Superman vs Silver Surfer (tournament style)

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psycho gundam
superman vs surfer, but this version is with tournament style rules in play, i.e. no rules no expression (actually, no cis and other things.)

- both characters know what WE know of either of them, and will try and put each other down using that knowledge without holding back as any of us would have them act in an actual tournament setting. we control them

- to allow both sides a more fair attempt to use their powers, they fight in a simulacrum universe (minus heroes and villain) with a populated earth (human citizens, plant, and animal life), planets, and stars.

- no prep

Black bolt z
Black hole FTW

Nihilist
Originally posted by Black bolt z
Black hole FTW Superman has held open black holes.

McNasty996
Weakness exploitation ftw

King Castle
Originally posted by Nihilist
Superman has held open black holes. held open? or fisted a small micro blackhole that was forming?

or escape between two blackholes through the weak point of the opposing forces creating a battle neck for him to escape? confused

BattleMage
Originally posted by King Castle
held open? or fisted a small micro blackhole that was forming?

or escape between two blackholes through the weak point of the opposing forces creating a battle neck for him to escape? confused

King Kandy
SS in a complete absolute stomp 10/10/

ares834
Superman combos to KO.

smokin'

illadelph12
Surfer.

Too many options.

It's not a slight to Superman that Surfer is simply equipped to beat him, btw. Superman's still the 'better' hero.

King Castle
Originally posted by illadelph12
Surfer.

Too many options.

It's not a slight to Superman that Surfer is simply equipped to beat him, btw. Superman's still the 'better' hero. i agree since Silver Surfer isnt technacailly a hero anymore then lobo or adam warlock or thanos would be. its not his job description. rolling on floor laughing rolling on floor laughing laughing out loud

-Pr-
While I would have initially gone with Surfer, I think Superman can definitely take a few wins based on what kind of information Surfer has about Superman...

Omega Vision
Will Surfer have time to pull any exotic powers when he's getting reamed by his own surfboard? biscuits

King Castle
general knowledge rule apply?

if so SS would have all the knowledge he need. smokin'

-Pr-
Originally posted by King Castle
general knowledge rule apply?

if so SS would have all the knowledge he need. smokin'

under normal general knowledge he wouldn't, actually. with this thread, though, it becomes different. possibly worse.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by -Pr-
While I would have initially gone with Surfer, I think Superman can definitely take a few wins based on what kind of information Surfer has about Superman... just to clarify; these characters are just tools at the moment, and are controlled by how we would use them

for example superman can fly at max speed and try and kill surfer from the get go, he can do it so it's fair. sun amping/dipping, vibrating, etc, all fair game

scans are good also, being tourney style and all

-Pr-
Originally posted by psycho gundam
just to clarify; these characters are just tools at the moment, and are controlled by how we would use them

for example superman can fly at max speed and try and kill surfer from the get go, he can do it so it's fair. sun amping/dipping, vibrating, etc, all fair game

scans are good also, being tourney style and all

which is exactly why i feel superman actually has a chance, dependent on who's giving him the information.

psycho gundam
it's a collective effort, if you rep superman, add to the argument that he stomps in this type of scenario since holding back and whatnot is out the window

kill surfer with superman's vast array of showings

King Castle
Originally posted by psycho gundam
just to clarify; these characters are just tools at the moment, and are controlled by how we would use them

for example superman can fly at max speed and try and kill surfer from the get go, he can do it so it's fair. sun amping/dipping, vibrating, etc, all fair game

scans are good also, being tourney style and all but in comics Superman has stated he doesnt go full speed in residential areas or around certain natural environmental location due to causing massive upheaval.

plus, Superman has never speed fought at ftl speed as far as i know.

SS can use his nano level processing information to analyze superman or react to the blitz raising his shield or going intangible.

from there he can perform whatever attack he needs to b4 superman can begin to vibrate and "try" to find a frequency he can interact with surfer with.

-Pr-
Originally posted by psycho gundam
it's a collective effort, if you rep superman, add to the argument that he stomps in this type of scenario since holding back and whatnot is out the window

kill surfer with superman's vast array of showings

so both men have the collective information of every member on kmc?

King Castle
Silver surfer still stomps.. the boyscout alien who wishes to be a man.

psycho gundam
uhhhh

it doesn't matter right now. in tournaments we never care about anything but defeating our opponent, all that matters are feats and proving your character's superiority

-Pr-
Originally posted by psycho gundam
uhhhh

it doesn't matter right now. in tournaments we never care about anything but defeating our opponent, all that matters are feats and proving your character's superiority

lol sorry man.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by -Pr-
lol sorry man. no problem

Black bolt z
Originally posted by -Pr-
under normal general knowledge he wouldn't, actually. with this thread, though, it becomes different. possibly worse. Yes he would.Its general knowledge that hes hurt by kryptonite.What its made of though...

-Pr-
Originally posted by Black bolt z
Yes he would.Its general knowledge that hes hurt by kryptonite.What its made of though...

He knows that Kryptonite hurts him. That's pretty much it. Not that I would think it would make a whole lot of difference...

darthgoober
Surfer listens to my advice and pulls an easy win via ramming his board into Supes neck at 1,000 times lightspeed while it's charged with red sun energy or transmuting his costume into Gold K-nite...

psycho gundam
Originally posted by darthgoober
Surfer listens to my advice and pulls an easy win via ramming his board into Supes neck at 1,000 times lightspeed while it's charged with red sun energy or transmuting his costume into Gold K-nite... see, he got it from jump

I still belive in better

-Pr-
Originally posted by darthgoober
Surfer listens to my advice and pulls an easy win via ramming his board into Supes neck at 1,000 times lightspeed while it's charged with red sun energy or transmuting his costume into Gold K-nite...

^ Exactly why I think Superman would get wins.

darthgoober
Originally posted by -Pr-
^ Exactly why I think Superman would get wins.
You think he wins cause he gets decapitated confused ?

-Pr-
Originally posted by darthgoober
You think he wins cause he gets decapitated confused ?

Nope.

Because when Surfer tries to use Kryptonite and it doesn't work, the last thing that will go through his head before Superman's fist is "wtf?".

darthgoober
Originally posted by -Pr-
Nope.

Because when Surfer tries to use Kryptonite and it doesn't work, the last thing that will go through his head before Superman's fist is "wtf?".
And why wouldn't it work again?

And why does K-nite matter anyway when my initial idea was decapitation via red sun/surfboard?

King Castle
b/c he doesnt want superman to die..

anyways.. faster then light surfboard charged with red light should at the very least knock him the F#$%$ out.

darthgoober
Originally posted by King Castle
b/c he doesnt want superman to die..

anyways.. faster then light surfboard charged with red light should at the very least knock him the F#$%$ out.
Red Sun's been rectonned, it now shuts off Supes's powers completely rather than just weaken him. Every cell Surfer's board comes into contact with will become effectively "human" so it's pretty much a guaranteed decapitation...

King Castle
Originally posted by darthgoober
Red Sun's been rectonned, it now shuts off Supes's powers completely rather than just weaken him. Every cell Surfer's board comes into contact with will become effectively "human" so it's pretty much a guaranteed decapitation... i/m trying to make a compromise on behalf of someone here who will remain nameless. smokin'

-Pr-
Originally posted by darthgoober
And why wouldn't it work again?

And why does K-nite matter anyway when my initial idea was decapitation via red sun/surfboard?

we're not getting in to this lol.

i'll make the point that i don't believe surfer has the sufficient CA to find out what kryptonite is made of, and even if he did how it wouldnt matter as it wasnt native kryptonite.
you'll no doubt post some scans that i've seen before, and we'll go round in circles.

and i don't believe red sun will work the way you think it does, but again, not getting in to it.

stick out tongue

darthgoober
Originally posted by -Pr-
we're not getting in to this lol.

i'll make the point that i don't believe surfer has the sufficient CA to find out what kryptonite is made of, and even if he did how it wouldnt matter as it wasnt native kryptonite.
you'll no doubt post some scans that i've seen before, and we'll go round in circles.

and i don't believe red sun will work the way you think it does, but again, not getting in to it.

stick out tongue
Oh come on you know you want to. Pretty the only people who ever try to argue the K-nite thing are stupid, so it'll be relief to discuss it with someone with a brain.

I just think it works the way DC rectonned it to work now, am I wrong as to what they said about it? I mean didn't they say that Red Sunlight shuts off his powers completely?

-Pr-
Originally posted by darthgoober
Oh come on you know you want to. Pretty the only people who ever try to argue the K-nite thing are stupid, so it'll be relief to discuss it with someone with a brain.

I just think it works the way DC rectonned it to work now, am I wrong as to what they said about it? I mean didn't they say that Red Sunlight shuts off his powers completely?

the red sun does shut his powers off, but (imo) only if there's no yellow sunlight hitting his skin. the problem is that red sun since then has been pretty vague in its appearances.

the kryptonite was a retcon by geoff johns in infinite crisis that he's only referenced twice in total that i know of.

darthgoober
Originally posted by -Pr-
the red sun does shut his powers off, but (imo) only if there's no yellow sunlight hitting his skin. the problem is that red sun since then has been pretty vague in its appearances.

the kryptonite was a retcon by geoff johns in infinite crisis that he's only referenced twice in total that i know of.
Yeah but his board's not transparent, if its making contact with Supes's skin then it's simaltaniously blocking yellow sunlight/exposing him to red sun.

K-nite from another universe not working isn't a recent recton, that's been the way it is since before the Original Crisis if I'm remembering right. It doesn't mean that someone from another universe can't create some that will affect him, it just means that the recipe they already have access to is doomed. If Surfer got the recipe from Supes himself he'd get a version that worked...

-Pr-
Originally posted by darthgoober
Yeah but his board's not transparent, if its making contact with Supes's skin then it's simaltaniously blocking yellow sunlight/exposing him to red sun.

K-nite from another universe not working isn't a recent recton, that's been the way it is since before the Original Crisis if I'm remembering right. It doesn't mean that someone from another universe can't create some that will affect him, it just means that the recipe they already have access to is doomed. If Surfer got the recipe from Supes himself he'd get a version that worked...

but at the speed you're talking about, you really think superman won't try to dodge it?

sorry. i meant it's only been cemented in recent years. there've been times when kryptonite shouldn't have worked when it did, so that was where there was a problem. with johns being head boy at dc though, i don't see it happening again.

i don't see surfer getting it from him anyways. stick out tongue

Omega Vision
Has he done the board ramming thing on anyone with Superman level speed and reflexes?

darthgoober
Originally posted by -Pr-
but at the speed you're talking about, you really think superman won't try to dodge it?

sorry. i meant it's only been cemented in recent years. there've been times when kryptonite shouldn't have worked when it did, so that was where there was a problem. with johns being head boy at dc though, i don't see it happening again.

i don't see surfer getting it from him anyways. stick out tongue
Has Supes ever dodged something that was moving at over 1,000 times lightspeed? Even if he has, how would he mount any kind of offense if he spent the whole time doing his best to stay the f*ck away from Surfer? It would just be a matter of time, eventually Surfer would always win even if he didn't throw Supes a curve and alter his tactics slightly...

Yeah but what makes you think that things like the Cosmic King were mistakes? The idea is that K-nite from X universe can't hurt Kryptonian from Y universe, it's never been said to my knowledge that a character from X universe can't create K-nite from Y universe.

-Pr-
Originally posted by darthgoober
Has Supes ever dodged something that was moving at over 1,000 times lightspeed? Even if he has, how would he mount any kind of offense if he spent the whole time doing his best to stay the f*ck away from Surfer? It would just be a matter of time, eventually Surfer would always win even if he didn't throw Supes a curve and alter his tactics slightly...

Yeah but what makes you think that things like the Cosmic King were mistakes? The idea is that K-nite from X universe can't hurt Kryptonian from Y universe, it's never been said to my knowledge that a character from X universe can't create K-nite from Y universe.

and this is why i didn't want to get in to it. stick out tongue

it was pre johns.

darthgoober
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Has he done the board ramming thing on anyone with Superman level speed and reflexes?
Hard to say... has Supes ever dodged anything moving as fast as Surfer's board can move?

darthgoober
Originally posted by -Pr-
and this is why i didn't want to get in to it. stick out tongue

it was pre johns.
Why... cause he hasn't stick out tongue .

Yeah but has John's ever said that it's impossible for characters to create K-nite from another universe, or just that K-nite from another universe won't affect Supes?

-Pr-
Originally posted by darthgoober
Why... cause he hasn't stick out tongue .

Yeah but has John's ever said that it's impossible for characters to create K-nite from another universe, or just that K-nite from another universe won't affect Supes?

i honestly don't believe surfer can do that with his board. i know you don't agree, hence trouble.

it's the latter i think. i don't see any reason why if surfer knew the composition of kryptonite that he wouldn't be able to make it. it's the effectiveness that i'd argue about.

but i won't. stick out tongue

Omega Vision
Originally posted by darthgoober
Hard to say... has Supes ever dodged anything moving as fast as Surfer's board can move?
Nice dodge. No pun intended.

darthgoober
Originally posted by -Pr-
i honestly don't believe surfer can do that with his board. i know you don't agree, hence trouble.

it's the latter i think. i don't see any reason why if surfer knew the composition of kryptonite that he wouldn't be able to make it. it's the effectiveness that i'd argue about.

but i won't. stick out tongue
What, charge his board with energy to use offensively? Of course he can...

http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/X-menUnlimited13-32.jpg
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/X-menUnlimited13-33.jpg

Effectiveness how? Are you still talking about the alternate universe thing or about Supes resistance to the substance? Because he doesn't really have any resistance to Gold K-nite that I'm aware of...

darthgoober
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Nice dodge. No pun intended.
No dodge, it's really hard to say because it depends on how you view Supes's reflexes.

Whether or not Supes has ever dodged anything moving as quickly as Surfer's board is capable of though is pretty simple to answer...

Omega Vision
Originally posted by darthgoober
No dodge, it's really hard to say because it depends on how you view Supes's reflexes.

Whether or not Supes has ever dodged anything moving as quickly as Surfer's board is capable of though is pretty simple to answer...
I view them as significantly greater than Beta Ray Bill's.

I'm pretty sure he's dodged the Flash before.

darthgoober
Originally posted by Omega Vision
I view them as significantly greater than Beta Ray Bill's.

I'm pretty sure he's dodged the Flash before.
You're going to have to be a bit more specific. I mean for that to work as a comparison we'd have to establish what BRB's reflexes are...

Was Flash confirmed as moving at a speed comparible to that which I'm talking about for Surfer or was it just some unquanfied speed?

-Pr-
Originally posted by darthgoober
What, charge his board with energy to use offensively? Of course he can...

http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/X-menUnlimited13-32.jpg
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/X-menUnlimited13-33.jpg

Effectiveness how? Are you still talking about the alternate universe thing or about Supes resistance to the substance? Because he doesn't really have any resistance to Gold K-nite that I'm aware of...

more the speed than the energy. and yes, i'd seen that before. see?

though i do wonder if it can be charged with more exotic energies.

the alternate universe thing.

imo superman's reflexes are around lightspeed, if not slightly above or below it.

darthgoober
Originally posted by -Pr-
more the speed than the energy. and yes, i'd seen that before. see?

though i do wonder if it can be charged with more exotic energies.

the alternate universe thing.

imo superman's reflexes are around lightspeed, if not slightly above or below it.
So you doubt his ability to go 1000x lightspeed... seriously?

Exotic? We're talking about light.

But as we've already established it's never been said that someone from an alternate universe can't create K-nite that won't work, just that K-nite from another universe can't work. That means that previous instances of characters creating K-nite that works on Supes are perfectly valid.

illadelph12
Smh...

Uriel005
Originally posted by darthgoober
So you doubt his ability to go 1000x lightspeed... seriously?

Exotic? We're talking about light.

But as we've already established it's never been said that someone from an alternate universe can't create K-nite that won't work, just that K-nite from another universe can't work. That means that previous instances of characters creating K-nite that works on Supes are perfectly valid.

I just wanted to say that Superman has crossed galactic distances in minutes.... more than a few times. That is a lot faster than 1000x speed of light.

D_Dude1210
Originally posted by Uriel005
I just wanted to say that Superman has crossed galactic distances in minutes.... more than a few times. That is a lot faster than 1000x speed of light.

Scans of him traversing galaxies in minutes post-crisis?

Travel Speed =/= reaction speed.

Also, can't beat this feat:

http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/281/silversurfervol3007nn1.jpg

"Galaxies streak past them in a blur" smile

-Pr-
Originally posted by darthgoober
So you doubt his ability to go 1000x lightspeed... seriously?

Exotic? We're talking about light.

But as we've already established it's never been said that someone from an alternate universe can't create K-nite that won't work, just that K-nite from another universe can't work. That means that previous instances of characters creating K-nite that works on Supes are perfectly valid.

no.

it's not the power cosmic, though. unless it is and i'm forgetting something?

and?

h1a8
Originally posted by darthgoober
Red Sun's been rectonned, it now shuts off Supes's powers completely rather than just weaken him. Every cell Surfer's board comes into contact with will become effectively "human" so it's pretty much a guaranteed decapitation... No it hasn't been. Otherwise Superman would have been dead going through a red sun.

The board can't move very fast in the beginning of Superman's time.
Superman could simply pop Surfer and combo him to ko before the board even gets to Superman.

-Pr-
Shit, i'd forgotten about Infinite Crisis...

King Kandy
Originally posted by h1a8
No it hasn't been. Otherwise Superman would have been dead going through a red sun.

The board can't move very fast in the beginning of Superman's time.
Superman could simply pop Surfer and combo him to ko before the board even gets to Superman.
Except that Surfer's reaction time is as good as Supes'. And if the board will be "slow", so will superman's charge.

quanchi112
Surfer dominates. This is one of Superman's biggest matchup nightmares ever created on his level.

carver9
Originally posted by quanchi112
Surfer dominates. This is one of Superman's biggest matchup nightmares ever created on his level.

I agree with this... surfer is the icing on the cake when it comes to annihilating supes. Even if surfer didn't exploit the weakness against supes I would give him a high majority. Sufer is clearly more powerful by a large gap imo.

darthgoober
Originally posted by -Pr-
no.

it's not the power cosmic, though. unless it is and i'm forgetting something?

and?
Then why did you say you doubted he could hit 1,000 times lightspeed with his board? You said that you honestly didn't believe Surfer could do that with his board and then said you we talking more about the speed than the energy... confused

It's just light, something Surfer's produced from his body before.

And if they've never said that someone from another universe can't create working k-nite there's no reason to think Surfer would be unable to.

darthgoober
Originally posted by h1a8
No it hasn't been. Otherwise Superman would have been dead going through a red sun.

The board can't move very fast in the beginning of Superman's time.
Superman could simply pop Surfer and combo him to ko before the board even gets to Superman.

So there's not a scene where Batman explanes to Supes that red sunlight depowers Supes differently than they thought before?

laughing out loud

quanchi112
Originally posted by carver9
I agree with this... surfer is the icing on the cake when it comes to annihilating supes. Even if surfer didn't exploit the weakness against supes I would give him a high majority. Sufer is clearly more powerful by a large gap imo. I agree to with the more powerful thing. Surfer seems to be deadlier than before in his classic days.

Naija boy
Surfer no contest.

-Pr-
Originally posted by darthgoober
Then why did you say you doubted he could hit 1,000 times lightspeed with his board? You said that you honestly didn't believe Surfer could do that with his board and then said you we talking more about the speed than the energy... confused

It's just light, something Surfer's produced from his body before.

And if they've never said that someone from another universe can't create working k-nite there's no reason to think Surfer would be unable to.

because how fast he can move and how fast he can direct the board are two different things to me.

but has he charged the board with anything that isn't power cosmic?

except that he would need to know it's composition, and there's still the matter of whether johns' retcon applies to new earth superman like the rest of them.

Warlord
surfer overall.
kal might take some

Leobama
tha surfer. and btw, darthgoober's owned this debate lol

StyleTime
Going through the thread, I'm seeing like...the exact same responses I'd see in a regular Superman vs Silver Surfer thread.

I guess everyone debates Silver Surfer in a "tournament style" regardless of the thread stipulations.

darthgoober
Originally posted by -Pr-
because how fast he can move and how fast he can direct the board are two different things to me.

but has he charged the board with anything that isn't power cosmic?

except that he would need to know it's composition, and there's still the matter of whether johns' retcon applies to new earth superman like the rest of them.
Why does it matter if he can turn at those speeds if Supes can't get out of the way? Supes has to be able to dodge Surfer's top straitline speeds before Surfer manuverability even becomes an issue.

If you're asking if there's ever been a specific repeat of the feat with another form of energy, no. But he's still got more than enough to credit to support his doing what I've been suggesting...
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/Silver_Surfer_1988_016_12.jpg
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/Silver_Surfer_1988_016_13.jpg

That's where Cosmic Awareness comes in. Yeah but we don't just assume things like that if they DC hasn't said that it's impossible for people from other universes to create working K-nite.

Deadline
Originally posted by -Pr-
Shit, i'd forgotten about Infinite Crisis...

dur

Originally posted by Leobama
tha surfer. and btw, darthgoober's owned this debate lol

yup.

753
Originally posted by illadelph12
Surfer.

Too many options.

It's not a slight to Superman that Surfer is simply equipped to beat him, btw. Superman's still the 'better' hero. The hell he is, SS is the better chaarcter and this is an objective truth.

I'll have him win by shrinking to an atom's size then going into SM's head and expanding.

Bentley
Originally posted by 753
The hell he is, SS is the better chaarcter and this is an objective truth.

I'll have him win by shrinking to an atom's size then going into SM's head and expanding.


laughing out loud

rolling on floor laughing
laughing
Happy Dance Happy Dance Happy Dance Happy Dance Happy Dance

carver9
Originally posted by Leobama
tha surfer. and btw, darthgoober's owned this debate lol

People are crazy to even try to debate against darth... especially regarding surfer. He is honestly one of the best debators on the forum (one dumb is right beside him).

quanchi112
Originally posted by carver9
People are crazy to even try to debate against darth... especially regarding surfer. He is honestly one of the best debators on the forum (one dumb is right beside him). Ahem.....cough....cough.

rotiart
As far as creating kryptonite is that even necessary? Specifically speaking superman is weak to whatever radiation is emitted by the rocks... Right?

When faced against gladiaor his cosmic awareness told him what that specific radiation wave was and he created it...

When thanos and surfer landed on a planet and the inhabitants were dying surfer creating antibodies to negate whatever it was that was killing them...

I think as long as surfer knows what the item is, he can recreate it.

Parmaniac
Could someone post a real FIGHTING speed feat for surfer? Cause I've only seen him being very fast while travelling on his board.

illadelph12
Well, there is that feat of him taking on an armada and zipping around blasting each ship nearly simultaneously, but he was on his board flying. And there's the navagating an asteroid field going multiples of light. Surfer doesn't tend to combo to ko people so there's not a lot of scans of that, he's more of the Morgan Freeman "Shoot this muthaf*cka" type.

darthgoober
Originally posted by Parmaniac
Could someone post a real FIGHTING speed feat for surfer? Cause I've only seen him being very fast while travelling on his board.
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/1935/silversurfer199003316ik9.jpg

Deadline
Originally posted by darthgoober
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/1935/silversurfer199003316ik9.jpg

I think he means h2h or close combat.

753
Originally posted by Parmaniac
Could someone post a real FIGHTING speed feat for surfer? Cause I've only seen him being very fast while travelling on his board. BRB godhunter

753
weakness exploitation really isn't necessary here, SS has so many defensive options such as intangibility, teleportation, force-fields, dimensional travel, shrinking, etc. He can handle supes and blast until the damage builts or use his more exotic powers to atempt a oneshot

darthgoober
Originally posted by Deadline
I think he means h2h or close combat.
IDK, that would be a pretty silly request for it's specificness. Surfer's arms and torso moved everybit as much in my multi-image attack scan as they would have if he'd throw an equal number of punches...

Deadline
Originally posted by darthgoober
IDK, that would be a pretty silly request in it's specificness. Surfer's arms and torso moved everybit as much in my multi-image attack scan as they would have if he'd throw an equal number of punches...

I really don't think so, for starters hes moving some distance before he moves his body and limbs not the same as fighting with an opponent in close combat who has FTL reflexes.

753
Originally posted by darthgoober
IDK, that would be a pretty silly request for it's specificness. Surfer's arms and torso moved everybit as much in my multi-image attack scan as they would have if he'd throw an equal number of punches... the things is taht h2h is irrelevant for the SS, SM is the brawler, not him. He can just go nova or become intangible when SM goes at him

darthgoober
Originally posted by Deadline
I really don't think so, for starters hes moving some distance before he moves his body and limbs not the same as fighting with an opponent in close combat who has FTL reflexes.
He's still lauching and dodging multiple attacks. I'm not using the scan to establish his level of combat speed, just to prove that he definately has it.

Deadline
Originally posted by darthgoober
He's still lauching and dodging multiple attacks. I'm not using the scan to establish his level of combat speed, just to prove that he definately has it.

Ah ok.

KuRuPT Thanosi
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Has he done the board ramming thing on anyone with Superman level speed and reflexes?

Why do some people ask stupid questions like this... That is like me asking has Superman ever dodge a board that can go 1000 times the speed of light made up of red sun radiation? Of course he hasn't... but what does that prove...

illadelph12
I wonder what would happen if Surfer transmuted all of the oxygen or iron in Supes lungs and blood into diamonds or adamantium? Would Supes have a fatal stroke, or would his durability allow him to still be alive, but unable to move?

King Castle
if you ask PR, superman has resisted transmutation.superdur shifty

quanchi112
Originally posted by Deadline
I really don't think so, for starters hes moving some distance before he moves his body and limbs not the same as fighting with an opponent in close combat who has FTL reflexes. Surfer is still dodging and launching an offensive the entire time and is completely under control you act as if he flies blind and has no idea what is going to happen next. I mean just think about it alfheim.

Omega Vision
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Why do some people ask stupid questions like this... That is like me asking has Superman ever dodge a board that can go 1000 times the speed of light made up of red sun radiation? Of course he hasn't... but what does that prove...
It's hardly a stupid question. Acting like hitting BRB with the board and hitting Superman are the same thing is what's stupid.

-Pr-
Originally posted by darthgoober
Why does it matter if he can turn at those speeds if Supes can't get out of the way? Supes has to be able to dodge Surfer's top straitline speeds before Surfer manuverability even becomes an issue.

If you're asking if there's ever been a specific repeat of the feat with another form of energy, no. But he's still got more than enough to credit to support his doing what I've been suggesting...
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/Silver_Surfer_1988_016_12.jpg
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/Silver_Surfer_1988_016_13.jpg

That's where Cosmic Awareness comes in. Yeah but we don't just assume things like that if they DC hasn't said that it's impossible for people from other universes to create working K-nite.

we are never going to agree. ever lol.

Originally posted by King Castle
if you ask PR, superman has resisted transmutation.superdur shifty

if you'd read the comics you'd know he has. more than once.

King Castle
Originally posted by -Pr-
we are never going to agree. ever lol.



if you'd read the comics you'd know he has. more than once. i know.no expression

except the other times when he hasnt. smokin'

like the time he was magically/scientifically de-aged by Klarion.



or when he was screwed with by mixy.

or when he called down the lightning.

or when superman turned into living lightning.

wasnt he also turned int a gorilla in the past?

but, go ahead and use the dominus feat. rolling on floor laughing

-Pr-
wasn't talking about dominus.

and i really hope you're not comparing the surfer to mxy. or even dominus for that matter.

Omega Vision
Originally posted by King Castle



or when he was screwed with by mixy.


I really hope you're not trying to equate Surfer's transmutation with Mxy's reality warping.

King Castle
of course not.

i/m just saying.

or when he was phased into a table. whistle

pointing out it does happen.

Omega Vision
Originally posted by King Castle
of course not.

i/m just saying.

or when he was phased into a table. whistle

pointing out it does happen.
But pretty much anyone below Cube Being would get transmuted by Mxy, so it has as little to no relevance in this debate.

-Pr-
Originally posted by King Castle
of course not.

i/m just saying.

or when he was phased into a table. whistle

pointing out it does happen.

phased in to a table is not transmutation.

it happens rarely, and at the very least about as much as he resists it if not less-so due to his willpower being the deciding factor a lot of the time.

753
Originally posted by -Pr-
phased in to a table is not transmutation.

it happens rarely, and at the very least about as much as he resists it if not less-so due to his willpower being the deciding factor a lot of the time. If his skull had been left phased into the ground, would that have killed him?

-Pr-
Originally posted by 753
If his skull had been left phased into the ground, would that have killed him?

no idea, tbh.

King Castle
Silver surfer has too many options to screw over superman.

one being able to alter his DNA.

h1a8
Originally posted by King Kandy
Except that Surfer's reaction time is as good as Supes'. And if the board will be "slow", so will superman's charge.

Reactions alone isn't what going to prevent Surfer from getting hit. Remember a pro baseball player can hit a 95mph fastball with a high percentage but get knocked the fuk out with a punch to the face. Superman moves faster than the board with the first second anyway.

King Kandy
Originally posted by h1a8
Reactions alone isn't what going to prevent Surfer from getting hit. Remember a pro baseball player can hit a 95mph fastball with a high percentage but get knocked the fuk out with a punch to the face. Superman moves faster than the board with the first second anyway.
How can you prove that Superman moves faster than the board? If Surfer can react, why don't you think he can protect himself in a counter-offensive? Combo to KO suggests a speed/reaction difference that simply does not exist here.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by h1a8
Reactions alone isn't what going to prevent Surfer from getting hit. Remember a pro baseball player can hit a 95mph fastball with a high percentage but get knocked the fuk out with a punch to the face. Superman moves faster than the board with the first second anyway. so you're saying that if the batter is standing at home plate, and the pitcher runs at him and only gets to throw one punch, the batter will get knocked out?

the batter gets to intercept the pitcher with a swing also

Warlord
Originally posted by King Castle
i know.no expression

except the other times when he hasnt. smokin'

like the time he was magically/scientifically de-aged by Klarion.



or when he was screwed with by mixy.

or when he called down the lightning.

or when superman turned into living lightning.

wasnt he also turned int a gorilla in the past?

but, go ahead and use the dominus feat. rolling on floor laughing

you can add Abracadabra and a guy using some sort of chaos magic from a JLA annual (I can search the issue if required)

753
Originally posted by h1a8
Reactions alone isn't what going to prevent Surfer from getting hit. Remember a pro baseball player can hit a 95mph fastball with a high percentage but get knocked the fuk out with a punch to the face. Superman moves faster than the board with the first second anyway. It doesn't matter SS can go intangible and or go red star nova as his first reaction.

h1a8
Originally posted by darthgoober
So there's not a scene where Batman explanes to Supes that red sunlight depowers Supes differently than they thought before?

laughing out loud Doesn't matter as Superman was shown NOT TO BE depowered when in contact with Red Sun radiation.

h1a8
Originally posted by 753
It doesn't matter SS can go intangible and or go red star nova as his first reaction. So can Superman go intangible. SS can't go red star nova.

h1a8
Originally posted by King Kandy
How can you prove that Superman moves faster than the board? If Surfer can react, why don't you think he can protect himself in a counter-offensive? Combo to KO suggests a speed/reaction difference that simply does not exist here. Superman has feats that show him exceeding light speed within the first 3 meters of travel. I calculated all of SS's best feats, none of them show that he can accelerate to light speed within the first 3 meters of travel.

Thus Superman is faster than the board.

Combo to ko principle only requires two things.

1. The first strike gets in and it stuns.
2. Another strike gets in before the stun effect wears off.

Speed differential only pertains to 1. Meaning if Superman can hit SS just once then he can pull the combo to ko off. But if he can't then he can't pull it off. I believe Superman can hit SS since Surfer doesn't have good h2h fighting reactions. We can't translate baseball reflexes with h2h fighting ones. A pro baseball player will get dominated by a pro boxer only punching at 60mph (far less than the 90mph they are used to seeing playing baseball).


Originally posted by psycho gundam
so you're saying that if the batter is standing at home plate, and the pitcher runs at him and only gets to throw one punch, the batter will get knocked out?

the batter gets to intercept the pitcher with a swing also No. After the pitcher gets to him and starts swinging then the batter will get hit (unless he has some h2h fighting reflexes as well).

753
Originally posted by h1a8
So can Superman go intangible. That wont allow him to tag SS while he is intangible. SM vibrates, SS matter manipulates or shifts his mass to other dimensions. He most definitely can.

753
Originally posted by h1a8
if Superman can hit SS just once then he can pull the combo to ko off. Assuming SS would be stunned by one punch to the point of not being able to react, which I doubt. He doesn't need them, he just neds to activate his powers such as intangibility, omnidirectional blast, teleportation, etc.

King Castle
Originally posted by Warlord
you can add Abracadabra and a guy using some sort of chaos magic from a JLA annual (I can search the issue if required) what about the time lex gave him a cancer love child? wink

The Nuul
I still see that H1 doesnt understand what CIS means and still relying on his made up tactic of blitzing right off the bell.

Colossus-Big C
Silver Surfer Wins Both tbh he should win without that much trouble

darthgoober
Originally posted by h1a8
Doesn't matter as Superman was shown NOT TO BE depowered when in contact with Red Sun radiation.
And he's shown to be depowered pretty much instantly also. Showings vary, but if DC's official stance on the matter is that it completely shuts off his powers now when he's exposed to it then that's just the way it is. Showings that ignore DC's policy on the matter are simply instances of bad writing/PIS.

Originally posted by h1a8
So can Superman go intangible. SS can't go red star nova.
Based on what exactly?

h1a8
Originally posted by darthgoober
And he's shown to be depowered pretty much instantly also. Showings vary, but if DC's official stance on the matter is that it completely shuts off his powers now when he's exposed to it then that's just the way it is. Showings that ignore DC's policy on the matter are simply instances of bad writing/PIS. If DC's official stance was that then they would have never had Superman retain his powers from first contact with red sun radiation. Red sun radiation weakens Superman, not instantly takes his powers away. Prolonged exposure will rob him completely of his powers though.

Based off the definition of "going red sun nova" and the non showing of feats.

Originally posted by The Nuul
I still see that H1 doesnt understand what CIS means and still relying on his made up tactic of blitzing right off the bell. OP says CIS is off anyway.


Originally posted by 753
Assuming SS would be stunned by one punch to the point of not being able to react, which I doubt. He doesn't need them, he just neds to activate his powers such as intangibility, omnidirectional blast, teleportation, etc.

Its the definition of STUN i'm using. In a stunned state one cannot make intelligible action as they are stupefied or in a temporary form of paralysis.

SS can't teleport. And you have to prove that he can activate intangibility or an omnidirectional blast before Superman can hit him.

It can possibly take 1.02 seconds for SS to activate intangibility, I'm not going to assume he can do it before Superman can pop him one.

Originally posted by 753
He most definitely can. Define it first, then prove that he has, then finally, prove that he can here.

darthgoober
Originally posted by h1a8
If DC's official stance was that then they would have never had Superman retain his powers from first contact with red sun radiation. Red sun radiation weakens Superman, not instantly takes his powers away. Prolonged exposure will rob him completely of his powers though.

Based off the definition of "going red sun nova" and the non showing of feats.
It's called a recton man, it was one way for a while but now it's another. And if they wanted it to take prolonged exposure, their wouldn't be instances of him being pretty much instantly depowered by it.

You mean based off YOUR definition of "going red sun nova" right? And I already posted a feat of Surfer giving off a nova's worth of light.

h1a8
Originally posted by darthgoober
It's called a recton man, it was one way for a while but now it's another. And if they wanted it to take prolonged exposure, their wouldn't be instances of him being pretty much instantly depowered by it. No! A recton doesn't invalidate a past feat as never happening, rather, it justs re explains it.
Yes, the definition that's in my mind.

Re post the feat of SS giving off a nova's worth of light then.

753
Originally posted by h1a8
If DC's official stance was that then they would have never had Superman retain his powers from first contact with red sun radiation. Red sun radiation weakens Superman, not instantly takes his powers away. Prolonged exposure will rob him completely of his powers though. He has been instantly depowered by the artificial red sun luthor's weapon created.

His durabilty is enough not to be stunned, he reacts and fights while being injured all the time.
Christ don't you get tired of being wrong all the time? He has teleported and his reactions are at least in the nanoseconds timeframe. Just go to his respect thread.
0.2 seconds and not 1.02 seconds is the average human reaction time, which I assume is what you were getting at. SS's is shorter than a nanosecond.
He can generate and manipulate any frequency of radiation which is a well established fact and he has 'gone nova' as in blasting in all directions with an absurd amount of energy that briefly matches a nova star.

753
Originally posted by h1a8
No! A recton doesn't invalidate a past feat as never happening, rather, it justs re explains it.
Yes, the definition that's in my mind.

Re post the feat of SS giving off a nova's worth of light then. Reposted http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/Silver_Surfer_1988_016_12.jpg

http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/Silver_Surfer_1988_016_13.jpg

darthgoober
Originally posted by h1a8
No! A recton doesn't invalidate a past feat as never happening, rather, it justs re explains it.
Yes, the definition that's in my mind.

Re post the feat of SS giving off a nova's worth of light then.
WRONG! A recton DOES invalidate anything already established that contradicts the nature of the recton.

Look back a page or two man...

darthgoober
Originally posted by 753
Reposted http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/Silver_Surfer_1988_016_12.jpg

http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/Silver_Surfer_1988_016_13.jpg
Here's another one to support it too...

http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/Silver_Surfer_1988_017_17.jpg
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/Silver_Surfer_1988_017_18.jpg

Philosophía
This set-up favors Superman rather hard, since it guarantees he'll go full-speed mode from the start and Surfer has no answer to that.
I'm a bit amused by most of the posters lack of inability to think for themselves, or think - period.

Surfer is unable to even process Superman moving at full speed - to further suggest that he'd:
- think of this specific method of attack
- scan Superman for weaknesses
- incorporate those weaknesses into the chosen method of attack
- have the mental speed to coordonate the board which has achieved a speed of "1000 times lightspeed" to hit a full-speeding Superman..

..within the fraction of time it takes Superman to be all over his face at the start of the match, is rather asinine. Of course, assuming the known 'different Universe, kryptonite has no effect' rule doesn't apply here in the first place. Or if you cherry pick "James Robinson - one of the worst Superman writers in decades" portrayals - the same way I can pick Superman taking red sun radiation attacks from a Sun-Eater and plowing through them - followed by him taking the equivalent of 50 supernovas to the face and staying conscious.

Superman goes intangible and screams Surfer out of existence. ermmnone

Estacado
^
Surfer ftw.

darthgoober

Philosophía
Originally posted by darthgoober
First things first, you do realize that things like whether or not Surfer thinking of any specific method or scan Supes for weaknesses are irrelevant in this thread, right? Meaning?

Noticed you edited 'red sun radiation' over weakenesses, otherwised I'd have asked you to post how to create kryptonite - because if that weren't the case there's no way Surfer'd know without applying his cosmic senses - assuming that'd work.

I also hope you're not confsing "No CIS/PIS" / "They know what we know" with "I control the character like in a videogame", are you Goob? Because I know Surfer fans do that even in threads that are not with this stipulations.

Edit: missed the "we control them" part.

That still doesn't change anything from my post besides the "thinks of that specific method at the instant the battle starts".

darthgoober

darthgoober

Philosophía
Originally posted by darthgoober
Also the part about his needing to scan Supes. If he only plans to use red sun radiation, sure.

darthgoober

753

D_Dude1210
Yeap, here's how it would go:

Supes speed blitzes.
Supes rains down punches onto the Surfer
Surfer phases and lets the punches/attacks go thru him.
OR Surfer shrinks to microverse size and go inside Supes.
Surfer opens a Singularity inside Supe's brain.
OR Surfer Omniblasts Red Sun Radiation and simply slices Supes in half with his board.

End.

Estacado
But this is Superman!!!!

Power Cosmic II
Originally posted by Estacado
But this is Superman!!!!

even men of steel rust

OneDumbG0
I think from a dead start, Surfer has Superman beat in travelling speed. So maybe the best maneuver for Surfer here would be to zoom away from Superman instantly to a safe distance or, should Superman be following him, just continue keeping slightly beyond reach as I also believe Surfer's top travelling speed beats out Superman's. In either scenario, this should give Surfer more than enough time and wherewithal to charge his body with nova intensity light and just go from there.

Granted, I find the claims that Surfer cannot process Superman's combat speed to be dubious, but this cheesy tactic eliminates the need to belabor that point. Speed kills, right?

D_Dude1210
I really find it hard for ppl to mention that someone travels and maneuvers at thousands of times light speed can't process light-speed attacks. He must bump into meteorites, planets and stars often. O_O ouch...!

roughrider
Originally posted by King Kandy
SS in a complete absolute stomp 10/10/

Silver Surfer sucks the solar energy right out of him.
Superman might not even get close enough to lay a hand on him.

The Nuul
Originally posted by Estacado
But this is Superman!!!!

Starscream M
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I think from a dead start, Surfer has Superman beat in travelling speed. So maybe the best maneuver for Surfer here would be to zoom away from Superman instantly to a safe distance or, should Superman be following him, just continue keeping slightly beyond reach as I also believe Surfer's top travelling speed beats out Superman's. In either scenario, this should give Surfer more than enough time and wherewithal to charge his body with nova intensity light and just go from there.

Granted, I find the claims that Surfer cannot process Superman's combat speed to be dubious, but this cheesy tactic eliminates the need to belabor that point. Speed kills, right? this cheesy tactic is an unlikely one

whereas superman blitzing surfer is very plausible.

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by Starscream M
this cheesy tactic is an unlikely one

whereas superman blitzing surfer is very plausible. Unlikely as in... the Surfer is unlikely to be physically capable of this?

Or unlikely as in... the Surfer would not have the propensity to utilize such a tactic?

The former I disagree with completely. The latter is irrelevant since this is tournament style debate.

Starscream M
oh you're right. didn't see the tournament style rule.

Badabing
These threads are more relevant to the battlezone forum with the similar stipulations. I also don't really want repeat threads in the vs forum. Moved.

h1a8
Originally posted by 753
He has been instantly depowered by the artificial red sun luthor's weapon created. Then he wasn't depowered at first contact with other red sun radiation. I'm going with history here.
No its not. Superman is stronger than anyone SS has faced physically.

He has not teleported under his own power. You must not only show one scan of this but multiple scans of this to prove NOT PIS.

And reaction times has nothing to do with movement times or time of activation. I can press a button in .2sec but the operation after may take 1.2 second to complete.

You must not only prove this by showing a scan, but show other instances of him outputting that type of power.

h1a8
Originally posted by 753
Reposted http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/Silver_Surfer_1988_016_12.jpg

http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/Silver_Surfer_1988_016_13.jpg

Brightness doesn't imply amount of quantity. SS can never and has never outputted the energy of a supernova under his own power.

Some flashlights can get super bright, that doesn't mean they have a lot of energy behind them.

h1a8
Originally posted by darthgoober
Here's another one to support it too...

http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/Silver_Surfer_1988_017_17.jpg
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/Silver_Surfer_1988_017_18.jpg

That proves nothing. Power output and brightness are two different things. Any star can be seen from less than a lightyear away (less than a million million miles). A super nova is far brighter than any star.

Originally posted by darthgoober
WRONG! A recton DOES invalidate anything already established that contradicts the nature of the recton.

Look back a page or two man...

It doesn't invalidate it, it re explains it. What you are referring to never re explained why Superman didn't get depowered instantly from first contact with Red Sun radiation in the past. Thus I consider what you are referring to as bad writing.

I don't know what you mean about look back a page or two.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I think from a dead start, Surfer has Superman beat in travelling speed. So maybe the best maneuver for Surfer here would be to zoom away from Superman instantly to a safe distance or, should Superman be following him, just continue keeping slightly beyond reach as I also believe Surfer's top travelling speed beats out Superman's. In either scenario, this should give Surfer more than enough time and wherewithal to charge his body with nova intensity light and just go from there.

Granted, I find the claims that Surfer cannot process Superman's combat speed to be dubious, but this cheesy tactic eliminates the need to belabor that point. Speed kills, right? Actually the opposite, I calculated all of SS's best feats and NONE of them showed him being able to reach light speed within the first 3meters of travel. Superman on the other hand has shown the ability to exceed light speed within the first 3 meters of travel. Also Superman vibrating through attacks and going intangible in an instant proves he is far faster than SS from rest.

It seems when arguing SS vs. Superman people like to bust out SS speed and reaction abilities to try to show that Superman can't hit him.

What about SS fights with Thor or Thanos, surely those guys are far slower than Superman. Right? I smell bias towards Marvel.

psycho gundam
http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/9024/silversurferv300916.jpg

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/91/silversurferv300917.jpg

if the "weak one" can do that.....

753
Originally posted by h1a8
Brightness doesn't imply amount of quantity. SS can never and has never outputted the energy of a supernova under his own power.

Some flashlights can get super bright, that doesn't mean they have a lot of energy behind them. lol yes it does and the scan makes it unambiguous that he matched the luminous energy output of a nova - whether he matched its thermal energy output is irrelevant here.

753
Originally posted by h1a8
Then he wasn't depowered at first contact with other red sun radiation. I'm going with history here.And Im going with most recent and updated portrayal that has an explanationbehind it. Red stralight blocks the energy in his cells.

lol War Hulk, Thanos, Galactus backhands slaps and punches into the ground by the dozens, he remained in the fight.



Go to his respect thread and look under teleportation or miscelaneous feats. He has done so and you don't understand what PIS is. PIS doesnt apply to rare occurances, PIS apllies to characters not using their powers in ways that are possible to them and consistant with their intellects and moralities because it would ruin the soryline, like Darkseid not BFRing SM into the wall of the universe or flash not using superspeed.

More importantly, READ THE OP this is tournament style. CIS is off and we control the cgaracters.

2 sets of scans were already provided, you deliberately missinterpreted at least one of them and may have missed the other. SS has created a black hole and reignited a star with his energy output on his own, these more than prove it.

753
Originally posted by h1a8
Actually the opposite, I calculated all of SS's best feats and NONE of them showed him being able to reach light speed within the first 3meters of travel. Superman on the other hand has shown the ability to exceed light speed within the first 3 meters of travel. Also Superman vibrating through attacks and going intangible in an instant proves he is far faster than SS from rest. Actually, you never did prove that at all, you just made soime shit up about that time SM hit an albino with HV and then blitzed him with punches that doesn't corroborate your thesis one bit. Besides, even if SM's accelaration is superior, this wouldn't determine the outcome.
Nope. SM can hit SS, it's just that he won't blitz SS as the SS can hang with him in terms of reaction. You are the only person on the whole planet who actually believes the absurd idea that if SM can land one blow, he'll combo to KO. By your very logic, if SS, who has the range and power output advantages, can blast SM once, he can follow it up while SM is stunned and SM'll invariably lose.

Nobody accepts the combo to ko principle h1, everyone thinks it's absurd and comical.

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