Dr Doom and Lex Luthor VS Superman

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OneDumbG0
Hasn't Lex on his own already beat Superman multiple times? I'm not talking about keeping him utterly beaten, I mean physically knocked him out or incapacitated him.

Bentley
No prep? Superman triumphs in the end but team gets a few licks.

OneDumbG0
^ Not really. The greatest expert at Superman's weaknesses and a formidable adept at magic teamed up? Superman ain't no Sentry.

Bentley
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Not really. The greatest expert at Superman's weaknesses and a formidable adept at magic teamed up? Superman ain't no Sentry.


Considering what Sentry did to beat Doom he's much better than Sentry no expression


Luthor has his armor I assume. Superman can only lose this battle with hefty amounts of PIS.


Edit: Or hefty amounts of CIS, I meant to write CIS at the beginning but PIS applies too.

-Pr-
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Hasn't Lex on his own already beat Superman multiple times? I'm not talking about keeping him utterly beaten, I mean physically knocked him out or incapacitated him.

with prep.

chomperx9
why the F would lex need dooms help ?

Lord_Talron
Originally posted by chomperx9
why the F would doom need lex's help ? i agree.

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by -Pr-
with prep. Hasn't Lex fought Superman straight-up with his battle-suit? Originally posted by Bentley
Considering what Sentry did to beat Doom he's much better than SentryThis makes no sense. Superman ain't no Sentry. Also, let me know where in the OP, Doom is fending off Wonderman, Ares, Wasp, Spiderwoman, etc. and is distracted. Because the first time Sentry bumrushed Doom, Doom messed Sentry up with his magic and was asked to relent by Stark. I don't think Superman is going to fare any better with that spell or have Tony Stark around to stop him. Originally posted by -Pr-
Luthor has his armor I assume. Superman can only lose this battle with hefty amounts of PIS.

Edit: Or hefty amounts of CIS, I meant to write CIS at the beginning but PIS applies too. Lex has no chance against Superman in his suit? That sounds dumb.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Bentley
Considering what Sentry did to beat Doom he's much better than Sentry no expression


Luthor has his armor I assume. Superman can only lose this battle with hefty amounts of PIS.


Edit: Or hefty amounts of CIS, I meant to write CIS at the beginning but PIS applies too. Dude, the Sentry is a lot more powerful to the point of in another league.

-Pr-
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Hasn't Lex fought Superman straight-up with his battle-suit? This makes no sense. Superman ain't no Sentry. Also, let me know where in the OP, Doom is fending off Wonderman, Ares, Wasp, Spiderwoman, etc. and is distracted. Because the first time Sentry bumrushed Doom, Doom messed Sentry up with his magic and was asked to relent by Stark. I don't think Superman is going to fare any better with that spell or have Tony Stark around to stop him. Lex has no chance against Superman in his suit? That sounds dumb.

why did you use my name on someone else's post?

the last time that i can recall they went up against each other was at the end of Public Enemies, and Superman won.

OneDumbG0
^ Typo.

Didn't they also fight in the JLA storyline, Unlimited or was it Salvation Run?

-Pr-
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Typo.

Didn't they also fight in the JLA storyline, Unlimited or was it Salvation Run?

They were going to fight during Unlimited until Hal and John showed up and took away Lex's kryptonite gauntlets. Superman stomped him shortly after.

Bentley
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Hasn't Lex fought Superman straight-up with his battle-suit? This makes no sense. Superman ain't no Sentry. Also, let me know where in the OP, Doom is fending off Wonderman, Ares, Wasp, Spiderwoman, etc. and is distracted. Because the first time Sentry bumrushed Doom, Doom messed Sentry up with his magic and was asked to relent by Stark. I don't think Superman is going to fare any better with that spell or have Tony Stark around to stop him. Lex has no chance against Superman in his suit? That sounds dumb.


Doom did bfr-self from the battlefield to summon the Mindless ones and was in his castle surrounded by all his tech, he can't do this in this battle.

Given how fast and hard Doom has been put down by herald level fighters, I don't think Doom's magic will be that much of an advantage compared with Superman's speed and strength. Superman is not weak to magic per se, just not strong against it, so if Namor can break the Crimson Bands of Cyttorrak, Kal certainly will too.

Lex might beat Superman -or be instrumental in his defeat- depending on how CISy the battle is.

Warlord
duo wins unless supes speedblitzes Doom from the get go which is unlikely

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by Bentley
Doom did bfr-self from the battlefield to summon the Mindless ones and was in his castle surrounded by all his tech, he can't do this in this battle.He self-BFR'ed to be tutored by Morgan le Fay to do that. Now he knows how to do it. Why would he BFR himself again to learn it again? Originally posted by Bentley
Given how fast and hard Doom has been put down by herald level fighters, I don't think Doom's magic will be that much of an advantage compared with Superman's speed and strength. Superman is not weak to magic per se, just not strong against it, so if Namor can break the Crimson Bands of Cyttorrak, Kal certainly will too.Given how stalwart his shields and armor has held up against Herald-level characters and beyond, I don't think your conclusion makes much sense. Superman gets waylaid by magic in ways other characters do not. That's a weakness. Let's not pretend otherwise. And there were circumstances behind Namor breaking the Crimson Bands of Cytorrak. Kal ain't breaking them. Originally posted by Bentley
Lex might beat Superman -or be instrumental in his defeat- depending on how CISy the battle is. Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Lex has no chance against Superman in his suit? That sounds dumb.

Bentley
Lex doesn't regularly beats Superman, he regularly hangs with Superman, and it's a heck of a feat.

Superman overcomes magic quite often, do you have any example of Kal being handled by a mid-level magician?

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by Bentley
Lex doesn't regularly beats Superman, he regularly hangs with Superman, and it's a heck of a feat. This is my point. Lex hangs with Superman. And he's got the tools to put him down. Now he has a formidable ally. Originally posted by Bentley
Superman overcomes magic quite often, do you have any example of Kal being handled by a mid-level magician? Deflection. Superman gets waylaid by magic or is hindered by magic far more often than not. Faustus has put him down twice through simple teleportation spells. He's been hypnotized by vampires. There is no established, arbitrary level of magic required to hinder, hurt and overcome Superman. And I'm not going to entertain your attempt to corral this conversation into such a pointless endeavor.

It's a game changer against Superman. And it's in the hands of a duo that makes advantage of three of Superman's weaknesses, red sunlight, (various forms of) kryptonite and magic.

Mindset
Doom is a mid-level magician?

Bentley
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
This is my point. Lex hangs with Superman. And he's got the tools to put him down. Now he has a formidable ally. Deflection. Superman gets waylaid by magic or is hindered by magic far more often than not. Faustus has put him down twice through simple teleportation spells. He's been hypnotized by vampires. There is no established, arbitrary level of magic required to hinder, hurt and overcome Superman. And I'm not going to entertain your attempt to corral this conversation into such a pointless endeavor.

It's a game changer against Superman. And it's in the hands of a duo that makes advantage of three of Superman's weaknesses, red sunlight, (various forms of) kryptonite and magic.

Yeah, "magic doesn't autowin against Supes" is a pointless endevour in this fight ermm

Superman hits harder, flies faster and has enough tools to work around both. Thankfully for team Kal holds back a lot. With enough CIS team gets some hard earned wins.

Nor Lex nor Doom casually work around people on Kal's level.


Originally posted by Mindset
Doom is a mid-level magician?


Well, I'm a generous guy. flirt

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by Bentley
Yeah, "magic doesn't autowin against Supes" is a pointless endevour in this fight "Magic doesn't autowin against Supes" has nothing to do with the attitude that "magic isn't really a factor since he's resisted it in the past." One is right. One is wrong. We both know which one is relevant to this conversation. Originally posted by Bentley
Superman hits harder, flies faster and has enough tools to work around both. Thankfully for team Kal holds back a lot. With enough CIS team gets some hard earned wins.

Nor Lex nor Doom casually work around people on Kal's level. You finally said something of worth: "Superman has enough tools to work around both." He'd have to. Superman doesn't work through magical assaults, kryptonite poisoning or red sun radiation by unleashing his full might. His full might is short-circuited by it. So Superman holding back is a red herring.

Nobody said anything about Lex or Doom fighting casually. Specious comment.

Bentley
Except Supes gets around all those things otherwise he would be long dead erm

I said casually because you -rightly assume?- Doom and Luthor won't be holding back, while Superman will be doing so willingly. We admit this and we happily get back to the CIS scenario I mentioned.

Badabing
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Superman ain't no Sentry. Which is the reason Superman wins this first time, every time.

OneDumbG0
^ Except when he doesn't. Originally posted by Bentley
Except Supes gets around all those things otherwise he would be long dead And sometimes he doesn't and is laid out or saved via circumstance or arbitrary mustache-twirling. And neither Doom nor Lex sport a 'stache. uhuh Originally posted by Bentley
I said casually because you -rightly assume?- Doom and Luthor won't be holding back, while Superman will be doing so willingly. We admit this and we happily get back to the CIS scenario I mentioned. ... that makes no sense.

Badabing
Okay, so we all agree. Supes wins handily and I can close this?

superdur

SamZED
Yeah, but still...
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Superman ain't no Sentry. evil face

Bentley
Lex doesn't pose a serious threat against Superman without hefty amounts of CIS, PIS and prep anyways; and that's still a kryptonian who doesn't use his abilities to their full extent.

Supes is well above Luthor and the whole Doom argument revolves around magic. And it hasn't been more developped than that. Victor may as well try to teleport Kal and bfr; at least that should work for sure.

Mindset
Bently, you don't even read Superman comics, you chump.

Bentley
Originally posted by Mindset
Bently, you don't even read Superman comics, you chump.


I'll let that pass... For now peaches

Omega Vision
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Superman ain't no Sentry.
Which is one of the reasons he's a good character.

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Which is one of the reasons he's a good character. http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/More%20Random/Phail04.jpg Originally posted by Bentley
Lex doesn't pose a serious threat against Superman without hefty amounts of CIS, PIS and prep anyways; and that's still a kryptonian who doesn't use his abilities to their full extent.I would disagree. Lex is far from helpless and ineffective. Originally posted by Bentley
Supes is well above Luthor and the whole Doom argument revolves around magic. And it hasn't been more developped than that. Victor may as well try to teleport Kal and bfr; at least that should work for sure. Doom has other abilities, powers and methods. He is not one-dimensional and he is not a man in a tin suit. But I don't see any reason why he would resort to fisticuffs and blasting, a harder (but not impossible) avenue of engaging Superman when he's got formidable magicks. Particularly when teamed with the knowledgeable Luthor.

Warlord
Originally posted by Bentley

do you have any example of Kal being handled by a mid-level magician?

beating Le Fay and Nightmare gets you to middle level?

huge underestimation

Bentley
Originally posted by Warlord
beating Le Fay and Nightmare gets you to middle level?

huge underestimation

Beh, not straight battles, plot devices all around and here I never claimed Doom isn't amazing with prep, he is. There isn't any prep here though.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/More%20Random/Phail04.jpg I would disagree. Lex is far from helpless and ineffective. Doom has other abilities, powers and methods. He is not one-dimensional and he is not a man in a tin suit. But I don't see any reason why he would resort to fisticuffs and blasting, a harder (but not impossible) avenue of engaging Superman when he's got formidable magicks. Particularly when teamed with the knowledgeable Luthor.

Well, if we differ about how Luthor fares against Superman I think it could be part of our misunderstanding. If I thought there was a serious chance for Luthor to be as harmful to Kal as he tends to be in some comics -prepped, inside a plot and with Kal seldomly using his abilities-, then my opinion would be vastly different. In truth, I don't think even Luthor has enough info to justly estimate Superman's threat level outside the passive use of his abilities. Next to that, he would not be more of a threat than Iron Man in a Hulkbuster armor against the Hulk.

I think Doom's best shot is with magic, I don't believe it's enough to give him the upperhand or whatsoever.

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by Bentley
Well, if we differ about how Luthor fares against Superman I think it could be part of our misunderstanding. If I thought there was a serious chance for Luthor to be as harmful to Kal as he tends to be in some comics -prepped, inside a plot and with Kal seldomly using his abilities-, then my opinion would be vastly different. In truth, I don't think even Luthor has enough info to justly estimate Superman's threat level outside the passive use of his abilities. Next to that, he would not be more of a threat than Iron Man in a Hulkbuster armor against the Hulk.Ironically, Iron Man has beaten Hulk straight up without Hulkbuster armor. And Iron Man's armor wasn't even laced with a number of goodies that heavily poison Hulk or compromise Hulk's powers. Originally posted by Bentley
I think Doom's best shot is with magic, I don't believe it's enough to give him the upperhand or whatsoever. http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Even%20More%20Random/Phail03.jpg

biscuits

Bentley
For one thing I think Luthor would beat Superman more often if he had his own book and was quite popular himself. This not being the case he blows biscuits

I respect Doom's magic, I just respect Superman's fists even more big grin

tkitna
Doom kills Superman and then kills Lex for being a nuisance.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Which is one of the reasons he's a good character. That's besides the point that the Sentry is a lot more powerful and a lot more dangerous than baby blue. Who is a better character is subjective and I side with the Sentry there tenfold.

-Pr-
Lex can only really beat Superman when he prepares for it. He's a genius, sure, but he's still human. Most of their biggest showdowns have been when he's had prep. In a fight he's a danger to Superman, sure, but even a Superman with CIS on knows not to play nice against a battlesuit wearing Lex.

With Doom there they can win (and will most definitely take some if not the majority), but it's not going to be 10/10. Not nearly.

I don't see Doom being unbeatable for Superman either.

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by -Pr-
Lex can only really beat Superman when he prepares for it. He's a genius, sure, but he's still human. Most of their biggest showdowns have been when he's had prep. In a fight he's a danger to Superman, sure, but even a Superman with CIS on knows not to play nice against a battlesuit wearing Lex.So how much danger does Lex in his battlesuit pose to Superman in a straight fight? Originally posted by -Pr-
With Doom there they can win (and will most definitely take some if not the majority), but it's not going to be 10/10. Not nearly.

I don't see Doom being unbeatable for Superman either. I have little issue with that statement. thumb up

I have even less issue with this statement. thumb up

-Pr-
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
So how much danger does Lex in his battlesuit pose to Superman in a straight fight? I have little issue with that statement. thumb up

I have even less issue with this statement. thumb up

if they had never met before, i would say considerable. the problem is familiarity. superman has fought lex enough times to know what the suit is capable of, and while lex might score a hit or two, superman is not going to willingly take hits from kryptonite energy blasts like he would a punch from grundy.

besides, i always considered lex better when he wasn't using the suit. he's more of a threat imo.

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by -Pr-
if they had never met before, i would say considerable. the problem is familiarity. superman has fought lex enough times to know what the suit is capable of, and while lex might score a hit or two, superman is not going to willingly take hits from kryptonite energy blasts like he would a punch from grundy.

besides, i always considered lex better when he wasn't using the suit. he's more of a threat imo. Something tells me the familiarity problem swings both ways. But I can't recall offhand the details of each fight battlesuit Lex has had with Superman to impress the idea further.

makenzye
If it's Doom/Luthor v. Superman, it'll go like this:

Doom and Lex will work together in some crazed fashion against Superman that totally seems like a "Two Kings Ruling the World" sort of scenario, laying the dual tech of the good genius', plus the large destructive magic power of Doom sort of beatdown on a Superman who really didn't see it coming from that side. (I'm pretty sure most people who see a man in a technology derived suit do not expect near Sorcerer Supreme magic), and just as Luthor is about to give the killing blow, Doom shoves his hand through Lex's chest, tosses him aside, and tells Superman,

"Know this, last son of Krypton, it is Doom who gives you your life in continuance today, not fate, not strength, and not you. Remember this, and know next time when Doom wants you dead, he'll know exactly how, and your pain will be immeasurable." Then he'll fly off to make an extremely overdone complicated plan which can all be totally derailed by people just standing in the wrong place to show his vast superiority and express the point Doom needs no partners, as Doom has no equals.

-Pr-
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Something tells me the familiarity problem swings both ways. But I can't recall offhand the details of each fight battlesuit Lex has had with Superman to impress the idea further.

it does swing both ways (heh). look at lex during the "last son" arc.

i just think it hinders lex more than it does superman.

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by -Pr-
it does swing both ways (heh). look at lex during the "last son" arc.

i just think it hinders lex more than it does superman. Sorry, I wasn't aware that the last chapter of Last Son was published yet. I gave up after the first 11 months... no expression

Lois ain't around to bonk Lex in the back of the head with an icicle.

-Pr-
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Sorry, I wasn't aware that the last chapter of Last Son was published yet. I gave up after the first 11 months... no expression

Lois ain't around to bonk Lex in the back of the head with an icicle.

it was in the annual lol.

OneDumbG0
^ I know, that's where I got the Lois bonking Lex in the head with an icicle thing from. I was making fun of it's long delay. Thanks for ruining the punchline. crackers

-Pr-
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ I know, that's where I got the Lois bonking Lex in the head with an icicle thing from. I was making fun of it's long delay. Thanks for ruining the punchline. crackers

sad

i honestly haven't read it in a while.

Black bolt z
Doom doesn't need lex's help to beat supes.

Warlord
Originally posted by Bentley
Beh, not straight battles, plot devices all around and here I never claimed Doom isn't amazing with prep, he is. There isn't any prep here though.


le fay was straight IIRC

Warlord
Originally posted by -Pr-


With Doom there they can win (and will most definitely take some if not the majority), but it's not going to be 10/10. Not nearly.



this

Bentley
Originally posted by Warlord
le fay was straight IIRC

Certainly it wasn't as if he fully prepped against her, but Lefay, being a prepper like she is, and Doom being aware of her from a while cannot be fully accounted as a non-prepped combat. I think it's not downplaying Doom to think him capable of having a plan in case his association with Lefay went sour.

zeel
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Hasn't Lex fought Superman straight-up with his battle-suit? This makes no sense. Superman ain't no Sentry. Also, let me know where in the OP, Doom is fending off Wonderman, Ares, Wasp, Spiderwoman, etc. and is distracted. Because the first time Sentry bumrushed Doom, Doom messed Sentry up with his magic and was asked to relent by Stark. I don't think Superman is going to fare any better with that spell or have Tony Stark around to stop him. Lex has no chance against Superman in his suit? That sounds dumb.


of coarse superman aint no sentry hes 10 times the fighter and combatant sentry is.

With prep supes is toast without supes makes short work of the 2.

Mindset
Sentry > supes

Parmaniac
shit > Supes

Black bolt z
Originally posted by Parmaniac
shit > Supes shit>>>>>sentry

Bentley
Imo most high herald levelers should be able to take on this team without much problem, the only real argument for they to take on Supes is heavy weakness exploitation.

godking
Originally posted by Mindset
Sentry > supes
Supes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sentry.

Not because he is that much more powerful but because he is not an easily deceived & controlled schizo drug addict.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Parmaniac
shit > Supes Agreed.

Bentley
Originally posted by quanchi112
Agreed.

Dude, you've been here long enough to know pointless character bashing is spamming and trolling. Refrain to do so in the future or just put it in your signature if you really need to share it that much.


...

Did you see? I called Quan dude and went mad-mod at him shifty

quanchi112
Originally posted by Bentley
Dude, you've been here long enough to know pointless character bashing is spamming and trolling. Refrain to do so in the future or just put it in your signature if you really need to share it that much.


...

Did you see? I called Quan dude and went mad-mod at him shifty I just agreed with a fellow poster, dude.

Bentley
Originally posted by quanchi112
I just agreed with a fellow poster, dude.


That you did peaches


Which side you think wins this battle btw?

quanchi112
Originally posted by Bentley
That you did peaches


Which side you think wins this battle btw? Team. Magic and these two minds are just too much for him to overcome.

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