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What would happen if X-man teams up with Vulcan and unleash a siege to the floating city of Asgard : O ???? Consider the following scenarios:

1st scenario: X-man and Vulcan vs Asgard (no Thor and no Odin, but everyone else is there e.g. Balder, Warriors Three, Lady Syf)

2nd scenario: X-man and Vulcan vs Asgard WITH Thor

3rd scenario: X-man and Vulcan vs Asgard WITH Thor and Odin around


4TH SCENARIO: Shaman X-man and Deadly Genesis Vulcan(bonded with Darwin) vs ASGARD with Thor, Odin AND Beta Ray Bill!!



Discuss


btw this is "floating city" Asgard, not the one with the rainbow road and all of that.

they lose all scenarios with odin in them. in the 2nd scenario, they have good chances. they'd stomp asgard in the first 1.

You didnt mention loki anywhere, is he in it?

Lets say Loki is around in scenario number 4, although i can't edit the post damn.

Hmm so you think Odin stomps in scenario number 4?? I think that scenario is pretty interesting considering we have seen Vulcan handling teams of X-Men as well as the Imperial Guard, and X-Man handling the Dark Avengers by himself as well, opinions??

Originally posted by JuanJohnboy
Lets say Loki is around in scenario number 4, although i can't edit the post damn.

Hmm so you think Odin stomps in scenario number 4?? I think that scenario is pretty interesting considering we have seen Vulcan handling teams of X-Men as well as the Imperial Guard, and X-Man handling the Dark Avengers by himself as well, opinions?? but odin could wipe those people out with a fart. With darwin's power Vulcan would survive Odin, of course, but he could be easily dealt with through BFR. SNG is above regular vulcan but still nowhere near Odin.

I'd go with Team 1. Omega level mutants are not to be trifled with. X-man's respect thread sold me.

^Read the OP.

The only scenario the Team has the possibility of winning is the first one. It also depends on the level the Asgardian's are portrayed at. And if beings like Loki and Enchantress are excluded along with powerful artifacts like the Destroyer Armor, the Norn Stones etc.

enchantress wouldntmake much of a difference. loki might but I think he'd still be defeated

Enchantress is incredibly powerful. The only reason I don't outright say she beats Vulcan's shit in is because of that scene where he was able to absorb Magus' power as according to him magic is simply another form of energy. I think that entire issue was stupid including Magus repowering himself by absorbing the power of that other Mage but whatever. I'm hoping that was just an isolated scene.

they're both dead so I dont see much room for speculation for a while. it was still pretty clear. dont think she would defeat him in physical confrontation if he couldn't eat her powers either.

Originally posted by 753
they're both dead so I dont see much room for speculation for a while. it was still pretty clear. dont think she would defeat him in physical confrontation if he couldn't eat her powers either.

Yes she would. She'd turn him into a f*cking tree and be on her way.

Nah I dont see it.

What defense has Vulcan shown against high end transmutation?

She can also one shot him with a powerful killing curse.

They lose all with Odin.But win the others.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
What defense has Vulcan shown against high end transmutation?

She can also one shot him with a powerful killing curse. he resisted BB's transformative electron manipulation for a good while and rebuilt himself after being badly damaged by it. she's not durable enough to tank what he can dish out and the strategies you sugested for her aren't that common either. He also has a measure of superspeed. she can get wins but wouldnt take a majority IMO

If we count the fact that he can absorb and manipulate magical energy on the level adam was using, she'd be pretty hopeless.

Originally posted by 753
he resisted BB's transformative electron manipulation for a good while and rebuilt himself after being badly damaged by it.

As far as I know, Black Bolt was stated to be using electron manipulation, which is basically his power set. Vulcan was able to match that with his energy manipulation. How that transmits to resisting Enchantresses matter manipulation I do not know. Yea he rebuilt himself. She turns him into a tree.

Originally posted by 753
and the strategies you sugested for her aren't that common either.

She transmuted Thor and Balder into half trees, she's transmuted some random Asgardian into a tree. IIRC, right before the Avenger's/Defender's war, Amora transmuted the Black Knight, and the spell was so powerful that Classic Doctor Strange awas not able to change him back. At least for a while. If I wanted to get really exotic, I could simply argue she pulls out his soul. IIRC, she did that in New X-men. She could also simply paralyze him. Or turn him into pure light. Albeit she did that to Dazzler. Heck, Amora once turned back time in the Marvel reality to undo the last few days.

Originally posted by 753
she's not durable enough to tank what he can dish out

She recently withstood what Hela was dishing. Besides she's created barriers before.

Originally posted by 753
He also has a measure of superspeed. she can get wins but wouldnt take a majority IMO

When did he show super speed? I know he can fly at faster than light speeds but I've never seen him utilize it in combat. Amora can teleport.

Originally posted by 753
If we count the fact that he can absorb and manipulate magical energy on the level adam was using, she'd be pretty hopeless.

Even if you include his mystical absorption, I can just argue she blasts him with a spell his not powerful enough to stop ala Havok.

Warlock's most powerful feat is transmuting that dead planet. One shot killing the Hulk and later on Nightmare I believe pisses on that.

The way she recently performed against the amped Hela pisses on everything I've seen Vulcan do.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

Warlock's most powerful feat is transmuting that dead planet. One shot killing the Hulk and later on Nightmare I believe pisses on that.

The way she recently performed against the amped Hela pisses on everything I've seen Vulcan do.

IMHO, with PIS and CIS off, lots of Herald level and lower beings should be able to crush the Hulk.

Who hasn't killed Nightmare?

The aftermath of the Vulcan/Black Bolt throw down did more damage than the combined assault of the cosmics (Galactus, Love, Hate, Stranger, Eon, Ziran, other Celestial, Kronos, Master Order and Lord Chaos) vs Thanos with the IG. I consider that more impressive than holding your own vs an amped Hela.

Originally posted by zopzop
IMHO, with PIS and CIS off, lots of Herald level and lower beings should be able to crush the Hulk.

Who hasn't killed Nightmare?

The aftermath of the Vulcan/Black Bolt throw down did more damage than the combined assault of the cosmics (Galactus, Love, Hate, Stranger, Eon, Ziran, other Celestial, Kronos, Master Order and Lord Chaos) vs Thanos with the IG. I consider that more impressive than holding your own vs an amped Hela.

Well, you're wrong.

A lot of beings as far as I know.



It was the bomb that created that damage.

I agree with Rage. The duo wins.

The shockwaves of the Vulcan/BB alone would destroy Asgard, I mean, it tore a huge hole in space!

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Well, you're wrong.

Nah the writers just need to get creative with use of powers and he's as good as dead.







Really? Good, I saw that scan and was like WTF? I just found it hard to believe that they were wielding that kind of power.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
The shockwaves of the Vulcan/BB alone would destroy Asgard, I mean, it tore a huge hole in space!

Supposedly they didn't cause the damage, a weapon did.

His being sarcastic or just joking.

Course, he might just be acting stupid cause his bored.

Originally posted by zopzop
Nah the writers just need to get creative with use of powers and he's as good as dead.



Really? Good, I saw that scan and was like WTF? I just found it hard to believe that they were wielding that kind of power.

You're entitled to your opinion.

Really. You should see Thor's higher end feats. Multiversal level.

Originally posted by zopzop
Supposedly they didn't cause the damage, a weapon did. You believe Rage?

Come on brochacho, I'm on your side!

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
His being sarcastic or just joking.

Course, he might just be acting stupid cause his bored. You must be pretty bored bro!


Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
You should see Thor's higher end feats. Multiversal level.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
You believe Rage?

Come on brochacho, I'm on your side!

Thanks?

But yes I believe him, all I saw was a scan or two I don't have the issue. Why would he lie?

Yea, I'm lying. Black Bolt's scream was powerful enough to destroy the Universe and Vulcan being who he is, absorbed the blast, reducing the radius to a few parsecs.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
You must be pretty bored bro!

I actually am brosef.

I'm putting off doing my work.

Thor/Mjolnir actually have Multiversal level feats.

Originally posted by zopzop
Why would he lie? I agree. Why would he?
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Yea, I'm lying. Black Bolt's scream was powerful enough to destroy the Universe and Vulcan being who he is, absorbed the blast, reducing the radius to a few parsecs.

There you have it.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I actually am brosef.

I'm putting off doing my work.

Thor/Mjolnir actually have Multiversal level feats. Ah bro bro. You gotta do your browork you no what I am saying?

Nothing ringing any bells so far. I'm intrigued.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
I agree. Why would he?

There you have it.

Ah bro bro. You gotta do your browork you no what I am saying?

I'm too lazy. Know what I mean brah? You feel me?

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Nothing ringing any bells so far. I'm intrigued.

1. An infinite number of dimensions/universes were falling apart as the dimensional barriers were warped away by reality manipulation I believe. The Multiverse was collapsing. Eternity was dying. Thor rallied the fellow Thor Corps, and combined their energies into a huge God Blast that fortified the barriers, stopping -or at least slowing down- the collapse until the barriers were warped back. Thor deserves more credit than any of the other members for that feat if I'm remembering the scene correctly.

2. Masterson Thor and Dargo Ktor struck each other with a force that wasn't seen since the Big Bang. The shockwave rippled through various planes of reality. The Tomorrow Man collected the left over energy produced by that shock-wave and was going to use the power to collapse an infinite amount of time lines into a single one that he ruled over or something similar.

3. Thor's World Engine feat would count as Multiversal now I guess.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Yea, I'm lying. Black Bolt's scream was powerful enough to destroy the Universe and Vulcan being who he is, absorbed the blast, reducing the radius to a few parsecs.



I actually am brosef.

I'm putting off doing my work.

Thor/Mjolnir actually have Multiversal level feats. What multiversal feats does he have?I'm not saying he doesn't as some heralds have some stupidly ridiculous feats.I'm just curious.

Listed above.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I'm too lazy. Know what I mean brah? You feel me?



1. An infinite number of dimensions/universes were falling apart as the dimensional barriers were warped away by reality manipulation I believe. The Multiverse was collapsing. Eternity was dying. Thor rallied the fellow Thor Corps, and combined their energies into a huge God Blast that fortified the barriers, stopping -or at least slowing down- the collapse until the barriers were warped back. Thor deserves more credit than any of the other members for that feat if I'm remembering the scene correctly.

2. Masterson Thor and Dargo Ktor struck each other with a force that wasn't seen since the Big Bang. The shockwave rippled through various planes of reality. The Tomorrow Man collected the left over energy produced by that shock-wave and was going to use the power to collapse an infinite amount of time lines into a single one that he ruled over or something similar.

3. Thor's World Engine feat would count as Multiversal now I guess. That was more of a chain reaction thing as it sounds

Ummmm....Ok.Like I said ridiculously stupid.

World Engine?

Originally posted by Black bolt z
That was more of a chain reaction thing as it sounds

Ummmm....Ok.Like I said ridiculously stupid.

World Engine?

Which one? The first one? From what I recall, it didn't start with one Universe and go on from there. It was countless dimensions just collapsing on each other due to Demonstaff's warping. It was Thor Corps #4 if anyone wishes to confirm this.

Thor overpowered the World Tree and the World Engine.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I'm too lazy. Know what I mean brah? You feel me?



1. An infinite number of dimensions/universes were falling apart as the dimensional barriers were warped away by reality manipulation I believe. The Multiverse was collapsing. Eternity was dying. Thor rallied the fellow Thor Corps, and combined their energies into a huge God Blast that fortified the barriers, stopping -or at least slowing down- the collapse until the barriers were warped back. Thor deserves more credit than any of the other members for that feat if I'm remembering the scene correctly.

2. Masterson Thor and Dargo Ktor struck each other with a force that wasn't seen since the Big Bang. The shockwave rippled through various planes of reality. The Tomorrow Man collected the left over energy produced by that shock-wave and was going to use the power to collapse an infinite amount of time lines into a single one that he ruled over or something similar.

3. Thor's World Engine feat would count as Multiversal now I guess. I'm just going to accept all these as I'm too lazy to go DL the issues... I mean, go out and buy the issues like everyone does.

None of those sound very multiversal though to me even with your descriptions.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
I'm just going to accept all these as I'm too lazy to go DL the issues... I mean, go out and buy the issues like everyone does.

None of those sound very multiversal though to me even with your descriptions.

Gimme a sec. I'll see if I have the scans handy.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Gimme a sec. I'll see if I have the scans handy. Sounds like you're about to go *buy* some comics.

I have like every notable feat for Thor saved across 3 photobucket accounts. Back in the day I'd just log in to HC and copy/paste shit from my respect thread. Now it's down, so I have to search through all those scans. I mean comics.

Well, I'm going to go do something productive. I'd say I'd see your scans (that you scanned yourself obviously), but I probably won't.

Someone better repost them is all I'm saying.

Masterson Thor and Dargo Ktor collide hammers:
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ShatterCosmos1.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ShatterCosmos2.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ShatterCosmos3.jpg

I can't find the scene where the Tomorrow Man describes what his going to do with the power or the Multiversal God Blast. I did post the God Blast in the Character Ownage thread a while back.

I am possibly the biggest X-Man fanboy on this site. And I honestly do not see the pair take on Asgard under scenario one. Much less 2, 3, and so on.

Even without Thor, and Odin. You have to factor in Beta Ray Bill, Loki, and the entire Asgardian race, plus its mystic weapons/items. Thats too many, too good, and too much weapons to overcome by any pair of Top Tier characters.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
As far as I know, Black Bolt was stated to be using electron manipulation, which is basically his power set. Vulcan was able to match that with his energy manipulation. How that transmits to resisting Enchantresses matter manipulation I do not know. Yea he rebuilt himself. She turns him into a tree. Electron manipulation is matter manipualtin and he both resisted and repaired himself afterwards. Obviously her transmutation powers are of a diffetrent nature as they are magic.

still not that frequent IMO, but I'll concede she may atempt them. Question is whether or not any energy based attack she throws at him will work.

Barriers could be absorbed or dispelled, saying she is more durable than what hella can dish out at her max is nonsense. I'd say his maximum power output is still above her durabilty.

pretty good reaction feats during his fights and decent navigation while flying. Definitely faster than baseline human.



That I doubt.

He easily defeated the Magus's by eating his power and he was easily much more powerfull than she is. To prove she can reach the level of power Havok used to overload him, you'd have to show a display of power from her that trumps what a sundipped havok can do and seen as he only has feats against vulcan that's impossible to do. So far, no other energy manipulator has got the best of him.

I disagree and this sounds an awful lot like the thanos didnt get killed by odin argument.

Originally posted by 753
Electron manipulation is matter manipualtin

When has Black Bolt's power been described as matter manipulation? That's something you'd get from a character like Sersi. He has the ability to manipulate ambient electrons around him which gives him his ability to amp, fly etc. It's the reason his voice is so destructive. This ability also gives him the power to manipulate matter and energy.

His power set in of itself is not considered matter manipulation by writers. At least not in the sense we're talking about. Every time an opponent withstands a blast of his energy, I don't consider that a feat of resisting matter manipulation.

Originally posted by 753
and he both resisted and repaired himself afterwards. Obviously her transmutation powers are of a diffetrent nature as they are magic.

He trumped Black Bolt's powers with his own energy manipulation. Seriously, all they were did was toss energy at each other. Concession accepted.

Originally posted by 753
still not that frequent IMO, but I'll concede she may atempt them. Question is whether or not any energy based attack she throws at him will work.

Lulz.

All Warlock did was throw energy that happened to be mystical at Vulcan as far as I recall. That would be different than tossing a spell I'd wager. And Enchantress isn't an energy being in the sense Warlock was in that issue. I'm guessing it's because his a quantum magician or whatever that means.

Originally posted by 753
Barriers could be absorbed or dispelled, saying she is more durable than what hella can dish out at her max is nonsense. I'd say his maximum power output is still above her durabilty.

And could just as easily be put back up. Enchantress withstood attacks from a raging Hela equipped with the Twilight Sword. That right there is more power than Vulcan could even hope for in his wet dreams.

Then it's pretty great that what you say is not in of itself evidence.

Originally posted by 753
pretty good reaction feats during his fights and decent navigation while flying. Definitely faster than baseline human.

I don't care if his faster than baseline human. Speed isn't going to be a factor in this fight. Dodging energy attacks is about as far as speed will go in such a fight.

Originally posted by 753
He easily defeated the Magus's by eating his power and he was easily much more powerfull than she is.

Prove it. His greatest feat is transmuting a planet sized object. Impressive. Transmuting Thor is more impressive.

Originally posted by 753
To prove she can reach the level of power Havok used to overload him, you'd have to show a display of power from her that trumps what a sundipped havok can do and seen as he only has feats against vulcan that's impossible to do. So far, no other energy manipulator has got the best of him.

Havok was dipped into a f*cking star. That's about it. With your line of thinking you could argue that he was more powerful than Odin because we don't know his limitations. Silly logic is silly. Amora has created spells to ward off the effects of the World Tree. Crazy amount of power.

Originally posted by 753
I disagree and this sounds an awful lot like the thanos didnt get killed by odin argument.

Oh yea, why? Lulz. Enchantress actually stood her ground for a bit, and IIRC, temporarily knocked Hela out with the teleportation spell.

I can't edit my first post, but what I meant is that only "good" Asgard people are available to fight (that means no Enchantress, no Executioner and no weapons/armors available (no Norn Stones, no Destroyer Armor) also only people from the realm/city of Asgard, no Hel and no frost giants.

Lets say Loki will be an exception and will be around in scenario number 4.


Discuss

It seems like you really want the X-team to win.

Originally posted by Silent Master
It seems like you really want the X-team to win.

I think gods from other realms and Destroyer Armors are just too much. Besides the Norn Stones apparently give the user the ability to make anything he wants, i guess using them on Gods will simply destroy both of the mutants with a fart, even in scenario number 4. Weapons can be available, but only swords, axes, magical hammers and all of that i meant no ubber-artifacts

Well, while it's true that Skurge is from Jotunheim, the Enchantress is from Asgard, so she doesn't fall under "gods from other realms".

Really trying to give the mutant duo a fighting chance.

I'm guessing no Twilight Sword either.

They still don't get pass scenario 1.

Edit: I just noticed it isn't even Shaman X-men in the first 3 rounds.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
When has Black Bolt's power been described as matter manipulation? That's something you'd get from a character like Sersi. He has the ability to manipulate ambient electrons around him which gives him his ability to amp, fly etc. It's the reason his voice is so destructive. This ability also gives him the power to manipulate matter and energy.

His power set in of itself is not considered matter manipulation by writers. At least not in the sense we're talking about. Every time an opponent withstands a blast of his energy, I don't consider that a feat of resisting matter manipulation.
controlling electrons is manipulating matter. when he makes electrons in people's bodies collide that is matter manipulation

Well i conceded nothing and he repaired himself after his own mass had been screwed by BB's power

yes exaclty that. he operated on a more impressive scale as he controlled that quanta of energy that made magic up. a spell would just be magical energy.

meh you think too much of the norse gods.

lulz

and no there is nothing to prove, GoG made it clear he was a trans level being while she is a mid, maybe a high herald. nova prime was a bug compare to him, it would have taken a cosmic cube blast to take him out while weakened so he didn't conquer a crap load of realities (which he did in divergent timelines), his actions warped the timeline itself rewriting the past, he pulled an alternate universe to stabilize the fault that would have ripped the multiverse apart and controlled magic at its most fundamental level. sure, it was a cheap win that vulcan got against him thanks to the nature of their powers and Magus could likely take him down through indirect means or if he was aware of vulcan's powers, but it still happened and shows how much juice he can handle.

so what? SM sundips into a star and comes out far more powerfull than your post would imply.

If you want to claim she is stronger than sundipped havok you'd have to compare thei levels and the only feat he has is taking vulcan down. the odin example has no bearing on this because we know how far above the herald class he is and that he'd crush vulcan with even more ease, but amora isn't above the herald class.

thanos stood his ground for a bit too. the BFR was a good showing for her and it might work on vulcan, but it might not. as far as his own exotic attacks go, shutting her synapses - which as I understand asgardians have - down would help.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Really trying to give the mutant duo a fighting chance.

I'm guessing no Twilight Sword either.

They still don't get pass scenario 1.

Edit: I just noticed it isn't even Shaman X-men in the first 3 rounds.

cask of eternal winter ftw