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Not current Daredevil, but the normal one.





I think X would be the victor, what do you all think?

how can X lose?

Not sure, thats why I made the thread. personly I think at would beat pretty much an melee oriented street leveler and even most low meta (unless they have vastly superior damage soak or physical abilities)

Daredevil would beat him. The whole point about Mister X's weaknesses is the fact that he can't beat people with superhuman speed or abilities without some form of PIS involved. He can read someone's mind which we don't know if it would work on Daredevil anyway.


I mean even Iron Fist beat Mister X(post Kun Lun training) but still it shows hes not capable of beating a top tier martial artist like DD.

He reads someone's nerve impulses and should have no problem telling what attacks Matt is going to throw.

Originally posted by SasuOna
The whole point about Mister X's weaknesses is the fact that he can't beat people with superhuman speed

Mister X held the upper hand against Wolverine, Daredevil can't win here, DD is not faster and the stats acros the board are pretty even between matt and X, save X's ability which should give him the win every time.

yea, unfortunately matt cant win here.

Originally posted by Q99
He reads someone's nerve impulses and should have no problem telling what attacks Matt is going to throw.

Because Matt's powers don't allow him to do the exact same thing?
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/871/daredevil260vitalsigns0.jpg

Keeping up with Wolverine is not even a good excuse to say Daredevil loses this fight. Matt beat Wolverine without even trying in Enemy of the State.
If you want to go by Secondary canon ie the MU handbook then you might as well give up debating and showing feats since something thats over 5 years old now must hold precedence over current revelations about both characters.

Wolverine doesn't have reflexes comparable to Daredevil and Mister X loses to people when they become unpredictable. Hes hardly considered a top tier martial artist if he essentially relies on his powers rather than his skill.

Originally posted by Juk3n
Mister X held the upper hand against Wolverine, Daredevil can't win here, DD is not faster and the stats acros the board are pretty even between matt and X, save X's ability which should give him the win every time. DD has better feats. DD can read his moves, too. DD wins.

Originally posted by SasuOna
Because Matt's powers don't allow him to do the exact same thing?
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/871/daredevil260vitalsigns0.jpg

Keeping up with Wolverine is not even a good excuse to say Daredevil loses this fight. Matt beat Wolverine without even trying in Enemy of the State.
If you want to go by Secondary canon ie the MU handbook then you might as well give up debating and showing feats since something thats over 5 years old now must hold precedence over current revelations about both characters.

Wolverine doesn't have reflexes comparable to Daredevil and Mister X loses to people when they become unpredictable. Hes hardly considered a top tier martial artist if he essentially relies on his powers rather than his skill.

Wolverine was mind controlled in EotS, missing part of his soul, only fighting DD to draw Elektra into the open... and all Matt didn't beat him, all he managed to do was momentarily break the mind control.

Wolverine's reflexes are better than DD. We've even been given a number before, .038. His combat speed reflexes (going from neutral to an extended punch) is almost 8 times faster than a human's finger time reaction time.

I also love how hitting Mister X once and then attacking Osborn as somehow become "Iron Fist beat Mister X. He hit him once, and we saw him a few seconds latter standing beside Osborn... and he was fine.

Originally posted by SasuOna
Daredevil would beat him.
Why is this? and knowing you your going to have the most absurd reasons.


Originally posted by SasuOna
point about Mister X's weaknesses is the fact that he can't beat people with superhuman speed or abilities without some form of PIS involved.

Except he has, and as usual everything you dislike you right off as PIS.

DD does not have superior speed to Mister X.


Originally posted by SasuOna
read someone's mind which we don't know if it would work on Daredevil anyway.

Why would it not work on DD? It work on individuals with far better TP resistant feats.

Originally posted by SasuOna
mean even Iron Fist beat Mister X(post Kun Lun training) but still it shows hes not capable of beating a top tier martial artist like DD.
Lol I love how you base dyour entire opinion on the single issue that reember wrote which contradict X entire characters and the entire arc.

X already showed that he trained against such tactics, it was clearly PIS. Auther did not do his homework.

But not surprising coming from you, that you would take the one extremely low/pis showing and pretend it the norm

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Wolverine was mind controlled in EotS, missing part of his soul, only fighting DD to draw Elektra into the open... and all Matt didn't beat him, all he managed to do was momentarily break the mind control.

Wolverine's reflexes are better than DD. We've even been given a number before, .038. His combat speed reflexes (going from neutral to an extended punch) is almost 8 times faster than a human's finger time reaction time.

I also love how hitting Mister X once and then attacking Osborn as somehow become "Iron Fist beat Mister X. He hit him once, and we saw him a few seconds latter standing beside Osborn... and he was fine.
cosigned.






not to mention that entire incident ignored X abilities which were shown through out the arc and was the only issue written by reember who down played all of the thunderbolts abilities. Hell even the move IF used, should never had work, it was even stated IF trained against it and even displayed the ability to combat such tactics two year prior comic time to his fight with IF. It the definition of PIS, but as usual people try and pretend thats the norm

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Why is this? and knowing you your going to have the most absurd reasons.




Except he has, and as usual everything you dislike you right off as PIS.

DD does not have superior speed to Mister X.



Why would it not work on DD? It work on individuals with far better TP resistant feats.


Lol I love how you base dyour entire opinion on the single issue that reember wrote which contradict X entire characters and the entire arc.

X already showed that he trained against such tactics, it was clearly PIS. Auther did not do his homework.

But not surprising coming from you, that you would take the one extremely low/pis showing and pretend it the norm
Show me where Mister X has exhibited beyond peak human anything because besides his powers allowing him to read his opponents hes not superhuman in any of his stats.
We already saw what happened to him when Iron Fist got unpredictable and showed how his peak human stats can't compare to that of someone who can actually do superhuman feats.
Overlooking who hes beaten and how his powers work we would know he relies less of his skills as a martial artist and more on his powers which is evidenced in all his fights.

Originally posted by SasuOna
Show me where Mister X has exhibited beyond peak human anything because besides his powers allowing him to read his opponents hes not superhuman in any of his stats.

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/536/xfight4.th.jpg

You were saying?
Originally posted by SasuOna
already saw what happened to him when Iron Fist got unpredictable and showed how his peak human stats can't compare to that of someone who can actually do superhuman feats.
No what IF did was uses drunken fist which mad ehim fight on pure instinct. However the author of that issue reember did not do his homework. That has not been a weakness of X for a long time.

Love how you uses the single issue which contradicts X entire history and pretend it the norm

Originally posted by SasuOna
who hes beaten and how his powers work we would know he relies less of his skills as a martial artist and more on his powers which is evidenced in all his fights. :
Does not matter what he relies on, DD has no way of blocking x powers, so your entire arguement is irrelevent.

DD wins this. He too can read fighters in a different way by there heart rate/muscles tensing/ radar movement. This would throw X off. IIRC IronFist messed up X by just using drunken style and Logan with just instinctive moves.

DD could do the same.

Thats not that impressive considering even Zaran a low B-lister has blocked multiple bullets.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
DD wins this. He too can read fighters in a different way. IIRC IronFist messed up X by just using drunken style and Logan with just instinctive moves.

DD could do the same.
X trained against that as shown and stated in his one shot.


IF thing was PIS, and contradicted his entire history, your better then that my friend.

Now I am assuming you simply have not read his history. The instinct tactic does not work, X trained his powers to combat such tactics, and showcased it against Deadpool.

also it was berserker wolverine, he would rape stomp DD.


No he can't and it won't work.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Thats not that impressive considering even Zaran a low B-lister has blocked multiple bullets.
Not to that digree and not by some one of black widow caliber. Please don't try and down play feats and feed the troll.

But he would still be thrown off by DD own reading ability which would make it even. And DD is the better fighter. X can't counter DD exotic pressure point fighting and stealth disappearance in broad day light.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Not to that digree and not by some one of black widow caliber. Please don't try and down play feats and feed the troll.


Not my fault its not that impressive. And BW firing the bullets doesn't change the speed of the bullet anyhow.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
DD wins this. He too can read fighters in a different way by there heart rate/muscles tensing/ radar movement. This would throw X off. .


Why on earth would that throw X off? X would be reacting to his reaction, his ability completely trumps DD own.

Not to mention Wolverine can do similar and has displayed that same ability to predict opponents attacks, and it was utterly useless against X

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Not my fault its not that impressive.
You saying something not impressive does not make it so. It better deflecting feat then i have seen of any street leveler including DD.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Why on earth would that throw X off? X would be reacting to his reaction, his ability completely trumps DD own.

Not to mention Wolverine can do similar and has displayed that same ability to predict opponents attacks, and it was utterly useless against X


Wrong Logan once admitted he couldn't sneak up on a alert Daredevil. Even Spiderman spider sense didn't react as quickly to DD radar.


X is in trouble since DD is the better fighter.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
But he would still be thrown off by DD own reading ability which would make it even. And DD is the better fighter. X can't counter DD exotic pressure point fighting and stealth disappearance in broad day light.
No it wouldent, his ability is to lock onto DD impulses. DD ability to read moves would be irrelevent, X would be reflexively raacting to everyone of DD moves. Also on top of that X is also a telepath.


You trying to pretend DD ability will stalemate X, is simply ignorance.


He gunna now disapear in broad daylight infront of X? Is this your arguement? serously? Dam I remember you being far better poster, perhaps I vastly overestimated you.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
You saying something not impressive does not make it so. It better deflecting feat then i have seen of any street leveler including DD.


Please DD has deflected a bullet back to the target.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
No it wouldent, his ability is to lock onto DD impulses. DD ability to read moves would be irrelevent, X would be reflexively raacting to everyone of DD moves. Also on top of that X is also a telepath.


You trying to pretend DD ability will stalemate X, is simply ignorance.


He gunna now disapear in broad daylight infront of X? Is this your arguement? serously? Dam I remember you being far better poster, perhaps I vastly overestimated you.



Ninja stealth??? DD done it before to snipers is broad day light. DD fighting style is base off from Mystical Stick. Are you that ignorant.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Wrong Logan once admitted he couldn't sneak up on a alert Daredevil. Even Spiderman spider sense didn't react as quickly to DD radar.


X is in trouble since DD is the better fighter.



So? DD can't sneak up on an alert Wolverine either, so i don't so what the point of your arguement is. Yea and wolverine has done the same several times in new avengers. He also was able to decern Iron Man was double ganger well before DD did during infinity crusades.




Irrelevent. X ability completely trumps DD.

Just because you say so doesn't make it so. DD ability trumps X(see I did it too.)

Fact is DD's track record is >>>> the X.(and thats the truth)

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Ninja stealth??? DD done it before to snipers is broad day light. DD fighting style is base off from Mystical Stick. Are you that ignorant.
No you are clearly the ignorant one. I did vastly overestimate you, clearly.



let me get this straight your arguement is that DD will vanish infront of X in a featureless enviorment in broad daylight? Are you ****ign high?


Wolverien done that to an establish character such as night crawler not some common fodder, and he was not able to do that against mister x, but some how DD will?

Honestly can you get any more bias?

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Just because you say so doesn't make it so. DD ability trumps X(see I did it too.)

Fact is DD's track record is >>>> the X.(and thats the truth)
No, but the factor it does, makes it so

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/7458/thunderbolts132011.th.jpg

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/1446/thunderbolts132012.th.jpg



verse what?

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
No you are clearly the ignorant one. I did vastly overestimate you, clearly.



let me get this straight your arguement is that DD will vanish infront of X in a featureless enviorment in broad daylight? Are you ****ign high?


Wolverien done that to an establish character such as night crawler not some common fodder, and he was not able to do that against mister x, but some how DD will?

Honestly can you get any more bias?


He could but its time for you too listen up. Look they both have a fancy reading ability(who's better is more augmentative) so we'll just say the both cancel each other out.

Now with that said only one of these fighters has been trained in a exotic more advanced fighting style and only one of these fighters has a greater track record.

So with all things even DD is that one since there reading ability cancels each others out. Get it.......good.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Please DD has deflected a bullet back to the target.
deflecting single bullets by cannon fodder, is not nearly as impressive is deflect each individual bullet spread around your body, to the point of someone unloading an entire clip of ammo....oh and it was being firer by black widow now less.

^^has nothing to do with DD1's statement. All the bullets are travelling at the same speed and just because its black widow doesn't give the right to make any more of the feat than that. Mister X is a bullet timer good so are plenty of other peak human characters in the MU. Still doesn't show me how hes not using his powers to do that?

Arguing off topic for a minute you seem to think that Mister X losing to post Kun Lun Iron Fist is PIS or somehow a writer not knowing how to write said villain up to par but when I bring up the fact that Daredevil beat Wolverine in Enemy of the State while he was actively trying to kill him( the same storyline that notes many times being mind controlled doesn't take away Wolverine's training or his superhuman stats) you have no argument for it.

A berserker Wolverine can be beat by Elektra how is he supposed to stomp Daredevil again?
Oh yeah thats right because thats not applicable for some reason. The sooner you admit Wolverine is always shown to be shit against credible MA in the MU the sooner we can get to the fact that Daredevil would win this fight.

And No Logan has never displayed reflexes on par with Daredevil or Spider-man for that matter. Like I pointed out in other threads he lacks the feats to even be compared to those two much less have reactions on par with either of their senses.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
He could but its time for you too listen up. Look they both have a fancy reading ability(who's better is more augmentative) so we'll just say the both cancel each other out.

Now with that said only one of these fighters has been trained in a exotic more advanced fighting style and only one of these fighters has a greater track record.

So with all things even DD is that one since there reading ability cancels each others out. Get it.......good.
except they don't one locks onto the other impulses in there brain and reflexively reacts to them, and also posses the ability to read his opponents mind, while the other senses person muscles twitch. There arnt equal at all, the only reason you think this, is becuase your mad bias.


Thats all speculation, not fact.



except they don't cancel it out which is what you seem unable to grasp.

Originally posted by SasuOna
And No Logan has never displayed reflexes on par with Daredevil or Spider-man for that matter. Like I pointed out in other threads he lacks the feats to even be compared to those two much less have reactions on par with either of their senses.

Thats going a bit too far.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
deflecting single bullets by cannon fodder, is not nearly as impressive is deflect each individual bullet spread around your body, to the point of someone unloading an entire clip of ammo....oh and it was being firer by black widow now less.



LOL except he didn't DD richochet the damn bullet back to the target inbetween his eyes...LOL

Also DD has blocked two bullets from a rifile. Also since your so impressed with bullet blocking.

He's loser Zaran blocking multiple bullets from 4 guys with oozies....LOL.

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/1541/72741zaran2122411lo.th.jpg

But even that's not that impressive since Zaran is a low level compared to Daredevil. And even Daredevil has ricocheted to the point a bullet back at the shooter...in between his eyes.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
LOL except he didn't DD richochet the damn bullet back to the target inbetween his eyes...LOL

Also DD has blocked two bullets from a rifile. Also since your so impressed with bullet blocking.

He's loser Zaran blocking multiple bullets from 4 guys with oozies....LOL.

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/1541/72741zaran2122411lo.th.jpg

Owned haha.

Originally posted by Deadline
Thats going a bit too far.

Hes a legit aimdodger and has no bullet timing feats.
Why should I consider him on par with Spider-man who has dodged a sniper rifle point black or Daredevil who dodged a shotgun blast point blank.

His reactions which are said to be superhuman lack the substance of both of theirs. Its not far off to say he doesn't compare to either of them that department.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
except they don't one locks onto the other impulses in there brain and reflexively reacts to them, and also posses the ability to read his opponents mind, while the other senses person muscles twitch. There arnt equal at all, the only reason you think this, is becuase your mad bias.


Thats all speculation, not fact.



except they don't cancel it out which is what you seem unable to grasp.


Your mad and bias. DD's radar can track bullets in flight and even got the advantage before on Spidey spider sense in out reacting it. Seriously your just mad because X gets routinely trounced by Ironfist and Logan. And was stupified by Luke Cage of all people.

Originally posted by SasuOna
Arguing off topic for a minute you seem to think that Mister X losing to post Kun Lun Iron Fist is PIS or somehow a writer not knowing how to write said villain up to par
It pis, becuase he shown and stated to have trained his powers against that very tactic. The author of that issue only wrote a single comic which contradicted the entire rets of the arc, thats why it pis. Feel free to read the arc, it quite evident.

Originally posted by SasuOna
when I bring up the fact that Daredevil beat Wolverine in Enemy of the State while he was actively trying to kill him( the same storyline that notes many times being mind controlled doesn't take away Wolverine's training or his superhuman stats) you have no argument for it.
First there not remotely similar. Not sure why you think they are.


Actually wolverine stated to matt after the fight "tell nick I tried my best not to nail another mask".


It never once stated in that arc that it did not take away from his abilities, that some bullshit you made up.

No there plenty of arguements I have for it, but srank beat me to it. Wolverine clearly states he was fighting the mind controlling and he was not even 100% at the time he was missing part of his soul.

Honestly please keep up, your ignorant is astounding.



Originally posted by SasuOna
berserker Wolverine can be beat by Elektra how is he supposed to stomp Daredevil again?
No it can't. honestly you have no idea what your talking about.


Originally posted by SasuOna
yeah thats right because thats not applicable for some reason. The sooner you admit Wolverine is always shown to be shit against credible MA in the MU the sooner we can get to the fact that Daredevil would win this fight.


Always shown to be shit?

He put DD in a full nelson in five pannels, beat shang-chi in five pannel easily i might add, beaten Ogun, stalemated stick, gave capt a blood clot ect.

honestly your ignorance of wolverine is astounding.


Originally posted by SasuOna
No Logan has never displayed reflexes on par with Daredevil or Spider-man for that matter. Like I pointed out in other threads he lacks the feats to even be compared to those two much less have reactions on par with either of their senses.
Except he has, you saying something and it being true, are completely different things.

Originally posted by SasuOna
Hes a legit aimdodger and has no bullet timing feats.
Why should I consider him on par with Spider-man who has dodged a sniper rifle point black or Daredevil who dodged a shotgun blast point blank.

His reactions which are said to be superhuman lack the substance of both of theirs. Its not far off to say he doesn't compare to either of them that department.

Wolverine has lots of bullet dodging feats. Its just sometimes he lets people hit him and he also has HF.

Originally posted by SasuOna
^^has nothing to do with DD1's statement. All the bullets are travelling at the same speed and just because its black widow doesn't give the right to make any more of the feat than that. Mister X is a bullet timer good so are plenty of other peak human characters in the MU. Still doesn't show me how hes not using his powers to do that?

Arguing off topic for a minute you seem to think that Mister X losing to post Kun Lun Iron Fist is PIS or somehow a writer not knowing how to write said villain up to par but when I bring up the fact that Daredevil beat Wolverine in Enemy of the State while he was actively trying to kill him( the same storyline that notes many times being mind controlled doesn't take away Wolverine's training or his superhuman stats) you have no argument for it.

A berserker Wolverine can be beat by Elektra how is he supposed to stomp Daredevil again?
Oh yeah thats right because thats not applicable for some reason. The sooner you admit Wolverine is always shown to be shit against credible MA in the MU the sooner we can get to the fact that Daredevil would win this fight.

And No Logan has never displayed reflexes on par with Daredevil or Spider-man for that matter. Like I pointed out in other threads he lacks the feats to even be compared to those two much less have reactions on par with either of their senses.

Do you have to try hard to be so wrong or it an innate gift? I haven't seen a single post where you are anywhere close to hitting the target.

Iron Fist never beat Mister X, he hit him once and then moved to a different target. X was fine when he was seen seconds latter. Daredevil never beat Wolverine in EotS, he merely broke his mind control, and Wolverine wasn't actively trying to kill him, he was only fighting him to draw Elektra out into the open and expressly stated he was trying his best to make sure nothing bad happened that night. Elektra has never beaten a berserker Wolverine. She trained a mindless bone claw Wolverine, and got the drop on a half dead mindcontrolled Wolverine while he was already engaged in a fight at the start of EotS. Elektra is better than DD across the board anyway.

Wolverine's reflex feats are easily superior to DD, and on par with Spider-mans. His combat speed feats are among his most impressive...

Srank you have fun with them, I am done. It pointless to argue with people that delusional.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin

Wolverine's reflex feats are easily superior to DD, and on par with Spider-mans. His combat speed feats are among his most impressive...

O god you're not saying Wolverines reflexes are as good as Spidermans?

Originally posted by Deadline
O god you're not saying Wolverines reflexes are as good as Spidermans?



Even fuggin Spiderman himself was wondering once how Daredevil does what he did to save him from a sniper bullet. But even "that" doesn't make me believe DD is as fast as Spiderman.

Both X and Daredevil are a hair slower then prob Logan but not by much.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Even fuggin Spiderman himself was wondering once how Daredevil does what he did to save him from a sniper bullet. But even "that" doesn't make me believe DD is as fast as Spiderman.

Thank god.

Originally posted by Deadline
O god you're not saying Wolverines reflexes are as good as Spidermans?


Considering he just said on par with Spiderman. He already answered your question.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin


Iron Fist never beat Mister X, he hit him once and then moved to a different target. X was fine when he was seen seconds latter. Daredevil never beat Wolverine in EotS, he merely broke his mind control, and Wolverine wasn't actively trying to kill him, he was only fighting him to draw Elektra out into the open and expressly stated he was trying his best to make sure nothing bad happened that night. Elektra has never beaten a berserker Wolverine. She trained a mindless bone claw Wolverine, and got the drop on a half dead mindcontrolled Wolverine while he was already engaged in a fight at the start of EotS. Elektra is better than DD across the board anyway.

Wolverine's reflex feats are easily superior to DD, and on par with Spider-mans. His combat speed feats are among his most impressive...
Mister X got hit by Iron Fist and saying he fine seconds later is an assumption on your part, since we don't know how much time passed. I still consider that a loss for him with his powers.
Wolverine while mindcontrolled is the same threat as he always was this was noted many times in Enemy of the State. Lets stop trying to warp canon to change things you don't like about the fight.
Wolverine has only ever gotten the jump on Daredevil when he was wearing a heavier costume that slowed him down to Logan's level.

Elektra is superior to Daredevil across the board how? because you need to justify why Wolverine is legitimately losing to her. Sorry no they were trained by the same master and Stick beyond the grave even pointed out that they were pretty much equals.

Combat speed is the same as reflexes now and no Wolverine has no feats that put him on par with Spider-man or Daredevil's. If Wolverine were that fast he would actively try and deflect or dodge bullets instead of needlessly hurting himself by getting shot all the time. Wolverine has not dodged a sniper round or even shown me any type of speed feats that would make me consider him a bullet timer.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Considering he just said on par with Spiderman. He already answered your question.

I know but sometimes you can't believe the shit he comes out with.

Ugh.. there's a thing called "context" people. Daredevil was fighting a mindcontrolled Wolverine who was fighting it the whole time, not to mention he didnt beat Logan. He accidentally impaled Logan on a sword and Logan willingly stopped fighting because it helped him break the mind control. Being impaled didnt even slow him down in the past. Saying that Daredevil is faster or a better fighter than Logan is just false. His radar is the only advantage.

And DD's ability to predict moves thanks to his radar and training does not cancel X's super power to actually lock on other people's moves. And the guy isnt a lowtier MA fighter either. He beat Taskmaster, Black Widow (who recently stalemated Elektra FYI since we're using the a>b>c logic here), stalemated Wolverine and Deadpool. That's something.

That said, even if DD takes it he'll spend a few months in hospital afterwards.

Originally posted by thanos-prime
DD has better feats. DD can read his moves, too. DD wins.

You're opinion isnt valid if you dn't know one of the characters powerset. Mister X body AUTO locks on to impulses its not something he has to think about, if his opponent isnt vastly faster then on a forum battle he blocks and counters every single attack. So vs DD, he does this, the evidence of this is when he was able to do it to someone who has better stats across the board than DD...Wolverine.

Originally posted by Deadline
O god you're not saying Wolverines reflexes are as good as Spidermans?

We have a concrete number for Wolverine's combat speed reflexes. He can through a punch 8 times faster than the average human's finger tip reaction time. His combat speed is on par with Spider-man's, he can throw a punch as a fast as Spidy can, but Spider-man's reflexes are artificially enhanced thanks to his Spider-sense give him the advantage in dodging / avoidance.

Originally posted by SamZED
Ugh.. there's a thing called "context" people. Daredevil was fighting a mindcontrolled Wolverine who was fighting it the whole time, not to mention he didnt beat Logan. He accidentally impaled Logan on a sword and Logan willingly stopped fighting because it helped him break the mind control. Being impaled didnt even slow him down in the past. Saying that Daredevil is faster or a better fighter than Logan is just not true. His radar is the only advantage.

And DD's ability to predict moves thanks to his radar and training does not cancel X's super power to actually lock on other people's moves. And the guy isnt a lowtier MA fighter. He beat Taskmaster, Black Widow (who recently stalemated Elektra FYI since we're using the a>b>c logic here), stalemated Wolverine and Deadpool. That's something.

That said, even if DD takes it he'll spend a few months in hospital afterwards.


It cancels it in a way that DD is not left vulnerable because of his own body reading/ movement tracking abilities. It doesn't cancel it in a way that it makes X ability disappear mind you.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
It cancels it in a way that DD is not left vulnerable because of his own body reading/ movement tracking abilities. It doesn't cancel it in a way that it makes X ability disappear mind you. I know what you meant by "cancels", I just meant that it doesnt work that way. It HELPS sure, but not to the level where X's powers wont give him an advantage over DD's ability.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
We have a concrete number for Wolverine's combat speed reflexes. He can through a punch 8 times faster than the average human's finger tip reaction time. His combat speed is on par with Spider-man's, he can throw a punch as a fast as Spidy can, but Spider-man's reflexes are artificially enhanced thanks to his Spider-sense give him the advantage in dodging / avoidance. I'll have to disagree with that. But that's a whole different topic.

Originally posted by Juk3n
You're opinion isnt valid if you dn't know one of the characters powerset. Mister X body AUTO locks on to impulses its not something he has to think about, if his opponent isnt vastly faster then on a forum battle he blocks and counters every single attack. So vs DD, he does this, the evidence of this is when he was able to do it to someone who has better stats across the board than DD...Wolverine.

But Wolverine is a bad example since he lacks the body reading and a built in radar.

Originally posted by SamZED
I know what you meant by "cancels", I just say that it doesnt. It HELPS sure, but not to the level where X's powers wont give him an advantage.




That's were I disagree since DD's would give him the advantage, along with his exotic fighting skills.

Sam who you think takes the majority?

Originally posted by Daredevil1
That's were I disagree since DD's would give him the advantage, along with his exotic fighting skills.
Guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that part then. The difference is, DD has to PREDICT other peoples moves using his skills and radar. Its not something he does subcounciously, while X auto-locks on other people's move because of his telepathy. Its just much easier for him.
The exotic fighting style would've helped some time ago. But X really did train to overcome that problem. You dont get better than Deadpool when it comes to being unpredictable, to the point he made Taskmaster cry. But X trained his telepathy to work passed that even. So I dont see DD surprising him with exotic skills.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Sam who you think takes the majority? I actually think its split, but DD would have to fight CIS off for that. IMO its X's telepathy that give him an advantage.

Originally posted by SasuOna
Mister X got hit by Iron Fist and saying he fine seconds later is an assumption on your part, since we don't know how much time passed. I still consider that a loss for him with his powers.
Wolverine while mindcontrolled is the same threat as he always was this was noted many times in Enemy of the State. Lets stop trying to warp canon to change things you don't like about the fight.
Wolverine has only ever gotten the jump on Daredevil when he was wearing a heavier costume that slowed him down to Logan's level.

Elektra is superior to Daredevil across the board how? because you need to justify why Wolverine is legitimately losing to her. Sorry no they were trained by the same master and Stick beyond the grave even pointed out that they were pretty much equals.

Combat speed is the same as reflexes now and no Wolverine has no feats that put him on par with Spider-man or Daredevil's. If Wolverine were that fast he would actively try and deflect or dodge bullets instead of needlessly hurting himself by getting shot all the time. Wolverine has not dodged a sniper round or even shown me any type of speed feats that would make me consider him a bullet timer.

We know how much time passed because we saw it. He hit X, jumped across the board room to attack Osborn. Ghost grabbed him and tossed him outside the window where Headsman slammed him against the window where X was standing find as can be right beside Osborn. That isn't a win, that's a momentary distraction.

EotS Wolverine was not the same threat as he always was. He was actively fighting his conditioning, he said as much. DD didn't beat him, he temporarily broke Wolverine's mind control and a non mind controlled Wolverine had no reason to continue the fight.

Elektra is better because every encounter she has had with DD remotely resembling a fight, she has won? And she was trained longer by Stick than DD, and she received training by all the other members of the Chaste as well. She also had a martial arts back ground before joining the Chaste. She trained with a different master every year before she climbed the mountain and met Stick. Also unlike DD she complete her training with Stick, and even climbed the mountain again, which is why she was with Stick when Wolverine went feral. She also received training from the Hand Elite jounin when she was resurrected and most recently Drake. And she is a telepathic quasi mystical monster who punches through people like rice paper and can move too fast to be caught on camera.

Wolverine doesn't routinely dodge bullets because its a waste of energy, it would be like Super-man dodging snow balls. Even that said he has dodged bullets / lasers / you name it many times. He has even moved fast enough to block the barrel of a gun after the trigger was pulled but before the bullet could leave the chamber.

DD's ability to read body language is not a match for telepathy. It wasn't even a match for Echo's innate ability to read and replicate body language... and it doesn't even work at all on Cap / Cross Bones / Lady Bullseye.

Originally posted by SamZED
Ugh.. there's a thing called "context" people. Daredevil was fighting a mindcontrolled Wolverine who was fighting it the whole time, not to mention he didnt beat Logan. He accidentally impaled Logan on a sword and Logan willingly stopped fighting because it helped him break the mind control. Being impaled didnt even slow him down in the past. Saying that Daredevil is faster or a better fighter than Logan is just false. His radar is the only advantage.

And DD's ability to predict moves thanks to his radar and training does not cancel X's super power to actually lock on other people's moves. And the guy isnt a lowtier MA fighter either. He beat Taskmaster, Black Widow (who recently stalemated Elektra FYI since we're using the a>b>c logic here), stalemated Wolverine and Deadpool. That's something.

That said, even if DD takes it he'll spend a few months in hospital afterwards.
cosigned.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
But Wolverine is a bad example since he lacks the body reading and a built in radar.
That wrong, Wolverine has displayed body reading and preformed many of the feats your using for DD, such as wolverine senses going off about an attack prior to Spidermans.

Only thing Wolverine lacks in radar, but he has enhanced eye sight.

Cap it doesn't work on because of the SSS metabolisim which is a rare one indeed since no once can produce the damn thing.

Cross Bones eh it happened during a arch were DD was messed up from hell anyways. Lady Bullseye he countered IIRC.

Plus it the senses that anticipate movement its the radar that tracks subtle moves. With both work in sync X is going to have problems in "countering" DD. Plus I doubt he can counter DD exotic pressure points with just his style anyhow.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
That wrong, Wolverine has displayed body reading and preformed many of the feats your using for DD, such as wolverine senses going off about an attack prior to Spidermans.

Only thing Wolverine lacks in radar, but he has enhanced eye sight.


And since Logan lacks the radar that throws waaaaaaaaaaay off your equation. Null and void.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
That wrong, Wolverine has displayed body reading and preformed many of the feats your using for DD, such as wolverine senses going off about an attack prior to Spidermans.

Only thing Wolverine lacks in radar, but he has enhanced eye sight.

True. Wolverine has demonstrated a Batgirl-esq instinctive ability to read body language, from his time living with wolves in the Canadian wilderness.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
And since Logan lacks the radar that throws waaaaaaaaaaay off your equation. Null and void.
Not really sinses he posses the other senses, and enhanced sight. Only thing DD has going for him is that his radar allows him to view the world in 360 degree's that does not make up for in inferior physical abilities.

how does 360 vision more helpful against mister x then having superior physical abilities and insane damage soak?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
True. Wolverine has demonstrated a Batgirl-esq instinctive ability to read body language, from his time living with wolves in the Canadian wilderness.
It even been alluded to, that the reason he so pissed off all the time. His naturally picks up people body language so well, he can even pick up on settle changes that there not even consciously aware of.

Originally posted by Daredevil1


Plus it the senses that anticipate movement its the radar that tracks subtle moves. With both work in sync X is going to have problems in "countering" DD. Plus I doubt he can counter DD exotic pressure points with just his style anyhow.
Not really, if you grasp X's powers. Any counter DD tries X not only knows it coming becuase he can read DD mind, but his body automatically blocks or dodges the attack. In melee combat it superior to spidersense.


Also I take dual scimitars over pressure points any day.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Not really, if you grasp X's powers. Any counter DD tries X not only knows it coming becuase he can read DD mind, but his body automatically blocks or dodges the attack. In melee combat it superior to spidersense.
Id say its more effective than spider sense when combined with X's killing skills. ss was also shown to guide his body in a simillar way but Pete mostly uses it defensively while X uses it to land lethal hits.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Not really sinses he posses the other senses, and enhanced sight. Only thing DD has going for him is that his radar allows him to view the world in 360 degree's that does not make up for in inferior physical abilities.

how does 360 vision more helpful against mister x then having superior physical abilities and insane damage soak?


DD radar is better then sight. Guy tracks bullets with it the way you track on to reading this very word that I'm typing. So no Logan cannot produce the same body reading countering that DD applies.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Not really, if you grasp X's powers. Any counter DD tries X not only knows it coming becuase he can read DD mind, but his body automatically blocks or dodges the attack. In melee combat it superior to spidersense.


Also I take dual scimitars over pressure points any day.



Do you even know what DD has achieved with his pressure points? Do you?

Originally posted by SamZED
Id say its more effective than spider sense when combined with X's killing skills. ss was also shown to guide his body in a simillar way but Pete mostly uses it defensively while X uses it to land lethal hits.
I think Spidersenses overall is superior, but in melee, I would side with X's being better mix between offensive and defensive, as well as more consistent.

However Spiderman senses can work on anything, and has far more potential and range in terms of working with any threat presented to spiderman, while mister x is far more limited by his abilities only working living beingings for the most part.


However you could also be right and it more to do with mister X trained skills then his actaul power being more effective.



also on a side note, I thought I should mention that Mister X also has superhuman senses.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Do you even know what DD has achieved with his pressure points? Do you?
yes I have, not that it make much differences against Mr. X, he has all the weak points any other human would have.

I much rather have swords in this match up.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
DD radar is better then sight. Guy tracks bullets with it the way you track on to reading this very word that I'm typing. So no Logan cannot produce the same body reading countering that DD applies.

Logan tracks bullets with his sight as well as other senses. Logan sight is not normal is superhuman.



Logan has though. You act like DD the only one who can read body language, when it far from the case.

DD can turn off your body sensors of speech, pain, paralyze and even eye sight with these so called pressure points. These can indeed help. Not your standard regular fighter pressure points. Plus DD has his own weapon to boot.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Logan tracks bullets with his sight as well as other senses. Logan sight is not normal is superhuman.



Logan has though. You act like DD the only one who can read body language, when it far from the case.



Yes but since Logan lacks the exceptional radar that DD posses he can't anticipate the way DD does. And to use him as the counter example is a big failure in that way.

But then again you did fail in showing X's speed advantage.

When has Wolverine tracked bullets with his sight or even his hearing, let alone reacted to a bullet after it was fired? Is he smelling the bullets after they were fired since thats about his only sense that is superior to DD's.

Oh thats right he hasn't that's just another hyperbole from Dugan to make it seem like Wolverine has the feats to compare with Daredevil's reactions.
In any case Daredevil can use his billy clubs to hit pressure points as well. Mister X will be able to tell where the club is going but since DD casually ricochet's his clubs his powers won't really help him much.

This thread has made me laugh.

Logan speed is on par with Spiderman and Logan can body read like Daredevil.....yikes.

Oh and X speed is above others because of his bullet blocking even though Zaran a athlete has done the same thing in a mid jump at that.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
This thread has made me laugh.

Logan speed is on par with Spiderman and Logan can body read like Daredevil.....yikes.

Oh and X speed is above others because of his bullet blocking even though Zaran a athlete has done the same thing in a mid jump at that.

Gotta love it.

Tend to think Mr.X is overrated i give DD the slight majority

you guys are morons. mr x beats daredevil. stop being such fanboys you're giving dd a bad name and id rather not have my fav hero get a bad name...

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
DD's ability to read body language is not a match for telepathy. It wasn't even a match for Echo's innate ability to read and replicate body language... and it doesn't even work at all on Cap / Cross Bones / Lady Bullseye. you forgot to mention Deadpool creates a static effect keeping him from reading him properly.
http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/7286/coc00404rj2.jpg
pretty sure DD once stated healing factors creates a bio static on his senses..iirc

Originally posted by Lord_Talron
you guys are morons. mr x beats daredevil. stop being such fanboys you're giving dd a bad name and id rather not have my fav hero get a bad name... LOL stfu

lol pretty much everybody on the dd side is grasping at straws and making terrible arguments gtfo dd

Originally posted by Lord_Talron
lol pretty much everybody on the dd side is grasping at straws and making terrible arguments gtfo dd So the Mr. X side isn't doing much better

i used to agree a lot with Lord Talron but not anymore and very rarely but i do agree with him right now.

Well i usually agree with him but i strongly disagree with him here.

Originally posted by iceman24567
Well i usually agree with him but i strongly disagree with him here.


Yeah his statements don't make much sense to me either. Sam is the only one from there side that seems to be legit.

hmmm now Wolvie has body reading abilities, super vision etc...
I wouldn't be surprised if he could fart lightning too...
anyway as for the thread, and being a major DD fan, I say X has the advantage unless Mat ca block his minor TP abilities due to his training. He has exibited some TP resistance in the past

Originally posted by Warlord
hmmm now Wolvie has body reading abilities, super vision etc...

You pretend like this is new.....

for starters he has superhuman senses, which includes eye sight.

Yes wolverine similarly to DD has been able to predicted attacks before they occure and has read people body language. This has been part of his character since his creation.

yet having superhuman senses does not mean he use them in the same way as DD. To be honest I don't remember 3 or more showings of "body reading".
not to mention super sight... not that it would matter anyway in a fight

Originally posted by Warlord
yet having superhuman senses does not mean he use them in the same way as DD. To be honest I don't remember 3 or more showings of "body reading".
not to mention super sight... not that it would matter anyway in a fight


True, but he shown to also be able to predict attacks prior to them happening. Hell in new avengers his senses on a number of occasions picked up danger before spidermans spidersenses.



Wolverine has always had super sight compared to normal humans.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
True, but he shown to also be able to predict attacks prior to them happening. Hell in new avengers his senses on a number of occasions picked up danger before spidermans spidersenses.



Wolverine has always had super sight compared to normal humans.

I don't doubt his senses being superhuman. I also believe that Wolverine being an animalistic character having lived years in the wilderness and stuff has also developed a sort of instict to warn him for potential danger. I just believe his senses are not utilized in battle like DD's. Wolverine doesn't need that anyways. He's near invulnerable and can damadge almost every opponenet. On the other hand DD has been trained to develop his whole fighting style around his senses in a way to be able to focus on an opponent totally. Reading vital signs, scanning his body with his radar, hearing muscle and organs tense, feeling nerve electric currents and air pressure around him... That's how he predicts his moves and finds week spots. Wolverine uses his senses mostly for environme scan and stuff. He's not trained to do what DD does with his senses just because he does not need to...

anyway that's a different discussion. on topic, if Matt can somehow block X's tp he should win this. if not X has the advantage

fair enough

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
fair enough

beer

Daredevil wins.

I'm trying to figure out where its stated that Mister X has actual telepathy though since he's not aware that he has a power himself or that hes even using a power. Hes able to read Wolverine's mind even though he has defenses against that type of intrusion.

Frankly more more I read up on him the more I become aware of the fact that Daredevil would be able to beat him without too much difficulty.

Mr X has no way of dealing with ricochet attacks and those are Daredevil's primary way of attacking with his clubs

Originally posted by SamZED
Ugh.. there's a thing called "context" people. Daredevil was fighting a mindcontrolled Wolverine who was fighting it the whole time, not to mention he didnt beat Logan. He accidentally impaled Logan on a sword and Logan willingly stopped fighting because it helped him break the mind control. Being impaled didnt even slow him down in the past. Saying that Daredevil is faster or a better fighter than Logan is just false. His radar is the only advantage.

And DD's ability to predict moves thanks to his radar and training does not cancel X's super power to actually lock on other people's moves. And the guy isnt a lowtier MA fighter either. He beat Taskmaster, Black Widow (who recently stalemated Elektra FYI since we're using the a>b>c logic here), stalemated Wolverine and Deadpool. That's something.

That said, even if DD takes it he'll spend a few months in hospital afterwards. i concur.mhmm

Originally posted by SasuOna

Frankly more more I read up on him the more I become aware of the fact that Daredevil would be able to beat him without too much difficulty.



I think you need to look up the word "Fact".

hmmm in Thunderbolts 142

Amadeus Cho got by his powers by ricocheting arrows around so he wouldn't be able to react to them and got caught in the leg.
Daredevil throws his billy clubs faster than that and actually is pretty good with hitting pressure points with them.

Originally posted by SasuOna
hmmm in Thunderbolts 142

Amadeus Cho got by his powers by ricocheting arrows around so he wouldn't be able to react to them and got caught in the leg.
Daredevil throws his billy clubs faster than that and actually is pretty good with hitting pressure points with them.
again misrepresenting what happened.


Cho's plan worked becuase his mind was working in simply mathmatical terms which Mister X did not understand. This is something DD is simply not capable of. Honestly if your going to bring something up, please put forth the correct context. Mister X got caught by a single arrow and dodged the rest, he also was fighting later that issue.


To bad he can't do what cho did.

Originally posted by SasuOna
I'm trying to figure out where its stated that Mister X has actual telepathy though since he's not aware that he has a power himself or that hes even using a power. Hes able to read Wolverine's mind even though he has defenses against that type of intrusion.

Frankly more more I read up on him the more I become aware of the fact that Daredevil would be able to beat him without too much difficulty.

Mr X has no way of dealing with ricochet attacks and those are Daredevil's primary way of attacking with his clubs



Originally posted by Juk3n
I think you need to look up the word "Fact".

Honestly Sas, can you at least attempt to get at least basic knowledge of the people your debating against. X is very aware of his powers, honestly some times the shit that you come up with is just........

You already contradicted yourself by saying that Mister X could read cho's mind but not understand the equations in his head? like that would matter, so he read cho's mind knew he was planning on attacking him with arrows but because he couldn't understand the advanced equations in his head? his peak human reflexes weren't fast enough to dodge arrows?okay

Mathematical equations don't magically change your intent. Cho threw a volly of arrows that ricocheted at him and he got tagged by one. The ricochet is explicitely cited as the reason he wasn't able to avoid them. Remember this is the same guy who according to you was blocking bullets because his reflexes were that good and not simply because he could read Black Widow's mind.

In either case his reactions still got blitz by an arrow thrown by amadeus cho who doesn't have feats of throwing things as fast as Daredevil and still couldn't read Cho's mind to tell that this is what he was planning.

Also your whole argument about Daredevil not doing advanced calculations when ricocheting his billy clubs based on Cho's feat is another fallacy. Your assuming something that is never shown is exclusive to one character but because character A has a method shown but character B doesn't have a method shown for the same technique it doesn't change the fact that they are using the same principles regardless.

Originally posted by SasuOna
You already contradicted yourself by saying that Mister X could read cho's mind but not understand the equations in his head?

How did I contradict my self? He could not understand cho mind, thats what happened, have you even read the issue?

Originally posted by SasuOna
like that would matter, so he read cho's mind knew he was planning on attacking him with arrows but because he couldn't understand the advanced equations in his head? his peak human reflexes weren't fast enough to dodge arrows?okay

He was caught off guard, it clearly evident in the issue. X could not understand what cho was doing and it confused him and cho got lucky hit in. Mister X still dodged numerous arrows before getting clipped.


Originally posted by SasuOna
Mathematical equations don't magically change your intent. Cho threw a volly of arrows that ricocheted at him and he got tagged by one. The ricochet is explicitely cited as the reason he wasn't able to avoid them.
No the reason given was he could not understand cho mind, please stop being so ignorant and read the issue before talking out your ass.


Originally posted by SasuOna
In either case his reactions still got blitz by an arrow thrown by amadeus cho who doesn't have feats of throwing things as fast as Daredevil and still couldn't read Cho's mind to tell that this is what he was planning.

But he can read DD mind so your entire point irrelevent.

He could read cho mind not understand it, dam man honestly please keep up.


Originally posted by SasuOna
Also your whole argument about Daredevil not doing advanced calculations when ricocheting his billy clubs based on Cho's feat is another fallacy. Your assuming something that is never shown is exclusive to one character but because character A has a method shown but character B doesn't have a method shown for the same technique it doesn't change the fact that they are using the same principles regardless.
But he not view the world like cho does in mathmetical theories. Your purposely beeing willfully ignorant simply becuase it fits your arguement.

please I love to se eyou provide evidence that DD views the world in mathmetical forumals like Cho. Please I love to see it.

Lol John has a new friend...

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Lol John has a new friend...
nope, I gunna block this moron. Most of the shit the comes out of his mouth is ignorant garbage.


I think that will be my final post in responses to him, he waste of my time. Unless he wants to battle zone DD vs Wolverine, I am not gunna waste my time with his garbage or if he actually provides evidence that DD views the world in Mathmatical formuals like Cho.

X could read Cho's mind, but it was all in equations so he couldn't interpret it, while "throw one or two billy clubs at pressure points," is the kind of thing he reads all the time.

And it had to be a chaotic and unpredictable enough situation that a hit was possible to begin with.

Originally posted by Q99
X could read Cho's mind, but it was all in equations so he couldn't interpret it, while "throw one or two billy clubs at pressure points," is the kind of thing he reads all the time.

And it had to be a chaotic and unpredictable enough situation that a hit was possible to begin with.
yup. Low end feat for Mister X reflex speed as well, but that can easily be chalked up to him being confused and startled.

Also as for DD body reading be able to counter Mister X?

others who posses body reading did not seem to be helpful at all.

Originally posted by Galan007
Mister X vs. Taskmaster:

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/3636/mrx1.th.jpg http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/4757/mrx2.th.jpg http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/5678/mrx3.th.jpg

I thought Cho was just perceiving things in numbers not actually seeing it numbers was what confused Mr. X. Daredevil is perceiving the world as a man with sight would w/out the color and very good clarity. He isn't thinking in terms of math equations that would throw off Mr. X. I mean if Cho is perceiving throwing an arrow as a complex equation based on forces mass and the speed of Mr. X rather than a visual model in his head that most people would have Mr. X isn't going to be able to read it and react with any reasonable speed because as intelligent as he is he still understands a throw is a throw and you kind of feel how you need to throw something for a desired effect rather than a math equation predicting all given variables and basing it on that than the model in your head.

Originally posted by Uriel005
I thought Cho was just perceiving things in numbers not actually seeing it numbers was what confused Mr. X. Daredevil is perceiving the world as a man with sight would w/out the color and very good clarity. He isn't thinking in terms of math equations that would throw off Mr. X. I mean if Cho is perceiving throwing an arrow as a complex equation based on forces mass and the speed of Mr. X rather than a visual model in his head that most people would have Mr. X isn't going to be able to read it and react with any reasonable speed because as intelligent as he is he still understands a throw is a throw and you kind of feel how you need to throw something for a desired effect rather than a math equation predicting all given variables and basing it on that than the model in your head.
cosigned.


Way a Cho views the world and attacks is much different then how a fighter would. He viewing everything in advanced mathmatical formulas. While fighters are simply doing it or viewing them selfs doing it.

The way Cho views the world was enough to hide the fact that hes planning on throwing arrows in a ricochet? no X would still know about that unless you want to make the argument that hes not that good of a telepath and gets thrown off by things like how people perceive the world.

If anything the mathematical equations would only hide the facts about the arrows trajectory. Mr X would still know that hes throwing arrows at him regardless.
So basically what it comes down to is without his powers hes not fast enough to dodge an arrow.


Daredevil is blind he actually has to use echolocation to see which is essentially allowing sound to paint a picture in his mind. If Mr. X gets confused by something like mathematical equations why would he understand the way Daredevil sees the world?

How does getting hit by an arrow once cancel all his previous speed/reflexes feats? He's caught multiple arrows with one hand in the past.

Especially since its Cho we're talking about, the guy's famous for pulling some crazy stuff to handle enemies he has no buiseness fighting.

Trust me, Cho would hit Dare Devil even easier. the guy is all about doing insane feats based on math.

Originally posted by SasuOna
The way Cho views the world was enough to hide the fact that hes planning on throwing arrows in a ricochet? no X would still know about that unless you want to make the argument that hes not that good of a telepath and gets thrown off by things like how people perceive the world.

If anything the mathematical equations would only hide the facts about the arrows trajectory. Mr X would still know that hes throwing arrows at him regardless.
So basically what it comes down to is without his powers hes not fast enough to dodge an arrow.


Daredevil is blind he actually has to use echolocation to see which is essentially allowing sound to paint a picture in his mind. If Mr. X gets confused by something like mathematical equations why would he understand the way Daredevil sees the world?

Did you even bother to read the issue or did you just look at the pretty pictures? X knew the arrows were ricocheting but he couldn't understand the "zillions of calculations." Even then he wasn't hit because he was too slow, he was hit because Cho's math guaranteed he would be, it wasn't a random, hope for the best contingency, Cho calculated the trajectory and ricochet path of every single arrow. It was a mathematical impossibility for X to avoid every arrow... that was the whole point.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Also as for DD body reading be able to counter Mister X?

others who posses body reading did not seem to be helpful at all.



And who would that be Taskmaster by the scans that you posted? Yeah because Tasky has the hyper senses and radar of Daredevil.

Fail again just like your Logan comparison attempt for DD.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
And who would that be Taskmaster by the scans that you posted? Yeah because Tasky has the hyper senses and radar of Daredevil.

Fail again just like your Logan comparison attempt for DD.

Taskmaster's move reading ability trumps DD's radar and hyper senses, just like Echo's did.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Did you even bother to read the issue or did you just look at the pretty pictures? X knew the arrows were ricocheting but he couldn't understand the "zillions of calculations." Even then he wasn't hit because he was too slow, he was hit because Cho's math guaranteed he would be, it wasn't a random, hope for the best contingency, Cho calculated the trajectory and ricochet path of every single arrow. It was a mathematical impossibility for X to avoid every arrow... that was the whole point.

Your whole rational makes no sense. This is the MU where someone can block 100 bullets fired at them. The fact that you think Cho ricocheting a volley of arrows makes it statistically impossible for him to dodge all of them is laughable. Either he doesn't have the speed to dodge something thrown by Cho or his powers compensate for him and allow him to perform all of his high end feats.

Cho's intent was to throw the arrows at Mr X he picked up on that but didn't understand the ricochet patterns Cho was coming up with. At that point hes relying on his own speed to dodge arrows. The fact that he got tagged by something moving a lot slower than the casual ricochet's from Daredevil shows hes pretty unimpressive without his powers.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Taskmaster's move reading ability trumps DD's radar and hyper senses, just like Echo's did.
The only time Daredevil fought Echo he was hardly fighting her seriously as you would note he could tell it was Maya as soon as the fight began.
You using that as a basis to say shes trumping his senses is hilarious. Also DD beat Taskmaster but of course were going to forget all about that instance since Echo who has comparable powers pushed a non serious DD to the edge right?
Non factor

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Taskmaster's move reading ability trumps DD's radar and hyper senses, just like Echo's did.

Yeah Taskmaster ability is so good Daredevil got the better of him. More like Taskmaster chumps ability.

Originally posted by SasuOna
Your whole rational makes no sense. This is the MU where someone can block 100 bullets fired at them. The fact that you think Cho ricocheting a volley of arrows makes it statistically impossible for him to dodge all of them is laughable. Either he doesn't have the speed to dodge something thrown by Cho or his powers compensate for him and allow him to perform all of his high end feats.

Cho's intent was to throw the arrows at Mr X he picked up on that but didn't understand the ricochet patterns Cho was coming up with. At that point hes relying on his own speed to dodge arrows. The fact that he got tagged by something moving a lot slower than the casual ricochet's from Daredevil shows hes pretty unimpressive without his powers.


The only time Daredevil fought Echo he was hardly fighting her seriously as you would note he could tell it was Maya as soon as the fight began.
You using that as a basis to say shes trumping his senses is hilarious. Also DD beat Taskmaster but of course were going to forget all about that instance since Echo who has comparable powers pushed a non serious DD to the edge right?
Non factor

That was the whole point of Cho's attack champ'. He calculated the odds and made sure the arrows were falling, and ricocheting at the perfect angles with the perfect timing so that it would be impossible for anyone to dodge them all. And it was.

Echo beat Matt the first time they fought and he wasn't aware who she was then. He is only alive now because she didn't want to kill him in front of children and left. The only way he was able to contend with her in a fight was by drawing her into a dark room where she couldn't use her abilities and being deaf was completely helpless.

Everyone beats Taskmaster, he has no drive or ambition as a fighter, he won't work for a win, if things get touch he starts looking for an exit. That sad there is a HUGE difference between edging out Taskmaster in a fight and completely owning him like X did.

Right. Accept DD in that very same fight did not want to hurt her. He stated that himself since he knew who she was and she didn't. He even stated he needs to close the distance to try and get her to read his lips.


Matt had fallen for her even before the fight. Context and story is important since you failed to state DD wasn't trying to hurt her to and when he finally did fight back and hurt her. DD was more worried for her safety and let his guard down and she took advantage of that. Since she thought DD killed her father.

Look what happened to Taskmaster when DD doesn't love ya.......LOL.

Wrong.


Look at the first page of there fight after she "sneak" attacked Matt who was just constantly thinking of his great day with Maya. He states Maya what are you doing here or to that affect.

Also states same scent and heart pattern.....its her.