Team Lantern vs. Team Cosmic

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byrdgang21
Hal Jordan (Parallax)
Kyle Rayner (Ion)
Sinestro (White Lantern)
Alan Scott (Starheart)


Vs.


Jean Grey (Phoenix of WC)
Michael Korvac
Molecule Man
Franklin Richards (full potential)

Who wins?

Gecko4lif
my retard-o-meter is going off

zopzop
Dude anyone of Team 2 can possibly SOLO Team 1.

Galan007
^ Depends. If this is ZH Parallax, then he is the top dog in this battle, feat-wise.

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Galan007
^ Depends. If this is ZH Parallax, then he is the top dog in this battle, feat-wise.

With his Chaos Wave like feat? Nah.

He applied his power to an extradimensional place of chronal/spatial importance and didnt that escalate the damage across reality for him?

Thats like disrupting the workings of the M'kraan crystal resulting in that wiping out reality.

Or similar to how the Chaos Wave struck Otherworld a similar extra-dimensional place of chronal/spatial significance resulting in a domino effect. An escalation of the initial application of power.

No proof through alternative feats that Parallax could have wiped out time space through his own internal resources.

Its a great feat in terms of consequential destruction though.

MrMind
zh parallax stalemated spectre and re-created dcu, He got better feats than wpotc and yes he can take her.
original ion is the right hand of god, korvac isn't even in the league. white lantern entity connect all life in the universe. but pre-retcon molecule man can defeat him.
and true franklin richards is powerful but he doesn't have the reaction time to counter the blitze. starheart only chance is blitze the kid as soon as the battle started.
is this pre-retcon molecule man? because if it is marvel team can win, but if it's not I definitely give it to dc.

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by MrMind
zh parallax stalemated spectre and re-created dcu, He got better feats than wpotc and yes he can take her.


Parallax didnt recreate the universe as stated on panel he used chronal energies and therefore time manipulation to reverse what had been done.

Great feat. Not beyond Jean Grey.

Sirius77
ZH Parallax. If it isn't ZH, then this match up is ridiculous.

Uriel005
... Anyone could solo from team 2. Future Franklin full potential and Jean Grey White Crown is spite hard against team 1. Pre-Ret Molecule man is as well. Depending on the showing Korvac is Spite too. you'd have to take absolute highest showing from team lantern and Absolute lowest from team cosmic to make this remotely debatable and even then the best I see Lantern pulling is 3-4/10 at an absolute best.

Prep-Man
Team Lanter if it's ZH Parallax.

MrMind
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Parallax didnt recreate the universe as stated on panel he used chronal energies and therefore time manipulation to reverse what had been done.

Great feat. Not beyond Jean Grey.

He did actually, look at the scan, "blank page of creation, remake everything"
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/2682/36zerohour00page02.th.jpg
http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/2210/36zerohour00page03.th.jpg
http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/5493/36zerohour00page04.th.jpg
look at the scan, it seems pretty clear to me that he did
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/632/36zerohour00page06.th.jpg
http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/9917/36zerohour00page07.th.jpg
and what he did in emerald knights make me believe that he's definitely more powerful than wpotc
he collapsed timelines and alternate realities, that puts him on multiversal scale
http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/7219/1474593parallaxemeraldk.th.png
http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/1973/1429978parallaxdestroys.th.jpg
wpotc barely has feats, parallax triumph her

WhiteWitchKing
Team one edges them out. ZH Parallax over POTWC who was only able to operate at that level in the heart of creation and all she did was change Scott's mind.

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by MrMind
He did actually, look at the scan, "blank page of creation, remake everything"
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/2682/36zerohour00page02.th.jpg
http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/2210/36zerohour00page03.th.jpg
http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/5493/36zerohour00page04.th.jpg
look at the scan, it seems pretty clear to me that he did
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/632/36zerohour00page06.th.jpg
http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/9917/36zerohour00page07.th.jpg
and what he did in emerald knights make me believe that he's definitely more powerful than wpotc
he collapsed timelines and alternate realities, that puts him on multiversal scale
http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/7219/1474593parallaxemeraldk.th.png
http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/1973/1429978parallaxdestroys.th.jpg
wpotc barely has feats, parallax triumph her

If you read the scans you'll see that Parallax was using chronal energies.

You dont make things with time manipulation. He simply rewound time. erm

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Team one edges them out. ZH Parallax over POTWC who was only able to operate at that level in the heart of creation and all she did was change Scott's mind.

Oh please. Outside of the White Hot Room Jean Grey telekinetically amputated the HCT timeline giving precedence for a cosmic level of telekinesis.

She then went on to materialize through atomic manipulation what we were told was the universe.

Given Jeans feat outside of the WHR and given that we were told she materialized the universe through her telekinesis and no mention on panel was made of some fantasized power up she got from being in the WHR your point is unsupported and false.

Do come harder Queenie smile

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by MrMind
He did actually, look at the scan, "blank page of creation, remake everything"
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/2682/36zerohour00page02.th.jpg
http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/2210/36zerohour00page03.th.jpg
http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/5493/36zerohour00page04.th.jpg
look at the scan, it seems pretty clear to me that he did
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/632/36zerohour00page06.th.jpg
http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/9917/36zerohour00page07.th.jpg
and what he did in emerald knights make me believe that he's definitely more powerful than wpotc
he collapsed timelines and alternate realities, that puts him on multiversal scale
http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/7219/1474593parallaxemeraldk.th.png
http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/1973/1429978parallaxdestroys.th.jpg
wpotc barely has feats, parallax triumph her

Furthermore Parallax never erased timelines directly through his own power, he did so by applying his power to an extra dimensional place of chronal/spatial significance. This triggered the resultant damage.

The equivalent of disrupting the M'kraan crystal triggering multiversal destruction erm

Jean casually and directly can and has wiped out timelines through her own power.

Uriel005
Franklin Richards recreating Galactus and Several universes at toddler stage... Future Potential =??????????? WTF PWNED

WhiteWitchKing
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Oh please. Outside of the White Hot Room Jean Grey telekinetically amputated the HCT timeline giving precedence for a cosmic level of telekinesis.

She then went on to materialize through atomic manipulation what we were told was the universe.

Given Jeans feat outside of the WHR and given that we were told she materialized the universe through her telekinesis and no mention on panel was made of some fantasized power up she got from being in the WHR your point is unsupported and false.

Do come harder Queenie smile

Outside? Pure bullsh!t from you is nothing new. It's highest feat was inside the WHR. Destroying timelines is what Adam Warlock with just the soul gem can do.

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Outside? Pure bullsh!t from you is nothing new. It's highest feat was inside the WHR. Destroying timelines is what Adam Warlock with just the soul gem can do.

Good for Adam. Why dont you present scans showing exactly how he did that. Furthermore if thats the case then your point also affects Parallax so thats cool son wink

Yes. Prior to entering the crystal Jean destroyed the HCT timeline therefore giving precedence for the high level of telekinesis also displayed within the crystal. Your point is dump shit smile

Please find a reference on panel stating that Jean got some kind of powerup being in the crystal or drop your sh*t

She has used her telekinesis for universal scale feats, the scene states she was manipulating the atoms of the universe with her telekinesis and thats that. big grin

Galan007
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
He applied his power to an extradimensional place of chronal/spatial importance and didnt that escalate the damage across reality for him? His creation destroying blast was released from the end of time, but I don't recall it being stated that it escalated said blasts capability (it's been forever since I've read that series, though.)

Anyhow, ZH Parallax...
a.) was capable of one-shottng powerhouses such as Time Trapper and Extant (who, himself, was a confirmed universe-buster.)
b.) destroyed all creation.
c.) began building a new creation in it's wake from scratch.
d.) was contending with the likes of Spectre (among many others) WHILE he was simultaneously creating his new universe.

...And that's all on panel, with no wanking added.

If this is ZH Parallax, the Lantern team wins imo.

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Galan007
His creation destroying blast was released from the end of time, but I don't recall it being stated that it escalated said blasts capability (it's been forever since I've read that series, though.)


He never unleashed a creation destroying blast. He applied pressure to the end of time which caused entropy to rush through creation and that wiped out reality. So like i said he triggered it, akin to DDweller in the Darkness triggering the destruction of the previous multiverse by applying his power to the M'kraan crystal. Its not something Parallax did through his own power and he has no showings to suggest he could.

Originally posted by Galan007
Anyhow, ZH Parallax...
a.) was capable of one-shottng powerhouses such as Time Trapper and Extant (who, himself, was a confirmed universe-buster.)
b.) destroyed all creation.
c.) began building a new creation in it's wake from scratch.
d.) was contending with the likes of Spectre (among many others) WHILE he was simultaneously creating his new universe.

...And that's all on panel, with no wanking added.

If this is ZH Parallax, the Lantern team wins imo.

a) Means nothing conclusive. A sniper could one shot Magneto in the right circumstances.

b) Triggered the destruction.

c) Nope, he used chronal energies and therefore time manipulation to selectively undo the damage.

d) I dont recall him taking on Spectre whilst simultaneously manipulating time to bring back creation. He may have been in the middle of reversing time and then stopped to take on the heroes but im sure it wasnt literally simultaneous. Im unsure. You got scans?

Either way, what isnt in doubt is that Parallax triggered Entropy to sweep through creation. He never destroyed reality through his own power. Furthermore he never created reality as such, he used chronal energies and therefore time manipulation to selectively bring back desirable elements of what used to be.

zopzop
@GalacticStorm, Galan, WWK

I can't comment on the ZH Parallax scans, I don't read much DC. I just thought he was basically Green Lantern Prime. But if GS is right and all he did was "apply pressure on a choke point" if you will, then his feat isn't impressive at all.

If Galan is right and he remade the entire DC multiverse using nothing but his own power, then he obviously soloes the whole crew.

Regarding the PF, I posted scans from Marvel in another thread stating :
a) a multiverse is a collection of 616 and all parallel universes (what if's, alternate earths, pocket dimensions, etc...) confirmed on panel and in handbooks
b) the M'krann Crystal exists on all planes of reality in the multiverse simultaneously (it's been called "the nexus of all realities"wink and this is confirmed on panel and in handbooks
b) the PF home plane is inside the Crystal (confirmed on panel and in handbooks)

That means there isn't a PF of Earth 616 or a PF of Earth 1254. There is only THE PF of the White Hot Room at the center of the Nexus of All Realities that sends parts/aspects of it, into the infinite number of universes that make up the multiverse.

Meaning the PF is multiversal (confirmed in a handbook) and all it's alternate universe showings count (both high and low). So it's at least capable of universe level destruction at a minimum. In fact some of the VERY RARE on panel universe level destruction feats not involving a plot device (HotI or UN) in Marvel are done by the PF and no other abstract or "God".

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by zopzop
@GalacticStorm, Galan, WWK

I can't comment on the ZH Parallax scans, I don't read much DC. I just thought he was basically Green Lantern Prime. But if GS is right and all he did was "apply pressure on a choke point" if you will, then his feat isn't impressive at all.

If Galan is right and he remade the entire DC multiverse using nothing but his own power, then he obviously soloes the whole crew.

Regarding the PF, I posted scans from Marvel in another thread stating :
a) a multiverse is a collection of 616 and all parallel universes (what if's, alternate earths, pocket dimensions, etc...) confirmed on panel and in handbooks
b) the M'krann Crystal exists on all planes of reality in the multiverse simultaneously (it's been called "the nexus of all realities"wink and this is confirmed on panel and in handbooks
b) the PF home plane is inside the Crystal (confirmed on panel and in handbooks)

That means there isn't a PF of Earth 616 or a PF of Earth 1254. There is only THE PF of the White Hot Room at the center of the Nexus of All Realities that sends parts/aspects of it, into the infinite number of universes that make up the multiverse.

Meaning the PF is multiversal (confirmed in a handbook) and all it's alternate universe showings count (both high and low). So it's at least capable of universe level destruction at a minimum. In fact some of the VERY RARE on panel universe level destruction feats not involving a plot device (HotI or UN) in Marvel are done by the PF and no other abstract or "God".

thumb up

Galan007
GS: No offense, but I'm not going to take the time to type up a long rebuttal to your last post. In the end I know you're more likely to downplay anything presented, then you are to acknowledge Phoenix possibly losing a battle. Plus, I already see this thread turning into a pissing-contest... And I really want no part of that.

So I bid thee good day. smile

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Galan007
GS: No offense, but I'm not going to take the time to type up a long rebuttal to your last post. In the end I know you're more likely to downplay anything presented, then you are to acknowledge Phoenix possibly losing a battle. Plus, I already see this thread turning into a pissing-contest... And I really want no part of that.

So I bid thee good day. smile

How so?

Thats a misinterpretation on your part Galan because i dont know what part of any of my posts ive directed at you can be misconstrued in such a manner.

You yourself said that you havent read the relevant issues for a while, so why dont you actually do that to see what im talking about.

Parallax never unleashed a creation destroying blast. He applied pressure to a crux point at the end of time thereby triggering a wave of entropy to sweep through creation.

Parallax never made creation from scratch, as stated he used chronal energies and therefore time manipulation to selectively bring back desirable bits of reality wiped out by entropy.

Instead of accusing me of being biased, why dont you go away and refresh your memory on the comics we're actually debating about erm

Galan007
Again, no offense intended, but I've stated my piece and I'll leave it at that. Don't feel like getting into a pages-long debate, tbh.

And yes, you are biased when it comes to Phoenix... But we all tend to have a bias toward a character in some way/shape/form, so it's not that big of a deal.

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Galan007
Again, no offense intended, but I've stated my piece and I'll leave it at that. Don't feel like getting into a pages-long debate, tbh.

And yes, you are biased when it comes to Phoenix... But we all tend to have a bias toward a character in some way/shape/form, so it's not that big of a deal.

You could argue that.

But i'd prefer to say that many people just under-estimate the character. All of my points i claim are stated on panel, no supposition on my part smile

As for the Parallax points, do have a read of the comic when you find the time and remember this thread wink

Galan007
Nah, I think that most people simply wouldn't want to admit they are biased when it comes to particular characters. /shrug

I might reread that series, but when I get around to it, it's doubtful that I'll remember this thread. stick out tongue

Uriel005
My vote is on Future Franklin Full potential. As a toddler hes creating universes and Galactus. This being with the majority of his power under self imposed blocks. I can't even begin to guess what full power would be.

Black bolt z
Anyone on team 2 can potentially solo.

Owen definitely solos.

Galan007
^ You honestly think current MM would solo? Honestly?

Black bolt z
Originally posted by Galan007
^ You honestly think current MM would solo? Honestly? AFAIK he hasn't gotten weaker.Gotten drained or something. But just been jobbing horribly.

But I may be wrong. I'm not the biggest cookie in the jar stick out tongue

Galan007
He certainly isn't a pushover (unless you're Sentry stick out tongue) but I still can't imagine him soloing. Just MO, though.

Black bolt z
Originally posted by Galan007
He certainly isn't a pushover (unless you're Sentry stick out tongue) but I still can't imagine him soloing. Just MO, though. I can see an all out MM soloing. But Owen doesn't exactly use his power to the fullest extent.

Prep-Man
Are we talking about current MM? Or Pre-retconned? Cause current isn't soling.

leonidas
Originally posted by Galan007
GS: No offense, but I'm not going to take the time to type up a long rebuttal to your last post. In the end I know you're more likely to downplay anything presented, then you are to acknowledge Phoenix possibly losing a battle. Plus, I already see this thread turning into a pissing-contest... And I really want no part of that.

So I bid thee good day. smile

boo!

fight! fight! fight!

big grin

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