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1. Who elevated themselves to a higher level
2. Who achieved the most in tech
3. Who has the most potential
4. Who is smarter

What are we supposed to compare here?

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
What are we supposed to compare here? read OP

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
read OP Dr M never created himself
HE has tons of feats of him creating tech, Dr M has like 2
HE pushed himself to the peak of human intelligence, and can evolve or devolve almost anyone
HE created his own planet

This isn't even a comparison

H1 is bound to pop by anytime soon.

HE stomps him in a fight and everything you listed.

F9077LLoP9A

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/51954/1491763-11_04_10_01_80_copy_super.jpg

I'm also waiting on Uriel005 to pop up soon. LOL.

And you're here to seal the deal.

Originally posted by The Nuul
And you're here to seal the deal.

Yessir. I'm very very bored.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
I'm also waiting on Uriel005 to pop up soon. LOL.

Hey I was just playing a devils advocate I did say that Manhattan was probably going to lose just that with his power set depending on how could would be flushed out could pull quite a few wins. I also said he is a bad character to use in a forum fight as his feat list is like 2 lines worth of type and there was no one to ever challenge him to make him need to be stronger. I also said most of his limitations were based on the lie of Ozzymandius by blocking his vision of the future. That said I do believe HE takes most of the fights and Manhattan as he is taking maybe 1 or 2.

1)Manhattan didn't elevate his level it was a complete derp derp accident. HE takes this one with ease

2) John has 1 comic book series that amounts to about a 1 day read. HE goes back how far... of course he's gonna develop more and better tech as well as needing to in order to combat opponents of relatively high caliber whereas John had not a single thing on earth that could threaten or depower him.

3) Moot point we'll never know Manhattan's potential because he had no reason to explore it. HE I guess.

4) Manhattan if he was in HE's place. He would see all the experience he would ever have in combat and therefore would be able to see the outcomes. If knowing the outcome of any action you take isn't smarts I'm not sure what is. However as is HE is smarter beacuase he has every reason to keep improving himself whereas Manhattan as it stands is essentially a god in his universe.

bump

HE in everything.

Dr Manhattan is a much more interesting character. That said HE wins in every category.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
That said HE wins in every category. based on what? we were never shown the limits of Dr. M, and from what we do see...he was approaching near omnipotence...or as near as you get in a comic without transcending skyfather level

Originally posted by Starscream M
based on what? we were never shown the limits of Dr. M, and from what we do see...he was approaching near omnipotence...or as near as you get in a comic without transcending skyfather level
We were also never shown the limits of Tom Bombadil in Lord of the Rings, that doesn't mean an LOTR fanboy would be right if he said he's God.

I don't think Jon Osterman did anything that transcended High Herald personally.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
We were also never shown the limits of Tom Bombadil in Lord of the Rings, that doesn't mean an LOTR fanboy would be right if he said he's God.

I don't think Jon Osterman did anything that transcended High Herald personally. oh gimme a damn break...your analogy is horrible

tom baombadil (whoever that is) didn't do shit in LOTR...Dr.M showed godlike abilities

teleportation

matter manipulation

matter disassembly and assembly level powers

invincibility

what exactly does HE trump Dr. M in and what are you basing it on?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Dr Manhattan is a much more interesting character. That said HE wins in every category. This.Originally posted by Omega Vision
We were also never shown the limits of Tom Bombadil in Lord of the Rings, that doesn't mean an LOTR fanboy would be right if he said he's God.

I don't think Jon Osterman did anything that transcended High Herald personally. I can see him beating high heralds.

Like superman,adam.

But no to any energy manipulators like BB,Thor,Surfer.

Originally posted by Black bolt z


But no to any energy manipulators like BB,Thor,Surfer. again, based on what exactly? or are you just pulling it outta your behind like OV apparently is?

Originally posted by Starscream M
oh gimme a damn break...your analogy is horrible

tom baombadil (whoever that is) didn't do shit in LOTR...Dr.M showed godlike abilities

teleportation

matter manipulation

matter disassembly and assembly level powers

invincibility

what exactly does HE trump Dr. M in and what are you basing it on?
Tom Bombadil had power over the Barrow Wights. Tom Bombadil was beyond the One Ring's grasp. Tom Bombadil was older than anyone could remember. All those things were super epic. Ergo he's God.

That's essentially the argument I've seen (and once advanced myself when I first joined this forum) used to elevate DM beyond the Herald tier where he belongs despite not having the feats to support it.

My response to those DM powers you've listed is the same as your response would be to the feats of Tom Bombadil:

"So what?"

Originally posted by Starscream M
again, based on what exactly? or are you just pulling it outta your behind like OV apparently is? And what are you bringing to prove Dr. M can win?

His most impressive feat by far would either by surviving de-atomization or walking on the surface of the sun.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
And what are you bringing to prove Dr. M can win?

His most impressive feat by far would either by surviving de-atomization or walking on the surface of the sun. I didn't say Dr. M would win

based on what we've seen, he certainly seems on par with HE

my question is what makes you think H.E. trumps him?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Tom Bombadil had power over the Barrow Wights. Tom Bombadil was beyond the One Ring's grasp. Tom Bombadil was older than anyone could remember. All those things were super epic. Ergo he's God.

That's essentially the argument I've seen (and once advanced myself when I first joined this forum) used to elevate DM beyond the Herald tier where he belongs despite not having the feats to support it.

My response to those DM powers you've listed is the same as your response would be to the feats of Tom Bombadil:

"So what?" if that's all that was shown of this tom bombadil...then we truly can't really debate him

which is my point with Dr. M

I don't think we can debate a character unless we know their upper limit...or have some idea...which we really don't with Dr. M

which is why I don't understand how you could just claim HE trumps him in all aspects

Originally posted by Starscream M
I didn't say Dr. M would win

based on what we've seen, he certainly seems on par with HE

my question is what makes you think H.E. trumps him? And what have we seen?Feats that HE at his lowest showings could replicate?

Far superior feats even at base level?

Originally posted by Starscream M
oh gimme a damn break...your analogy is horrible

tom baombadil (whoever that is) didn't do shit in LOTR...Dr.M showed godlike abilities

teleportation

matter manipulation

matter disassembly and assembly level powers

invincibility

what exactly does HE trump Dr. M in and what are you basing it on? Yes teleportation

Tranmustion to only a certain degree well within the ability of other heralds.

True

Invincibility to physical force only.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
And what have we seen?Feats that HE at his lowest showings could replicate?

Far superior feats even at base level? really...when did HE form multiple copies of perfect versions of himself?

when did HE disassemble complex machinery into its most basic components with a mere thought

when did HE ever demolecularize an opponent with but a thought

Originally posted by Starscream M
really...when did HE form multiple copies of perfect versions of himself?

when did HE disassemble complex machinery into its most basic components with a mere thought

when did HE ever demolecularize an opponent with but a thought He could take another human and evolve him just like he did himself.

He once created an adamantium cage out of thin air.

When did ozy ever do it to anythign stronger then a regular manourished human?

Originally posted by Black bolt z
He could take another human and evolve him just like he did himself.

He once created an adamantium cage out of thin air.

When did ozy ever do it to anythign stronger then a regular manourished human? admantium cage is complex machinery lol

a malnourished human is no different to demolecularize than a well fed human

atoms are atoms

Originally posted by Starscream M
admantium cage is complex machinery lol

a malnourished human is no different to demolecularize than a well fed human

atoms are atoms If you know that molecule man said that adamantium "feels weird" it sounds complex.Even if own isn't exactly smart.

Yes but any energy manipulating low herald should be capable of blowing a human apart.

Originally posted by Black bolt z

Yes but any energy manipulating low herald should be capable of blowing a human apart. with a mere thought? example please.

Originally posted by Starscream M
with a mere thought? example please. With a blast of his hand.

1. Who elevated themselves to a higher level

DM was a freak accident. HE made himself into what he is and while his levels vary, he's usually at HH or trans tier and has pushed himself into the fringes of cosmic power, even though this usually takes a tow on his sanity.

2. Who achieved the most in tech

DM was working on cold fusion or something? HE has screwed with the inner workings of celestials and has created a planet.

3. Who has the most potential

See answer 1

4. Who is smarter

HE is smarter than Reed Richards. DM wasnt smarter than Ozzie. He was a much better character than HE though, that's for sure.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Tom Bombadil had power over the Barrow Wights. Tom Bombadil was beyond the One Ring's grasp. Tom Bombadil was older than anyone could remember. All those things were super epic. Ergo he's God.

That's essentially the argument I've seen (and once advanced myself when I first joined this forum) used to elevate DM beyond the Herald tier where he belongs despite not having the feats to support it.

My response to those DM powers you've listed is the same as your response would be to the feats of Tom Bombadil:

"So what?"

The confusion might be because Bombadil wasn't in the movies. But he was so powerful that he could see someone when they were wearing the ring. The ring tried to get away from him when he went to pick it up or at least his nature was so antithetical that it didn't want him touching it. It had zero effect on him and he tossed it aside without a thought. So yes, the "No-limits Fallacy" would be that since we don't see anything he can't do, he can do anything whether he actually did it or not.

The problem is the same Catch-22 with Dr. Manhattan. Can he create a planet? We go into, "Well, he didn't but there was no need to so you can't prove he couldn't." Well, no, and I can't prove that Q from Star Trek can't destroy galaxies just because he never did and never displayed sheer destructive power even close to destroying entire galaxies. Therefore, in a fight against Galactus, the fact that Q never tried equals Galactus's actually doing these things."

It's the equivalent of "You can't prove I can't benchpress 400 pounds since I've never tried."

On the flipside, when they did the original DC roleplaying game, apparently Alan Moore worked closely with the game designers. According to them, he was quite anxious to volunteer information about certain things, especially Dr. Manhattan. Perhaps because the nature of the story required Manhattan to be so restricted and he only had 12 appearances, Moore was glad to give them information about what Manhattan's true power levels were. If the game was valid as evidence, Manhattan would dropkick heralds of Galactus and be a true cosmic himself.

Bottom line: going by the rules, going with a feats-based system where the proof has to be that he displayed power on a certain level, the High Evolutionary wins on all counts.

regardless of power levels, DM's intelligence and tech feats dont come close and he never amped himself.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/51954/1544499-heavengers3vp3.jpg http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/51954/1544500-heavengers4tu5.jpg

Hulk got ***** slapped...

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
Hulk got ***** slapped... indeed

bump

SupremeMan

Weird thread.

Look at the thread starter's history and this is one of the normal ones.

I like how he had to bump it like three times. And the Tom Bombadil comparison made me laugh.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
And the Tom Bombadil comparison made me laugh.