is caused by other people (though I'd greatly deny that, for example just cause there's free will why does there need to be cancer?) but those people were also created by God so he's again responsible for that.

Originally posted by The MISTER
1.The one that you believe can hear you.

Only I can hear me when I pray.

Originally posted by The MISTER
2. You could thank God for your mother, your hands, your hearing, your years, and the inginuity that it took to fashion the instrument if you wanted to. Nobody is forced to be appreciative of anything however.

I can appetite all the people in my life, but that is different then thanking a god.

Originally posted by The MISTER
3.I'm not saying that we should thank people for things that we are unaware they did. However we can choose to believe that are if our parents are good to us now then they were good to us as infants. The only proof some people have of this is the fact that they are alive, but they thank their parents anyway because they believe that they made a conscoius effort to give them good things, and that it was appreciated.

That is different then thanking a god.

Originally posted by The MISTER
4.Selfishness and pride are the sources of the evils that men commit against each other. We are aware of selflessness as well because the choice to not commit evil acts is always ours.

I think it is the other way around: selfishness and pride are the result of the evil path that humans take.

Originally posted by The MISTER
5. We are limited but the choices that we have access to are like no other animals. We have dominion over all other animals and our imaginations are endless. We will be forces of good or evil in every moral decision that we make. Dreams and imaginings may not manifest for every individual but only humans are known for accomplishing things that were before deemed impossible by simply CHOOSING not to give up. No other creature can make as many choices as men.

There is no way to know if this is true, or just an assumption. Humans always think we are the best, the brightest, most superior beings in the universe. We even used to believe we were the center, and reason for the universe. I believe this is just a product of our short sidedness and ego.

Originally posted by The MISTER
6. Emotions can be analyzed but they are still personal to individuals and unique as the individual. Without them life could exist but humans as we know them could not. Truly life for us would be pointless without them so they are a great gift indeed.

Emotions are a product of evolution, and were not created at some arbitrary point in time.

Originally posted by The MISTER
7.Why would the maker of nature be detached from it?

That is a question I usually ask Christians. They believe their god existed before the universe came into being.

Originally posted by The MISTER
8.Thanks is something wanted never needed.

Why would a creator god want?

Originally posted by The MISTER
I'm not trying to convert anyone with these things I've come up with it's just that it seems to me that there is more effort put into not thanking God than thanking him, and I don't understand why.

Thanking God or not thanking God is not important.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Perhaps someone's terminally ill and constantly in pain, lives on the street and all of their family are dead, killed in front of their eyes by a madman. Should they thank God then or perhaps blame him for creating them just to bring so much pain to them? They should write a book.

Originally posted by The MISTER
I just want to know why there is a problem for thanking God for all the gifts we've been given in this life. We thank people when they give us good things.
What has God given us?

Originally posted by The MISTER
The scientific origins of our world are still mysterious but the best things about life are ours and they aren't man-made. The emotions that we experience can be explained scientifically but they are personal to individuals and give us more than simple survival to look forward to.
Like you said, emotions are scientifically explainable. How has God given them to us?

Originally posted by The MISTER
The way our spirits are moved by displays of great love and/or compassion let's us know that we have purposes that we are called to pursue. However we are programmed though (DNA) our greatest gift is the power of choice over our lives.
How was that given by God? Like you said, DNA codes us to have these traits.

Originally posted by The MISTER
We are free to explore this world and influence it with an awareness of the intent behind our actions.We then carry the results of our experiences as a personal reference for future actions.
That's a product of us not being slaves... how does God get the credit?

Originally posted by The MISTER
We can acheive a feeling of spiritual fulfillment when we strive to what we feel is positive and succeed against much adversity. Just thinking about the role that fireman play in life can cause the spirit of love to rise an any man.
So shouldn't we be thanking the fireman then? Where does God enter into the equation?

Originally posted by The MISTER
We've been blessed with an amazing life and the unique ability to be responsible for it beyond simple survival.
An ability that comes from how our brain works, not God.

Originally posted by The MISTER
We usually appreciate what loving parents did for us as infants even though we don't remember it. Likewise we were'nt aware when life for the world was made and molded. We didn't give ourselves anything we simply recieved all that is good in life. There is so much to be grateful for.
Yeah, I really appreciate my parents. There are so many things to be grateful for, and God didn't do any of them.

Originally posted by The MISTER
Why not thank the maker?
Because these things didn't come from him?

There's nothing wrong with thanking whichever God you might believe in.

Easily answered thread is easily answered.

srug

Originally posted by Digi
There's nothing wrong with thanking whichever God you might believe in.

Easily answered thread is easily answered.

srug But there seems to be a whole lot of effort put in disproving God with science as if that could ever be done. Why is it considered proof against God when we make new discoveries about the world we live in? Evolution/Adaptation is something that we can actually see within our lifespans. How it's considered proof against God surprises me. As if creation makes more sense when it's simple and as soon as it shows a complexity that we can only theorize on God has been disproven.

I respect my fellow posters beliefs whether I share them or not. Whether or not we have a maker to give thanks to is a belief that will be based in faith even if scientific theories is all a person believes. Existence still has an endless number of mysteries for us to explore and we will never know everything....Thanks for responding all of you.

Originally posted by The MISTER
But there seems to be a whole lot of effort put in disproving God with science as if that could ever be done.

There isn't.

Originally posted by The MISTER
Why is it considered proof against God when we make new discoveries about the world we live in?

It's not. But when a religion says "god says the world works this way" and we prove it wrong then we've disproven that particular god. Repeat a few hundred times and one starts to think of gods as rather unreliable.

Originally posted by The MISTER
But there seems to be a whole lot of effort put in disproving God with science as if that could ever be done. Why is it considered proof against God when we make new discoveries about the world we live in? Evolution/Adaptation is something that we can actually see within our lifespans. How it's considered proof against God surprises me. As if creation makes more sense when it's simple and as soon as it shows a complexity that we can only theorize on God has been disproven.

I respect my fellow posters beliefs whether I share them or not. Whether or not we have a maker to give thanks to is a belief that will be based in faith even if scientific theories is all a person believes. Existence still has an endless number of mysteries for us to explore and we will never know everything....Thanks for responding all of you.

I think that may actually be a fear more on the part of religious people or perhaps more accurately religious leaders, as it may be true that a pursuit of scientific ideals may make many people distance themselves from religious beliefs, however you are right that they aren't necessarily exclusive (though it can be used to disprove claims that are within the scientific realm)

Originally posted by The MISTER
But there seems to be a whole lot of effort put in disproving God with science as if that could ever be done. Why is it considered proof against God when we make new discoveries about the world we live in? Evolution/Adaptation is something that we can actually see within our lifespans. How it's considered proof against God surprises me. As if creation makes more sense when it's simple and as soon as it shows a complexity that we can only theorize on God has been disproven. It's not proof against God. Empirical explanations simply render God unnecessary.

Think of it as a minimalist approach.

Originally posted by King Kandy
What has God given us?


You're breathing, aren't you?

If you're a believer ^that's reason enough to be thankful. If you don't believe, then you're right; there's no point at all.

Originally posted by King Kandy
What has God given us?

A comic book called the Bible.

But it's not something to be really thankful about.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
A comic book called the Bible.

Nope, the manga version of the Bible was made by Hidenori Kumai not God.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
You're breathing, aren't you?

If you're a believer ^that's reason enough to be thankful. If you don't believe, then you're right; there's no point at all.

What if I have a lung tumor and every breath is immensely painful?

you should feel blessed that the lord blessed you with two lungs. drylaugh

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
You're breathing, aren't you?

If you're a believer ^that's reason enough to be thankful. If you don't believe, then you're right; there's no point at all.
But even if you believe, how would that invalidate the science showing that in fact it is your lungs that cause you to breath?

Originally posted by Bardock42
... a lot of people have pretty bad lifes and should perhaps rather blame him.

But that assumes that those people should believe in a petty, meddling, God, not one that very rarely takes action in his childrens' lives. I believe in the latter form, of course. I believe in the God that doesn't help chickens out of their eggs but instead, built the chicken coop and placed the eggs there with random hens that may are may not take care of them properly.


Originally posted by King Kandy
But even if you believe, how would that invalidate the science showing that in fact it is your lungs that cause you to breath?

I would then disagree and say it is my diafram that makes me breath and, still further, I would say that it was my brain stem that makes me breath.

Originally posted by dadudemon
But that assumes that those people should believe in a petty, meddling, God, not one that very rarely takes action in his childrens' lives. I believe in the latter form, of course. I believe in the God that doesn't help chickens out of their eggs but instead, built the chicken coop and placed the eggs there with random hens that may are may not take care of them properly.

That is not required, though, even if he doesn't meddle at all and he is omniscient or at least knows what will happen he is to blame for create people that suffer a lot. If he has the ability to ease the suffering and does not or the knowledge that it will happen he is to blame for it.

Additionally your example again only works for suffering caused by other humans, which would be fair enough (though still his fault if he knew or if he could intervene like I explained in the first part), but much, maybe even most of the suffering doesn't come from other humans, it comes from the extremely faulty "chicken coop". Cancer, scarcity of food and water, bacteria and viri, volcanic eruptions, earthquakes, animal attacks, AIDS are all not things that humans with free will bring onto themselves or other humans (it may be used to further suffering or by accident, but it all only exists cause God, if he exists, is a somewhat evil or at least pretty creator)

And I understand that many Christians (you Mormons too I believe) think that suffering is necessary to know joy, which is an interesting argument, but doesn't take any of the blame for a horrible life of a person away from God.

Originally posted by King Castle
if god existed i blame god for being created and living this life as for now i'll just blame my mom and throw it in her face from time to time..

They can thank God for staying alive and I am sure they have other blessings as well.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
There isn't.



It's not. But when a religion says "god says the world works this way" and we prove it wrong then we've disproven that particular god. Repeat a few hundred times and one starts to think of gods as rather unreliable. I would agree that people thus their religions are unreliable. But why does that equal a lack of faith in a maker? Shouldn't that be something personal that is not influenced by peoples beliefs which have been proven to be all screwed up. ( A group thought is almost always full of ignorance and arrogance.) Why do people feel that coincidence is powerful enough to create such a complex world and then give humans the only tools capable of exploring it. If we were allowed enough years there is no limit to the possibilities of places we could go. No other creature that we're aware has imaginations of light speed travel and manipulating portals to other dimensions. Surely there is something special that has been given to humans in our awareness of the past and future. We are also aware of good and evil because of our ability to predict the outcome of our actions. It just seems to suggest a system of accountability to me.

Originally posted by The MISTER
I would agree that people thus their religions are unreliable. But why does that equal a lack of faith in a maker?

Because the only "evidence" of god comes from religions, unless you pray to the god of the gaps.

Originally posted by The MISTER
Why do people feel that coincidence is powerful enough to create such a complex world and then give humans the only tools capable of exploring it.

Because the universe is a sphere that is billions of light-years across. Trillion to one chances should happen all the time.

Originally posted by The MISTER
No other creature that we're aware has imaginations of light speed travel and manipulating portals to other dimensions. Surely there is something special that has been given to humans in our awareness of the past and future. We are also aware of good and evil because of our ability to predict the outcome of our actions. It just seems to suggest a system of accountability to me.

Not to me. Those are all very useful traits. How long would you survive if you couldn't imagine the consequence of your actions? How long would our species survive if everyone was a murderous nutcase?

The interesting thing, IMO, about blaming God for suffering (whether by other people or 'natural' events, eg, disease, hurricanes, etc), is that, if we following this line of reasoning -- God is responsible for all things because He created this set-up -- we have to conclude that God created the sufferers as well. Put another way: if All is God, then ultimately, God is just screwin' with Himself for reasons only He is privy to.

It would also mean that, when I "Thank God," God is ultimately thanking Himself.

Oy. What a character.

Originally posted by Mindship
The interesting thing, IMO, about blaming God for suffering (whether by other people or 'natural' events, eg, disease, hurricanes, etc), is that, if we following this line of reasoning -- God is responsible for all things because He created this set-up -- we have to conclude that God created the sufferers as well. Put another way: if All is God, then ultimately, God is just screwin' with Himself for reasons only He is privy to.

It would also mean that, when I "Thank God," God is ultimately thanking Himself.

Oy. What a character.

I think you've been doing a step from creating everything to being everything, I don't think those need be the same.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I think you've been doing a step from creating everything to being everything, I don't think those need be the same. God, as colloquially conceived, can certainly be discussed with that distinction (and it raises an interesting set of questions in its own right). However, the esoteric traditions (Western as well as Eastern) do see them as one and the same.

Originally posted by Mindship
God, as colloquially conceived, can certainly be discussed with that distinction (and it raises an interesting set of questions in its own right). However, the esoteric traditions (Western as well as Eastern) do see them as one and the same.

I don't think that's true at all. However I am not exactly sure what you consider esoteric traditions.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I don't think that's true at all. However I am not exactly sure what you consider esoteric traditions. Mysticism. God as revealed by meditation (meditation and prayer in the Western faiths). Basically, if God is everything, then there can be no separate creator of everything, for that creator, too, is of God. Think of the relationship you, as a dreamer, have with your dreams. All that you experience while dreaming comes from you and is you (barring the occasional sensory intrusion).

Originally posted by Mindship
Mysticism. God as revealed by meditation (meditation and prayer in the Western faiths). Basically, if God is everything, then there can be no separate creator of everything, for that creator, too, is of God. Think of the relationship you, as a dreamer, have with your dreams. All that you experience while dreaming comes from you and is you (barring the occasional sensory intrusion).

I understand the concept, it's just not the common belief of most Religions as far as I can tell. Most modern Christianity seems to believe in a separate creator or personal God.

If you are just saying that "if God is everything" then fair enough of course..

Originally posted by Bardock42
I understand the concept, it's just not the common believe of most Religions as far as I can tell. Most modern Christianity seems to believe in a separate creator or personal God. Indeed. This is God as colloquially understood. Organized religion has done a bang-up job at watering it all down.

" god is great, and god is good, and let us thank god for our food, we may well have more than we need and god well yet have mouths to feed, but god is great, and god is good, and someday soon, he'll feed you, too, 'cause once we've got our yachts and crowns, god planned some food to trickle down, so just keep those thoughts holy, be patient and be pious, and hallelujah! God'll grant your prayers, hosanna in the highest!"

Originally posted by Bardock42
That is not required, though, even if he doesn't meddle at all and he is omniscient or at least knows what will happen he is to blame for create people that suffer a lot. If he has the ability to ease the suffering and does not or the knowledge that it will happen he is to blame for it.

I think you kind of missedmissed the point of my post (later, you redeem yourself, though).

Do you understand why you are not supposed to help a chicken out of it's egg when it's hatching? This is why God doesn't mettle. He helps when it's necessary, from his higher understanding of humanity. I have VERY rarely seen any of God's work, in my own life. So rare, that I can count it on one hand. How many times did I ask for help or look for His hand in something?

Out of the trillions upon trillions of His children, why would he help me pass a test that I didn't bother studying for? That makes little sense.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Additionally your example again only works for suffering caused by other humans, which would be fair enough (though still his fault if he knew or if he could intervene like I explained in the first part), but much, maybe even most of the suffering doesn't come from other humans, it comes from the extremely faulty "chicken coop". Cancer, scarcity of food and water, bacteria and viri, volcanic eruptions, earthquakes, animal attacks, AIDS are all not things that humans with free will bring onto themselves or other humans (it may be used to further suffering or by accident, but it all only exists cause God, if he exists, is a somewhat evil or at least pretty creator)

And I understand that many Christians (you Mormons too I believe) think that suffering is necessary to know joy, which is an interesting argument, but doesn't take any of the blame for a horrible life of a person away from God.

Again, most of human suffering comes from other humans...minus "nature" items that you mentioned. Again, in order to know light, you must know darkness. The whole point of coming here is to grow and mature, spiritually, so we can be more worthy of higher responsibilities in the next life. That's why this is called the "probationary state": we are trying to improve ourselves.

And, imo, this chicken coop is awesome. It certainly is proving to be much more conducive to life than any other planet we have observed in the cosmos. That bacteria is just trying it's best to survive, as well. That virus is doing what natural selection has "trained" it to do. Just because we can do calculus, doesn't mean all other life ceases to be important.


Who knows, God might have a set of children almost infinitely more intelligent and "righteous" than we humans are.


Also, Humans are solving most of their "problems" of nature, on their own. Something that God also had to have foreseen.


If you want a world were there is no suffering and only joy, then you would not have been born and, instead, would have remained, eternally, as a spirit, dammed in your learning and understanding, with God.