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Who wins ?

Graviton or Magneto

and who would have more control over the other during the fight ?

Animated Gr from the Avengers toon would beat any of the animated Mags.

Is the new Avengers cartoon the inspiration for this thread?

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Is the new Avengers cartoon the inspiration for this thread? thats what gave me the idea. but in the comics graviton as given the avengers trouble before as well. I just forgot all about him till i saw the episode last night.

and the fight is between the 2 comic characters not animated

Originally posted by chomperx9
Who wins ?

Graviton or Magneto

and who would have more control over the other during the fight ?

graviton by a mile.

Magneto's best chance to affect graviton is by slowing, stopping, or reversing his blood flow via the iron in it. Assuming gravity doesn't affect magnetic force outright (and my science is rusty, so I'm not sure how much of an effect he could have) graviton can increase his body's density enough to simply make his blood too heavy for magneto to move. And yeah, he's made his body dense enough so the human torch couldn't burn him even at nova level- which is pretty damn heavy.

Graviton on the other hand can will magneto's costume to suddenly weigh fifty thousand tons and crush him to death immediately. Magneto doesn't really have a good defense against this.

not to mention graviton's range is good enough to hit magneto from anywhere on the planet. magneto's range isn't anywhere near this good.

graviton 10/10.

Originally posted by Space M ummy
graviton by a mile.

Magneto's best chance to affect graviton is by slowing, stopping, or reversing his blood flow via the iron in it. Assuming gravity doesn't affect magnetic force outright (and my science is rusty, so I'm not sure how much of an effect he could have) graviton can increase his body's density enough to simply make his blood too heavy for magneto to move. And yeah, he's made his body dense enough so the human torch couldn't burn him even at nova level- which is pretty damn heavy.

Graviton on the other hand can will magneto's costume to suddenly weigh fifty thousand tons and crush him to death immediately. Magneto doesn't really have a good defense against this.

not to mention graviton's range can hit magneto anywhere on the planet. magneto's range isn't anywhere near this good.

graviton 10/10. Magneto has control over the earths magnetic field. He can give Graviton a taste of his own medicine. and if magneto is in his magnetic forcefield i dont think graviton can do anything there cause in his forcefield he controls 100% where he goes.

Originally posted by chomperx9
Magneto has control over the earths magnetic field. He can give Graviton a taste of his own medicine. and if magneto is in his magnetic forcefield i dont think graviton can do anything there cause in his forcefield he controls 100% where he goes.

Magneto can manipulate the earth's magnetic field, but only in his immediate vicinity. Magneto's best feat (that I'm aware of) is levitating asteroid the size of manhattan (asteroid M) while freezing three Xmen teams via the blood flow trick. This is apparently his limit since trying to fight them at the same time caused him to start losing control over the asteroid, and it started coming apart.

In contrast, graviton has hit someone on the opposite side of the planet with accuracy, moved the continents themselves around, immobilized every hero on earth AND and stolen the atmospheres of entire planets. they're in two different leagues here.

I don't see magneto's magnetic field stopping graviton's powers since gravity (and density) still have an effect within it. it's not a "blast" you can block, it's simply increasing the effect of a force that's already present. Graviton ALSO has shields, but magneto's manipulation of the iron in his blood would likely bypass it.

My argument comes down to the fact that (shields aside) graviton's defenses are better. Magneto flat out CAN'T KO him through brute force, and the density manipulation abilities mean that grav can make himself simply too heavy to use the blood flow trick on. Magneto's defenses sans shields are nonexistant.

Yeah....Graviton if written correctly(And brought back into current syndication) could be a major threat to just about anybody.

Originally posted by Space M ummy
graviton by a mile.

Magneto's best chance to affect graviton is by slowing, stopping, or reversing his blood flow via the iron in it. Assuming gravity doesn't affect magnetic force outright (and my science is rusty, so I'm not sure how much of an effect he could have) graviton can increase his body's density enough to simply make his blood too heavy for magneto to move. And yeah, he's made his body dense enough so the human torch couldn't burn him even at nova level- which is pretty damn heavy.

Graviton on the other hand can will magneto's costume to suddenly weigh fifty thousand tons and crush him to death immediately. Magneto doesn't really have a good defense against this.

not to mention graviton's range is good enough to hit magneto from anywhere on the planet. magneto's range isn't anywhere near this good.

graviton 10/10. His armor is made of metal bonded on a molecular level and its flexibilty is a result of his power's constant effect on it. 50.000 tons of weight wouldn't really faze him either

How heavy G's blood becomes is irrelevant, because magneto only manipulates the iron in it and as dense as gravtion makes himself he can probably still rip it from him or just stop it in his arteries letting the thick fluid move arround it.

Magneto also has superhuman reactions and should be able to cripple graviton before he does his thing, although with CIS this may vary. Mags has reversed gravity arround himself as well and his range is quite formidable as his EMPs can reach a planetary scale.

Originally posted by Space M ummy
Magneto can manipulate the earth's magnetic field, but only in his immediate vicinity. Magneto's best feat (that I'm aware of) is levitating asteroid the size of manhattan (asteroid M) while freezing three Xmen teams via the blood flow trick. This is apparently his limit since trying to fight them at the same time caused him to start losing control over the asteroid, and it started coming apart.

In contrast, graviton has hit someone on the opposite side of the planet with accuracy, moved the continents themselves around, immobilized every hero on earth AND and stolen the atmospheres of entire planets. they're in two different leagues here.

I don't see magneto's magnetic field stopping graviton's powers since gravity (and density) still have an effect within it. it's not a "blast" you can block, it's simply increasing the effect of a force that's already present. Graviton ALSO has shields, but magneto's manipulation of the iron in his blood would likely bypass it.

My argument comes down to the fact that (shields aside) graviton's defenses are better. Magneto flat out CAN'T KO him through brute force, and the density manipulation abilities mean that grav can make himself simply too heavy to use the blood flow trick on. Magneto's defenses sans shields are nonexistant.

Magneto has manipulated larger masses than that. I don't see why the iron in the blood manipulation wouldn't work.

Originally posted by 753
Magneto has manipulated larger masses than that. I don't see why the iron in the blood manipulation wouldn't work.

That's the largest one I'm aware of. And fighting the xmen while doing it caused him to lose control. He wasn't weakened or surprise attacked there either- so no excuses, really.

Not saying he's NEVER done anything bigger, but that's clearly some kind of limit.

My reasoning on the iron in the blood thing is this- it's a fine control of some very small particles within the body. decent amount of concentration and power to make this work.

Graviton has the ability to increase the weight of these particles substantially (meaning, it's going to take more force to move them) as well as increasing the force at which those particles are moving through his body (same as above). So magneto is going to have to use a LOT more power and a lot more concentration to try and make the same trick work here. It's simply not going to be as effective if the iron in graviton's bloodstream is ten thousand times harder to move. (for example...that's nowhere near grav's limit.)

And that's just assuming graviton just stands there. Magneto is also going to have to use his powers to negate graviton's effect on him. if suddenly everything in the vicity becomes hyperdense automatically, magneto is going to have to spend a LOT more power just to do the same things he normally does, nevermind being crushed to death under the weight of his own suit.

This is going to come down to who's better with multitasking large amounts of power, and graviton at his best has immobilized everyone on the planet, while increasing his density, levitating cities, AND pummeling his opponents with megaton blasts- simultaneously. Even sleeping or knocked out, Hall's powers still work, which means that the effort he's expending is a lot less. Magneto's high end simply isn't on the same level.

Granted, hall's achilles heel is that while smart, he's not all that stable- if magneto can frustrate or distract him he might have a shot.

magneto needs no gravity

bump

Graviton easy.

I'll go with Graviton here.

Magneto.

Dosen't Graviton have actual access to a black hole?
Black Hole trumps Earths' G-field.

Magneto.

If it's Graviton anywhere near his most recent showings (reshaping the earth's surface and effortlessly capturing every superhuman on earth, some from thousands of miles away) I'm pretty sure he would win this handily. He was just too powerful and his power could block Magneto's energies from affecting him. Hall's inherent personality instability might be Mag's only chance, otherwise Mags will just be overpowered I think.

Originally posted by basilisk
If it's Graviton anywhere near his most recent showings (reshaping the earth's surface and effortlessly capturing every superhuman on earth, some from thousands of miles away) I'm pretty sure he would win this handily. He was just too powerful and his power could block Magneto's energies from affecting him. Hall's inherent personality instability might be Mag's only chance, otherwise Mags will just be overpowered I think. but magnetism needs no gravity. how would he block magnetos powers ?

Graviton! I <3 this guy.

Anyone remember the Grand Unified Theory super villain team? Graviton (Gravity), ZZaxx (Electro-Magnetism), Quantum (Strong Force), Half-Life (Weak Force). Man they were cool.

Graviton

Originally posted by chomperx9
but magnetism needs no gravity. how would he block magnetos powers ?
Magnetism doesn't need gravity (as far as I know) but gravity does affect and manipulate electromagnetic fields. While on the other hand electromagnetic fields don't have any direct effect on the force of gravity (they can work against gravity in some ways, but that's different - they don't block and can't manipulate gravity).

Graviton has shown immense gravitational effects including blocking laser light and energy, so I think he could bend and block Mag's attacks. While Magneto could take some measures to protect himself, ultimately his magnetism can't directly do anything to gravity and he won't be able to stop everything. I honestly don't think Mags would even survive the straight "increase local gravity by x-million times" or "gravity crush him into a ball" tricks since a magnetic force field doesn't stop gravity and there is only so much he can do to reinforce a human body against the effect before it would kill him.

bump

Originally posted by basilisk
Magnetism doesn't need gravity (as far as I know) but gravity does affect and manipulate electromagnetic fields. While on the other hand electromagnetic fields don't have any direct effect on the force of gravity (they can work against gravity in some ways, but that's different - they don't block and can't manipulate gravity).

Graviton has shown immense gravitational effects including blocking laser light and energy, so I think he could bend and block Mag's attacks. While Magneto could take some measures to protect himself, ultimately his magnetism can't directly do anything to gravity and he won't be able to stop everything. I honestly don't think Mags would even survive the straight "increase local gravity by x-million times" or "gravity crush him into a ball" tricks since a magnetic force field doesn't stop gravity and there is only so much he can do to reinforce a human body against the effect before it would kill him. magneto controls gravity regardless of real world physics and I am yet to see graviton actually manipualte electromagnetism on panel

Originally posted by 753
magneto controls gravity regardless of real world physics and I am yet to see graviton actually manipualte electromagnetism on panel Magneto may have some control over gravity, but whatever it is I don't think anyone would argue that Graviton's control over gravity wasn't many leagues above Magneto's.

As far as manipulating electromagnetism on panel, Graviton has deflected lasers, heat, and electricity with his shields and blocked radio wave transmissions with gravity waves. On panel he has also directly dissipated electromagnetic fields using gravity, stating outright that he can disrupt the cohesion of electromagnetism.

I guess that has some loose basis in physics as he was presumably messing with the photons that transmit the electromagnetic force.

But as you say, regardless of real world physics this is comic book physics (at least I think it is). But he is a comic book physicist so he is the expert.

I really don't know who should win but both have done stuff they shouldn't be doing with their power source.

Magneto.

Originally posted by basilisk
Magneto may have some control over gravity, but whatever it is I don't think anyone would argue that Graviton's control over gravity wasn't many leagues above Magneto's.

As far as manipulating electromagnetism on panel, Graviton has deflected lasers, heat, and electricity with his shields and blocked radio wave transmissions with gravity waves. On panel he has also directly dissipated electromagnetic fields using gravity, stating outright that he can disrupt the cohesion of electromagnetism.

I guess that has some loose basis in physics as he was presumably messing with the photons that transmit the electromagnetic force.

But as you say, regardless of real world physics this is comic book physics (at least I think it is). But he is a comic book physicist so he is the expert. graviton's control over gravity is beyond magneto's, of course.

most of those things you listed are indirect interference with electromagnetic phenomena, not actual control over it, but some sound legit.

still going with magneto

I forgot I created this:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=441119&pagenumber=1

I left out his best feat there the one from the Thunderbolts. Anyway yeah Graviton hasn't exhibited control over the other fundamental forces. He once formed a team of members each able to control a fundamental force.

conceptually, this is an awesome fight

though, I think both characters (I'm less familiar with Graviton) probably suffer from a lack of imagination with their powers... Someone with the control of gravity that Graviton shows should have little trouble with the avengers...

Originally posted by inimalist
conceptually, this is an awesome fight

though, I think both characters (I'm less familiar with Graviton) probably suffer from a lack of imagination with their powers... Someone with the control of gravity that Graviton shows should have little trouble with the avengers... magneto has proven pretty creative with his pwoerset

meh

imho, not for someone who seems to be the embodiment of the entire EM spectrum with some access to other fundamental forces of the universe and low level psi...

that powerset... it makes me huge. Its why mags is such a beast in tourneys

Originally posted by inimalist
conceptually, this is an awesome fight

though, I think both characters (I'm less familiar with Graviton) probably suffer from a lack of imagination with their powers... Someone with the control of gravity that Graviton shows should have little trouble with the avengers... Graviton never did have much trouble with the Avengers, he could just about capture them all with a handwave. But when he was coached to use his imagination and learn finer control of his powers he was pretty much unstoppable. He was able to capture and suspend superhumans from all over the globe at the same time, including guys like Thor, Genis, Hulk, the FF, Iron Man, Jean Grey, Vision etc, while simultaneously levitating every major city on earth, while also beginning to carry out major terraforming operations of the earth's surface - and he did this quite casually and was still carrying out normal conversations. He was able to easily fly to the sun and moon and back. With his knowledge as a comic book physicist he did stuff like the aforementioned instant nullification of electromagnetic fields and blocking radio waves. He could affect and destroy intangible, sonic, and energy beings. He compressed people into tiny balls, tore some apart, and casually threw others into space. He was even able to locate a specific person on the other side of the world and kill them by remote controlling a pebble through their head. It was said that anywhere on earth you ran he could find and kill you. It really was that crazy.

I can fully understand why he has been seemingly depowered by brain damage since then since at that level he was ridiculous and not much use for further stories.

Bump

Theoretically, since Electromagnetism is many orders of magnitude stronger of a force than Gravity (but especially on the molecular scale), Magneto should have an edge. But ultimately it's just a quickdraw - whoever has the faster reflexes should get the win.

Toss up.