Jango Fett is not a Mandalorian?

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Anakin_the_Hutt
I loved the "Open Seasons" graphic novel. When I first saw AOTC, I thought Jango was the coolest. In "Open Seasons", it spelled out Jango's origins. An orphaned boy who was picked up and raised by the Mandalorians and eventually, becoming the last of them.

I saw the Clone Wars episode, "The Mandalore Plot" and dude said Jango was just a mere bounty hunter. Said he had no idea how he got his armor.

It confused me, cuz it's spelled out in "Open Seasons" who Jango is. Clearly stated: a Mandalorian. The same in Star Wars: Bounty Hunter (video game).

I got Clone Wars Season 2 on Bluray for X-Mas and on the 2nd disc there's a featurette called, "Creating Mandalore". Dave Filoni and others talked about art direction, style - but then Dave occasionally discussed Jango and Boba. What he said, stumped me even more.

I dictated what he said but, I had to cut it into 4 parts...'cuz other people were interviewed to discuss art design n' stuff. I jotted down, verbatim, his explanation of things.

PART 1

"Now, all the history of Mandalore that you knew prior to the Clone Wars - it does exist. It absolutely exists. Were they a mercenary people? Yes, they absolutely are. Did they fight against the Jedi? Yes, they absolutely did. Is there a big battle where there is a cataclysm between them and the Jedi? Yes. Have we pushed that idea - that the cataclysm was so great, that the surface of Mandalore was laid to waste? Absolutely, we did. Because, to George, the Mandalorians - above all, dating back to ESB - are Supercommandos. They're a race of people that were a military. They can't be so vagabond as they appeared in the EU. They can't be this group of people that are vastly different in paint job and paint scheme because - if you do that, they look too much, immediately, like a bunch of Boba Fetts. It robbed Boba Fett of his uniqueness. We needed a military. We needed an army. They have a very uniform look. They are trying to bring back the ancient Mandalorian ways of being the Supercommando and regain dominion for their mythology, their stories - which is what you could call - is what the EU is. That they are a warrior race and eventually mercenaries."

PART 2

"So, the idea that Jango Fett is not a Mandalorian - that's something that comes directly from George. I think that - when we fist saw Jango in AOTC - that alot of us, myself included, we assumed, "Oh, he must be a Mandalorian. There he is in Mandalorian armor." So, there's kind of this early assumption that Jango must be a Mandalorian. That was interesting to see. But, that was never stated in the film. It's never stated that he's Mandalorian. He's always just referred to as a bounty hunter."

Then they play the clip:

OBI: "I recently encountered a man who wore Mandalorian armor. Jango Fett."

GUY: "Jango Fett was a common bounty hunter. How he acquired that armor is beyond me."

PART 3

"Once you have that silver, blue, black and grey armor - of course, the first thing is: "Well, why is Boba's green? Where is that coming from?" And, from the point that we've established in the Clone Wars - to the point whenever Boba gets his armor - there's one thing that I think is important, is that; Mandalorian armor exists during the Clone Wars. Mandalorian armor that's very close to the design and use of Boba's armor. Boba has tricked his armor out. He's added a few things that our Death Watch guys don't have because he's a bounty hunter and much like a gunslinger in the old west, would shoot someone and take their hat or take their guns or, y'know, you win a victory over another warrior and you take something of theirs - Boba Fett's armor probably is made up of different pieces of found Mandalorian gear. It's a little hodge-podge of mix n' match which I think, kinda leands itself to the idea that he acquires different pieces of Mandalorian armor over time. Why does he do that? Because his dad wore it. That's the connection for him. So I imagine this Mandalorian armor really isn't being created again and again and again when you look at the time of the Empire. Boba just - whenever he finds some of it, he fixes it up, he uses it. He's probably got a bunch of it in Slave 1. Different rocket packs, we've seen that on Boba. Different wristguards, we've seen that on Boba. So how do our Death Watch go from being these silver, prestine-looking uniform military guys - there must be something that happens in between here and where Boba's getting all this weird green and yellow and red armor. Um, and we'll just have to wait and see."

PART 4

"They are an important part of the Clone Wars in alot of ways. In that, they are as much a threat to what Dooku's doing as they are to the Republic. They can't be left unmentioned when you do the Clone Wars. So it was a real previlidge, I think, for myself and my whole crew to be involved in the creation of one of these legendary planets for George and - he was very specific with me on so many things and I'm always glad when he is because at the end of the day, y'know, 10, 20 years from now - that's, that's Mandalore. And when he looks at it, I want him to say, "That's what I pictured." Y'know? And I'm glad that fans now have the opportunity to see what he was thinking. And I look forward to seeing how, what we've done for George with the Mandalorians, effects now the future of the history and those people and what other creative people bring to the table to add to the rich tapestry which now is this unique Star Wars culture. "

End Transmission.

So does this mean that Jango's backstory is now a clean slate? I've gone to wikipedia, wookieepedia, ect. - everyone still calls him a Mandalorian bounty hunter and his "Open Seasons" origin is still intact everywhere. In fact, I've read that the guy who said Jango was just a bounty hunter was...just not aware of him - or he hates Jango - or that the Mandalorians don't recognize Jango's status there.

What's the deal? After hearing Dave Filoni, it seems pretty clear-cut to me that Jango Fett is just, flat-out, not a Mandalorian. Just a bounty hunter who wears Mandalorian gear. The problem is, I don't see reflections of this anywhere in Star Wars Land.

Is "Open Seasons" now just a "Star Wars Tale"? Am I missing something, 'cuz, again, I'm just not seeing any reflections of this HUGE revelation anywhere! In the COMPLETE Star Wars Encyclopedia (2008), does it state that Jango is a Mandalorian bounty hunter or even that he was once a Mandalorian? Or is "Open Seasons" and "Star Wars: Bounty Hunter" the reasons for the "assumption" by fans that he was Mandalorian?

Can someone help clear this up for me?

Lord Lucien
The Mandalorians are supposed to be a collective of warriors from multiple species, not a hereditary clan. KotOR and the relevant EU have established that. There's no reason that Jango Fett can't be a Mandalorian adopted in to their society.




Except for George Lucas. That man's on the verge of f*cking up yet another piece if Star Wars.

truejedi
Well, I believe it was stated somewhere that Jango was adopted into the Mandalorian society. So no, he isn't originally of the mandalorian race, but he is by the events of TPM.

MasterAshenVor
They had Rodians who were Mandalorians.

Darth Truculent
Jango Fett is a direct ancestor of another Fett that Revan and Malak met and fought during the Mandalorian Wars (I believe it was the Mando Wars). So yes, he is a Mandalorian. The Mandalorians were defeated, but they were scattered, but when Jango was cloned, in my opinion, the Clone Wars were an extention of the Mandalorian Wars.

truejedi
direct ancestor? I would like to see that lineage. * skeptical* names just don't last for 2000 years.

Darth Truculent
I read it on a SW site (can't exactly remember which one).

truejedi
ah. well then. Not saying you are wrong, but I find that it strains credulity that a last name of a bounty hunter would survive 2000 years.... Bounty hunting is dangerous work...

Anakin_the_Hutt
Originally posted by truejedi
Well, I believe it was stated somewhere that Jango was adopted into the Mandalorian society. So no, he isn't originally of the mandalorian race, but he is by the events of TPM. It's in Open Seasons...the tie-in with the video game, Star Wars: Bounty Hunter. It spells out his origin and how he became the last of the Mandalorians.

But since Jango is now OFFICIALLY not a Mandalorian - does that mean his origin is a clean slate, 'cuz (like here) everybody still calls him Mandalorian and his Open Seasons origin is still seen as legit.

I got the AOTC Visual Dictionary. It doesn't call him a Mandalorian, but it does say he was adopted and raised by them and continues to wear their armor after he survived their destruction by the Jedi.

In the New Essential Guide to Characters - it doesn't call him a Mandalorian either. It says that after he was orphaned, Jango joined the Mandalorian peacekeepers, a group of nomadic mercenaries with whom he traveled for a few years.

Interestingly, it says Jango slipped away from the Battle of Galidraan - in which the Jedi NEARLY eliminated their outnumbered opponents - and he prepared to go into business for himself as a hunter-for-hire.

Anybody know if they call Jango a Mandalorian in the COMPLETE Star Wars Encyclopedia? Do they mention him being adopted into the Mandalorians and eventually leading them and eventually becoming the last of them? Or is he listed as just a mysterious bounty hunter who wears Mandalorian armor?

Can someone help clear this up? Is Jango's Open Seasons origin now poo-doo thanks to the Lucas Revelation?

truejedi
well, at the very LEAST he is an adopted mandalorian, so its really moot point.

Lord Lucien
Oh yeah, I forgot about Cassus Fett... for good reason. 4,000 years, 160 generations. And the name Fett was handed down every time?


F*ckin Drew Karpyshyn.

Nephthys
Actually Fett is just a generic Manalorian name. In LOTF its explained that its Mandalorian for 'farmer' or something similar.

Lord Lucien
Wookieepedia has an article on the "Fett Clan". I don't know if Mandalorians adopt their clan name as their last name, but with Jango's immediate family, they all possessed it as such. So it's either 4,000 years of lineage being kept within the Mandalorian society and the Fett clan's survival that whole time, or there were possible breaks in the chain and the surname Fett survived 4,000 years.



F*ckin goddamn Drew Karpyshyn.

truejedi
was it 4,000? I thought KOTOR was 2,000 years before TPM.

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by truejedi
was it 4,000? I thought KOTOR was 2,000 years before TPM. no expression

To quote Beauty and the Beast: "GET OUT!"

truejedi
i'm sure i've known in the past... You know how long its been since i've read anything about KOTOR?

mattatom
Don't forget TJ. Bounty Hunters are BadAss they would have had descendants in every spaceport.

Anakin_the_Hutt
Originally posted by truejedi
well, at the very LEAST he is an adopted mandalorian, so its really moot point. But isn't an adopted Mandalorian still - a Mandalorian?

truejedi
exactly. so it doesn't really matter if he is a birth mando or not.

Anakin_the_Hutt
So Jango could never have been adopted into the Mandalorians if he is NOW not a Mandalorian. He just isn't one of them, according to Lucas. I'm sure now he's gonna milk that story potential - Jango's ties to the Mandalorian armor.

truejedi
no, he can be adopted into the mandalorians without being of mandalorian descent, obviously.

besides, unless you missed it, we swore off of lucas's interpretation's of things about the time he said any force powers not shown in the trilogies were non-canon.

Anakin_the_Hutt
But that's just it. If Jango is not Mandalorian, that means he is not one of them. That means he couldn't have joined them in his past. I don't think Lucas was referring to the Battle of Galidraan when he says Jango is not a Mandalorian.

On a side note, he is right - force powers not shown in the trilogies are non-canon.

axel_jovan
Originally posted by Anakin_the_Hutt
On a side note, he is right - force powers not shown in the trilogies are non-canon.

How do you figure?

Anakin_the_Hutt
Just cause someone uses the Force beyond the movie limitations in a video game doesn't make those powers canon.

Jango's backstory has to be a clean slate now. He could never have been a member of the Mandalorians. How else do you interpret OFFICIALLY "he is not of the Mandalorians...but he wears their armor."

Anyone else agree - or is just denial? I LOVE Jango - but now it's like...well, then just who in the hell is Jango? To me, it's damn intriguing. I'd love to see what Lucas' vision of Jango is without the constraints of EU.

Sucks I bought the game and graphic novels. Y'know, Jango killed Gardulla the Hutt in the video game, Star Wars: Bounty Hunter (which takes place before Episode II) - but she came out, recently, starring in an episode of the Clone Wars.

Pwned
Yes the new stuff screwed up the old stuff, and i am now ignoring you for denying Jango is Mandoness.

I despise you -.-

And you agree with a retarded thing, if they arent canon then the only thing that exists is G-canon, and even Lucas said there were others, making him a f*cking hypocrite

The Rover

Lord Lucien

Nephthys
Dunno. What about the new books. Any characters whose power-levels can only be establishes through rigorous forum combat?

Lord Lucien
F*ck FotJ.

truejedi
I am going to finish FOTJ. I'm not going to BUY any of the books, just read them at the bookstore. but FOTJ might be my last book series. For sure it will be if they kill Luke.

But seriously, its only every 4 or 5 months I get a new book. Maybe i'm getting old, but I really am to the point where when it comes to star wars, i just don't care anymore. i don't even bother to fight the Revan fanboys anymore...

Anakin_the_Hutt
The appeal of Star Wars to me years ago was the feeling that all the EU was connected. I loved that. I followed and bought the Clone Wars graphic novels - jumping into the newly released ever-expanding universe. I've been dying to know about the Clone Wars since I was a kid.

Clone Wars TV series came out, killed all that. My nine Volumes...all that crap is now null and void. Jango's backstory - poof - gone. Clone Wars? We won't even begin to know how everything fits until the TV series is over with.

I don't even bother skimming through the comics anymore. Whatever's in there is probably gonna be obsolete in a few months anyway. That show burnt my EU habit.

I own both Seasons on Bluray - it's a GOOD show despite it pissing all over the EU, but I haven't felt the need or desire to buy EU stuff in a VERY long time, either.

I think it's cool that Jango is now mysterious again.

Oh, and I ain't denying Jango his Mandoness. Lucas is. Apparently, he has plans for Jango...his own.

truejedi
Originally posted by Anakin_the_Hutt
The appeal of Star Wars to me years ago was the feeling that all the EU was connected. I loved that. I followed and bought the Clone Wars graphic novels - jumping into the newly released ever-expanding universe. I've been dying to know about the Clone Wars since I was a kid.

Clone Wars TV series came out, killed all that. My nine Volumes...all that crap is now null and void. Jango's backstory - poof - gone. Clone Wars? We won't even begin to know how everything fits until the TV series is over with.

I don't even bother skimming through the comics anymore. Whatever's in there is probably gonna be obsolete in a few months anyway. That show burned my EU habit.

I own both Seasons on Bluray - it's a GOOD show despite it pissing all over the EU, but I haven't felt the need or desire to buy EU stuff in a VERY long time, either.

I think it's cool that Jango is now mysterious again.

Oh, and I ain't denying Jango his Mandoness. Lucas is. Apparently, he has plans for Jango...his own.

I agree, it kinda defeats the purpose when you feel like you really know something, and then they just pull the rug out from under you in the next release, so that your information is no longer valid, and in all honesty you wasted your time and money learning about it. It was fun learning about another universe, but it is now a universe that has ridiculous, unbelievable coincidences, and contradicts itself. That destroys my ability to believe in the universe at all, and killed my interest.

GenomeFrozener
What the hell is going on?

Anakin_the_Hutt
George Lucas retconned Jango Fett's backstory. He's no longer a part of the Mandalorian mythos. He is simply a mysterious bounty hunter who wears Mandalorian armor. How he got it - why he wears it, is all a big mystery now. Despite it all already have been revealed through a graphic novel and video game...AND all the EU after that referenced his Mandalorian origins.

BUT thanks to Lucas - we'll get to see the Jango Fett that he had originally envisioned. Which, to me, is ****ing bad-ass...even though I am amongst the many who coughed up the bread years ago to learn Jango's backstory. But then there are others who view this as Lucas personally going to their house, killing their dog and raping their kids.

I dig it. I'd love to see who Lucas' Jango Fett is.

truejedi
can you please link him ret-conning it? cause it seems like a stretch.

ares834
It's in one of the Clone Wars season 2 commentaries.

Zampanů
This. With new technology and freedom in large part from what he's already written, it will be interesting to see GL cut loose. i suspect that setting things up for Ep. IV was more difficult (for him) than he expected (especially since he wasted an entire 2 hours of screentime on TPM). This may be the first and last chance to see 70s era GL's vision with modern technology.

Anakin_the_Hutt
Originally posted by truejedi
can you please link him ret-conning it? cause it seems like a stretch. Check out the first post on this thread.

Lord Lucien
He doesn't want copy and paste, he wants the link to the website.

Anakin_the_Hutt
What website? I thought he was asking for a link to where Lucas retconned it. It's covered in a Clone Wars Season 2 featurette. Check out the first post. The link to the website...?

Gambler
Actually Lucas just owns the franchise. It doesn't mean that he still has a vision.

Anakin_the_Hutt
He's very involved in the Clone Wars TV series...and there's an upcoming live-action TV series he's involved in also. How can you say he's just the owner and doesn't have a vision?

Lord Lucien
Lucas has intent. His vision is blurred, at best.

Pyron_Knight
I don't want to see what Lucas wants.

JANGO HAS A ****ING BACKSTORY ALREADY.

It was a good one.

Lucas can't write.

HE NEVER COULD

ALL THE MOVIES SUCK

THE ONLY GOOD THINGS ABOUT STAR WARS IS THE EU.

MOTHER****ING GODDAMMIT LUCAS

Jango is a Mandalorian. He's a Mando and so is Boba. THat's their origin and it's well detailed and interesting.

Lucas can't see passed the ****ing dollar signs in his eyes.

Anakin_the_Hutt
Well, I like American Graffiti...THX-1138 is cool. A New Hope and ESB are f*cking awsome. Indiana Jones is cool, too. You actually think the movies suck, but you enjoy reading about them? Jango and Boba are not Mandalorian. Their old EU origin being interesting is just your opinion. Hasn't Boba's origin been in flux since the 2001 announcement of his appearance in AOTC?

He gets bashed because some guy had already written a story about his character. I guess Lucas can't see past the dollar signs in his eyes when he wants to tell the story of his character as he sees it...however horrible it may be. It'd be dumb on his part to limit his original vision 'cuz some kids sh*t their pants at the idea that Jango and Boba are no longer Mandalorian.

"THE ONLY GOOD THINGS ABOUT STAR WARS IS THE EU."

Then get ready, cuz I bet Lucas is gonna milk the Jango and Boba mythos he's gonna create now.

Gambler
Originally posted by Anakin_the_Hutt
He's very involved in the Clone Wars TV series.

OT were good movies. Of prequels TPM was probably the best. Why was OT good? Because there were talented people working with Lucas. And he was still young, his vision was not blindly clouded with green colour.

He shouldn't have allowed any EU material at all. That's his big mistake. Why did he do that? Or at least made some restrictions for definite timelines. And he is a terrible storyteller. He might have a good overall vision, but when it comes to details, it usually looks childish. Replacing Wookies with Ewoks comes to mind.

Lord Lucien
TPM was the best? What?

Gambler
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
TPM was the best? What?

Storywise. ROTS looked rushed and the dialogues were the worst. Action was good though. Many actually agree that TPM storywise was the strongest. Forget Jar Jar. TPM looked more relaxed and there was no annoying grown-up Anakin Skywalker, curse him. I'm not saying EpII and III were bad, but something was missing there. There was more adventure in TPM.

Lord Lucien
Instead of annoying adult Anakin we get even more annoying child Anakin. And crappy Natalie Portman acting. And apathetic Neeson and McGregor acting. And hyper-annoying Jar Jar. And a plot that made sense on the face of it, but on the scale of typical Star Wars stories, was actually very unimportant (save for the the only two things that mattered--Anakin's discovery and Palpatine's election). Everything else was just so inconsequential. I mean in the long run... really, what did the blockade and battle mean? It was boring and mattered little to the saga as a whole. At least AotC gave us the mysterious Clone Wars, RotS killed the Jedi and formed the evil Empire.


TPM had... what? Maul? One movie later how many were reminiscing about how awful the Naboo occupation was? About how many people died (despite the audience never seeing any suffering from them whatsoever)? It is a bad, boring movie. I can't watch it anymore with the glaring flaws in story, acting, and production slapping me in the face. At least the other two movies had some cool battles and visuals. TPM gave us podracing and a lecture on legislative gridlock.

Slash_KMC
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Instead of annoying adult Anakin we get even more annoying child Anakin. And crappy Natalie Portman acting. And apathetic Neeson and McGregor acting. And hyper-annoying Jar Jar. And a plot that made sense on the face of it, but on the scale of typical Star Wars stories, was actually very unimportant (save for the the only two things that mattered--Anakin's discovery and Palpatine's election). Everything else was just so inconsequential. I mean in the long run... really, what did the blockade and battle mean? It was boring and mattered little to the saga as a whole. At least AotC gave us the mysterious Clone Wars, RotS killed the Jedi and formed the evil Empire.


TPM had... what? Maul? One movie later how many were reminiscing about how awful the Naboo occupation was? About how many people died (despite the audience never seeing any suffering from them whatsoever)? It is a bad, boring movie. I can't watch it anymore with the glaring flaws in story, acting, and production slapping me in the face. At least the other two movies had some cool battles and visuals. TPM gave us podracing and a lecture on legislative gridlock.

I think the Maul duel was quite cool.

Lord Lucien
So did I. But I've seen it enough times now to appreciate just how lacking it is in contrast to the other movie duels (AotC excepted, it's still the worst on my list). There just doesn't feel like there's anything on the line. It was essentially two good guys wading in the grass until a wild Sith appeared and Qui-Gon fainted. The single "good" moment was Obi-Wan screaming "No!" because it actually showed that his character was capable of an emotion beyond resentment.

Slash_KMC
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
So did I. But I've seen it enough times now to appreciate just how lacking it is in contrast to the other movie duels (AotC excepted, it's still the worst on my list). There just doesn't feel like there's anything on the line. It was essentially two good guys wading in the grass until a wild Sith appeared and Qui-Gon fainted. The single "good" moment was Obi-Wan screaming "No!" because it actually showed that his character was capable of an emotion beyond resentment.

I thought we were only talking about visuals...

Gambler
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Instead of annoying adult Anakin we get even more annoying child Anakin. And crappy Natalie Portman acting. And apathetic Neeson and McGregor acting. And hyper-annoying Jar Jar. And a plot that made sense on the face of it, but on the scale of typical Star Wars stories, was actually very unimportant (save for the the only two things that mattered--Anakin's discovery and Palpatine's election). Everything else was just so inconsequential. I mean in the long run... really, what did the blockade and battle mean? It was boring and mattered little to the saga as a whole. At least AotC gave us the mysterious Clone Wars, RotS killed the Jedi and formed the evil Empire.


TPM had... what? Maul? One movie later how many were reminiscing about how awful the Naboo occupation was? About how many people died (despite the audience never seeing any suffering from them whatsoever)? It is a bad, boring movie. I can't watch it anymore with the glaring flaws in story, acting, and production slapping me in the face. At least the other two movies had some cool battles and visuals. TPM gave us podracing and a lecture on legislative gridlock.


I have to agree there with you. And I think Count Dooku was actually one of those that made PT interesting. As I was saying, II and III had good action scenes. But I don't need action only, I want story too. Space battle in EpIII was ruined by r2d owning super-battle droids and the stupid droid voices. And Padme was even worse in ROTS, including Anakin. Adventure-wise TPM owned the II and III. Dialogues were better in TPM, like it or not. The Naboo blockade made no sense, but still I liked the adventure. I hated all that midi-whatnot thing, small Anakin and cheesy Naboo, but the adventure was good nevertheless. Yes, II and III were clone wars related, or close to it, but it was again poorly presented. I somehow got more understanding of the Jedi in TPM, than in AOTC and ROTS. ROTS was rushed and too childish too. You can find good and bad things in any of PT.

I thought the whole idea with the Naboo conflict was that Palpatine stirred shit across the galaxy, to find an excuses for CIS to wage a war.

Gambler
And I just want to clarify my comment, where I said that Lucas shouldn't have allowed EU. Well, the EU is good, very good, I love it (except that it's too overcrowded sometimes with the Sith), but if he simply dissolves many established facts after they've been around for ages, why allow those facts to be established in the first place?

Slash_KMC
Originally posted by Gambler
And I just want to clarify my comment, where I said that Lucas shouldn't have allowed EU. Well, the EU is good, very good, I love it (except that it's too overcrowded sometimes with the Sith), but if he simply dissolves many established facts after they've been around for ages, why allow those facts to be established in the first place?

Overcrowded with Sith? Don't you think you're overreacting a little?

*Looks at swtor.com* Damnit, I agree with you.

Anakin_the_Hutt
Uh, the EU is what funded the movies. Lucas practically created movie merchandising. A New Hope is the most successful independant film ever made. The toys, T-shirts, books and comics put money back in his pocket so he could make more movies. He did give restrictions back in the day - re: the Clone Wars and gave insight re: his personal notes regarding Obi-Wan's fight with Anakin and yes...EVEN MIDICHLORIANS back in the 70s.

No one could have predicted the Prequels, let alone Episode IV being a success. Lucas gambled for merchandising rights and it paid off. It's not that he doesn't care about the EU, it's that he's not letting it limit himself in a universe HE created. Didn't he add Aayla Secura to the films? And the Outrider in A New Hope? Look at what they (CWTV) did to Asajj Ventress' backstory. It's similar to how it is in the comics, but it obviously has been looked over and accommodated to Lucas' vision.

People may see it as blasphemy, but there are people who understand why. When Lucas is in the ground and the next generation sees the movies and watches the cartoons for the first time - they're NOT going to flip their shit because of how it was in the novels or comics. EU has been evolving since the Prequels came out. The EU is now evolving with this Clone Wars TV series - all because of Lucas. He's delivering HIS stories at the price of being bashed by his "most loyal fans". I think he cares more about Star Wars than his rep.

Anakin_the_Hutt
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I mean in the long run... really, what did the blockade and battle mean? It was boring and mattered little to the saga as a whole. At least AotC gave us the mysterious Clone Wars, RotS killed the Jedi and formed the evil Empire.

The blockade meant that a planet can be subjucated and the Republic wouldn't do anything about it. The battle meant to liberate the planet without the Republic's help.

It showed how pathetic the Republic was and how strong the character of our newly introduced heroes were.

It mattered MUCH to the saga as a whole - because of the blockade and the weakness the Republic showed, Palpatine was elected to fix things. If you don't see how that matters to the saga as a whole...then you need to watch TPM again. The blockade is the whole launching point of the saga in every way, buddy.

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by Anakin_the_Hutt
The blockade meant that a planet can be subjucated and the Republic wouldn't do anything about it. The battle meant to liberate the planet without the Republic's help.

It showed how pathetic the Republic was and how strong the character of our newly introduced heroes were.

It mattered MUCH to the saga as a whole - because of the blockade and the weakness the Republic showed, Palpatine was elected to fix things. If you don't see how that matters to the saga as a whole...then you need to watch TPM again. The blockade is the whole launching point of the saga in every way, buddy. And all of that could have been achieved with a situation that actually feels like it means something. The goal of a movie shouldn't just be "whether it fit", it should also immerse the audience. I did not give two f*cks about what happened to Naboo. It is never told or shown why that planet matters, just that it exists and we're supposed to understand that everyone else in the movie cares.


Which, incidentally, they aren't shown to. Portman/Knightley's stiff acting hints--hints that she cares. Panaka doesn't. The handmaidens do nothing. Ric Olie doesn't. The only Nubian who seems even remotely concerned is Sio Bibble, until we learn that his character is literally being forced to act like he cares. The Jedi are lax about the situation, the Senate is lax, Valorum (who is the strongest supporter) actually looks bored.


No one in the movie cares about Naboo and the "catastrophic death toll", so why should the audience?

Anakin_the_Hutt
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
No one in the movie cares about Naboo and the "catastrophic death toll", so why should the audience?

Yeah, you either need to watch the movie again or your hate has, flat-out, blinded you.

Zampanů
http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/[email protected]@._V1._CR256,0,1024,1024_SS100_.jpghttp://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/[email protected]@._V1._CR256,0,1024,1024_SS100_.jpghttp://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/[email protected]@._V1._CR256,0,1024,1024_SS100_.jpghttp://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/[email protected]@._V1._CR256,0,1024,1024_SS100_.jpghttp://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMTIwMTgwOTI4OV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTYwMDM0Mzc3._V1._CR0,0,461,461_SS100_.jpghttp://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMTg2MjQ4OTUxMF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTYwNzg0NDc4._V1._CR37,0,216,216_SS100_.jpg

Lord Lucien

SIDIOUS 66

RagingBoner
I think a lot of the intense PT-bashing is merely a contagious epidemic.

Now with that said, I also believe many of the criticisms leveled at the prequels are valid. My single greatest complaint about TPM is that the whole thing is an inconsequential ruse for Palpatine's election.

Anakin_the_Hutt
Well, Qui-Gon seemed pretty convincing to me. So was Bibble when they were both trying to convince the Queen to get the hell outta Dodge and bring back help.

So was Qui-Gon's and Obi-Wan's reaction to the invasion army they stumbled across onboard the Federation Ship. Qui-Gon's immediate reaction was to warn the Naboo and contact the Supreme Chancellor. I believed he gave a crap. Obi-Wan's stupid joke should've gotten him a slap in the face...3 Stooges-style.

Why would the Chancellor secretly send out 2 Jedi to resolve the blockade matter if no one cared? I don't think he would send out 2 Jedi if they blockaded a Garbage planet. The fact that Naboo is inhabited and a part of the Republic is the reason Naboo is "important". It doesn't contain the Holy Grail or anything "Saga-wise", the fact that innocent people are being held hostage there makes the place "important". The fact that it's Palpatine's home, makes the sympathy work for him in getting elected.

Why do you keep referring to Bibble's concern "acting". He sent out a message with a gun to his head asking Padme to establish contact with him...every time his concern is shown, I do believe it's meant to be genuine.

Zampanů
You are confusing in-universe and out-of-universe criticism. LL isn't upset at the narrative arc of TPM itself (although there are valid criticisms there, as well) but rather the utter lack of anything resembling competence from the actors. The entire film is an exercise in ennui and suffers a general malaise that all the racist stereotypes in the world couldn't leaven. (Personally, I find the mistake to be one of its place in the super-arc of the trilogy; a trade dispute is boring and there are much better ways to introduce Anakin/Palpatine's rise.)

truejedi
Originally posted by ares834
It's in one of the Clone Wars season 2 commentaries.
I believe movie is higher canon though, right?

Anakin_the_Hutt
Ooooh...so this is all a "I didn't FEEL IT from the actors" kinda-thing. Oh, I thought he was...okay. Yeah, I mean - sure, the actors could've done a better job in believing they cared about Naboo. Sure. I thought you...ah, nevermind.

I believe Movie Canon is the highest, but Boba and Jango aren't ever referred to as Mandalorians in the movies. Lucas says they aren't Mandalorian...is THAT canon? Is Lucas himself the highest form of canon? I think he can drop some canon down on commentaries and featurettes.

Lord Lucien
The old saying in film goes "Show, don't tell." We have to be told that Naboo means something, which is far less effective at immersing the audience than showing. Weird thing is, they didn't really tell us either.


And terrible acting aside, the Naboo crisis was irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. It's one thing to show us an entirely CGI battle and some nifty spaceships, but in the end, the entire blockade, invasion, and battle seemed like it accomplished nothing. Palpatine and Anakin, that was it. The whole prequel trilogy could have started off roughly where AotC comes in (with a number of tweaks, of course).


But that's a story for another time...

truejedi
Lucas said it? I'm still hoping someone links that...

and I thought they were referred to as Mandos.

Anakin_the_Hutt
Dude, just look up the featurette on youtube. It's called, "Creating Mandalore". It's a featurette for Clone Wars: Season 2.

RagingBoner
I don't hate The Phantom Menace by any means, though I am cognizant of its many flaws and unnecessary quirks. But, essentially, Lucien is correct: There were many better ways in which one could introduce the story. Rather, TPM comes off like an afterthought compared to Attack of the Clones and The Revenge of the Sith. In terms of the larger arc, its only significance is that the events of the story are orchestrated by Palpatine to ensure his election. To sum it up, though Anakin is ostensibly the protagonist, the end reveals that it's simply all about Palpatine.

Lord Lucien
I love how you consider all of your words to be such a revelation that they require spoiler alerts.


But bang on, nonetheless.

Gambler
Originally posted by Slash_KMC
Overcrowded with Sith? Don't you think you're overreacting a little?

*Looks at swtor.com* Damnit, I agree with you.

Just look after TESB. One sith cult after another popping up. Sith in Luke's era, new Sith in Legacy era. And many of them.

Lord Lucien
You got Lumiya, Carnor Jax, Reborn Palpatine, Disciples of Ragnos, Caedus, The Lost Tribe (all within 40 years). And during and after that you have the One Sith. In less than two centuries you get all these individuals and groups with the Sith titles.


Before that you have the Ancient Sith, Sith Empire-in-Exile, Sorcerers of Tund, Freedon Nadd, the Naddists, the Krath, Brotherhood of the Sith, Revan and Malak, Sith Triumvirate, Brotherhood of Darkness, Mecrosa, Dark Force, and finally the Rule of Two.


Jebus...

Gambler
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Y
Before that you have the Ancient Sith, Sith Empire-in-Exile, Sorcerers of Tund, Freedon Nadd, the Naddists, the Krath, Brotherhood of the Sith, Revan and Malak, Sith Triumvirate, Brotherhood of Darkness, Mecrosa, Dark Force, and finally the Rule of Two.
Jebus...

The difference is that those before the New Republic are all in a span of 5000 years or more.

ares834
Originally posted by truejedi
I believe movie is higher canon though, right?

It is but nothing in the movie itself actually says Jango is a mandaloiran. Anyway, while I can't find the featurette of Filioni saying Lucas says Jango is not a Mandalorian I have found this. Watch at about 2:00 the guy denys that Jango was a mandalorian.

Gambler
Originally posted by ares834
It is but nothing in the movie itself actually says Jango is a mandaloiran. Anyway, while I can't find the featurette of Filioni saying Lucas says Jango is not a Mandalorian I have found this. Watch at about 2:00 the guy denys that Jango was a mandalorian.

Interesting that Lucasfims still haven't taken down those episodes.

When that Mandalorian says to Obi-wan that "Mandalorian violent past is behind them", comes to mind Lucas' pacifistic Endor, where a bunch of teddy-bears defeated Palpatine's best stormtrooper Legion. Lucas lets his pacifism interfere with the whole idea of "war", you can see that by his strange conception of waging a war in OT, as well as in PT. Should have hired a military adviser. He could have shown Mandalorians not as hippie pacifists, but simply as a militaristic culture, that has suspended it's active role in the Galactic wars.

Zampanů
Lucas is a pacifist wut?

RE: Blaxican
I'm pretty sure he is, actually.

RagingBoner
I rather like the idea of the New Mandalorians; I can't imagine a culture that has routinely had its ass kicked by the greater galaxy over the course of four millennia wouldn't consider changing their ways. It also enables us to explore a terrorist organization in the form of the Death Watch.

Gambler
Originally posted by Anakin_the_Hutt
Uh, the EU is what funded the movies.

Well then you are contradicting your argument. If EU made the future of SW possible, then Lucas should make a double-effort to keep his work as close to EU as possible. Especially if EU contributed from the financial aspect to the PT. And it was EU that kept SW alive when Lucas abandoned SW.

RagingBoner
Like it or not, the films have been and always will be the primary source of the Star Wars franchise in terms of profit, fandom, and legacy. That doesn't mean that there aren't EU works of superior quality to any of the movies, but the films will always mean far more where the public is concerned. And it is for this very reason that George has no regard for the EU, though he probably should for consistency's sake.

darth radon
WOOOW!! I takes over three pages of posts to state something so.... simple!
once jango's parents were killed in the war the death watch took him in gave him some scrounged up armor and weapons, and set him off.
then he had Boba fett cloned exactly like him. traits, skill,etc.


^_.

Anakin_the_Hutt
I'm contradicting my argument? I'm stating a fact. You're argument is that Lucas should work as hard as possible to fit his vision to the EU. How in the hell am I contradicting my argument?

What we got here is blatant denial, which I admit, I find absolutely fascinating. "It doesn't matter what Lucas says, the author from the 90s says Boba is this way - so THAT'S IT!"

This Clone Wars TV series is gonna create a rift. It brought back a dead Eeth Koth, Darth Maul, Gardulla the Hutt - stripped way Jango and Boba's Mandoness...and I bet there's more to come. People are gonna follow LUCAS' Star Wars and people are gonna remain in denial, living in their outdated 90s novels.

Personally, I prefer the author of Star Wars as the definitive source. I love the EU, but I do know there's only one real author to this stuff.

Anakin_the_Hutt
There was 16 years worth of EU in the time between ROTJ and TPM.

Check this out...it's a list of stuff from licensed EU creators that have appeared in the films. From Timothy Zahn's 1991 Coruscant to Aayla Secura.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_C-canon_elements_in_the_movies

As far as the notion that Lucas has TOTAL disregard for the EU, that's dumb. He's just not letting the EU limit himself...as he did with the Prequels. It's just hard for people to accept that the Fett's are no longer Mandalorian. sad They just wear Mandalorian Gear.

Lord Lucien
I find it easy. Probably because I never cared about Jango or Boba.

Anakin_the_Hutt
Oh.

Zampanů
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I find it easy. Probably because I never cared about Jango or Boba.
thumb up

Anakin_the_Hutt
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Wookieepedia has an article on the "Fett Clan". I don't know if Mandalorians adopt their clan name as their last name, but with Jango's immediate family, they all possessed it as such. So it's either 4,000 years of lineage being kept within the Mandalorian society and the Fett clan's survival that whole time, or there were possible breaks in the chain and the surname Fett survived 4,000 years.



F*ckin goddamn Drew Karpyshyn. You should read the whole thread before you 'thumbs up' this guy.

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by Anakin_the_Hutt
You should read the whole thread before you 'thumbs up' this guy. You're really taking a disliking to me. I've gotta stop being so good at bringing at that out in people.



Caring about the continuity and probability within Star Wars canon is not the same as caring about the character the situation is specifically referring to.

Anakin_the_Hutt
That's impossible because I don't know you. Okay, fine. You don't care about Jango or Boba Fett...just their effect on the continuity.

Lord Lucien
There ya go.

truejedi
Originally posted by Anakin_the_Hutt
I'm contradicting my argument? I'm stating a fact. You're argument is that Lucas should work as hard as possible to fit his vision to the EU. How in the hell am I contradicting my argument?

What we got here is blatant denial, which I admit, I find absolutely fascinating. "It doesn't matter what Lucas says, the author from the 90s says Boba is this way - so THAT'S IT!"

This Clone Wars TV series is gonna create a rift. It brought back a dead Eeth Koth, Darth Maul, Gardulla the Hutt - stripped way Jango and Boba's Mandoness...and I bet there's more to come. People are gonna follow LUCAS' Star Wars and people are gonna remain in denial, living in their outdated 90s novels.

Personally, I prefer the author of Star Wars as the definitive source. I love the EU, but I do know there's only one real author to this stuff.

Actually, pretty sure that Eeth Koth just died in Jedi Twilight. Its a bit too early to ret-con that.

truejedi
and there isn't just one real author. there are multiple authors.

Anakin_the_Hutt
Eeth Koth has been dead in the EU since 2003.

Lord Lucien
Inside the Worlds of Star Wars: Attack of the Clones, published in 2003, stated that Koth died during the Battle of Geonosis when his gunship was brought down by enemy fire. However, Koth was mentioned as fighting in the Clone Wars in the 2008 novel Wild Space. When "Grievous Intrigue," a 2010 episode of Star Wars: The Clone Wars was being written, series supervising director Dave Filoni wanted to use Koth, but was told by both Leland Chee, keeper of the Holocron continuity database, and Pablo Hidalgo, Internet Content Manager for Lucas Online, that the character was dead. Filoni then received permission from George Lucas to resurrect the character. Koth had been slated to die at the beginning of "Grievous Intrigue," but Filoni decided that he was an interesting enough character to use in future episodes of the series.


By George! He's alive.

RE: Blaxican
LOL. That is a huge **** you to Leland Chee. **** Dave Filoni for that.

truejedi
I was thinking of Evan Piel this morning.

axel_jovan
That's .... interesting.

Anakin_the_Hutt
Yeah - Even Piell has been dead in the EU since 2008. I got the comic where Yarael Poof dies, I wouldn't be surprised if he shows up in an episode at this point.

Anakin_the_Hutt
WHOA!!! Okay, so I'm looking for info on any new upcoming Jango origin projects being released...and f*ckin' lookie at what I find.

I find 2 threads VEEEERY "similar" to this topic...with MY transcripted opening as their opening! COMPLETE WITH TYPOS!!!!

"PART 2

"So, the idea that Jango Fett is not a Mandalorian - that's something that comes directly from George. I think that - when we fist saw Jango in AOTC-"

TYPO: when we "FIST" saw Jango

http://www.narutoforums.com/showthread.php?t=716296


http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=187553&highlight=jango


Bastards stole my topic and then jacked my script. Seriously. I've been jocked. Didn't even credit me. Booooo...

Zampanů
this outrageous example of plagarism is the strongest case ive evr seen u can take these goonz 2 court!

u should totally report it!

Lord Lucien
A.) When I read "fist", I read it like an Australian saying "first".

B.) What script, to what, are you talking about?

C.) Jango's origins are interesting?

Anakin_the_Hutt
Apparently, interesting enough that the transcript I typed out is being utilized elsewhere. I find that funny.

It is a strong case. I think I will sue. I'll sue for not being credited for typing.

Lord Lucien
I'll say it again... what transcript?

Anakin_the_Hutt
Check out the first post...the one before yours.

Lord Lucien
Ah, I see. So were you serious about suing? I've never heard of a law that protects people who have quoted the words of others, especially in a public internet forum.

Anakin_the_Hutt
Nope, I wasn't being serious about suing.

KalSkirata
Originally posted by Anakin_the_Hutt
I loved the "Open Seasons" graphic novel. When I first saw AOTC, I thought Jango was the coolest. In "Open Seasons", it spelled out Jango's origins. An orphaned boy who was picked up and raised by the Mandalorians and eventually, becoming the last of them.

I saw the Clone Wars episode, "The Mandalore Plot" and dude said Jango was just a mere bounty hunter. Said he had no idea how he got his armor.

It confused me, cuz it's spelled out in "Open Seasons" who Jango is. Clearly stated: a Mandalorian. The same in Star Wars: Bounty Hunter (video game).

I got Clone Wars Season 2 on Bluray for X-Mas and on the 2nd disc there's a featurette called, "Creating Mandalore". Dave Filoni and others talked about art direction, style - but then Dave occasionally discussed Jango and Boba. What he said, stumped me even more.

I dictated what he said but, I had to cut it into 4 parts...'cuz other people were interviewed to discuss art design n' stuff. I jotted down, verbatim, his explanation of things.

PART 1

"Now, all the history of Mandalore that you knew prior to the Clone Wars - it does exist. It absolutely exists. Were they a mercenary people? Yes, they absolutely are. Did they fight against the Jedi? Yes, they absolutely did. Is there a big battle where there is a cataclysm between them and the Jedi? Yes. Have we pushed that idea - that the cataclysm was so great, that the surface of Mandalore was laid to waste? Absolutely, we did. Because, to George, the Mandalorians - above all, dating back to ESB - are Supercommandos. They're a race of people that were a military. They can't be so vagabond as they appeared in the EU. They can't be this group of people that are vastly different in paint job and paint scheme because - if you do that, they look too much, immediately, like a bunch of Boba Fetts. It robbed Boba Fett of his uniqueness. We needed a military. We needed an army. They have a very uniform look. They are trying to bring back the ancient Mandalorian ways of being the Supercommando and regain dominion for their mythology, their stories - which is what you could call - is what the EU is. That they are a warrior race and eventually mercenaries."

PART 2

"So, the idea that Jango Fett is not a Mandalorian - that's something that comes directly from George. I think that - when we fist saw Jango in AOTC - that alot of us, myself included, we assumed, "Oh, he must be a Mandalorian. There he is in Mandalorian armor." So, there's kind of this early assumption that Jango must be a Mandalorian. That was interesting to see. But, that was never stated in the film. It's never stated that he's Mandalorian. He's always just referred to as a bounty hunter."

Then they play the clip:

OBI: "I recently encountered a man who wore Mandalorian armor. Jango Fett."

GUY: "Jango Fett was a common bounty hunter. How he acquired that armor is beyond me."

PART 3

"Once you have that silver, blue, black and grey armor - of course, the first thing is: "Well, why is Boba's green? Where is that coming from?" And, from the point that we've established in the Clone Wars - to the point whenever Boba gets his armor - there's one thing that I think is important, is that; Mandalorian armor exists during the Clone Wars. Mandalorian armor that's very close to the design and use of Boba's armor. Boba has tricked his armor out. He's added a few things that our Death Watch guys don't have because he's a bounty hunter and much like a gunslinger in the old west, would shoot someone and take their hat or take their guns or, y'know, you win a victory over another warrior and you take something of theirs - Boba Fett's armor probably is made up of different pieces of found Mandalorian gear. It's a little hodge-podge of mix n' match which I think, kinda leands itself to the idea that he acquires different pieces of Mandalorian armor over time. Why does he do that? Because his dad wore it. That's the connection for him. So I imagine this Mandalorian armor really isn't being created again and again and again when you look at the time of the Empire. Boba just - whenever he finds some of it, he fixes it up, he uses it. He's probably got a bunch of it in Slave 1. Different rocket packs, we've seen that on Boba. Different wristguards, we've seen that on Boba. So how do our Death Watch go from being these silver, prestine-looking uniform military guys - there must be something that happens in between here and where Boba's getting all this weird green and yellow and red armor. Um, and we'll just have to wait and see."

PART 4

"They are an important part of the Clone Wars in alot of ways. In that, they are as much a threat to what Dooku's doing as they are to the Republic. They can't be left unmentioned when you do the Clone Wars. So it was a real previlidge, I think, for myself and my whole crew to be involved in the creation of one of these legendary planets for George and - he was very specific with me on so many things and I'm always glad when he is because at the end of the day, y'know, 10, 20 years from now - that's, that's Mandalore. And when he looks at it, I want him to say, "That's what I pictured." Y'know? And I'm glad that fans now have the opportunity to see what he was thinking. And I look forward to seeing how, what we've done for George with the Mandalorians, effects now the future of the history and those people and what other creative people bring to the table to add to the rich tapestry which now is this unique Star Wars culture. "

End Transmission.

So does this mean that Jango's backstory is now a clean slate? I've gone to wikipedia, wookieepedia, ect. - everyone still calls him a Mandalorian bounty hunter and his "Open Seasons" origin is still intact everywhere. In fact, I've read that the guy who said Jango was just a bounty hunter was...just not aware of him - or he hates Jango - or that the Mandalorians don't recognize Jango's status there.

What's the deal? After hearing Dave Filoni, it seems pretty clear-cut to me that Jango Fett is just, flat-out, not a Mandalorian. Just a bounty hunter who wears Mandalorian gear. The problem is, I don't see reflections of this anywhere in Star Wars Land.

Is "Open Seasons" now just a "Star Wars Tale"? Am I missing something, 'cuz, again, I'm just not seeing any reflections of this HUGE revelation anywhere! In the COMPLETE Star Wars Encyclopedia (2008), does it state that Jango is a Mandalorian bounty hunter or even that he was once a Mandalorian? Or is "Open Seasons" and "Star Wars: Bounty Hunter" the reasons for the "assumption" by fans that he was Mandalorian?

Can someone help clear this up for me?
Jango Fett is a mandalorian,and boba fett probably did get different mandalorian armor parts and colored them that way.

Ice-3oy
In the Jango Fett comic series, the True Mandalorians faced off against the Death Watch, Jango was adopted by the leader of the True Mandalorians, so A he is a Mandalorian and B the Death Watch doesn't think he belongs to the Mandalorians, because he was their Enemy and he killed Vizsla the leader of the Death Watch. So he is a Mandalorian, but not in the eyes of the Death Watch.

juyomaster34
This is BS....Jango imo is mandalorian....when a mandalorian take you in or you join their crusade,
clan,whatever...you're Mando'a....end of discussion...case closed...I read open season....l loved it..
the game I bought four months ago...played a little...started to feel funny...I missed my PS3....

I read this entire thread...imo the original was focused on one family...one set of force powers...boring
EU has more than one family and the Force powers are better...imo..greater...
Lucas waited too long to do another SW movie...the originals are too old....
we need a new story...a new family...Skywalker is a closed chapter...
if this movie is about Anakin or Luke...I'm not watching it......

It's too many books about them anyway.....if your'e taking about ridiculous FPs....
Then read everything NJO....That's why I'm on this forum...EU is different...anything is possible...
We get to see Life and the Force...before Luke and Anakin.....

Imo if he wants a clean slate w/Jango then...that means imo that someone other than Lucas ..
is planning another resurrection....The Jango..Mace killed could have been a clone....and the real
Jango is still alive..... Why wait all these years to say (wink,wink) did you Jango is really not
Mando'a....he's Echani or Corellian or ?????

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