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Its common knowledge that a Cube Being is two 2 tiers higher than a Skyfather...

With that said, I am interested in knowing how that might translate with actual numbers. So my question is this: how many Skyfather level beings would it take to equal the power of a Cube Being?

Or rather let me ask the question like this: how many Odins would it take to equal the power of Kubik?

In my honest opinion, it would take more than 10...

Edit: (forgot my own guidelines...doh!) I would guess atleast 25...and thats going by my assumption (and its nothing more than an assumption) that it should take 5-10 Skyfathers to equal an Elder God and 5-10 Elder Gods to equal a Cube Being.

Obviously I took the low end of my guesses in both cases...

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
In my honest opinion, it would take more than 10...

Really ? What in between Cube Beings and Skyfathers,Elder Gods ?

Yep...

Elder Gods are between Skyfathers and Cube Beings...

I think the line can blur somewhat between some Elder Gods and Cube beings. For instance, Kubik would do squat to Agamotto in his realm.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
In my honest opinion, it would take more than 10...

Edit: (forgot my own guidelines...doh!) I would guess atleast 25...and thats going by my assumption (and its nothing more than an assumption) that it should take 5-10 Skyfathers to equal an Elder God and 5-10 Elder Gods to equal a Cube Being.

Obviously I took the low end of my guesses in both cases...

How would an average celestial fit into that equation? Just curious.

Originally posted by Mrblonde
Really ? What in between Cube Beings and Skyfathers,Elder Gods ? the most powerful elder gods like demogorge, chthon, oshtur, set, Rune King Thor


it depends


how many odins would=demogorge or rune king thor?
how many demogorges/ or rune king thors would=kubic?

Rune king thor Pwned like 6 skyfathers
Demogorge could most likely take all of them at the same time

Originally posted by Kasper Gutman
I think the line can blur somewhat between some Elder Gods and Cube beings. For instance, Kubik would do squat to Agamotto in his realm. i think agamotto is above "elder god power level"

kubic himself called him a ascended one


but i dont think it would take 10 elder gods to = a cube being
because merlyn who is cube level had much trouble with chthon

Originally posted by Mshinu
How would an average celestial fit into that equation? Just curious.

As you already know, Kubik stated that a lone Celestial is "several orders of magnitude" more powerful than himself; meaning that a lone Celestial is atleast 100 times more powerful he is...

I truly believe that was hyperbole on Kubiks part as the average Celestial has no feats to suggest they are that far above him...10 times I could buy, but 100 or more!? No way...gotta be hyperbole.

I do, however, believe there should be atleast a x10 gap between Cube Being and Low Abstract...so with that said:


Above Cube Beings should be (IMHO...in order to make everything fit) Abstracts and High End Cosmic Beings; 3 orders of Abstracts/High End Cosmics should suffice:

Low: Love, Hate, Average Celestial.

Mid: Inbetweener, Galactus, Powerful Celestials.

High: Death, Order, Chaos.


Then should come the "GOD" (Supreme Being) tier:

Low: Eternity (logically I think Eternity belongs here, but he jobs so often that he doesnt seem this powerful most of the time), Full Power Galactus.

Mid: Infinity Gauntlet.

High: Living Tribunal, Heart of the Infinite.


Then comes TOAA as the true Supreme Being in comics...

One wonders just what all these Celestial and Abstract beings do.

I mean, Eternity, Galactus, Death, Order the actual concepts, you know what they're up to. They're existing in balance with each other and counteracting their opposite, yadda yadda.

But Celestials? What do they do all day with all that power? There's dozens to hundreds of above-cube level beings who just stand around and look Kirby-esque!

Originally posted by Kasper Gutman
I think the line can blur somewhat between some Elder Gods and Cube beings. For instance, Kubik would do squat to Agamotto in his realm.

I am not sure about that as, from my point of view, Galactus jobbed bigtime to Agamotto; case in point:

1) Galactus's cosmic senses should have immediately alerted him to the fact that he wasnt facing a "mere catapillar" when he encountered Agamotto...

2) With his level of awareness (when Doom had Galactus's power he was immediately aware of every thought from every being on the planet), as soon as Strange realized that physical attacks wouldnt work on Agamotto, Galactus should have instantly been aware of this as well and changed his tactics immediately...Galactus really should know this sort of thing from the get-go IMHO.


When you add that up, I think its pretty easy to see that Galactus jobbed in that fight...

If a Cube Being isnt jobbing, then I think they use the appropiate tactics and crush any Elder God level foe they come to blows with...

Originally posted by Q99
One wonders just what all these Celestial and Abstract beings do.

I mean, Eternity, Galactus, Death, Order the actual concepts, you know what they're up to. They're existing in balance with each other and counteracting their opposite, yadda yadda.

But Celestials? What do they do all day with all that power? There's dozens to hundreds of above-cube level beings who just stand around and look Kirby-esque!

Given what their cosmic "jobs" appear to be, IMHO, they are way overpowered...

Celestials seem to be responsible for creating and experimenting with different forms of life (sentient beings to be exact)...

Thus it makes sense to me that they are able to manipulate and control matter/energy on a large scale as a given planet that must host life must be within its Galaxies GHZ (Galactic Habitable Zone) and its Solar Systems Habitable Zone...

Since conditions to host advance life must fall within such extremely small parameters, then them moving objects of planetary and solar mass around at will makes perfect sense...

What doesnt make sense is them having Galaxy busting power and them being able to affect things on a universal scale as that sort of thing clearly requires more power than their "job" requires them to possess...

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
I am not sure about that as, from my point of view, Galactus jobbed bigtime to Agamotto; case in point:

1) Galactus's cosmic senses should have immediately alerted him to the fact that he wasnt facing a "mere catapillar" when he encountered Agamotto...

2) With his level of awareness (when Doom had Galactus's power he was immediately aware of every thought from every being on the planet), as soon as Strange realized that physical attacks wouldnt work on Agamotto, Galactus should have instantly been aware of this as well and changed his tactics immediately...Galactus really should know this sort of thing from the get-go IMHO.


When you add that up, I think its pretty easy to see that Galactus jobbed in that fight...

If a Cube Being isnt jobbing, then I think they use the appropiate tactics and crush any Elder God level foe they come to blows with...
as i said, kubic said agamotto was one of the ascended ones, he is above kube level

Context please...what exactly does "ascended" mean?

Or rather, why did Kubiks use of that word make you believe that being "ascended" automatically places one above Cube level?

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Given what their cosmic "jobs" appear to be, IMHO, they are way overpowered...

Celestials seem to be responsible for creating and experimenting with different forms of life (sentient beings to be exact)...

Thus it makes sense to me that they are able to manipulate and control matter/energy on a large scale as a given planet that must host life must be within its Galaxies GHZ (Galactic Habitable Zone) and its Solar Systems Habitable Zone...

Since conditions to host advance life must fall within such extremely small parameters, then them moving objects of planetary and solar mass around at will makes perfect sense...

What doesnt make sense is them having Galaxy busting power and them being able to affect things on a universal scale as that sort of thing clearly requires more power than their "job" requires them to possess...
Its for this reason that I tend to treat the Kubik statement as hyperbole.

IMO based on feats individual Celestials (with the possible exceptions of the big names like Tiamut, Exitar, TOAA, and Arishem) are Elder God level. Or at best they warrant their own tier in between Elder God and Cube Being: Celestial Tier.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Context please...what exactly does "ascended" mean?

Or rather, why did Kubiks use of that word make you believe that being "ascended" automatically places one above Cube level? he was wandering the planes of existance and met multiple abstract level guys and he called inbetweener agamotto and some other guys (i think galactus also) "ascended ones"

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Its for this reason that I tend to treat the Kubik statement as hyperbole.

IMO based on feats individual Celestials (with the possible exceptions of the big names like Tiamut, Exitar, TOAA, and Arishem) are Elder God level. Or at best they warrant their own tier in between Elder God and Cube Being: Celestial Tier.

Based purely on feats (and thus not implied power or power based on statements) I agree with this...

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Based purely on feats (and thus not implied power or power based on statements) I agree with this... Didnt set (the elder god) steal arishems power once when he was banish to the center of the earth?

they also chased him off with a cosmic cube though

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
he was wandering the planes of existance and met multiple abstract level guys and he called inbetweener agamotto and some other guys (i think galactus also) "ascended ones"

Not that I disagree that Galactus and the Inbetweener are more powerful than Kubik (as I firmly believe those guys are...or rather should be...more powerful than Kubik is; Agamotto, not sure as I consider the Galactus fight PIS...so I need something more accurate to gauge his power level upon), but just because you refer to someone as ascended, doesnt mean you automatically make them out to be more powerful than yourself.

Agamotto vs Wolverine

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Not that I disagree that Galactus and the Inbetweener are more powerful than Kubik (as I firmly believe those guys are...or rather should be...more powerful than Kubik is; Agamotto, not sure as I consider the Galactus fight PIS...so I need something more accurate to gauge his power level upon), but just because you refer to someone as ascended, doesnt mean you automatically make them out to be more powerful than yourself. he beat up dormammu

@LordofMurder
What doesnt make sense is them having Galaxy busting power and them being able to affect things on a universal scale as that sort of thing clearly requires more power than their "job" requires them to possess...

Odin has galaxy busting power (on panel) yet he knelt to them.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Its for this reason that I tend to treat the Kubik statement as hyperbole.

How could it be hyperbole when Kubik and Kosmos (two full cube beings) were in fear of their continued existence when an un-named Celestal was about to judge them? I think they were literally holding each other out of fright.

Oh and concerning the poll question, how many Odins does it take to equal a cube being, according to this hierarchy of power, about 1 :
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/51954/1159592-thor_annual_1989__014_36_37.jpg

Over NINE-THOUSAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNDDDD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111

arrrgh

Originally posted by zopzop
@LordofMurder
What doesnt make sense is them having Galaxy busting power and them being able to affect things on a universal scale as that sort of thing clearly requires more power than their "job" requires them to possess...

Odin has galaxy busting power (on panel) yet he knelt to them.



How could it be hyperbole when Kubik and Kosmos (two full cube beings) were in fear of their continued existence when an un-named Celestal was about to judge them? I think they were literally holding each other out of fright.
It's hyperbole because before that incident there had never been any indications that Celestials were equal to let alone vastly superior to Cube Beings.

Perhaps bad writing would be a better label than hyperbole, but the point is that the statement came out of the blue.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
It's hyperbole because before that incident there had never been any indications that Celestials were equal to let alone vastly superior to Cube Beings.

Perhaps bad writing would be a better label than hyperbole, but the point is that the statement came out of the blue.

If that statement was hyperbole, the one about Celestials being many orders of magnitude above Cube Beings, then why were two complete cube beings in fear of an un-named Celestials judgment?

Originally posted by zopzop
If that statement was hyperbole, the one about Celestials being many orders of magnitude above Cube Beings, then why were two complete cube beings in fear of an un-named Celestials judgment?
I explained why: bad writing and Celestial wanking.

I'll use the same example I used in a previous thread:

It's like if there was a comic where Mordru cowers in the presence of Klarion the Witch Boy, claiming Klarion to be "many orders of magnitude" above him despite there being no previous indications of this and no overt power-ups done to Klarion to grant such status.

Should we then conclude that Klarion is Elder God+ or should we instead conclude that given prior showings the statement is utter crap? I elect the latter.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I explained why: bad writing and Celestial wanking.

I'll use the same example I used in a previous thread:

It's like if there was a comic where Mordru cowers in the presence of Klarion the Witch Boy, claiming Klarion to be "many orders of magnitude" above him despite there being no previous indications of this and no overt power-ups done to Klarion to grant such status.

Should we then conclude that Klarion is Elder God+ or should we instead conclude that given prior showings the statement is utter crap? I elect the latter.

I don't know who Mordru is so I won't comment on your example.

But it wasn't just that one issue. I provided the link to a scan from the Thor Atlantis Attacks Annual and it stated a complete cube being isn't much more powerful than Odin (if at all) and definitely less than a Celestial in power.

Originally posted by zopzop
@LordofMurder
What doesnt make sense is them having Galaxy busting power and them being able to affect things on a universal scale as that sort of thing clearly requires more power than their "job" requires them to possess...

Odin has galaxy busting power (on panel) yet he knelt to them.



How could it be hyperbole when Kubik and Kosmos (two full cube beings) were in fear of their continued existence when an un-named Celestal was about to judge them? I think they were literally holding each other out of fright.

Does Odin still have Galaxy busting power? Because in Thor 300 he sure as hell didnt; when Odin, Zeus, and Vishnu attacked Arishem as one, the attack only had enough power to knock a planet out of orbit (which is still alot as it actually requires more power to destroy a planet than move it from its orbit...real world physics for the win!).

And if Odin still has Galaxy busting power, he (along with the Celestials) needs a big retcon; Odin is an Earth level deity...why the hell does he need to be able to bust Galaxies!?

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder


Does Odin still have Galaxy busting power? Because in Thor 300 he sure as hell didnt; when Odin, Zeus, and Vishnu attacked Arishem as one, the attack only had enough power to knock a planet out of orbit (which is still alot as it actually requires more power to destroy a planet than move it from its orbit...real world physics for the win!).

And if Odin still has Galaxy busting power, he (along with the Celestials) needs a big retcon; Odin is an Earth level deity...why the hell does he need to be able to bust Galaxies!?




odin isnt the only earth god with galaxy busting power
surtur,seth,Osiris and probably most of the skyfathers all have that power
and being earth level diety means nothing unless you think they are supposed to be silver surfer level

Surfer shouldnt be busting planets either IMHO...

If I was incharge, there would be big fat retcons across the board being handed out as I attempted to inject "some" logic into a medium where almost none exists...


You know, terms like "Galaxy Buster" are thrown around nowadays like destroying a Galaxy is a trivial thing...

How exactly does one "bust a galaxy!?" Because a Galaxy possesses a supermassive black hole in its centre; no matter how much force and energy you hurl at it, it'll just absorb it and its Event Horizon will simply expand in size...

Same applies for the pletora of smaller black holes scattered about every galaxy...

So how does one "bust" something like this?

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Surfer shouldnt be busting planets either IMHO...

If I was incharge, there would be big fat retcons across the board being handed out as I attempted to inject "some" logic into a medium where almost none exists...


You know, terms like "Galaxy Buster" are thrown around nowadays like destroying a Galaxy is a trivial thing...

How exactly does one "bust a galaxy!?" Because a Galaxy possesses a supermassive black hole in its centre; no matter how much force and energy you hurl at it, it'll just absorb it and its Event Horizon will simply expand in size...

Same applies for the pletora of smaller black holes scattered about every galaxy...

So how does one "bust" something like this? Its Magic for the most part,
and yes surfer can destroy planets and create them with out much trouble, BRB and thor can too

he can even create black holes to swallow a solar system iirc
it only makes since for skyfather to be above that

i dont see why you would retcon because DC comics skyfathers are more powerful than marvels

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Does Odin still have Galaxy busting power? Because in Thor 300 he sure as hell didnt; when Odin, Zeus, and Vishnu attacked Arishem as one, the attack only had enough power to knock a planet out of orbit (which is still alot as it actually requires more power to destroy a planet than move it from its orbit...real world physics for the win!).

Yup and it's been upgraded too. Odin and Seth's recent fight shook the multiverse and threaten reality itself.



THANK YOU! I actually agree with you 100% on this. But what's shown on panel is what's shown on panel. Odin shouldn't be able to bust nations, let alone galaxies.

You know, all of this inflation (as pertains comic book character power levels) exists because of Superman...

If the old-school DC writers didnt pump up their golden boy to the extreme levels that they did, its very possible we wouldnt have the level of insane inflation that we have nowadays...

"The Ultimates" attempts (and does a fine job IMHO) of addressing that inflation...and while some of the characters are pretty powerful, they arent "OMFG bust a planet without blinking...LOLOLOLOL" powerful...

Anyway...rant off.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Surfer shouldnt be busting planets either IMHO...

If I was incharge, there would be big fat retcons across the board being handed out as I attempted to inject "some" logic into a medium where almost none exists...


You know, terms like "Galaxy Buster" are thrown around nowadays like destroying a Galaxy is a trivial thing...

How exactly does one "bust a galaxy!?" Because a Galaxy possesses a supermassive black hole in its centre; no matter how much force and energy you hurl at it, it'll just absorb it and its Event Horizon will simply expand in size...

Same applies for the pletora of smaller black holes scattered about every galaxy...

So how does one "bust" something like this?
Why do you read comics if you're going to look for logic?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Why do you read comics if you're going to look for logic?

I read comics because they are entertaining...

But sometimes they go so far off the deep end that it bothers me a bit; Flash running at 13 trillion times the speed of light!??? Pre-Crisis superman casually moving planets out of their orbits!?????

Oh man, being a lover of physics...that makes me wince just thinking about it.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Why do you read comics if you're going to look for logic?

It has nothing to do with logic but good story telling.

How does an Earth god with little to no worshipers accomplish things cosmic beings haven't been shown capable of doing?

In fact how can any Earth god get into even a "mere" planet busting fight without involving other skyfathers from the various pantheons. Since some skyfathers actually have worshipers on Earth and one would assume they wouldn't take it laying down if someone was threatening their power base (their worshipers).

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
I read comics because they are entertaining...

But sometimes they go so far off the deep end that it bothers me a bit; Flash running at 13 trillion times the speed of light!??? Pre-Crisis superman casually moving planets out of their orbits!?????

Oh man, being a lover of physics...that makes me wince just thinking about it. Originally posted by zopzop
It has nothing to do with logic but good story telling.

How does an Earth god with little to no worshipers accomplish things cosmic beings haven't been shown capable of doing?

In fact how can any Earth god get into even a "mere" planet busting fight without involving other skyfathers from the various pantheons. Since some skyfathers actually have worshipers on Earth and one would assume they wouldn't take it laying down if someone was threatening their power base (their worshipers).
I used to kvetch about these sorts of things until one day I realized the futility of it all.

It's fiction, and "good storytelling" is entirely subjective, I personally love a little zany inconsistency now and then.

Originally posted by zopzop
It has nothing to do with logic but good story telling.

How does an Earth god with little to no worshipers accomplish things cosmic beings haven't been shown capable of doing?

In fact how can any Earth god get into even a "mere" planet busting fight without involving other skyfathers from the various pantheons. Since some skyfathers actually have worshipers on Earth and one would assume they wouldn't take it laying down if someone was threatening their power base (their worshipers).

++

This is a pretty tough call.

the power of a cosmic cube is supposedly infinite (yes, I know there's multiple layers of infinity), and as it evolves into a cube being it places self imposed limits on itself, becoming weaker in the process.

So POTENTIALLY, one cube being could wipe out any number of skyfathers. ten would probably even be lowballing it. We don't have a lot of feats for kubik, but Shaper of worlds devastated a significant chunk of the skrull empire before it decided to limit itself. Even AFTER self limitation it still has reality warping abilities on a planetary scale (Odin definitely does NOT) so I'd probably still comfortably put your average cube being (that is, not at full potential) over a decent amount of skyfathers- ten of Odin's class combined might be pushing it though.

Over 10.

Originally posted by zopzop
It has nothing to do with logic but good story telling.

How does an Earth god with little to no worshipers accomplish things cosmic beings haven't been shown capable of doing?

In fact how can any Earth god get into even a "mere" planet busting fight without involving other skyfathers from the various pantheons. Since some skyfathers actually have worshipers on Earth and one would assume they wouldn't take it laying down if someone was threatening their power base (their worshipers). Worshipers have nothing to do with the level of power of a "earth god" Odin power itself is tied into manythings. Just like anyother "being realm"
The Odinforce it Odin and his 2 brothers power combine. PLue The Odinpower was tied into all of Asgard "the realm not the scrape pile it is know. All the skyfathers are way beyond earth anyway those the reason that the coucil of god heads don't get invovled in earths problems "or try not to. Skyfather have been show to have huge amounts of power and the line between elder god and skyfathers is not the great for the must part. Anyway Chaos wars is starting to show the range of the power of the skyfathers once again to beyond earth bound levels

Originally posted by DarkOdin
Worshipers have nothing to do with the level of power of a "earth god" Odin power itself is tied into manythings. Just like anyother "being realm"
The Odinforce it Odin and his 2 brothers power combine. PLue The Odinpower was tied into all of Asgard "the realm not the scrape pile it is know. All the skyfathers are way beyond earth anyway those the reason that the coucil of god heads don't get invovled in earths problems "or try not to. Skyfather have been show to have huge amounts of power and the line between elder god and skyfathers is not the great for the must part. Anyway Chaos wars is starting to show the range of the power of the skyfathers once again to beyond earth bound levels

Well according to the Handbook it was : personal power, worshipers, and one other thing that I cant' remember probably influence.

But it doesn't matter, writers will do what they feel like.

Originally posted by zopzop
Well according to the Handbook it was : personal power, worshipers, and one other thing that I cant' remember probably influence.

But it doesn't matter, writers will do what they feel like.
Why do you treat Handbooks as superior to on-panel evidence? They're supplementary fluff.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Why do you treat Handbooks as superior to on-panel evidence? They're supplementary fluff.

This. Odin can't possibly have more than a literal handful of serious worshippers in present day marvel, if that. more obscure dieties (cytorrak) are in even worse shape. considering the monstrous amount of power they have, number of worshippers clearly has nothing to do with power level.

Ironically, 2099 marvel found the norse gods with LOADS of worshippers as well as an organized church, but they had all died out and were nowhere to be found.

Originally posted by Space M ummy
This. Odin can't possibly have more than a literal handful of serious worshippers in present day marvel, if that. more obscure dieties (cytorrak) are in even worse shape. considering the monstrous amount of power they have, number of worshippers clearly has nothing to do with power level.

Uhm you realize that Cytorrak (he's both a demon and a god) is worshiped by various beings in numerous dimensions right?



Shazam! There goes their power base again!

Originally posted by zopzop
Well according to the Handbook it was : personal power, worshipers, and one other thing that I cant' remember probably influence.

But it doesn't matter, writers will do what they feel like. Handbook are by far the worst resource to use for any comics. I swear they make stuff up just to fill pages.

Odin's power is not dependent on his worshipers? Where the f*ck did they get that information from? I cannot remember a single instance where that was stated. If it was, it was probably during the Thomas age where he retconned a large portion of Asgardian history and really limited Odin's power. I cannot say why however. Probably the same Cosmic wanking mentality these idiots seem to have.

Originally posted by Space M ummy
This is a pretty tough call.

the power of a cosmic cube is supposedly infinite (yes, I know there's multiple layers of infinity), and as it evolves into a cube being it places self imposed limits on itself, becoming weaker in the process.

So POTENTIALLY, one cube being could wipe out any number of skyfathers. ten would probably even be lowballing it. We don't have a lot of feats for kubik, but Shaper of worlds devastated a significant chunk of the skrull empire before it decided to limit itself. Even AFTER self limitation it still has reality warping abilities on a planetary scale (Odin definitely does NOT) so I'd probably still comfortably put your average cube being (that is, not at full potential) over a decent amount of skyfathers- ten of Odin's class combined might be pushing it though.

Lulz. You're so confidently claiming that Odin does not have reality warping abilities at planetary level when I'd wager you know shit all about Odin, the Odin Force, and it's limits.

Odin does have reality warping abilities on a planetary level. You know why? Because it's been shown Odin has reality warping abilities on a planetary level. Planetary and beyond. Remnants of an Odin spell packed enough power to create an entire dimension filled with it's own Asgardian duplicates. Some of Odin's power has been used to warp the entire Marvel Earth and so on.

I do not understand why people have such a hard time with Odin being a Cosmic player just because his a deity that was worshiped only by the race he created.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus


I do not understand why people have such a hard time with Odin being a Cosmic player just because his a deity that was worshiped only by the race he created. he struggled to put thanos down with his own power...a true cosmic would not struggle against thanos

Originally posted by Starscream M
he struggled to put thanos down with his own power...a true cosmic would not struggle against thanos Two Thanos haters (or just Brucey if he's not a hater... either way...) about to argue about Thanos' power... this should be good.

Originally posted by Starscream M
he struggled to put thanos down with his own power...a true cosmic would not struggle against thanos

Why do people attempt to define Odin's power level with this one showing? I don't understand this logic.

The Thanos fight is Odin's weakest battle showing I'd wager. The other one being the off panel alien invasion fight.

Odin has multiple feats of power and battles beyond his encounter with Thanos.

This illogical attempt to gauge Odin's level by one showing is illogical. Like all characters he has some poor to not so good showings, but their either equaled or outnumbered by his more powerful feats.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Why do people attempt to define Odin's power level with this one showing? I don't understand this logic.

The Thanos fight is Odin's weakest battle showing I'd wager. The other one being the off panel alien invasion fight.

Odin has plenty of feats and battles far and beyond his battle with Thanos.

This illogical attempt to gauge Odin's level by one showing is illogical. Like all characters he has some poor to not so good showings, but their either equaled or outnumbered by his more powerful feats. we could take odin's showing against thor, when he had destroyer armor, it wasn't that impressive either

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
The Thanos fight is Odin's weakest battle showing I'd wager. lol

people say loki is not a reality warper, if thats true than odin isnt too
although i disagree with that because magic and reality warping goes hand to hand

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
people say loki is not a reality warper, if thats true than odin isnt too
although i disagree with that because magic and reality warping goes hand to hand Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
lol

explain

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
explain Odin's powers aren't the same as Loki's.

Originally posted by Starscream M
he struggled to put thanos down with his own power...a true cosmic would not struggle against thanos Galactus had a hard time breakin thanos sheild and got tossed around the moon I guess galactus is only a high meta

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Odin's powers aren't the same as Loki's.


Yep, Loki is his superior.

I'd define the Odin Force as basically a Cosmic Cube lite. Depending on the writer it ranges from a planetary warping force to a Universal level force.

Originally posted by Starscream M
we could take odin's showing against thor, when he had destroyer armor, it wasn't that impressive either

What about his showings against Thor?

The Celestial battle? It was during a period when Thomas had retconned the Gods, and powered Odin down. During that same period, the Celestials were high up the food chain. A step above the previous top dogs like the Watcher, Odin, and yes, even Galactus.

the celestials are above galactus

when the dreaming celestial awoke it was felt across the universe and galactus for the fist time felt what fear was.

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/6334/eternals006021022pz7.jpg

I don't know if this has been posted already, but it's over 9000.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
the celestials are above galactus

when the dreaming celestial awoke it was felt across the universe and galactus for the fist time felt what fear was.
The dreaming Celestial was the strongest of all Celestials, by far. it doesn't mean any old Celestial is above Galactus.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Or rather let me ask the question like this: how many Odins would it take to equal the power of Kubik? 12,861.


sneer

Originally posted by Galan007
12,861.


sneer See? It's over 9000

Originally posted by King Kandy
The dreaming Celestial was the strongest of all Celestials, by far. it doesn't mean any old Celestial is above Galactus.
Except the super celestials from the end of time aka scathan

Exitar also

Does Exitar have any actual feats to suggest he's > or even = to Galactus?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Does Exitar have any actual feats to suggest he's > or even = to Galactus? no, but they outright stated his power dwarfs the entire celestial host save timaut

And then we back at the statements contra feats.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
no, but they outright stated his power dwarfs the entire celestial host save timaut Surely Galactus can duplicate Invisible Woman's feat.

amiright? ermmhappy

^if you want to lowball we can go there

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
^if you want to lowball we can go there
It's not really lowballing if that's his only showing.

Lowballing is when you discard high end showings and concentrate on those that paint the character in a negative/weak light.

Originally posted by Q99
One wonders just what all these Celestial and Abstract beings do.

I mean, Eternity, Galactus, Death, Order the actual concepts, you know what they're up to. They're existing in balance with each other and counteracting their opposite, yadda yadda.

But Celestials? What do they do all day with all that power? There's dozens to hundreds of above-cube level beings who just stand around and look Kirby-esque!

Their purpose is to wank Marvel and make it several times more powerful than most if not all fictions out there.

What is important and people don't realize is that the celestials look cool.

Their role in the cosmos, as per x-men forever, is that of gardeners that cultivate the next generation of abstratcs to replace the current ones in the next incarnation of the cosmos. Humans, through mutantkind, and the other species they've manipulated are candidates for this. Did the Skrull mutants ever show up again?

Hm, so mostly their role is to help out the next universe? That makes a kind of sense.


Originally posted by Cubey
Their purpose is to wank Marvel and make it several times more powerful than most if not all fictions out there.

Eh, even with Celestials there's stuff a lot bigger out there.

Depending on the sky-fathers it will take between three or four. If it's Odin, Zeus and Vishnu I'll take the Sky-Fathers since these are top of the food chain of Sky-fathers.


Galactus is more powerful than majority of the Celestials, if it's one on one I'll take Galactus, if it's a group the Celestials will win but with some serious causalities.

Galactus>Celestials

Now back on topic...

Galactus was shocked when omnipotent beyonder destroyed a celestial
celestials>>>>Galactus

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
Galactus was shocked when omnipotent beyonder destroyed a celestial
celestials>>>>Galactus
I don't see how that proves that.

If someone were to shoot Captain America in the head in front of Thor, Thor would be shocked as ****, doesn't mean that Captain America is > Thor. It just means that Thor thinks highly enough of Cap that he'd be shocked to see someone smoke him.

Originally posted by brownqk
Galactus>Celestials

Now back on topic...

Galactus trembled in fear, on panel, when Tiamut rose up from his imprisonment. It was all the more impressive because Galactus was light years away from where it happened and still soiled his pants.

I don't know why people claim Galactus is above Celestials.

Celestials were considered to be above all the previous Universal powers when they were introduced. I'm not claiming that their that high up the food chain anymore, but what evidence exists to suggest Galactus is above Celestials? Everything I've seen points to the contrary.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I don't know why people claim Galactus is above Celestials.

Celestials were considered to be above all the previous Universal powers when they were introduced. I'm not claiming that their that high up the food chain anymore, but what evidence exists to suggest Galactus is above Celestials? Everything I've seen points to the contrary.
I see where you're going with this.

Celestials >>>> Odin on panel, so if you make it as if the Celestials are >> Galactus you have an argument that Odin is comparable.

You sly fox.

Wait no...what's the opposite of sly?

Oh yeah. Transparent.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I see where you're going with this.

Celestials >>>> Odin on panel, so if you make it as if the Celestials are >> Galactus you have an argument that Odin is comparable.

You sly fox.

Wait no...what's the opposite of sly?

Oh yeah. Transparent.



I don't need to use ABC logic based on the placement of Celestial on the food chain to argue that Odin is comparable to Galactus.

P.S. When the Celestials defeated Odin, they were > Galactus.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus


I don't need to use ABC logic based on the placement of Celestial on the food chain to argue that Odin is comparable to Galactus.

P.S. When the Celestials defeated Odin, they were > Galactus.
Sure you don't.

I'm pretty sure Galactus has had a little (read: a sizable) upgrade since then.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Sure you don't.

I'm pretty sure Galactus has had a little (read: a sizable) upgrade since then. HE has but Zeus rocked him pretty good then again Galactus is running on fumes since he was captured

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Sure you don't.

I'm pretty sure Galactus has had a little (read: a sizable) upgrade since then.

Of course I don't.

Oh yea, when?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Of course I don't.

Oh yea, when?
I'm pretty sure his status as a Universal Abstract was established after that, as was his being equated to Death and Eternity.

Also as per Thanos Imperative Galactus can pull Odin's best feat (wiping a Galaxy, apparently that's what he did in Annihilation) when he's on his last legs and nearly powerless.

So how they can be called peers without appealing to some kind of cracktastic ABC logic is beyond me.

.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
. Just pointing out the fact that Galactus is supposed to be higher up on the food change then the Celestrials

Originally posted by DarkOdin
HE has but Zeus rocked him pretty good then again Galactus is running on fumes since he was captured You must have gotten the early issue since that hasn't happened yet for the rest of us.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
You must have gotten the early issue since that hasn't happened yet for the rest of us. Or you could try the chaos war thread It was in the previews anyway plus other events of that issue have been discussed

Originally posted by DarkOdin
Or you could try the chaos war thread It was in the previews anyway plus other events of that issue have been discussed The preview cuts off at Zeus breaking out of the chains.

Scan your early copy.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I'm pretty sure his status as a Universal Abstract was established after that, as was his being equated to Death and Eternity.

His origins and position in the Universe were altered in either the late 70's or the early 80's, I believe, which is coincidentally around the same time the Celestials were introduced (1980) to the mainstream Marvel Universe.

And I wouldn't call that a power up. I didn't notice any actual change in how his power or status in the food chain is portrayed.

Galactus was a Galactic level threat who consumed planets in the 1960's. Galactus is still a Galactic level threat who consumes planets in 2011. Galactus status has been pretty steady as far as I can tell. It's his "peers" who have risen and fallen around him.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Also as per Thanos Imperative Galactus can pull Odin's best feat (wiping a Galaxy, apparently that's what he did in Annihilation) when he's on his last legs and nearly powerless.

1) Pretty sure he didn't wipe out a Galaxy. I believe he wiped out Annihilus' fleet which was Galaxy wide.
2) Wiping out a Galaxy isn't Odin's best feat.
3) I'm pretty sure that Galactus' power was rejuvenated up to a point when he did that. At least temporarily. IRCC, all those canisters floating around -and maybe into him- were filled with stored Power Cosmic from the planets the Galactus Gun consumed.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
So how they can be called peers without appealing to some kind of cracktastic ABC logic is beyond me.

A lot of things seem to be beyond you. That doesn't mean a basis for them doesn't exist.

either way galactus thought he should be able to one shot skyfathers

Well he thought wrong.

Why should he? His average hardly supports that possibility.

Edit: Course Zeus doesn't exactly have a lot of good showings of his own.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

1) Pretty sure he didn't wipe out a Galaxy. I believe he wiped out Annihilus' fleet which was Galaxy wide.
2) Wiping out a Galaxy isn't Odin's best feat.
3) I'm pretty sure that Galactus' power was rejuvenated up to a point when he did that. At least temporarily. IRCC, all those canisters floating around -and maybe into him- were filled with stored Power Cosmic from the planets the Galactus Gun consumed.



1) He wiped out the majority of Annihilus' fleet and took out three star systems. I can provide the scans if you deem it necessary.

2) Not really familiar with Odins history, what are his best feats?

3) Speculation. Unless the comic stated that Galactus was rejuvenated or that he somehow got the power back that had been drained from him then you cant assume it definitely happened and counter a point with said assumption. Galactus as Omega Vision said was drained and certainly not at anywhere near full power. He had expended energies in a fight with Tenebrous and Aegis and got pummeled and then he got strapped to an energy draining device and turned into a weapon. Where was he fed to regain his reserves amongst all of that? So to be able to destroy 3 galaxies in an outburst that was still expanding at the time of the report is a great feat for a severely weakened Galactus.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
1) He wiped out the majority of Annihilus' fleet and took out three star systems. I can provide the scans if you deem it necessary.

2) Not really familiar with Odins history, what are his best feats?

3) Speculation. Unless the comic stated that Galactus was rejuvenated or that he somehow got the power back that had been drained from him then you cant assume it definitely happened and counter a point with said assumption. Galactus as Omega Vision said was drained and certainly not at anywhere near full power. He had expended energies in a fight with Tenebrous and Aegis and got pummeled and then he got strapped to an energy draining device and turned into a weapon. Where was he fed to regain his reserves amongst all of that? So to be able to destroy 3 galaxies in an outburst that was still expanding at the time of the report is a great feat for a severely weakened Galactus.

1) I deem it necessary. I don't recall the wiping out of Star Systems just the wiping out of a fleet that spanned Star Systems. This isn't worth logging into my main PC for.

2) Destroying multiple Galaxies and threatening the fabric of the Multiverse as an after effect of a battle, the remnant energy of an Odin Spell creating an entire dimension full of it's own Asgardian counterparts, and reversing the damage his evil counterpart Infinity did with a wave of his hand.

3) Were the canisters full of energy? Did we see the canisters floating and glowing around Galactus at the time of the feat? It might be speculation but it sure as hell is less likely that he let all of that energy go to waste instead of restoring his strength to at least some point. 3 Galaxies? You just said 3 Star Systems. There's a big difference between the two.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
1) He wiped out the majority of Annihilus' fleet and took out three star systems. I can provide the scans if you deem it necessary.

Yup, I can confirm this.



Believe it or not, Odin has on panel galaxy busting feats. He also took out Surtur, who busted a galaxy to form his sword. His battle with Seth shook the multiverse and ignited long dead stars. Jean claimed she foresaw the death of all reality.

I personally think it's bullxxxx but that's what was shown on panel.



Star system = galaxy? I took it to mean solar system.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
1) He wiped out the majority of Annihilus' fleet and took out three star systems. I can provide the scans if you deem it necessary.
That was 'at least' as well. Plus he took out a Watcher in that instance.

Here's the scan where it talks about the galaxy:
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Raw%20power/thanos_004.jpg

Here's the actual scene:
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Raw%20power/Annihilation6-005.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Raw%20power/Annihilation6-006-007.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Raw%20power/Annihilation6-008.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Raw%20power/Annihilation6-009.jpg

Can someone post the scan please?

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
That was 'at least' as well. Plus he took out a Watcher in that instance.

Here's the scan where it talks about the galaxy:
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Raw%20power/thanos_004.jpg

All this means is that the fleet was spread out throughout a Galaxy and Galactus wiped them all out. The one in Annihilation was more specific I believe. I'm assuming that scene straight up says Galactus wipes out a Star System.

Okay, I found it. Gimme a second to upload them.

http://img97.imageshack.us/i/0262destroystheannihila.jpg/
http://img543.imageshack.us/i/0263destroystheannihila.jpg/
http://img42.imageshack.us/i/0264destroystheannihila.jpg/
http://img177.imageshack.us/i/0265destroystheannihila.jpg/
http://img706.imageshack.us/i/0266destroystheannihila.jpg/
http://img256.imageshack.us/i/0267destroystheannihila.jpg/
http://img641.imageshack.us/i/026destroystheannihilat.jpg/

1. The position and movement of the canisters plus Annihilus' reaction about the Power Cosmic being his strongly suggests -which logic also supports- that those canisters' energy were used.

2. I'm on the fence about whether the Star Systems were obliterated completely or if it was limited mostly to Annihilus' fleets. Any further evidence about this would sway my opinion to one side or the other most likely.

I'd assume some planets that had only Annihilus' troops as their occupants were destroyed. Maybe even an entire System or two, but I believe the wave was mostly a cleansing of the Annihilation wave instead of an actual destruction of a Galaxy.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
1) I deem it necessary. I don't recall the wiping out of Star Systems just the wiping out of a fleet that spanned Star Systems. This isn't worth logging into my main PC for.

2) Destroying multiple Galaxies and threatening the fabric of the Multiverse as an after effect of a battle, the remnant energy of an Odin Spell creating an entire dimension full of it's own Asgardian counterparts, and reversing the damage his evil counterpart Infinity did with a wave of his hand.

3) Were the canisters full of energy? Did we see the canisters floating and glowing around Galactus at the time of the feat? It might be speculation but it sure as hell is less likely that he let all of that energy go to waste instead of restoring his strength to at least some point. 3 Galaxies? You just said 3 Star Systems. There's a big difference between the two.

1) My pleasure:

http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/6025/annihilation6009.th.jpg

It encompassed three star systems and at the time of the report it was still expanding"it does not slow"

2) So it wasnt a feat he achieved alone it was in a prolonged battle with a similarly powered opponent? A severely weakened Galactus after facing down two equally powered cosmics and getting beaten and then being drained of his reserves took out three star systems in an outburst of power that at the time of reporting was still expanding.

3) Apologies, sleep deprivation. It was 3 star systems. However it was him alone, in a very weakened state and in a single outburst of power as opposed to two opponents in a prolonged battle over an undisclosed(whether by you or by the comic i dont know) period of time. Furthermore who is to say who was responsible for the lionshare of the environmental damage when theres two opponents? Going back to the rejuvenation point thats supposition. Find an on panel statement verifying your interpretation or we'll leave it at that.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus


2. I'm on the fence about whether the Star Systems were obliterated completely or if it was limited mostly to Annihilus' fleets. Any further evidence about this would sway my opinion to one side or the other most likely.


Swaying your opinion in light of what is clearly stated on panel isnt necessary.

The blast encompassed three star systems. Its as simple as that.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
2. I'm on the fence about whether the Star Systems were obliterated completely or if it was limited mostly to Annihilus' fleets. Any further evidence about this would sway my opinion to one side or the other most likely.

I'd assume some planets that had only Annihilus' troops as their occupants were destroyed. Maybe even an entire System or two, but I believe the wave was mostly a cleansing of the Annihilation wave instead of an actual destruction of a Galaxy. Wouldn't this be a better feat as it's a focused wave of destruction?

Also, it showed him wiping out a Watcher/planet... so, it wasn't limited to just Annihilation Wave.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
1) My pleasure:

http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/6025/annihilation6009.th.jpg

It encompassed three star systems and at the time of the report it was still expanding"it does not slow"

I'm assuming the blast encompassed the entire Galaxy as stated by Thanos.

I however am not sure if it actually destroyed 3 Star Systems. Not that it would matter much.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
2) So it wasnt a feat he achieved alone it was in a prolonged battle with a similarly powered opponent? A severely weakened Galactus after facing down two equally powered cosmics and getting beaten and then being drained of his reserves took out three star systems in an outburst of power that at the time of reporting was still expanding.

The very first blast they traded caused shockwaves that rippled throughout the planes of reality.

http://img50.imageshack.us/i/sethvsweakenedodin19ht.jpg/
http://img50.imageshack.us/f/sethvsweakenedodin26rj.jpg/
Thanks to Evolve.

Here's a link to the entire fight:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t443095.html

They were operating on that scale from the get go. Don't use that bullshit ZopZop tried.

It being a battle between peers detracts from it but Odin should have provided about half the power for those feats and multiple Galaxies were destroyed.

Galactus being severely drained and weakened is in doubt.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
3) Apologies, sleep deprivation. It was 3 star systems. However it was him alone, in a very weakened state and in a single outburst of power as opposed to two opponents in a prolonged battle over an undisclosed(whether by you or by the comic i dont know) period of time. Furthermore who is to say who was responsible for the lionshare of the environmental damage when theres two opponents? Going back to the rejuvenation point thats supposition. Find an on panel statement verifying your interpretation or we'll leave it at that.

Once again, Galactus being severely drained and weakened is in doubt as it's possible -likely actually- that he absorbed the energy in those canisters or at least used them to rejuvenate himself at least up to a point.

Lulz. Odin was at least Seth's peer. I'd say the destruction caused was 50/50.

The battle couldn't have lasted more than a handful of hours and that's me overdoing it quite heavily in my opinion. It lasted like 11 pages maybe and nothing would indicate a long period of time passed throughout the panels. It seemed to be a steady and linear passing of time.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Wouldn't this be a better feat as it's a focused wave of destruction?

Also, it showed him wiping out a Watcher/planet... so, it wasn't limited to just Annihilation Wave.

What?

I see what you're referring to. I thought the panel after the wise men were Annihilation troops as most of the innocents and good guys seemed to have survived. I guess some innocents were destroyed but I'd still argue it was focused mostly on the Annihilation Wave.

I think SR J-bieb is pointing out that arguably Galactus feat is better because it's a feat accomplished by him alone without assistance from a outside source, in a weakened stat.

and ofcause you can argue for it being focused on the Annihilation Wave, since they was the ones that had, in Galactus optics, violated him, however the blast unleashed by Galactus also toke out pretty much everything else in his desire to destroy the annihilation wave.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
The preview cuts off at Zeus breaking out of the chains.

Scan your early copy. Not a early copy it was a preveiw not the preveiw at the end of the comic.

We see Zeus rock Galactus with a blast then Galactus blast Zeus and Zeus gets right back up Then B ig G says no skyfather could take that kind of blast however but that is were we are left until that next issue it should be a good one

it doesnt come out untill next month though

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
They were operating on that scale from the get go. Don't use that bullshit ZopZop tried.

What bullxxxx? The fact that nothing was shown on panel being destroyed or rocked? The fact that the only beings even aware of the fight were on Earth or in it's immediate vicinity (Strange, Jean Grey, Surfer). The fact that not one cosmic entity acknowledged or commented on the throw down?

Which of the above is bullxxxx?

Originally posted by zopzop
What bullxxxx? The fact that nothing was shown on panel being destroyed or rocked? The fact that the only beings even aware of the fight were on Earth or in it's immediate vicinity (Strange, Jean Grey, Surfer). The fact that not one cosmic entity acknowledged or commented on the throw down?

Which of the above is bullxxxx?

The fact that the narration stated it is all that is needed when the narration states what happens it is taken as a FACT not hyperbole. This is how the forum works and is cannon. If you don't like it is just tough. Bring a MOD in and he will explain the Rules. If you don't wnat to go be a cannon source and dismiss a feat it is in fact a big flaming pile of shit

Originally posted by DarkOdin
The fact that the narration stated it is all that is needed when the narration states what happens it is taken as a FACT not hyperbole. This is how the forum works and is cannon. If you don't like it is just tough. Bring a MOD in and he will explain the Rules. If you don't wnat to go be a cannon source and dismiss a feat it is in fact a big flaming pile of shit

No it's not a steaming pile of xxxx, that's what you are peddling.

If it really was mutliverse shaking and threatened all of reality (like Jean said) where was the Tribunal? Isn't it his job to monitor threats to the greater multiverse?

Where was the Watcher? If the IG affair warranted his notice and it only affected a single universe, where was he for this multiverse shaking event?

Why were the only beings that mention it : Jean Grey, Dr. Strange and the Surfer all earth bound and all herald level and lower?

Where was the on panel evidence of the destruction being wrought?

Is there really "no power in the universe" that's a match for Seth, except for Odin?

galactus was said to have enough power to destroy the universe 10 times over by a writer once

do you consider these guys cube being level

umar, aegis, post beyonder and molecule man , franklin richards

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
do you consider these guys cube being level

umar, aegis, post beyonder and molecule man , franklin richards

IMHO :

Umar - No

Post Beyonder and Molecule Man - Way too confusing to call, they have been retconned so many times it's ridiculous

Aegis - Yes (I consider her and Teneberous equal to Galactus and I consider Galactus > Cube Being), she's even beyond a Cube Being.

Franklin Richards - Full potential? Yes, he's probably Celestial level and hence he's beyond a Cube Being.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus


Galactus being severely drained and weakened is in doubt.



Once again, Galactus being severely drained and weakened is in doubt as it's possible -likely actually- that he absorbed the energy in those canisters or at least used them to rejuvenate himself at least up to a point.

Even if Galactus had reabsorbed his energy which had been drained by the device, Galactus still wouldnt have been anywhere near full power. He had just had a fight with two cosmics whowere on par with him and he got beaten down which facilitated his capture and forced participation with Annihilus' plan.

Again i ask you, where did he consume a planet amongst any of that?

So if he did absorb back the drained energy as per your interpretation he was still far from full power.

If he didnt then he was reserves were severely depleted.

In either circumstance it was an impressive feat and Galactus was most definitely low on reserves either way.


Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
The battle couldn't have lasted more than a handful of hours and that's me overdoing it quite heavily in my opinion. It lasted like 11 pages maybe and nothing would indicate a long period of time passed throughout the panels. It seemed to be a steady and linear passing of time.

Galactus let out a single multi-directional outburst of energy which consumed 3 star systems and was still expanding at a consistent rate.

Odin alongside Seth during a prolonged battle emitting wave after wave of energy caused the damage they caused. Thats completely different.

If a weakened and beaten down Galactus in a single burst can wipe out three star systems, eventually according to Thanos cleaning out a Galaxy, then its completely feasible that alone at full power with a prolonged outpouring of his energies he could far exceed the damage Odin or Seth could do alone and perhaps at least match what damage they did in the scans you present.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Odin alongside Seth during a prolonged battle emitting wave after wave of energy caused the damage they caused. Thats completely different.

I just find this impossible especially when nothing was shown on panel and all we have is the narrator.

How could Odin/Seth output enough energy to destroy galaxies and ignite stars and shake the multiverse, when during the Infinity Gauntlet story arc, Galactus/Eon/Stranger/Love/Hate/Order/Chaos/Chronos/Ziran/TOAA blasted Thanos with the IG simultaneously and only managed to destroy solar systems in their immediate vicinity?

A galaxy contains tens of thousands of solar systems (at least).

So the writer of that Journey into Mystery would have us believe that all the Marvel Cosmic Hierarchy can't produce the power output of Odin and Seth?

BS. Serious BS.

Originally posted by zopzop
I just find this impossible especially when nothing was shown on panel and all we have is the narrator.

How could Odin/Seth output enough energy to destroy galaxies and ignite stars and shake the multiverse, when during the Infinity Gauntlet story arc, Galactus/Eon/Stranger/Love/Hate/Order/Chaos/Chronos/Ziran/TOAA blasted Thanos with the IG simultaneously and only managed to destroy solar systems in their immediate vicinity?

A galaxy contains tens of thousands of solar systems (at least).

So the writer of that Journey into Mystery would have us believe that all the Marvel Cosmic Hierarchy can't produce the power output of Odin and Seth?

BS. Serious BS.

Agreed.

It does read as hyperbole. Odins never been consistently shown at such a level, no skyfather has. Current continuity in the past decade or two has him consistently portrayed as a global scale power, able to reshape and affect matter on a planetary scale. Thats how Skyfathers should be.

I don't see the point in calling it hyperbole. Shaking the Multiverse is to Skyfathers what standing in the core of the sun is to Heralds.

A wtf feat that's become trite.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Agreed.

It does read as hyperbole. Odins never been consistently shown at such a level, no skyfather has. Current continuity in the past decade or two has him consistently portrayed as a global scale power, able to reshape and affect matter on a planetary scale. Thats how Skyfathers should be. that would make skyfathers only as powerful as silver surfer.
actually even surfer has bigger feats than that

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I don't see the point in calling it hyperbole. Shaking the Multiverse is to Skyfathers what standing in the core of the sun is to Heralds.

A wtf feat that's become trite.

Then you're left to explain how the combined might of : Galactus, Eon, Stranger, two Celestials, Love, Hate, Order, Chaos and Chronos unleashed simultaneously failed to a) shake the multiverse and b) destroy a galaxy.

Unless you mean to tell me Odin and Seth are beyond the above beings in power output.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I don't see the point in calling it hyperbole. Shaking the Multiverse is to Skyfathers what standing in the core of the sun is to Heralds.

A wtf feat that's become trite.

Its not really having a ripple effect through the multiverse that i have my doubts about, its more the destruction of galaxies and igniting of suns. Just saying it reads like hyperbole cos such power levels are beyond how skyfathers have been consistently portrayed in the past 20 twenty years.

Just saying......

Originally posted by zopzop
Then you're left to explain how the combined might of : Galactus, Eon, Stranger, two Celestials, Love, Hate, Order, Chaos and Chronos unleashed simultaneously failed to a) shake the multiverse and b) destroy a galaxy.

Unless you mean to tell me Odin and Seth are beyond the above beings in power output.
Comics are always inconsistent with their collateral damage. For a reference point look at how the three Skyfathers who confronted the Celestial only shook the world with their attack even though they were going all out and capable of much greater.

I think this "X didn't even destroy Y in this instance, ergo the instance where X destroyed Z is PIS" is one of the weakest arguments on the forum.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Its not really having a ripple effect through the multiverse that i have my doubts about, its more the destruction of galaxies and igniting of suns. Just saying it reads like hyperbole cos such power levels are beyond how skyfathers have been consistently portrayed in the past 20 twenty years.

Just saying......
Igniting suns is a pretty base level Skyfather feat actually.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Comics are always inconsistent with their collateral damage. For a reference point look at how the three Skyfathers who confronted the Celestial only shook the world with their attack even though they were going all out and capable of much greater.

I think this "X didn't even destroy Y in this instance, ergo the instance where X destroyed Z is PIS" is one of the weakest arguments on the forum.

There's a huge difference between 3 skyfathers laying into a Celestial and all the Cosmic Hierarchy confronting the most powerful artifact in comics history at the time.

Those 3 skyfathers were no match for Arshiem let alone the 3rd Host. Odin + Destroyer Armor (that was blessed with a fraction of all Earth's skyfathers) + every soul in Asgard (except Thor) was melted into slag before the power of the 4th Host.

Now you mean to tell me 2 skyfather level beings throwing down threatened all creation? I call massive BS.

i dont see why people think skyfathers should be silver surfer level guys

Colossus


IMHO it should go something like this :

Skyfather <= Watcher < Elder God < Cube Being < Celestial < Pseudo Abstraction (Galactus, FP Tyrant, Aegis, Teneberous) < Abstraction/Avatar Forces (The Infinites, Eternity, Death, Oblivion, Entropy, PF, Goblin Force, etc...)

Originally posted by zopzop
There's a huge difference between 3 skyfathers laying into a Celestial and all the Cosmic Hierarchy confronting the most powerful artifact in comics history at the time.

Those 3 skyfathers were no match for Arshiem let alone the 3rd Host. Odin + Destroyer Armor (that was blessed with a fraction of all Earth's skyfathers) + every soul in Asgard (except Thor) was melted into slag before the power of the 4th Host.

Now you mean to tell me 2 skyfather level beings throwing down threatened all creation? I call massive BS.
I don't think they threatened all creation so much as made it rattle. Which has been accomplished by beings lower than Skyfathers (E2 Superman and New Earth Superman's punches reverberated across dimensional boundaries).

Edit: FP Tyrant two tiers above Cube Being?

this is how i see it ,

Heralds- planetary level guys , can destroy planets, moons at there peak

Skyfathers- can create pocket demensions , destroy/affect entire dimensions and galaxys at there peak

elder gods- can create pocket universes,given time can effect a universe(not destroy)

cosmic cube being-can destroy a universe

Abstract- Can affect multiple universes/Multiverse

Originally posted by zopzop
No it's not a steaming pile of xxxx, that's what you are peddling.

If it really was mutliverse shaking and threatened all of reality (like Jean said) where was the Tribunal? Isn't it his job to monitor threats to the greater multiverse?

Where was the Watcher? If the IG affair warranted his notice and it only affected a single universe, where was he for this multiverse shaking event?

Why were the only beings that mention it : Jean Grey, Dr. Strange and the Surfer all earth bound and all herald level and lower?

Where was the on panel evidence of the destruction being wrought?

Is there really "no power in the universe" that's a match for Seth, except for Odin?

IG was destroying the universe THe battle was just shaking it and no long term damage was doen they don't need to get into. Hell Odin death was noted by the LT that is a huge feat in itself plus Odin effectiv the universe yet again. You can troll all you want but you got nothing

Originally posted by Omega Vision I don't think they threatened all creation so much as made it rattle. Which has been accomplished by beings lower than Skyfathers (E2 Superman and New Earth Superman's punches reverberated across dimensional boundaries).

We're talking Marvel here



DP Tyrant was about to decapitate Galactus till Morg showed up with the UN. So yeah

Originally posted by DarkOdin
IG was destroying the universe THe battle was just shaking it and no long term damage was doen they don't need to get into.

No the battle was not "destroying the universe" go look it up for yourself. The initial assault of all the cosmic powers "only" destroyed the solar system the battle took place in and some solar systems in the immediate vicinity.

A galaxy contains tens of thousands of solar systems so the combined might of all the Cosmics present couldn't even destroy a galaxy. But we're supposed to believe Surtur, Odin, and Seth can causally bust galaxies and shake the multiverse.



Again no, he "barely" acknowledged his passing. Seeing as how the LT is supposed to be omniscient he'd take note of all that goes on in the multiverse.

Originally posted by zopzop
We're talking Marvel here

Which makes no difference. The point is that you don't even need to be a skyfather to cause ripples through the Multiverse.


I personally wouldn't put regular Galactus that far above Cube Being either, if at all.