Gorilla Grodd vs Wolverine

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The Nuul
1. No mind powers of any kinda.

2. With mind powers.



Fight in Central park.

Who wins?

StiltmanFTW
Wolverine in both.

tideoftime
With mind powers, definitely Grodd; they aren't the make-or-break, in and of themselves, but coupled with Grodd's massive physical advantage in strength (and being at least fast/agile enough to keep pace -- something many people forget about: Grodd is actually relatively fast/agile, combat-wise, when he chooses to be), Grodd will take the clear majority on that scale.

Without any mental powers, it becomes more problematic: Logan would have to use his applied jobber-aura (which is one of his best powers, right after healing/recovery) to compensate for Grodd's strength/physical prowess, though Logan is a better fighter, and the claws can definitely give the gorilla the what-for (also, Logan's history of taking it to physically more powerful characters who "credibly" should beat is ass, truly is a power, almost up there with Captain America's). But if things were taken "evenly", I'd say Grodd at least splits -- Logan *has* to not let Grodd get his mitts on him, or it's over; he'll get pinned into unconsciousness.

Juk3n
Originally posted by tideoftime
(also, Logan's history of taking it to physically more powerful characters who "credibly" should beat is ass, truly is a power

logan was created to battle bricks, hulk infact..

food for thought.

StiltmanFTW
Talking gorillas seem to be his kryptonite though sad

King Castle
nonesense.

the gorilla kryptonite only appeared once in recent history.

back in the day Wolverine was manhandling a superhuman blue gorilla just fine that smacked around samson.

f$#%^ "Gorilla strong" BS

matter of fact a real gorilla strength only comes close to peak human in comics... facepalm2

StiltmanFTW
Did that gorilla talk?

King Castle
it roared and smelled like poop... embarrasment

Dum Dum Dugan
Why is tide assuming the mental powers will work? Wolverine does not have a level 9 tp blocker or anything........


also beast is agile and fast, but that ment shit when he fought a serous wolverine.

753
1. Wolverine stomps

2. Grodd can only win via TP, but I'd still give logan the majority.

StiltmanFTW
How good is Grodd's TP anyway?

Why didn't he use it to get rid of the Flash, mindrape Batman in Public Enemies, stop Nightwing from raping him...?

King Castle
well with Flash, flash thinks to fast for Grodds TP to control him for long or for illusions to take hold..

Flash tends to see through the mental illusion due to how fast his mind thinks and Grodds suggestions and illusions not being able to keep up.. its more of a nosense to flash.


with Dick Grodd did mind f$## him.. but it was to show him his worse fear and have him be tormented.. Dick was just to strong willed and knew it was an illusion..

grodds TP isnt actually telepathic control like Xavier, betsy, cable. its more like a mix between scarecrow/mysterio more often then not.

Konton
Grodd's tp is easily up there with Emma and Charles.

Wolverine's TP blocker hype won't cut it here.

Grodd wins 10/10 in the second scenario.

Strictly h2h, I'm not sure. Probably Wolverine, but Grodd can get wins.

Parmaniac
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
How good is Grodd's TP anyway?

Why didn't he use it to get rid of the Flash, mindrape Batman in Public Enemies, stop Nightwing from raping him...? Flash can outrun TP attacks, no joke, he did it in Blackest Night with Martian Manhunter. The rest is plot I guess, you could also ask why Supes isn't shitstomping the entire earth villains after a short vacation in the sun.

King Castle
Originally posted by Konton
Grodd's tp is easily up there with Emma and Charles.

Wolverine's TP blocker hype won't cut it here.

Grodd wins 10/10 in the second scenario.

Strictly h2h, I'm not sure. Probably Wolverine, but Grodd can get wins. why not?

it stopped some alien herald being from invading his mind like it did the rest of the avengers.

i dont see Grodds TP being anywhere near that lvl.

Dum Dum Dugan
Originally posted by Konton
Grodd's tp is easily up there with Emma and Charles.

Wolverine's TP blocker hype won't cut it here.

Grodd wins 10/10 in the second scenario.

Strictly h2h, I'm not sure. Probably Wolverine, but Grodd can get wins.
based on what?



hype? he blocked am cosmic level beings telepath with his "hype" TP blocker.......not to mention he no sold emma frost and cassandra nova telepath amoung many others.........(though wheldon never got the memo, but at least he admits he has no idea how to write wolverine)

chomperx9
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Wolverine in both. wolverine in both ? let me guess , Adamantium is now resistant to telepathy.

Dum Dum Dugan
Originally posted by chomperx9
wolverine in both ? let me guess , Adamantium is now resistant to telepathy.
No but level 9 tp blocker is, not to mention built up scar tissue barriers and animalistic nature is however.

King Castle
Originally posted by chomperx9
wolverine in both ? let me guess , Adamantium is now resistant to telepathy. only when it comes to proteus. wink

Konton
Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
based on what?



hype? he blocked am cosmic level beings telepath with his "hype" TP blocker.......not to mention he no sold emma frost and cassandra nova telepath amoung many others.........(though wheldon never got the memo, but at least he admits he has no idea how to write wolverine)

No sold Emma? Are we taking one incident into account here, or maybe Emma's long standing history of being able to do whatever she wants with Logan whenever she feels like it. She's outright stated that his "level 9" (already with arbitrarily never explained power rankings) psi blockers were inferior to her "level 10" telepathy. No idea what cosmic instance you're talking about, I'll look into it or whatever.

Getting back on topic, Grodd was ****ing with Swamp Thing and the like.

Parmaniac
What about his TK feats?

King Castle
well, if we take them into account a lot of ppl will yell PIS about Logan having them so we just dont bring it in. big grin

Parmaniac
TK not TP I was reffering to Grodd, I haven't read much about Grodd but read up and a few times actually seen TK feats. Once he was levitating and had some kind of "concussive aura" around him.

King Castle
Originally posted by Parmaniac
TK not TP I was reffering to Grodd, I haven't read much about Grodd but read up and a few times actually seen TK feats. Once he was levitating and had some kind of "concussive aura" around him. i know what you were saying and i responded with my comment of logan having some decent TK resistance and feats. wink
Originally posted by Konton
No sold Emma? Are we taking one incident into account here, or maybe Emma's long standing history of being able to do whatever she wants with Logan whenever she feels like it. She's outright stated that his "level 9" (already with arbitrarily never explained power rankings) psi blockers were inferior to her "level 10" telepathy. No idea what cosmic instance you're talking about, I'll look into it or whatever.

Getting back on topic, Grodd was ****ing with Swamp Thing and the like. here you go
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
And here are the scans!

Emeror None vs. Spider-Man and Luke Cage

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/7033/giantsizeavengers001030gm9.th.jpg http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/5001/giantsizeavengers001031yg1.th.jpg http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/1592/giantsizeavengers001032hs7.th.jpg http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/3125/giantsizeavengers001033ns7.th.jpg http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/7489/giantsizeavengers001034ao1.th.jpg

Wolverine saves the day! "level 9 psi-shielding", sounds impressive.

http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/8874/giantsizeavengers001035kt6.th.jpg http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/1269/giantsizeavengers001036ut1.th.jpg

B]

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Konton
No sold Emma? Are we taking one incident into account here, or maybe Emma's long standing history of being able to do whatever she wants with Logan whenever she feels like it. She's outright stated that his "level 9" (already with arbitrarily never explained power rankings) psi blockers were inferior to her "level 10" telepathy. No idea what cosmic instance you're talking about, I'll look into it or whatever.

Getting back on topic, Grodd was ****ing with Swamp Thing and the like.

BH is referring to Original Sin one-shot. She can take care of psi blockers, true. IF she goes all out, that is. Psychic scar tissue is the whole different story.

Always wanking female characters, eh?

Dum Dum Dugan
Originally posted by Konton
No sold Emma?



Are we taking one incident into account here, or maybe Emma's long standing history of being able to do whatever she wants with Logan whenever she feels like it.
I was stating what he had done, and I notice you say nothing about casandranova. I no trying to make this into Wolverine vs Emma, Emma gots him all day with telepathy. But he did show the ability to resist her during wolverine origins. But I do believe he can wistand many powerful telepaths and even prevent them from doing certain things to him, but they can without a doubt destroy his mind if they want to.

also only time emma showed the ability to make wolverine do what ever she wanted was during astonishing x-men, were author even stated he had no idea how to write wolverine and he doesent.

Also admitt that prior to his character development, though he showed tp resistences it was at much lower level then after. He has asside from wheldon run has shown rather good tp resistance from people like cassandra nova. I mean I can start posting tp resistant feats if needed.





Originally posted by Konton
outright stated that his "level 9" (already with arbitrarily never explained power rankings) psi blockers were inferior to her "level 10" telepathy. No idea what cosmic instance you're talking about, I'll look into it or whatever.

She also explained that it would make it so she have to destroy his brain or some such. Seems to me she have a hard time controlling him or really getting far into his head, but if she wanted she could simply destroy his mind.

Originally posted by Konton
No sold Emma?



Are we taking one incident into account here, or maybe Emma's long standing history of being able to do whatever she wants with Logan whenever she feels like it.
I was stating what he had done, and I notice you say nothing about casandranova. I no trying to make this into Wolverine vs Emma, Emma gots him all day with telepathy. But he did show the ability to resist her during wolverine origins. But I do believe he can wistand many powerful telepaths and even prevent them from doing certain things to him, but they can without a doubt destroy his mind if they want to.

also only time emma showed the ability to make wolverine do what ever she wanted was during astonishing x-men, were author even stated he had no idea how to write wolverine and he doesent.

Also admitt that prior to his character development, though he showed tp resistences it was at much lower level then after. He has asside from wheldon run has shown rather good tp resistance from people like cassandra nova. I mean I can start posting tp resistant feats if needed.





Originally posted by Konton
back on topic, Grodd was ****ing with Swamp Thing and the like.
when?

Konton
So... this random guy in a suit, with no previously established power levels, unleashes a vaguely described multi-directional pulse that didn't stun Wolverine- a character who wasn't even around or paid any attention to until he snuck up on whatsisface- and happened to drop "level 9" psi-shields comment in passing. uh, ok

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
when?


Swamp Thing Vol. 2 Annual #3 (1987)

I'll address the bulk of the other stuff in one go. I'm far from saying Wolverine isn't largely competent against telepathy. He's just not shutting out actively powerful telepaths of genius intellect like Grodd.

Prep-Man
Grodd if he gets all his powers.

Dum Dum Dugan
Originally posted by Konton


Swamp Thing Vol. 2 Annual #3 (1987)

I'll address the bulk of the other stuff in one go. I'm far from saying Wolverine isn't largely competent against telepathy. He's just not shutting out actively powerful telepaths of genius intellect like Grodd.
I thought swamp thing was a marvel character?


Fair enough, I have to see some feats from Grodd telepathy. I not certain either way how the fight would go, you very well could be right.

753
Man-thing is a marvel character. swamp-thing is DC's man-thing.

Parmaniac
Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
I thought swamp thing was a marvel character? That's Man-Thing, Swamp Thing is DC he's actually very very powerful, Galan made a respect thread.

King Castle
you know the whole thing with grodd is ppl like to pull feats from pre crisis rather then use current retcon character and his new established power levels..

even then ppl argue the retcons only effect popular characters and the universe itself but not moderate or low end characters an their feats.

honestly i havent seen anything special about current grodd..

Prep-Man
Geoff made Grodd into a powerful character. Get over it.

BruceSkywalker
Logan x 2

Prep-Man
Originally posted by Konton
Grodd's tp is easily up there with Emma and Charles.

Wolverine's TP blocker hype won't cut it here.

Grodd wins 10/10 in the second scenario.

Strictly h2h, I'm not sure. Probably Wolverine, but Grodd can get wins.

How is Grodd in Emma's league? And a prep style battle, Grodd takes this of course.

King Castle
the OP didnt give prep. erm

with prep i am sure grodd can subdue Logan with his TP amplifying tech and whatnot..

without it current Grodd doesnt have the TP feats to get past logan's defenses like TP blockers or even his emotional Rage barriers during battle...

the best gorilla grodd would do is psi bolt Logan and hope that stuns him long enough to take advantage of if logan doesnt shrug it off like he did emma's

Allankles
The problem with assuming Logan can stop Grodd's TP is that Logan has no active psionic abilities (this applies to characters with the same limitation).

I mean even if he has TP blockers, they are passive, as in they're not an active defense. So Grodd can essentially build up the psionic energy needed to bypass a stagnant defense.

Scenario 1 Wolverine would take it. It's a battle of attrition and Logan's obviously better equipped for a drawn out battle.

King Castle
Logan in mid battle has tanked Psi bolts for years not just emma's most recent psi bolt.

he has even resisted betsy's psi blades meant to disrupt his mental process more then once.

he has also bn able through sheer act of will to fight through psi grips and psi bolts from Psi - Borg.

i havent seen current grodd display the psi energy lvl to bypass logan and knock him out.

i mean classic grodd back in the day from the 60's and 80's whatever year the ape came out fighting barry when disbelief was the norm, grodd had the power to screw over logan now current version of him not so much.

Prep-Man
Grodd's TK/TP is too much. I was just pointing out how intelligent Grodd was, don't get your panties in a bunch.,

King Castle
Originally posted by Prep-Man
Grodd's TK/TP is too much. I was just pointing out how intelligent Grodd was, don't get your panties in a bunch., will you pls provide current feats for the current version of Gorilla Grodd to back up your comment?

Prep-Man
i've provided images before. But you don't accept them. sad

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by King Castle
Logan in mid battle has tanked Psi bolts for years not just emma's most recent psi bolt.

he has even resisted betsy's psi blades meant to disrupt his mental process more then once.

he has also bn able through sheer act of will to fight through psi grips and psi bolts from Psi - Borg.

i havent seen current grodd display the psi energy lvl to bypass logan and knock him out.

i mean classic grodd back in the day from the 60's and 80's whatever year the ape came out fighting barry when disbelief was the norm, grodd had the power to screw over logan now current version of him not so much.

Emma didn't psibolt him she telepathically tried to stop him in original sin and he didn't. She wasn't even trying to go all out. He attacked Scott to both of their surprise plus they both just got back from ripping Charles a new one. Emma got him in x4, hom and early on in wolverine origins. That's not including Astonishing X-men and
Emmas first appearance. The Uraniun got Logan recently too in the x- men atlas crossover.
Sorry about the capitals I'm using an touch.

King Castle
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Emma didn't psibolt him she telepathically tried to stop him in original sin and he didn't. She wasn't even trying to go all out. He attacked Scott to both of their surprise plus they both just got back from ripping Charles a new one. Emma got him in x4, hom and early on in wolverine origins. That's not including Astonishing X-men and
Emmas first appearance. The Uraniun got Logan recently too in the x- men atlas crossover.
Sorry about the capitals I'm using an touch. you are current my bad on the psi bolt and it being a telepathic command.
reading

anyways.... moving on...

Logan has also resisted Shiva's event trigger a basically a psi bolt but Wolverine not just a tanked it, it enraged him and still kept fighting.

also the time viper tried to control logan had him encased in a TK and she was having a hard time trying to mind control him his will power alone was keeping her at bay long before he had lvl 9 shielding.

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/2193/wolverine125willpowerta9.jpg

and his TP resistance goes waaaaay back when he 1st joined the X-men.. a lot of the writers who have started writing logan have eitehr forgotten his abilities or dont know the character which they are writing about.

b/c a lot of the newer stories ignore or dont emphasize logan's willpower anymore and brainwashing resistance and telepathic immunity as much as they used to.

Allankles
They're not emphasizing those things because in truth, without some kind of psionic abilities a character shouldn't be able to stop TP, unless they have some kind of implant that passively blocks TP or a device like Magneto's helmet.

King Castle
Originally posted by Allankles
They're not emphasizing those things because in truth, without some kind of psionic abilities a character shouldn't be able to stop TP, unless they have some kind of implant that passively blocks TP or a device like Magneto's helmet. you mean mental implants like the one's given to the Weapon X team by Aldo ferro to prevent not just them but others from accessing not just their memories but portions of their minds?

the same mental implants that took Xavier years to study map and only manage to lower a few of them?

or the MA training Logan received to prevent himself from broadcasting his thought and to keep ppl like jean and Psylocke from scanning or registering his mind?

wink

maybe his willpower isnt enough but combined with everything mention it sure increases the odds especially with his animal Rage which creates an intense emotional wall combining it with the level 9 and mental scarring a none high end TP user would be hard pressed to mind f#$ @ him.

753
Originally posted by Allankles
They're not emphasizing those things because in truth, without some kind of psionic abilities a character shouldn't be able to stop TP, unless they have some kind of implant that passively blocks TP or a device like Magneto's helmet. magneto's helmet is a very recent explanationtoo. he was simply good against TP, like Superman is without any explanation for that matter.

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by Allankles
They're not emphasizing those things because in truth, without some kind of psionic abilities a character shouldn't be able to stop TP, unless they have some kind of implant that passively blocks TP or a device like Magneto's helmet.

Well I was re-reading my issues of everything X-Men so far I'm up to the Champions era. The X-Men 2.0 (Including Phoenix) were taken out by Kali's mental powers (Marvel Team-Up Annual (1976). He resisted Oracles mental powers in Uncanny X-Men #107 (But then Phoenix was there and Oracle really didn't do anything to any of the X-Men in that fight) but is taken down by Emma Frost in X-Men #129.

He does have natural resistance though. Xavier and Phoenix taught the X-Men V2.0 to fight of telepathic attack. He has brain damage (scarred tissue) and he has been brainwashed over and over. At the moment, I believe the current take by the writers is that a high enough Telepathic user can take him down. Reiterated by the conversation he had with Emma Frost about Level 9/Level 10 blockers/telepathic users.

Allankles
Originally posted by King Castle
you mean mental implants like the one's given to the Weapon X team by Aldo ferro to prevent not just them but others from accessing not just their memories but portions of their minds?

the same mental implants that took Xavier years to study map and only manage to lower a few of them?

or the MA training Logan received to prevent himself from broadcasting his thought and to keep ppl like jean and Psylocke from scanning or registering his mind?

wink

maybe the his willpower isnt enough but combined with everything mention is sure increases the odds especially with his animal Rage will creates an intense emotional wall combing it with the level 9 and mental scarring a none high end TP user would be hard pressed to mind f#$ @ him.

I think they should stick with his implants, anything else just doesn't make sense. TP is TP. Will power, martial arts, discipline shouldn't come into it.

King Castle
for years it was explained as Magneto's sheer strength of will from fending off a combined psi attacks from Xavier and Jean and that his magnetic power being psionic in nature allowing him to be a latent telepath.

@753
but you are correct my good sir. thumb up

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by 753
magneto's helmet is a very recent explanationtoo. he was simply good against TP, like Superman is without any explanation for that matter.

Magneto was telepathic in his original incarnation and these powers even resurfaced during Byrnes Hidden Years and Secret Wars. Some writers said he mind controlled people via their blood others believed he actually had telepathy which he did portray in the first few issues of Uncanny. He was cited as the second most powerful mind after Charles initially.

Prep-Man
Originally posted by Allankles
They're not emphasizing those things because in truth, without some kind of psionic abilities a character shouldn't be able to stop TP, unless they have some kind of implant that passively blocks TP or a device like Magneto's helmet.

Yep, plus Grodd has more than TP. His TK is powerful to boot.

King Castle
Originally posted by Prep-Man
Yep, plus Grodd has more than TP. His TK is powerful to boot. can you clarify this statement with a year of the story arc, context and explanation of said feat?

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Well I was re-reading my issues of everything X-Men so far I'm up to the Champions era. The X-Men 2.0 (Including Phoenix) were taken out by Kali's mental powers (Marvel Team-Up Annual (1976). He resisted Oracles mental powers in Uncanny X-Men #107 (But then Phoenix was there and Oracle really didn't do anything to any of the X-Men in that fight) but is taken down by Emma Frost in X-Men #129.

He does have natural resistance though. Xavier and Phoenix taught the X-Men V2.0 to fight of telepathic attack. He has brain damage (scarred tissue) and he has been brainwashed over and over. At the moment, I believe the current take by the writers is that a high enough Telepathic user can take him down. Reiterated by the conversation he had with Emma Frost about Level 9/Level 10 blockers/telepathic users.

Also the X-Men V2.0 got mindwiped by the mutant Santa Claus in Marvel Holiday Special (1991).

Also a Sentinel that looked like Jean Grey hurt him with Psi-bolts. Though he went all animal instinct (Just smell etc) and gutted it. Uncanny X-Men #100.

Allankles
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Well I was re-reading my issues of everything X-Men so far I'm up to the Champions era. The X-Men 2.0 (Including Phoenix) were taken out by Kali's mental powers (Marvel Team-Up Annual (1976). He resisted Oracles mental powers in Uncanny X-Men #107 (But then Phoenix was there and Oracle really didn't do anything to any of the X-Men in that fight) but is taken down by Emma Frost in X-Men #129.

He does have natural resistance though. Xavier and Phoenix taught the X-Men V2.0 to fight of telepathic attack. He has brain damage (scarred tissue) and he has been brainwashed over and over. At the moment, I believe the current take by the writers is that a high enough Telepathic user can take him down. Reiterated by the conversation he had with Emma Frost about Level 9/Level 10 blockers/telepathic users.

Personally I don't see how there's any training you can do stop someone from forcefully taking over your mind, unless you have some psionic abilities which can be redirected to serve as a telepathic defense with training.

Anything outside of implants or devices (technological or magical) for non psionics like Wolverine doesn't add up. In the case of Magento even if he isn't a telepath he does have psionic abilities, so with training he can develop a resistance even without a device like his helmet.

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by Allankles
Personally I don't see how there's any training you can do stop someone from forcefully taking over your mind, unless you have some psionic abilities which can be redirected to serve as a telepathic defense with training.

Anything outside of implants or devices (technological or magical) for non psionics like Wolverine doesn't add up. In the case of Magento even if he isn't a telepath he does have psionic abilities, so with training he can develop a resistance even without a device like his helmet.

I think the training was to resist giving out information and fight for control over possession/mind control, which is really a battle of wills.

I don't think there's a training to resist frying someones mind though with the kind of psi-bolt that can hurt the physical realm eg. shatter a building.

Dum Dum Dugan
Originally posted by Allankles
Personally I don't see how there's any training you can do stop someone from forcefully taking over your mind, unless you have some psionic abilities which can be redirected to serve as a telepathic defense with training.

Anything outside of implants or devices (technological or magical) for non psionics like Wolverine doesn't add up. In the case of Magento even if he isn't a telepath he does have psionic abilities, so with training he can develop a resistance even without a device like his helmet.
well I disagree. Mental scaring which creates barrier to prevent excesses to inner thoughts is a very believable in my opinion as is being animalistic makes it difficult to reach the individual especially when they can pretty much shut off there higher functions of thought.

King Castle
Wolverine's empathic.. embarrasment

i just thought i throw that out there. wink

like some one we know.

SasuOna
Grodd fights the Flash and is able to tag him with his TP allowing him to predict his moves. He also has TK
Logan stands no chance in scenario 2 and in Scenario 1 baring him somehow overcoming the obvious difference in speed and strength he should take it 6/10 times.

Allankles
Originally posted by 753
magneto's helmet is a very recent explanationtoo. he was simply good against TP, like Superman is without any explanation for that matter.

Hmm! Superman does have psionics e.g. mental projections. I also think his body works through psionic manipulation.

Allankles
Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
well I disagree. Mental scaring which creates barrier to prevent excesses to inner thoughts is a very believable in my opinion as is being animalistic makes it difficult to reach the individual especially when they can pretty much shut off there higher functions of thought.

But what's the point of TP if I can't rifle through your brain at will? If Wolverine can't tangle with me at that psionic plane, his mind is mine for the taking (not unless he has some implants, technological or otherwise, to stop me).

Dum Dum Dugan
Originally posted by King Castle
Wolverine's empathic.. embarrasment

i just thought i throw that out there. wink

like some one we know.
This is actually true, he has shown empathic abilities, which are based off his animalistic side.

Parmaniac
Does anyone have some non pre-criss Telekinesis feats? Cause that's pretty much the only reason why I maybe would give him scenario 2, 1 clearly goes 10/10 to Wolverine.

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by Allankles
But what's the point of TP if I can't rifle through your brain at will? If Wolverine can't tangle with me at that psionic plane, his mind is mine for the taking (not unless he has some implants, technological or otherwise, to stop me).

I think it's more a matter of how orderly your brain is. Some people repress stuff so it'd be more difficult to locate. They can hide stuff through repression and even cause the person who is sifting through their head to experience unpleasant thoughts and feel nauseas.

Messing with their higher brain functions like switching off sections of their brain and physical mind blasts are another story:

http://img405.imageshack.us/i/generationx01817nd6.jpg/

Dum Dum Dugan
Originally posted by Allankles
But what's the point of TP if I can't rifle through your brain at will? If Wolverine can't tangle with me at that psionic plane, his mind is mine for the taking (not unless he has some implants, technological or otherwise, to stop me).
Because simply becuase you have tp does not make you auto win. His mind created barriers to protect his mind from intrusions, this is a stated ability. It is natural in stead of technological, but works similarly, it wall which blocks telepaths from entering.

His animalistic side make a lot of sense to, animal are far harder to control then people, his ability to shut off his higher functions which he also stated on pannel while combating casandra nova telepathy.

King Castle
Originally posted by Allankles
But what's the point of TP if I can't rifle through your brain at will? If Wolverine can't tangle with me at that psionic plane, his mind is mine for the taking (not unless he has some implants, technological or otherwise, to stop me). but he does. that's the point for the level 9 shielding. Weapon X implants, animal rage wall empathic feral ability and willpower.

the reason's why a demonic being called Ogun who operates on the astral plane and battled Jean was unable to inhabit his mind due to it being bestial and fractured.

Why Wolverine was able to battle Besty on the Astral plane and knock her on her but since the astral plane is based on an individuals willpower and ability to manipulate the plane.

and we have seen Wolverine tank and or immediately recover from Psi - bolts from Psi - Borg and Shiva's Event Trigger which was suppose to activate all his worse memories and synapses overloading his mind and ko'ing him or killing him due to combined pain of a life time on his body and mind. cool

Mindset
It's like writers intentionally try to make people hate Wolverine.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Mindset
It's like writers intentionally try to make people hate Spider-Man.

fix'd

Parmaniac
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
fix'd But it never works cause he's so awesome.

And soon upgarded too

King Castle
Originally posted by Parmaniac
Does anyone have some non pre-criss Telekinesis feats? Cause that's pretty much the only reason why I maybe would give him scenario 2, 1 clearly goes 10/10 to Wolverine. http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g86/islamicjew/sc009d72e1.jpg


he used his TK to slap Jay garrick with the pavement.

actually he tried to squish him crush him but, you know..
smile

Mindset
You seriously never stop thinking about Spiderman, do you?

Dum Dum Dugan
Originally posted by Mindset
It's like writers intentionally try to make people hate Wolverine.
because he has TP resistance?

Mindset
Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
because he has TP resistance? No and or, shut up.

Dum Dum Dugan
Originally posted by Mindset
No and or, shut up.
no need to be a little twit. simply asking a question about your statement.

Starscream M
Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
because he has TP resistance? because he gets magical upgrades that come for no rhyme or reason no expression

Mindset
Don't cry.

King Castle
Originally posted by Mindset
It's like writers intentionally try to make people hate Wolverine. b/c he has history and is a complicated character that most writers know nothing about when they write modern stories forgettin over 3o to 40 yrs of lore?

Dum Dum Dugan
Originally posted by Starscream M
because he gets magical upgrades that come for no rhyme or reason no expression
magically upgraded? This has been part of his character for a long time, just because you lack any sort of history of the character is why it might seem "magical" to you, but for anyone who knows his character, it pretty standard. He shown TP resistances for years upon years even decades. Not to mention the reasons were also given and stated......you just enjoy failing don't you?

Dum Dum Dugan
Originally posted by Mindset
Don't cry.
why would I cry, becuase your a twit?

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by King Castle
b/c he has history and is a complicated character that most writers no nothing about when they write modern stories forgettin over 3o to 40 yrs of lore?

Which initial incidents do you mean? If anything his original appearances showed him susceptible to telepathic attack of a certain caliber.

Empath (Upgraded) took him and Nightcrawler down in SFX Uncanny X-Men #502.
The Stepford Cuckoos Psi-Blinded everyone without them knowing (Including Phoenix Jean) - Phoenix Endsong.
Kid Omega telepathically took down Wolverine too in Morrisons run (Riot at Xavier's arc New X-Men 134?? I think it's the first issue).

Allankles
I say having TP should allow me to take over anyone without psionics or devices (implants etc). Having mental scars shouldn't stop me from taking over, shutting down your higher functions (at the conscious level) shouldn't stop me from - at the very least -invading whatever part of your mind I want. Without implants you have nothing psionic to stop me, you have no psionic barriers.

Wolvie has no psionic barriers, point blank, except whatever implants that were installed in his brain. So if said implants are out of the picture, a telepath should screw him over. Not unless Wolvie has unknown psionic abilities, which allow him to put up barriers.

Higher functions or lower functions you should be able to control him as a TP user. In fact being animalistic makes you easier to manipulate, simpler mind, simpler controls (sex, food, aggression etc are easier to use for manipulation, things an animal is hard wired to respond to).

753
Originally posted by Allankles
Hmm! Superman does have psionics e.g. mental projections. I also think his body works through psionic manipulation. Hum? What psionic powers does he have?

It was never stablished how it is that his powers work.

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by 753
Hum? What psionic powers does he have?

It was never stablished how it is that his powers work.

What happened to T-Vo??

King Castle
Originally posted by Starscream M
because he gets magical upgrades that come for no rhyme or reason no expression look at the art and how old looks this didnt magically come up. its actually the opposite new writers have magically and selectively magically removed it for certain stories without rhyme or reason.

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/3939/telepathsnd8.jpg

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/7501/mesmerozk9.jpg

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/7589/imperialandblast2ih4.jpg

a robotic double
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee113/wolverinerespectthread/Mental/UncannyX-Men10009Mental.jpg

ignores Betsy's mind control and backhands her
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/6725/roguebeatingpsylockegc3.jpg

Dum Dum Dugan
Originally posted by Allankles
I say having TP should allow me to take over anyone without psionics or devices (implants etc). Having mental scars shouldn't stop me from taking over, shutting down your higher functions (at the conscious level) shouldn't stop me from - at the very least -invading whatever part of your mind I want. Without implants you have nothing psionic to stop me, you have no psionic barriers.

Wolvie has no psionic barriers, point blank, except whatever implants that were installed in his brain. So if said implants are out of the picturem, a telepath should screw him over. Not unless Wolvie has unknown psionic abilities, which allow him to put up barriers.

Higher functions or lower functions you should be able to control him as a TP user. In fact being animalistic makes you easier to manipulate, simpler mind, simpler controls (sex, food aggression etc).
your opinion and I dont have the time or patients to argue with you over it.

Fact remains his animalistic side add to his telepathic resistences, as shown and stated on pannel.

Also as shown and stated on pannel his scaring of his mind are barrier naturally created by his body and healing factor to protect his mind from intrusion, as are implants left by weapon x.

So you can have this opinion all you want, but the fact remains both those abilities are very much real in marvel and very much are abilities wolverine posses, weather you like them or not. Your version of how powerful telepaths should be is very different then many others including mine and writers it seems.

Mindset
Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
why would I cry, becuase your a twit? I don't know why you're crying, that's why I'm telling you to stop.

753
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
What happened to T-Vo?? Forgotten never to be mentioned again as I understand it. But T-vo was introduced long after SM had an established TP resistence, just like Magneto's helmet, and it's more of a discipline than a superpower on its own, right?

Edit: more to the point, it is as plausible that SM is immune to TP thanks to his kryptonian yoga tricks as it is that some human who was trained to resist TP, like logan and most of Xavier's students, can shrug it off too.

Dum Dum Dugan
Originally posted by Mindset
I don't know why you're crying, that's why I'm telling you to stop.
I think you may be projecting my twitty little friend, for I am fine, and believe that it may be you who is crying.

King Castle
Originally posted by Allankles
I say having TP should allow me to take over anyone without psionics or devices (implants etc). Having mental scars shouldn't stop me from taking over, shutting down your higher functions (at the conscious level) shouldn't stop me from - at the very least -invading whatever part of your mind I want. Without implants you have nothing psionic to stop me, you have no psionic barriers.

Wolvie has no psionic barriers, point blank, except whatever implants that were installed in his brain. So if said implants are out of the picture, a telepath should screw him over. Not unless Wolvie has unknown psionic abilities, which allow him to put up barriers.

Higher functions or lower functions you should be able to control him as a TP user. In fact being animalistic makes you easier to manipulate, simpler mind, simpler controls (sex, food, aggression etc are easier to use for manipulation, things an animal is hard wired to respond to). again he does.. his mental implants were never fully removed by Xavier he only lowered a few to peek and see what was behind them,.... and logan does possess certain psionic abilities which i know would piss ppl off if i started labeling his psionic feats and his history of resisting telepathic intrusion and mind control should be enough for you rather then ignoring them.

you must prove that Grodd has equal or superior powers to Emma frost or his Psi-bolts are equal or superior to Psi-borg or shiva's.

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by 753
Forgotten never to be mentioned again as I understand it. But T-vo was introduced long after SM had an established TP resistence, just like Magneto's helmet, and it's more of a discipline than a superpower on its own, right?

Don't know. Someone tried to explain T-vo to me years ago and I never got it. I'm told it's mix of magic and telepathy.

Konton
If Wolverine's healing factor is so awesome, how come he has brain scarring?

shifty

Mindset
Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
I think you may be projecting my twitty little friend, for I am fine, and believe that it may be you who is crying. Did you just learn what twit means, my tearful amigo?

King Castle
anyways....... moving on to superman.

kryptonians are suppose to be latent telepaths back in the day and part of their cultural history.

although, their telepathy is low end they did have telepathic mental exercises to strengthen the mind and even to control their battle armor which required a certain mental frequency and low end Tp to use.

Superman used his low end TP to operate his battle suit when he came back in black after Doomsday killed him.

Dum Dum Dugan
Originally posted by Mindset
Did you just learn what twit means, my tearful amigo?
no, it just seemed like a fitting word for you. I think the english have the right idea, the word twit, is awesome.

Mindset
Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
no, it just seemed like a fitting word for you. I think the english have the right idea, the word twit, is awesome. Well I'm glad you're happy, the tears may soon stop.

Parmaniac
Originally posted by Konton
If Wolverine's healing factor is so awesome, how come he has brain scarring?

shifty That's actually something I really asked myself, or is it just a wrong term used for what actually is the case?

ExodusCloak
Anyway back on topic, Wolverine has resistance to telepathy. I guess there's no denying that. Whether people like it or not or think it's right or wrong...we can't do anything about it, it is established.

So I guess the next logical step would be to prove whether or not Current Gorilla Grodd is powerful enough to overcome Wolverine's defenses/resistances.

So one needs to provide feats for Post-Crisis Grodd to show that he is a high end telepathic user.

King Castle
Originally posted by Konton
If Wolverine's healing factor is so awesome, how come he has brain scarring?

shifty it's psychic scarring not physical brain scarring...kinda how some one can be scarred emotionally or have their soul weaken or strengthen kinda thing.http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/561/xmos1oroborosdcp012qk2.jpg

753
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Don't know. Someone tried to explain T-vo to me years ago and I never got it. I'm told it's mix of magic and telepathy. As I understand it, it's some kryptonian esoteric discipline that lets one focus one's mental energy to do some crap through the astral plane or whatever. They get TP resistance and might interact with others in psi battle, etc. Point is that it's an apparently learned gimmick, similar to moondragon's TP acquired through training.

Parmaniac
Both of you are meschugge

Starscream M
Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
magically upgraded? This has been part of his character for a long time, just because you lack any sort of history of the character is why it might seem "magical" to you, but for anyone who knows his character, it pretty standard. He shown TP resistances for years upon years even decades. Not to mention the reasons were also given and stated......you just enjoy failing don't you? lol

so wolverine was always the right hand of god

wolverine always could tank a nuke

wolverine always could heal in a vat of molten lava

wolverine was always resistant to tp

etcetc

everytime I talk to you...wolverine gets a new power or upgrade

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by 753
As I understand it, it's some kryptonian esoteric discipline that lets one focus one's mental energy to do some crap through the astral plane or whatever. They get TP resistance and might interact with others in psi battle, etc. Point is that it's an apparently learned gimmick, similar to moondragon's TP acquired through training.

Is that all it does? So does it also negate the opponents powers or something? People were using it in crazy ways years ago.

Dum Dum Dugan
Originally posted by Mindset
Well I'm glad you're happy, the tears may soon stop.
oh, so you cry because you believe me to be sad? worry not my friend for I am not sad, though slightly overwhelmed, but perhaps you need a tissue to dry your tears?

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by King Castle
look at the art and how old looks this didnt magically come up. its actually the opposite new writers have magically and selectively magically removed it for certain stories without rhyme or reason.

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/3939/telepathsnd8.jpg

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/7501/mesmerozk9.jpg

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/7589/imperialandblast2ih4.jpg

a robotic double
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee113/wolverinerespectthread/Mental/UncannyX-Men10009Mental.jpg

ignores Betsy's mind control and backhands her
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/6725/roguebeatingpsylockegc3.jpg

Great post. Completely forgot about that telepath from the Imperial Guard.

Parmaniac
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Great post. Completely forgot about that telepath from the Imperial Guard. Thanks I appreciate it

753
Originally posted by Parmaniac
Both of you are meschugge I shall google what that means and then there'll be a reckoning.

Dum Dum Dugan
Originally posted by Starscream M
lol

so wolverine was always the right hand of god

wolverine always could tank a nuke

wolverine always could heal in a vat of molten lava

wolverine was always resistant to tp

etcetc

everytime I talk to you...wolverine gets a new power or upgrade
we were discussing tp resistance's but now you wish to bring up red herrings, how wonderful.

since his first mini


since warrior 2


that was jsut stupid

pretty much since he became an x-men, have you looked at how old some of those scans are?


No, it just I have to keep explain establish powers of his, becuase you remain woefully ignorant.

Parmaniac
Originally posted by 753
I shall google what that means and then there'll be a reckoning. It's hebrew/jiddish it means crazy I was reffering to Mindset and Dum Dum though. wink

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Parmaniac
Thanks I appreciate it

Sock account! Reported! haw-som

753
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Is that all it does? So does it also negate the opponents powers or something? People were using it in crazy ways years ago. I think there was some hyperbole about limitless potential, the user defining his own internal reality or whatever. Now that I think about it, I think SM did project hallucinations into the erradicators head like allankles said.

Starscream M
Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
we were discussing tp resistance's but now you wish to bring up red herrings, how wonderful.

since his first mini


since warrior 2


that was jsut stupid

pretty much since he became an x-men, have you looked at how old some of those scans are?


No, it just I have to keep explain establish powers of his, becuase you remain woefully ignorant. no red herrings...since I'm pointing out that wolverine today is vastly more powerful than he was even 10 years ago...his hf feats border on the ridiculous

and they keep adding new things to his origin that border on the ridiculous...ie him battling an angel everytime he dies hence his immortality lol

he used to be just a hairy runt with anger issues

now he is like some messiah figure

King Castle
Originally posted by Starscream M
lol

so wolverine was always the right hand of god

wolverine always could tank a nuke

wolverine always could heal in a vat of molten lava

wolverine was always resistant to tp

etcetc

everytime I talk to you...wolverine gets a new power or upgrade stop baiting ppl.. erm

1) yes, logan should early in his career to be a champion of god

2) no, he could not always tank a nuke and its retarded. that is a retcon of the character by modern writers. and by tanking he still get's ko'ed temp killed and overall f#@#ed.

3) again no look ^

4) yes, wolverine was always Tp resistant from early classic Xavier, Jean, Betsy, Mesmeor... even able to see through illusions like mastermind father and daughter.

Omega Vision
Didn't Gorilla Man recently kick Wolvy's ass? ha-som

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by 753
I think there was some hyperbole about limitless potential, the user defining his own internal reality or whatever. Now that I think about it, I think SM did project hallucinations into the erradicators head like allankles said.

Right, well that's sounds unworkable from a story perspective. Best left a lone I guess.

Dum Dum Dugan
Originally posted by Starscream M
no red herrings...since I'm pointing out that wolverine today is vastly more powerful than he was even 10 years ago...his hf feats border on the ridiculous

and they keep adding new things to his origin that border on the ridiculous...ie him battling an angel everytime he dies hence his immortality lol

he used to be just a hairy runt with anger issues

now he is like some messiah figure
yes they are red herrings, becuase we were discussing tp resistance......

most of marvel hero's get upgraded over the years, trying to pretend this only happens to wolverine is absurd.

Not really, you just find things out and pretend there new when in fact they been part of his character for over a decade. Nice example.....except that power was taken away the same friggin issue it was revealed.......and it in no way shape or form made him more formiable.

no, that is just your ignorant simplistic view on a character you have veritually not knowledge of.

I assume you refferring to the hand of god refferences......which has been part of his character since his first mini........happen over two decades ago......

Mindset
Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
oh, so you cry because you believe me to be sad? worry not my friend for I am not sad, though slightly overwhelmed, but perhaps you need a tissue to dry your tears? U sad

Konton

Starscream M
Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan

most of marvel hero's get upgraded over the years cap america, punisher, dd, none of them got any upgrades

Dum Dum Dugan
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Anyway back on topic, Wolverine has resistance to telepathy. I guess there's no denying that. Whether people like it or not or think it's right or wrong...we can't do anything about it, it is established.

So I guess the next logical step would be to prove whether or not Current Gorilla Grodd is powerful enough to overcome Wolverine's defenses/resistances.

So one needs to provide feats for Post-Crisis Grodd to show that he is a high end telepathic user.
agreed.

ExodusCloak

Starscream M
anyways, since logan is resistant to tp, he massacres gorilla grodd

grodd is phucked

Dum Dum Dugan
Originally posted by Starscream M
cap america, punisher, dd, none of them got any upgrades
punisher became a superhuman monster for a while.....DD became a demon.......nice examples there.........


then you have IF, spiderman,iceman, psylocke ect.

Allankles
Originally posted by 753
Hum? What psionic powers does he have?

It was never stablished how it is that his powers work.

Well, in a relatively recent OMAC story he was shown projecting a psionic avatar to communicate over long distances.

Starscream M
Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
punisher became a superhuman monster for a while.....DD became a demon.......nice examples there.........


then you have IF, spiderman,iceman, psylocke ect. those were all due to extenuating circumstances and usually temporary

they didn't become inherently more powerful

anyways, as I said, logan rapes grodd in this fight

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Starscream M
cap america, punisher, dd, none of them got any upgrades

Fail.


Cap is more superhuman than before.

Punisher became freakin Frankencastle...

DD got a Karnak-esque ability to sense weak points in the objects.

King Castle

Dum Dum Dugan
Originally posted by Starscream M
those were all due to extenuating circumstances and usually temporary

they didn't become inherently more powerful

anyways, as I said, logan rapes grodd in this fight
they were all upgrades.


yes they did, but punisher got lucky and the stone restored his original body and DD was killed.



I don't really care who wins, it more fun for me to watch you make an ass of your self.

Starscream M
Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan

I don't really care who wins, it more fun for me to watch you make an ass of your self. go look in the mirror if you want to see a world class clown!

King Castle
Originally posted by Allankles
Well in a relatively recent OMAC story he has been shown projecting a psionic avatar to communicate over long distances. pfff.....

Wolverine contacted Emma Frost telepathically by concentrating and projecting a telephone number for her to call him through from Japan to the Xavier institute if i recall correctly and it isnt the 1st time he done that just the most recent one at the top of my mind. big grin

Konton

Dum Dum Dugan
Originally posted by Starscream M
go look in the mirror if you want to see a world class clown!
coming from you thats laughing.

also remember you still got to battlezone me in a month, and the ass whooping you are going to recieve.

Starscream M
Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan


also remember you still got to battlezone me in a month, and the ass whooping you are going to recieve. yes...was it colosus vs logan?

Dum Dum Dugan
Originally posted by Starscream M
yes...was it colosus vs logan?
yup.

Omega Vision
Originally posted by Konton

Given that they're ignoring you it can only mean that either you're really boring or they don't have a retort.

Allankles
Originally posted by King Castle
pfff.....

Wolverine contacted Emma Frost through telepathically by concentrating and projecting a telephone number for her to call him through from Japan to the Xavier institute if i recall correctly and it isnt the 1st time he done that just the most recent one at the top of my mind. big grin

http://d.imagehost.org/t/0035/Supermanprojecction.jpg http://d.imagehost.org/t/0544/Supermanprojecction2.jpg

Like this? eek!

King Castle
and all missing telepathic resistance mental block and training.. a beserker emotional mind is harder to control then an animal unaware of the impending mental manipulation.

the only similar thing they have with Wolverine is that they have basic animal instincts not his mental implants, mental scarring, mental training or lvl 9 psi blocks or even them being enraged with berseker fury..


erm

impressive that Gorilla Grodd ape link allowed him to manipulate his fellow apes, as impressive as Lizards and vermin's own TP but how that working similarly to logan doesnt translate the same to manipulating Wolverine.

nice attempt to slip the ape link passed us.

King Castle
Originally posted by Allankles
http://d.imagehost.org/t/0035/Supermanprojecction.jpg

Like this? eek! damn, that Krptonian.. Damn him all to hell!!!

is there nothing he cant do?!jr_shakefist


nah, the closest Wolverine has done is projecting emotional psionic waves visible to the human eye while psychically battling the Token a forest spirit.

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by Allankles
http://d.imagehost.org/t/0035/Supermanprojecction.jpg http://d.imagehost.org/t/0544/Supermanprojecction2.jpg

Like this? eek!

Here's the one he was talking about:

Originally posted by nikbackm

Who needs Google?

Wolverine: Origins #6

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/6615/wolverineorigins6emmaph.th.jpg

Seems pretty impressive, well, assuming Wolverine hasn't developed his own telepathy.

Apparently any X-Man can just concentrate hard, and then Emma calls back (if you stand next to phone) and answers any questions.
Without you even having to state them out loud, she will know what you want already. big grin

(The person Wolverine was looking for was Maverick, and yes, he was where she said)

Starscream M
Originally posted by King Castle



nah, the closest Wolverine has done is projecting emotional psionic waves visible to the human eye while psychically battling the Token a forest spirit. this sentence is quite hilarious for some reason laughing out loud

Parmaniac
Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
yup. You guys found some judges?

King Castle
he did it twice in that story arc the second time was when he was standing outside the japanese private club.. when he was being followed by the shield agents.. after his talk with emma he went inside to the bathroom changed clothes and went underground losing his tail.

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by King Castle
he did it twice in that story arc the second time was when he was standing outside the japanese private club.. when he was being followed by the shield agents.. after his talk with emma he went inside to the bathroom changed clothes and went underground losing his tail.

Here's another one...well not exactly. She should start charging.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Airport Assistance

Claws #1
(October 2006)
(Writer: Jimmy Palmiotti, Artist: Joseph Michael Linsner


http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/6670/claws01page08er3.th.jpghttp://img101.imageshack.us/img101/63/claws01page09rh2.th.jpg

Claws #3
(December 2006)
(Writer: Jimmy Palmiotti, Artist: Joseph Michael Linsner


http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/8004/claws200603page16jq4.th.jpghttp://img516.imageshack.us/img516/2114/claws200603page17lt8.th.jpg

King Castle
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Here's another one...well not exactly. She should start charging. that one is okay but the one i referenced had narration specifically stating what logan was doing so ppl cant misconstrued his concentration for constipation.
but that one is okay.

also logan's empathic ability/nature has allowed him to pick up the pain of his team members psionic pain or fear... even jubilee has a link to wolverine allowing her to feel Logan's pain resistance caused by Jean grey's psionic feedback strengthening logan's/Jubilee link who was in the room no one but jubes felt it even though ppl were in the room.

nice edit exodus no way ppl can say he didnt do that.

Konton
Originally posted by King Castle
and all missing telepathic resistance mental block and training.. a beserker emotional mind is harder to control then an animal unaware of the impending mental manipulation.

the only similar thing they have with Wolverine is that they have basic animal instincts not his mental implants, mental scarring, mental training or lvl 9 psi blocks or even them being enraged with berseker fury..


erm

impressive that Gorilla Grodd ape link allowed him to manipulate his fellow apes, as impressive as Lizards and vermin's own TP but how that working similarly to logan doesnt translate the same to manipulating Wolverine.

nice attempt to slip the ape link passed us.

The fact that they are apes has nothing to do with it. Controlling local apes wasn't the exciting part. I guess you missed the names I dropped in my post. They are all highly developed, sentient beings with high levels of intelligence and Grodd summoned them from opposite ends of the globe simultaneously while also incapacitating SWAMP THING.

Credit to Galan for the scans. Swamp Thing's mind and cognition are limited by his imagination. His conscious can expand and permeate throughout the universe on a whim. If Grodd can manipulate the spiritual embodiment of all plantlife, he shouldn't have a problem with Logan.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj172/galan007_pics/mind1.jpg
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj172/galan007_pics/mind2.jpg
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj172/galan007_pics/mind3.jpg
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj172/galan007_pics/mind4.jpg
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj172/galan007_pics/mind5.jpg
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj172/galan007_pics/mind6.jpg
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj172/galan007_pics/mind7.jpg
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj172/galan007_pics/mind8.jpg
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj172/galan007_pics/mind9.jpg
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj172/galan007_pics/mind10.jpg
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj172/galan007_pics/mind11.jpg

King Castle
and you pulled an old school feat, which i already stated old school grodd would screw logan over.

having said that i also said that the current depiction of grodd wouldnt b/c his power lvl is no longer depicted that high.

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by King Castle
that one is okay but the one i referenced had narration specifically stating what logan was doing so ppl cant misconstrued his concentration for constipation.
but that one is okay.

also logan's empathic ability/nature has allowed him to pick up the pain of his team members psionic pain or fear... even jubilee has a link to wolverine allowing her to feel Logan's pain resistance caused by Jean creating a psionic feedback linking Jubilee who was in the room and no one else.

nice edit exodus no way ppl can say he didnt do that.

Do you know that costume Wolverine stole off the Imperial Guard member Fang in Uncanny X-Men #107? Is there an explanation as to why he kept it (Iron First v1 #14) apart from Claremont just being weird? And to make it worse, X-23 went on to use that costume (Uncanny X-Men #450).

King Castle
it was given to him as an honorary member of their feral race for being a bad@$$ warrior. irrc.

X-23 wearing made absolutely no sense.. she shouldnt have known about it period. that's basically was a writer decision imo.. same way writers choose the write the batsuit.

Konton
It's not like these power levels aren't in continuity. He's continually given J'onn trouble and trumped Aquaman's tp with ease (happened pre-crisis, but was referenced in a flashback post-crisis).

I'm not really sure what omnipotent entity Grodd had to defeat yesterday in order to be able to take on the almighty Wolverine.

Allankles
Originally posted by Konton
I'm not really sure what omnipotent entity Grodd had to defeat yesterday in order to be able to take on the almighty Wolverine.

stick out tongue

King Castle
Originally posted by Konton
It's not like these power levels aren't in continuity. He's continually given J'onn trouble and trumped Aquaman's tp with ease (happened pre-crisis, but was referenced in a flashback post-crisis).

I'm not really sure what omnipotent entity Grodd had to defeat yesterday in order to be able to take on the almighty Wolverine. none, if the character was consistent they can reference whatever they want. some reference the DC/MU crossover it doesnt make cannon.. marvel has reference house of M doesnt mean the character depiction is accurate..

you want to prove Grodd is the same as he was prior to the universal retcons to the DCU have him repeat the feat and show equal power lvl and battling someone like Martian Manhunter in telepathic battle.. not telepathically attack him by surprise but out right challenge someone of his lvl..

hard to do since he is dead maybe maxima DCU characters are so Skewed and inconsistent that Aquaman's powers to control the person's fish brain is not the same as Xavier or X-man or emma frost telephathically controlling a person making see things fending off otehr TP'ers.

the attempt to use Aquaman to accredit Grodd is vague b/c AM mental defenses and abilities are not legit telepathy.

yes, AM can bypass certain telepath and cause pain seizures doesnt mean he can battle on the astral plane with the likes of Manchester black or access his memories turn him into a vegetable mind wipe him. hell, Gypsy has better overall legitimate telepathy then grodd and AM..

again you have to show the recent character at least within the 90's to now of grodds replicating and equaling Emma's power level..

logan doesnt have to do this since marvel doesnt retcon its history or screws character power lvl as bad as DCU and even then we provide past present feats overlapping one another to make a case for him to show his feats from the 80's match the 90's and even today.


so far the current grodd has psi bolted Flash which he recovered immediately only knocking him on his @$$... telepathically instilled fear in nightwing and mental illusion during battle and also randomly broadcasted rage fear to ppl..

that really isnt that impressive for the modern almight grodd. nor equal to his classic power lvl.


have you noticed when a character undergoes changes without explanation and are written differently for years we differantiate between classic version of the character and how he is currently written?

which is why we say classic Thor or Classic Hulk or Classic Herc or Classic jugg or Classic etc etc...

Konton
Originally posted by King Castle
none, if the character was consistent they can reference whatever they want. some reference the DC/MU crossover it doesnt make cannon.. marvel has reference house of M doesnt mean the character depiction is accurate..

you want to prove Grodd is the same as he was prior to the universal retcons to the DCU have him repeat the feat and show equal power lvl and battling someone like Martian Manhunter in telepathic battle.. not telepathically attack him by surprise but out right challenge someone of his lvl..

hard to do since he is dead maybe maxima DCU characters are so Skewed and inconsistent that Aquaman's powers to control the person's fish brain is not the same as Xavier or X-man or emma frost telephathically controlling a person making see things fending off otehr TP'ers.

the attempt to use Aquaman to accredit Grodd is vague b/c AM mental defenses and abilities are not legit telepathy.

yes, AM can bypass certain telepath and cause pain seizures doesnt mean he can battle on the astral plane with the likes of Manchester black or access his memories turn him into a vegetable mind wipe him. hell, Gypsy has better overall legitimate telepathy then grodd and AM..

again you have to show the recent character at least within the 90's to now of grodds replicating and equaling Emma's power level..

logan doesnt have to do this since marvel doesnt retcon its history or screws character power lvl as bad as DCU and even then we provide past present feats overlapping one another to make a case for him to show his feats from the 80's match the 90's and even today.


so far the current grodd has psi bolted Flash which he recovered immediately only knocking him on his @$$... telepathically instilled fear in nightwing and mental illusion during battle and also randomly broadcasted rage fear to ppl..

that really isnt that impressive for the modern almight grodd. nor equal to his classic power lvl.


have you noticed when a character undergoes changes without explanation and are written differently for years we differantiate between classic version of the character and how he is currently written?

which is why we say classic Thor or Classic Hulk or Classic Herc or Classic jugg or Classic etc etc...

I can't... I can't even.
Marvel doesn't retcon? wha-?
Gypsy has better tp than Grod?
I'm going over to comicvine to find some sensible conversation.

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