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A thought occured to me yesterday; it is easy to populate the "Elder God" tier with characters and its easy to populate the "Abstract/High End Cosmic" tier with characters, but not so easy to do with the "Cube Being" tier...

It appears to me that not many characters fit into that mid point between Elder God and Abstract very well, but since it is clear that there is a mid between the above tiers, the Cube Being tier must be populated as well...

So here is the task for you all; pick atleast 2 characters for each of the 3 levels of power in the Cube Being tier (low, mid, high), but make sure that atleast one of them is not an actual Cube Being in each of the 3 levels...

I'll go 1st...


Cube Being
Low: The Maker (only if the Beyonders personality is in control), Molecule Man.
Mid: The Shaper of Worlds, Peak Ion.
High: Kubik, 2000ft Asgardian Destroyer.


Now I am certain that we will not all agree on who belongs in what tier...thus healthy debate on who goes where is encouraged.

Thanks for your time!

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
A thought occured to me yesterday; it is easy to populate the "Elder God" tier with characters and its easy to populate the "Abstract/High End Cosmic" tier with characters, but not so easy to do with the "Cube Being" tier...

It appears to me that not many characters fit into that mid point between Elder God and Abstract very well, but since it is clear that there is a mid between the above tiers, the Cube Being tier must be populated as well...

So here is the task for you all; pick atleast 2 characters for each of the 3 levels of power in the Cube Being tier (low, mid, high), but make sure that atleast one of them is not an actual Cube Being in each of the 3 levels...

I'll go 1st...


Cube Being
Low: The Maker (only if the Beyonders personality is in control), Molecule Man.
Mid: The Shaper of Worlds, Peak Ion.
High: Kubik, 2000ft Asgardian Destroyer.


Now I am certain that we will not all agree on who belongs in what tier...thus healthy debate on who goes where is encouraged.

Thanks for your time!



Wouldn't the Asgardian Destroyer be more on the high end of the Elder God power level spectrum? I mean, it's all power while lacking high end reality warping abilities. Perhaps the Phoenix, at certain levels would be more on the level of a high end Cube being? Anyways these immensely powerful cosmic beings have always stomped me.

Peak Ion would be above it.And Post retcon MM would be above it.

And Maker and Shaper and Kubik are all cube beings aren't they?

Molecule Man is definitely far more powerful than Kubik, likely higher than the Cube being tier as a whole...

no, kubic beat both post molecule man and beyonder

where would you guys rank
those who sit above in shadow
dormammu
umar
aegis
cyttorak
walker
PC darksied

Hey LoM

I've always read "Cube Tier Beings" as reality warpers.

Low : Any "half" cube beings. Like Post Retcon Beyonder before he merged with MM to become Kosmos/Maker/whatever he is now
Mid : Any full Cube Being - Kubik, Shaper of Worlds, Kosmos, etc...
High : Molecule Man Unleashed (don't ask)

Non Cube Beings like Chthon that have reality warping powers would be Low to Mid depending on how the writers were handling them. Eternity told Hank Pym he saved him from the threat of Chthon. So read into that what you will.

There are also Herald level reality warpers like Glorian.

Then you have omega level Gods like the Scarlet Witch or Mad Jim Jaspers. They have reality warping powers in excess of any Cosmic Cube but I guess they'd be God Tier and not Cube Tier.

Asgardian Destroyer as High Cube? I'd place him Mid at best. I can see Kubik or other Full Cube Beings owning it badly. But I could be wrong.

Other Mid to High nominations :
Aegis
Teneberous
Galactus
certain Watchers (see Ecce)

Basically any non "full" Abstraction would fall into mid to high.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
where would you guys rank
those who sit above in shadow
dormammu
umar
aegis
cyttorak
walker
PC darksied Below everybody on that list they have no feats to compete

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
no, kubic beat both post molecule man and beyonder

When?

I'm fairly sure Molecule Man was manhandling Beyonder, who was at least = Kubik, and Kubik had to ask Owen to fix Kosmos/Beyonder rather than doing it himself...

You know the little page describing tiers by Thor that Galactus fans love to use? Well according to it, Odin = Galactus =/> Cube Beings like the Beyonder from what I remember.

Course, it's about as cannon as a handbook but whatever.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
You know the little page describing tiers by Thor that Galactus fans love to use? Well according to it, Odin = Galactus =/> Cube Beings like the Beyonder from what I remember.

Course, it's about as cannon as a handbook but whatever.

this

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/51954/1159592-thor_annual_1989__014_36_37.jpg

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
You know the little page describing tiers by Thor that Odin fans love to use? Well according to it, Odin = Galactus =/> Cube Beings like the Beyonder from what I remember.

Course, it's about as cannon as a handbook but whatever.

Fixed.

Originally posted by Stoic
Wouldn't the Asgardian Destroyer be more on the high end of the Elder God power level spectrum? I mean, it's all power while lacking high end reality warping abilities. Perhaps the Phoenix, at certain levels would be more on the level of a high end Cube being? Anyways these immensely powerful cosmic beings have always stomped me.

Its possible you are right, but both Odin and the Destroyer Armor possess the ability to manipulate matter and energy and this 2000ft version should be able to do so to a point thats far greater than what Odin or the AD cold do solo...

I believe at some point extreme matter/energy manipulation is no different than reality warping; the 2000ft Destroy should be at this point...

In addition, the AD did tank multiple attacks from a Celestial host with the killshot requiring a concentrated attack from 8 of them; surely no Elder God level being would fair as well as the 2000ft Destroyer did against such odds...

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Peak Ion would be above it.And Post retcon MM would be above it.

And Maker and Shaper and Kubik are all cube beings aren't they?

I cant see Peak Ion doing half as well against the 4th Celestial Host as the Destroyer did; I honestly think Ion would go down much faster to them than did the 2000ft Destroyer...

And yeah, the Maker, Shaper, and Kubik are all Cube Beings...the challenge of this thread was to pick atleast two characters per level of power (low, mid, and high) with one of your choices being something else other than an actual Cube Being.

Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
Molecule Man is definitely far more powerful than Kubik, likely higher than the Cube being tier as a whole...

No way...

Owen simply possesses a portion of the power of of CCU; he and the Maker/Beyonder are incomplete Cubes...

Kubik may have asked Owen to restore Kosmos/Beyonder, but going by feats, there is no doubt in my mind that Kubik could have done this as well...afterall, Kubik is a complete CCU.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
where would you guys rank
those who sit above in shadow
dormammu
umar
aegis
cyttorak
walker
PC darksied

With the exception of Aegis (you are referring to the Galactus level being...right?), all of those characters would be annilhilated by anything in the Cube Being tier IMHO...

Originally posted by zopzop
Hey LoM

I've always read "Cube Tier Beings" as reality warpers.

Low : Any "half" cube beings. Like Post Retcon Beyonder before he merged with MM to become Kosmos/Maker/whatever he is now
Mid : Any full Cube Being - Kubik, Shaper of Worlds, Kosmos, etc...
High : Molecule Man Unleashed (don't ask)

Non Cube Beings like Chthon that have reality warping powers would be Low to Mid depending on how the writers were handling them. Eternity told Hank Pym he saved him from the threat of Chthon. So read into that what you will.

There are also Herald level reality warpers like Glorian.

Then you have omega level Gods like the Scarlet Witch or Mad Jim Jaspers. They have reality warping powers in excess of any Cosmic Cube but I guess they'd be God Tier and not Cube Tier.

Asgardian Destroyer as High Cube? I'd place him Mid at best. I can see Kubik or other Full Cube Beings owning it badly. But I could be wrong.

Other Mid to High nominations :
Aegis
Teneberous
Galactus
certain Watchers (see Ecce)

Basically any non "full" Abstraction would fall into mid to high.

Interesting...

So extreme reality warp is one of your prereqs for the Cube Being tier?

Let me think that over; that would make alot of sense seeing as these beings are just a notch below an Abstract/High End Cosmic and thus should be capable of almost anything...


Well, while I process that, I always thought of Galactus as an "Abstract/High End Cosmic" type (I look at those as one in the same as the High End Cosmic types are often presented as being in the same realm of power as the Abstracts are)...

Assumming that we accept Kubiks words as fact (even though it STINKS of hyperbole), Galactus should be much more powerful than Cube tier beings are; same applies for T&A, Full Power Tyrant, and Celestials...

I honestly look at Galactus and Celestials as "semi-abstract" as they are not what they appear; the Celestial Armor is simply a shell to house their energy forms and Galactus's appearance is dictated by whatever "you" are when you look at him (he typically appears as a member of your own race/species)...

Chthon, while possessing reality warp, doesnt possess it to the extent needed to get into the Cube Being tier (IMHO of course)...wasnt he fleeing for his life from Demogorge? I think any being in the Cube Being tier defeats peak Demogorge (I view him as the greatest of the Elder God level beings)...


But anyway...extreme reality warp as a prereq...interesting thought!

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
You know the little page describing tiers by Thor that Galactus fans love to use? Well according to it, Odin = Galactus =/> Cube Beings like the Beyonder from what I remember.

Course, it's about as cannon as a handbook but whatever.

Yeah, I am familiar with that page...

But it just seems wrong to me; I cant agree with Thors view of the power scale in the Marvel Universe...

LordofMurder

You didn't like that Thor Annual "Tier List"?

I thought it was pretty accurate no?

I mean Odin does seem to be the equal to Galactus or a Cube Being. Cube Beings are inferior to Celestials. Celestials are inferior to Abstractions. The Abstractions are inferior to the LT.

The Odin/Galactus/Cube Being thing isn't to my liking but Odin's feats clearly place him in their league. You already know my opinion on this.

It should go Odin <<<<<<<<<Cube Being << Galactus

Originally posted by zopzop
LordofMurder

You didn't like that Thor Annual "Tier List"?

I thought it was pretty accurate no?

I mean Odin does seem to be the equal to Galactus or a Cube Being. Cube Beings are inferior to Celestials. Celestials are inferior to Abstractions. The Abstractions are inferior to the LT.

The Odin/Galactus/Cube Being thing isn't to my liking but Odin's feats clearly place him in their league. You already know my opinion on this.

It should go Odin <<<<<<<<<Cube Being << Galactus Based on nothing is odin that high.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Based on nothing is odin that high.

Yeah nothing like his feats of galaxy level destruction, or shaking the multiverse, his creation taking on 8 Celestials at once, or his battles with his foes threatening to destroy all reality. You know, nothing.

Originally posted by zopzop
Yeah nothing like his feats of galaxy level destruction, or shaking the multiverse, his creation taking on 8 Celestials at once, or his battles with his foes threatening to destroy all reality. You know, nothing. Not really.

He has a big AOE feat.Nothing compared to elder gods,cube beings,celestials,abstracts.

You just really seem obsessed with big AOE's.

His creation going toe to toe vs 8 Celestials is an AoE?

Originally posted by zopzop
His creation going toe to toe vs 8 Celestials is an AoE? Which creation was this?The 2000 ft destroyer?

The Destroyer, which he created, that he later filled up with his life force and the life force of every Asgardian except Thor, and only because Thor wasn't there.

Originally posted by zopzop
The Destroyer, which he created, that he later filled up with his life force and the life force of every Asgardian except Thor, and only because Thor wasn't there. So your using evidence of something not odin,that he has an amp, and is much more powerful than him.

He didn't do it by himself.ANd he still lost.It doesn't count.

So all you have are big AOE's.Not near cube being much less abstract.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
So your using evidence of something not odin,that he has an amp, and is much more powerful than him.

He didn't do it by himself.ANd he still lost.It doesn't count.


The destroyer is more powerful than Odin? What comic have you been reading?

He created the armor, the other skyfathers lent only portion of their power to it.l But Odin made it.

He "lost" vs 8 Celestials. E I G H T.



Threatening ALL reality with destruction and rocking the multiverse while reigniting dead stars universe wide is not Cube or Abstract level?

Odin couldn't affect one celestial with two other skyfathers amping his blast. That's T H R E E.

Originally posted by zopzop
LordofMurder

You didn't like that Thor Annual "Tier List"?

I thought it was pretty accurate no?

I mean Odin does seem to be the equal to Galactus or a Cube Being. Cube Beings are inferior to Celestials. Celestials are inferior to Abstractions. The Abstractions are inferior to the LT.

The Odin/Galactus/Cube Being thing isn't to my liking but Odin's feats clearly place him in their league. You already know my opinion on this.

It should go Odin <<<<<<<<<Cube Being << Galactus

No...didnt like that list; Odin may have a really high end feat under his belt against Seth, but he normally isnt portrayed as being that powerful.

During the IG arc, he and the other Skyfathers got stranded in Asgard; I have no doubt that Galactus or anyone else present during the meeting of "The Astral Deities of the Universe" would not have been stopped the same way the Skyfathers were (I dont think anyone in the Cube Being tier would be stopped like that either)...

As pertains the Celestials, they are often portrayed as being right up there with the Abstracts; I certainly believe that most powerful Celestials are stronger than the lowest of Abstracts (Tiamut and Exitar come to mind)...


Of course with all the inconsistencies in comics, you can argue Odin is above Galactus and some Cube tier beings (and be right about it as well since most arguments come down to on panel feats), but I contend that Odin is often portrayed as being inferior to Cube tier beings and Galactus...

I really think they need to retcon everything and just start over as its almost impossible to come to a consensus at present.

Originally posted by zopzop
The destroyer is more powerful than Odin? What comic have you been reading?

He created the armor, the other skyfathers lent only portion of their power to it.l But Odin made it.

He "lost" vs 8 Celestials. E I G H T.



Threatening ALL reality with destruction and rocking the multiverse while reigniting dead stars universe wide is not Cube or Abstract level? The destroy powered by all of asgard is obviously more poweful then Odin

And he could have lost to one.He didn't even beat one.

No its not.Threatening means nothing if it doesn't happen.The shaking is a just a big AOE and isn't impressive.I mean Thor and BRB have rocked the multiverse.But they aren't even skyfather.

And cube beings have created reality's all their own.

And he only has one feat of doing anything like that. His next highest feat is busting a galaxy.Things abstracts do for fun.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
I really think they need to retcon everything and just start over as its almost impossible to come to a consensus at present.

The Living Tribunal
The Full Phoenix Force
The Goblin Force
Order/Chaos
Zom
Eternity
Infinity
Death
Oblivion
Shuma Gorath

What do they all have in common? Odin has more impressive or as impressive on panel feats as that group of Top Tier Abstractions!

Hell yes they need a retcon.

Originally posted by zopzop
The Living Tribunal
The Full Phoenix Force
The Goblin Force
Order/Chaos
Zom
Eternity
Infinity
Death
Oblivion
Shuma Gorath

What do they all have in common? Odin has more impressive or as impressive on panel feats as that group of Top Tier Abstractions!

Hell yes they need a retcon. Odin has no feats more impressive then them.

You wank one feat.Then the next highest feat he has is destroying a galaxy.All of them are easily capabale of that.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
The destroy powered by all of asgard is obviously more poweful then Odin

And he could have lost to one.He didn't even beat one.

Odin as Lord of Asgard took their life force because it's his to take. Just like he can draw power from the land itself to amp him. It's in his powerset.



It didn't happen because it was stopped!



Odin created Asgard which was it's own dimension (see the Thor Annual scan).




Really, aside from Galactus (and only recently), you got on panel evidence of abstracts busting a galaxy? What issue?

Odin with his feats could be low tier Cube Level at best! the other Cube Beings are Mid except for Beyonder and Evil Molecule Man who is pretty damn high on Cosmic hierarchy food chain.

Originally posted by zopzop
Odin as Lord of Asgard took their life force because it's his to take. Just like he can draw power from the land itself to amp him. It's in his powerset.



It didn't happen because it was stopped!



Odin created Asgard which was it's own dimension (see the Thor Annual scan).




Really, aside from Galactus (and only recently), you got on panel evidence of abstracts busting a galaxy? What issue? Yet he can't always do it.Its not his power.Its their power.He can just take it.And unless specified in a forum match he can't do that.

Once again threatening means nothing.I can threaten you with a knife.If I don't stab you it means nothing.

Entire reality>Dimension.

What do you mean only recently?Galactus has been busting galaxies since the 80's.

lol not this argument again...

The problem with Cube Being as a tier is that Cube Beings despite being lower on the food chain than Abstracts have much better feats than most of the Abstracts that supposedly shit on them.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
The problem with Cube Being as a tier is that Cube Beings despite being lower on the food chain than Abstracts have much better feats than most of the Abstracts that supposedly shit on them.

Ding ding ding. We have a winner.

See Cube Being feats vs Celestial feats. And supposedly the Celestials are "many orders of magnitude of power above" Cube Beings.

Originally posted by zopzop
Ding ding ding. We have a winner.

See Cube Being feats vs Celestial feats. And supposedly the Celestials are "many orders of magnitude of power above" Cube Beings. Because they were compared on panel. It's also foolish to determine anything based on feats alone and ignore common sense the the writer's comparing these characters power levels without the feats.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
The problem with Cube Being as a tier is that Cube Beings despite being lower on the food chain than Abstracts have much better feats than most of the Abstracts that supposedly shit on them. this is true,

also the celestials were shook by the power of an elder god
http://www.imagebam.com/image/97adae110297271
eternity stated left uncheck one of them could warp the universe

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
this is true,

also the celestials were shook by the power of an elder god
http://37.imagebam.com/download.php?ID=110297271&salt=97adae&sec=8db897&filesize=600816&filename=Scan015.jpg Yet celestials owned the 2000ft destroyer.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Yet celestials owned the 2000ft destroyer. i know

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Yet celestials owned the 2000ft destroyer.

And how long ago was that? 15, 20, 25 years? It's maybe even 30 years old. Times have changed.

Originally posted by zopzop
And how long ago was that? 15, 20, 25 years? It's maybe even 30 years old. Times have changed. To him having galaxy destroying power at best.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
To him having galaxy destroying power at best.

Who are you referring to?

odin

Originally posted by zopzop
And how long ago was that? 15, 20, 25 years? It's maybe even 30 years old. Times have changed. Celestials are still above Odin. Give me a reason to suggest this has changed ?

Quan, what's their highest on panel feat since that fight 30 or so years ago with the Skyfathers?

Hurling 3-4 planets at Thanos with the IG?

Check the Odin respect thread and compare it to the Galactus/Hearalds and Celestials respect thread.

Odin's on panel feats destroy all others. He has better feats than higher end abstracts (Eternity/Infinity/Oblivion/Death) and universal forces like the Phoenix Force and Goblin Force.

Originally posted by zopzop
Quan, what's their highest on panel feat since that fight 30 or so years ago with the Skyfathers?

Hurling 3-4 planets at Thanos with the IG?

Check the Odin respect thread and compare it to the Galactus/Hearalds and Celestials respect thread.

Odin's on panel feats destroy all others. He has better feats than higher end abstracts (Eternity/Infinity/Oblivion/Death) and universal forces like the Phoenix Force and Goblin Force. They defeated odin with a amp and years of prep. feats don't determine anything.

You clinging to them like they do shows an inability on your part to understand the simple message that the Celestials are beyond odin as they are far more powerful than he is.

Feats don't determine anything here and never have. People arguing by feats and feats alone while ignoring on panel comparisons aren't good debaters.

Originally posted by zopzop
Quan, what's their highest on panel feat since that fight 30 or so years ago with the Skyfathers?

Hurling 3-4 planets at Thanos with the IG?

Check the Odin respect thread and compare it to the Galactus/Hearalds and Celestials respect thread.

Odin's on panel feats destroy all others. He has better feats than higher end abstracts (Eternity/Infinity/Oblivion/Death) and universal forces like the Phoenix Force and Goblin Force. Phail.Just phail.

Two celestials had dozens of planets launched at thanos.

Odin has mabye one feat beyond abstract.And due to that one feat being far beyond anything else he has ever done it is PIS.Or just a hyperbole.Abstracts stomp Odin.

You have no proof.

Originally posted by zopzop
Quan, what's their highest on panel feat since that fight 30 or so years ago with the Skyfathers?

Hurling 3-4 planets at Thanos with the IG?

Check the Odin respect thread and compare it to the Galactus/Hearalds and Celestials respect thread.

Odin's on panel feats destroy all others. He has better feats than higher end abstracts (Eternity/Infinity/Oblivion/Death) and universal forces like the Phoenix Force and Goblin Force.

Odin doesnt have better feats than the best of the Phoenix Force. Not by any stretch of the imagination. And the very fact that Odin is but a speck of the Phoenix Forces totality and yet has such high level feats should surely lead you to realise that its not all about feats alone when comparing these characters, but also character statements, the comparative nature of the characters themselves and common sense that should all play a part in such discussion.

Originally posted by Utrigita
Fixed.

Lol what?

I can't think of more than a single instance that an Odin fan used that scene as evidence before a Galactus fan has. Galactus fans and the like however cling to a piece of text on that page like a drowning to a life preserver. Because without it, there's no basis at all that Galactus was in anyway weakened, when Thor sent his ass running to the hills.

I don't care if that page ceased to exist. I doubt any Thor/Odin fans would either.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Lol what?

I can't think of more than a single instance that an Odin fan used that scene as evidence before a Galactus fan has. Galactus fans and the like however cling to a piece of text on that page like a drowning to a life preserver. Because without it, there's no basis at all that Galactus was in anyway weakened, when Thor sent his ass running to the hills.

I don't care if that page ceased to exist. I doubt any Thor/Odin fans would either. He was fighting another character so him being weakened which he usually is makes perfect sense. As a Thor fan of course it angers you but you hav eno choice but to accept it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He was fighting another character so him being weakened which he usually is makes perfect sense. As a Thor fan of course it angers you but you hav eno choice but to accept it.

When Galactus is weakened, the comic always points it out or at the very least hints it in some way, shape or form. It did neither. And this is Stan Lee's writing. When a character was weakened, he made it damn clear. At least when he wrote Thor. Galactus gave no indication of being weakened, and the only thing I recall him doing under his own power was directing some cosmic meteors. It doesn't help that right before the fight, Thor witnessed dozens of refugees from various planets fleeing as Galactus had ravaged the Galaxy -or something like that- with his hunger on his way through there.

Not really. I can easily debate the scene, arguing it's no more cannon than a handbook. It was an extra at the back of a Thor annual. But I'll save that for when I'm bored.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
When Galactus is weakened, the comic always points it out or at the very least hints it in some way, shape or form. It did neither. And this is Stan Lee's writing. When a character was weakened, he made it damn clear. At least when he wrote Thor. Galactus gave no indication of being weakened, and the only thing I recall him doing under his own power was directing some cosmic meteors. It doesn't help that right before the fight, Thor witnessed dozens of refugees from various planets fleeing as Galactus had ravaged the Galaxy -or something like that- with his hunger on his way through there.

Not really. I can easily debate the scene, arguing it's no more cannon than a handbook. It was an extra at the back of a Thor annual. But I'll save that for when I'm bored. Retcons. Just like the Thanos appearance you can't say the writer intended it to be Thanos and ignore marvel allowing it to be retconned. The same logic applies here.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Retcons. Just like the Thanos appearance you can't say the writer intended it to be Thanos and ignore marvel allowing it to be retconned. The same logic applies here.

Good job countering everything.

It was the back up of a Thor annual. It's like arguing this is evidence Thor's stronger than anyone on Earth, even Hulk:
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ThorWeightLift.jpg

Marvel allowed it!

Do you accept that the Destroyer can destroy Galactus? That's one of the possible implications of that scan.

Whatever, it doesn't matter.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Good job countering everything.

It was the back up of a Thor annual. It's like arguing this is evidence Thor's stronger than anyone on Earth, even Hulk:
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ThorWeightLift.jpg

Marvel allowed it!

Do you accept that the Destroyer can destroy Galactus? That's one of the possible implications of that scan.

Whatever, it doesn't matter. If you want to compare a vague comment with an actual statement with regarding Thor's interaction with Galactus and pretend it's the same thing to justify your point then go right on ahead.

You do this all the time and frankly people can see right through it. Galactus was weakened and has owned Thor ever since. The only thing that makes sense was it was the perfect situation for Thor to do so since he was already engaging someone else and that he was weakened.

Originally posted by quanchi112
If you want to compare a vague comment with an actual statement with regarding Thor's interaction with Galactus and pretend it's the same thing to justify your point then go right on ahead.

A vague comment? It was a strength competition in some Marvel magazine, and Thor won. Nothing vague about it. Marvel allowed Thor to be ranked as number 1!

I don't consider the listing of power levels by Thor at the back of an annual to be anymore cannon than this. At least, not any more cannon than a handbook etc.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You do this all the time and frankly people can see right through it. Galactus was weakened and has owned Thor ever since.

Lulz

Technically, that's not true, but whatever. I think a fight between Thor and Galactus will go about the same as it did most recently in Avengers unless Thor gets more exotic: Thor gets off an attack, and Galactus knocks him down with a blast.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The only thing that makes sense was it was the perfect situation for Thor to do so since he was already engaging someone else and that he was weakened.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
When Galactus is weakened, the comic always points it out or at the very least hints it in some way, shape or form. It did neither. And this is Stan Lee's writing. When a character was weakened, he made it damn clear. At least when he wrote Thor. Galactus gave no indication of being weakened, and the only thing I recall him doing under his own power was directing some cosmic meteors. It doesn't help that right before the fight, Thor witnessed dozens of refugees from various planets fleeing as Galactus had ravaged the Galaxy -or something like that- with his hunger on his way through there.
And Thor attacked when he did because Ego was defeated by Galactus as I recall.

Anyways, it doesn't really matter. I just don't want people to pretend like it's some irrefutable piece of evidence.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
A vague comment? It was a strength competition in some Marvel magazine, and Thor won. Nothing vague about it. Marvel allowed Thor to be ranked as number 1!

I don't consider the listing of power levels by Thor at the back of an annual to be anymore cannon than this. At least, not any more cannon than a handbook etc.



Lulz

Technically, that's not true, but whatever. I think a fight between Thor and Galactus will go about the same as it did most recently in Avengers unless Thor gets more exotic: Thor gets off an attack, and Galactus knocks him down with a blast.



And Thor attacked when he did because Ego was defeated by Galactus as I recall.

Anyways, it doesn't really matter. I just don't want people to pretend like it's some irrefutable piece of evidence. Ok, but Hulk's strength levels vary and this was eons ago and things have changed since then just like Thor doesn't seem to be portrayed as doing anything to Galactus nowadays.

I don't see any reason why we shouldn't believe what is listed in the back of his own book other than from your perspective which takes away from thor so it's plain to see why you'd have the motive here.

Then you really have no problem with Galactus being so far above Thor his only chance would be to have his attention elsewhere and while weakened Thor have the power necessary through his most powerful attack to chase him off.

It's stated black and white. You can ignore it but I know why.


You love you some Thor.

*sigh*

Quanchi, I'm so tired of arguing with you. You want a response? Pretend my last post was a reply and match up the text.

Edit: Eons ago? You seem to be playing the age card more and more recently. I'll remember that.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
*sigh*

Quanchi, I'm so tired of arguing with you. You want a response? Pretend my last post was a reply and match up the text.

Edit: Eons ago? You seem to be playing the age card more and more recently. I'll remember that. Then why even continue this dance with me. We both know how this always ends.

But it applies here. Thor seemed to have been portrayed imo more favorable against the Hulk than he does today. Strength wise Hulk has definitely run past Thor and then some.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Then why even continue this dance with me. We both know how this always ends.

But it applies here. Thor seemed to have been portrayed imo more favorable against the Hulk than he does today. Strength wise Hulk has definitely run past Thor and then some.

Because as long as I've provided sufficient evidence to the spectators to acknowledge or even come over to my stance, I've succeeded.

It does always end with me getting tired of shooting down all your arguments.

What does that mean? That you agree this scene proves that at the time, Thor was stronger than the Hulk? I don't give a shit as long as you're consistent.

If you think so.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Because as long as I've provided sufficient evidence to the spectators to acknowledge or even come over to my stance, I've succeeded.

It does always end with me getting tired of shooting down all your arguments.

What does that mean? That you agree this scene proves that at the time, Thor was stronger than the Hulk? I don't give a shit as long as you're consistent.

If you think so. No one has and usually it's just to mess with me imo.

You haven't shot down a thing which makes your comment make no sense.

I'd have to read the entire comic or leaf through it to get the specifics.


Hulk's strength levels change anyways and his power seems to have gone up opver the years whereas Thor's hasn't imo. Thor's best power feats are from like 20-30 years ago. They still apply but currently Thor seems to not cut the mustard strength wise against the Hulk anymore.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Lol what?

I can't think of more than a single instance that an Odin fan used that scene as evidence before a Galactus fan has. Galactus fans and the like however cling to a piece of text on that page like a drowning to a life preserver. Because without it, there's no basis at all that Galactus was in anyway weakened, when Thor sent his ass running to the hills.

I don't care if that page ceased to exist. I doubt any Thor/Odin fans would either.

Why on earth would a Galactus fan, use a scan where Odin and Galactus according to Thor is equal, when what the Galactus side argues for is always that Galactus is above Odin?

I can't think of a single incident, where the afformentioned scan was used in a debate, by a Galactus fan to argue for Galactus being above Odin, but please by my guest and find such a incident.

There is no way of saying that Galactus was weakened when Thor used the Godblast on him? In the second confrontation Galactus makes it clear that he wanted to feast on Ego's energy just like he wanted in their first confrontation because his need for energy was great. And ofcause in Thor V1 #134 Galactus says that he enters the Black Galaxy in order to obtain the abundance of life located therein.

So actually those that is using the afformentioned scan obviously have no idea of that atleast two other sources exist that points out that Galactus was hungry when Thor used the Godblast on him.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
No way...

Owen simply possesses a portion of the power of of CCU; he and the Maker/Beyonder are incomplete Cubes...

Kubik may have asked Owen to restore Kosmos/Beyonder, but going by feats, there is no doubt in my mind that Kubik could have done this as well...afterall, Kubik is a complete CCU.

Owen has feats >>> any of the other cube beings, and Kubik pretty much admitted Owen's superiority.

I mean, Owen was warping the multiverse when he pulled Beyonder out of Kosmos and fought him, and then Kubik mentioned how this still wasn't Owen's full potential.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Odin doesnt have better feats than the best of the Phoenix Force. Not by any stretch of the imagination.

On panel? I'd say he does or at least equals.



Of course common sense says that Odin gets wiped out within nanoseconds of confronting the High End Abstractions and Universal/Multversal Forces. But on panel feats...................., this is why LordofMurder came up with the new Tier thread and this thread. Marvel needs to tone down it's on panel feats by insects that have no business doing them (Odin shaking the multiverse, Two Thors clanging hammers shacking the fabric of the universe, etc....).

Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
Owen has feats >>> any of the other cube beings, and Kubik pretty much admitted Owen's superiority.

I mean, Owen was warping the multiverse when he pulled Beyonder out of Kosmos and fought him, and then Kubik mentioned how this still wasn't Owen's full potential.

Didn't Own go on to be WTFPwned by Sentry?

Originally posted by zopzop
Didn't Own go on to be WTFPwned by Sentry? Wasn't Odin beaten by an army of ants far below Thor level on top of his own army ? I can play this game too.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Wasn't Odin beaten by an army of ants far below Thor level on top of his own army ? I can play this game too.

My point, which you obviously missed, was writers are idiots.

How is a FULL Cube Being (Kosmos/Kubik) < Half a Cube Being (Molecule Man)?

That's the same logic that makes a High Herald WTFPwn half a Cube Being.

Originally posted by zopzop
On panel? I'd say he does or at least equals.

Such as shaking the multiverse? You know that sometimes 616 alone is referred to as a multiverse because of the various dimensions linked to it alone such as Asgard, Dark Dimension etc.

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/9719/beyonderexploresthemuli.th.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/9719/beyonderexploresthemuli.th.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Unless theres any proof that Odin affected the actual multiverse, instead of the pseudo multiverse/universe it should probably be accepted that it was just the universe as the term alone isnt enough. Plus in Odins case as a skyfather it is far more feasible that it was just the universe.

Originally posted by zopzop
Of course common sense says that Odin gets wiped out within nanoseconds of confronting the High End Abstractions and Universal/Multversal Forces. But on panel feats...................., this is why LordofMurder came up with the new Tier thread and this thread. Marvel needs to tone down it's on panel feats by insects that have no business doing them (Odin shaking the multiverse, Two Thors clanging hammers shacking the fabric of the universe, etc....).

Maybe its just a case that we have been misinterpreting the actual scale of the feats. But yes i generally agree.

Originally posted by zopzop
My point, which you obviously missed, was writers are idiots.

How is a FULL Cube Being (Kosmos/Kubik) < Half a Cube Being (Molecule Man)?

That's the same logic that makes a High Herald WTFPwn half a Cube Being.

Well no, because Owen isn't half a cube being. Cube beings are CCU's which are fully evolved from their raw, wish granting state. Whereas Owen is a human being who can tap into the same energies as a cube being iirc. I mean, admittedly, that makes it weird why he was needed to complete Kosmos, but then at the same time if he was part of a cube being then why would he be able to exist away from Kosmos and use his powers after they had been absorbed into Kosmos...

Either way, it's got to the point where even if Owen is part of a cube being , he's been shown to be superior by feats and also has a nubmer of character's (that would know about these things) stating his effectively limitless power etc...

Originally posted by zopzop
My point, which you obviously missed, was writers are idiots.

How is a FULL Cube Being (Kosmos/Kubik) < Half a Cube Being (Molecule Man)?

That's the same logic that makes a High Herald WTFPwn half a Cube Being. Writers vary geused to it you stating Odin is up there with abstracts is the most idiotic thing I have heard in years.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Writers vary geused to it you stating Odin is up there with abstracts is the most idiotic thing I have heard in years.

Yea because him having feats dwarfing Eternity and crew is meaningless and all.

Originally posted by zopzop
Yea because him having feats dwarfing Eternity and crew is meaningless and all. Except he doesn't.

Originally posted by zopzop
Yea because him having feats dwarfing Eternity and crew is meaningless and all. Holding onto feats is pure garbage and we've seen how weak he is when compared to Celestials who barely even noticed an amped Odin.

Feats don't prove anything and don't ever trump character portrayals.

The Celestials fight was OVER THIRTY YEARS AGO.

A lot has changed.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Holding onto feats is pure garbage and we've seen how weak he is when compared to Celestials who barely even noticed an amped Odin.

Feats don't prove anything and don't ever trump character portrayals. Yes they do.Feats determine 95% of character placement.

at you calling feats pure garbage. I guess thanos has no feats.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Yes they do.Feats determine 95% of character placement.

at you calling feats pure garbage. I guess thanos has no feats. Thanos is portrayed as higher than top tiers I don't need to recite feats of him lifting heavy objects to prove my points. Feats aren't that important imo. You will never learn.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Thanos is portrayed as higher than top tiers I don't need to recite feats of him lifting heavy objects to prove my points. Feats aren't that important imo. You will never learn. Feats are very important. Read the rules.

And no hes not portrayed that way. Feats show he is that way.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Feats are very important. Read the rules.

And no hes not portrayed that way. Feats show he is that way. Feats can help yes but they aren't the most important aspect which is ultimately character portrayal.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Feats can help yes but they aren't the most important aspect which is ultimately character portrayal. No its not. Thanos isn't portrayed as powerful. Feats show he is.

Thanos's character design puts him at Trans, same as his feats.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
No its not. Thanos isn't portrayed as powerful. Feats show he is. What feats ?

Originally posted by quanchi112
What feats ? durpalm

Originally posted by Black bolt z
durpalm Go ahead and explain since feats determine his placing tell me which ones. Quit dodging questions actually debate.Originally posted by Omega Vision
Thanos's character design puts him at Trans, same as his feats. He's well beyond trans nowadays.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Go ahead and explain since feats determine his placing tell me which ones. Quit dodging questions actually debate. He's well beyond trans nowadays. Feats place him where he is not portaryal. Portrayal only really matters when you get into cube being and higher. Until then feats determine everything.

No hes not. I'd place him at low skyfather at best.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Feats place him where he is not portaryal. Portrayal only really matters when you get into cube being and higher. Until then feats determine everything.

No hes not. I'd place him at low skyfather at best. Which feats then ? You just keep repeating yourself in virtually every thread and try to make it sound as if you know what you are talking about when it's obvious you can't name what feats.

You will act insulted and throw up another smiley and avoid the question. You really haven't a clue about any character on here.

You don't even know what skyfather level is.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Which feats then ? You just keep repeating yourself in virtually every thread and try to make it sound as if you know what you are talking about when it's obvious you can't name what feats.

You will act insulted and throw up another smiley and avoid the question. You really haven't a clue about any character on here.

You don't even know what skyfather level is. You want me to name feats for the character you claim to know everything about?

No thats you.

Going by your tiering surfer wold be high skyfather.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
You want me to name feats for the character you claim to know everything about?

No thats you.

Going by your tiering surfer wold be high skyfather. I know his feats I know you don't though hence me asking you. You even threw up a smiley just like I predicted. I am sooo good.

Says the guy who avoided the question and threw up a smiley just as I predicted.

I don't tend to classify beings usually. That's what others do not I.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I know his feats I know you don't though hence me asking you. You even threw up a smiley just like I predicted. I am sooo good.

Says the guy who avoided the question and threw up a smiley just as I predicted.

I don't tend to classify beings usually. That's what others do not I. If you know his feats then why are you asking for his feats as to why he is at the placing he is?

It wasn't a question lol.It was an insult.

Your supposed to tier beings...

Originally posted by Black bolt z
If you know his feats then why are you asking for his feats as to why he is at the placing he is?

It wasn't a question lol.It was an insult.

Your supposed to tier beings... I already told you why because I know you don't know the answer. This is to expose you as a debater. You just say things but don't really know why you say them as you can't explain which feats as you simply don't know.

It was a smiley I never said it was a question. You make no sense.

No, I am not. That's ridiculous I don't have to do anything.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I already told you why because I know you don't know the answer. This is to expose you as a debater. You just say things but don't really know why you say them as you can't explain which feats as you simply don't know.

It was a smiley I never said it was a question. You make no sense.

No, I am not. That's ridiculous I don't have to do anything. Yes I do. But why do you want to know feats for thanos which you claim to know all the feats for that would determine his placement of which you don't use feats to determine his placement?



Yes you are. Otherwise you agree with ZopZop.

Originally posted by Utrigita
Why on earth would a Galactus fan, use a scan where Odin and Galactus according to Thor is equal, when what the Galactus side argues for is always that Galactus is above Odin?

I see your point, but I can honestly tell you I have seen that scene referenced a fair bit more by Galactus fans than I have seen it done by Odin fans etc.

Frankly, I can only think of two incidents where it's happened.

Originally posted by Utrigita
I can't think of a single incident, where the afformentioned scan was used in a debate, by a Galactus fan to argue for Galactus being above Odin, but please by my guest and find such a incident.

What? That in itself makes no sense. How can anyone use that scene as evidence that Galactus is above Odin? That's not even close to what I meant. Galactus fans use that scene as evidence that Galactus was severely weakened against Thor.

Originally posted by Utrigita
There is no way of saying that Galactus was weakened when Thor used the Godblast on him?

As far as I remember.

Originally posted by Utrigita
And ofcause in Thor V1 #134 Galactus says that he enters the Black Galaxy in order to obtain the abundance of life located therein.

I'm pretty sure I'm aware of the scene you're talking about. It is when Galactus first introduces himself, no? I acknowledge that scene, but about 30 issues later -Thor #160- it shows that Galactus had feed on the abundance of life and so on with various refugees fleeing the multiple worlds that Galactus feed on.

Galactus only encounters Ego because he returns back through one of the areas he ravaged to study the Cosmos due to a subtle wave of intelligence or something and Ego attacks him.

Originally posted by Utrigita
In the second confrontation Galactus makes it clear that he wanted to feast on Ego's energy just like he wanted in their first confrontation because his need for energy was great.

Curse you for making me find the issue (It's been a while.)

Galactus says he wanted to fight Ego, to conquer him, and ultimately to consume him because he was a planet. That doesn't mean Galactus was hungry. He didn't even initiate the encounter with Ego as I recall. Doesn't help that Galactus later pointed out that he avoided Ego until his hunger was too great. Indicating that if he was hungry at all -which I don't believe he is- it wasn't vital enough to engage him in combat.

As I understand it, you're argument is based on the principle that Galactus only feeds when his hungry. I was pretty sure that this was not the case?

I can think of only one scene that might indicate Galactus was hungry, and it's neither of the two mentioned.

However, I have seen your point. If someone read the top text box during the issue when Galactus came Thor for help, I might see why they came to the conclusion that they did.

I still however don't understand how the writer of that annual thought Thor called on the power of the Odin to defeat Galactus.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Yes I do. But why do you want to know feats for thanos which you claim to know all the feats for that would determine his placement of which you don't use feats to determine his placement?



Yes you are. Otherwise you agree with ZopZop. I know his entire history but you don't. You don't know anything about him. Other people say things you steal their logic yet don't know how to back it up yet. As a debater I don't think you will grow with this attitude.

You stated feats determine this stuff yet ignored it when it comes to Celestials and Odin then claimed I was only using high feats for Odin but you yourself used the highest feat of the Celestials well probably the only feat you know of.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Such as shaking the multiverse? You know that sometimes 616 alone is referred to as a multiverse because of the various dimensions linked to it alone such as Asgard, Dark Dimension etc.

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/9719/beyonderexploresthemuli.th.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/9719/beyonderexploresthemuli.th.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Unless theres any proof that Odin affected the actual multiverse, instead of the pseudo multiverse/universe it should probably be accepted that it was just the universe as the term alone isnt enough. Plus in Odins case as a skyfather it is far more feasible that it was just the universe.

http://img223.imageshack.us/f/odinsethuniverse8gm.jpg/

Multiverse mentioned.

http://img50.imageshack.us/f/sethvsweakenedodin26rj.jpg/

Every plane of reality mentioned.

It could referring to the 616 and all the conjoined dimensions there in, or it could be the Multiverse. Knowing DeFalco though, I'm leaning towards the second choice. Course, the word Universe was mentioned.

I think the battle was somewhere between 616 related and Multiversal.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I see your point, but I can honestly tell you I have seen that scene referenced a fair bit more by Galactus fans than I have seen it done by Odin fans etc.

Frankly, I can only think of two incidents where it's happened.

Which would be strange as it's of more use to the Odin side then it is to the Galactus side.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
What? That in itself makes no sense. How can anyone use that scene as evidence that Galactus is above Odin? That's not even close to what I meant. Galactus fans use that scene as evidence that Galactus was severely weakened against Thor.

It might not have been what you meant but based on your initial comment it was highly suggestable, that it was what the scan was used for.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
As far as I remember.

Two that says the other thing have however been presented.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I'm pretty sure I'm aware of the scene you're talking about. It is when Galactus first introduces himself, no? I acknowledge that scene, but about 30 issues later -Thor #160- it shows that Galactus had feed on the abundance of life and so on with various refugees fleeing the multiple worlds that Galactus feed on.

Galactus only encounters Ego because he returns back through one of the areas he ravaged to study the Cosmos due to a subtle wave of intelligence or something and Ego attacks him.

The scene as far as I'm aware is from Thor #134. That Galactus have feed on multiple worlds prior to encountering Ego is a possibility, but if that is the case the choice of words used by Galactus, that the Abundance of life within must be claimed, makes it, atleast to me based on Galactus history, clear that Galactus was hungry, because else he wouldn't feed, unless he is facing a great threat, and Galactus didn't at that point of time know he would encounter Ego within the Black Galaxy, so I find that unlikely.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Curse you for making me find the issue (It's been a while.)

Galactus says he wanted to fight Ego, to conquer him, and ultimately to consume him because he was a planet. That doesn't mean Galactus was hungry. He didn't even initiate the encounter with Ego as I recall. Doesn't help that Galactus later pointed out that he avoided Ego until his hunger was too great. Indicating that if he was hungry at all -which I don't believe he is- it wasn't vital enough to engage him in combat.

As I understand it, you're argument is based on the principle that Galactus only feeds when his hungry. I was pretty sure that this was not the case?

I can think of only one scene that might indicate Galactus was hungry, and it's neither of the two mentioned.

However, I have seen your point. If someone read the top text box during the issue when Galactus came Thor for help, I might see why they came to the conclusion that they did.

I still however don't understand how the writer of that annual thought Thor called on the power of the Odin to defeat Galactus.

I suggest getting them all digital

Correct and still not quite, the next paragrah mentions that Galactus for a time avoided Ego "And for a Time I avioded Ego - Until my Need for life Energy became to great"

Not quite, I know that Galactus only feeds when he must varies, but generally that is the consensus, and it would imo also be the case here because Galactus has no need to amp himself to a confrontation, which is normally the cause for him to amp himself. But I also think that it's based on the second encounter scan obvious that if Galactus goes to Ego when his need for Energy is great, then why should his initial attempt to consume Ego be based on other circumstances then Galactus also being in need for Energy?

I think the text box combined with thew afformentioned scan in Thor #136 put together with the general knowledge of Galactus as a character is enough evidence to say or atleast make a argument for why Galactus was weakened at the time.

IIRC Thor called on the elder power within him or something like that, isn't it possible that it's in some way connected with Odin?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
http://img223.imageshack.us/f/odinsethuniverse8gm.jpg/

Multiverse mentioned.

http://img50.imageshack.us/f/sethvsweakenedodin26rj.jpg/

Every plane of reality mentioned.

It could referring to the 616 and all the conjoined dimensions there in, or it could be the Multiverse. Knowing DeFalco though, I'm leaning towards the second choice. Course, the word Universe was mentioned.

I think the battle was somewhere between 616 related and Multiversal.

In the 1st scan Dr Strange mentions that the battle is tearing at the very fabric of the multiverse, but then he goes on to say that countless galaxies are at threat as opposed to countless realities which you would expect if it was the actual multiverse. Furthermore on the same page as you acknowledge its the universe that is stated to be the ultimate casualty should Odin fall not the actual multiverse.

The 2nd scan shows or states nothing conclusive to indicate that the battle affected anything beyond the universe as you also acknowledge.

Given Odins status as a skyfather, its common sense and logical that it was just the universe affected. That is unless you know of any conclusive incidents where Odin has been shown to have such ability?

As far as i can see given the universes in marvel being pseudo multiverses, the terms are used interchangeably which can be confusing. Its just up to us to use common sense and think about whats truly feasible for each character tier.

Skyfathers should not be able to affect the actual multiverse.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Skyfathers should not be able to affect the actual multiverse galaxy.

There, fixed it for you GS

Originally posted by zopzop
There, fixed it for you GS

@GalacticStorm

Common sense says, Skyfathers have no business busting galaxies let alone affecting multiverses but it's right there on panel.

The writers are absolute idiots, having Earth based Gods outperforming high end UNIVERSAL abstracts in terms of feats.

There's nothing to argue until the writers at Marvel get a clue and stop this BS.

they are earth based gods , however choas war made it clear that earths gods are the most powerful gods in the universe

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
they are earth based gods , however choas war made it clear that earths gods are the most powerful gods in the universe

Originally posted by zopzop
@GalacticStorm

Common sense says, Skyfathers have no business busting galaxies let alone affecting multiverses but it's right there on panel.

The writers are absolute idiots, having Earth based Gods outperforming high end UNIVERSAL abstracts in terms of feats.

There's nothing to argue until the writers at Marvel get a clue and stop this BS.
I wouldn't say that; the problem is that abstracts don't have enough feats, not that skyfathers have too much. Abstracts don't use their power directly (excepting when it's to have them beaten down to show off another abstract) because it makes the story boring. I mean, Eternity even said when the elders tried to destroy galactus, the reason he didn't just will the elder's scheme to fail was because it isn't his nature to act directly... instead he created the celestials as part of a roundabout plan.

KK, if skyfathers are wrecking galaxies and threatening multiverse wide destruction, what's left for abstracts to do?

The LT himself is only a multiversal judge.

Abstracts preside over the entire universe. A galaxy or even dozens should be nothing to them.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Abstracts preside over the entire universe. A galaxy or even dozens should be nothing to them.

Should, is the keyword.

In the Infinity Gauntlet series, Galactus, Stranger, Eon, Order, Chaos, Love, Hate, two Celestials, and Kronos blasted Thanos with everything they had simultaneously and it only managed to destroy the immediate solar system and "many" of the neighboring ones.

Surtur, a being Skyfather level, destroyed an entire galaxy just to forge his sword, by himself.

Galaxy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>"many" solar systems in size.

Surtur's damage output >>>>>>>>>>>>> Combined Cosmics and Abstracts.

Originally posted by zopzop
Should, is the keyword.

In the Infinity Gauntlet series, Galactus, Stranger, Eon, Order, Chaos, Love, Hate, two Celestials, and Kronos blasted Thanos with everything they had simultaneously and it only managed to destroy the immediate solar system and "many" of the neighboring ones.

Surtur, a being Skyfather level, destroyed an entire galaxy just to forge his sword, by himself.

Galaxy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>"many" solar systems in size.

Surtur's damage output >>>>>>>>>>>>> Combined Cosmics and Abstracts.

I've never heard something so stupid. Galactus alone, when battling Tyrant busted multiple galaxies IIRC. Thats not including any of the other abstracts much less LT.