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Let's say that a Borg cube was able to use their temporal warp technology and travel to a galaxy long ago and far far away. They encounter a fully manned and operational Death Star. And just for shits and giggles Vader and the Emperor are both on board. Who wins? My money is on the Borg.

Borg stomp.

Inb4close

Borg shitstomp

Well it realy is just a matter of power.

IT was shown on Voyager that a blast powerfull enought to take outa planet can take out a few cubes.

And even if its only a laser. That can be as powerful as how much energy you can pump into it.

And would borg sheilds work against it if they haven't assimilated andy SW tech?

Be fun to see how the Borg would handle Vader,and the Emps Force manipulation.

The Death Star lazer may be powerful, but it's Achillies heel is that it's really only effective if the target is directly in front of it. As far as force powers go the force lightning would only be good for one or two drones. Same with the light saber. Vader and the Emperor could stand their ground for a little while, with Vader doing most of the work himself, because at the end of the day he's just a tool for the Emperor, but eventually he would succumb to fatigue, like he did with Luke in "Jedi". The coup de tat would be when Vader is over whelmed and assimilated by the drones. Just the idea of a Vader Drone makes me all tingly inside.

Death Star lol stomps.

Does the Death Star have a large compliment of Tie Fighters n'stuff? If it does, then, the Death Star wins.


If not, then the Borg Cube very slowly maneuvers, at all times, outside of the superlaser and the other guns.

As has been shown in otherthreads, the Star Wars weapons have a much shorter range than the Star Trek ones. The Borg Cube can sit, quite comfortably outside of all fire from the Death Star, and scan the Death Star for weaknesses. Then teleport torpedoes inside the ship's weak spots.


The Tie Fighters will change this, though, IMO. They should quickly be able to destroy, by swarming, one Borg cube before it adapts.

LOL it would be like fighting the Phallanx. Once the Borg teleport inside the Deathstar they will be a virus that cannot be stopped.

And the Deathstar laser LO fricken L. An easy target for their sensors to pick up.

Originally posted by the ninjak
LOL it would be like fighting the Phallanx. Once the Borg teleport inside the Deathstar they will be a virus that cannot be stopped.

That's not really how they operate.

Borg will only start assimilating once the DS's defenses are completely down.

They never do anything piecemeal.

The Tie fighters laser based weapons would be useless against a Borg cube. In TNG when the Enterprise was mind controlled and duped into fighting a war for another race Commander Riker and Captain Picard both scoffed at how inferior laser technology was in comparison the the Enterprise's phasers and photon torpedoes. The Borg cube would easily wipe out any shield generators that the Empire would have on any neighboring planets or moons and either blast the Death Star into oblivion with its superior firepower or simply slice and dice it with it's cutting beam.

I recall in Battlefront II the narrator speaking how they should have jettisoned the entire Detention Block in to space. Wherever the Borg teleport (assuming they can do so through the Death Star's "magnetic field" or w/e, they get sucked in to space or blown apart by the blasters that every crewman carries. Nai proved in the SW vs. ST thread how Star Wars "laser" weapons are really a particle-based plasma weapon, and how the Borg have no such shielding for those.

Am I the only one who thinks that the range argument is kind of bullshit regardless? They're in space; it's not as if they have to worry about bullet drop and the Coriolis affect or anything. One could argue that the laser would simply "fizzle out", but, the damn thing moves at like 50,000 kilometers a second, and it's not even an actual laser.

Borg stomp here...

there are at least a gazillion drones which far outweigh the tie fighters

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Am I the only one who thinks that the range argument is kind of bullshit regardless? They're in space; it's not as if they have to worry about bullet drop and the Coriolis affect or anything. One could argue that the laser would simply "fizzle out", but, the damn thing moves at like 50,000 kilometers a second, and it's not even an actual laser.

It's not a bullshit argument.


The laser canon fire has a clearly visible range. The "shots" completely disappear after a certain distance.

On top of that, if the lasers were light based, anyway, their energy would dissipate per unit traveled by a power of 2. (Highschool physics).

But it would appear that the technology from Star Wars has advanced enough to keep the "light" together almost completely until a certain distance.

And, yes, the "bullet drop" effect is still there as light is still attracted by gravity. teehee WEEEEEE! ( )

But, fact is, the laser canon fire from Star Wars has an effective range. Star Trek does as well. The range is much much farther for Star Trek. Borg cubes are no exception.

Originally posted by dadudemon
It's not a bullshit argument.


The laser canon fire has a clearly visible range. The "shots" completely disappear after a certain distance.

On top of that, if the lasers were light based, anyway, their energy would dissipate per unit traveled by a power of 2. (Highschool physics).

But it would appear that the technology from Star Wars has advanced enough to keep the "light" together almost completely until a certain distance.

And, yes, the "bullet drop" effect is still there as light is still attracted by gravity. teehee WEEEEEE! ( )

But, fact is, the laser canon fire from Star Wars has an effective range. Star Trek does as well. The range is much much farther for Star Trek. Borg cubes are no exception. Star Wars "lasers" aren't light, as Borbarad kept arguing.

Yeah. Like I said, they're not actual lasers. It's a misnomer.

Vader being assimilated as a Borg would be a cool image.

Would make sense, considering the Galaxy's Guns range is: The span of the Galaxy.

Originally posted by dadudemon
It's not a bullshit argument.


The laser canon fire has a clearly visible range. The "shots" completely disappear after a certain distance.

On top of that, if the lasers were light based, anyway, their energy would dissipate per unit traveled by a power of 2. (Highschool physics).

But it would appear that the technology from Star Wars has advanced enough to keep the "light" together almost completely until a certain distance.

And, yes, the "bullet drop" effect is still there as light is still attracted by gravity. teehee WEEEEEE! ( )

But, fact is, the laser canon fire from Star Wars has an effective range. Star Trek does as well. The range is much much farther for Star Trek. Borg cubes are no exception.

I don't really recall seeing a lot of "Long Range" fighting going on in the ST shows,and Movies I have ever watched/

Most of those ship battles seemed to get nose to nose with each other.

http://www.electricferret.com/fights/darkstars.htm

Is the link to something funny? I might read it if it's funny, otherwise, too much text.

It is not.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Star Wars "lasers" aren't light, as Borbarad kept arguing.

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Yeah. Like I said, they're not actual lasers. It's a misnomer.

How does that change anything in my post, though? They shots still disappear into nothing. They are still subject to gravity. Everything I stated still remains.



Originally posted by Flyattractor
I don't really recall seeing a lot of "Long Range" fighting going on in the ST shows,and Movies I have ever watched/

Most of those ship battles seemed to get nose to nose with each other.

You should watch more of the TV shows, then, eh? You, personally, not having seen it does not make stop being an attribute, agreed?

Originally posted by dadudemon
How does that change anything in my post, though? They shots still disappear into nothing. They are still subject to gravity. Everything I stated still remains. Um, it's related because you said this:

Originally posted by dadudemon
On top of that, if the lasers were light based, anyway, their energy would dissipate per unit traveled by a power of 2. (Highschool physics).

But it would appear that the technology from Star Wars has advanced enough to keep the "light" together almost completely until a certain distance.

And, yes, the "bullet drop" effect is still there as light is still attracted by gravity. teehee WEEEEEE! ( )




And you see, I followed up with this:

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Star Wars "lasers" aren't light, as Borbarad kept arguing.



So as you may have surmised, you called Star Wars lasers "light" one, two... three times. When they in fact, are... not. As I said. So as you may have surmised further, much needed changed in your post.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Um, it's related because you said this:





And you see, I followed up with this:





So as you may have surmised, you called Star Wars lasers "light" one, two... three times. When they in fact, are... not. As I said. So as you may have surmised further, much needed changed in your post.

But, you see, that changes nothing because of this:

Originally posted by dadudemon
How does that change anything in my post, though? They shots still disappear into nothing. They are still subject to gravity. Everything I stated still remains.


Saying it is not light makes all my points even more valid. Specifically: they dissipate (they do, and in a manner that is dramatic) and they are attracted by gravity. Since they travel even slower than a laser, and they are made of "particles", that makes my point about gravity even more valid. I did not think I would have to explain something that obvious, though. I am annoyed that I had to.


Please bring something new to the discussion instead of talking in circles and missing my points.

Originally posted by dadudemon
But, you see, that changes nothing because of this:




Saying it is not light makes all my points even more valid. Specifically: they dissipate (they do, and in a manner that is dramatic) and they are attracted by gravity. Since they travel even slower than a laser, and they are made of "particles", that makes my point about gravity even more valid. I did not think I would have to explain something that obvious, though. I am annoyed that I had to.


Please bring something new to the discussion instead of talking in circles and missing my points. facepalm Jesus...

I was correcting your point about them being made of light, nothing more. Do you understand that?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
facepalm Jesus...

I was correcting your point about them being made of light, nothing more. Do you understand that?

And I just corrected your correction because no correction was required.

Jesus...facepalm

...

I've never spoken to a retarded monkey before. Going to cross that off my list right now.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
...

I've never spoken to a retarded monkey before. Going to cross that off my list right now.

You were talking to yourself?


See, I can make grade-school jokes, too.

Now back on topic.

If this debate gets any more classy the thread might self-destruct. he

euro

Kaboom.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
If this debate gets any more classy the thread might self-destruct. he

i think it has already..

the borg are way too much for a death star

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
i think it has already..

the borg are way too much for a death star Totally.

Boosh! And or Ka-Kow.

The Borg Cube would win... they Borg would need only to release an assimilation virus within the vicinity of the Deathstar and it would become part of the collective. Next!

Originally posted by mardook
Next!

The Death Star Vs Remo Williams?

Originally posted by mardook
The Borg Cube would win... they Borg would need only to release an assimilation virus within the vicinity of the Deathstar and it would become part of the collective. Next!

The Death Star would blow it up before the Cube could get in the range to do that.

HA, I WIN!

Death Cube it shall be.

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
The Death Star would blow it up before the Cube could get in the range to do that.

HA, I WIN!

The Borg Cube would come at an angle where the firing face of the Death Star would be away from it to achieve this. The Death Star takes forever to turn on a revolution.

What exactly did you win?!

The Death Star would make sure it's at the proper angle to prevent that from happening before the battle even begins.

gg

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
The Death Star would make sure it's at the proper angle to prevent that from happening before the battle even begins.

gg

Simple answer... time travel. The Borg would travel to a time period before the Empire exists. Game Over!

Borg sends out a communication to the Death Star

We are the Borg, you will be assimilated, resistance is futile

Sidious replies back

Your arrogance blinds you

Death Star unleashes its main weapon, Borg shields absorbs but ship takes heavy damage to to immense power of the blast

Sidious and Vader then warp over to the Borg Cube as the Borg open fire on Death Star. Death Star is destroyed.

Sidious then tells Vader to wipe them out all of them

Vader goes medieval on Borg arse

Sidious meets the Borg Queen

foolish queen you are young and naive

only now, at the end, do you understand

sidious fries borg queen

vader then sets auto destruct on borg cube, they leave on tranports and get drunk on jawa juice

The hypothetical day a Borg cube can withstand a planet-disintegrating laser is the make-believe day that imaginary Hell freezes over.

u know? i put up this same match years ago and it was closed off and i was told to keep it star wars. so i read about it on comic book universe battles. (cbub)

its fun to read about this battle on cbub.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
The hypothetical day a Borg cube can withstand a planet-disintegrating laser is the make-believe day that imaginary Hell freezes over.

The hypothetical day the Deathstar can target and hit a ship traveling at warp-speeds is the make-believe day that imaginary Santa Claus comes to town.

Ho-Ho-Ho.

So... Christmas?

Yeah Christmas happens every years. I guess that means every Dec. 24 a Death Star targets and destroys a Borg Cube.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Yeah Christmas happens every years. I guess that means every Dec. 24 a Death Star targets and destroys a Borg Cube.

Christmas is December 25th, jack-hole.

Originally posted by Robtard
Christmas is December 25th, jack-hole. And is the celebration of the Borg Cube's destruction a day prior, dumbass.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
And is the celebration of the Borg Cube's destruction a day prior, dumbass.

No need to emo-rage over a simple mistake, dude. Should have just said "oops, my bad."

U mad, bro? Calm down.

Well, technically the 24th would be correct because Santa "comes to town" on Christmas Eve to deliver the presents.

So Lord Lucien would be the most correct when he said the 24th. That's when Santa comes to town in most "jingles."

lulz

I think Borg stomp.

The Death Star fires its main weapon and the Borg cube is destroyed. But the Borg manage to beam on board the Death Star before that happens. Then they start assimilating the Storm troopers and the crew of the Death Star. The Borg take over the Death Star and turn it into a cube. The Borg win.

http://www.startrek.com/legacy_media/images/200303/voy-272-a-borg-sphere-aperture/320x240.jpg

Use your words, TGT.

picture = 1,000 words

Death Star, with the enhanced morale boost of the Emperor and Vader's presence, as well as the enhanced laser of the Second Death Star, would destroy the Borg Cube

I don't know about you, but a guy who gets off on choking officers to death, and another guy who gets off blowing his realm's worlds to oblivion, isn't my idea of a "morale boost".

I'd say a Borg Cube would win. The Death Star is a relatively stationary target and it's main gun is on one side of it's hull and takes a prolonged firing sequence to use. Borg sensors would be able to tell that the firing sequence was commencing as well as override and shut the process down. The Enterprise D had more advanced systems than the Death Star had, and in it's first encounter with the Borg (when Q tossed them to the Delta Quadrant to prove they weren't ready for what was out there) Picard and crew were essentially helpless to prevent the Borg from scanning them or accessing their systems. The Death Star would face the same issue. Coupled with the Cube just needing to stay out of the line of site aim of the Death Star's main gun, I can't see the Death Star winning. Everyone on the ship save Vader and Palpatine would likely be assimilated, and all they'd have to do is shut down life support on the station and the two Sith will eventually suffocate, if the Death Star isn't blown up outright.

Fo sho, Sho Nuff.

So, does the Death Star not get the four capital ships and thousands of fighters and craft it houses?

Don't think it would matter considering all imperial forces use the same type of weaponry. Once the Cube adapts to the Star Destroyer's, or even a Tie Fighter's weapons fire, it becomes a downhill battle for the Borg. Death Star's main gun is pretty much their only shot unless Vader and or Palpatine can force crush the Cube outright.

The laser bolts from Star Wars put out in the gigaton range with every shot. What is the maximum amount of energy Borg shields can adapt to?

Not sure, but given that the Millennium Falcon was able to take multiple shots to it's deflectors and hull from both Tie Fighters and Star Destroyers without the benefit of adaptive shielding, I'm of the opinion that a Borg Cube's shields and regenerative hull which routinely deflect and adapt to full yield phaser and photon torpedo fire, and even eventually quantum torpedoes, can withstand laser fire.

The Falcon actually had a shield up--remember the line "If we lose the shield, we'll be sitting ducks". The smaller guns on the fighters aren't putting out in the gigaton range--those are the stats for the hull-mounted turbolasers, but they're still very powerful nonetheless. There was a site a few years back that put the numbers from SW and Star Trek up side by side, and SW came out on top in terms of sheer firepower. It's authenticity is up in the air, so I'm hoping someone can provide a quote from the show or an official encyclopedia that details Trek's output.



EDIT: This thread (Nai's posts) is the best I know of on KMC where someone who knows Trek and SW intimately can argue for both. He favored Star Wars, but if there are any updates to Trek's canon since then, it'd be good to add them.

Borg cube

borg stomp!

Death Star Stomps 1 blast and its over, if that does not workd. Vader would slash through all of them and no adapting to a lightsaber, or force-lighting from the Emperor.

TBH it probably would be possible to adapt to a lightsaber...

Originally posted by -Pr-
TBH it probably would be possible to adapt to a lightsaber...

How, its not a projectile or a frequency. The handle contains a power cell. Adegan crystals focus the energy of the power cell into the beam that can cut or burn through anything. Hell he could just start slicing up the ship from the inside. And have Palatine tossing and zapping everyone else. No adapting to force powers.

IIRC, force fields can stop lightsabres.

Each Borg drone has his/her own personal force field generator, ie shields. Stands to reason they could adapt their shields to stop a lightsabre, after "x" amount of drones are killed from one.

Originally posted by Robtard
IIRC, force fields can stop lightsabres.

Each Borg drone has his/her own personal force field generator, ie shields. Stands to reason they could adapt their shields to stop a lightsabre, after "x" amount of drones are killed from one. No limits fallacy.

That is, what are the limits of Borg shields? Like, if you fire the death star laser at two drones, can the third resist it? If you cut down two drones with a beam of super magic plasma, can the third resist it?


Also, what is the range of adaption--distance wise? Like, if a group of drones adapt to the frequency of one phaser, does the entire collective--as in, every drone in the galaxy adapt to it as well? What is the spatial/numerical range of adaptation? Is it just that specific weapon they're adapting to, or what? When does the adaptation wear off? Does the Federation have to keep upping the power output of their weapons every tome one of their soldiers or vessels fire at the Borg?


Also, what exactly are they adapting to? I've only ever heard of them adapting "frequencies". But they've been shown to be vulnerable to physical matter and kinetic energy, of which the plasma in a lightsaber and blaster bolt is, so... what happens then?




Tell me! AAAHHH!

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
No limits fallacy.

That is, what are the limits of Borg shields? Like, if you fire the death star laser at two drones, can the third resist it? If you cut down two drones with a beam of super magic plasma, can the third resist it?

Also, what is the range of adaption--distance wise? Like, if a group of drones adapt to the frequency of one phaser, does the entire collective--as in, every drone in the galaxy adapt to it as well? What is the spatial/numerical range of adaptation? Is it just that specific weapon they're adapting to, or what? When does the adaptation wear off? Does the Federation have to keep upping the power output of their weapons every tome one of their soldiers or vessels fire at the Borg?

Also, what exactly are they adapting to? I've only ever heard of them adapting "frequencies". But they've been shown to be vulnerable to physical matter and kinetic energy, of which the plasma in a lightsaber and blaster bolt is, so... what happens then?

Tell me! AAAHHH!

No, what I said wasn't a no limits fallacy.

Saying something like "a lightsabre can cut through anything" would be a no limit fallacy. I gave a reason and example of how the Borg drones could possibly adapt to a lightsabre. It's a blade of super-heated plasma, not a beam so powerful that it can destroy a planet in one hit or something outside the realm of physics like magic.

Borg have adapted to "physical matter" and "kinetic energy". Klingons and Romulans use blaster-like weapons somewhat similar as seen in Star Wars, that fire bolts of heated energy that has mass behind it. Even phasers have some kinetic energy behind the beam, as we see people getting tossed back form a hit.

Both phasers(not all) and blasers(not all) are classified as "particle weapons" and both in some incarnations use plasma as a medium. They're really not all that different.

So what are the adaptation limits of Borg? What's their threshold of adaptation, how long does it last, what's the spatial distance, and the numerical (number of drones/ships) limit?

Force Lighting would destroy them all.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
So what are the adaptation limits of Borg? What's their threshold of adaptation, how long does it last, what's the spatial distance, and the numerical (number of drones/ships) limit?

So far, there's really only one thing shown to be utterly impervious to the Borg. Species 8472 with their evolutionary apex biology and their bio-based technology from another dimension.

Phasers and disruptors aside prior to adaptation, Klingon bat-leths(ie handheld edged weapons) and holographic bullets have felled Borg drones,and Data's positronic brain showed resistance. But none of those were stated to be invulnerable to adaptation indefinitely. eg We do see the Borg adapt to stabby weapons by learning to dodge/avoid, after a couple of their friends didn't bother to.

I assume bat-leths aren't imbued with magic, the powers of the gods, or energy in some way, they're just blades?


So we know drones can be killed with physical material, explosions, not-real bullets, and a certain amount of energy (whatever that limit may be). I'm going to assume that since the Federation et al. are capable of withstanding the Borg over several generations and many encounters, that the Borg shields have limitations to them, both in durability, range, and duration. We also know they couldn't assimilate a piece of technology that exists within their universe and it's own laws of physics. That's the drones covered. As soldiers capable of taking on, and taking over the soldiers and technology in the Death Star... I think it unlikely they'll get far.


What about their ships? What are their shields like? Do they adapt too? Same thing--limits, range, etc? Are the ships' shields different in some fundamental to the drone shields, or are they just larger versions of the same technology? The Death Star just needs one shot to destroy a cube. And a "fully manned and operational" (according to the OP) Death Star has thousands of fighters, gunboats, and several capital ships. How do the weapons and shields of the Borg ships match up against those?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I assume bat-leths aren't imbued with magic, the powers of the gods, or energy in some way, they're just blades?

So we know drones can be killed with physical material, explosions, not-real bullets, and a certain amount of energy (whatever that limit may be). I'm going to assume that since the Federation et al. are capable of withstanding the Borg over several generations and many encounters, that the Borg shields have limitations to them, both in durability, range, and duration. We also know they couldn't assimilate a piece of technology that exists within their universe and it's own laws of physics. That's the drones covered. As soldiers capable of taking on, and taking over the soldiers and technology in the Death Star... I think it unlikely they'll get far.

What about their ships? What are their shields like? Do they adapt too? Same thing--limits, range, etc? Are the ships' shields different in some fundamental to the drone shields, or are they just larger versions of the same technology? The Death Star just needs one shot to destroy a cube. And a "fully manned and operational" (according to the OP) Death Star has thousands of fighters, gunboats, and several capital ships. How do the weapons and shields of the Borg ships match up against those?

If you're going to use PSI/CSI as a means to say how shitty the Borg are(cos on paper, the Borg shouldn't lose to the Federation), please apply that same 'logic' to the Empire, were they were beaten my furry midgets and stone-age technology. Ergo, the Borg stomp the Death Star on that merit alone. But let's not be idiots and not do that.

The advantage the Borg have over Death Star personal, the Borg can replenish their troops by potentially assimilating anyone into a Drone, from the lowest Death Star janitor to Palpatine, though I'd say Palpatine would be very difficult to assimilate. Also, adapting to their weapons(blasters) in time. In a melee fight, it's the Storm Troopers fight to win, as Borg drones are physically very strong and the Troopers would have to come into range of the Drones assimilation injectors. Thereby turning a Storm Trooper into a Drone Trooper

Borg ships have adaptive shields and the the ships can regenerate, though they have to go to "sleep" for this to happen.

The Death Star hitting a Borg Cube would be highly unlikely. The weapon needs some measure of time to build up, the Borg have censors and would be aware of this massive energy build-up and a Borg Cube unlike a planet isn't set in a predictable moving pattern, they can move away which way. They can also fire/attack while at warp speeds, But yes, if the Death Star's beam were to hit, I'd venture it'd destroy the Cube.

One Borg cube ****ed shit up in Battle Wolf 359. 39 starships were destroyed and was about to being assimilating Earth.

I barely know the show, and all I have to go on is the films here, so bear with me.

How quickly do Borg assimilate people? And exactly how do they do it? I remember in First Contact they needed to inject a little proboscis in to people, lead them away to deeper in the ship, and started transforming them in to drones. If they need to be outfitted first before combat, they're not gonna make for very good soldiers whilst in the middle of said combat.


On a side note: in First Contact, where did the Borg get all that equipment? They beamed aboard the Enterprise and suddenly a whole bunch of their equipment appeared with them in the decks they took over. I've heard that doesn't make any sense, that they can't conjure equipment and materiel out of nothing.


On that, how fast can they assimilate technology? I know the big argument is that they'll "just assimilate", but what's the time like on that? Do they have an... assimilation wave that instantly makes everything theirs, or is there time required? It seemed to take a while before they realized that Data was beyond their reach. And again, that's technology and physics that exist in their own world. What's it going to be like for them to deconstruct and understand technology (which, frankly, is full of bullshit and nothing short of magic) and physics that don't comply with their own? I don't think they can just touch an alien (in every sense of the word) technological construct and master all use and understanding of it, Matrix-style, and then actually integrate it with their own. I also still want to know what the range/limitation is like for the drones' adaptive capabilities; I don't want to shrug and just say "no limits" for either them or Star Wars' blasters and sabers.



I have no idea what those 39 ships were like, so what that f*cking up was like at the hands of one cube is beyond me. I want to know what it'll be like for a Borg cube to fight (and I quote from lowly Wookieepedia here):

7,000 Starfighters
4 Strike cruisers
3,600 Assault shuttles


I have no idea what those latter ships two are.

No worries. I'm a fan of both genres and love talking nerd-speak.

It's not instant and it's varied. IIRC, in first contact Federation crew where showings signs of assimilation moments after being injected with the Borg nanos. The Borg can also beam(transport) people directly into their ships assimilation units/tanks. In Voyager, we learn the Borg can assimilate entire cities full of people by scooping up the city (or parts there of) with their cutting and towing beams.

Stands to reason they assimilated Federation equipment into their own and most likely used the ships replicators to help along. Can't recall which series it was in, but from just a few Borg nanos, an entire drone-incubation-tube was created fairly quick while the crew of the ship was ignorant.

They knew right away that Data's mind was hard to crack. Why the Queen started messing with his body and adapting living tissue to it as a means to persuade him. But I don't see the technology on the Death Star as being similar to Data's positronic brain. Unless I'm missing something.

What exactly is "magic like" about the Death Star, Storm Troopers, blasters etc.? It seems to be advanced technology (by our standards), really no different than the tech seen in Star Trek by and large. Seven of Nine mentioned that the Borg have gone so far as to assimilate a species composed entirely of energy.

Those ships varied. Some were Galaxy Class like the Enterprise or not that low from it. Ships capable of single-handily ****ing up a planet.

IMO, Tiefigthers and such would be like gnats to a Borg cube, considering what they can do to large Star Trek vessels. When the Borg enter Earth's solar system in the battle I mentioned, several small ships are sent and are cast aside like they were nothing.

Seriously doubt a Borg Cube could withstand an assualt from an operational Death Star. Borg also can't adapt to physical assualts like Quantum Torpedoes. So I'm sure if the Empire has any missiles or any weapons non-energy based they'll be of great help.

Is Vader or the Emperor onboard. They'd likely neutralize a desperate attempt of taking the ship when the Borg beam drones over for assimilation.

Vadar and the Emperor win

Originally posted by Robtard
What exactly is "magic like" about the Death Star, Storm Troopers, blasters etc.? It seems to be advanced technology (by our standards), really no different than the tech seen in Star Trek by and large. It's magic by the physics of our own universe. Star Trek seemed to go out of its way to try to explain its technology, at least to an extent. The tech in Star Wars isn't based anywhere close to our reality. By comparison, it may as well operate on magic.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Seriously doubt a Borg Cube could withstand an assualt from an operational Death Star. Borg also can't adapt to physical assualts like Quantum Torpedoes. So I'm sure if the Empire has any missiles or any weapons non-energy based they'll be of great help.

Is Vader or the Emperor onboard. They'd likely neutralize a desperate attempt of taking the ship when the Borg beam drones over for assimilation.

Borg do fine against torpedoes. ie a propulsion projectile with some form of warhead. Both the Federation and the Cardassians employ quantum torpedoes.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
It's magic by the physics of our own universe. Star Trek seemed to go out of its way to try to explain its technology, at least to an extent. The tech in Star Wars isn't based anywhere close to our reality. By comparison, it may as well operate on magic.

Can you give me an example of what's "magic like" compared to Star Teck on the Death Star? Seems like their propulsion, shielding, environmental controls etc are 'standard' tech, for a lack of a better word.

Originally posted by Robtard
Borg do fine against torpedoes. ie a propulsion projectile with some form of warhead. Both the Federation and the Cardassians employ quantum torpedoes.

Since when did the cardassians employ them? Or are we talking about the weapons they were given by the Dominion?

Originally posted by -Pr-
Since when did the cardassians employ them? Or are we talking about the weapons they were given by the Dominion?

In the ST: Voyager episode 'Dreadnaught'. The missile the Maquis stole from the Cardassians and reprogrammed was a exceptionally powerful quantum torpedo, iirc.

Though admittedly, that's the only instance that comes to mind.

Originally posted by Robtard
In the ST: Voyager episode 'Dreadnaught'. The missile the Maquis stole from the Cardassians and reprogrammed was a exceptionally powerful quantum torpedo, iirc.

Though admittedly, that's the only instance that comes to mind.

Oh okay. I thought you were talking about the orbital platforms used during the war.

it always amuses me how in the original script for first contact, quantums were supposed to be capable of one-shotting entire cubes, and that they were fighting a fleet of them, only for them to scale it back for the movie.

Originally posted by Robtard
Can you give me an example of what's "magic like" compared to Star Teck on the Death Star? Seems like their propulsion, shielding, environmental controls etc are 'standard' tech, for a lack of a better word. They're "like magic" because they don't actually give us much explanation. Star Trek is famous for it's techno babble, even if a lot if is just bullshit. Star Wars doesn't really bother with that. Things work because... that's what they do. I think radiation is used as an answer a lot. Not that it makes any sense.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
They're "like magic" because they don't actually give us much explanation. Star Trek is famous for it's techno babble, even if a lot if is just bullshit. Star Wars doesn't really bother with that. Things work because... that's what they do.

"Midichloreans."

nerd

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
"Midichloreans."

nerd What are those? Never heard of 'em. Leave my childhood out of this.

Originally posted by Robtard
Star Teck

Borg can beam through shields - just like the Dominion and Borg weaponry can fire faster than the DS

Still think the Death Star will be putting the Borg Cube down before the reverse. The Borg have to adapt to a new attack and there is no way they'll be able withstand the power the Death Star is capable of putting out with one shot.

What about the Death Star's shield? It was using Endor to generate it in ROTJ?

The first didn't have a shield.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
The first didn't have a shield.

Indeed. Previous dude indirectly pointed that out.


It was a remote shield.

Shouldn't matter as it should only take one shot to down the Borg Cube.

I suppose the borg are seemingly indestructible, why haven't they assimilated all beings?
Issue here is with the force since one brought up the emperor and vader. Vader was a strategist savant and a savant in the use of the force.
Borgs one we dont know if that mystical energy we call the force could be counteracted by a borg because in star trek there is no force to speak of.
So all is theory, my theory is vader would cut through the borg to the queen and rip her apart telekeniticly.
Let us presuppose the emperor would have foreseen the borg cube and have found a way to suppress that, he would have researched ancient sith holos in preparation for such and possibly rediscovered the tech to make another rakatan star forge with a hundred death stars and innumerable super star destroyers the cube would not stand a chance.

The limit of the scope is a direct fight one one one and that would not happen with palpitine, he may not have been the most powerful sith Lord but he was the most strategic.

A super star destoyer does not just have energy weapons it also can employs rail tech which is waht a lot of the old mandalorians would use as well as thier vessels to embark by penetrating the hulls of ships then allowing the extraction teams to enter via hull breach.
All of this would be used with the force ability to foresee the future.

I see no way to assimilate and defend against precognitive ability, and though it may not be perfect clairvoyance it allows for the ability to not be caught unaware and to be prepared.

and one last question can the borg assimilate to the crushing of their internal organs or skull by force tk?

Oh man! spacebattles would chew this debate out hardcore in moments... BUUUUT I'm not gonna play that card and just say that the Death Star wins, even without it's compliment of fighters and other craft.

#1: The turbolasers are not actual light beam lasers some are insinuating, they are particle beams that use tibana gas as their medium. Esentially making them DET (Direct Energy Transfer) weapons. And their range is considerably larger than most give credit for.

#2: the firepower of said turbolasers are considerable. Anyone ever heard of a Base Delta Zero? Basically it is a set of heavy turbolasers on a Star Destroyer reducing the surface of a livable world into slag in a few hours. And this has happened several times. Now, in total, a single Imperial class Star Destroyer has 8 twin barreled Heavy turbo laser batteries, the Death Star has hundreds of these all over it's surface. Now, given that the Cube has no narrow profile with which to reduce how much firepower it's going to be taking at any given direction, and considering that particle beams do not emit frequencies like what phasers, disruptors and torpedoes do, they are going to have a HELL of a time adapting to it.

#3: turbos arnt the only weapons a Death Star packs. Outside of the Super laser (and I will absolutely laugh my ass off at anyone who asserts that the Cube could tank the Super laser because it is a "laser", we also have ion cannons, Proton torp launchers, and concussion missile batteries (Standard and Diamond Boron Missile varieties).

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Anyone ever heard of a Base Delta Zero? You know there's an entire subforum here dedicated to Star Wars. So chances are, yeah.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
You know there's an entire subforum here dedicated to Star Wars. So chances are, yeah.

superdur

....

Sorry, I had to.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Oh man! spacebattles would chew this debate out hardcore in moments... BUUUUT I'm not gonna play that card and just say that the Death Star wins, even without it's compliment of fighters and other craft.

#1: The turbolasers are not actual light beam lasers some are insinuating, they are particle beams that use tibana gas as their medium. Esentially making them DET (Direct Energy Transfer) weapons. And their range is considerably larger than most give credit for.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
#2: the firepower of said turbolasers are considerable. Anyone ever heard of a Base Delta Zero? Basically it is a set of heavy turbolasers on a Star Destroyer reducing the surface of a livable world into slag in a few hours.

Which is what Commander Riker said the Enterprise D could do to the surface of a planet, as well (could reduce the entire surface of a planet in a few hours). The shields of the Borg Cube could withstand those same phasers and not take any reduction in sturdiness, once adapted.


The Cube has more powerful weapons and a Tactical Cube is made specifically for battle.


The turbolasers would get 1 or 2 shots off and then the Cube would adapt and they would be useless. If they happened to destroy a single Cube or sphere, all the others cubes and spheres would adapt making the Turbolasers useless against the entire Borg forces.


Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
...they are going to have a HELL of a time adapting to it.

Not at all. It would be a cake-walk for the Borg to adapt to as similar power is output by phasers.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Which is what Commander Riker said the Enterprise D could do to the surface of a planet, as well (could reduce the entire surface of a planet in a few hours). The shields of the Borg Cube could withstand those same phasers and not take any reduction in sturdiness, once adapted.

No, it was speculated upon, but never demonstrated. The one time we have where they ciome close is during The Die Is Cast, and all we get to see is a brown splotch. Wityh a BDZ, it is the proccess of making the planet uninhabitable, and rendering all accessible natural recourses kaput. This is why they literally melt the surface of a planet down to it's mantle, efectivelky pasting the upper crust entirely.

Originally posted by dadudemon
The Cube has more powerful weapons and a Tactical Cube is made specifically for battle.

We are not talking about a tactical Cube here, and the one Tactical Cube we have seen in all of Star trek has demonstrated precisely nothing more than an ordinary Assimilation Cube.

Originally posted by dadudemon
The turbolasers would get 1 or 2 shots off and then the Cube would adapt and they would be useless. If they happened to destroy a single Cube or sphere, all the others cubes and spheres would adapt making the Turbolasers useless against the entire Borg forces.

Nope. borg adaption technology is based on frequency adaption, not tanking. You can't adapt to the frequency of a turbo laser, because it doesn't work based on frequencies, Charged Particle beams are not frequency based.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Not at all. It would be a cake-walk for the Borg to adapt to as similar power is output by phasers.

Proof? See above.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
No, it was speculated upon, but never demonstrated.


No, that's not speculation. That was a statement of fact about Starfleet phasers which had been in existence for over 2 centuries from a highly intelligent and educated Starfleet officer. They later used toned down and rephased phasers to drill holes into the crust of another planet.

Also, The Original Series pilot, The Cage, it was stated that 23rd Century Technology phasers, on the Enterprise, were enough to vaporize an entire continent.

And thus ends your attempts to marginalize Star Trek Tech.




Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
We are not talking about a tactical Cube here, and the one Tactical Cube we have seen in all of Star trek has demonstrated precisely nothing more than an ordinary Assimilation Cube.

The OP didn't say what type of Cube. I'll choose to use a Tactical Cube.

I'll pretend the Death Star used is the incomplete one.


Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Nope. borg adaption technology is based on frequency adaption, not tanking.

Wrong: it is based on a myriad of factors one of which is frequency.


Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
You can't adapt to the frequency of a turbo laser, because it doesn't work based on frequencies, Charged Particle beams are not frequency based.

Yeah, the Borg of never adapted to particle beams.



Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Proof? See above.

Already provided but you had to ignore quite a bit of it to ask for proof, here. See all of my posts.

LoL, the "Borg can't adapt to turbolasers" nonsense again. When there's far more indicating that they can.

Phasers are particle weapons. Disruptors are particle weapons.

Phaser cannons as seen on a Defiant Class ship fire bolts(burst); not beams, which are extremely similar to turbolasers.

All of which the Borg have show the capacity to adapt to.

death star for the win

The borg won't even be able to assimilate, If it could destroy a planet, It can destroy a large shielded cube. Honestly, I don't get it. How could the borg resist? In this case.. Resistance IS futile.

They would simply dodge the superlaser.

If the main death star weapon got a hit it would be over. Given how unlikely this is then nothing else on the death star weapon compliment wouldn't make a dent in the cube. The argument that the cube couldn't adapt to turbolasers cos they use tibana gas particle weapons and the Borg have never came across particle weapons is utterly stupid, desperate and borne of ignorance. A 5 second Google search comes up with this

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Particle_weapon

The Borg will do their usual. Analyse the death star shields. Adapt. Beam through them. Assimilate storm troopers and from there it's simply a matter of time before they take over everything and everyone on it.

very nice information

Death star takes this.

in the ass.

Bye, bot.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Borg can't adapt to Kinetic weaponry, can they? SW projectiles are shooting plasma, which isn't pure energy like Phasers. Even then they also have Mass driver cannons, the Imperials.

Answered that all of 3 posts ago.

Originally posted by The Merchant
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Borg can't adapt to Kinetic weaponry, can they? SW projectiles are shooting plasma, which isn't pure energy like Phasers. Even then they also have Mass driver cannons, the Imperials.

You're wrong.

Not only is he wrong, he's also not right.

Originally posted by Mindset
Not only is he wrong, he's also not right.

Applying simply maths, that makes his twice the terrible person.

Death star wins by holographic bullet.




























































http://fashionablygeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/stormtrooper-troll.jpg

Death Star, easily.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Derp Derp, derpaderp.

Precisely.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
Precisely. Too powerful for the Borg cube. On another level.

Thank you very much

The Borg would win, no contest. If we remember the TNG episodes with the Borg, they have an electromagnetic shield that all directed-energy weapons were useless against. Therefore, the Death Star's only chance obliterated. Also, the Borg tractor beam would drain the power out of all the Death Star's systems except for life support. The Borg plasma disruptors could then lay waste to the Empire's prized weapon at whatever pace they wanted, after assimilating everyone on board.

Have fun froving the Borg can adapt to planet busting laser beams, or even country busting turbolasers

Or drain energy from a weapon that generates far more energy every 24 hours than the sun does every 7000 years

Go back to Starfleet Jedi

Star Trek weapons (phasers, disruptors etc), are easily country busting if they want to be.

Originally posted by Lawrence, T.E.
The Borg would win, no contest. If we remember the TNG episodes with the Borg, they have an electromagnetic shield that all directed-energy weapons were useless against. Therefore, the Death Star's only chance obliterated. Also, the Borg tractor beam would drain the power out of all the Death Star's systems except for life support. The Borg plasma disruptors could then lay waste to the Empire's prized weapon at whatever pace they wanted, after assimilating everyone on board.

Stupidest post on the forum ever made.

Originally posted by Brockalizer
Let's say that a Borg cube was able to use their temporal warp technology and travel to a galaxy long ago and far far away. They encounter a fully manned and operational Death Star. And just for shits and giggles Vader and the Emperor are both on board. Who wins? My money is on the Borg.

Death star I or II because super laser MK-II have a greater precision and range it can target ship.....

Don't forget than death star possess a very poerfull shield...

I AM THE STAR WAR EXPERT AROUN HERE. SO LET'S RESUME.

deathstar has more horsepower, plus its got the force on it's side.

WTF???? The force?? O.K if plaptine is using it to source the generator....

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/ee/ba/7d/eeba7d99aea7f88e02eb9b1801626dbc.jpg
http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2014/171/0/1/ size_comparison___science_fiction_spaceships_by_di
rkloechel-d6lfgdf.jpg

Need I say moar?