Emma Frost vs. Charles Xavior

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McNasty996
This are current versions of the combatants. Battle takes place in Utopia with everyone in awe of what is happening before them. Emma is under the belief that Charles intends to mind wipe Scott in order to reform his personal X-men. Charles is under the impression that Emma has made Magneto catatonic for crimes previously committed. No PIS,CIS, or outside help.

P.S. If this has been done before can someone provide a link.

McNasty996
Bump

Lord_Talron
god forbid you use the search correctly

753
maybe xavior didnt show up? that search engine is deffective though

BobbyD
Wouldn't Emma just seduce him? shifty

Sr J-Bieb
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/search.php?action=showresults&q=title%3A%28Emma+Frost+vs+Xavier%29&showposts=0
I can see why nothing showed up though... you know, mispelling his name and all.

And Emma runs over and punches Charles in the face.

753
chuck takes a dump on her mind and then flushes it down the toilet

ExodusCloak
Telepathy won't even be an issue, Diamond Emma would proceed to punch his face off.

753
he rips her mind from her before she can change into it

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by 753
he rips her mind from her before she can change into it

lol, no friend. In a telepathic battle he will find it hard to take her down. If she goes to diamond form she wins this every single time.

753
^nah

he locks her diamond form like exodus did and they engage in telepathic battle from which he'll come out on top everytime

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by 753
^nah

he locks her diamond form like exodus did and they engage in telepathic battle from which he'll come out on top everytime

Except it was Emma who did that to Exodus and Xavier couldn't do that to Exodus as shown with what he did to Magneto and Omega Sentinel. Same writer, same book and only a few issues apart from each other. Emma smacks him around in diamond form every single time. And she'll take a very good chunk out of his 10 if she just used telepathy.

753
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Except it was Emma who did that to Exodus and Xavier couldn't do that to Exodus. Same writer, same book and only a few issues apart from each other. Emma smacks him around in diamond form every single time. And she'll take a very good chunk out of his 10 if she just used telepathy. lolwut? exodus and emma did it to each other and xavier engaged exodus in astral combat and came out on top while IIRC emma needed dust to do him in. there is no contest between who is the stronger telepath out of these 2, her diamond form wouldnt come into play while they are locked ona tp battle and thus she loses.

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by 753
lolwut? exodus and emma did it to each other and xavier engaged exodus in astral combat and came out on top while IIRC emma needed dust to do him in. there is no contest between who is the stronger telepath out of these 2, her diamond form wouldnt come into play while they are locked ona tp battle and thus she loses.

No, if your read the scans Emma was the one who engaged Exodus in astral combat. That's why he said it was a clever tactic by her.

Xavier was unable to do the same when he fought Exodus hence Magneto getting owned.

Also to add onto that. Exodus was not trying to kill him in that X-Men Legacy issue as stated numerous times by Bennet. Exodus was trying to coerce him into leading the Acolytes. All Xavier did was break out of Exodus's illusion loop which was mean to coerce.
I wouldn't use X-Men Legacy feats for Xavier if I were you. He just ended getting psychically pimp slapped by Exodus, Sinister, Emma and Ms. Sinister.

BTW Emma was also cited as a more powerful telepath then Exodus with him in the room by the very same writer and she blocked Xavier in WWH after his upgrade. So again he'd be hard pressed taking her down in pure TP. She'd smack him around every time in Diamond Form.

I give Xavier the slight win in pure TP on nostalgia and his status on Marvel Earth, she wins when it comes to consistency with feats though.

753
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
No, if your read the scans Emma was the one who engaged Exodus in astral combat. That's why he said it was a clever tactic by her.

Xavier was unable to do the same when he fought Exodus hence Magneto getting owned. what? chuck was already engaging exodus in astral combat when magneto came at him. the fact that he didnt shut exodus's tk down during that particular fight means what exactly, that he couldnt possibly do it to emma or exodus even though the arc made it clear that he was superior to exodus during their final exchanges?
wrong, by the end of their confrontation exodus claimed he would undo his restoration and destroy xavier's mind again and failed.

orly? only boobytraps worked against him, emma's and romulus. he expelled sinister from himself and tactically defeated mrs sinister


really? when was she referred to as stronger than exodus? but more importantly, when did she beat him on her own? when did she beat sinister on her own for that matter? yes, it's a simple stablished fact that chuck>emma and they both know it.

ExodusCloak
Exodus was not fighting him. That's what you don't seem to be getting. Exodus states it multiple times. It was a trip down memory lane. A psychic loop meant to get Charles to see the error in his ways and lead the Acolytes.

And yes there's no getting around that. Xavier could NOT and did NOT shut off Exodus's TK. Emma made sure ALL of Exodus's EXTRA powers were gone by removing her own.

Except you're using this fight to say Charles beat Exodus. He did not, you missed the entire premise of their encounter. He broke out of an illusion meant to coerce. And the fact regarding the aformentioned TK means that Exodus could have crushed his skull whenever he wanted to.



Stop pulling things out of context. I don't want to fight you but I will destroy what's left of your mind. He did not in the second issue he did not. He was asking Xavier to yield.

And lulz he actually says the exact OPPOSITE of what you're saying at the end.

Oh really? Boobytraps? Do you want me to pull out Silver Age feats of Xavier getting punked? So Emma blocking him in WWH? Yeah.



X-Men Annual #1 (Mike Carey). Return of Exodus annual. When did Xavier beat Exodus? He got and Jean were helpless in Bloodties. And they were not fighting in Legacy, it was a coercion tactic.

He got smacked around by Mr. Sinister.

Emma blocked Mr. Sinister and his other psychic cronies from half way across the world, while giving a O.N.E. Sentinel operative a nose bleed with no aid.

Originally posted by 753
yes, it's a simple stablished fact that chuck>emma and they both know it.

I said I'd give it to him based on nostalgia. In the MU they're rivals. So I don't see why you think he trounces her? If they encountered now given the context I have a feeling the writers would give her the win. That would ruin your day though.

Actually I hope Emma faces Loki in the X-Men: Serve and Protect issue...can't wait to see what happens there. shifty

ExodusCloak
In regards to nullfiying Exodus's extra powers:

Comparison

Charles
http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/8052/xmenlegacy210page5.th.jpg

Emma
http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/7564/036ra.th.jpg

In regards to your claim that Exodus was trying to kill Charles. False. Not only does Exodus mention this in the previous issue and mid-issue but he mentions it at the end of their encounter which Charles acknowledges here:

http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/2740/xmenlegacy210page18.th.jpg

Glorificus
If this was a pure TP battle on the astral plane, I'd side with Charles. He does have more powerful feats of using the minds of an entire planet's population as a weapon. He's done this at least twice IIRC.

Emma, is more cunning and sneaky with her TP, but there's no skill difference between them like with her and Rachel. Xavier is just as skilled, and has more years of experience.

Now if this isn't just a TP battle, then she simply turns to Diamond Form, and snaps his neck.

753
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Exodus was not fighting him. That's what you don't seem to be getting. Exodus states it multiple times. It was a trip down memory lane. A psychic loop meant to get Charles to see the error in his ways and lead the Acolytes.

And yes there's no getting around that. Xavier could NOT and did NOT shut off Exodus's TK. Emma made sure ALL of Exodus's EXTRA powers were gone by removing her own.

Except you're using this fight to say Charles beat Exodus. He did not, you missed the entire premise of their encounter. He broke out of an illusion meant to coerce. And the fact regarding the aformentioned TK means that Exodus could have crushed his skull whenever he wanted to.exodus last attack was meant to shatter xavier's mind and afterwards chuck comments on how it failed because he was no longer the same man because of the memory alterations

he did try to destroy what was left of his mind with his last attack and chuck makes it clear afterwards that it wouldnt work again and that if exodus tried it, chuck would destroy him. not to mention in a later story chuck hacked all the acolytes dreams, invaded their complex and schooled exodus again, story made it clear they were at his mercy

nice dodge, you were talking about the legacy run wanna start a lowballing contest? chuck's higher end feats punk hers

well, read what you will into it

through tp? when was this?
when the day comes that she defeats him in astral battle like chuck did when purging him from his body, i'll be more impressed


you wish. she iosnt as powerfull, never has been and whenever they face off, it's made clear he has the stonger mind, even when she wins through traps and such

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by 753
exodus last attack was meant to shatter xavier's mind and afterwards chuck comments on how it failed because he was no longer the same man because of the memory alterations

he did try to destroy what was left of his mind with his last attack and chuck makes it clear afterwards that it wouldnt work again and that if exodus tried it, chuck would destroy him. not to mention in a later story chuck hacked all the acolytes dreams, invaded their complex and schooled exodus again, story made it clear they were at his mercy

I'm going to do this line by line because you're ridiculous.
Your claim, that the last attack was meant to shatter Xavier's mind. Oh really show me. Please show me where Exodus in the fight claimed to do that. Show me where Exodus was motivated to destroy Xavier. The issue states the exact opposite.

What is Exodus doing? Psychic illusions.
http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/3595/xmenlegacy210page7.th.jpg


Is Exodus trying to destroy him here? Coerce him to use his powers against humans.

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/7175/xmenlegacy210page10.th.jpg


Oh and here's where you claim Exodus was trying to destroy his mind. What does he ask? Yield or what? He'll torture him with more illusions.

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/7175/xmenlegacy210page10.th.jpg


Oh and here's Exodus's reason. Not to fight to coerce. I'd also scan the last page of the previous issue for you but I'm lazy so have look. His motives was not to fight. As proved by this issue by not crushing Charles head telekinetically.
http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/8612/xmenlegacy210page16.th.jpg


Oh and in the later story you are refering to. Omega Sentinel switched off the Acolytes TP-blockers. However, you are wrong again. Him and Exodus did not engage in battle and he did not hack Exodus's dreams. So where is this schooled Exodus thing coming from?



WWH: X-Men Emma blocked him. Legacy he didn't even see Emma coming. You claim that he can only be beaten when he's snuck up on. That is not true. Jack of Diamonds anyone?

She is more consistent then him I give him the slight edge in TP because of his status nothing else. Emma punked Super Skrull telepaths 7 of them on Cerebra's designed to take on the X-Men. Charles gets taken down by ONE.




LOLOLOL, Charles did not purge him from his body. Read please before you post. Mr. Sinister kicked Charles ass on the astral plane in X-Men Legacy Sins of a father. Gambit and Sebastian Shaw destroyed Sinisters machine. Hence freeing Xavier. What books are you reading? Legacy is not a run you should be using to make a case for Charles.




She's been cited as his rival in power more then once and in the same Legacy issue where she has him rolling on the floor pleading. She has blocked him in WWH: X-Men.

You lowball Emma's telepathy for god knows what reason. She's his rival he'd be hardpressed to take her down. Your knowledge on Xavier is also lacking. I know what your previous user name is too. You're the same one who claimed Xavier was a saint, and that he was retconned into a douche. Only showing your lack of knowledge on the X-Men as he was always a douche.

Furthermore, Xavier and Emma have never faced off. The only thing you could even consider a "fight" would be when she kidnapped him in the UXM #129, when she blocked him in WWH: X-Men and when she had him rolling on the floor pleading in X-Men Legacy #215/#216.

So don't give that crap. I told you already I give him the slight win on nostalgia and his status in the MU. Other then that the writers themselves have her as his rival in power. He himself has called her an Omega Level Telepath and a Psi of the Highest order.
Plus in this thread she just punches his face off in Diamond Form every single time.

GalacticStorm
Its clear Xavier is the superior telepath, more powerful, more skilled. The point is stated many times by numerous sources, plus Xavier has far higher end feats.

This isnt even a debate. Emma doesnt start off in her diamond form therefore before she has a chance to, Xavier engages her in a tp battle and then finishes her off. Simple.

guy222
chuckster wins

753
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
I'm going to do this line by line because you're ridiculous.
Your claim, that the last attack was meant to shatter Xavier's mind. Oh really show me. Please show me where Exodus in the fight claimed to do that. Show me where Exodus was motivated to destroy Xavier. The issue states the exact opposite.

What is Exodus doing? Psychic illusions.
http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/3595/xmenlegacy210page7.th.jpg


Is Exodus trying to destroy him here? Coerce him to use his powers against humans.

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/7175/xmenlegacy210page10.th.jpg


Oh and here's where you claim Exodus was trying to destroy his mind. What does he ask? Yield or what? He'll torture him with more illusions.

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/7175/xmenlegacy210page10.th.jpg


Oh and here's Exodus's reason. Not to fight to coerce. I'd also scan the last page of the previous issue for you but I'm lazy so have look. His motives was not to fight. As proved by this issue by not crushing Charles head telekinetically.
http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/8612/xmenlegacy210page16.th.jpg


I took a while to respond to this because I wanted to re-read the books to make sure I wasn't missing anything and I had to download them.

Exodus says he'll destroy what's left of xavier's mind in the end XML 209 as they engage, not in XML 210 when they exchange the last attacks as I had thought, so I was mistaken on this particular point and concede on it, exodus primary motivation was changing chuck's mind. What remains is that a weakened X beat Exodus down to his knees on his own in a telepathy fight and once they were done, he plainly told Exodus that if he raised a hand against him again, he'd shut his powers off permanently with posthypnotic commands, which means he had already planted the ways to destroy him while they were fighting. A permanent power shut down is more impressive than emma frost distracting him so he couldnt use his tk while dust actually defeated him.


wrong. he sent them visions through their dreams and planted posthypnotic commands in their minds while they slept so he could make them sabotage the complex's defenses. it wasn't sentinel that turned them off, he planted false memories of them switching them on and later, when their minds were shield by tp blockers overseen by exodus himself, he triggered the commands with spoken words and convinced Amelia to stand down without resorting to his powers.

The only minds he didn't rig were those of exodus and amelia, but as the story indicates, only because he didn't want to. Exodus says to the acolytes that Xavier had done things to "our minds" not to "your minds" and although chuck later reveals he had not left traps within Exodus's mind, exodus himself apparently had no way of even knowing if he had as he presumed his mind had been rigged as well. It's reasonable to assume he had sent Exodus the dreams as all the dialogues indicated they all had dreamed them, including the words that come out of exodus's mouth. chuck didnt wire amelia either but she still got the dreams.

he did school them, showed he could come and go as he pleased, defeated them all tactically and convinced Exodus to lay down his arms with five minutes of conversation, effectively disbanding the acolytes.

Never claimed he cant possibly be defeated, just that emma and miss sinister needed sneak attacks and booby traps. Xavier's feat linking the minds of the skrull empire, gathering their thoughts and feelins and projecting them into galactus is far more impressivbe than Emma's skrull telepaths or her wading throught the residual thoughts rogue absorbed during the mumudrai affair. I don't even think they were superskrulls like the others, just plain skrull telepaths like those human telepaths shield uses.


now to repay your pedantism in kind:

pffftwahahahahahaha god what a ****ing joke. you are the one that needs to re-read it. Xavier duelled and purged sinister from his body and mind all on his own. the only thing destroying the machine acomplished was preventing sinister from reemerging into Cain's or Shaw's body. This is confirmed by the plot that explains what the machine actually does in XML 214 and through dialogue in xml 215 as Shaw explains to Gambit his plan to wreck the machine so sinister cant come back through himself or cain should xavier manage to drive MS out. When the machine is destroyed, Xavier says to Sinister "your hear that sinister? that was the sound of your exit strategy breaking into a million pieces ", then he proceeds to eliminate him with his own will and power. What comic did you read? lol

number of times, emma took sinister down? zero
you may claim exodus wasnt giving it his all, but sinister was fighting to erase chuck



everyone knows he's above her. she knows it, he knows it, he even commented on it when she booby trapped scott's mind to get him on the ropes, her only hope of doing so.

my previous user name?
hahahahaha, I never used any. couldn't check it before runnign your mouth could you? or maybe you meant I am a sock, prove that then, go ahead and report me, troll. I wont even get into the merits of your claim about him having always been a douche or not because

1: that was likely not me as you remember a different name and I don't recall that at all, and

2: moral judgements are entirely subjective, so your assessment that your opinion of his previous morality displays knowledge of the character is just another sad joke.

consider a face off what you will then. rolling on the floor huh? wonder if there was any context behind that and if the story makes it clear he is stronger than her through her own implicit admission when he tells her she can't win and she replies that she used scott's mind to lay traps.


We all know she isnt an omega level mutant, that was a writer **** up and one of a time missuse of an otherwise stablished term. maybe omega level telepath just refers to the strongest class of telepath, but we know that's wrong because legion and jean are telepaths who are actually omega level mutants and far above emma. She is strong, no doubt, but she is not chuck's rival, he'd win consistently against her.

Bentley
Emma wins, she stalls Charles tp goes diamond form and kicks his but.

Konton
Originally posted by 753
number of times, emma took sinister down? zero

I think that because we saw her shut down his powers, as well as screwing with several other high end telepaths (simultaneously!), from half way around the globe without cerebra... we probably should be able to draw conclusions from there.

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by 753
I took a while to respond to this because I wanted to re-read the books to make sure I wasn't missing anything and I had to download them.

Exodus says he'll destroy what's left of xavier's mind in the end XML 209 as they engage, not in XML 210 when they exchange the last attacks as I had thought, so I was mistaken on this particular point and concede on it, exodus primary motivation was changing chuck's mind. What remains is that a weakened X beat Exodus down to his knees on his own in a telepathy fight and once they were done, he plainly told Exodus that if he raised a hand against him again, he'd shut his powers off permanently with posthypnotic commands, which means he had already planted the ways to destroy him while they were fighting. A permanent power shut down is more impressive than emma frost distracting him so he couldnt use his tk while dust actually defeated him.

Xavier broke out of Exodus's psychic illusion, I repeat again that was not a telepathic fight as reiterated by Exodus in #209 and X-Men #210. An that was an empty threat that Charles didn't follow through with and also quite baseless considering the problems he's had with Exodus in the past. Meanwhile Emma did shut down Xavier's powers in X-Men Legacy 215/216.




I looked again, correct. He placed post-hypnotic triggers. 'xcept that doesn't mean he got past Exodus's psi-shielding of the Acolytes. He didn't assault them directly because Exodus was protecting them, he had to take them out by planting post-hypnotic triggers that could be activated by words.



He didn't rig Exodus's mind because he couldn't. There's no indicaiton that he could hence the post-hypnotic triggers, as even Emma was able to sniff Charles's tamperings in Scotts head. The reason why he didn't rig Voughts mind is their history together. He sent them visions, which I'm sure a Psi of Exodus's caliber is more then happy to accept out of curiousity and/or considering the offer he made to Charles the last time they met.



Emma has always been seen as Xavier's rival.

Those were Dreamers Skrulls built to take on the X-Men Telepaths that included Charles, Jean, Psylocke. BTW there were 8 billion Skrull minds, there were 8 billion minds in Rogue after the mumudrai affair.





Umm sorry but you're being ridiculous. The explanation of the machine is on the summary page of X-Men Legacy 214. Sinister was written into Charles and the others DNA the machine was activating/facilitating the transformation. The transformation wasn't complete yet because Charles's mind was still alive trying to hold off as best as he could (And Charles was doing pretty poorly up to the point of the machine being destroyed). You can also see that it wasn't completed yet because Charles body hadn't fully transformed. Also Sinister's exit strategy Charles was referring to was Nathanials "exit strategy" from beyond the grave. Not transferring himself into one of the others. Why would Sinister give a shit anyway if the DNA transformation in Charles was already completed? The machine broke the transformation cutting Sinster off hence Sinister's "Noooo". Charles just cleaned the mess.




Her reply was that it's "moot point" as they would not be fighting.

moot point

A debatable question, an issue open to argument; also, an irrelevant question, a matter of no importance. For example, Whether Shakespeare actually wrote the poem remains a moot point among critics , or It's a moot point whether the chicken or the egg came first . This term originated in British law where it described a point for discussion in a moot , or assembly, of law students. By the early 1700s it was being used more loosely in the present sense.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/moot+point




Except Carey even cites her as his rival in the re-cap page of the XL 216. Also he calls her a psi of the highest order under Claremonts pen. And he calls her an omega level telepath under Fractions pen.

Charles is not an Omega Level Mutant he's an Omega Level Telepath. So you're confusing the terms not Fraction. It's like Omega Level Fire powers the best of the best.

And in Wells New Mutants Emma kills Legion telepathically in the divergent timeline where the X-Men die and Magik has to come back and change the future. So clearly the writers view her as an Omega Level Telepath.
Cosmic being Phoenix's are another story.

I would give him the slight edge in a telepathic battle as I stated before but again based on nostalgia and his status. But I believe Emma can hold him off and then go diamond and squash his head with her diamond heel.

Also just like to show you this, you've probably already seen the scan of Emma being called possibly Xavier level in New Mutants. That was the first hint of her being called that. The second was when he did it by calling her a psi of the highest order.

Heck there was even this:

http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/589/25672492.jpg

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/9571/62891743.jpg

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/6677/33077087.jpg



If you're wondering how it ends, well Emma and Xavier are fighting each other off panel. While the other X-Men get trounced by the brotherhood until the mutant they're searching for blows up in energy and stops the fight.

-Pr-
we already have one of these. closing. please use the search/directory in future.

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