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Pure h2h. No powers.

Crossbones.

Crossbones

crossbones knows h2h moves???? lol


barton slightly ftw

Clint barton pulls a win 7/10...

If it's the girl hawkeye... He gets beat down 8/10 by crossbones...

If it's bullseye hawkeye he wins 9/10...

lol bendisclint

Barton's apparently stronger than Bones now

As the inherent silliness of the archer character and the absurdity of an olympic athlete actually contributing with anything to a group of superbeings who can level cities became increasingly evident since the end of the silver age, such characters have been in desperate need of upgrades to be taken seriously. So I congratulate Bendis on making HE an actual threat.

There is nothing silly but it Clint flips Crossbones out of a window. Or kills him in his sleep.

see? he's outgrown the trick arrow silliness

Originally posted by 753
As the inherent silliness of the archer character and the absurdity of an olympic athlete actually contributing with anything to a group of superbeings who can level cities became increasingly evident since the end of the silver age, such characters have been in desperate need of upgrades to be taken seriously. So I congratulate Bendis on making HE an actual threat. thats why cap rapes, right?

Originally posted by Lord_Talron
thats why cap rapes, right? You mean because cap has actual superpowers - no matter what is said about peak human - and fulfills a strategic role in his team? sure. Besides that shield isnt as lame as a bow and arrows.

Leave poor HE alone. You'd better be hating the bugboy.

Originally posted by 753
As the inherent silliness of the archer character and the absurdity of an olympic athlete actually contributing with anything to a group of superbeings who can level cities became increasingly evident since the end of the silver age, such characters have been in desperate need of upgrades to be taken seriously. So I congratulate Bendis on making HE an actual threat. but it was completely unexplained skill upgrade and the reasoning behind it was absurd by the HE logic Thunderstrike should be a master Ma'er he had more on panel training from Cap personally then anyone else...... Tony himself no tech should be a ninja assassin a league above barton as well..

the reasoning for HE should be applied evenly to ppl who benefited more then him.

i can name a dozen heroes who MA training surpasses HE and dont have a remote absurd level of MA skill feats.

that may all be true, but those other chracters have other things going for them. HE needed this to remain believable as a heroe

the only reason the writer even gave Burton the skills is b/c the dude is a horrible writer and everyone figured Ronin was really echo so to throw them off he did a bate switch...

facepalm2

i mean how are we really suppose to take him seriously when the reason for his supposed upgrade was to keep readers guessing and a writer who needed a reason to vindicate himself?

the real reason is that HE was loser and couldnt go on as an A-lister with the way things were

and including his new MA abilities theya re not enough to fight off Crossbones who is goin to rape him...

what is HE goin to do beat him in his sleep or BFR so he wont have to face him in mutual combat?

Barton is gonna end just like this:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_PxotHw9e2Pw/SyGy-6Lnz2I/AAAAAAAABSI/egWEZs_SIpg/s1600/Clint0001.jpg

bump

oh and:

http://i53.tinypic.com/k1dylv.jpg

Hawkeye.

Bones did quite good against Cap in T-Bolts #150:

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/1043/tbolts1500034.th.jpg http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/896/tbolts1500035.th.jpg

In pure h2h Rumlow beats both Barton and Bullseye HE

bump

hey who was that in the scan?

crossbones after exposure to terrigen crystals

Yep.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Bones did quite good against Cap in T-Bolts #150:

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/1043/tbolts1500034.th.jpg http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/896/tbolts1500035.th.jpg

Exposure to the terrigen crystals is essentially an amp...

So an amped crossbones did okay against cap and u call that fair? Dudes head was On fire or something by the looks of those scans

Originally posted by rotiart
Exposure to the terrigen crystals is essentially an amp...

So an amped crossbones did okay against cap and u call that fair? Dudes head was On fire or something by the looks of those scans

facepalm

All he could do was firing those face beams. And he never hit Cap with one anyway. Steve kept evading them.

Originally posted by rotiart
Exposure to the terrigen crystals is essentially an amp...

So an amped crossbones did okay against cap and u call that fair? Dudes head was On fire or something by the looks of those scans his stats werent amped he gained a superpoer in the form of an incandescent head and a laser shot from it. still beat capitain capitalism to shit with his bare hands

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
facepalm

All he could do was firing those face beams. And he never hit Cap with one anyway. Steve kept evading them.

You can see that even when he didn't hit him it was draining his stamina, also its harder to fight somebody with four limbs and fire for a head. Give me a break.

Originally posted by Deadline
You can see that even when he didn't hit him it was draining his stamina, also its harder to fight somebody with four limbs and fire for a head. Give me a break.

Heh. So much for Steve's infinite stamina

Brock got cheapshotted on the beginning of the fight and Rogers had his energy shield. When it came down to h2h, it ended badly for Cap, period.

He's not fighting Commander Rogers in this thread, by the way Recently he snapped Werewolf's head, pretty decent str feat.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Heh. So much for Steve's infinite stamina

Brock got cheapshotted on the beginning of the fight and Rogers had his energy shield.

Cap doesn't have infinite stamina.

The cheapshot did nothing, Cap never used the shield in an offensive capacity.

Please post the scans of Rumlow blowing up the ground from underneath Steve.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW

When it came down to h2h, it ended badly for Cap, period.



I'm not even sure if you're the same poster, context.

Crossbones beats Clint to death.

Originally posted by Deadline
Cap doesn't have infinite stamina.

The cheapshot did nothing, Cap never used the shield in an offensive capacity.

Please post the scans of Rumlow blowing up the ground from underneath Steve.

OK.

"Did nothing"? Yeah, sure, only knocked him down on his ass and dazed him. He did actually, you might want to re-read the fight.

Pretty sure they both got hurt by it.


Originally posted by Deadline
I'm not even sure if you're the same poster, context.

Lol?

Its kind of hard to fight someone h2h when a face beam could come at any second......LOL. It changes your rythm.

Cap defeated Bones without the SSS. Don't get it twisted.

Bones normaly has an advantage on Steve with sneak attack, surprise attack/circumstances.

http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/5695/thunderbolts150036.th.jpg

Also to be fair for Cap. Bones didn't do good in the end.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
OK.

"Did nothing"? Yeah, sure, only knocked him down on his ass and dazed him. He did actually, you might want to re-read the fight.


Yea the cheapshot did nothing because it did no serious damage.

Energy blast >>> Flykick.

Um think that might have something to do with why he managed to put Cap down so easily? Considering that Cap beat him without the SSS that is the most logical conclusion. Oh I see your dodging the fact that Cap got stunned by the energy blast and fousing on the flykick.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW

Pretty sure they both got hurt by it.

You would, considering that Bones was standing and Cap was on the floor dazed I think he got off worse.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Don't get it twisted.



This.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/5695/thunderbolts150036.th.jpg

Also to be fair for Cap. Bones didn't do good in the end. cap was done for, bones got distracted by the red skull image in the lake

Originally posted by 753
cap was done for, bones got distracted by the red skull image in the lake

Context, Cap stated he planned it and Crossbones was amped.

Originally posted by 753
cap was done for, bones got distracted by the red skull image in the lake

Nope.

Cap would have dodge the last face beam. Lake image or not and drowned him either way. Bones likes to hear himself....LOL.

Plus if Cap was done for he still shouldn't have been able to turn it around and have Bones fall.

So your theory of would of.....could of.....should of is moot.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Nope.

Cap would have dodge the last face beam. Lake image or not and drowned him either way. Bones likes to hear himself....LOL.

Plus if Cap was done for he still shouldn't have been able to turn it around and have Bones fall.

So your theory of would of.....could of.....should of is moot.

Cap also said "I thought thats what you would see." Cap knew what Crossbones would see thats why he crawled over to the lake.

Good point.
I missed that.....doesn't suprised me though Cap is a strategic genius. He not only beat him in the end of the fight.

He mentally raped him.

Crossbones

In the past vs Hawkeye I actually would have said Crossbones 7-8/10. But with Hawkeye's new push recently and with Bones looking terrible against Bucky two times there fights and Logan making him look like a stooge.

His stock has gone down a bit. Even Batroc did better against Bucky...yikes. But to be fair Bucky was ubber pissed since he thought that he killed Steve.

Damn Crossbones 5.5/10 and its a tough fight every damn time.

Bendispower Clint

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Nope.

Cap would have dodge the last face beam. Lake image or not and drowned him either way. Bones likes to hear himself....LOL.

Plus if Cap was done for he still shouldn't have been able to turn it around and have Bones fall.

So your theory of would of.....could of.....should of is moot. bullshit, it was only when he saw the image that his focus broke and he missed. story makes it clear.

Originally posted by 753
bullshit, it was only when he saw the image that his focus broke and he missed. story makes it clear.


He missed because Cap dodged and then owned him. You can't prove it.

That fact that he lost shows how desperate you are being.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
He missed because Cap dodged and then owned him. You can't prove it.

That fact that he lost shows how desperate you are being. lol, anyone reading the story would get that he self-defeated because of his shock when seeing red skull's face. cap even coments on it

Almost to me looked like he purposely shot it at the lake out of anger, making him fail due to cis, more then anything.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
In the past vs Hawkeye I actually would have said Crossbones 7-8/10. But with Hawkeye's new push recently and with Bones looking terrible against Bucky two times there fights and Logan making him look like a stooge.

His stock has gone down a bit. Even Batroc did better against Bucky...yikes. But to be fair Bucky was ubber pissed since he thought that he killed Steve.

Damn Crossbones 5.5/10 and its a tough fight every damn time.
what has clint done in h2h? Bucky would stomp hawlk eye in h2h. Let a lone a blood lusted Bucky. Also Hawlk would have been put down the same way if hit by Logan like that.


Batroc done fair job against capt before and fantomex. He fluctuates a lot.

Originally posted by 753
lol, anyone reading the story would get that he self-defeated because of his shock when seeing red skull's face. cap even coments on it

He was pissed off at Cap of course he was shooting at him LOL.

Here's the million dollar question for you.

Prove he would have shot Cap without the lake in the end?

Show me a scan of it or Cap admitting to it....otherwise you don't have nothing. ha ha ha ha

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Almost to me looked like he purposely shot it at the lake out of anger, making him fail due to cis, more then anything.


Out of anger he tried shooting at Cap as Cap dodged and then moved closer to his Bones legs its in the scan. Cap owned him in the end.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
what has clint done in h2h? Bucky would stomp hawlk eye in h2h. Let a lone a blood lusted Bucky. Also Hawlk would have been put down the same way if hit by Logan like that.


Batroc done fair job against capt before and fantomex. He fluctuates a lot.


h2h I agree Bucky would win the majority but with arrows it be a toss up in my book. Batroc too my knowledge only fair well against Capt in there first encounter. The others Cap always beat him bad or made him run IIRC.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
h2h I agree Bucky would win the majority but with arrows it be a toss up in my book. Batroc too my knowledge only fair well against Capt in there first encounter. The others Cap always beat him bad or made him run IIRC.
This is h2h

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Out of anger he tried shooting at Cap as Cap dodged and then moved closer to his Bones legs its in the scan. Cap owned him in the end.
I disagree, completely. Looking at the first set of scans, bones clearly has capt held in both his hands with his face right behind capt head. He looks to have let go of capt and fired at the image of red skull which capt rolled away and took advantage of.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
I disagree, completely. Looking at the first set of scans, bones clearly has capt held in both his hands with his face right behind capt head. He looks to have let go of capt and fired at the image of red skull which capt rolled away and took advantage of.



I disagree completely because he's not shooting straight down at the image but look at the shot its turned toward were Cap was. Not a straight blast. As Cap moved out of the way clearly shows Cap anticipated the blast. Then he trips over Steve as he moved back.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
This is h2h


Duh. That's why I gave Bones the edge 5.5/10.

He still got owned by Steve though.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
I disagree completely because he's not shooting straight down at the image but look at the shot its turned toward were Cap was. Not a straight blast. As Cap moved out of the way clearly shows Cap anticipated the blast. Then he trips over Steve as he moved back.

Yes straight down, becuase he stood up to shot at it. If you look at the scan he in a kneeling position. He then ramdonly stands up rants he better then him (red skull with he blasting at the image) Capt takes advantage of and graps him.


If capt did what you suggested, he moved not only towards, red skull left arm which is on capt face, which would have made such a move difficult and illogical, and he could have moved easier to the other side. Then on top of it, he would have moved right into bones blast, who head is to the left of capts. Honestly think your giving capt way more credit then deserved.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Duh. That's why I gave Bones the edge 5.5/10.

He still got owned by Steve though.
But why? what has halk eye done in h2h?







He got distracted, though not to say capt would not beat him in h2h or beat him either way.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Yes straight down, becuase he stood up to shot at it. If you look at the scan he in a kneeling position. He then ramdonly stands up rants he better then him (red skull with he blasting at the image) Capt takes advantage of and graps him.


If capt did what you suggested, he moved not only towards, red skull left arm which is on capt face, which would have made such a move difficult and illogical, and he could have moved easier to the other side. Then on top of it, he would have moved right into bones blast, who head is to the left of capts. Honestly think your giving capt way more credit then deserved.


Not straight down the blast is going to the left in the direction that Cap doged. Since he was up straight he wouldn't have been able to see the image that well of the face anyways. Blasts Cap as Cap moves out of the way and then Cap takes the advantage.

So your saying if Cap didn't move he would have been safe......LOL.

I don't think so.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
But why? what has halk eye done in h2h?







He got distracted, though not to say capt would not beat him in h2h or beat him either way.


Bones just hasn't impressed me of lately is all. Plus is not like Cap(Bucky) has defeated/stalemated big names either(not to my knowledge) and he defeated Bones handily.

Plus Hawkeye just impressed the heck out of me against Steve lately. Yeah I know he had his weapons but so did Steve at the time. Don't get me wrong though Steve would take the majority over Clint.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Not straight down the blast is going to the left in the direction that Cap doged. Since he was up straight he wouldn't have been able to see the image that well of the face anyways. Blasts Cap as Cap moves out of the way and then Cap takes the advantage.

So your saying if Cap didn't move he would have been safe......LOL.

I don't think so.
That makes zero sense, he was right behind capt with two arms on him, kneeling. Why then stand? it illogical. He stoodup to hit the image which was his reflection, which was to the left of capt own head, were he aimed. If his intended target was capt he have no need to get up. He could simply of blasted straight a head and to the right, but instead it stood up and shot to the left were his image was. His hands are even way up in the air, not of some one who grasp was just broken in a kneeling position which is what your suggesting. Also why on earth would he be aiming for the water, if capt was he target? or would being saying, better then "him". He clearly shot the image and was going to attack capt next, but capt used the opening to end it.


yes the intial shot would have completelyh missed him, perhaps some spash damage but nothing remotely life threatening. Look at were capt head is in relation to red skulls in the intial pictures, then look at the next scan. Red skull aim is completely to the opposite side of were capt head was. Capt would not have been safe for long, but yes the initial attack was not aimed at him, and the text clearly suggests this.

I do think so.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Bones just hasn't impressed me of lately is all. Plus is not like Cap(Bucky) has defeated/stalemated big names either(not to my knowledge) and he defeated Bones handily.

Plus Hawkeye just impressed the heck out of me against Steve lately. Yeah I know he had his weapons but so did Steve at the time. Don't get me wrong though Steve would take the majority over Clint.

what has hawlk eye done of late in h2h? Again nor has hawlk eye. Bucky been stated and suggested as having similar skills and training to captain america. He had his skills praised a number of time, more so then hawlk eye ever has in terms of h2h and martial arts. He also has shown to be superior to falcon, black widow ect in h2h. He had guys like capt and wolverien compared his skills to theres and praise him.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
That makes zero sense, he was right behind capt with two arms on him, kneeling. Why then stand? it illogical. He stoodup to hit the image which was his reflection, which was to the left of capt own head, were he aimed. If his intended target was capt he have no need to get up. He could simply of blasted straight a head and to the right, but instead it stood up and shot to the left were his image was. His hands are even way up in the air, not of some one who grasp was just broken in a kneeling position which is what your suggesting. Also why on earth would he be aiming for the water, if capt was he target? or would being saying, better then "him". He clearly shot the image and was going to attack capt next, but capt used the opening to end it.


yes the intial shot would have completelyh missed him, perhaps some spash damage but nothing remotely life threatening. Look at were capt head is in relation to red skulls in the intial pictures, then look at the next scan. Red skull aim is completely to the opposite side of were capt head was. Capt would not have been safe for long, but yes the initial attack was not aimed at him, and the text clearly suggests this.

I do think so.


Yes and as I said the blast would have been straight down not in the direction that Cap dodged. Why did he got up? To create some distance for safety. Look at him as you said he's holding Cap. He doesn't want to blast his own hands and figures a little distance would do him no wrong. Either way he blasts doesn't fire straight down at the image but even in the direction that Cap dodges and it still wasn't fast enough.

This I think so.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
what has hawlk eye done of late in h2h? Again nor has hawlk eye. Bucky been stated and suggested as having similar skills and training to captain america. He had his skills praised a number of time, more so then hawlk eye ever has in terms of h2h and martial arts. He also has shown to be superior to falcon, black widow ect in h2h. He had guys like capt and wolverien compared his skills to theres and praise him.



Falcon was just a sparring contest as Falcon was more concerned for his robotic arm(he said so himself.) What you don't think Hawkeye has been praised before. Read his latest encounter with Steve. As of late in h2h? Not sure but Bones just hasn't impressed me with Buck. It was too easy for him....not once but twice.

Heck thats why I give the edge to Bones even if its minimal.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Yes and as I said the blast would have been straight down not in the direction that Cap dodged. Why did he got up. To create some distance for safety? Look at him as you said he's holding Cap. He doesn't want to blast his own hands and figures a little distance would do him no wrong.

Why would Bones have kneeled and grap capt the way he did, if his intent was then to stand back and blast him? It makes zero senses and sounds like wishful thinking. What makes more senses, that red skull entire intent form the get go was to random grap capts face and hair, only to then fore seconds later stand up and blast him? Or that red skull intended to finish him, but got distracted by his own image and capt comments which we see in the pictures and text.


Originally posted by Daredevil1
way he blasts doesn't fire straight down at the image but even in the direction that Cap dodges and it still wasn't fast enough.

This I think so.

Except your missing the context that the image was to the left of capt head which is were he aimed his face and why he stood up to get clear shot. Not sure how that can not be seen that bones cis allowed for an opening capt took. Not saying he did not intend to shoot capt after, or was even moving the blast over to finish him, what I am argueing is the initial blast was aimed as his own image which seems pretty clear from the text.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Falcon was just a sparring contest as Falcon was more concerned for his robotic arm(he said so himself.)
which bucky schooled him, and pointed out that was a flaw in his own fighting skills.


Originally posted by Daredevil1
you don't think Hawkeye has been praised before. Read his latest encounter with Steve. As of late in h2h?
Never doubted he been praised, but he simply not been praised as by as many times or as many establish MA masters for his MA and h2h skills as bucky



Originally posted by Daredevil1
sure but Bones just hasn't impressed me with Buck. It was too easy for him....not once but twice.


yes and? What has hawlk eye done in h2h? nothing. There no reason to assume he would do as good or even as close against Bucky either. So point seems rather shallow one. Why does these two incidents take presidencies over his other showings?

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Heck thats why I give the edge to Bones even if its minimal.
Why should it be minimal, when his h2h and MA feats are simply better then Hawlk eyes?

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Why would Bones have kneeled and grap capt the way he did, if his intent was then to stand back and blast him? It makes zero senses and sounds like wishful thinking. What makes more senses, that red skull entire intent form the get go was to random grap capts face and hair, only to then fore seconds later stand up and blast him? Or that red skull intended to finish him, but got distracted by his own image and capt comments which we see in the pictures and text.




Except your missing the context that the image was to the left of capt head which is were he aimed his face and why he stood up to get clear shot. Not sure how that can not be seen that bones cis allowed for an opening capt took. Not saying he did not intend to shoot capt after, or was even moving the blast over to finish him, what I am argueing is the initial blast was aimed as his own image which seems pretty clear from the text.


Why would bones grab him first anyways and not just be smart and try to blast him? Notice I said try because knowing Cap he still would have dodged. Actually no it doesn't make it clear since the blast isn't aimed at the image.
It makes perfect sense since he was holding Cap he didn't want to blast his own hands off.

Next.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
which bucky schooled him, and pointed out that was a flaw in his own fighting skills.



Never doubted he been praised, but he simply not been praised as by as many times or as many establish MA masters for his MA and h2h skills as bucky






yes and? What has hawlk eye done in h2h? nothing. There no reason to assume he would do as good or even as close against Bucky either. So point seems rather shallow one. Why does these two incidents take presidencies over his other showings?


Why should it be minimal, when his h2h and MA feats are simply better then Hawlk eyes?



Yeah so better he lost twice to Buck. Ouch that stings.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Yeah so better he lost twice to Buck. Ouch that stings.
yes and? why does losing to Bucky, have an barings on how he fair against halk eye?

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
yes and? why does losing to Bucky, have an barings on how he fair against halk eye?


Because Buck isn't a proven A-list fighter. Not to my knowledge anyways. Plus Hawkeye in his Ronin outfit using combat weapons and fighting a lot H2H looked pretty darn good. In fact he even received complements for it. As he stated he was trained by the best? Guess who? Cap( and not the bucky one)

But I still give Bones the edge in h2h.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Why would bones grab him first anyways and not just be smart and try to blast him? Notice I said try because knowing Cap he still would have dodged. Actually no it doesn't make it clear since the blast isn't aimed at the image.
It makes perfect sense since he was holding Cap he didn't want to blast his own hands off.

Next.
Becuase the entire point of the fight was, so he could finish capt for good and for certain. What more certain then directly up close? Again seems like wishful thinking on your part.

Except it is aimed at the image, which was left of capt americas head, which he move to get a clear shot, which seem pretty obvious.

So let me get this straight. Your arguement is that Bones kneeled on the ground right behind capt, grabbed his hair and face, only to then stand up and seperate to create space for safty reasons. are you kidding me?

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Becuase the entire point of the fight was, so he could finish capt for good and for certain. What more certain then directly up close? Again seems like wishful thinking on your part.

Except it is aimed at the image, which was left of capt americas head, which he move to get a clear shot, which seem pretty obvious.

So let me get this straight. Your arguement is that Bones kneeled on the ground right behind capt, grabbed his hair and face, only to then stand up and seperate to create space for safty reasons. are you kidding me?


Again seems wishful thinking on your part. Because being close to Cap is a bad thing turn around and reverses etc etc. Oh yeah and what part of not blowing apart himself did you not get.

Maybe your a maniac to hold Steve in place with your hands and then blast him away and your own parts. But with your reasoning it wouldn't surprise me.

Not one bit.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Because Buck isn't a proven A-list fighter.

Yes and? Hawlk eye not even a proven c level fighter.........

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Hawkeye in his Ronin outfit using combat weapons and fighting a lot H2H looked pretty darn good.

You mean ronin outfit, in which he almost never fought h2h, only used mostly swords, and some nun-chucks........hell he did not asside from the nun-chucks display almost nothing out side what he been able to do since his time in the circus. If your basing your opinion off the fact he dressed like a ninja and fought with swords equals being a match for 2nd tier combatants, your sadly mistaken I am afraid.


Originally posted by Daredevil1
In fact he even received complements for it. As he stated he was trained by the best? Guess who? Cap( and not the bucky one)
Yea he recieved some training from capt, as has spiderman, jones ect. That far from makes them capable of hanging with bones in skill.


You do realize Bukcy recieved training from people who trained capt as well as extensively by captain america himself. Hawlk eye training by capt is not even remotely comparable to what Bukcy recieved.

And before you say. Then why didn't just bones remove his hands when holding him. Because once he removed his hands Steve could have done something there as well. Its called martial arts all sorts of neat counters and tricks.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Yes and? Hawlk eye not even a proven c level fighter.........



You mean ronin outfit, in which he almost never fought h2h, only used mostly swords, and some nun-chucks........hell he did not asside from the nun-chucks display almost nothing out side what he been able to do since his time in the circus. If your basing your opinion off the fact he dressed like a ninja and fought with swords equals being a match for 2nd tier combatants, your sadly mistaken I am afraid.



Yea he recieved some training from capt, as has spiderman, jones ect. That far from makes them capable of hanging with bones in skill.


You do realize Bukcy recieved training from people who trained capt as well as extensively by captain america himself. Hawlk eye training by capt is not even remotely comparable to what Bukcy recieved.


Wait wait so Hawkeye cant receive praises but Buck can? Hawkeye can't use swords or nun-chucks but Buck can use a cyborg hands/guns/knives/sniper weapons...LOL. Double standard much huh.

And again that's why I give it to Bones over Hawkeye.

Sorry but that thrashing he got from Buck twice just left me a bitter taste.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Again seems wishful thinking on your part. Because being close to Cap is a bad thing turn around and reverses etc etc. Oh yeah and what part of not blowing apart himself did you not get.

What part of, why did he then grab him and put himself in such a situation, did you not get?


your argument is full of wishful thinking, can't even believe you cant see it. Your entire argument stems from this notion that bones created space in order to not harm himself. which was not remotely hinted at or stated. what was hinted at however was that Bones clearly had an issue with red skull who he happen to delusionalyl associate himself as being, based of a reflection. Which then clearly bothered him. Sorry, but only ones of us is making up pretend context, to support there claim and it not me


Originally posted by Daredevil1
your a maniac to hold Steve in place with your hands and then blast him away and your own parts. But with your reasoning it wouldn't surprise me.


Why do you assume, he would shoot his own hands? Just because your holding some one, does not mean thats were you have to firer. Nothing maniac about it, your using distorted rational, to support your claims. The fact you assume the only way he can blast Capt is by shoot his self, which just belays your bias.

not to mention, third to last pannel

http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/896/tbolts1500035.th.jpg

Shows red skull grabbing capt head with his face aimed downward at capt neck as if to decapitate him, but then notices his reflection as shown right in the scan

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
What part of, why did he then grab him and put himself in such a situation, did you not get?


your argument is full of wishful thinking, can't even believe you cant see it. Your entire argument stems from this notion that bones created space in order to not harm himself. which was not remotely hinted at or stated. what was hinted at however was that Bones clearly had an issue with red skull who he happen to delusionalyl associate himself as being, based of a reflection. Which then clearly bothered him. Sorry, but only ones of us is making up pretend context, to support there claim and it not me




Why do you assume, he would shoot his own hands? Just because your holding some one, does not mean thats were you have to firer. Nothing maniac about it, your using distorted rational, to support your claims. The fact you assume the only way he can blast Capt is by shoot his self, which just belays your bias.

not to mention, third to last pannel

http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/896/tbolts1500035.th.jpg

Shows red skull grabbing capt head with his face aimed downward at capt neck as if to decapitate him, but then notices his reflection as shown right in the scan




Right but it was stated he was shooting his image right? Where is it?
So it was stated he got up to shoot his image? Where is it?

Wishful thinking indeed. Right so he can hold his face and not shoot himself? Now who's making up all this stuff to suit there scenario.

You know what it doesn't matter anyways even if there was no image it's not like you can prove he would have been able to shoot Cap anyways there. Since he couldn't and missed anyways...LOL

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO you got nothing. And I got he owned Bones. Doesn't even matter.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Wait wait so Hawkeye cant receive praises but Buck can?

When did I say this?

Said receiving training from capt and were a ninja costume does not translate into being match for bones in h2h.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Hawkeye can't use swords or nun-chucks but Buck can use a cyborg hands/guns/knives/sniper weapons...LOL. Double standard much huh.
How is this a double standard?

It h2h fight between bones and hawlk-eye, what relevence does weapons have?

also why are you goping on a spew about bucky weapons, which I never brought up at all, nor has relevance to h2h fight between hawlk eye and bones.





Originally posted by Daredevil1
again that's why I give it to Bones over Hawkeye.

Sorry but that thrashing he got from Buck twice just left me a bitter taste.
you give him .5 less. That far from fair or accurate based off hawlk eye showings, which you keep dodging. Were are these h2h showing that give him 4.5 out of ten against bones?



np, but still dont see the relevance. Bucky is much better fighter the hawlk eye.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
When did I say this?

Said receiving training from capt and were a ninja costume does not translate into being match for bones in h2h.


How is this a double standard?

It h2h fight between bones and hawlk-eye, what relevence does weapons have?

also why are you goping on a spew about bucky weapons, which I never brought up at all, nor has relevance to h2h fight between hawlk eye and bones.






you give him .5 less. That far from fair or accurate based off hawlk eye showings, which you keep dodging. Were are these h2h showing that give him 4.5 out of ten against bones?



np, but still dont see the relevance. Bucky is much better fighter the hawlk eye.


Better fighter with a friggin cyborg hand....LOL. Anyways Bucky is better then Bones with his cyborg hand that much is for sure. Bones to my knowledge has never even beaten Cap or who for that matter?

The closes one was his alternate version from Heroes Reborn(not the real Crossbones) that sneak attack with a tackle take down on Cap and defeated him. His Ronin h2h scenes and his training and experience with Bone's stock going down a bit. But Bones still wins of course.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Right but it was stated he was shooting his image right? Where is it?
So it was stated he got up to shoot his image? Where is it?

The art of dodging I see. Let see each other argument shall we.

Your arguement is that bones mid battle decided to kneel down behind capt and grab his head, only to then stand up in order to create space to not harm himself. Is that right? despite the fact this was not hinted or stated in the least. But you think that is clearly what occured?



Now lets see my argument. Bones who entire reason to fight capt was to assure that this time he stayed dead. So he kneeled behind him grabbed his head and was aiming his face to sever his neck. He then got distracted by the image of himself he mistakenly took for red skull, to the point we even see in the scan I posted that he moves his head from behind Cap, to beside him for better look, then precedes to stand up and blast said image while stating "im better the him" (red skull)


yea clearly I am the one, wishful thinking right



Originally posted by Daredevil1
thinking indeed. Right so he can hold his face and not shoot himself?
YES. What do you not grasp about that? Why on earth would you assume he has to blast the person right were his hands are holding on to them?



Originally posted by Daredevil1
Now who's making up all this stuff to suit there scenario.

YOU ARE.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
You know what it doesn't matter anyways even if there was no image it's not like you can prove he would have been able to shoot Cap anyways there. Since he couldn't and missed anyways...LOL

Except I could, since we see in the scan and I already stated which you ignored. That in the third to last pannel of the scan I posted, red skull had capt by the head behind him, with his face leveled at his neck. All he had to do was think shooting him and capt would be dead. Honestly dont get what is so hard about that.


Originally posted by Daredevil1
SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO you got nothing. And I got he owned Bones. Doesn't even matter.
I got a lot more then you. My arguement is based of both picture and text context. You on the other hand entire arguement comes from this silly notion, that bones can only blast people he holding were his hands are, and that he randomly stood up to create space to reframe from injury, despite that never been implied in the least. Also completely contradicts bones doing so in the first place. Which yet to answer at all. But keep on pretending your right,

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Better fighter with a friggin cyborg hand....LOL.
so now having a cyborg arm makes him less skilled?



Originally posted by Daredevil1
Bucky is better then Bones with his cyborg hand that much is for sure. Bones to my knowledge has never even beaten Cap or who for that matter?

Bucky also better then hawlkeye so again how is that relevant?


He given capt all hell in h2h before, which is more then hawlk-eye ever done.


Originally posted by Daredevil1
Ronin h2h scenes and his training and experience with Bone's stock going down a bit. But Bones still wins of course.
First were are these h2h scene? Because what your suggesting really does not exist.

Training and experience which is less then bones. great.


again why are you basing bones entire career off of two fights with the same character?

Crossbones isn't Wolverine please leave you Wolverine wanking for Wolverine related characters. Don't take you're stink and then add them to Captain America characters as well.

You're the Wolverine guys were the Caps guys, you've got enough Wolverine related characters to play with stop being greedy. In the Cap camp we like to interpret events as objectively as we possibly can, save that nonsense for Wolverine.

Originally posted by Deadline
Crossbones isn't Wolverine please leave you Wolverine wanking for Wolverine related characters. Don't take you're stink and then add them to Captain America characters as well.

Really not need for that, at all.



How on earth am I wanking bones?


Originally posted by Deadline
You're the Wolverine guys were the Caps guys, you've got enough Wolverine related characters to play with stop being greedy.

Why, you have to turn this into us vs you is beyond me. I read captain America and have hundreds if not in the thousands of comics with him in it.


Originally posted by Deadline
the Cap camp we like to interpret events as objectively as we possibly can, save that nonsense for Wolverine.

This is just . By objectively, you mean riddle with bias, then yes. Because there is nothing objective about what you are argueing. In fact quite clear that DD is ignoring context and providing his own, that not even remotely implied and pretending that how it is. Which is nonsense.


since you missed it here you got

not to mention, third to last pannel

http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/896/tbolts1500035.th.jpg

Shows red skull grabbing capt head with his face aimed downward at capt neck as if to decapitate him, but then notices his reflection as shown right in the scan



If Boens was not distracted by the image he saw in the lake, then riddle me this, why did he stand up and blast? why take kneel down in the first place and grab capt if he intention was to stand up and firer at him?

Not too sure how that Cap fight is relevant to Hawkeye vs Crossbones.

I've not seen much of Clint as Ronin, I just know he got an upgrade hand to hand fighting wise.

He tagged US Agent a few times way back in WCA although got owned in the end but he's never been without skill hand to hand, he's just not an A lister.

As for Bones, Cap himself has stated that Bones is a dangerous fighter and one of the best he's faced.

I don't see getting beaten down by a PO'd Bucky as that bad a showing, given all Bucky's experience and training plus that bionic arm of his.

Same with Logan unless we're saying that Hawkeye would fair any better against either combatant?

When Cap beat Bones without the SSS he had to fight dirty to win to make up for the edge he lost having no SSS in his body, which should really tell you how skilled an opponent Bones is.

As for this fight I would have to give Bones an edge over Clint unless someone can show me scans that show Clint is on the same level as Cap hand to hand or close to it?

Originally posted by BigSid
Not too sure how that Cap fight is relevant to Hawkeye vs Crossbones.

I've not seen much of Clint as Ronin, I just know he got an upgrade hand to hand fighting wise.

It was becuase of a fight between cross bones and capt being analyzed.



He did not receive an upgrade. In fact aside from using nun-chucks, I not sure he displayed anything beyond what he could do before. In fact he utilized mainly swords, which is far from a new skill set, he has been quite proficient with swords since being trained by swordsmen in the circus



Originally posted by BigSid
tagged US Agent a few times way back in WCA although got owned in the end but he's never been without skill hand to hand, he's just not an A lister.


To be honest, there really not evidence, that he even C lister or third tier fighter in terms of h2h combat.

Originally posted by BigSid
for Bones, Cap himself has stated that Bones is a dangerous fighter and one of the best he's faced.


I don't see getting beaten down by a PO'd Bucky as that bad a showing, given all Bucky's experience and training plus that bionic arm of his.

Same with Logan unless we're saying that Hawkeye would fair any better against either combatant?


so true.

Originally posted by BigSid
Cap beat Bones without the SSS he had to fight dirty to win to make up for the edge he lost having no SSS in his body, which should really tell you how skilled an opponent Bones is.
Yup, not to mention he was not some weaklining with out it. In fact he pretty much retainedhis abilities, and simply had to train more. Even then the decline for capt was extremely slow. Does anyone even know when capt fought bones and how long after losing his SSS?

Originally posted by BigSid
for this fight I would have to give Bones an edge over Clint unless someone can show me scans that show Clint is on the same level as Cap hand to hand or close to it?
He would not need to show capt level, because capt better then bones. But I get the point. He needs to at least show ability to hang with such individual in h2h combat, besides simply fighting cannon fodder.

Also, if not mistaken did not hawlk and bobi both imply she was better? and she not even that good.

Crossbones.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
It was becuase of a fight between cross bones and capt being analyzed.



He did not receive an upgrade. In fact aside from using nun-chucks, I not sure he displayed anything beyond what he could do before. In fact he utilized mainly swords, which is far from a new skill set, he has been quite proficient with swords since being trained by swordsmen in the circus





To be honest, there really not evidence, that he even C lister or third tier fighter in terms of h2h combat.



so true.


Yup, not to mention he was not some weaklining with out it. In fact he pretty much retainedhis abilities, and simply had to train more. Even then the decline for capt was extremely slow. Does anyone even know when capt fought bones and how long after losing his SSS?


He would not need to show capt level, because capt better then bones. But I get the point. He needs to at least show ability to hang with such individual in h2h combat, besides simply fighting cannon fodder.

Also, if not mistaken did not hawlk and bobi both imply she was better? and she not even that good.

Cap fought bones right after losing the SSS in the Streets of Poison arc, that fight was actually a good showing for Bones, he was taking it to Cap until Steve yanked his mask back over his eyes and punched him in the throat IIRC

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Really not need for that, at all.



How on earth am I wanking bones?




Why, you have to turn this into us vs you is beyond me. I read captain America and have hundreds if not in the thousands of comics with him in it.




This is just . By objectively, you mean riddle with bias, then yes. Because there is nothing objective about what you are argueing. In fact quite clear that DD is ignoring context and providing his own, that not even remotely implied and pretending that how it is. Which is nonsense.


since you missed it here you got

not to mention, third to last pannel

http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/896/tbolts1500035.th.jpg

Shows red skull grabbing capt head with his face aimed downward at capt neck as if to decapitate him, but then notices his reflection as shown right in the scan



If Boens was not distracted by the image he saw in the lake, then riddle me this, why did he stand up and blast? why take kneel down in the first place and grab capt if he intention was to stand up and firer at him?



LOL he could have blasted the image without even getting up. Seriously you got nothing.

And now you said he could have killed Cap?


Prove it. Show me him blasting Cap with the face beam in the end.

Cap outwitted and outsmarted him in the end. And drowned him in a pool just like your logic has been drowned.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
so now having a cyborg arm makes him less skilled?





Bucky also better then hawlkeye so again how is that relevant?


He given capt all hell in h2h before, which is more then hawlk-eye ever done.



First were are these h2h scene? Because what your suggesting really does not exist.

Training and experience which is less then bones. great.


again why are you basing bones entire career off of two fights with the same character?



You keep asking for Clint h2h scenes and again I ask you who has Bones really beaten as well? Besides circumstantial advantages on Cap, DD, the fight with Bullseye was so brief it was two panels and then he left. Bones did slit the throat of this nobody who wore green and like to use swords.

What big time names has Bones beaten as well? I still give Bones the edge, but lets see it.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
In the past vs Hawkeye I actually would have said Crossbones 7-8/10. But with Hawkeye's new push recently and with Bones looking terrible against Bucky two times there fights and Logan making him look like a stooge.

His stock has gone down a bit. Even Batroc did better against Bucky...yikes. But to be fair Bucky was ubber pissed since he thought that he killed Steve.

Damn Crossbones 5.5/10 and its a tough fight every damn time.

There were circumstances to almost every fight between Bones and Bucky.

Their first fight, he took a swan dive out of a hellicopter breaking his arm and fracturing his skull.
Their second fight, he was winning until Sin got in the way allowing Bucky to use his robotic arm to break some ribs.
Their third Bones shot Bucky and then beat the hell out of him.

They haven't had a single clear fight yet.

Originally posted by jinzin
There were circumstances to almost every fight between Bones and Bucky.

Their first fight, he took a swan dive out of a hellicopter breaking his arm and fracturing his skull.
Their second fight, he was winning until Sin got in the way allowing Bucky to use his robotic arm to break some ribs.
Their third Bones shot Bucky and then beat the hell out of him.

They haven't had a single clear fight yet.


Looked back at first fight its hard to tell if it was the fall or Bucky cyborg arm that gives him the injury, maybe both. As he does talk about his fracture in the rematch. But nothing about his arm being broken? But because the vagueness of it I will agree with you since its argumentative and won't count it as a clear win. So I was short changing Bones a bit because of this.


Second fight your right Bones had the advantage but Buck admitted he rushed in blindly and paid for it, as even with that advantage Buck had already recovered after the second hit and stated he would fix that and give him another fracture.

So I think Buck throwing her helped to re-start the fight from scratch and as it restarted Bones threw again the first punch.....Buck dodged and hit him good. Then that was pretty much was all she wrote, as Buck then picked him up by the throat and Bones was helpless, as Buck could have killed him had he wanted too. As it ended there with Buck turning his attention to Skull. So this one I definitely give the win to Bucky.


Third fight Bones did shot Buck from the back side(Buck is lucky his uniform is bullet proof even though he was hurt from it) as they continued to fight Bones did have the advantage because of it but even hurt Buck still got his licks in even stabbing Bones. Bones tossed him over a window and Bucky was lucky Blackwidows air car was in the way, to save him from a painful fall. Bones peaked out of the window and then Buck got even and shot him three times. Sigh this one your right I can't count because of Bones sneak attack shooting on Buck and Natalia's intervention. So I guess Buck only beat him once in my mind now instead of 2 clear cut wins.

I guess I'll change it to Bones 6/10 vs Clint and it wasn't completely as bad for Bones, as I had previously thought. From memory it seemed Bones got POWNED bad but that was my fault for not reviewing there encounters.

I still think Clints stock has risen lately especially with him defeating Cap recently even if he did it with the help of his weapons. Its how he mixes it with his h2h prowess and that is getting a bit short changed as well just because both Bones/Buck uses weapons as well IMO.

You know what I think I would give Bones the majority, but serioulsy what in hells name are you guys trying to do to Bones? Are you trying to argue hes top tier, or hes better than Cap? I noticed you Wolverine guys seem to have adopted him. I'm quite sure I read an issue were Cap beat both Red Skull and Crossbones.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Looked back at first fight its hard to tell if it was the fall or Bucky cyborg arm that gives him the injury, maybe both. As he does talk about his fracture in the rematch. But nothing about his arm being broken? But because the vagueness of it I will agree with you since its argumentative and won't count it as a clear win. So I was short changing Bones a bit because of this.
In the script they had for the book it makes mention of Bones having a broken arm but yeah looking at the fight it doesn't really show it.
I didn't know clint beat Cap recently. what?! when was that?

In the first fight I believe that Crossbones was unlucky he landed on his head, Bones mentions this in the second fight but still gets tooled.

Originally posted by jinzin
In the script they had for the book it makes mention of Bones having a broken arm but yeah looking at the fight it doesn't really show it.
I didn't know clint beat Cap recently. what?! when was that?


It was in Hawkeye blind spot 2 or 3 IIRC. But of course he has his arrows and Steve gives him mad props in the end.

Seriously after viewing what Clint did to Batro/Zaran in another encounter without his arrows. He really impressed me. He used his bow like a hitting weapon but Zaran and Batroc had weapons as well.

Pure h2h? Tough, I think Rumlow beats him more often than not, but it's close.